Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

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jeffyscott
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by jeffyscott » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:03 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:32 am
jeffyscott wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:09 am
While I don't think it makes it unique or an elevated wagon, any more than the rest of them really are elevated wagons (or minivans with hinged doors), the height is a bit less than some competitors. Outback is 66 inches (actual roof may be an inch or two less, since roof rack is included?), while the Highlander and Edge are 68 and the Pilot is 71 inches, the Santa Fe is also 66 but that's w/o roof rack.
I'm a little confused by what you're saying. I think previous posters talked about ground clearance of an Outback, which gives it more of a chance to get through deep snow. Many SUVs, pickups and mini vans have far less ground clearance than an Outback. Something like a Wrangler beats it, but that's a very different vehicle.
I don't know anything about ground clearance of various models, but I was responding to posts that say things like "The Outback is basically a raised and ruggedized station wagon". To me, while that was the case for your 2002, it is no longer so (at least not to any greater extent than all of these unibody "SUVs" are also elevated/tall wagons).
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:42 pm

livesoft wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:18 am
Any chance of getting the 2016 Outback back from DS?
LOL

After seeing how much abuse (my opinion) he inflicted upon my 2004 Solara in five years, it may already be too late for DW to accept it back. She is driving the Solara now and is really impressed with how well it drives. It does use some oil and I don't trust it for long trips. It makes me so sad to see what it has been through after I drove it (and took care of it) for ten years that I have declined to drive it unless absolutely necessary. However, DW is happy to be driving it now, but is ready to move on. She has already taken a cursory online look at a few of the suggestions I received here and she may have suddenly been stricken with a fatal case of new car fever.
Last edited by Doom&Gloom on Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mpnret
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by mpnret » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:55 pm

My wife has been driving Outbacks since 2010 (3) and for myself the Legacy sedan. The Outbacks are now gone, replaced by a Forster but my Legacy remains. Under the skins the Legacy and the Outbacks that I owned are very much the same. Drivetrain, suspension, AWD system, engine, transmission and so on. Outback has the ground clearance, cargo area and roof racks. Other than that it's a Legacy wagon.

btenny
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by btenny » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:52 pm

I am a big fan of the older model Outbacks with the 6 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission. I have a 2013 model and really like it. It has great acceleration and drive-ability and is great in the Tahoe snow and mountains. It is more of a utility wagon. The drivers seat is good but the passenger seat is poor. So road trip comfort is marginal.

The new Outback models are worse IMO. They have CVT transmissions and 4 cylinder engines to get better MPG but that kills the performance. If you upgrade to a turbo engine with the CVT it still has only modest performance.

So now most Tahoe people are buying the Mazda CX5 or the Honda CRV or the Toyota RAV4 if they want economy instead of the Subaru. But if they want comfort they are buying one of the luxury SUVs. I bought a used Lincoln MKX last January. It is a really quiet comfortable SUV. The seats are amazing. It has all the latest safety features and gets 25 MPG on regular gas. I did not drive the Buick or the GM cars and from past experience will never own a GM car again. I did not like the Lexus RX or the Audi or the Acura. The Jeeps Grand Cherokees were nice but really expensive.

So there are lots of issues and alternatives. Good Luck.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:23 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:26 pm
EHEngineer wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:09 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:32 pm
Never thought I would be posting a car buying topic on BH, yet here I am.
...
After looking on the internet for info on suitable alternatives, I realized I was quickly overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you folks could help me narrow the field to help us begin a search I would greatly appreciate it.

Highly desired: Reliability; comfortable (ie, not stiff) ride and seats; decent handling; safety and "comfort" features (we loved adaptive cruise control, backup warning, blind spot warning; others, not so much). DW wants remote start despite my objections. Prefer to keep it under $40k (we found a lot of value in the Outback and expect to be a little disappointed for a comparably priced vehicle).

Not needed: AWD or 4WD. Most everything not listed above is low priority.
Doom&Gloom,
I suggest you join Consumer Reports for 1 Month ($7.95). They have great video reviews of all the midsize SUVs. You can review many cars in the time it would take for one trip to a dealer. After you narrow down your choice to the top 3 or 4 cars, then you can test drive them.
https://www.consumerreports.org/join?INTKEY=I810GH0MB

Good luck.
Great idea! Thanks. I let my long-time subscription to CR lapse a few years ago and have not kept up with subscription options. And I certainly had no idea about the video reviews of the midsize SUVs--just their regular April Auto issue, which I presume continues.
And in the "You Snooze, You Lose" category I just clicked on this link and it shows $10/month. Last night when I clicked, it was indeed $7.95. I should have signed up then :oops:

oldfatguy
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by oldfatguy » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:23 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:26 pm

Great idea! Thanks. I let my long-time subscription to CR lapse a few years ago and have not kept up with subscription options. And I certainly had no idea about the video reviews of the midsize SUVs--just their regular April Auto issue, which I presume continues.
And in the "You Snooze, You Lose" category I just clicked on this link and it shows $10/month. Last night when I clicked, it was indeed $7.95. I should have signed up then :oops:
Check your public library system, or a nearby public university library - they may have an access code available for their online subscription.

drummerboy
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by drummerboy » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:41 pm

Two decent options:
  • Mazda CX-5
  • Acura RDX (FWD, not the AWD) - if willing to spend a bit more

DaftInvestor
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by DaftInvestor » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 pm

randomguy wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:52 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:23 pm
jeff1949 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:11 pm
My top choices would be the Toyota RAV-4, Mazdz CX-5 and the Honda CR-V which are all top rated for reliability.
These three! Someone mentioned highlander and pilot above but they are likely bigger than you need based upon outback (and if you want them loaded you will be hard pressed to keep them under 40k).
New RAV-4 redesign is great.
Outback is bigger than those 3 and smaller than pilot. Depending on your size requirements you might need to downsize or upsize.
I guess it depends upon your definition of "big". From a length perspective perhaps - but cargo space, gas mileage, drive experience perspective, etc - outback would be closer to rav4 or crv than highlander or pilot.

goodlifer
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by goodlifer » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:12 pm

I traded in my 2015 Outback for a Jeep Grand Cherokee, but with the options and trim level I wanted, the JGC is well above your $40,000 limit. I test drove lower trim levels and all were very comfortable to sit in and drive, steering was great, and it has all the safety options the Outback has as long as you pick the right model. My model even has a larger ground clearance than the Outback. I love my new vehicle and the service dept treats us very well, which was one of the deciding factors in getting rid of the Outback. I have a V8, so it is a gas pig at 17mpg city, but we have 4x4 and a larger engine. I'm sure the other models get better mileage.

I have family members that have the RAV4, Hyundai Santa Fe, Kia Sorrento, and Dodge Durango. They all love their vehicles and no one has had any problems with them except the Santa Fe had some sort of belt problem that was fixed under warranty. Personally, I prefer the Sorrento over the Santa Fe but the Sorrento in our family is a new car and the Santa Fe is older.

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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by friar1610 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:49 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:18 pm
One of the the closest vehicles in size and layout (being another wagon - a bit shorter in height and longer in length than a typical SUV), is the Volvo XC70. Somebody else also mentioned the Buick Regal TourX, which should likewise be similar.

The downside they are also a fair amount more expensive, but it seems like Volvo owners tend to rate their cars well.
I'm a fan of Volvos. I had a 2005 XC-70 wagon that I replaced in very early 2018. I was looking very closely at new Subaru Outbacks but finally went with a low-mileage, very nicely equipped used 2015 XC-70 at about the same price as a new 2018 nicely equipped Subie (I've forgotten the models but it was one down from the top). They don't make XC-70s anymore (2016 was the last year) and I thought I'd buy one more while I could. IMO, they're the perfect size. I also looked at V-60 AWD and XC wagon models. They were nice and fun to drive, comfortable in the front seat but cramped in the rear seat. After being used to an XC-70, the cargo area was way too small. But it's a nice (but overpriced when new, IMO) wagon if the size meets your needs. The V-90 wagon is a bit larger than an XC-70 but in a luxury car price range. I've seen very few on the road which tells me that people who used to have XC-70s don't want to pay that much more for a replacement wagon and Volvo may have misguaged the market. I think most ex-XC-70 wagon owners are probably going to the XC-60 which I also looked at and drove. It's nice if you want an SUV but I prefer a wagon, hence the used XC-70.

My wife's car is a Buick Regal sedan and I was really looking forward to the launch of the TourX wagon during that period. (I had seen them in Europe where they are sold as Vauxhalls in the UK and Opels on the Continent) and they are attractive. But when they finally arrived at the Buick dealer they just didn't click with me. Nothing particularly bad that I can cite except that it might have been a little smaller than I had expected. I've seen very few on the road.

Probably more info than you want... (BTW, I'm 70+).
Friar1610

ilovedogs
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by ilovedogs » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:22 pm

Just an fyi re the Honda CRV. Make sure the driver's seat is comfortable if you and your DW are looking at one. I drove a family member's Honda CRV many times and it was nowhere near as comfortable as the Subaru Outback and Forester. It was just way too big no matter what I tried to do to the seat.

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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by tomd37 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:47 pm

Friar1610
The Buick Regal TourX never seemed to take off. They were featured by Buick in two succeeding annual car shows here in Nashville when they came out and I looked at them very closely each year as I was considering a new station wagon back then. I have yet to see one on the road anywhere. One thing I did not like about them was their height off the ground. In my early 80s, I was not looking for a vehicle that I had to "get down into" but rather one that was higher and that was easier to get into. Also one that had much greater visibility fore and aft (Navy term you well know!). I like your choice in the recent Volvo you purchased and agree with your comments about the V-90. Don't see a lot of them either.
Tom D.

investor4life
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by investor4life » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:00 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:32 pm
Never thought I would be posting a car buying topic on BH, yet here I am. DW bought a 2016 Outback new but recently swapped it with DS who had been driving my old 2004 Toyota Solara. She loved the Outback and her intention was to buy a new Outback when the 2020s came out. She had selected the version, option, and on Saturday we drove by a dealer to check out a vehicle with the color she wanted. She was all set. Since then, for reasons I do not wish to go into on this board, we soured completely on Subaru. The reason is almost completely unrelated to the vehicle itself, but we will never purchase another Subaru.

Neither of us know anything at all about other SUVs (or similar). Even after driving her Outback frequently, I still have trouble differentiating Outbacks from other SUVs on the road. I don't even like SUVs, but she is dead set on buying a new one. After looking on the internet for info on suitable alternatives, I realized I was quickly overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you folks could help me narrow the field to help us begin a search I would greatly appreciate it.

Highly desired: Reliability; comfortable (ie, not stiff) ride and seats; decent handling; safety and "comfort" features (we loved adaptive cruise control, backup warning, blind spot warning; others, not so much). DW wants remote start despite my objections. Prefer to keep it under $40k (we found a lot of value in the Outback and expect to be a little disappointed for a comparably priced vehicle).

Not needed: AWD or 4WD. Most everything not listed above is low priority.
Very satisfied CX5 (2019) owner here. Car is a blast to drive and feels really luxurious on the inside. (DS who has a Q5 was very impressed with it.) Only downside is that it is on the small side (cargo and storage areas in the passenger compartment). Averaging 27 mpg in mixed driving.

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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 pm
I guess it depends upon your definition of "big". From a length perspective perhaps - but cargo space, gas mileage, drive experience perspective, etc - outback would be closer to rav4 or crv than highlander or pilot.
Note that for cargo space, don't rely on manufacturer's numbers as they do not use a consistent methodology for this measurement. The only source that I know of that measures this independently and by a consistent methodology is Consumer Reports. For example Honda claims 39.2 cf for the CRV, while CR puts it at 36. In contrast Hyundai is pretty consistent with CR, claiming 35.9 cf for the Santa Fe compared to the 35.5 measured by CR.

But even the CR numbers may miss some factors. It was surprising to me that they measured about the same cargo volume in a CRV and a Santa Fe, as the Santa Fe is about 7 inches longer and an inch or two wider, while height is about the same. In this particular case, I think a couple of the factors are that the Santa Fe has a significant amount of under floor storage space (maybe 3-4 cf) that must be ignored in the Consumer Report figures, meanwhile the CRV allows you to lower the floor a few inches, increasing the maximum volume that they measure. In addition, I also think that for most people, the horizontal cargo dimensions are more important than vertical (i.e. an extra 5 inches of length is more useful than an extra 5 inches of height, especially when the rear opening is about the same size despite the added interior cargo height).
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

theplayer11
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by theplayer11 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:05 am

investor4life wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:00 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:32 pm
Never thought I would be posting a car buying topic on BH, yet here I am. DW bought a 2016 Outback new but recently swapped it with DS who had been driving my old 2004 Toyota Solara. She loved the Outback and her intention was to buy a new Outback when the 2020s came out. She had selected the version, option, and on Saturday we drove by a dealer to check out a vehicle with the color she wanted. She was all set. Since then, for reasons I do not wish to go into on this board, we soured completely on Subaru. The reason is almost completely unrelated to the vehicle itself, but we will never purchase another Subaru.

Neither of us know anything at all about other SUVs (or similar). Even after driving her Outback frequently, I still have trouble differentiating Outbacks from other SUVs on the road. I don't even like SUVs, but she is dead set on buying a new one. After looking on the internet for info on suitable alternatives, I realized I was quickly overwhelmed by the sheer number of models. If you folks could help me narrow the field to help us begin a search I would greatly appreciate it.

Highly desired: Reliability; comfortable (ie, not stiff) ride and seats; decent handling; safety and "comfort" features (we loved adaptive cruise control, backup warning, blind spot warning; others, not so much). DW wants remote start despite my objections. Prefer to keep it under $40k (we found a lot of value in the Outback and expect to be a little disappointed for a comparably priced vehicle).

Not needed: AWD or 4WD. Most everything not listed above is low priority.
Very satisfied CX5 (2019) owner here. Car is a blast to drive and feels really luxurious on the inside. (DS who has a Q5 was very impressed with it.) Only downside is that it is on the small side (cargo and storage areas in the passenger compartment). Averaging 27 mpg in mixed driving.
same here. Perfect mix of reliability, value, performance and style. Wins hands down over CR-V, Rav4, Rogue, IMO.

DaftInvestor
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by DaftInvestor » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:23 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 pm
I guess it depends upon your definition of "big". From a length perspective perhaps - but cargo space, gas mileage, drive experience perspective, etc - outback would be closer to rav4 or crv than highlander or pilot.
Note that for cargo space, don't rely on manufacturer's numbers as they do not use a consistent methodology for this measurement. The only source that I know of that measures this independently and by a consistent methodology is Consumer Reports. For example Honda claims 39.2 cf for the CRV, while CR puts it at 36. In contrast Hyundai is pretty consistent with CR, claiming 35.9 cf for the Santa Fe compared to the 35.5 measured by CR.

But even the CR numbers may miss some factors. It was surprising to me that they measured about the same cargo volume in a CRV and a Santa Fe, as the Santa Fe is about 7 inches longer and an inch or two wider, while height is about the same. In this particular case, I think a couple of the factors are that the Santa Fe has a significant amount of under floor storage space (maybe 3-4 cf) that must be ignored in the Consumer Report figures, meanwhile the CRV allows you to lower the floor a few inches, increasing the maximum volume that they measure. In addition, I also think that for most people, the horizontal cargo dimensions are more important than vertical (i.e. an extra 5 inches of length is more useful than an extra 5 inches of height, especially when the rear opening is about the same size despite the added interior cargo height).
from my perspective, having both and outback and 2019 rav4 - I can fit more in the rav4 - height comes in handy for many items - and it feels bigger to drive than outback (height, width). Move up to highlander or pilot which some here are saying is more comparable to outback (?) and now you feel you are driving a truck and have a 3rd seating row you likely don't need if the outback is what you were about to buy.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:42 pm

Thanks for the additional responses. I must say I am surprised by the number of recommendations for some of the models--some of which neither DW or I even knew existed. Just shows we really hadn't been paying attention to other vehicles on the road. We just got home from an overnight trip and found one another paying attention to nearly every SUV or wagon we saw. First time I remember paying such close attention to other vehicles in many years!

DW has uncharacteristically decided to be patient pursuing this purchase which I find to be quite comforting. I will certainly try to remember to update this thread when she makes a decision and will report our early impressions. I am certainly open to hearing additional recommendations and opinions, but I feel we already have plenty to keep us busy for at least several weeks. Thanks again!

randomguy
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by randomguy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:56 pm

jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 pm
I guess it depends upon your definition of "big". From a length perspective perhaps - but cargo space, gas mileage, drive experience perspective, etc - outback would be closer to rav4 or crv than highlander or pilot.
Note that for cargo space, don't rely on manufacturer's numbers as they do not use a consistent methodology for this measurement. The only source that I know of that measures this independently and by a consistent methodology is Consumer Reports. For example Honda claims 39.2 cf for the CRV, while CR puts it at 36. In contrast Hyundai is pretty consistent with CR, claiming 35.9 cf for the Santa Fe compared to the 35.5 measured by CR.

But even the CR numbers may miss some factors. It was surprising to me that they measured about the same cargo volume in a CRV and a Santa Fe, as the Santa Fe is about 7 inches longer and an inch or two wider, while height is about the same. In this particular case, I think a couple of the factors are that the Santa Fe has a significant amount of under floor storage space (maybe 3-4 cf) that must be ignored in the Consumer Report figures, meanwhile the CRV allows you to lower the floor a few inches, increasing the maximum volume that they measure. In addition, I also think that for most people, the horizontal cargo dimensions are more important than vertical (i.e. an extra 5 inches of length is more useful than an extra 5 inches of height, especially when the rear opening is about the same size despite the added interior cargo height).
I find the places that use carry on bags to be most useful to me:) But even then I am not as interest in stacking things to the ceiling as much as cargo below the seat back height. Some cars are horribly inefficient. Go sit in a Lexus NX and try to figure out how they made it so small on the inside:) As always go sit in the cars you are interested in and see if everything fits. It can be surprising about how much a difference an inch here or there can make.

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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:47 pm

randomguy wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:56 pm
jeffyscott wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:47 pm
I guess it depends upon your definition of "big". From a length perspective perhaps - but cargo space, gas mileage, drive experience perspective, etc - outback would be closer to rav4 or crv than highlander or pilot.
Note that for cargo space, don't rely on manufacturer's numbers as they do not use a consistent methodology for this measurement. The only source that I know of that measures this independently and by a consistent methodology is Consumer Reports. For example Honda claims 39.2 cf for the CRV, while CR puts it at 36. In contrast Hyundai is pretty consistent with CR, claiming 35.9 cf for the Santa Fe compared to the 35.5 measured by CR.

But even the CR numbers may miss some factors. It was surprising to me that they measured about the same cargo volume in a CRV and a Santa Fe, as the Santa Fe is about 7 inches longer and an inch or two wider, while height is about the same. In this particular case, I think a couple of the factors are that the Santa Fe has a significant amount of under floor storage space (maybe 3-4 cf) that must be ignored in the Consumer Report figures, meanwhile the CRV allows you to lower the floor a few inches, increasing the maximum volume that they measure. In addition, I also think that for most people, the horizontal cargo dimensions are more important than vertical (i.e. an extra 5 inches of length is more useful than an extra 5 inches of height, especially when the rear opening is about the same size despite the added interior cargo height).
I find the places that use carry on bags to be most useful to me:) But even then I am not as interest in stacking things to the ceiling as much as cargo below the seat back height. Some cars are horribly inefficient. Go sit in a Lexus NX and try to figure out how they made it so small on the inside:) As always go sit in the cars you are interested in and see if everything fits. It can be surprising about how much a difference an inch here or there can make.
CR uses luggage pieces for sedans, but not for CUV, SUVs, minivans, or wagons. I believe I also read that for trunks there is a standardized measurement method that is used by manufacturers, so trunk CF numbers may be safe to compare.

I agree about below the seat back being the most useful, that's part of why I think horizontal dimensions or more important than height...and since width does not vary by that much, it really comes down to length behind the back seat.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

teamDE
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by teamDE » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:32 pm

If it's big enough for your needs, i'd recommend the VW Golf Sportwagen or Alltrack. We have the GSW 4Motion S which is a base model. It's a surprisingly nice driving chassis. We were originally considering Volvos and Audis, but we got this sucker new for $23k, just too good a deal.

My MIL has a brand new Outback that i drive on occasion. It feels like a monster truck in comparison. Bigger, but not my cup of tea in terms of driving feel and fun.

finite_difference
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by finite_difference » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:14 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:41 am
theplayer11 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:35 am
eye.surgeon wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:05 pm
Don't allow emotions to make a big financial decision like a vehicle. Whatever hurt your feelings at Subaru, ask yourself if you're using your head, or emotions, to walk away from the vehicle you actually want. The outback is a highly rated reliable and affordable vehicle and frankly there is nothing else quite like it, whatever else you get won't replicate it exactly. Many of the suggestions here, while well-intentioned, are a far cry from an Outback.

As in investing, make logical choices not emotional ones.
Many options listed are better than the Outback depending on what you want in a vehicle. The 4cyl Outback is slow and their are better alternatives if driveability is a priority.
3 of my siblings and my mom all have Outbacks, all have had (what I'd consider) not acceptable reliability issues...and I drive a VW. I don't get the appeal at all. Would love to know why there is "nothing else quite like it".
Which years?

Subaru has generally very good safety ratings. EyeSight is highly rated. For reliability, well, I have a 2015 Forester and so far so good but I’m glad they extended the CVT warranty to 10 years / 100k miles. Some Subaru dealers also offer lifetime power train warranties, etc.

Subaru + stick shift might be a good way to go if you’re paranoid about CVT.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

marc515
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by marc515 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:50 am

Doom&gloom, I'm glad you are learning of the many choices out there, but I am at a loss as to why you are being so secretive about your issue with Sabaru, as it's possible your issue is something we all can look out for, or learn from.

We have a 2018 Outback, and we love it, and our next vehicle will most likely a Sabaru!

m

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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Sconie » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:31 am

Just FWIW, I've had several Subaru Outbacks over the years-----(wonderful 4WD/AWD system!)----but gosh, the reliability/quality issues with our most recent purchase (2019 2.5i Touring model) have started to make me wish we've bought something else. Eyesight problems, cracked glass, leather interior delamination, sound system malfunctions, etc.-----the "problem list" just goes on and on. Think it's going to be back to Toyotas for us next time around...
I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Alan Greenspan

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:07 pm

For those wondering about the reason for the dissatisfaction with Subaru that generated this thread, more information can be found in Post #6 here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=251700

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:41 am

OP here to report DW's decision and her process for those who have been unable to stand the suspense :wink:

Vehicle is to be DW's, but she usually prefers that I drive when I am with her--so do I, but my preference for driving is weaker than it used to be. I have had my vehicle for 5 years and she has still not driven it--doesn't seem fair but we live with it. As I have posted elsewhere on this site our finances are separate--with vehicle purchases, maintenance, and insurance all being a very well defined line. Thus, I wanted to be nothing more than a source of information and provide feedback only when asked--and to try to help her not make any huge errors with the purchase.

After relaying the recommendations here I was a bit surprised when she told me that she didn't want a Toyota or a Honda "because there are so many of them on the road." As these would have been the first places I would have looked, I suggested that there might be good reasons why they are so popular. She conceded that she might look at them "last." She also initially dismissed Hyundai and Kia for unstated reasons and said she didn't even want to look at them at all. She did a little internet surfing to view some of the other makes recommended here. She was particularly interested in the Buick Regal TourX and the Volkswagens.

Our first stop for a look and a test drive was at our local Buick dealer. Not a single TourX on the lot. She found a dealer 30 miles away that had several, so we went there and test drove one. She was in love with it, and as I was not expecting much, I was pretty impressed with it. These were 2019 models, so she wanted to compare them with the 2020s while we checked other makes.

DW called the local VW dealer, but they did not have what she wanted to look at. The salesman was quite helpful and gave her the locations of the dealerships with the model she wanted to see. Unfortunately the closest were 200 and 300 miles away and only had one vehicle each. These seemed to be scarce as hens' teeth. Our next stop was at a Mazda dealer to check out the CX-5. She drove it, liked it--but not as much as the Buick. I really, really liked the CX-5. If it had been my decision, that would have been the one--unless I liked a Honda or Toyota better. We did not make it to those dealerships.

On the way home from the Mazda dealer we passed our local Hyundai and Kia dealership. She wanted to stop for a quick visit to make sure she didn't overlook something that had received several recommendations here. The salesperson came out and said the Kia Telluride would be a 60-90 day wait but she did have one we could drive. DW opted to drive the Hyundai Santa Fe first. She absolutely loved it. I could tell halfway through the test drive that this would be her choice. When we got back to the lot, she didn't even want to look at the Telluride. We got a lot more info about the Santa Fe and she left to consider her choice between the TourX and the Santa Fe. The Santa Fe won out and I don't think it was that close, but I think she would have been happy with either one. I was happy with her choice, but I still would have preferred the CX-5.
jeffyscott wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:29 pm
Murgatroyd wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:23 pm
Hyundai Santa Fe was mentioned. Don’t look past it. Extremely comfortable and quiet.
Agree, we bought one after test driving a dozen or more vehicles, pretty much all the compact CUV/SUVs (exc. Dodge, Jeep, and Mitsubishi) and a just couple of the smaller midsize ones (Outback and Santa Fe). Besides being too big, the Highlander and Pilot were priced above what we wanted to pay (as was the outback, until they were having deals on the outgoing 2019s).

Santa Fe has all the safety stuff and adaptive cruise, I think most of it is included even in based model. We bought the SEL trim and do not have (or want) remote start, but they do have something called blue link that they give you for free for 3 years and via an associated app you supposedly can remote start it.

The one thing we didn't like was the gas mileage, rated 22/29 for FWD. But it has far exceeded that, got around 34-35 on our first long trip.
DW sealed the deal the day before yesterday, but wanted a particular color which they are having to get from another dealership. It has not arrived yet, but the salesperson practically forced DW to drive a new Santa Fe home which she reluctantly did. This is her second full day of driving it, and she is absolutely gushing about it. I have not ridden in it except for the test drive, but DW keeps telling me how quiet it is and how smooth the ride is. Not a hint of buyer's remorse even though she got the Limited version which has far more bells & whistles than I anticipated that she would select.

DW told me last night that she probably would have initially selected the Santa Fe over the Outback if she had been familiar with the Santa Fe. May be cognitive dissonance, but I didn't tell her that! Regardless, she is ecstatic that she found something she loves and she didn't even realize existed. In fact, we didn't know that her top two choices existed. We owe it to you folks. Thanks again!

scooter
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by scooter » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:03 pm

Bought wife a Mazda cx5 touring with all safety features (non turbo) 2018 for 31K

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jeffyscott
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by jeffyscott » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:26 pm

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:41 am
...she is ecstatic that she found something she loves and she didn't even realize existed. In fact, we didn't know that her top two choices existed. We owe it to you folks. Thanks again!
We are happy that we discovered it, too. We had initially bypassed it, thinking it was bigger than we wanted. Our first test drive was actually a different Hyundai and I stood right next to a Santa Fe in the showroom (not really knowing anything about it at the time) and said something about it being too big for us. It was over 6 months later when we went and drove one and then subsequently bought.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

Bir48die
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Bir48die » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:54 pm

I live in the #1 Subaru Outback market in the world. Had one years ago during the years they would blow head gaskets early.

Toyota RAV4 - I love it
Mazda CX-5 - Wife loves it
Honda CRV

Many of the small SUV's are awesome. Those who listed Highlanders add another $15k on the price tag.

TallBoy29er
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by TallBoy29er » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:56 pm

We own a 2019 Forester, and a 2010 Toyota Tundra. Fans of both brands.

For space, the option I didn't see mentioned was a Toyota 4Runner. you could get a 2WD model. They are notoriously reliable. They also look SWEET.

Sounds like the Subaru experience let you down. To your post, move on, don't live w a car that evokes a sour experience.

peace -

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:20 pm

TallBoy29er wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:56 pm
We own a 2019 Forester, and a 2010 Toyota Tundra. Fans of both brands.

For space, the option I didn't see mentioned was a Toyota 4Runner. you could get a 2WD model. They are notoriously reliable. They also look SWEET.

Sounds like the Subaru experience let you down. To your post, move on, don't live w a car that evokes a sour experience.

peace -
Thanks! That precisely describes our feelings.

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Nate79
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by Nate79 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:50 pm

I do not recommend Hyundai. They are well known for poor dealership and not honoring their supposed long warranties. Buyer beware. I've known multiple cases of friends with Hyundai's having to force buybacks and warranties not being honored.

tomd37
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by tomd37 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:38 am

I too looked at the 2019 Hyuandai Santa Fe as a consideration for a new SUV. The two things that turned me off were the all-around visibility from the inside and the spare tire storage outside and under the cargo space. I could only image someone trying to change a tire after several years of exposure to the elements, especially in areas where the roads are treated with something in the winter. :annoyed

I could not get the dealer to get or give me a printed brochure on the Santa Fe line up. Even called the manufacturer and they would not provide one. :x I've had printed brochures for every car I have purchased since 1984 and passed them along to the new owners along with a complete service record printout.
Tom D.

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jeffyscott
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by jeffyscott » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:32 am

tomd37 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:38 am
I too looked at the 2019 Hyuandai Santa Fe as a consideration for a new SUV. The two things that turned me off were the all-around visibility from the inside and the spare tire storage outside and under the cargo space. I could only image someone trying to change a tire after several years of exposure to the elements, especially in areas where the roads are treated with something in the winter. :annoyed

I could not get the dealer to get or give me a printed brochure on the Santa Fe line up. Even called the manufacturer and they would not provide one. :x I've had printed brochures for every car I have purchased since 1984 and passed them along to the new owners along with a complete service record printout.
We had a Windstar with spare tire stored underneath, like the Santa Fe. Owned for 13 years and, while I don't know when the last time I did anything with the spare was, there was never a problem with it. While we have winter weather and salt in WI, the spare is under the center rear, not in a location where it is subject to road spray. The outside storage of the spare makes changing a tire a lot easier, if the cargo area is loaded. Try having a flat tire on the way to Christmas in a car where you have the spare inside, at the bottom of trunk or cargo area and have to unload everything in order to get the spare out (we had that pleasure on a Chicago area tollway, about 100 years ago). In any case, using the spare is pretty rare, the last two cars we had for 12+ years each, never used the spare on one and used it once on the other.

FWIW, my dealer had printed brochures for the 2020 that anyone could take from a rack, not that this was a factor at all in our decision to buy one.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy. - John C. Bogle

F14tuna
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by F14tuna » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:51 am

Mazda CX-5 in Signature trim would be my pick, unless you really need extra room......

dewey
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Re: Alternatives to Subaru Outback?

Post by dewey » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:57 am

The 2020 Ford Escape (not in showrooms quite yet) will be all new from the ground up. New design. New features. It's sounding to be a very nice vehicle in its class.
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