Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

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snackdog
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Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by snackdog » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am

The city of Berkeley has enacted a ban on gas appliances in new homes in order to reduce carbon emissions. That means the stove, hot water, furnace and clothes dryer all need to run on electricity (unless someone has a better idea). Induction stoves seem good. Electric tankless water heaters aren't bad. I have no idea about furnaces and bad experiences with electric dryers. Would be great to reduce our carbon footprint. Has anyone done this? Any tips or advice?

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by neilpilot » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:08 am

I’ve used an induction cook top, but have never heard of an “induction stove”.

Will Berkeley also restrict construction of new garages that can store autos? Last I looked the electric utility there was only 47% carbon free, so even electric appliances and ev autos have a carbon footprint.

daheld
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by daheld » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:23 am

This is insane and something that makes me happy to live in flyover country.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by sschullo » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:35 am

Just the grill and heating the house.
Solar, electric cars and electric kitchen.
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Jags4186 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:39 am

That’s really insane as gas is much cheaper than electricity where I am. I’d much rather have everything run on gas that electricity.

My only caveat to this is that we barely ever use our gas oven and much prefer to use our electric toaster oven to cook our food. It heats up to temperature in about 3 minutes or less vs. 20 minutes or so with the oven. I can’t imagine it is less fuel efficient even running on electricity.

Also, having dried towels in an electric dryer vs a gas dryer....never again.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:49 am

[off-topic comment removed by moderator prudent]

Electric ovens are really fine; they keep temperature well.

ETA: not in CA, but to answer the thread title, this year I have:
- gotten rid of propane pool heater using air sourced heat pump
- gotten rid of oil furnace using geothermal
- replaced oil fired hot water heater with electric
- replaced propane fired clothes dryer with electric

I don’t miss the stink of oil.
Last edited by TomatoTomahto on Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by prudent » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:02 am

Let's keep replies focused on the OP's question about changing to electric appliances. Comments about climate change are off-topic by forum policy.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:06 am

We have a partial mix of gas and electric utilites that keeps our overall utility bill quite low.

3 furnaces/HVAC cooling > gas and electric (one for each floor)
Water heater > gas
Stove top grill > gas
Dryer > electric

For gas, there's a 1000 gallon tank outside in the ground.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by wolf359 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:29 am

I'm not worried about having a gas appliance. You have a better impact on the environment by minimizing your overall carbon footprint and general energy usage. Insulation and reducing wastage has a more significant effect. I also mostly use it for browning (primary cooking is through sous vide or insulated pressure cookers.)

In addition, a gas stove lets me cook during a power outage and brownouts. Either that, or I'm firing up a grill using propane or coal, both of which are even worse than natural gas.

Using electricity to generate heat is much more expensive than gas heaters. It's better to have some energy diversity. If it's a year when electricity is cheaper than natural gas, you can always run an electric space heater.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by strafe » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:38 am

I don't think you'll miss gas for any of those appliances.
Induction stoves are great. Much safer than regular electric (cooktop stays cool, no burns) or gas (fire).
Bay Area has the perfect climate for a heat pump.

Now, if you are serious about cutting your carbon footprint rather than aesthetics, you should not eat meat.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by H-Town » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:38 am

snackdog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am
The city of Berkeley has enacted a ban on gas appliances in new homes in order to reduce carbon emissions. That means the stove, hot water, furnace and clothes dryer all need to run on electricity (unless someone has a better idea). Induction stoves seem good. Electric tankless water heaters aren't bad. I have no idea about furnaces and bad experiences with electric dryers. Would be great to reduce our carbon footprint. Has anyone done this? Any tips or advice?
Would the new law affect only new homes? Why would you want to replace things that not broken? I doubt that it would give you a financial benefit since you have to invest the cash outlay up front to buy electric appliances. Also, gas is still dirt cheap and it burns efficiently.

I prefer gas stove over electric. I prefer gas dryer over electric version. I had bad experience with electric water heater many years ago, but I think newer version is much better.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by JackoC » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:48 am

snackdog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am
1. The city of Berkeley has enacted a ban on gas appliances in new homes in order to reduce carbon emissions.

2. Would be great to reduce our carbon footprint.

3. Has anyone done this?
1. The ban is on new gas hookups for new multi-family buildings. Other places esp in CA might consider this, but it's not actually a requirement to replace gas appliances.

2. Not necessarily, depends where the electricity comes from and if that source is a fossil fuel powered heat engine*, it's much less thermally efficient to use electricity for resistance heating than to burn gas for heat (as in a stove, clothes dryer or hot water heater) Electric home heat could be a heat pump, where the efficiency of electric is higher than for resistance heating, depending on outside temp. Also depends your assumptions about methane (a more potent though shorter lived greenhouse gas than CO2) leakage from gas pipes.

3. I can't see any reason to, even in Berkeley. Not if the gas appliance has useful life remaining. When it needs to be replaced it's possible even other municipalities will eventually require electric ones, at least for projects like kitchen remodeling that require construction permits. But electric in most cases is more expensive to operate, and given the questions about it lowering carbon footprint, depending on electricity source, I would probably just go with the most economical solution when replacing appliances in the absence of any prohibition on gas ones.

*Even the most efficient gas fired combined cycle gas/steam turbine electric power plants lose almost 1/2 the energy in the nat gas up the stack, typical ones more than 1/2. Then there are resistance losses in power lines and transformers. In case of burning gas locally you might make use of up to 100% of the heat (if say you're cooking and it's cold out and it allows you to turn down the heat a little because the stove is on). Electric appliances only beat gas ones on green house gas emissions if the mix of electricity sources is quite low carbon, though also helped if you assume there's a lot of leakage of methane (another greenhouse gas) from gas pipes into homes.
Last edited by JackoC on Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by lthenderson » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:50 am

H-Town wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:38 am
snackdog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am
The city of Berkeley has enacted a ban on gas appliances in new homes in order to reduce carbon emissions. That means the stove, hot water, furnace and clothes dryer all need to run on electricity (unless someone has a better idea). Induction stoves seem good. Electric tankless water heaters aren't bad. I have no idea about furnaces and bad experiences with electric dryers. Would be great to reduce our carbon footprint. Has anyone done this? Any tips or advice?
Would the new law affect only new homes? Why would you want to replace things that not broken? I doubt that it would give you a financial benefit since you have to invest the cash outlay up front to buy electric appliances. Also, gas is still dirt cheap and it burns efficiently.
Yes according to the NPR report, it is only for new builds. Since 44% of California's energy comes from non-renewable sources, I'm guessing this will put a real strain on the electrical grid out there. I like being able to still heat my home and cook when the power goes out.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by FireSekr » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:58 am

If your current appliances are working fine, then you’re doing more environmental harm by needlessly replacing them with new appliances. The energy impact of manufacturing and transporting the new appliances are greater than the energy/emission savings the new electric appliances will save over their lifetime.

For new construction I can see this making a very small impact, but it sounds like Berkeley is going off the deep end wasting time on trivial issues when the city is faced with many more serious problems (crime, homelessness etc). No idea what’s wrong with the city council but it sounds like a mess.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by montanagirl » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:03 am

I actually regret removing the electric baseboard heaters and installing gas forced air 17 years ago. They just needed to be vacuumed out. At least they were quiet. I hate the furnace going off and on all the time, though we did get A/C out of it.

But I was so sure the future was gas... :annoyed

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Tamarind » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:06 am

Not getting rid of functioning appliances, as that also contributes to waste. However, we will be doing a reno in the next couple of years and will look for electric options for all our upgrades and won't be adding new gas appliances - currently we only use gas for our HVAC (gaspack) which came with the house. I was really pleased to see that there are electric tankless water heaters. Does anyone have one and can share what their experience has been?

I grew up in a home with an electric heat pump and they are just fine for areas that do not often have harsh winter temperatures. Gas driers are pretty unusual in my area. The electric ones work great and you also have the option of condensing driers which collect some gray water for houseplants.

The only thing we would really not be able to replace would be a gas fireplace, as the electric ones are very silly to my eyes. However, that's a luxury, and there are quite good electric options for all the must-have appliances.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by sjt » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:11 am

I don't have a gas line to the house - so everything is electric. This is common in the area. The only gripe I have, is cooking on the electric range. A gas flame seemed to be easier to use
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by stoptothink » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:13 am

daheld wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:23 am
This is insane and something that makes me happy to live in flyover country.
+1

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by TN_Boy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:15 am

snackdog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am
The city of Berkeley has enacted a ban on gas appliances in new homes in order to reduce carbon emissions. That means the stove, hot water, furnace and clothes dryer all need to run on electricity (unless someone has a better idea). Induction stoves seem good. Electric tankless water heaters aren't bad. I have no idea about furnaces and bad experiences with electric dryers. Would be great to reduce our carbon footprint. Has anyone done this? Any tips or advice?
I'll sidestep the carbon footprint reduction need, and just try to mostly ease your fears about non-gas appliances:

1) I prefer electric smooth top over gas stove. I grew up with electric stoves. We also have a small under the sink instant hot water heater in the kitchen. Turn on the stove burner, fill a pot with water from the instant hot, and you'll have boiling water almost as quickly as with a gas stove.

2) I've never had a gas dryer, only electric. They seem to work absolutely fine, so not sure of your concern.

3) I've had both electric and gas hot water (non-instant) heaters. No functional difference to me.

4) For heating the house, I've found gas furnaces do a better job than heat pumps.

I certainly wouldn't throw out working gas appliances and replace with electric unless I had to.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by myleaf » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:18 am

I have a free standing range with induction elements. It works well. The model I have is similar to :

Kenmore Elite 95073 6.1 cu. ft. Freestanding Induction Range w/ True Convection - Stainless Steel
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:24 am

Over the decades, I have had both gas and electric appliances of these three types: stove, water heater and clothes dryer.

If you already have any such gas appliances, then I would just keep using them - and replace them with gas when they need to be replaced. If you have gas available, then I would even consider switching to gas.

In general, I believe (depends on local details) gas is less expensive than electric.

For "usability" - my opinions -

Stoves and ovens - people have strong opinions - usually leaning towards gas. My experience, though, is that electric is fine. Maybe electric might be a tad safer - who knows? The gas vs electric choice/debate often resembles a "religious" type debate! For example, even though there is no natural gas service there, when my brother and sister-in-law build their house about 30 years ago, my sister-in-law wanted a gas stove/oven so much that they got a propane tank installed instead of just going electric. I don't know how the cost of propane for the stove/oven compares with an equivalent electric stove.

Clothes dryer - for usability - about the same - cannot recall any differences. BUT - gas is generally lower cost

Water heater - Gas water heaters recover more quickly than electric. So, other things being equal, you may need a larger capacity water heater if electric than gas. Again, gas is generally lower cost.

If you switch from gas to electric - especially the stove/oven - you might need to increase the electrical capacity and you will need to have 220 v service for the stove.

If this "anti-gas" initiative is strong (sounds like it is), then I would wonder if the costs of gas might be pushed up?

For home heating, depending on how you switch (heat pump, baseboard resistance, etc.) I suspect costs will go up with electric. Even though there is natural gas available in our house, our home is heated by an oil burning boiler with radiators. We have gas water heater and gas dryer - but an electric stove (all from when we bought the house). Depending on all details, we may very well switch to gas home heating and a gas stove/oven.

Even if you stay with gas appliances, in that environment, I would map out a plan for possible eventual movement to electric.

Another issue I would research is whether the choice of gas vs electric appliances might affect the resale demand, value, etc. of houses in the future.

I sure hope our local jurisdiction does not get that same idea! Another issue for me to watch for!!

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:26 am

3) I've had both electric and gas hot water (non-instant) heaters. No functional difference to me.
As I posted previously, the recovery rate of electric water heaters is slower than gas - so you may want/need a larger capacity one if you go electric.

No experience with "tankless" electric water heaters, but if you go electric, I would stick with the regular non-instant tank version.

If this were some other jurisdiction, I would have also suggested that this might change in the future - but I really doubt it there. :oops:

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Texanbybirth » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:33 am

stoptothink wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:13 am
daheld wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:23 am
This is insane and something that makes me happy to live in flyover country.
+1
+2
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by fareastwarriors » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:41 am

How do I Wok it out without gas? hmmm

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by brianH » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:46 am

strafe wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:38 am
I don't think you'll miss gas for any of those appliances.
Induction stoves are great. Much safer than regular electric (cooktop stays cool, no burns) or gas (fire).
Bay Area has the perfect climate for a heat pump.

Now, if you are serious about cutting your carbon footprint rather than aesthetics, you should not eat meat.
I disagree with the final sentence of this comment, but the rest is dead-on. Many professional chefs now prefer modern induction for the control and speed, but they still are very much a premium-price option. Hopefully this changes, because the efficiency, and the fact that you're not putting harmful combustion byproducts into your home are huge wins.

I would also add that a heat pump water heater in a warmer climate is also a great choice. They can be cheaper to run than even the more efficient condensing gas units, though this depends on local gas vs. electricity rates. I was under the impression that Northern California had relatively high electric rates, which probably means converting from gas -> electric heating/cooking/dryers will be more expensive.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:51 am

Berkeley is just plain weird. A while back there were road signs saying that it was a non-nuclear city. It's the only city I know that seems to have a foreign policy.

But no, if I lived there, I would not undertake an unnecessary replacement because of what I believe is a misguided policy. You can have my gas stove when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Big Dog » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 am

That’s really insane as gas is much cheaper than electricity where I am. I’d much rather have everything run on gas that electricity.
Gas is much cheaper in California, too (where Berkeley is). Moreover, the state has approved going to ToU pricing as of next fall, so electric rates will increase ~50% from 4-9 p.m. (when presumably, one wants to cook dinner on an electric range/oven). This new Berkeley law will impact lower income folks the hardest. Induction cooktops are expensive!

All electric is probably ok for those with solar....

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Kenkat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:59 am

Are properly working gas appliances really a significant contributor to carbon emissions? Around here they are replacing the coal fired power plants with natural gas fired ones. I am not sure I get burning natural gas to generate heat which then generates electricity which is then turned back into heat - unless a power plant can burn natural gas way more cleanly than appliances. Maybe it can, I honestly don’t know the answer to that.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:01 am

Big Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 am
That’s really insane as gas is much cheaper than electricity where I am. I’d much rather have everything run on gas that electricity.
Gas is much cheaper in California, too (where Berkeley is). Moreover, the state has approved going to ToU pricing as of next fall, so electric rates will increase ~50% from 4-9 p.m. (when presumably, one wants to cook dinner on an electric range/oven). This new Berkeley law will impact lower income folks the hardest. Induction cooktops are expensive!
All electric is probably ok for those with solar....
What about the regular electric stoves that have variable temperature controls? As I recall, when we had one of those, it was just fine.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by bertilak » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:20 am

I like to say we are "cooking with gas!" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cooking_with_gas)

We also heat and dry clothes with gas.
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by mattshwink » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:20 am

No, we went the opposite way three years ago. The house (short sale) we bought had a 50 gallon water heater (replace with gas tankless), two gas log fireplaces (replaced with gas fireplaces as they were 30 years old) , replaced the 30" electric cooktop with a 36" gas range, and replaced the furnace. The tankless water heater is incredibly efficient (and the range doesn't add much either, cooking 3-4 times a week); from May-October (when the heat doesn't run) we typically pay more in connection fees/taxes then we do for actual gas. This past winter, when we had a cold snap in the single digits for a week (didn't get above freezing during the day, either) I know people who had electric bills that month approaching $500. My gas bill never went above $200. We are also thinking of putting in a gas firepit and an outdoor gas grill, possibly this fall.

Going from (smoothtop) electric to a gas range was an amazing change for someone who cooks. Electric turns on and off, gas is a steady heat, which I find much easier to work with.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:26 am

While there is certainly movement in generating electricity from "renewable" resources, such as solar and wind, I believe a significant part of electricity comes from burning coal, oil and natural gas. While nuclear is not from such sources, there are still concerns about it from a safety point of view.

Upon thinking about this "anti-gas" issue, I notice that our locality is making a big deal about powering vehicles (such as buses) with natural gas. On similar types of "carbon footprint" and environmental issues - overwhelmingly our local government officials and politicians have similar views to those in Berkeley.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by Woodshark » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:37 am

Am I getting rid of my gas appliances? No. I prefer to cook on gas and just purchased a new gas range last week.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:40 am

Woodshark wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:37 am
Am I getting rid of my gas appliances? No. I prefer to cook on gas and just purchased a new gas range last week.
A very, very common conclusion - especially among those who do a lot of cooking and many types and styles of cooking.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by cherijoh » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:44 am

neilpilot wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:08 am
I’ve used an induction cook top, but have never heard of an “induction stove”.
Some people use stove to mean "cook top" exclusively and oven for the baking/broiling part. (Especially if they have a separate wall oven).

Or they could be confusing "convection" and "induction".

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by fareastwarriors » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:48 am

Big Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 am
That’s really insane as gas is much cheaper than electricity where I am. I’d much rather have everything run on gas that electricity.
Gas is much cheaper in California, too (where Berkeley is). Moreover, the state has approved going to ToU pricing as of next fall, so electric rates will increase ~50% from 4-9 p.m. (when presumably, one wants to cook dinner on an electric range/oven). This new Berkeley law will impact lower income folks the hardest. Induction cooktops are expensive!

All electric is probably ok for those with solar....

Really? PG&E electricity is so expensive is already...
sigh.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by sunny_socal » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:50 am

daheld wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:23 am
This is insane and something that makes me happy to live in flyover country.
It is indeed insane. Using a fuel directly (eg natural gas) is the most efficient approach. Going to electricity along the way incurs loss at every step of the conversion and transmission.

I will never give up my gas appliances and I'm happy to live outside CA.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by chw » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:52 am

Installed a heat pump with a new central air compressor this year. Plan to use the heat pump to partially offset the use of our gas furnace. Plan to use the gas furnace only in the colder heating months from a comfort and cost standpoint.

Planning a kitchen remodel in the near future, and are planning to retain the all electric range, and look into an induction stove top. We aren’t fearful of using gas- simply trying to limit CO2 emissions by using reasonably good electric alternatives as the solar panels on our home are fully covering our annual electric needs.

DW and I feel reducing our carbon footprint will be helpful to the generations that follow us.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by mervinj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:53 am

Big Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 am
That’s really insane as gas is much cheaper than electricity where I am. I’d much rather have everything run on gas that electricity.
Gas is much cheaper in California, too (where Berkeley is). Moreover, the state has approved going to ToU pricing as of next fall, so electric rates will increase ~50% from 4-9 p.m. (when presumably, one wants to cook dinner on an electric range/oven). This new Berkeley law will impact lower income folks the hardest. Induction cooktops are expensive!

All electric is probably ok for those with solar....
Berkeley law limiting gas appliances impacts new housing only. Solar is also a required feature on new housing as well.
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/06/67407503 ... new-houses

We will replacing gas water heater and gas furnace with electric ones when they need to be replaced but no earlier. We will not be replacing our gas stovetop with an electric one until we are convinced that induction will work for our cooking style. Since we recently installed solar panels and got an EV, our plan to go as carbon-neutral as possible over the next 5-7 years.

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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by brianH » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:57 am

Kenkat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:59 am
Are properly working gas appliances really a significant contributor to carbon emissions?
Not really, but one hugely underestimated and under-reported issue is the problem of methane (natural gas is primarily methane) leaks in end-use equipment, infrastructure and pipelines. This is actually a bigger issue than the CO2 emissions, because methane is 25x as potent as CO2 as a greenhouse gas. This is why you hear the 'eat less meat' refrain, because domestic livestock contributes to methane gas emissions, though this is dwarfed by the emissions caused by that natural gas processing and distribution.

https://grist.org/article/natural-gas-l ... e-thought/

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:00 am

My friends who cook a lot are telling me an induction stove is the best they’ve cooked on. I’m not ready to get rid of my propane cooktop, but found an inexpensive induction single “burner” on Amazon for simmering sauces. My propane cooktop really didn’t do simmer well, it would overheat the sauce.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

adamthesmythe
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by adamthesmythe » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:02 am

dm200 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:40 am
Woodshark wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:37 am
Am I getting rid of my gas appliances? No. I prefer to cook on gas and just purchased a new gas range last week.
A very, very common conclusion - especially among those who do a lot of cooking and many types and styles of cooking.
It does get a bit more complicated. I bought a dual-fuel range- it turns out that electric is thought to be superior for the oven because of better temperature control. For the range, of course, gas is better.

I replaced an electric hot water heater with gas (mostly energy cost) and I have an electric dryer (it just seems crazy to me to dry flammable items with gas).

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dm200
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by dm200 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:06 am

brianH wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:57 am
Kenkat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:59 am
Are properly working gas appliances really a significant contributor to carbon emissions?
Not really, but one hugely underestimated and under-reported issue is the problem of methane (natural gas is primarily methane) leaks in end-use equipment, infrastructure and pipelines. This is actually a bigger issue than the CO2 emissions, because methane is 25x as potent as CO2 as a greenhouse gas. This is why you hear the 'eat less meat' refrain, because domestic livestock contributes to methane gas emissions, though this is dwarfed by the emissions caused by that natural gas processing and distribution.
https://grist.org/article/natural-gas-l ... e-thought/
Regarding the "eating meat" issue:

- Cattle (whether beef or dairy) produce a lot of methane
- Cattle manure is a source of pollution
- Some cattle production results in deforestation
- Both directly (from cattle themselves) and indirectly (from producing cattle feed) - a significant amount of water is used in producing meat, as well as milk.

So, I believe there is significant and credible evidence that "eating meat" has net negative environment affects.

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prudent
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Re: Are you getting rid of your gas appliances?

Post by prudent » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:21 am

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