Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

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dm200
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by dm200 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:29 am

I was the "Poster Child" as a non-athletic youth.

Later in life (as I approached 40) I began to jog and actually ran a 10k in about an hour.

Looking back, I believe my aversion was being both ill-coordinated and not physically strong - and "embarrassment" to a degree.

One "key" to my, later in life, becoming physically active (and actually surpassing lots of men my age) was to focus on just what I could and could not accomplish - and logging the exercises I did, number of laps or miles, timing of what I did, etc. I was, and still am, not able at all to sense my own degree of exercise/fatigue. That is where timing, counting, using a heart rate monitor, etc. helped a lot.

For me, as well, as a youth - "competition" was not a motivator (as it is for some), but much more as an inhibitor to being motivated.

Bronko
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Bronko » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:45 am

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:55 pm
hdas wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:47 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:37 am
There is a world of variation in “martial arts”, ranging from horrible to mediocre at best to very good.

Try to find an authentic, traditional teacher. That’s what made me catch the bug anyway. I’ve lost significant weight and even more fat. With just a good Kung Fu school, you don’t need any other activity.
Kung Fu is a choreography, utterly useless in the real world. Sorry to be so blunt. Cheers :greedy
My neighbor, whose 13yr old son is about to get a 3rd degree black belt, regularly comments that he'd bet on my 7yr old daughter (who takes jiu jitsu) against his son in a fight.
1 vs 1, especially if there are rules, I think Jiu Jitsu is tough to beat.

No rules and multiple opponents makes it less effective.
Jiu jitsu as it is conventionally taught today (sport techniques, solely grappling, which my daughter does) has little relevance to real world combat. It is only effective in that context when combined with other techniques (specifically, the ability to take someone down). That being said, I'd pay to see the reaction if you walked into your local combat sports training center and stated that kung fu was more effective.

If there is a single thing that the earliest MMA competitions taught, it's that traditional Asian martial arts stand no chance against the less beautiful but more brutal combat arts (ie. wrestling, muay thai, boxing, classical BJJ). To build confidence, develop discipline, and improve fitness; sure.

Sorry for the tangent.
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
Never let a little bit of money get in the way of a real good time.

Boulder92
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Boulder92 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:04 pm

The simple fact you are paying attention and caring will most likely mean it will work out in the long term. I agree with the modeling the behaviors as much as possible, martial arts suggestions and also with weight lifting being safe for that age, much can be done with just simple body weight exercises as well so seek out some startup instruction. Mountain bike youth groups tend to be all inclusive now in many areas but that might not be popular yet where you live or at that age. Just keep supporting different activities and eventually something will stick.
I did want to throw out two other ideas not yet mentioned. These are a little out there but have helped us who are in a similar situation, especially regarding appetite.
1) Make sure your kid is properly hydrated. Many people are chronically dehydrated and confuse thirst with hunger, especially at a young age. We started having one of our daughters drink a large glass of water right before dinner and this has helped cut down dramatically on request for seconds. It also can help mood. If we do not pay attention to hydration she will go a couple days without drinking any fluids.
2) About a year ago I heard a podcast with the top female ultrarunner in the world, she has won just about everything, and she described that when she was really young she was not that into exercise so her Dad created an exercise based allowance system. It was optional, no pressure but motivated her to run around the block and she became comfortable over time with being uncomfortable. I started doing this with my kids last year and going to the nearby pool and swim laps for an hour for a modest allowance. We did the same for biking the mile loop around a park near our home. After about 6 months I dropped the financial incentives and we now just roll up to the park or pool and I just tell them "ok, today do x amount of laps". Like I said this is a far out there idea and I know I will probably take some criticism but it got us well over the hump. At least once a week now (and now I am not paying them) a parent will come over to me at the pool and ask how I get them to swim that many laps and I am too embarrassed to tell. This idea may only work too if the kid is not spoiled at all. Our kids were very motivated to earn some money through exercise so they could go buy themselves things we were not. I bet you could combine this with use of a tracking device, ex fitbit, but we are not too crazy about giving our kids devices.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by barnaclebob » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:45 pm

Just thought of an idea that hasn't been suggested I think:

How about a membership to a rock climbing gym if you have one nearby. Its extremely safe and nobody starts out being good at it so he will probably quickly be able to climb harder than many adults in the gym.

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hdas
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by hdas » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 pm
If you haven’t met a real Kung Fu master then, which, since we are being blunt, makes me question your experience in this area. They are few and far between. But if you go to tournaments you will likely run into them.

If you have watched some of the very old Jackie Chan or Shaw Brothers movies, that gives you a choreographed glimpse into real Kung Fu.

But the choreography and learning of forms is just one aspect of training. You also have to understand the application of the moves in the forms and train the moves themselves. So you want to find a school that doesn’t just teach forms, but teaches the applications and drills.
I haven't seen Unicorns either. More seriously, we have had the testing ground for all this speculation, and in the last 25 years not a single Kung Fu practitioner has transitioned succesfully in MMA. Furthermore, there are tons of videos of "challenges" of said Masters against an MMA or Muay Thai guys, and the outcome is embarrassing for the Kung Fu ppl.

I'm sorry you wasted your time with that "martial art", it has happened to many people, I dont' think its ever late to switch. Cheers :greedy
"whenever there is a randomized way of doing something, then there is a nonrandomized way that delivers better performance but requires more thought" ET Jaynes

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hdas
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by hdas » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:03 pm

usagi wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:11 am
hdas wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:47 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:37 am
There is a world of variation in “martial arts”, ranging from horrible to mediocre at best to very good.

Try to find an authentic, traditional teacher. That’s what made me catch the bug anyway. I’ve lost significant weight and even more fat. With just a good Kung Fu school, you don’t need any other activity.
Kung Fu is a choreography, utterly useless in the real world. Sorry to be so blunt. Cheers :greedy
What does effectiveness have to do with the topic which is weight loss? The thing about traditional Gung-fu or other traditional martial arts is the esoteric aspects (even the woo) can be captivating and often keeps cerebral types interested. A lot in various types of Kung-fu is deliberately not efficient as it is there to develop the overall body.

I doubt some overweight kid is going to be interested in having some hairy guy mounting him between his legs, making him smell his armpit, and working to get behind him or "seduce him" (relax folks it is an old timey mixed martial arts term where you leave a gap in your defense with the hope as your opponent move to exploit it you can counter as he begins his movement, essentially a sacrifice). It may work fine, but some folks would simply rather die with dignity than play the sweaty ground game which often is simply a smelly chess match.

By the way I don't disagree with you overall assessment as much as I question you overall comment. If the goal is to hold a youth's attention and provide him with an interesting life long form of exercise then Kung-fu is an excellent choice. If the goal is self defense or to participate in MMA, then it is likely suicide (making an exception here for styles like Pak Mei, but those folks are crazy with the conditioning and hard contact sparring they would likely embrace rolling if they thought it would hurt more).

NanaKorobiYaOki
For the same reason that if you want to read/learn something interesting, say in medicine you don't jump into Chiropractic or Exorcism. You go and learn something that has substance behind. Cheers :greedy
"whenever there is a randomized way of doing something, then there is a nonrandomized way that delivers better performance but requires more thought" ET Jaynes

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veindoc
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by veindoc » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:33 pm

Boulder92 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:04 pm

1) Make sure your kid is properly hydrated. Many people are chronically dehydrated and confuse thirst with hunger, especially at a young age. We started having one of our daughters drink a large glass of water right before dinner and this has helped cut down dramatically on request for seconds. It also can help mood. If we do not pay attention to hydration she will go a couple days without drinking any fluids.
2) About a year ago I heard a podcast with the top female ultrarunner in the world, she has won just about everything, and she described that when she was really young she was not that into exercise so her Dad created an exercise based allowance system. It was optional, no pressure but motivated her to run around the block and she became comfortable over time with being uncomfortable. I started doing this with my kids last year and going to the nearby pool and swim laps for an hour for a modest allowance. We did the same for biking the mile loop around a park near our home. After about 6 months I dropped the financial incentives and we now just roll up to the park or pool and I just tell them "ok, today do x amount of laps". Like I said this is a far out there idea and I know I will probably take some criticism but it got us well over the hump. At least once a week now (and now I am not paying them) a parent will come over to me at the pool and ask how I get them to swim that many laps and I am too embarrassed to tell. This idea may only work too if the kid is not spoiled at all. Our kids were very motivated to earn some money through exercise so they could go buy themselves things we were not. I bet you could combine this with use of a tracking device, ex fitbit, but we are not too crazy about giving our kids devices.
Good points. I know for me I have confused hunger for thirst. Point#2: I just finished a book early this summer called the opposite of spoiled and instituted an allowance for my kids. I won’t buy them anything anymore. Since he is now responsible for his legos and art supplies, that might resonate with him. Thanks!

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veindoc
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by veindoc » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:41 pm

dm200 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:29 am
I was the "Poster Child" as a non-athletic youth.

Later in life (as I approached 40) I began to jog and actually ran a 10k in about an hour.

Looking back, I believe my aversion was being both ill-coordinated and not physically strong - and "embarrassment" to a degree.

One "key" to my, later in life, becoming physically active (and actually surpassing lots of men my age) was to focus on just what I could and could not accomplish - and logging the exercises I did, number of laps or miles, timing of what I did, etc. I was, and still am, not able at all to sense my own degree of exercise/fatigue. That is where timing, counting, using a heart rate monitor, etc. helped a lot.

For me, as well, as a youth - "competition" was not a motivator (as it is for some), but much more as an inhibitor to being motivated.
I think this describes my son to a T and me to some degree. Knowing you are not athletic creates a disincentive to be athletic. Thankfully I learned early on I liked to run and ran track in high school. I wasn’t great but could eek out a 2nd or 3rd place finish once in awhile. Even now I participate in my city’s 10k or half marathon annually. That’s what I hope to spark in him. Joy in doing something active, anything active. I’m slow as molasses but I still enjoy a good long run lost in my thoughts. I’m glad I started this thread because it has given me a lots of good ideas.

randomguy
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by randomguy » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:13 pm

Tribonian wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:29 am
I second the food log/diary suggestion- since there are impulse control issues, anything that supports executive function in the PFC versus the hypothalamus’ instinctual cravings for calories would be good. (Apologies for the gross oversimplification.)

Same for whatever physical activity he chooses, whether it’s swimming, walking, lifting, etc.; if he quantifies and logs the progress he makes, it will help reform habits while his PFC catches up with his growing, changing body. So a step counter or Garmin watch that tracks activities and throws them up on an app might help a lot (and I recognize the irony of referring him to a screen). If he can make the balancing of his calories/activities into a video game, so much the better.
Good luck!
Don't forget that we are talking about an 11 year old here. You want to be really careful about doing calorie restriction and the like. General diet clean up (i.e. eating veggies and the like) is fine. But restrictive eating can really mess the kids up.

On the exercise front, you run into the issue that you need regular exercise to burn energy and the like. Going hiking once/week doesn't do much. Walking dogs for an hour 3x/week also does just about nothing. You need stuff that you do 3-4x/week AND that actually get you breathing hard.

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tooluser
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by tooluser » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:51 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:13 pm
Tribonian wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:29 am
I second the food log/diary suggestion- since there are impulse control issues, anything that supports executive function in the PFC versus the hypothalamus’ instinctual cravings for calories would be good. (Apologies for the gross oversimplification.)

Same for whatever physical activity he chooses, whether it’s swimming, walking, lifting, etc.; if he quantifies and logs the progress he makes, it will help reform habits while his PFC catches up with his growing, changing body. So a step counter or Garmin watch that tracks activities and throws them up on an app might help a lot (and I recognize the irony of referring him to a screen). If he can make the balancing of his calories/activities into a video game, so much the better.
Good luck!
Don't forget that we are talking about an 11 year old here. You want to be really careful about doing calorie restriction and the like. General diet clean up (i.e. eating veggies and the like) is fine. But restrictive eating can really mess the kids up.

On the exercise front, you run into the issue that you need regular exercise to burn energy and the like. Going hiking once/week doesn't do much. Walking dogs for an hour 3x/week also does just about nothing. You need stuff that you do 3-4x/week AND that actually get you breathing hard.
Walking dogs for an hour 3x per week exceeds recommended exercise guidelines of most USA health organizations, which is 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, brisk walking. Just don't let your dogs stand and sniff the fire hydrants too much. Keep a good pace. The dogs love having someone be the leader of the pack, and they love discovering new friends' scents.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by AerialWombat » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:04 pm

teen persuasion wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:21 pm
What about geocaching?
I was just going to suggest this. I don’t like hiking, it’s boring. I need a purpose to be out and moving. Geocaching gives me that sense of purpose. The app is free, there can be a social aspect to it via caching events, and it’s both physical and mental exercise.
“Life doesn’t come with a warranty.” -Michael LeBoeuf

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Tribonian » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:05 pm

[/quote]

Don't forget that we are talking about an 11 year old here. You want to be really careful about doing calorie restriction and the like. General diet clean up (i.e. eating veggies and the like) is fine. But restrictive eating can really mess the kids up.

On the exercise front, you run into the issue that you need regular exercise to burn energy and the like. Going hiking once/week doesn't do much. Walking dogs for an hour 3x/week also does just about nothing. You need stuff that you do 3-4x/week AND that actually get you breathing hard.
[/quote]

I recommended the trackers to promote mindfulness, not to restrict calories per se. I agree that a growing child’s calorie needs should be met. But if there are impulse management issues, it’s a tool that could help. And it can also help make sure he’s getting enough calories for base metabolism and growth.

Disagree that moderate activity “does just about nothing;” it may not lead to weight loss but it will promote better health.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by GT99 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:26 pm

Starfish wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:58 am


I am not sure how millions (probably hundred of millions or billions really) of people are irrelevant and anecdotal.
It is something new in certain cultures to spend so much time with kids and be over involved in their activities. Studies probably start from certain assumptions. Of course if you are going to be involved it matters what you teach them. But otherwise kids spend a lot more active time at school and in after school activities than with their parents.
You realize it's not binary, right? The choices aren't just spend some time 1 day a week with your kid (no, that's never been a cultural norm) or be over involved in their activities.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by McGilicutty » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:26 pm

veindoc wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:29 pm
I would like something organized to keep him
(and me) accountable. Dancing is a great idea because he does like to dance.
Youtube has lots of videos of dance classes as well as videos of all types of workouts. You mentioned in another post that he is motivated, so maybe he would be motivated to follow along with a Youtube dance class? This is something he could do on his own and he wouldn't have to worry about being fat-shamed while doing it. Ideally, he could get really good at dancing through following the videos and this might give him the confidence to actually take a class with other kids his age.

Personally, I'm a fat old guy and I just started last week with the following 15-minute beginner workout:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_z6FG_jqE

The exercises in the above video are pretty simple, but there are also more advanced options shown that can provide more of a challenge. I've only been doing the above workout for about a week, but I've already seen quite a bit of improvement. Starting him off with something simple like this might help build his confidence to follow along with some of the more advanced workouts or even to do something more challenging out there in the real world.

I don't know, an 11 year-old boy may not have any interest in following along with a Youtube dance-class/workout/what-have-you, but I thought I'd throw it out there because I haven't seen it mentioned yet.

randomguy
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by randomguy » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:30 pm

tooluser wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:51 pm

Walking dogs for an hour 3x per week exceeds recommended exercise guidelines of most USA health organizations, which is 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, brisk walking. Just don't let your dogs stand and sniff the fire hydrants too much. Keep a good pace. The dogs love having someone be the leader of the pack, and they love discovering new friends' scents.
I have never seen a single recommendation for that little exercise. First google hit
(https://health.gov/paguidelines/2008/mi ... -sheet.pdf) is 60 mins day of moderate exercise as the mininimum of which walking a dog is borderline. Brisk walking 3-4 mph. How people have ever seen walking their dogs at that pace? And these guidelines are not for weight management. They are for basic heart/bone health. Burning say 600-900 calories more per week isn't going to do much. Burning 600+/day will.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Starfish » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:37 am

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:23 am
:oops: Because, according to the research, you are flat out wrong. Again, it has nothing to do with "doing sports" with kids, it is modeling a healthy lifestyle. You are conflating several different issues; guess what, the kids that are more active at school and in after school activities are the kids of those parents who prioritize physical activity themselves. Sure some kids just inherently like exercise more than others, but this does not occur in a vacuum. But, thanks again for speaking for all the "hundreds of millions or even billions" of parents in Europe, because you know them all intimately.

Seriously, Google the research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4126287/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2909717/
https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article ... 52/2418042
https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/c ... /db18-0667
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/8/8/e023406
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.c ... 019-6537-3

How do you distinguish between correlation and causality?
Maybe parents who prioritize a healthy lifestyle are also richer, more educated, feed kids better foods, live in better neighborhoods, have better genetics so on.
The billions I was talking about is pretty much the rest of the world, not only Europe.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by smectym » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:16 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:09 pm
Our 3 kids all did/do cross country.

It is a fantastic sport. It is tough, but you really compete against yourself.

If he truly wants to lose weight, join the cross country team, eat less, eat better. There are many different body types that run.

He will lose weight and he might find out he is good at it. Someone finishes last in every race. But, the last place finisher is ahead of everyone who doesn't run.
Agree, but joining a CC team is probably premature. Try free-form running, on the trail, speed up when he feels like it, slow down, speed up a little bit. A trail, not a track. It’s a workout that is an end in itself: weight loss not the goal, just the run. The running does release endorphins that improve mood. If he comes back sweating it’s a success. Don’t put him on the scale.

It’s a tough one, but if the boy perceives that the main issue at play isn’t what’s good for him, but instead his parents’ anxiety about his weight (“My parents are embarrassed that I’m fat, my parents only want a thin kid”) nothing will work.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by mimn15 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:37 am

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Last edited by mimn15 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

researcher
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by researcher » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:50 am

mimn15 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:37 am
You can check out local swing dancing, Jazzercise... dance classes...
Recommending and 11-year-old boy take swing dancing and jazzercise classes to lose weight...

I think this thread has officially 'jumped the shark'.

stoptothink
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by stoptothink » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:17 am

Starfish wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:37 am
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:23 am
:oops: Because, according to the research, you are flat out wrong. Again, it has nothing to do with "doing sports" with kids, it is modeling a healthy lifestyle. You are conflating several different issues; guess what, the kids that are more active at school and in after school activities are the kids of those parents who prioritize physical activity themselves. Sure some kids just inherently like exercise more than others, but this does not occur in a vacuum. But, thanks again for speaking for all the "hundreds of millions or even billions" of parents in Europe, because you know them all intimately.

Seriously, Google the research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4126287/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2909717/
https://academic.oup.com/eurpub/article ... 52/2418042
https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/c ... /db18-0667
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/8/8/e023406
https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.c ... 019-6537-3

How do you distinguish between correlation and causality?
Maybe parents who prioritize a healthy lifestyle are also richer, more educated, feed kids better foods, live in better neighborhoods, have better genetics so on.
The billions I was talking about is pretty much the rest of the world, not only Europe.
:oops: If you truly believe that the physical activity habits of parents have no influence on the development of those habits in their children, you are more than welcome to your opinion, just be aware that the consensus of the research is that you are wrong. I find it odd how you speak for the entire world with your statements, and with such certainty, but again, you are welcome to your opinion.

Bully3000
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Bully3000 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:34 am

I have a similar son, although not overweight(opposite) very inactive, I just keep having him sign up for a new team sport each season and we try and go ride bikes or swim at weekend

CFM300
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by CFM300 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:43 am

Starfish wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:37 am
How do you distinguish between correlation and causality?
Maybe parents who prioritize a healthy lifestyle are also richer, more educated, feed kids better foods, live in better neighborhoods, have better genetics so on.
The studies he linked address the questions you ask.

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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by IMO » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:11 pm

Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:10 pm
GT99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:56 am
veindoc wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:38 am
Also please no comments on “exercising as a family.[/b]” My husband and I are not particularly athletic either and the most “sport” we do is weekly hikes through our town trails. Other than my oldest we are all normal weight and some are underweight.
You seem to be discounting this as a symptom of the problem. Kids learn from their parents, and they develop habits early.
I am not sure how this idea caught.
When I was a kid one could not imagine that parents would do any sport with the kids. Parents were at work, and did not have any time to engage in any sports except a Sunday walk.
No kids were obese though. I actually remember in my school there were 2 in 300 kids in my year. And one of them was actually pretty active.
Kids play by themselves, they don't need any example for parents about playing, running, climbing trees, biking etc.
I think I was one of those 2 kids. My siblings were active also, and they were not obese/overweight. I was just the rare fat but active kid during that time in history.

On one hand, I agree with you. Back in the day, from my memory (no studies) there wasn't the same level of sports participation by parents either directly with their kids and/or by themselves. There also wasn't the number of obese/overweight parents at that time despite the fact that I don't think the vast majority of other kids parents weren't as active (my parents weren't particularly active). Kids were active and kids also sat around and watched lots of TV from my recollection during those days of 2/300 kids being overweight/obese.

So the studies showing parents that exercise/participate in sports are good studies that probably apply to current trends in society. I wouldn't discount that there have been changes in society and perhaps nowadays those parents that are active also are more careful about what/how much they eat overall which likely translates to them caring about their kids diets.

What has changed from the days of 2/300 kids being overweight/obese in school?

Portion size and ease of food availability. Back in the day, families did not go out and get fast food on a frequent and regular basis like they do today. Further, back in the day, if you ordered a coke, you got a relatively small (by today's standards) drink and there was no refilling the drink. Families in those times were less likely to buy ready made fattening foods, for example, if you wanted cookies one had to go to the effort to make them from scratch (until Chips Ahoy came along) vs. buying in bulk Costco chocolate chip cookies that are oversized. Meal portions were more appropriate in those days.

So when it comes down to it, I would say more of the obesity/overweight issue with today's kids has to do with excess food. If one does get overweight/obese then it becomes less likely you'll be as active as you may have been in the past. Exercise is connected, but the obese/overweight part is simply due to having too many calories (remember, it is possible to be very inactive and not overweight).

But what's also changed is that it's considered "okay" to be overweight/obese in today's society. I'd argue that's a bad thing in my world view, but other's will completely disagree.

theplayer11
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by theplayer11 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:32 pm

IMO wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:11 pm
Starfish wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:10 pm
GT99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:56 am
veindoc wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:38 am
Also please no comments on “exercising as a family.[/b]” My husband and I are not particularly athletic either and the most “sport” we do is weekly hikes through our town trails. Other than my oldest we are all normal weight and some are underweight.
You seem to be discounting this as a symptom of the problem. Kids learn from their parents, and they develop habits early.
I am not sure how this idea caught.
When I was a kid one could not imagine that parents would do any sport with the kids. Parents were at work, and did not have any time to engage in any sports except a Sunday walk.
No kids were obese though. I actually remember in my school there were 2 in 300 kids in my year. And one of them was actually pretty active.
Kids play by themselves, they don't need any example for parents about playing, running, climbing trees, biking etc.
I think I was one of those 2 kids. My siblings were active also, and they were not obese/overweight. I was just the rare fat but active kid during that time in history.

On one hand, I agree with you. Back in the day, from my memory (no studies) there wasn't the same level of sports participation by parents either directly with their kids and/or by themselves. There also wasn't the number of obese/overweight parents at that time despite the fact that I don't think the vast majority of other kids parents weren't as active (my parents weren't particularly active). Kids were active and kids also sat around and watched lots of TV from my recollection during those days of 2/300 kids being overweight/obese.

So the studies showing parents that exercise/participate in sports are good studies that probably apply to current trends in society. I wouldn't discount that there have been changes in society and perhaps nowadays those parents that are active also are more careful about what/how much they eat overall which likely translates to them caring about their kids diets.

What has changed from the days of 2/300 kids being overweight/obese in school?

Portion size and ease of food availability. Back in the day, families did not go out and get fast food on a frequent and regular basis like they do today. Further, back in the day, if you ordered a coke, you got a relatively small (by today's standards) drink and there was no refilling the drink. Families in those times were less likely to buy ready made fattening foods, for example, if you wanted cookies one had to go to the effort to make them from scratch (until Chips Ahoy came along) vs. buying in bulk Costco chocolate chip cookies that are oversized. Meal portions were more appropriate in those days.

So when it comes down to it, I would say more of the obesity/overweight issue with today's kids has to do with excess food. If one does get overweight/obese then it becomes less likely you'll be as active as you may have been in the past. Exercise is connected, but the obese/overweight part is simply due to having too many calories (remember, it is possible to be very inactive and not overweight).

But what's also changed is that it's considered "okay" to be overweight/obese in today's society. I'd argue that's a bad thing in my world view, but other's will completely disagree.
curious as to why you feel that it's considered okay to be overweight/obese in today's society? Because they majority are? The US certainly has a problem and all these overweight people will put a drain on our health care system going forward.
After traveling to different European countries, it's eye opening how thin their citizens are are compared to US citizens.

CheCha54
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by CheCha54 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:58 pm

I might suggest going after long distance running. Give this method a try http://www.jeffgalloway.com/. He would start by walking and progress to Run/Walk. He may find a sense of accomplishment doing a 5/10K Half or Full Marathon. There is a great community out there.

IMO
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by IMO » Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:08 pm

theplayer11 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:32 pm

curious as to why you feel that it's considered okay to be overweight/obese in today's society? Because they majority are? The US certainly has a problem and all these overweight people will put a drain on our health care system going forward.
After traveling to different European countries, it's eye opening how thin their citizens are are compared to US citizens.
Yes, majority rules. Along with the majority, there is a push that one should never look at an overweight/obese person in a negative manner. That would be "fat shaming." It is also wrong to put personal responsibility on someone who is overweight. I'm not advocating being mean to overweight/obese kids or adults. I've been on the negative side of that. However, there needs to be more push that it's NOT okay to get obese/overweight for health reasons.

My spouse and I were out at a beach not that long ago. There were a number of young women, all overweight and some obese in pretty skimpy bathing suits. I commented to my spouse how much things have changed. In my younger day, socially obese/overweight young women would not have been so comfortable wearing such skimpy bathing suits. I'm not trying to judge, just saying yeah, it's now socially acceptable. The problem with the young women on the beach isn't what they look like, but instead the problem is that being overweight/obese is known to be associated with significant health issues. The hard part is how do you tell people if they are obese/overweight that it's not the physical appearance part that is what's wrong, it's the health part that is wrong. But any comment about losing weight would be seen as "fat shaming." Even me commenting on this, I'm going to be criticized for fat shaming people. I do fat shame myself when my weight goes up for whatever that's worth.

theplayer11
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by theplayer11 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:03 pm

IMO wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:08 pm
theplayer11 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:32 pm

curious as to why you feel that it's considered okay to be overweight/obese in today's society? Because they majority are? The US certainly has a problem and all these overweight people will put a drain on our health care system going forward.
After traveling to different European countries, it's eye opening how thin their citizens are are compared to US citizens.
Yes, majority rules. Along with the majority, there is a push that one should never look at an overweight/obese person in a negative manner. That would be "fat shaming." It is also wrong to put personal responsibility on someone who is overweight. I'm not advocating being mean to overweight/obese kids or adults. I've been on the negative side of that. However, there needs to be more push that it's NOT okay to get obese/overweight for health reasons.

My spouse and I were out at a beach not that long ago. There were a number of young women, all overweight and some obese in pretty skimpy bathing suits. I commented to my spouse how much things have changed. In my younger day, socially obese/overweight young women would not have been so comfortable wearing such skimpy bathing suits. I'm not trying to judge, just saying yeah, it's now socially acceptable. The problem with the young women on the beach isn't what they look like, but instead the problem is that being overweight/obese is known to be associated with significant health issues. The hard part is how do you tell people if they are obese/overweight that it's not the physical appearance part that is what's wrong, it's the health part that is wrong. But any comment about losing weight would be seen as "fat shaming." Even me commenting on this, I'm going to be criticized for fat shaming people. I do fat shame myself when my weight goes up for whatever that's worth.
totally agree with you. I not only worry about personal health problems of the obese, but also the effect on health care costs going forward.

nvambith
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by nvambith » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:32 pm

I was thin as a child, but I was rather uncoordinated -- not good at sports, always picked last on teams etc.

As an adult, I have found individual sports (squash, racquetball, table tennis, tennis) to be much better suited for me than any kind of team sports, because you can get the space and reps to improve and enjoy. Whereas, with team sports, you have to be pretty good to even get any playing time, so you get stuck at in an unsatisfying spot at the bottom.

I currently play squash, and find that a large variety of body types can play it quite well. There are multiple ways to play it well, so it kinda evens out any physical advantages / disadvantages. Also, it is quite fun, and can be a good workout. So, if you can find squash or racquetball somewhere near you, you could try it out, and see how it goes with your son.

Badminton/tennis/table tennis as others suggested might also be good in similar ways.

randomguy
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by randomguy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:58 pm

IMO wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:11 pm

What has changed from the days of 2/300 kids being overweight/obese in school?

Portion size and ease of food availability.

And lack of exercise. If you look at the studies it is combo of the average person eating 500 calories/day more AND also burning off 400 less compared to the 60s/early 70s. Jobs used to require a lot more physical activity and just general things like cleaning the house also took more energy. Compare cutting the yard with reel mower versus a gas powered self propelled one. It also helps that food has gotten really cheap. And of course having a ton of people smoking (i.e. appetite suppressant and a stimulant) also helped out population averages.

If you talk to the morbidly obese (i.e. the 40+ BMI crowd), you will find there isn't much fat acceptance out there. What has changed is that 20lbs overweight is the standard now and if you are normal weight, everyone calls you skinny and if you are skinny they worry you have a health problem. As far as fat shaming being useful, nope it doesn't do much to change behaviors. It isn't remotely productive.

finite_difference
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by finite_difference » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:13 pm

hdas wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 pm
If you haven’t met a real Kung Fu master then, which, since we are being blunt, makes me question your experience in this area. They are few and far between. But if you go to tournaments you will likely run into them.

If you have watched some of the very old Jackie Chan or Shaw Brothers movies, that gives you a choreographed glimpse into real Kung Fu.

But the choreography and learning of forms is just one aspect of training. You also have to understand the application of the moves in the forms and train the moves themselves. So you want to find a school that doesn’t just teach forms, but teaches the applications and drills.
I haven't seen Unicorns either. More seriously, we have had the testing ground for all this speculation, and in the last 25 years not a single Kung Fu practitioner has transitioned succesfully in MMA. Furthermore, there are tons of videos of "challenges" of said Masters against an MMA or Muay Thai guys, and the outcome is embarrassing for the Kung Fu ppl.

I'm sorry you wasted your time with that "martial art", it has happened to many people, I dont' think its ever late to switch. Cheers :greedy
I will concede that I think it’s more about the teacher and the student than the style.

UFC uses gloves and many Kung Fu techniques would be illegal in UFC, so it’s not surprising that it doesn’t transition well. ;)

UFC is kind of like boxing except allowing for kicks and elbows and is thus extremely brutal. No sane person would want to compete in that and it goes against the entire philosophy of Kung Fu, which is based on peace and self-defense.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

finite_difference
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by finite_difference » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:33 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:05 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:55 pm
hdas wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:47 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:37 am
There is a world of variation in “martial arts”, ranging from horrible to mediocre at best to very good.

Try to find an authentic, traditional teacher. That’s what made me catch the bug anyway. I’ve lost significant weight and even more fat. With just a good Kung Fu school, you don’t need any other activity.
Kung Fu is a choreography, utterly useless in the real world. Sorry to be so blunt. Cheers :greedy
My neighbor, whose 13yr old son is about to get a 3rd degree black belt, regularly comments that he'd bet on my 7yr old daughter (who takes jiu jitsu) against his son in a fight.
1 vs 1, especially if there are rules, I think Jiu Jitsu is tough to beat.

No rules and multiple opponents makes it less effective.
Jiu jitsu as it is conventionally taught today (sport techniques, solely grappling, which my daughter does) has little relevance to real world combat. It is only effective in that context when combined with other techniques (specifically, the ability to take someone down). That being said, I'd pay to see the reaction if you walked into your local combat sports training center and stated that kung fu was more effective.

If there is a single thing that the earliest MMA competitions taught, it's that traditional Asian martial arts stand no chance against the less beautiful but more brutal combat arts (ie. wrestling, muay thai, boxing, classical BJJ). To build confidence, develop discipline, and improve fitness; sure.

Sorry for the tangent.
I think you’re mixing up and Wushu and not traditional Chinese Kung Fu. The former is very flowery and beautiful. The latter is arguably still beautiful but extremely brutal.

If I keep up Kung Fu training for about 20 more years, then I might be in a position to take you up on your offer. Right now I’m still very much a beginner, but things are starting to click. It’s relatively easy to learn to be able to hurt someone; the real technique lies in being able to not hurt the other person, especially if they are physically stronger or bigger than you.

randomguy
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by randomguy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:38 pm

finite_difference wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:13 pm
hdas wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:57 pm
finite_difference wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:03 pm
If you haven’t met a real Kung Fu master then, which, since we are being blunt, makes me question your experience in this area. They are few and far between. But if you go to tournaments you will likely run into them.

If you have watched some of the very old Jackie Chan or Shaw Brothers movies, that gives you a choreographed glimpse into real Kung Fu.

But the choreography and learning of forms is just one aspect of training. You also have to understand the application of the moves in the forms and train the moves themselves. So you want to find a school that doesn’t just teach forms, but teaches the applications and drills.
I haven't seen Unicorns either. More seriously, we have had the testing ground for all this speculation, and in the last 25 years not a single Kung Fu practitioner has transitioned succesfully in MMA. Furthermore, there are tons of videos of "challenges" of said Masters against an MMA or Muay Thai guys, and the outcome is embarrassing for the Kung Fu ppl.

I'm sorry you wasted your time with that "martial art", it has happened to many people, I dont' think its ever late to switch. Cheers :greedy
I will concede that I think it’s more about the teacher and the student than the style.

UFC uses gloves and many Kung Fu techniques would be illegal in UFC, so it’s not surprising that it doesn’t transition well. ;)

UFC is kind of like boxing except allowing for kicks and elbows and is thus extremely brutal. No sane person would want to compete in that and it goes against the entire philosophy of Kung Fu, which is based on peace and self-defense.
Unless you are fighting in a ring, I am not sure either translates well for self defense. I am not sure I would recommend a 120lb female grappling against a 200lb guy no matter how good the ground game is in MMA. I might vote for the kick to the balls and running like hell:) I know 20 years ago when I did Tae Kwon Do, none of the self defense moves would past muster for a MMA event. We also spend minimal time on them and spent most of it doing the sport side of the art. I also know I was counting on coming across some one with basically zero training and not someone who had spend 1000s of hours perfecting a fighting technique:)

As far as losing weight, I am guessing any of them is adequate for getting in some vigorous exercise even if you never do any sparing.

usagi
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by usagi » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:48 am

finite_difference wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:13 pm

UFC is kind of like boxing except allowing for kicks and elbows and is thus extremely brutal...
No it is not, not even close.
No sane person would want to compete in that
I am very sane and first "rolled" when I was 51 and stopped at 54 as I would have had to step up the competition. As a prelude to that I started in Kara-te in 1969, Gung-fu around 1973, held PKA title in the early 80s, state toughman, and for while was a pro-boxer. I wanted to see how I fared and weed out some B.S. I accumulated since my PKA and toughman days for the sake of my students so started in MMA. As a result of that experience, I altered the curriculum's focus.
and it goes against the entire philosophy of Kung Fu, which is based on peace and self-defense.
Maybe in your Kwan but that is very incongruent with how it is practiced by the majority world wide. I say this as a Bai He Quan instructor for over 30 years, with Bai He Quan normally considered one of the most benign martial arts.

You have your perspective, a philosophy if you will, but you are painting a very diverse, nuanced, universe with the same broad brush.

Take a look at this video from about 10:30 to 13:20. Does he look like he is training for peace and self-defense? By the way this is from Pak Mei, a internal-external system, very much like Bai He Quan. I get together once a year or so with some Pak Mei guys since they like a bit of contact and like to press the offense; they have replaced Wing Chun folks as my favorite chew toys.

reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msxvq4DnMWA

Cheers.
Last edited by usagi on Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

JFKtoSFO
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by JFKtoSFO » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:20 am

Agreed with the poster that there is a bit of..."uphill both ways in the snow" going on in this post. Chiming in as someone who lived this not too long ago.

Your kid has self-esteem issues. I will guarantee this because you've said people are "helpfully" telling him about his weight. This can cut deep and last forever. I wish my parents had helped me find someone to talk to about this. Talking to a therapist about this might be beneficial for your child. It's a trusted adult they can have a private conversation with, and get to the bottom of what they're really feeling. In addition, they might open up about activities they'd really like to try.

Your kid is probably sneaking food. Other posters who have been there have said as much, and I absolutely agree.. because I did it too. I ate because I was bored or stressed or sad. Had I said anything to my parents about it, they probably would have brushed me off and told me to join team sports and rake the lawn. (I did both those things, and they didn't solve my issues around food, nor cure my aversion to team sports). Again... trusted adult I could have a real conversation with would have been so valuable to me.

More thoughts on exercise later, I have to run to my weighlifting coach for my 6:30am session. See? We can change, we just work a little differently than a kid who is inclined to join the football team :wink:

Ok, back to exercise. I second the folks that recommended geocaching and pokemon go. It's a gamification of walking/hiking. I also find it interesting that, as far as I've seen, no one has mentioned yoga. It's a great activity for people who prefer to go at their own pace and don't love team based or more aggressive activities. It also helps quiet the mind and focus on the body. As a bonus it's a great companion to weightlifting, which like other posters I would also recommend (Especially if they could start out with a knowledgeable trainer). There are several youth programs at the gym where I train. It's wonderful to see these kids light up when they finish a set of back squats.

Props to you OP for being open and involved.
Last edited by JFKtoSFO on Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Andyrunner
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by Andyrunner » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:33 am

Camping. Start small with car camping then see if he he wants to a walk in site, then maybe backpacking?

Mtn biking, take him on some local mtn bike trails and he will have such a big smile on his face he won't realize he is burning calories.

RobLyons
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by RobLyons » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:35 am

11 is not too early for weightlifting. I started about 11/12 and continue to this day at age 38. I follow the latest science based training and medical advice and it doesn't stunt growth or cause other issues and the most important aspect is proper form and not going too heavy.

Good luck!
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

knowledge
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by knowledge » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:15 am

Based upon the responses from the OP, it sounds like starting weightlifting is the way to go. I think that's a great idea, assuming he can do it from home.

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dm200
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:20 am

Look for "lifetime" activities - such as walking/jogging, sports such as Tennis, and so on.

Some folks like "competition" to stay active, while - for me - this was always a "turnoff". As I reached my late 30's and started an exercise program - what worked for me was to track what I did each day or week - and looked for progression, if possible.

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tooluser
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by tooluser » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:13 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:30 pm
tooluser wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:51 pm

Walking dogs for an hour 3x per week exceeds recommended exercise guidelines of most USA health organizations, which is 150 minutes per week of moderate exercise, brisk walking. Just don't let your dogs stand and sniff the fire hydrants too much. Keep a good pace. The dogs love having someone be the leader of the pack, and they love discovering new friends' scents.
I have never seen a single recommendation for that little exercise. First google hit
(https://health.gov/paguidelines/2008/mi ... -sheet.pdf) is 60 mins day of moderate exercise as the mininimum of which walking a dog is borderline. Brisk walking 3-4 mph. How people have ever seen walking their dogs at that pace? And these guidelines are not for weight management. They are for basic heart/bone health. Burning say 600-900 calories more per week isn't going to do much. Burning 600+/day will.
Thanks for the link - you are correct. For adults the recommendation is 30 mins, but for youths it's 60 min. They do count running around on the recess field like kids do as strenuous exercise.

As for dog walking, I agree that most people toddle along with their pet. But I often see people jogging with their dogs, some even with a stroller and a latte while talking on the phone. But that's Los Angeles I guess. As motivation, getting out with the dog would be a lot more fun than just walking.

birdy
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Re: Physical activity suggestions for a non athletic youth

Post by birdy » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:42 am

Join 4-H or boy scouts to get him out of the house. If he likes animals, get him a dog and have him take agility classes. Encourage him to have a dog walking business or help at local animal shelter or volunteer else where. Does he like to sing? Maybe encourage him to join a chorus (think social). Has he tried rock climbing (indoors or out)? Make a "fort"/"treehouse" together. I had my own horse as a kid and spent many hours grooming/feeding/riding (and yes I do consider it exercise to ride)----the trick is to find what interests him! Can he play racket ball (I liked it because I didn't have to chase the ball very far!)? Bowling was a great idea someone else mentioned. I used to climb trees as a kid. By trying different things, maybe he will discover hidden talents he can enjoy for a lifetime! How about archery? Good luck! Sometimes it just takes awhile before they find their own "path".

birdy

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