Mensa membership

[Normchad]

The folks that run Mensa are geniuses. This mostly applies to their ability to find people who send them $70/year for basically nothing in return.

They’re clearly in it for the money.

It has an air of exclusivity; but they’ll actually let just about anybody in I’m sure. Otherwise they can’t get the annual fee. (This is reinforced by their willingness to accept ACT scores, etc for membership).

The test is not hard. It does not have any hard questions. Anybody who can take tests quickly will pass. It doesn’t test anything that an eighth grader wouldn’t know.

Having said that, I joined. They got my money. I basically bought a shiny black card for $110 that has no actual use.

So I guess I’m a genius but also a dummy.

[jhawktx]

I was a marginally active member for a few years quite some time ago. It was ok. I might get involved again at some point. Haven't thought about for a while until I saw this thread.

[Candor]

The Giga Society is the place to be but they say it's lonely at the top. Society might be a bit of a stretch.

[goldendad]

Buy a motorcycle. Join a motorcycle club. Probably be more fun!

[bearcub]

Reminds me of the late Jim Morrison of the doors. Had a 142 IQ. Goes to show life can throw you curve balls + wrenches. Miss you Jim. Went to HS with a guy who they said was "slow". Some made fun of him. Today wealthy + owns his own tree trimming + landscaping business. Also a florist shop. Wife + his three kids are college grads. I"m rambling but you just don"t know. For me do they have free food at the Mensa Club?

[oldcomputerguy]

I removed a couple of comments that were trying to go in a political direction. Please keep comments on topic to the original poster's question regarding Mensa membership. -- moderator oldcomputerguy

[Swansea]

I joined back in the 70s. Went to a couple of meetings, but did not find them interesting so I never went back.
The people who attended seemed to take pride at being eccentric.

[William Million]

Classic Kobayashi Maru: If you're foolish enough to pay these clowns so that they certify your high intelligence, you can't be that bright.

In other words:
You fail the intelligence test if you join mensa.
You pass the IQ test if you decline membership.
You ace the test if you become part of the scheme taking other people's money in exchange for certifying the high intelligence of nearly anyone who applies to join.

[Bacchus01]

Had an IQ rest as a kid. Scored 149.

Just wanted to post that

[Smoke]

I just took this test: https://www.mensaiqtest.net/mensatest
It is a fun test. It gave me a high score which makes me suspicious.
Try it yourself.

I wish you had told us to get the results we had to give name and e-mail, I would have skipped it.

[Winston19]

Classic Kobayashi Maru: If you're foolish enough to pay these clowns so that they certify your high intelligence, you can't be that bright.

In other words:
You fail the intelligence test if you join mensa.
You pass the IQ test if you decline membership.
You ace the test if you become part of the scheme taking other people's money in exchange for certifying the high intelligence of nearly anyone who applies to join.

I was thinking more Groucho Marx - I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

[ClevrChico]

A high school classmate was in MENSA. They were a B- student and made F life choices. I've never thought highly of MENSA after that.

Truly smart people don't need to tell anyone they're smart. You just know they're smart.

[Sandtrap]

I know my IQ is not high enough to pass the test, so I don't have any experience. Having said that, it seems to me that it would be like telling someone who lives paycheck to paycheck that you have a few million in the bank. They are not going to like it very much. Most people are not going to like it if you are smarter than they are or if you have more money than they do, especially if you flaunt it. It's just human nature.

It is odd that people here aren't seeing the attraction of Mensa for some people. The further you are from normal, the more you tend to seek out others like yourself because you become very rare in the land of bell-shaped curves especially when you start to get beyond 3 standard deviations from the mean. Bogleheads is a great example. How many threads get started by someone who is seeking out others in a similar situation as they are and want to hear from them?? All the time. Do the multi-millionaires specifically look for advice from other multi-millionaires or the 60 year old with no assets? This is why elite athletes might want to hang out with other elite athletes even if they are in a different sport.....because "they get me". They know to a large extent what I am going through....the training and effort required. It is probably a similar appeal for why some highly intelligent people would be interested in joining Mensa or other even higher IQ societies. They want to join to be around others who are similar to them on an intellectual level.

Good points.
This is a forum focused on MBTI types.
"Personality Cafe"
https://www.personalitycafe.com/forum/
j

[randomguy]

I just took this test: https://www.mensaiqtest.net/mensatest
It is a fun test. It gave me a high score which makes me suspicious.
Try it yourself.

I wish you had told us to get the results we had to give name and e-mail, I would have skipped it.

If your not smart enough to have a spam email for these type of things, you are not mensa material;)

I am sure some people have a great Mensa experience where they meet up some people they click with. But my general experience from talking about other peoples Mensa experience is the odds are against it. You have a better chance to find a smart person at some activity you enjoy doing than finding a mensa person who shares the same hobbies. Maybe if you are in some location with tons of members (say NYC chapter), you can get the best of both worlds.

[Winthorpe]

I took the test and passed, but never joined. My DNA results also say I'm 2.7% Neanderthal. I'm just confused.

But, was passing that test as easy as the time you saved money on your car insurance?

[MNGopher]

The thing about IQ tests is that they only measure a few of the many types of intelligences. There is somewhat of a correlation between IQ tests and academic success, but maybe not as strong as many people think. In my opinion there is not much correlation between IQ and happiness or success in life.

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." -Einstein

[dm200]

Mensa is a lot like most nude beaches. Intriguing in concept. Horrifying in reality.
Cheers!

Never been to a nude beach...

[Cartographer]

IQ is only a very narrow measure of intelligence, and it is poorly correlated with being intellectual. Does being able to identify silly patterns in little diagrams really mean you are capable of a stimulating conversation?

I was invited to a MENSA gathering years ago and was not impressed. Some were interesting people, most seemed pretty normal on the surface, and there were a couple weirdos. Pretty much like any gathering of people...

[jello_nailer]

I would never be a member of a club that had standards so low they would let me in as a member...

Or was it - I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Can't remember.

[abner kravitz]

Mensa is a lot like most nude beaches. Intriguing in concept. Horrifying in reality.
Cheers!

Never been to a nude beach...

I'm sorry to say I have been ONCE. Bionic Bill is correct, it takes a while to unsee some things...

[brianH]

In college, I took the test just to see if I would qualify -- and I did -- but never actually joined. I want to say the test cost me $30 or so back then.

Now, older and wiser, I realize that being a member and active participant in Toastmasters would add far, far more value to your life. Having a high IQ doesn't get you very far if you're overly shy or unable to communicate clearly. I'd be willing to bet that most attendees at a Toastmasters meeting have IQs above average as well.

[yarnandthread]

Does being able to identify silly patterns in little diagrams really mean you are capable of a stimulating conversation?

I was invited to a MENSA gathering years ago and was not impressed. Some were interesting people, most seemed pretty normal on the surface, and there were a couple weirdos. Pretty much like any gathering of people...

Yes, intelligence certainly means one is capable of a stimulating conversation given the right environment. How stimulating do you think conversations for normal people are with persons who are mentally retarded? Probably fairly limited, right? Well people with IQs of 130 and above are as far away from normal as the normal people are from mentally retarded individuals. It gets even more pronounced the higher you go. Humans tend to seek out others like themselves....hence why some people join political organizations, religious organizations, yacht clubs, yoga classes, knitting groups, or high-IQ societies. This should not be surprising to Bogleheads here. Sure, I would imagine a group of Mensa members would have extremely diverse characteristics, beliefs, and traits just like any other gathering of people. Were you expecting to be impressed when you went to the gathering? And if so, what did you expect to be impressed with?

[squirm]

i had a roommate who was a Mensa member. She lived with my wife (girlfriend at the time) while we were in college. She was the weirdest person I've ever known. She always told us how she was a mensa member, personally I thought she was dumb as a rock. If she represents Mensa members, I feel sorry for them. She went nuts one day. Almost had to get the cops to get her evicted. After that we said no more roommates ever.

[sport]

If she represents Mensa members, I feel sorry for them.

No one represents Mensa members. They are a diversified group, just as you might expect. There will be the whole range of occupations from professor to unemployable. There are PhDs, and high school dropouts. There are nice people, and nasty people. There are straight-laced conservative people and wild drunkards. Of course, all religions and political views. They are just people who have been selected based on a test.

[fposte]

If she represents Mensa members, I feel sorry for them.

No one represents Mensa members. They are a diversified group, just as you might expect. There will be the whole range of occupations from professor to unemployable. There are PhDs, and high school dropouts. There are nice people, and nasty people. There are straight-laced conservative people and wild drunkards. Of course, all religions and political views. They are just people who have been selected based on a test.

They're also people who've self-selected to join a club based on that test, though, which is rather more significant. Most people who could qualify for Mensa don't join, either because they don't know about Mensa or don't choose to join. It currently looks like membership is about 50,000 in the U.S. There are 250,000,000 adults in the country; crudely assuming that being the top 2% qualifies you for Mensa, that's 5,000,000 Mensa-eligible people, 4,950,000 of whom aren't in Mensa.

There's an interesting page here with some demographics; of course, local Mensas may vary considerably.

[Cartographer]

Does being able to identify silly patterns in little diagrams really mean you are capable of a stimulating conversation?

I was invited to a MENSA gathering years ago and was not impressed. Some were interesting people, most seemed pretty normal on the surface, and there were a couple weirdos. Pretty much like any gathering of people...

Yes, intelligence certainly means one is capable of a stimulating conversation given the right environment.

As I said before, IQ is one narrow measure of intelligence, and one that doesn't correlate strongly with being intellectual. There are many forms of intelligence, and only some of them imply good conversation.

How stimulating do you think conversations for normal people are with persons who are mentally retarded? Probably fairly limited, right? Well people with IQs of 130 and above are as far away from normal as the normal people are from mentally retarded individuals.

They are as far away in terms of standard deviations, sure, but this isn't a good comparison. Those with IQs two standard deviations below average are considered to have a disability, whereas those two standard deviations above are considered to be within the usual variation.

While research shows that there is supposedly a correlation between academic IQ and social intelligence, it is rather weak. And the correlation breaks down when you get into the stratosphere.

Humans tend to seek out others like themselves....hence why some people join political organizations, religious organizations, yacht clubs, yoga classes, knitting groups, or high-IQ societies.

I'm sure many get something beneficial out of a high-IQ society. But I find that high IQ doesn't mean much in practice when it comes to shared interests (besides perhaps the shared interest of patting yourself on the back for your supposed superiority)

[Normchad]

I don’t think there is anything special about the members of Mensa. Although I’m sure some of them are brilliant and wonderful.

The test is absolutely stupid. You don’t have to be a genius to pass it. And, you can easily pass it with only an eighth grade education. There is no reason to assume that Mensa members are more interesting, or more conversant than any other group of people you might meet.

I like the idea above; go join a club that interests you, you are likely to meet smart, interesting people there.

[Smoke]

I just took this test: https://www.mensaiqtest.net/mensatest
It is a fun test. It gave me a high score which makes me suspicious.
Try it yourself.

I wish you had told us to get the results we had to give name and e-mail, I would have skipped it.

If your not smart enough to have a spam email for these type of things, you are not mensa material;)

I am sure some people have a great Mensa experience where they meet up some people they click with. But my general experience from talking about other peoples Mensa experience is the odds are against it. You have a better chance to find a smart person at some activity you enjoy doing than finding a mensa person who shares the same hobbies. Maybe if you are in some location with tons of members (say NYC chapter), you can get the best of both worlds.

Been having e-mail since 93' no need for a "Spam E-mail" But Smart enough not to fall for this type of gambit.
Perhaps having a "Spam E-mail" is really for those who need the crutch?

[BolderBoy]

I refuse to be a member of any club that would have me.

[Sandtrap]

FWIW: I've known a number of "high IQ" folks, above 160, several at 180+, and a couple at 200+. This was the older ratings. None were interested in Mensa.
j

[IowaFarmWife]

I don't need Mensa, since I've been told many times I'm a genius. As in, "Way to go, genius."

LOL, me too!

Hubby had his IQ tested a few years ago, and he has a 145. Whenever he starts cussing, I tease him that with his high IQ, he could certainly try to come up with some more sophisticated words. He then starts cussing with a British accent, and then asks if that makes him sound more intelligent.

[yarnandthread]

FWIW: I've known a number of "high IQ" folks, above 160, several at 180+, and a couple at 200+. This was the older ratings. None were interested in Mensa.
j

"A couple at 200+"???? Assuming the normal SD of 15, do you realize that the rarity of anyone with that IQ is 1 in 76 billion?? FYI, it is estimated that there have only been 108 billion humans that have every LIVED throughout all of history. And you have known 2! And several at 180 with a rarity of 1 in 20 million to boot. This doesn't make sense, but I am curious about your use of the words "older ratings". I am guessing you are referring to the outdated ratio IQs instead of the more accurate deviation IQs?

I am curious as to how you know these people? Many of these people have likely inflated their numbers by using outdated methods or large standard deviations, didn't take standardized IQ tests, or simply flat out lied to you.

[ks289]

Mensa is not really all that exclusive anyway. Top 2% (or one in fifty people) is an equivalent of ACT 33 or SAT 1500. That is below average at many top universities.

If you have to join somewhere really snobby, the Triple Nine Society accepts top 0.1%, so only one in 1,000 people (or one out of 20 Mensans) would qualify.

I joined TNS many years ago, got a t-shirt that I never wear, and didn't renew my membership past the first year

The test scores which qualify for triple nines also fall in the range you mentioned for Mensa.

http://www.triplenine.org/HowtoJoin/TestScores.aspx
Act 32 or 34 (depending on when it was taken)
Sat 1450 or 1520 (depending on when it was taken)

As you said, these are not mind blowing but certainly high and perhaps average for certain schools and professions.

[andypanda]

"SAT taken prior to 9/30/1974 - 1300"

There you go. Why would anyone want to join a group that would take me?

I qualify on a few others, too. Like the GRE for one. See, I'm a crackerjack test taker. That's not the same as smart. I used to test people for a living as part of a counseling process and job search, etc. This is a test, and only a test, it doesn't measure motivation and perseverance...

[Sandtrap]

FWIW: I've known a number of "high IQ" folks, above 160, several at 180+, and a couple at 200+. This was the older ratings. None were interested in Mensa.
j

"A couple at 200+"???? Assuming the normal SD of 15, do you realize that the rarity of anyone with that IQ is 1 in 76 billion?? FYI, it is estimated that there have only been 108 billion humans that have every LIVED throughout all of history. And you have known 2! And several at 180 with a rarity of 1 in 20 million to boot. This doesn't make sense, but I am curious about your use of the words "older ratings". I am guessing you are referring to the outdated ratio IQs instead of the more accurate deviation IQs?

I am curious as to how you know these people? Many of these people have likely inflated their numbers by using outdated methods or large standard deviations, didn't take standardized IQ tests, or simply flat out lied to you.

Yes. That might be true, too. It was many many decades ago.
I prefer the peace and harmony of being simple minded.

2 are known popular authors of novels, etc. (also multiple PhD's).
1 is a professor, multiple PhD's.
I have no idea how I crossed paths with these folks but it happened. The Mensa numbers were had only by casual conversation and nothing specific. They were all very humble people.
Whether people lie or spin the truth or opine, out of ego, resentment, distrust, envy, cynicism, or other ills, is always an unknown and always subject to happening in any human interaction to some degree or another.

The subject matter is above my pay grade and security clearance, but I thought it was an interesting story to enjoy, FWIW.
Thanks.
j

[andypanda]

The wikipedia entry on IQ classification has some interesting history about classifying genius. Some kids who weren't smart enough on the IQ test to be included in a study went on to win Nobel Prizes.

"By the 1937 second revision of the Stanford–Binet test, Terman no longer used the term "genius" as an IQ classification, nor has any subsequent IQ test.[59][78] In 1939, Wechsler wrote "we are rather hesitant about calling a person a genius on the basis of a single intelligence test score."[79]

The Terman longitudinal study in California eventually provided historical evidence on how genius is related to IQ scores.[80] Many California pupils were recommended for the study by schoolteachers. Two pupils who were tested but rejected for inclusion in the study because of IQ scores too low for the study grew up to be Nobel Prize winners in physics: William Shockley[81][82] and Luis Walter Alvarez.[83][84] Based on the historical findings of the Terman study and on biographical examples such as Richard Feynman, who had an IQ of 125 and went on to win the Nobel Prize in physics and become widely known as a genius,[85][86] the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum IQ, about 125, is strictly necessary for genius, but that IQ is sufficient for development of genius only when combined with the other influences identified by Cox's biographical study: opportunity for talent development along with the characteristics of drive and persistence."

[Vulcan]

Mensa is not really all that exclusive anyway. Top 2% (or one in fifty people) is an equivalent of ACT 33 or SAT 1500. That is below average at many top universities.

If you have to join somewhere really snobby, the Triple Nine Society accepts top 0.1%, so only one in 1,000 people (or one out of 20 Mensans) would qualify.

I joined TNS many years ago, got a t-shirt that I never wear, and didn't renew my membership past the first year

The test scores which qualify for triple nines also fall in the range you mentioned for Mensa.

http://www.triplenine.org/HowtoJoin/TestScores.aspx
Act 32 or 34 (depending on when it was taken)
Sat 1450 or 1520 (depending on when it was taken)

As you said, these are not mind blowing but certainly high and perhaps average for certain schools and professions.

That is very odd indeed. They did not use to accept ACT scores, afair, certainly not this low. Current official 99.9th percentile ACT score is 35, whereas 34 is 99th percentile (wiki).

In terms of IQ, Mensa has a cutoff of approx 130 (2%) whereas TNS is 146 (99.9%).

[yarnandthread]

"By the 1937 second revision of the Stanford–Binet test, Terman no longer used the term "genius" as an IQ classification, nor has any subsequent IQ test.[59][78] In 1939, Wechsler wrote "we are rather hesitant about calling a person a genius on the basis of a single intelligence test score."[79]

the current view of psychologists and other scholars of genius is that a minimum IQ, about 125, is strictly necessary for genius, but that IQ is sufficient for development of genius only when combined with the other influences identified by Cox's biographical study: opportunity for talent development along with the characteristics of drive and persistence."

I agree. Having a high IQ is different than being a genius. Genius requires a production of something that usually makes a meaningful (and usually lasting) contribution to society, and that production can be an invention, art, a philosophy, an idea, etc. Think Tesla, Newton, and Mozart.

You often see the media conflate genius with being in high-IQ societies. Having a high intelligence means you are intellectually gifted....that is the proper term.

[unstartable]

I once sat next to a group of members of the humanist association in a restaurant. They were having a pretty interesting and civil discussion about current world events and other issues. Maybe something like that would be more your speed.

[Booper]

It's interesting that this has come up here now.

I just watched After Porn Ends on Netflix, and one of the adult actresses (Asia Carrera) mentions that she is in Mensa and has an IQ of 156. I became curious if I, too, could make it into Mensa. I looked at their qualifications and based on what I remember my SAT scores being I could qualify. And based on my GRE scores I *might* be able to join the Triple Nine Society. I went as far as to contact ETS to see about getting my official scores but they no longer have them.

Joining those societies might be fun. Some of the most interesting people I've met have also been the most intelligent, and a group like that might lead to lots of interesting conversations. But I don't think I care enough about joining to take an additional test. After taking the GRE I think I really got burnt out on taking standardized tests.

I should also caution people about how to interpret what it means to have an IQ in the "top 2%", which is what I think Mensa aims to do. On the outside, it might seem like everyone "inside" is somehow equally smart, or in the same ballpark. Based on my own experience, nothing could be further than the truth. For example, assuming that Mensa would accept me, they would probably also accept my friend who skipped all of high school and got his PhD in his early 20s. There is a huge chasm between my intellect and his.

When seeing that movie I became interested in what it actually "meant" that Asia Carrera had a 156 IQ. I landed on this page, which basically means she is more intelligent than a random sampling of about 10,600 people. So if she lives in a rural area, she would probably be the smartest person in her town. But if she lived in a small city, she'd probably be one of the smartest people there, but not the smartest.

[bhsince87]

As a child, I was part of a long term IQ tracking study. From about 3rd grade until 12th, I took a test about every 3 months. There were about 40 tests in all. I actually looked forward to doing it.

My "measurement" varied from 132 to 173, and averaged about 150. There were no discernible trends over time.

It took me a few years to conclude that they probably weren't testing "me", but were actually testing the tests.

But to this day, I'm still not sure what exactly it was all about. And I wasn't even allowed to see my own data until I was around 16.

My main takeaway is to take any spot test values with a grain of salt.