Is this 25% savings?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
squirm
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by squirm » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:17 am

Calico wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:33 am
To answer someone's question, we aren't a fortune 500 or publicly traded. We are actually a local trade association/non profit. We don't have an accounting department, although there is an accountant on staff. Unfortunately, he's on vacation this week. I am sure once I point out the hypothetical 100% savings this will all be fixed. Thanks for confirming that I am not crazy on this. It was just weird the way others insisted.
That happens at my work too. Usually when one of the higher ups agrees with something even if it's incorrect or flat out wrong, the lower peons do the pile on agreement.

BogleMelon
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by BogleMelon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am

When we say "Discount", the denominator becomes the old higher price. When we say "Pay more" the denominator becomes the lower price.
160 is 20% of 200
paying 200 instead of 160 means paying 25% more
It depends on what is the initial point we are comparing to.
Since the initial point in the Ad here will be the full price, then yes, it is 20% discount.

The formula is: (New-old)/old

Person A is 170 pounds. Person B is 340 pounds
Person A weighs 50% of person B (20% discount)
Person B weighs 100% of person A (25% pay more)
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

FrugalInLove
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by FrugalInLove » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:07 pm

To win your argument, just tell everybody that the early-bird price is $2. After XX date the price goes up to $200. So you save 1000% by registering early! A savings of 1000%!

This is the math as $160 with 25% that your wonderful coworkers are so fond of, just different numbers plugged into the equation.

dboeger1
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by dboeger1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:18 pm

lazydavid wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:36 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:48 pm
joe-kr wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:35 pm
muffins14 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:16 pm

Imagine the sale price was $100 instead of $160; you wouldn’t advertise it as 100% savings just because the original price is 100% more than the sale price of $100
I think above is the best explanation for the math challenged folks. Let them chew on that example.
I am going to use Muffins14 hypothetical 100% savings example. I think I may even just casually mention it to everyone before the meeting with the boss, just in case it ends the meeting before it starts (allowing people to save face). I don't want to embarrass people in a group setting in front of the boss.

What I am embarrassed about is that they were all so convinced they were right and they were the majority that I started to doubt myself. :shock:
Go even farther. Let's say you had a special promotion where select customers were charged only $50. This is obviously a 300% discount, right?
Go even farther. Let's say you had a special promotion where select customers were charged only $0. This is obviously a... *HEAD EXPLODES*

crossbow
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by crossbow » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:37 pm

OP please update us on how the meeting went :happy

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Calico
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by Calico » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm

crossbow wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:37 pm
OP please update us on how the meeting went :happy
The meeting never happened. I decided to go to each member of the team individually and explained the 100% savings based on their math. They all had an "ah ha" moment and got it then. I didn't get a chance to talk to one person though, so I don't think she got it unless someone else explained it. Next thing I know, the meeting is called off. I think they figured it out.

I just didn't like the idea of embarrassing everyone in a group. I felt that one-on-one would make things a little more "friendly."

Thanks to the people of this forum for the idea to explain it simply! :)

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:57 pm

It's the intersection of innumeracy and lying.
PJW

tesuzuki2002
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:05 pm

CoastalWinds wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:45 pm
Why not call the retail price $300 and then say it’s a savings of 46% off?

I buy based on price, not how much I “save”.
:sharebeer

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am
Person A is 170 pounds. Person B is 340 pounds
Person A weighs 50% of person B (20% discount)
Person B weighs 100% of person A (25% pay more)
Wouldn’t Person B actually weigh 200% of Person A, or 100% MORE THAN Person A? Weighing 100% of Person A would mean they weigh the same amount. Also, Person B may have some long-term health concerns. . .

BogleMelon
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by BogleMelon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am
Person A is 170 pounds. Person B is 340 pounds
Person A weighs 50% of person B (20% discount)
Person B weighs 100% of person A (25% pay more)
Wouldn’t Person B actually weigh 200% of Person A, or 100% MORE THAN Person A? Weighing 100% of Person A would mean they weigh the same amount. Also, Person B may have some long-term health concerns. . .
An increase of 100% means that the final amount is 200% of the initial amount (100% of initial + 100% of increase = 200% of initial)
A $2 item will increase 100% next month, the new price is going to be....?
1. $2
2. $4
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

student
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by student » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:22 pm

I am late to responding. I wonder how they want to advertise this: Regular price $200. Early bird $100.

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:45 am

BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:11 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 am
Person A is 170 pounds. Person B is 340 pounds
Person A weighs 50% of person B (20% discount)
Person B weighs 100% of person A (25% pay more)
Wouldn’t Person B actually weigh 200% of Person A, or 100% MORE THAN Person A? Weighing 100% of Person A would mean they weigh the same amount. Also, Person B may have some long-term health concerns. . .
An increase of 100% means that the final amount is 200% of the initial amount (100% of initial + 100% of increase = 200% of initial)
A $2 item will increase 100% next month, the new price is going to be....?
1. $2
2. $4
Clearly $4. The originally quoted text was not stated as a 100% INCREASE, but rather appeared to be 100% of an initial value, which I would interpret as no change from the initial value. I understand the math, but the phrasing is critically important when dealing with percentages.

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nisiprius
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:49 am

I still think a good authority for "the right way to do it" is the actual calculations made by any calculator--standalone, or calculator app in a smartphone. Simply observe the result of keying in a series of operations like

2 0 0 - 2 0 % =

The "official" meaning of percent is built into them and it can be "observed" without having to interpret written descriptions.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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nisiprius
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by nisiprius » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:50 am

Calico wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
crossbow wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:37 pm
OP please update us on how the meeting went :happy
The meeting never happened. I decided to go to each member of the team individually and explained the 100% savings based on their math. They all had an "ah ha" moment and got it then. I didn't get a chance to talk to one person though, so I don't think she got it unless someone else explained it. Next thing I know, the meeting is called off. I think they figured it out.

I just didn't like the idea of embarrassing everyone in a group. I felt that one-on-one would make things a little more "friendly."

Thanks to the people of this forum for the idea to explain it simply! :)
Well done.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

coupleofcents
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by coupleofcents » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:16 am

dbr wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:53 am
coupleofcents wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:44 am
Just change the rate to $150.00 so marketing can keep their 25% savings language.

40 dollars off doesn't work as well I think because people don't have an anchor point if this is there first time paying for this product/service.

Btw, I personally don't find 20 or 25% off anything that enticing.
But that would be savings of 33 1/3%, which is also a number that sounds good. When you print that 1/3 it makes the customer think they are paying 1/3 the full price.
ha! Well played.

bigdav160
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by bigdav160 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:10 pm

dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am
Another approach would be to state that the price will go up 25% from the early bird rate to the regular rate.
That's exactly what I was going to say. "Act Now! prices go up 25% by [date]"

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JupiterJones
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by JupiterJones » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:58 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:19 pm
Don't know why, but this reminds me of my wife's reaction when she sees an ad that say "Now only .45₵". As she sees it, 0.45 cents is less than a penny!
She's right, of course. And now I bet I'm going to start noticing that.

Sort of along the same lines, it always amuses me when things are advertised as being "a fraction of the cost of [fill in the blank]". Since any number can be expressed as a fraction (including values greater than one), you could make that claim about anything and still be mathematically truthful.

Salesman: "This Lamborghini sells for a fraction of what a Honda costs"

Customer: "Um... really?"

Salesman: "Yup! Of course, that fraction is 10/1, but still..."
Stay on target...

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greg24
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Re: Is this 25% savings?

Post by greg24 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:10 pm

Calico wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
I just didn't like the idea of embarrassing everyone in a group. I felt that one-on-one would make things a little more "friendly."
Well played, sir.

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