Suggestions for good leather shoe?

[arengarajsug88]

Hello BH experts,

I am planning to buy a good leather dress shoe with wingtip style with brogue patterning. Color preference is brown or tan. Plan is to use it 1-2 days per work week, and possibly extend shoe's longevity. I am willing to go upto $200 but shoe must have a goodyear welt construction. Should have leather upper and leather insole. Outsole preference also is leather but can go for a combination stacked leather and rubber outsole as well. I currently have a Johnston & Murphy wingtip black leather shoe that is not a good year welt, so looking to add goodyear welt leather shoe to my collection. Alden and Allen Edmonds seem to be out of my budget, and J&M does not seem to have a lot of goodyear welted shoes. I live in the Naperville, Illinois area.

Any recommendations for shoe brands or stores?

Thanks.

[simplesimon]

Hello BH experts,

I am planning to buy a good leather dress shoe with wingtip style with brogue patterning. Color preference is brown or tan. Plan is to use it 1-2 days per work week, and possibly extend shoe's longevity. I am willing to go upto $200 but shoe must have a goodyear welt construction. Should have leather upper and leather insole. Outsole preference also is leather but can go for a combination stacked leather and rubber outsole as well. I currently have a Johnston & Murphy wingtip black leather shoe that is not a good year welt, so looking to add goodyear welt leather shoe to my collection. Alden and Allen Edmonds seem to be out of my budget, and J&M does not seem to have a lot of goodyear welted shoes. I live in the Naperville, Illinois area.

Any recommendations for shoe brands or stores?

Thanks.

If you can wait Allen Edmonds will run its annual sale around Columbus Day. They also sell factory seconds if I recall correctly. They're based out of Port Washington, WI if you're interested in doing the drive to visit the factory for a deal.

[DanMahowny]

Allen Edmonds, for sure. Buy their factory seconds. It's like stealing.

[arengarajsug88]

Thank you both!

[aude]

You can find Allen Edmond at Nordstrom Rack in the Chicago area, often under $200.

[ImaBeginner]

Allen Edmunds are ~1/2 off at the factory store for “seconds.”
I can find absolutely no issue on mine. They are also nearly as comfortable as my non-dress shoes.

[mbnc]

Seconding AE seconds (no pun intended). Don't pay list price - they run sales a few times a year, so it's easy enough to catch one if you're watching. I have five pairs of AE, some were first-rate and some were seconds. Just the slightest ding anywhere on the shoe will make them downgrade it. In most cases, even if you can see why it's a second, it won't make a difference once you've worn it a couple of times.

I did return a brown pair one time because the stain was really streaky on one of the shoes (ordered online). I don't know if polish would have covered it up - it might have, but I was more comfortable just getting another pair instead. That was the outlier in my experience. If you go to the outlet store and look at them for yourself, you can try and see why they aren't charging full price - sometimes you can't even figure out what's wrong with them. If the size and color you want are at another store, you can call them and ask them to describe any issues with the shoe before placing the order. They keep a listing at shoebank.com if you have a particular one in mind.

Oh, and they're incredible shoes. The footbed molds to your foot, so they're very comfortable, and they last for years. You can get them recrafted when the heels and soles wear out, then they'll last for a few more years. I've heard you can get them rebuilt 4 or 5 times before the uppers finally wear out, but I haven't gotten that far yet with any of my pairs.

[banhbao]

I'm a fan of Florsheim. There are a lot of different style options, and you'll find a ton of brogue wingtips. (You can try them on at Jos A. Bank, but check their website price as they offer free shipping and free returns.)

[Swansea]

I have several pairs of AE. They last forever and can be recrafted. They are the only dress shoe my EEE feet are comfortable in.

[02nz]

I find most Ecco shoes (both dress and casual) very comfortable. Amazon has frequent sales.

[coupleofcents]

check out https://www.jackerwin.com/ or https://thursdayboots.com/collections/m ... es-wingtip

These are both mfg to consumer type companies. Jack Erwin I think is Blake stitched. Thursday shoes (not only boots) are Goodyear Welt. Blake Stitch is good too. Both do free returns.

[runner3081]

I like Bostonian, personally. But stay away from their lower-end junk.

[arengarajsug88]

Thank you everyone for great suggestions!

I really liked Thursday Boots - just curious if is it really a good brand, and on par with Allen Edmonds? Looks like they use full-grain leather and goodyear welt construction on their leather shoes.

Some questions:

1. Is it any good if these leather shoes have TPU studs on the out-sole? (Leather studded TPU outsoles from Thursday shoes). Are they on-par or better than the dainite studs on the leather shoes? i've had shoes with all-leather in-sole and upper, but rubber out-sole, which literally worn out less than a week after I purchased them new. So, is having a dainite out-sole better than leather sole or a full leather out-sole better or a combination leather and rubber sole is best?

2. Should the heel be made of leather too, while purchasing leather shoe?

3. Any idea about DSW shoes? Are they a good brand, and do they sell good leather shoes?

[angelescrest]

Yes, definitely Allen Edmonds seconds. Go right now to shoebank.com, and search the inventory. Then call the outlet store that has that shoe, and place an order. You won’t find a better quality hand crafted shoe for the money.

Now as far as which model to get...well, that’s another matter entirely.

[angelescrest]

3. Any idea about DSW shoes? Are they a good brand, and do they sell good leather shoes?

DSW is a retailer, they don’t make shoes.

[Mickey7]

If you are close to an AE store go there and look at the styles and see which ones that you like. Try them on at the store. Because of their use of differing "last" welt construction, some feel better on your feet than others. Now having properly researched the item follow the advice of others and look at heir "seconds" on their website. You will directed to their shoe bank to see if it is available. If not try to hold off until their next sale.

As per your criteria of leather shoe with a goodyear welt, the $200 price might be somewhat limiting in today's market. Btw when you get on their site do not immediately look at the Strands or Parks as you will see these shoes are definitely out of the range you described. Remember for now you are looking at their "seconds". Be cautious of other sites that they meet your needs, for the most part they will not. Johnston and Murphy make a good shoe, but you seem to want the next level. That is Allen Edmonds.

In full disclosure, I really am somewhat embarrassed at the number of Allen Edmonds that I have so I am somewhat biased.

[Young Boglehead]

Go buy some brand new Allen Edmonds on ebay, there's plenty there, many under 200. Great shoes and I don't think you'll get better quality for that price.

[Big Dog]

Allen Edmonds, for sure. Buy their factory seconds. It's like stealing.

A no-brainer.

[Sic Vis Pacem]

I'll add to the chorus on Allen Edmonds. Note that they no longer sell factory seconds year-round; they now have intermittent sales. https://www.allenedmonds.com/2019-facto ... -page.html. If you sign up for their mailing list they are good about letting you know when the factory seconds are available.

They do offer clearance on the first run shoes, where you can find some pretty great deals if you are patient. I've picked up a few pairs that are great. https://www.allenedmonds.com/outlet/clearance/shoes/

The fit on these shoes vary widely by last. I highly recommend trying on a few and once you find a shoe you like the fit on, figure out the last and then search from there. [Edit] I realize this was discussed above. Couldn't agree more.

[ronno2018]

No idea but I loved this guys youtube channel I saw the other day -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f0VkmdAKMQ

I am a big fan of allbirds.com but they are wool not leather (and very casual looking)!

[SemperFi79]

Hello BH experts,

I am planning to buy a good leather dress shoe with wingtip style with brogue patterning. Color preference is brown or tan. Plan is to use it 1-2 days per work week, and possibly extend shoe's longevity. I am willing to go upto $200 but shoe must have a goodyear welt construction. Should have leather upper and leather insole. Outsole preference also is leather but can go for a combination stacked leather and rubber outsole as well. I currently have a Johnston & Murphy wingtip black leather shoe that is not a good year welt, so looking to add goodyear welt leather shoe to my collection. Alden and Allen Edmonds seem to be out of my budget, and J&M does not seem to have a lot of goodyear welted shoes. I live in the Naperville, Illinois area.

Any recommendations for shoe brands or stores?

Thanks.

Samuel Hubbard is a very nice and comfortable shoe.

[TheOscarGuy]

I like Bostonian, personally. But stay away from their lower-end junk.

I would second this. They are extremely comfortable and my current shoe is 8 years old still going strong. I had a problem with mine after a year of usage, told their customer service and they let me choose anything I wanted from their website as an exchange!

[coupleofcents]

Thank you everyone for great suggestions!

I really liked Thursday Boots - just curious if is it really a good brand, and on par with Allen Edmonds? Looks like they use full-grain leather and goodyear welt construction on their leather shoes.

Some questions:

1. Is it any good if these leather shoes have TPU studs on the out-sole? (Leather studded TPU outsoles from Thursday shoes). Are they on-par or better than the dainite studs on the leather shoes? i've had shoes with all-leather in-sole and upper, but rubber out-sole, which literally worn out less than a week after I purchased them new. So, is having a dainite out-sole better than leather sole or a full leather out-sole better or a combination leather and rubber sole is best?

2. Should the heel be made of leather too, while purchasing leather shoe?

3. Any idea about DSW shoes? Are they a good brand, and do they sell good leather shoes?

1. Thursday Boots are not on par with AE. I made the recommendation because of your price point. If you are willing to be patient and go the AE seconds route (I got a AE seconds for $177.00 a few years ago) then you will end up with a higher quality shoe... better leather, higher finish etc.) That being said Thursday are a good mid tier option I think. Don't know about Dainite vs TPU outsoles to be honest.

2. I think shoe nobs want only leather/stacked leather etc. I'm not sure if having a full leather vs partial leather makes a difference for cobblers to redo the soles heel.

3. DSW has an Italian house brand, Mercanti Fiorentini that is decent. They will certainly be glued soles, not Goodyear welt.

All the shoes in my collection are below $200 except the one pair of black oxfords 2nds I have from AE. I find brands like Florsheim, Mercanti, Johnston Murphy, Thursdays, Banana Republic all work fine if you take care of them. Always put shoe trees back in them when you come home from work, polish and condition them at least twice a year, even these mid tier brands. Many of my shoes I have had are 5 years and still going strong. Make sure you alternate your pairs each day to give them some rest. I typically have 3 shoe rotation for work for spring/summer and 3 shoes for fall/winter.

[arengarajsug88]

Thank you everyone for great suggestions!

I really liked Thursday Boots - just curious if is it really a good brand, and on par with Allen Edmonds? Looks like they use full-grain leather and goodyear welt construction on their leather shoes.

Some questions:

1. Is it any good if these leather shoes have TPU studs on the out-sole? (Leather studded TPU outsoles from Thursday shoes). Are they on-par or better than the dainite studs on the leather shoes? i've had shoes with all-leather in-sole and upper, but rubber out-sole, which literally worn out less than a week after I purchased them new. So, is having a dainite out-sole better than leather sole or a full leather out-sole better or a combination leather and rubber sole is best?

2. Should the heel be made of leather too, while purchasing leather shoe?

3. Any idea about DSW shoes? Are they a good brand, and do they sell good leather shoes?

1. Thursday Boots are not on par with AE. I made the recommendation because of your price point. If you are willing to be patient and go the AE seconds route (I got a AE seconds for $177.00 a few years ago) then you will end up with a higher quality shoe... better leather, higher finish etc.) That being said Thursday are a good mid tier option I think. Don't know about Dainite vs TPU outsoles to be honest.

2. I think shoe nobs want only leather/stacked leather etc. I'm not sure if having a full leather vs partial leather makes a difference for cobblers to redo the soles heel.

3. DSW has an Italian house brand, Mercanti Fiorentini that is decent. They will certainly be glued soles, not Goodyear welt.

All the shoes in my collection are below $200 except the one pair of black oxfords 2nds I have from AE. I find brands like Florsheim, Mercanti, Johnston Murphy, Thursdays, Banana Republic all work fine if you take care of them. Always put shoe trees back in them when you come home from work, polish and condition them at least twice a year, even these mid tier brands. Many of my shoes I have had are 5 years and still going strong. Make sure you alternate your pairs each day to give them some rest. I typically have 3 shoe rotation for work for spring/summer and 3 shoes for fall/winter.

Thank you for the details! Yes, I do have cedar shoe tree and put my J&M shoes right back in my shoe tree once back from work. I'll most likely go with the AE seconds!

On a side note, I would love to hear what 3 pairs of shoes you have for fall/winter? I am from California and recently moved to Chicago area so really have no idea which shoes to buy for the winter / cold and rainy weather here. I do have good pairs of boots, but looking also for economical but reliable shoes that I can wear for work and alternate between my leather dress shoes?

[coupleofcents]

Well, I used to live in LA but now I'm in Atlanta. So I may not be the most qualified since Atlanta winters will be mild compared to Chicago. Part of my reason for switching out shoes in Fall/Winter is for variety sake, but also for for functionality.

So for Fall/Winter I have a Floresheim Cap Toe, thicker leather, rubber on soles for traction. I have a boot like Thursdays Captain, and then I actually have a suede monk strap similar to https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content from Banana Republic for dry/mild days. A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

Nordstrom has some good house lines. Check out https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/nordstrom- ... h9ILo5LtqE

I think for Chicago, you could go with your Johnston Murphy, AE 2nds brogue, and then add a boot. AE or Thursdays for more refined, or something more rugged like Chippewa https://www.amazon.com/Chippewa-20065-H ... uage=en_US or Redwing Iron Rangers https://www.amazon.com/Red-Wing-Heritag ... way&sr=8-2

I don't have either of these boots but are well reviewed and on my wish list.


In Spring, summer, just swap the boot for a loafer or suede derby like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

[Nearly A Moose]

Perhaps someone has already said this, but if you can wait, look for an Allen Edmonds factory seconds sale. Big discount for minor blemishes that either you won’t notice or that will look perfectly normal after a month of wear. Go to a store to get fitted in your correct size, because I think they’re final sale. They also run sales periodically for their regular shoes, and they show up in Nordstrom’s semi annual sale as well. I’m a huge fan of AEs, and I basically don’t buy anything else. If you will be walking a lot, get the rubber sole for longevity. Remember, you can have them refracted for about $100 once they start wearing out, which is basically giving you a new shoe. So they’re very cost effective in the long run. I have a pair that’s more than 20 years old. Big fan.

[Carter3]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

[smectym]

Surprised no one has mentioned Mephisto. I have several pair that have been through many treks since, say 2013 and the shoes are still going strong (even if in a few cases with resoleing, which runs about $50-$70). The main bullet point for Mephisto is comfort. You can walk around the city, New York or Paris, for hours, and forget you’re not wearing running shoes. I just did a similar stroll in SF. It’s pretty remarkable.

I have always bought them on Amazon and had good experience with sizing and the shoe meeting expectations. And you can return free if there’s a misfire.

[edge]

Florsheim used to make incredible shoes but those days are long gone.

I'm a fan of Florsheim. There are a lot of different style options, and you'll find a ton of brogue wingtips. (You can try them on at Jos A. Bank, but check their website price as they offer free shipping and free returns.)

[dmk395]

Becket simonon
You'll wait 8 weeks but they make some solid shoes

[coupleofcents]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

It can be hit or miss with 2nds. I have a local store nearby so returns are easy.

OP, check out https://dappered.com/2019/10/allen-edmo ... fall-2019/
Bunch of AE models new at $245.00.

[stoptothink]

A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

I actually have these exact shoes, in both brown and black. I paid ~$80, for both pairs combined at a BR outlet maybe 3yrs ago. If those are considered "good" leather shoes (based on the $178 retail price) then I'll stick to the budget brands. Not that I am dissatisfied (with what I paid); they look nice, but are uncomfortable and may be the least durable shoes I can remember owning. I also have Kenneth Cole and Clark's chukkas, that I actually got for cheaper (Ross), and they are both about a decade old (with easily 3x more wears) and have held up way better.

Nordstrom rack clearance (online) + email coupon codes + rakutan(ebates); you should have no problem finding (what I consider) really nice shoes for <$100.

[getthatmarshmallow]

A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

I actually have these exact shoes, in both brown and black. I paid ~$80, for both pairs combined at a BR outlet maybe 3yrs ago. If those are considered "good" leather shoes (based on the $178 retail price) then I'll stick to the budget brands. Not that I am dissatisfied (with what I paid); they look nice, but are uncomfortable and may be the least durable shoes I can remember owning. I also have Kenneth Cole and Clark's chukkas, that I actually got for cheaper (Ross), and they are both about a decade old (with easily 3x more wears) and have held up way better.

Nordstrom rack clearance (online) + email coupon codes + rakutan(ebates); you should have no problem finding (what I consider) really nice shoes for <$100.

Agreed, but worth pointing out that the BR outlet sells lower quality merchandise than you would get finding regular BR merch on sale. It's practically a different brand.

[arengarajsug88]

Well, I used to live in LA but now I'm in Atlanta. So I may not be the most qualified since Atlanta winters will be mild compared to Chicago. Part of my reason for switching out shoes in Fall/Winter is for variety sake, but also for for functionality.

So for Fall/Winter I have a Floresheim Cap Toe, thicker leather, rubber on soles for traction. I have a boot like Thursdays Captain, and then I actually have a suede monk strap similar to https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content from Banana Republic for dry/mild days. A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

Nordstrom has some good house lines. Check out https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/nordstrom- ... h9ILo5LtqE

I think for Chicago, you could go with your Johnston Murphy, AE 2nds brogue, and then add a boot. AE or Thursdays for more refined, or something more rugged like Chippewa https://www.amazon.com/Chippewa-20065-H ... uage=en_US or Redwing Iron Rangers https://www.amazon.com/Red-Wing-Heritag ... way&sr=8-2

I don't have either of these boots but are well reviewed and on my wish list.


In Spring, summer, just swap the boot for a loafer or suede derby like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

Thank you! those were helpful.

[arengarajsug88]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

I agree! I have seen some good new AE Wingtip leather shoes under $200, and I doubt AE seconds would be any cheaper. I looked at AE seconds website, and while I was impressed, the prices do not seem to be way lesser than the new ones.

[arengarajsug88]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

It can be hit or miss with 2nds. I have a local store nearby so returns are easy.

OP, check out https://dappered.com/2019/10/allen-edmo ... fall-2019/
Bunch of AE models new at $245.00.

Nice link! thank you!

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

Meermin is probably the best bang for your buck out there. Best combination of style and quality (all-leather components, stacked leather heels and full leather midsoles) w/Goodyear Welt for under $200.

Also a note on shoe tress - you only need 1 set of Cedar shoe trees, the others can be the much cheaper plastic versions. Put the cedar shoe trees in the shoes you wore that day (the cedar helps absorb moisture from wear) and use cheaper plastic trees for the rest of the shoes (to keep shape).

[sid hartha]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

I second this advice on the seconds! I have purchased 3 seconds for $200 ea. Two of them are fine with barely noticeable defects but the third has really noticeable defects and even worse does not fit quit as snag as it should and slips a little. I think it is better to wait for the big sales and pick up the regular shoes for $245 or so. I think the extra money is worth it in this case. They are going to last a long time and can be refurbished so an extra $45 seems fine to me.

[coupleofcents]

A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

I actually have these exact shoes, in both brown and black. I paid ~$80, for both pairs combined at a BR outlet maybe 3yrs ago. If those are considered "good" leather shoes (based on the $178 retail price) then I'll stick to the budget brands. Not that I am dissatisfied (with what I paid); they look nice, but are uncomfortable and may be the least durable shoes I can remember owning. I also have Kenneth Cole and Clark's chukkas, that I actually got for cheaper (Ross), and they are both about a decade old (with easily 3x more wears) and have held up way better.

Nordstrom rack clearance (online) + email coupon codes + rakutan(ebates); you should have no problem finding (what I consider) really nice shoes for <$100.

Agreed, but worth pointing out that the BR outlet sells lower quality merchandise than you would get finding regular BR merch on sale. It's practically a different brand.

Not sure if there is a difference between Outlet and BR store. Obviously, don't pay 178 for this shoe. Should be under $100 when on sale. Here is a review of this shoe https://dappered.com/2019/09/in-review- ... ukka-boot/

Also, blogger mentions BR shoes used to be terrible but in the last few years have stepped it up. My BR shoes were bought within the last couple of years.

[nimo956]

I've had good experiences finding quality shoes at this site:

https://www.skoaktiebolaget.com/

They are very helpful in answering questions.

[BackOfTheNet]

If you want to get really crazy you can get Allen Edmonds "3rds" on eBay for dirt cheap. Check out the seller "dabondo1". That seller has an agreement with AE and sells rejects at a deep discount. The nice thing is that you can see pictures of the actual shoe you will be buying and can determine if you care about the flaw.

The seller will take 60% of the listed price as an offer.

[stoptothink]

A chukka boot would be good like https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/p ... ge-content

I actually have these exact shoes, in both brown and black. I paid ~$80, for both pairs combined at a BR outlet maybe 3yrs ago. If those are considered "good" leather shoes (based on the $178 retail price) then I'll stick to the budget brands. Not that I am dissatisfied (with what I paid); they look nice, but are uncomfortable and may be the least durable shoes I can remember owning. I also have Kenneth Cole and Clark's chukkas, that I actually got for cheaper (Ross), and they are both about a decade old (with easily 3x more wears) and have held up way better.

Nordstrom rack clearance (online) + email coupon codes + rakutan(ebates); you should have no problem finding (what I consider) really nice shoes for <$100.

Agreed, but worth pointing out that the BR outlet sells lower quality merchandise than you would get finding regular BR merch on sale. It's practically a different brand.

Not sure if there is a difference between Outlet and BR store. Obviously, don't pay 178 for this shoe. Should be under $100 when on sale. Here is a review of this shoe https://dappered.com/2019/09/in-review- ... ukka-boot/

Also, blogger mentions BR shoes used to be terrible but in the last few years have stepped it up. My BR shoes were bought within the last couple of years.

I'm sure the BR outlet clothing is different, but the shoes? My brown and black chukkas look identical and they are 100% full grain leather uppers (not suede like the ones you linked). I distinctly remember them having a ~$180 tag on the box, but all shoes were 50% off, plus we had an ebates (rakutan) online coupon code on our phone, and got another 20% off for using the Old navy credit card...~$40 a pair.

[Carter3]

I say AE as well but I would not do the factory seconds.

Full disclaimer, I have bought numerous Allen edmonds both factory seconds and non. The problem with the seconds is that you are still using good money to pay for them and they are both cheap. In addition you never know what you are going to get. I have had some that we're hard to tell what the defect was and others that were very obvious. When obvious you can't simply return them without paying the restocking fee.

The regular shoes in the store go on sale all of the time...Parks rarely. Often times the sale makes the regular shoes cheaper than the seconds.

Also, get to know the sales agents in the store. Even though they are not supposed to, they tell regular customers when the best sales are coming. On two occasions my sales rep said hey don't buy these today, the sell starts tomorrow and I will hold these and complete the purchase with you over the phone tomorrow.

It can be hit or miss with 2nds. I have a local store nearby so returns are easy.

OP, check out https://dappered.com/2019/10/allen-edmo ... fall-2019/
Bunch of AE models new at $245.00.

I have a store right near my home as well, however you still have to pay the restock fee when you buy a second

[FoolStreet]

Seconding AE seconds (no pun intended). Don't pay list price - they run sales a few times a year, so it's easy enough to catch one if you're watching. I have five pairs of AE, some were first-rate and some were seconds. Just the slightest ding anywhere on the shoe will make them downgrade it. In most cases, even if you can see why it's a second, it won't make a difference once you've worn it a couple of times.

I did return a brown pair one time because the stain was really streaky on one of the shoes (ordered online). I don't know if polish would have covered it up - it might have, but I was more comfortable just getting another pair instead. That was the outlier in my experience. If you go to the outlet store and look at them for yourself, you can try and see why they aren't charging full price - sometimes you can't even figure out what's wrong with them. If the size and color you want are at another store, you can call them and ask them to describe any issues with the shoe before placing the order. They keep a listing at shoebank.com if you have a particular one in mind.

Oh, and they're incredible shoes. The footbed molds to your foot, so they're very comfortable, and they last for years. You can get them recrafted when the heels and soles wear out, then they'll last for a few more years. I've heard you can get them rebuilt 4 or 5 times before the uppers finally wear out, but I haven't gotten that far yet with any of my pairs.

Thank you very much for the shoebank.com advice. Extra 20% off right now. Great selection and great prices! I just bought a pair listing at 425 for sub-200.