Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

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Cyclesafe
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Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am

I am just as excited about my '15 Macan Turbo as ever, but am in the market for another similarly sized vehicle that meets my wife's needs better. It would be replacing a '00 Lexus RX300 that has held up extremely well, but compared to the Macan drives like a boat. We're going out in two days to kick some tires.

Our needs:
[*]Light colored interior AND exterior (greatly prefer this to a sunroof for light)
[*]Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride.
[*]Auto dimming mirrors (wife's migraines)
[*]Lumbar support (wife's back)
[*]Parking sensors (no longer want to drive without them)
[*]Distance pacing cruise control (PAS has saved our bacon more than once)
[*]Blind spot sensor (now a necessity)
[*]>300 hp / > 300 ft-lb torque / 6 cylinders?
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage)

The Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan S: $74,740 MSRP, white/agate only color option. True Car/Edmunds average discounts 5.1% and 4.8%, respectively. ~$71k net
[*]BMW X4 M40i: $69,745, silver/oyster OK. 5.1%/5.2%. ~$66k
[*]MB AMG GLC 43: $64,630, silver/light brown OK. 8.3%/2.5%. ~$61k
[*]BMW X3 M40i: $60,245, silver/oyster OK. 7.9%/5.1%. ~$56k
[*]Volvo XC60 T6 Inscription: $58,990, silver/blond OK. (4 cyl.! 11%/8.8%. ~$53k
[*]BMW X3 sDrive 30i: $47,845, silver/oyster OK. (4 cyl. underpowered). 10.1%/6.4%. ~$44k

Averaging and applying the average discounts amplifies cost differences.

The Non-Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan Turbo: $92,620. Questionable value vs our needs.
[*]Porsche Cayenne: $81,890. Silver / blue-chalk interior yummy (per wife). Too long.
[*]MB GLE 450: $70,340, silver/greige OK. Too long.
[*]Audi SQ5 Premium: $64,690. No light interiors. Might as well go with Macan S.
[*]Audi Q5 Premium: $56,890. No light interiors. Underpowered. Styling too similar to Macan.
[*]Lexus RX 350L: $56,135. No light interiors, too long, underpowered, hideous front grill.
[*]Lexus NX 300L: $44,835. No light interiors, no passenger lumbar support, underpowered, hideous grill.
[*]BMW X1 sDrive 28i: $44,795. Silver/oyster OK. No blind spot sensor. Underpowered.

I'm not sure that the Macan S is worth ~25-30% more than the X3 M40i. Will know (a little) more after the test drive. Thoughts?
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

yogesh
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by yogesh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:56 am

XC60, GLC, X3 would be fine even with v4 Turbo
Q5, SQ5, Macan, Macan S would be same/similar cars

Depreciation on Macan has been lowest in luxury cars
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researcher
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by researcher » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:58 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
I'm not sure that the Macan S is worth ~25-30% more than the X3 M40i. Will know (a little) more after the test drive. Thoughts?
My thoughts are to let your wife test drive the 6 contenders and pick whichever one she likes best.

If she asks for your opinion, you should suggest the Volvo.

Camarillo Brillo
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Camarillo Brillo » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:18 am

We have a 2018 Macan S and absolutely love it as a daily run-about. However, we have taken it on 3 cross country drives and have found that it's just too small for that if there are more than 2 of us in it. We also have an Audi Q7 and prefer that for long drives. Have you considered that?

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RootSki
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by RootSki » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:32 am

Upgrade your Volvo XC60 to the T8 and you’ll have a better 0-60 than a base Macan plus all the niceties like great seats and auto-dimming mirrors, blind spot sensors, 360° camera. 400hp, 475 foot-pounds of torque. I believe 2020MY has a very light gray interior in addition to the blonde.

yogesh
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by yogesh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:49 am

Or wait for Model Y :-) like I have been waiting to sit side to Macan S in the garage!
Add few more things to wife requirements:
- Easy to park or autopark
- Very safe, emergency brakes
- Visibility all around from driver's seat
- Sitting position high enough
- Trunk open/close with ease
- Fold flats, trunk lip flat
- GPS with traffic
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RootSki
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by RootSki » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:59 am

yogesh wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:49 am
Or wait for Model Y :-) like I have been waiting to sit side to Macan S in the garage!
Add few more things to wife requirements:
- Easy to park or autopark
- Very safe, emergency brakes
- Visibility all around from driver's seat
- Sitting position high enough
- Trunk open/close with ease
- Fold flats, trunk lip flat
- GPS with traffic
Yeah the XC60 does all of that too, with massaging seats and Bowers & Wilkins sound 8-)

randomguy
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by randomguy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:21 am

Camarillo Brillo wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:18 am
We have a 2018 Macan S and absolutely love it as a daily run-about. However, we have taken it on 3 cross country drives and have found that it's just too small for that if there are more than 2 of us in it. We also have an Audi Q7 and prefer that for long drives. Have you considered that?
The Q7 (and the like) are all a lot bigger than 188":) If the OP relaxes the HP requirements a bit, things like the RDX might be appealing if you want to max out cargo space but it really isn't in the same class as AMG GLC. It is also like 30k cheaper so everyone will think you cheaped out on the wife's car:) The XT5 has a 300 hp option but I again I am not sure it is really in the same class as high end germans.

How about an Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio with 505 hp and a 3.5s 0-60? Probably wouldn't need to get a 3rd car for the times it is in the shop:) Jaguar and Land Rover also make some cars that meet the HP and status requirements. Get the IPace and you could show up all those cheap people waiting for a Model Y:)

Most of the of 300+ HP compact luxury SUVs have been listed. You need to decide how important performance (we are talking SUVs here. Do you really need car to 0-60s in less than 5s ), comfort (the better your car is on the track, in general the worse it is on the streets at normal speeds. Some cars get around this with the various adaptive systems)), and style (same as comfort. Those 21" tires look good but don't do as good of job on the roads at 18", the sloped rear roofs look good but really cut into cargo space) are to you.

As far as the porsche being worth 30% more? Of course not. But that BMW also isn't worth 25% more than say a Mazda CX5 turbo which probably isn't worth 25% more than a lower trim Mazada CX-5. You are buying luxury goods where desire is more important than value.

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Watty
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Watty » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:30 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
I am just as excited about my '15 Macan Turbo as ever, but am in the market for another similarly sized vehicle that meets my wife's needs better. It would be replacing a '00 Lexus RX300 that has held up extremely well, but compared to the Macan drives like a boat.
If this will mainly be your wifes car then one thing to realize is that your wife may like boats. :D

Be very careful about talking her into the car you would want for yourself.

There are also advantages to having cars that are not too similar since that will give you more flexibility.

If I am not mistaken the RX300 lets the driver ride pretty high and that might be something that you wife really likes so you might consider if that should be on your "must have" list.

Just for brainstorming you might also have your wife test drive a Subaru Forester with a high trim level. The reason that I mentioned it is the Forester is often listed as having some of the best driver visibility and that seems to be related to some of the points that were on your "must have" list. That would also let her be up higher which might be important to her.
Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride.
Be sure to talk with your wife about this. She might really prefer a $40K car with tickets for a $20K vacation in the glove compartment.

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage)


This would be totally impractical in many situation home but in some situations you might be able to move the garage wall back a foot or more for a very reasonable price. For example with have a drive under garage where there is an unfinished basement on the other side of the garage wall. It is not a load bearing wall so moving it would be really straightforward.

3504PIR
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by 3504PIR » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:21 am

We recently traded our 2015 Macan S for a 2018 Macan with the 4 cylinder engine and are very happy. You will save $20k or more by getting the base Macan vs the Macan S. If you were not aware, they now have 3 versions, the Macan, Macan S and Macan turbo. I was confused for a while myself when considering a change,

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am

Porsche 911 GTS is 178.3 inches long. I'd personally look to a GT-3, but for the wife, the GTS is very nice.
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by ssquared87 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:21 pm

Do you need 2 SUVs? Why not take a look at the new BMW 330i and M340i for your wife? You can get oyster (white) or cognac (sort of orangish brown) interior, it’s moderately entertaining to drive, and has very advanced self driving capabilities if you’d like that (you don’t need to keep your hands on the wheel, it has a camera to know whether you’re looking at the road or not).

It offers many benefits over an SUV...better fuel economy, better handling, quieter etc.

Just a thought. You also may want to consider a Mercedes E wagon or a jag XF wagon. If you really want two SUVs, the ones you are considering are great options, although you may want to throw the Alfa Stelvio in there and see how she feels about that

GmanJeff
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by GmanJeff » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:28 pm

BMW X3M or MB GLC 63 AMG. Either will post better numbers than a Macan Turbo, maybe even the newly announced 2020 model which has yet to make an appearance for testing; the Turbo with Performance Package power upgrade has not been announced so it's unclear whether it will even be offered going forward. The Porsche may handle slightly better (TBD) but none of these are track vehicles, and on public roads the differences are likely going to be imperceptible. The BMW (especially the non-competition version) and Mercedes can be had much less expensively than the Macan when similarly equipped.

Volvo and Audi are not competitive withe AMG or M vehicles, although they offer somewhat better handling than a Lexus. Alfa's reputation for poor reliability makes it a risky option, although by all accounts the Stelvio Quadrifoglio offers a level of performance which makes it competitive with the X3M and GLC 63 AMG.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by stoptothink » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:30 pm

GmanJeff wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:28 pm
BMW X3M or MB GLC 63 AMG. Either will post better numbers than a Macan Turbo, maybe even the newly announced 2020 model which has yet to make an appearance for testing; the Turbo with Performance Package power upgrade has not been announced so it's unclear whether it will even be offered going forward. The Porsche may handle slightly better (TBD) but none of these are track vehicles, and on public roads the differences are likely going to be imperceptible. The BMW (especially the non-competition version) and Mercedes can be had much less expensively than the Macan when similarly equipped.

Volvo and Audi are not competitive withe AMG or M vehicles, although they offer somewhat better handling than a Lexus. Alfa's reputation for poor reliability makes it a risky option, although by all accounts the Stelvio Quadrifoglio offers a level of performance which makes it competitive with the X3M and GLC 63 AMG.
Doesn't sound like the OP's wife is really concerned about performance, so not sure how this is particularly relevant.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by GmanJeff » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:50 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:30 pm
]

Doesn't sound like the OP's wife is really concerned about performance, so not sure how this is particularly relevant.
The OP lists a Porsche, a AMG, and higher engine variants of non-M BMWs as vehicles he is considering, with prices reaching to the levels one could expect to pay for those I listed, depending on discounting and options selected. The OP was also critical of the handling offered by his spouse's Lexus, which a reader might reasonably interpret as indicating he is looking for something which will perform better in that regard.

As an aside, complaining about responses which confuse you is unlikely to help the OP.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by ChrisLA » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm

A few months ago I was considering purchasing from a nearly identical list of contenders as Cyclesafe and ended up ordering a Macan S. It shouldn't be hard to get 8% or more off, especially on a car on the lot. Even though the 2019s (which is the exact same car AFAIK) have only been available for maybe half a year, the 2020s have already started arriving so a 2019 can probably readily be had for 10%+ off, especially if you're in a region with multiple dealers.
Last edited by ChrisLA on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Kenkat » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:19 pm

Sounds like you’ve already done a lot of research. Why don’t you let her drive the 6 contenders and let her pick the one she likes the best? The greatest car on paper can be a total fail once you get behind the wheel.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by sambb » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:32 pm

I like the macan s (or gts), or the X3 M40i. All are great to drive. Also the urus is wonderful to drive and would consider it. However, all of these are not very large in the back seat. Some might say to get a MDX in the other direction.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by novemberrain » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:13 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
I am just as excited about my '15 Macan Turbo as ever, but am in the market for another similarly sized vehicle that meets my wife's needs better. It would be replacing a '00 Lexus RX300 that has held up extremely well, but compared to the Macan drives like a boat. We're going out in two days to kick some tires.

Our needs:
[*]Light colored interior AND exterior (greatly prefer this to a sunroof for light)
[*]Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride.
[*]Auto dimming mirrors (wife's migraines)
[*]Lumbar support (wife's back)
[*]Parking sensors (no longer want to drive without them)
[*]Distance pacing cruise control (PAS has saved our bacon more than once)
[*]Blind spot sensor (now a necessity)
[*]>300 hp / > 300 ft-lb torque / 6 cylinders?
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage)

The Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan S: $74,740 MSRP, white/agate only color option. True Car/Edmunds average discounts 5.1% and 4.8%, respectively. ~$71k net
[*]BMW X4 M40i: $69,745, silver/oyster OK. 5.1%/5.2%. ~$66k
[*]MB AMG GLC 43: $64,630, silver/light brown OK. 8.3%/2.5%. ~$61k
[*]BMW X3 M40i: $60,245, silver/oyster OK. 7.9%/5.1%. ~$56k
[*]Volvo XC60 T6 Inscription: $58,990, silver/blond OK. (4 cyl.! 11%/8.8%. ~$53k
[*]BMW X3 sDrive 30i: $47,845, silver/oyster OK. (4 cyl. underpowered). 10.1%/6.4%. ~$44k

Averaging and applying the average discounts amplifies cost differences.

The Non-Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan Turbo: $92,620. Questionable value vs our needs.
[*]Porsche Cayenne: $81,890. Silver / blue-chalk interior yummy (per wife). Too long.
[*]MB GLE 450: $70,340, silver/greige OK. Too long.
[*]Audi SQ5 Premium: $64,690. No light interiors. Might as well go with Macan S.
[*]Audi Q5 Premium: $56,890. No light interiors. Underpowered. Styling too similar to Macan.
[*]Lexus RX 350L: $56,135. No light interiors, too long, underpowered, hideous front grill.
[*]Lexus NX 300L: $44,835. No light interiors, no passenger lumbar support, underpowered, hideous grill.
[*]BMW X1 sDrive 28i: $44,795. Silver/oyster OK. No blind spot sensor. Underpowered.

I'm not sure that the Macan S is worth ~25-30% more than the X3 M40i. Will know (a little) more after the test drive. Thoughts?
I realize you haven't mentioned reliability as a criteria. But if it were a criteria ; and you want to winnow the list, you can take out Audi and Porsche.

MB, BMW and esp Lexus will be more reliable.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Hazel-Rah » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 am

Make sure she gets a chance to drive the Range Rover Velar. It is just one inch longer than your requirement and it is beautiful.

Image

randomguy
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by randomguy » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:48 am

novemberrain wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:13 am


I realize you haven't mentioned reliability as a criteria. But if it were a criteria ; and you want to winnow the list, you can take out Audi and Porsche.

MB, BMW and esp Lexus will be more reliable.
Audi and Porsche have been more reliable than MB for close to a decade now for most of their models. BMW tends to be a bit lower than both of the VW companies but they all swap around a bit (the difference between say 4th and 10th is often <10%) year to year depending on who has release the most new products lately. In the luxury car world, it is really Lexus, most everybody else, and then Jaguar, Volvo and Land Rover bringing up the rear.

randomguy
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by randomguy » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:54 am

Hazel-Rah wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:23 am
Make sure she gets a chance to drive the Range Rover Velar. It is just one inch longer than your requirement and it is beautiful.

Image
And what is the 3rd car you get to drive for when it is in the shop?:) The caranddriver long term test wasn't exactly encouraging.:) They do really standout in the sea of crossovers though while nobody notices a Macan or X3.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by lazydavid » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:42 am

randomguy wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:21 am
How about an Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio with 505 hp and a 3.5s 0-60?
This was going to be my suggestion. Very different than the Macan, and the sweetest-sounding engine in any SUV save perhaps the Lamborghini Urus.

I take it the Jaguar F-Pace/Range Rover Velar are too big? Otherwise those could be options as well.

Of the ones you listed, the Macan S would be my choice if you didn't already have a Macan Turbo. Since you do, I'd go with the X3 M40i.
ChrisLA wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm
A few months ago I was considering purchasing from a nearly identical list of contenders as Cyclesafe and ended up ordering a Macan S. It shouldn't be hard to get 8% or more off, especially on a car on the lot. Even though the 2019s (which is the exact same car AFAIK) have only been available for maybe half a year, the 2020s have already started arriving so a 2019 can probably readily be had for 10%+ off, especially if you're in a region with multiple dealers.
This is a good point. The Macan is currently the second most overstocked vehicle, behind only the Wrangler. I think something like 17.5% of the Macans currently on dealer lots are 2018 models. So there definitely should be some deals out there.

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Watty
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Watty » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:47 am

When looking at the reliability be sure to consider that they kept their prior Lexus '00 for 19 years. Many reliability rating a based on a much shorter time frame.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by yogesh » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am

OP - What you ended up buying/deciding?
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Cyclesafe
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Thanks to all who have responded. I take your comments very seriously.

I'm considering a hybrid while there still are subsidies, but we use so little electricity from the grid now that solar panels have seemed silly. For us, getting a plug-in hybrid also means going solar. Having said this, our daily routine is less than 20 miles and I would sure enjoy the torque. Casually looking at the XC60 T8 and the Cayenne Hybrid.

Reliability, a newly realized #1 need, has not been established for the Stelvio and according to JD Powers, Consumer Reports, and US New and World Report, Rover and Volvo are on the bottom of the pile. Still considering the XC60, however.

Thanks for the reminder from some that I should let my wife pick her car. The only trouble is that she has delegated this task to me....

Oh, and we relaxed the length constraint by moving some junk around.

yogesh wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:32 am
OP - What you ended up buying/deciding?
Still working hard....
Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
Our needs:
[*]Light colored interior AND exterior (greatly prefer this to a sunroof for light)
[*]Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride. (I'm driving a 2015 Macan Turbo.)
[*]Auto dimming mirrors (wife's migraines)
[*]Lumbar support (wife's back)
[*]Parking sensors (no longer want to drive without them)
[*]Distance pacing cruise control (PAS has saved our bacon more than once)
[*]Blind spot sensor (now a necessity)
[*]>300 hp / > 300 ft-lb torque / 6 cylinders?
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage) Found more space.

The Original Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan S: $71,710 MSRP, white/agate only color option. True Car/Edmunds average discounts 5.1% and 4.8%, respectively. (No need for a test drive, but we need to consider some potentially funky color combinations.)
[*]BMW X4 M40i: $69,745, silver/oyster OK. 5.1%/5.2%. X3 M40i has more usable cargo space.
[*]MB AMG GLC 43: $64,630, silver/light brown OK. 8.3%/2.5%. Nothing compelling vis a vis the competition. No longer made in Europe.
[*]BMW X3 M40i: $63,145, silver/oyster OK. 7.9%/5.1%. Practical with brilliant handling. Premium seats not a good as premium Porsche or premium Volvo.
[*]Volvo XC60 T6 Inscription: $59,190, silver/blond OK. 11%/8.8%. Still a contender, but concerned about 4 cylinder, overall reliability, and too many gadgets that we will pay for but never use. Handling not nearly as good as Porsche or BMW.
[*]BMW X3 sDrive 30i: $47,845, silver/oyster OK. (4 cyl. underpowered). 10.1%/6.4%. X3 M40i is more of a driver's car.

Additional Contenders: (Will test from tomorrow.)
[*]Porsche Cayenne: $79,690. 5.3%/1.3% Silver / blue-chalk interior yummy (per wife). Too long.
[*]Audi Q5 2.0 Premium: $56,890. No light interiors. Underpowered. Styling too similar to Macan. Should take another look.
[*]Audi Q7 3.0 Premium: $75,940. Because a Boglehead suggested it.
[*]BMW X5 3.0: $67,545. Because the X3 M40i drove so well.....
As a result of detailed discussions after DW realized that we were actually buying a new car for HER, we defined and somewhat reordered our priorities:
  1. Long term reliability
  2. Comfortable seats
  3. Practicality (DW's definition)
  4. Driveability (My definition)
  5. Simplicity (Minimal gadgets, especially those we pay for and forget we have.)
  6. Stealthiness (A preference to not be targeted by the haters.)
  7. Color schemes.
  8. Price (As long as we perceive commensurate value for more money spent.)
  9. Manufacturing location
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RootSki
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by RootSki » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:21 pm

What are your 4 cylinder concerns with the XC60 T8. I own one since June.

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Cyclesafe
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:50 pm

RootSki wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:21 pm
What are your 4 cylinder concerns with the XC60 T8. I own one since June.
With the T8's electric motor greatly assisting overcoming stationary inertia, there would be no issue. With the non-hybrid models, however, I am concerned that we are asking 4 cylinders to do quite a lot to propel in a somewhat spirited manner a 4000+ pound vehicle for 20 years. Now, I know I am also showing my age/experience/biases with the 4 cylinder engines of the '60's and '70's, when I swore an oath to myself that I would never again buy anything less than 6. But I am nevertheless still considering the XC60 T6 and Audi Q5 2.0. I'll probably also give the X3 2.0 another less cursory fresh look when I visit the BMW dealer again this week.
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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by NoGambleNoFuture » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:45 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am
Porsche 911 GTS is 178.3 inches long. I'd personally look to a GT-3, but for the wife, the GTS is very nice.
:sharebeer

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by jello_nailer » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:57 pm

My Macan is a 4 banger.
Absolutely effective in city, 32+ on hwy, 625 miles per tank. Unfortunately premium 93 oct. Can't have everything I guess.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by randomguy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:03 pm

Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:33 pm


Reliability, a newly realized #1 need, has not been established for the Stelvio and according to JD Powers, Consumer Reports, and US New and World Report, Rover and Volvo are on the bottom of the pile. Still considering the XC60, however.

I would willing to be a pretty decent amount that the Stelvio is going to have horrible reliability. See every other car from the brand and family of brands:)

If you are really expecting 20 years out of our next car, get a Lexus. It is the only one with remotely the long term (10+ years not those 3or 5 year surveys) reliability history. I would take my chances on BMW, Audi, and Porsche for 10 years but I am not sure I would bet on them when the odometer crosses 150k. Volvo is sort of interesting in that most of their problems have been teething issues. There is a chance most of those are fixed in the 3rd model year.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by fatmike91 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:49 pm

I'm rather surprised the 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 isn't on your (her) list. I don't own one, but it seems to check all the boxes.

/

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:44 pm

jello_nailer wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:57 pm
My Macan is a 4 banger.
Absolutely effective in city, 32+ on hwy, 625 miles per tank. Unfortunately premium 93 oct. Can't have everything I guess.
I had a base loaner when I had my own Turbo serviced. A fine car for sure, but when it's optioned up there's not much more money needed (percentage wise) for an S. The same can be said when choosing between an S and a Turbo. Ask me how I know....
randomguy wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:03 pm
If you are really expecting 20 years out of our next car, get a Lexus. It is the only one with remotely the long term (10+ years not those 3or 5 year surveys) reliability history. I would take my chances on BMW, Audi, and Porsche for 10 years but I am not sure I would bet on them when the odometer crosses 150k. Volvo is sort of interesting in that most of their problems have been teething issues. There is a chance most of those are fixed in the 3rd model year.

My wife is letting go of her 2000 Lexus RX with 85k miles. We don't drive much, so we ought to expect a car to last a very long time.

This vehicle was our 4th Lexus. All of them have been unbelievably reliable and cheap to maintain. Only routine maintenance. With all the money we have saved over the years with the Lexuses, we feel we can afford to blow some of it for what will probably be our last car. DW and I think the new Lexus models are hideous.
fatmike91 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:49 pm
I'm rather surprised the 2020 Mercedes GLE 450 isn't on your (her) list. I don't own one, but it seems to check all the boxes.
Actually, we did consider it, but at the time we thought it too large. Now that we have relaxed that constraint, the GLE 450 deserves another look. The available color combinations are better (for us) than those available on the AMG GLC 43. Thank you for the reminder.
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by ohai » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:53 am

Hi, OP. Although your selections are all SUVs, none of your criteria specifically address why you need an SUV over a non SUV vehicle.

For your price range, I urge you to also consider Mercedes CLS/E Class, which is the best luxury midsize car at the moment. You will also help contribute to market diversity and help fight the unnecessary proliferation of SUVs on US roads.

Lexus ES is another good choice within this segment. This model tends to be snubbed by some people, as it shares a platform with Toyota Avalon. However, these people are unnecessarily brand conscious and overlook the car's attention to detail, quality, and value for content.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 am

ohai wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:53 am
Hi, OP. Although your selections are all SUVs, none of your criteria specifically address why you need an SUV over a non SUV vehicle.

For your price range, I urge you to also consider Mercedes CLS/E Class, which is the best luxury midsize car at the moment. You will also help contribute to market diversity and help fight the unnecessary proliferation of SUVs on US roads.

Lexus ES is another good choice within this segment. This model tends to be snubbed by some people, as it shares a platform with Toyota Avalon. However, these people are unnecessarily brand conscious and overlook the car's attention to detail, quality, and value for content.
Wife wants an SUV. Why? Dunno, her call. Maybe it's because it's in fashion (for the past 20 years) and she likes to brag about how much she can haul with it. Better visibility, easier egress/ingress, moment of inertia defense against other vehicles also come to mind.

I've owned three Lexus ES's (one branded a Windom). Super reliable vehicles, but Lexus styling has IMHO completely lost its way.
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by researcher » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:51 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:44 pm
This vehicle was our 4th Lexus. All of them have been unbelievably reliable and cheap to maintain. Only routine maintenance. With all the money we have saved over the years with the Lexuses, we feel we can afford to blow some of it for what will probably be our last car. DW and I think the new Lexus models are hideous.
This statement seems to be at odds with most of your wife's stated priorities...
1. Long term reliability
2. Comfortable seats
3. Practicality (DW's definition)
4. Simplicity (Minimal gadgets, especially those we pay for and forget we have.)
5. Stealthiness (A preference to not be targeted by the haters.)
7. Price (As long as we perceive commensurate value for more money spent.)


You want a simple, practical, reliable, under-the-radar SUV that is sensibly priced.
These priorities are a clear indication you should buy another Lexus, as no other car on your list checks these boxes.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by edge » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:10 pm

f-pace S?

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by ohai » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:12 pm

"With all the money we have saved over the years with the Lexuses, we feel we can afford to blow some of it for what will probably be our last car."

Jesus. I just read this. I hope that's not the case, but you know what, I changed my mind... Please get whatever car you want. Ferrari, Bentley, whatever.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by RootSki » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:50 pm
RootSki wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:21 pm
What are your 4 cylinder concerns with the XC60 T8. I own one since June.
With the T8's electric motor greatly assisting overcoming stationary inertia, there would be no issue. With the non-hybrid models, however, I am concerned that we are asking 4 cylinders to do quite a lot to propel in a somewhat spirited manner a 4000+ pound vehicle for 20 years. Now, I know I am also showing my age/experience/biases with the 4 cylinder engines of the '60's and '70's, when I swore an oath to myself that I would never again buy anything less than 6. But I am nevertheless still considering the XC60 T6 and Audi Q5 2.0. I'll probably also give the X3 2.0 another less cursory fresh look when I visit the BMW dealer again this week.
Well the Drive-e power plant in the XC60 has been in production since MY2015.5. Volvo was a pioneer in forced induction and has been building high power/small displacement engines for a long time. I’ve driven so many T5’s (real 5 pots sound great) and T6’s but bought my T8 without ever driving one. I really thought I was going to miss the short inline six from my last XC60 T6 3.0, but the truth is I find the 2.0 T6 way more fun to drive. Turbo lag is almost nonexistent in the T6 and with the T8 its gone completely.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:33 pm

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
I am just as excited about my '15 Macan Turbo as ever, but am in the market for another similarly sized vehicle that meets my wife's needs better. It would be replacing a '00 Lexus RX300 that has held up extremely well, but compared to the Macan drives like a boat. We're going out in two days to kick some tires.

Our needs:
[*]Light colored interior AND exterior (greatly prefer this to a sunroof for light)
[*]Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride.
[*]Auto dimming mirrors (wife's migraines)
[*]Lumbar support (wife's back)
[*]Parking sensors (no longer want to drive without them)
[*]Distance pacing cruise control (PAS has saved our bacon more than once)
[*]Blind spot sensor (now a necessity)
[*]>300 hp / > 300 ft-lb torque / 6 cylinders?
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage)

The Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan S: $74,740 MSRP, white/agate only color option. True Car/Edmunds average discounts 5.1% and 4.8%, respectively. ~$71k net
[*]BMW X4 M40i: $69,745, silver/oyster OK. 5.1%/5.2%. ~$66k
[*]MB AMG GLC 43: $64,630, silver/light brown OK. 8.3%/2.5%. ~$61k
[*]BMW X3 M40i: $60,245, silver/oyster OK. 7.9%/5.1%. ~$56k
[*]Volvo XC60 T6 Inscription: $58,990, silver/blond OK. (4 cyl.! 11%/8.8%. ~$53k
[*]BMW X3 sDrive 30i: $47,845, silver/oyster OK. (4 cyl. underpowered). 10.1%/6.4%. ~$44k

Averaging and applying the average discounts amplifies cost differences.

The Non-Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan Turbo: $92,620. Questionable value vs our needs.
[*]Porsche Cayenne: $81,890. Silver / blue-chalk interior yummy (per wife). Too long.
[*]MB GLE 450: $70,340, silver/greige OK. Too long.
[*]Audi SQ5 Premium: $64,690. No light interiors. Might as well go with Macan S.
[*]Audi Q5 Premium: $56,890. No light interiors. Underpowered. Styling too similar to Macan.
[*]Lexus RX 350L: $56,135. No light interiors, too long, underpowered, hideous front grill.
[*]Lexus NX 300L: $44,835. No light interiors, no passenger lumbar support, underpowered, hideous grill.
[*]BMW X1 sDrive 28i: $44,795. Silver/oyster OK. No blind spot sensor. Underpowered.

I'm not sure that the Macan S is worth ~25-30% more than the X3 M40i. Will know (a little) more after the test drive. Thoughts?
Macan S. Hands down. Easy choice.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by FoolStreet » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:19 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:43 am
I am just as excited about my '15 Macan Turbo as ever, but am in the market for another similarly sized vehicle that meets my wife's needs better. It would be replacing a '00 Lexus RX300 that has held up extremely well, but compared to the Macan drives like a boat. We're going out in two days to kick some tires.

Our needs:
[*]Light colored interior AND exterior (greatly prefer this to a sunroof for light)
[*]Either a Macan or something very different than a Macan. Nothing so similar that it would look like we cheapened out on the wife's ride.
[*]Auto dimming mirrors (wife's migraines)
[*]Lumbar support (wife's back)
[*]Parking sensors (no longer want to drive without them)
[*]Distance pacing cruise control (PAS has saved our bacon more than once)
[*]Blind spot sensor (now a necessity)
[*]>300 hp / > 300 ft-lb torque / 6 cylinders?
[*]Exterior length < 188" (needs to fit comfortably in garage)

The Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan S: $74,740 MSRP, white/agate only color option. True Car/Edmunds average discounts 5.1% and 4.8%, respectively. ~$71k net
[*]BMW X4 M40i: $69,745, silver/oyster OK. 5.1%/5.2%. ~$66k
[*]MB AMG GLC 43: $64,630, silver/light brown OK. 8.3%/2.5%. ~$61k
[*]BMW X3 M40i: $60,245, silver/oyster OK. 7.9%/5.1%. ~$56k
[*]Volvo XC60 T6 Inscription: $58,990, silver/blond OK. (4 cyl.! 11%/8.8%. ~$53k
[*]BMW X3 sDrive 30i: $47,845, silver/oyster OK. (4 cyl. underpowered). 10.1%/6.4%. ~$44k

Averaging and applying the average discounts amplifies cost differences.

The Non-Contenders:
[*]Porsche Macan Turbo: $92,620. Questionable value vs our needs.
[*]Porsche Cayenne: $81,890. Silver / blue-chalk interior yummy (per wife). Too long.
[*]MB GLE 450: $70,340, silver/greige OK. Too long.
[*]Audi SQ5 Premium: $64,690. No light interiors. Might as well go with Macan S.
[*]Audi Q5 Premium: $56,890. No light interiors. Underpowered. Styling too similar to Macan.
[*]Lexus RX 350L: $56,135. No light interiors, too long, underpowered, hideous front grill.
[*]Lexus NX 300L: $44,835. No light interiors, no passenger lumbar support, underpowered, hideous grill.
[*]BMW X1 sDrive 28i: $44,795. Silver/oyster OK. No blind spot sensor. Underpowered.

I'm not sure that the Macan S is worth ~25-30% more than the X3 M40i. Will know (a little) more after the test drive. Thoughts?
Definitely check out the Tesla Model Y. My friend bought a Macan and really wishes she would have bought a Tesla. It is supposed to be out next year. Best performer of the bunch, I’m sure, if the Model 3 is any comparison.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 pm

researcher wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:51 am
Cyclesafe wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:44 pm
This vehicle was our 4th Lexus. All of them have been unbelievably reliable and cheap to maintain. Only routine maintenance. With all the money we have saved over the years with the Lexuses, we feel we can afford to blow some of it for what will probably be our last car. DW and I think the new Lexus models are hideous.
This statement seems to be at odds with most of your wife's stated priorities...
1. Long term reliability
2. Comfortable seats
3. Practicality (DW's definition)
4. Simplicity (Minimal gadgets, especially those we pay for and forget we have.)
5. Stealthiness (A preference to not be targeted by the haters.)
7. Price (As long as we perceive commensurate value for more money spent.)


You want a simple, practical, reliable, under-the-radar SUV that is sensibly priced.
These priorities are a clear indication you should buy another Lexus, as no other car on your list checks these boxes.
But you left off the actual #4 in my post "Driveability (My definition)" and then renumbered the priorities from "simplicity" onwards.

The driveability of every car we looked at - even Volvo - was far superior to the new Lexus NX and RX. Reliable? Of course. So is Porsche. Comfortable seats? Not so great. Especially Volvo, but also Porsche (14-ways) were better. Practicality? Yes, but so are all the others. And I'll say it again. The front grills of the new Lexuses are ugly.
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by BruDude » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:30 pm

Porsche, there is no substitute.

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And the winner is.......

Post by Cyclesafe » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:33 pm

Macan S.

Placing order tomorrow for January delivery.

Reliability - up there with Lexus.
Comfortable seats - up there with the Volvo XC60 Inscription T6
Practicality - third to the X3 M40i and XC60
Drivability - better than the X3 M40i
Simplicity - better than the X3 M40i
Stealthiness - worst of the lot, but also a lower priority than above
Color Schemes - third to the XC60 and X3 M40i
Price - fourth to the Audi Q5, XC60, and X3 M40i

We eliminated manufacturing location as a criterium since systems for most cars are sourced globally and robots operate pretty much the same way everywhere.

We test-drove the Cayenne when we were at the Porsche dealership and decided it was too large for our needs. This allowed us to stop bothering further about the X5, Q7, Q8, and GLE.

Our overall second choice was the X3 M40i which at an optioned and discounted $61k was cheaper than the Macan S at $69k, same basis. Better SUV utility and stealthiness, however, did not overcome relative shortcomings in comfort and drivability. If price is very important, the X3 M40i deserves a good look.

Third (in our opinion) was the XC60 Inscription T6, which, at an optioned and discounted $55k can be had at the lowest price of the vehicles we considered. Seat comfort and interior were tops, but there were too many gadgets to break down and a 4 cylinder, flailed with both a turbocharger AND a supercharger (T6 trim), begs to fail if not assisted by the electric motor found in the T8 package. This is opinion from a casual car guy, certainly not an expert, but reliability ratings by JD Power and Consumer Reports are not favorable. However, I would like to point out that many Bogelheads are fiercely loyal to the Volvo brand. And there is good news on the tariff front: assembly for XC60's destined for the US has been moved from China back to Sweden!

I know that for some these threads are boring. But with lousy expected investment returns, getting the most for our money is more important than ever. Everyone has a different priority of needs and price isn't always on top. But we ALL seek value for money.

Thank you for your responses and I hope this thread helps others looking to buy a premium compact SUV.
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by researcher » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 pm
But you left off the actual #4 in my post "Driveability (My definition)" and then renumbered the priorities from "simplicity" onwards.
Note I said it was at odds with "MOST" of your wife's stated priorities, which were the ones I included.

And the Macan does seem like an odd choice given these priorities.
By your own admission, the Macan falls well behind the other contenders in many areas...
Reliability - Your list stated "LONG TERM" reliability. What data suggests Porsche is at parity to Lexus long term?
Practicality - Definitely not practical.
Simplicity - Definitely not simple.
Stealthiness - Definitely not stealthy.
Price - Definitely not comparatively well-priced.

Comfortable Seats and Driveability are the only two areas the Macan is in the top tier of vehicles from your list.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by randomguy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:53 am

researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
Cyclesafe wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 pm
But you left off the actual #4 in my post "Driveability (My definition)" and then renumbered the priorities from "simplicity" onwards.
Note I said it was at odds with "MOST" of your wife's stated priorities, which were the ones I included.

And the Macan does seem like an odd choice given these priorities.
By your own admission, the Macan falls well behind the other contenders in many areas...
Reliability - Your list stated "LONG TERM" reliability. What data suggests Porsche is at parity to Lexus long term?
Practicality - Definitely not practical.
Simplicity - Definitely not simple.
Stealthiness - Definitely not stealthy.
Price - Definitely not comparatively well-priced.

Comfortable Seats and Driveability are the only two areas the Macan is in the top tier of vehicles from your list.
The priorities listed are rarely the ones that matter. People buy what they want to buy and then come up with the justifications for it. Any one who says they want a reliable luxury car and ends up with something other than a Lexus is an optimist:) I think the Macan is a solid choice. No it isn't stealthy, cheap, simple and so on. But you know you like the seats (I assume she has been in your enough) which is by far the hardest things in a car to evaluated. Something that is comfortable for a 20 min test drive can cause issued after a 2 hour drive.

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:10 am

researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
Cyclesafe wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 pm
But you left off the actual #4 in my post "Driveability (My definition)" and then renumbered the priorities from "simplicity" onwards.
Note I said it was at odds with "MOST" of your wife's stated priorities, which were the ones I included.

And the Macan does seem like an odd choice given these priorities.
By your own admission, the Macan falls well behind the other contenders in many areas...
Reliability - Your list stated "LONG TERM" reliability. What data suggests Porsche is at parity to Lexus long term?
Practicality - Definitely not practical.
Simplicity - Definitely not simple.
Stealthiness - Definitely not stealthy.
Price - Definitely not comparatively well-priced.

Comfortable Seats and Driveability are the only two areas the Macan is in the top tier of vehicles from your list.
Needs were prioritized. For example, Drivability was ranked well above price and only modestly below practicality. You left out one of the four main factors to be considered. Lexus got negative points here. IOW's we'll pay for drivability.

Reliability - No argument here. No long term reliability data available since the Macan first came out only in 2014/5. Furthermore, the current models have altogether different engines and other stuff as well. But so does Lexus..... I will concede for sure that Lexus, as a brand, has a better reputation for reliability than Porsche as a brand. But the latter's reputation has been dragged down by the brand's sportscars whose emphasis on extreme performance always consciously trumped emphasis on day-to-day reliability. IMHO, Lexus is tops for reliability, but the current offerings are still ugly.

Practicality - My wife maintains that the Macan S is practical enough and its other, more favorable characteristics, trump any modest shortfall in this area. For example, she can fold down the rear seat backs manually from each of the rear passenger doors and slide the front seats forward to accommodate the rear seat headrests. A hassle, but she only needs to drop the rear seats like 10 times a year. The XC60 allows one to drop the rear seat backs and flip down the rear seat headrests all by pushing a button at the rear of the vehicle. Very cool, but the much better drivability of the Macan S (albeit a lower priority) trumps the admittedly better (and slightly higher priority) of the XC60's (Inscription trim)' practicality.

Simplicity - Compared to the XC60 T6 Inscription (with the advanced and luxury packages, that get the desired active cruise control / blind sport detection and comfy seats, respectively), the Macan S is comparatively simple.

Stealthiness - For sure the SUV Porsches are the least stealthy of the bunch and they got negative points here. But this characteristic was a lower priority than the other characteristics.

Price - Sure the Q5 and the XC60 were cheaper than the Macan S, but so are many, many other reliable and practical fully-qualified compact SUV's.

So, Researcher, based on your own priorities, weighted the way you see them, the Macan S is an odd choice. The challenge in recommending a vehicle for another person, however, is to view alternatives from the point of view of the one who is consuming it. For example in this quest, my first step was to fully understand what and how much of it my wife wanted and to be flexible with this understanding as reality bit. After gathering all the information for all viable alternatives, then test driving many of them, the Macan S was her clear choice. I will say that we're gonna choke when we sign the contract today, but then we will remember that despite feeling the same way in April 2015 when we signed on to our Macan Turbo, we made an excellent decision.

BTW, if she had a time machine, my wife would go back to 2000 and buy a second Lexus RX300 (with its cassette deck) and put it in storage for use now. Even the $7k check we are anticipating for the sale of the existing 2000 RX (85 k miles and still almost brand new looking; per similar year and generally much higher mileage examples on Auto Trader) will not keep her from mourning the loss of "the best car she has ever owned".
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by Cyclesafe » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:20 am

randomguy wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:53 am
researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
Cyclesafe wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 pm
But you left off the actual #4 in my post "Driveability (My definition)" and then renumbered the priorities from "simplicity" onwards.
Note I said it was at odds with "MOST" of your wife's stated priorities, which were the ones I included.

And the Macan does seem like an odd choice given these priorities.
By your own admission, the Macan falls well behind the other contenders in many areas...
Reliability - Your list stated "LONG TERM" reliability. What data suggests Porsche is at parity to Lexus long term?
Practicality - Definitely not practical.
Simplicity - Definitely not simple.
Stealthiness - Definitely not stealthy.
Price - Definitely not comparatively well-priced.

Comfortable Seats and Driveability are the only two areas the Macan is in the top tier of vehicles from your list.
The priorities listed are rarely the ones that matter. People buy what they want to buy and then come up with the justifications for it. Any one who says they want a reliable luxury car and ends up with something other than a Lexus is an optimist:) I think the Macan is a solid choice. No it isn't stealthy, cheap, simple and so on. But you know you like the seats (I assume she has been in your enough) which is by far the hardest things in a car to evaluated. Something that is comfortable for a 20 min test drive can cause issued after a 2 hour drive.
This is so true. We found ourselves juggling the weighting of our priorities until they matched our own subjective rankings. Pretty funny actually. But ultimately very satisfying, in that one can better justify what is a truly awful decision if one were just considering the financials. If my wife hadn't gagged when she saw the front grill of the Lexus NX, she'd be driving one now. (The current NX is more akin in size to the year 2000 RX)
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” - Dwight Eisenhower

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Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by researcher » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:46 am

Cyclesafe wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:20 am
We found ourselves juggling the weighting of our priorities until they matched our own subjective rankings. ... If my wife hadn't gagged when she saw the front grill of the Lexus NX, she'd be driving one now.

BTW, if she had a time machine, my wife would go back to 2000 and buy a second Lexus RX300 and put it in storage for use now… will not keep her from mourning the loss of "the best car she has ever owned"
You've perfectly summed up the point I was trying to make in my earlier posts.
Given the list of needs and priorities you posted previously, the Macan would not have risen to the top.
But those needs/priorities later changed to meet your own subjective wants.
Ultimately, Styling/Looks became a highly important but unlisted priority.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 1954
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Help With New Car Purchase - Macan S versus...

Post by WhiteMaxima » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:23 pm

Don't rule our Lexus RX350 and Acura MDX. German car parts and labor are not very BH. Lexus can be serviced at any Toyota dealer using Toyota parts.

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