Long Island NY housing

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nydoc
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Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:21 pm

Hi everyone,

Would like your opinion about housing in Long Island, NY. Anyone has insights about these locations- Garden City, Manhasset and Great Neck? Would love to hear about schools, taxes, commute from NYC, crime and diversity. We have searched many Internet forums but trust the opinion of bogleheads the most.
Thank you.

WS1
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by WS1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:42 pm

messaged you

Outafter20
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Outafter20 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:21 pm

I grew up in that area and went to high school in Manhasset. I currently live on the south shore of Nassau County.

The areas you mentioned are still good but super expensive. The LIRR from Manhasset and Great Neck is quick to NYC.

PM me is you have any specific questions.

WS1
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by WS1 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:29 pm

Outafter20 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:21 pm
I grew up in that area and went to high school in Manhasset. I currently live on the south shore of Nassau County.

The areas you mentioned are still good but super expensive. The LIRR from Manhasset and Great Neck is quick to NYC.

PM me is you have any specific questions.
Best username ever!

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tennisplyr
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by tennisplyr » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:03 pm

Lived on the north shore of LI in Nassau for over 35 years and liked it (since retired to LCOL). Great places to live--communities, schools, etc all top rate and NYC is just 35" away. That said, real estate prices and property taxes are through the roof but all-in-all worth it as you will see equity appreciate nicely.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

Good Listener
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Good Listener » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:59 pm

I would tread with caution. Prices are extremely high and taxes are unbelievably high. There is increasing crime in Long Island and although not yet in Great Neck for example, it is in Hempstead. Just do a search of crime and gangs in Hempstead Long Island. I won't say anymore.

a_movable_life
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by a_movable_life » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:49 pm

My Mother, Sister, BIL, his whole extended family, my cousins on my Father's side, and a large group of my friends live there. I grew up in Western Suffolk. I moved out years ago for a variety of reasons. I wish my Sister and BIL moved off the island since for them the housing costs and some of their decisions have limited their options. I turned down a great full time NP/APN position in Nassau County because of housing costs.

Your handle is NYDoc and you are on Bogleheads. I'm going to assume you are an MD.

NY income tax is generally more generous for deductions than NJ Income tax. 403b's are deductible as a non-profit employee unlike NJ.

Property taxes in NY are high. All three towns you mentioned have excellent school districts. You will be competing with Old Money, Wall Street Money, and other Doctors and executives. If you live outside of NYC you don't pay the NYC income tax.

It's a beautiful area. Unlike NJ, CT, and Upstate NY you can only go East on Long Island, that should keep prices up.

Commutes can be brutal. There are three main roads that go East-West on the whole island. You will be along the Northern State Parkway. If you plan on doing a train commute many of the stations have limited parking and a wait list for a permit, or it's first come first serve, or your partner has to pick you up and drop you off. With an MD schedule this is something to consider.

As far as diversity, Long Island is really bad at that. https://www.brickunderground.com/live/l ... egregation Maybe it's changed from when I grew up but I doubt it.

Best of luck to you.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Shallowpockets » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:27 am

I grew up there. Don't live there now. L.I. Is a geographical trap. Only way out is through the metropolitan area. Essentially your world is L.I. Has some pockets of interest, but you wear those out. It is a small world, but those there probably think they live in the only world. A lot of them end up in Florida in the later years. Go to Islip airport, watch the lines of wheel chairs ready to board the SW flights to Fl.
Lots of good food. Beaches good too. Too confining for me.
Taxes, ugh.

a_movable_life
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by a_movable_life » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:33 am

Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:27 am
I grew up there. Don't live there now. L.I. Is a geographical trap. Only way out is through the metropolitan area. Essentially your world is L.I. Has some pockets of interest, but you wear those out. It is a small world, but those there probably think they live in the only world. A lot of them end up in Florida in the later years. Go to Islip airport, watch the lines of wheel chairs ready to board the SW flights to Fl.
Lots of good food. Beaches good too. Too confining for me.
Taxes, ugh.
I haven't visited in a long time because of that. When I lived in NJ I would drive home to get to the GWB and Cross Bronx at midnight on Friday, and I'd be at my Mom's at 1AM. Only hit a little traffic in Queens. During other times it could take me 3-5 hours to get the 40 miles from NJ to my Mother's. Then at 6AM-7AM on Sunday I would leave to head back and do the reverse trip.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by smitcat » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:40 am

nydoc wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:21 pm
Hi everyone,

Would like your opinion about housing in Long Island, NY. Anyone has insights about these locations- Garden City, Manhasset and Great Neck? Would love to hear about schools, taxes, commute from NYC, crime and diversity. We have searched many Internet forums but trust the opinion of bogleheads the most.
Thank you.
These are generalities but the exact street and area within those towns will have 'pockets' that differ:
All those locations are excellent with most of their schools.
Taxes in each are very high.
Commute by rail is equivalent but the closer of the home to any rail station and the center of the island will make it easier.
Crime is very low in each , but again the exact street and area can modify these answers a bit.
For the most part diversity is lacking in those 3 areas.

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nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:10 am

Thanks for all your replies. I am an MD and work in Brooklyn Queens area. These three towns have the best school district in westernmost LI. LIRR from great neck does not go to the place where I work. Garden City LIRR is very close to my work place in Brooklyn. NYC income tax is a big reason to avoid eastern Queens neighborhoods like Bayside, Glen Oaks etc. We are Indians by origin. Will that be an issue in Garden City? Also, is there any difference between school districts among these three towns?
Thanks again.

WS1
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by WS1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:47 am

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:10 am
Thanks for all your replies. I am an MD and work in Brooklyn Queens area. These three towns have the best school district in westernmost LI. LIRR from great neck does not go to the place where I work. Garden City LIRR is very close to my work place in Brooklyn. NYC income tax is a big reason to avoid eastern Queens neighborhoods like Bayside, Glen Oaks etc. We are Indians by origin. Will that be an issue in Garden City? Also, is there any difference between school districts among these three towns?
Thanks again.
The north shore school districts have a reputation for being intense, but if you’re commuting to brooklyn on the LIRR forever it’s kind of a mute point.

I like that Garden City has a few main street areas and it’s probably the type of place where 10-13 yr olds have the run of the village. Check the train schedules to make sure you won’t have a long wait in Jamaica and maybe call the village to see what the parking permit situation is.

Other things to consider
Driving off the island sucks. It really deters me from doing some things I’d enjoy in the hudson valley/western NJ.
What about Rockville Centre?
I don’t know how many folks of Indian heritage live in these communities, but it’s not like you’d be that far from know enclaves if all your looking for is a little distance.

SovereignInvestor
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by SovereignInvestor » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:11 am

The local LI papers keep saying how real estate in those areas that am have more expensive houses are under pressure due to SALT cap. Those on north shore generally have higher incomes where SALT cap stings more and at the same time those houses have higher property taxes so the burden of tax increased. It seems like house prices are in process of adjusting where cheaper low taxed hokes get bid up as more expensive homes come under pressure.

If it is not adusted yet then that may be a risk. Otherwise those are great neighborhoods.

Nassau Resident here.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by retire2022 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:33 am

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:10 am
Thanks for all your replies. I am an MD and work in Brooklyn Queens area. These three towns have the best school district in westernmost LI. LIRR from great neck does not go to the place where I work. Garden City LIRR is very close to my work place in Brooklyn. NYC income tax is a big reason to avoid eastern Queens neighborhoods like Bayside, Glen Oaks etc. We are Indians by origin. Will that be an issue in Garden City? Also, is there any difference between school districts among these three towns?
Thanks again.
OP

The reason why suburban school districts have high property taxes is because the property owners pays for the school district, in the five boros of NYC, the property taxes are structured differently and NYC property taxes are lower because collectively real estate taxes do not pay directly to school.

You are better living in Queens, even though that is not in your radar. Have you consider Woodhaven? Forrest Hills?

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nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am

Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.

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tennisplyr
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by tennisplyr » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.

Realize that the areas you mentioned are more suburban (get more property) than Queens which is very densely populated...many attached homes, high rise apartments, retail, parking issues.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:19 am

Overall Garden City seems the best for our needs. It’s just that on many forums people show concern about homogeneous single racioethnic population there. These things rarely concerns us but again we don’t have any experience in this area.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by tennisplyr » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:46 am

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:19 am
Overall Garden City seems the best for our needs. It’s just that on many forums people show concern about homogeneous single racioethnic population there. These things rarely concerns us but again we don’t have any experience in this area.

This video of Garden City gives you an overall feel.


https://youtu.be/CQ77MvE9nI4
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by smitcat » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:20 am

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:10 am
Thanks for all your replies. I am an MD and work in Brooklyn Queens area. These three towns have the best school district in westernmost LI. LIRR from great neck does not go to the place where I work. Garden City LIRR is very close to my work place in Brooklyn. NYC income tax is a big reason to avoid eastern Queens neighborhoods like Bayside, Glen Oaks etc. We are Indians by origin. Will that be an issue in Garden City? Also, is there any difference between school districts among these three towns?
Thanks again.
Articles ranking school districts by test scores and % going to 4 year college are easy to find:
https://patch.com/new-york/oysterbay/ne ... -districts
The difference between those 3 good school districts will not be significant

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by bsteiner » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:28 am

Good Listener wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:59 pm
I would tread with caution. Prices are extremely high and taxes are unbelievably high. There is increasing crime in Long Island and although not yet in Great Neck for example, it is in Hempstead. Just do a search of crime and gangs in Hempstead Long Island. I won't say anymore.
Nassau County is one of the safest counties in New York: https://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/crim ... -rates.pdf.
money_bunny wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:49 pm
...
As far as diversity, Long Island is really bad at that. https://www.brickunderground.com/live/l ... egregation Maybe it's changed from when I grew up but I doubt it.
...
The amount of diversity varies from one town to another. Notwithstanding the article the Supreme Court invalidated restrictive covenants in 1948 in Shelley v. Kraemer: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case ... s_sdt=3,31.
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:10 am
Thanks for all your replies. I am an MD and work in Brooklyn Queens area. These three towns have the best school district in westernmost LI. LIRR from great neck does not go to the place where I work. Garden City LIRR is very close to my work place in Brooklyn. NYC income tax is a big reason to avoid eastern Queens neighborhoods like Bayside, Glen Oaks etc. We are Indians by origin. Will that be an issue in Garden City? Also, is there any difference between school districts among these three towns?
Thanks again.
NYC has a city income tax of close to 4%, but very low property taxes on residences (due to having its own personal and corporate income taxes, and the property tax revenue from commercial property). So many moderate income taxpayers would pay less in taxes if they lived in Queens, but higher income taxpayers would usually pay less in taxes if they lived in the suburbs.

All of the ones you mentioned have excellent schools.

Some people may be more or less concerned than others about the level of diversity or lack of diversity, or the extent to which there are others of their ethnic or religious group in their community. Here is the breakdown for the towns you mentioned:

Garden City: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000049427.

Great Neck North: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000049054.

Great Neck South: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000049053.

Manhasset: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000049069.

If you want a community with a significant Asian community, you might consider Jericho or Syosset, both of which have excellent schools, though they're a few miles farther east than the ones you mentioned:

Jericho: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000049053.

Syosset: https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.php?y ... 0000048929.

They both get good train service, much better than Garden City (unless you go to Mineola which is on the same line as Hicksville (the station you would use from Jericho and the southern part of Syosset) and Syosset, though for people commuting to Penn Station in Manhattan not as good as Great Neck or Manhasset.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by scrabbler1 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:37 am

If you plan to live on LI and commute via LIRR to Brooklyn or Manhattan, I would advise you to live walking distance from the LIRR station. I live in Lynbrook and have lived walking distance from LIRR stations (Lynbrook and Valley Stream, 2 western Nassau, south shore communities) for the last 32 years, although I retired 11 years ago. Being able to walk to the LIRR, while it makes housing more expensive, has given me a big convenience and made the commute a little more tolerable.

One thing going on with the LIRR which just got started is its Third Track construction project, adding a track between Hicksville and Floral Park. Floral Park is on the same line (Hempstead) as Garden City, so over time there may be some service disruptions. They don't usually affect rush hour service.

Most rush hour trains from Garden City are direct to Brooklyn, something which would make your LIRR commute a little better.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:41 am

Thanks bsteiner. That was very helpful. Lack or presence of diversity doesn’t affect us much. We left our countries not to recreate or live within a narrow group. However, can’t say that everyone thinks that way and we just don’t want our kids to be negatively impacted in significant ways. Minor issues at schools are ok and kids have to learn to deal with these things anyway for real life.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by beyou » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.

a_movable_life
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by a_movable_life » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:06 pm

beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
Unless your children have the aptitude to get into the selective High Schools. They give an amazing opportunity if your child has the ability and the drive. Look up Bronx Science for example.

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beyou
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by beyou » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:29 pm

money_bunny wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:06 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
Unless your children have the aptitude to get into the selective High Schools. They give an amazing opportunity if your child has the ability and the drive. Look up Bronx Science for example.

Yes there are a handful of magnet schools in NYC. They require rigorous entrance exams, have limited spots, and would likely require your child travel a great distance to school each day. If you work in Queens but they get into Bronx HS of Science, they must take an hour long subway ride from Queens to the Bronx daily if you live near your home in Queens. If you live in Bronx, then you have a long commute to work (and Bronx is generally not as nice as Queens to live). In Nassau County Long Island, EVERY kid in your town can go to a top public school and have a short trip to get there. You as a parent will have a longer commute, but not so bad if you go from the towns you are considering to Queens. That said, yes these few magnet schools are very good and mostly immigrants, so while no social isolation, this is NOT what you said you wanted. On Long Island will be more a mixture of prior generations of immigrants (what you think of as Americans) and current generations from India/China/Korea etc.

[Political comment removed by Moderator Misenplace.]
Last edited by beyou on Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Thanks for all good suggestions. We have a toddler so some might say school should not be the major concern. But changing location after a few years is a hassle and expensive. Also, our parents visit and stay with us quite a bit so definitely need a bigger place then what’s available in the city.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by littlebird » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:42 pm

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:19 am
Overall Garden City seems the best for our needs. It’s just that on many forums people show concern about homogeneous single racioethnic population there. These things rarely concerns us but again we don’t have any experience in this area.
Garden City is somewhat unusual among L.I. villages in that it actually had a history of exclusionary deeds. My recollection is that Jews, as well as blacks, were excluded. Of course, these deeds were made illegal by the Fair Housing laws 50 years ago, and I do know that some Jewish families moved in immediately after WWII. How much this history has affected the current culture in the community I couldn’t say.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by HereToLearn » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:36 pm

Assuming you are in it for the long haul, here are the graduating class profiles for the local high schools.

Garden City: https://www.gardencity.k12.ny.us/site/h ... ILE%20.pdf

Manhasset: https://www.manhassetschools.org/Page/7359

Great Neck South: https://www.greatneck.k12.ny.us/domain/770

There is no reporting format, so you have to read through and pick out the information in order to compare.

A useful profile should include demographic info, % of students attending college, SAT/ACT scores compared to state and/or national averages, # of students awarded National Merit or Hispanic Scholars, AP exam results, etc. Some will also include per capita education spending & degree attainment of the faculty.

At first glance, Garden City's emphasis on athletics stands out.

There was an earlier comment about living within walking distance of the train station. Pros and cons there. Pro---no need to wait years to finally obtain a parking spot. Con---you will hear the trains if you live too close.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by beyou » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:40 pm

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:50 pm
Thanks for all good suggestions. We have a toddler so some might say school should not be the major concern. But changing location after a few years is a hassle and expensive. Also, our parents visit and stay with us quite a bit so definitely need a bigger place then what’s available in the city.
I lived in queens then moved to Nassau when having kids.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:56 pm

That was my fear that Garden City schools put too much emphasis on athletics in stead of science in comparison to other two school districts. Now I have to look at it all over again.

HereToLearn
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by HereToLearn » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:13 pm

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:56 pm
That was my fear that Garden City schools put too much emphasis on athletics in stead of science in comparison to other two school districts. Now I have to look at it all over again.
Sorry!

Hopefully someone with firsthand knowledge will weigh in. I am basing my observations on the info provided in the school profiles. Great Neck and Manhasset seem to have the edge in academics.

I sent you a PM.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:14 pm

money_bunny wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:33 am
Shallowpockets wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:27 am
I grew up there. Don't live there now. L.I. Is a geographical trap. Only way out is through the metropolitan area. Essentially your world is L.I. Has some pockets of interest, but you wear those out. It is a small world, but those there probably think they live in the only world. A lot of them end up in Florida in the later years. Go to Islip airport, watch the lines of wheel chairs ready to board the SW flights to Fl.
Lots of good food. Beaches good too. Too confining for me.
Taxes, ugh.
I haven't visited in a long time because of that. When I lived in NJ I would drive home to get to the GWB and Cross Bronx at midnight on Friday, and I'd be at my Mom's at 1AM. Only hit a little traffic in Queens. During other times it could take me 3-5 hours to get the 40 miles from NJ to my Mother's. Then at 6AM-7AM on Sunday I would leave to head back and do the reverse trip.
Forget about it, even at 12 midnight there is traffic, but the Cross Island is especially filled with people who drive it like a race track. The LIE isn't much better. I agree with you on the daytime traffic, and it doesn't matter really what time of the day - the Cross Bronx is an atrocious road to drive, and the trucks are the least of it. I'd make plans to visit relatives in LI say around 2PM and arrive at 4PM, even after leaving my home at 11:30 in the morning. I try to avoid going to LI, north or south shore.
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm

beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by bsteiner » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:46 pm

nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:56 pm
That was my fear that Garden City schools put too much emphasis on athletics in stead of science in comparison to other two school districts. Now I have to look at it all over again.
The demographics are different. That may account for it.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by beyou » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
Means a great deal. Extra curricular activities galore, extra course options not mandated by the state (AP courses for instance), and being surrounded by good competition. Outcome in tests, college admissions are superior. Yes there is self selection, but that is what makes for quality peers who learn from each other and compete with each other.

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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 am

beyou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
Means a great deal. Extra curricular activities galore, extra course options not mandated by the state (AP courses for instance), and being surrounded by good competition. Outcome in tests, college admissions are superior. Yes there is self selection, but that is what makes for quality peers who learn from each other and compete with each other.
NYC school system has offered AP classes for as long as I can remember, 30+ years. The NYC school system also offers extracurricular activities. For all the anecdotes that suggest suburban schools are better, the only thing that is certainly more in quantity is the cost of schooling.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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beyou
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Location: Northeastern US

Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by beyou » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:06 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 am
beyou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
Means a great deal. Extra curricular activities galore, extra course options not mandated by the state (AP courses for instance), and being surrounded by good competition. Outcome in tests, college admissions are superior. Yes there is self selection, but that is what makes for quality peers who learn from each other and compete with each other.
NYC school system has offered AP classes for as long as I can remember, 30+ years. The NYC school system also offers extracurricular activities. For all the anecdotes that suggest suburban schools are better, the only thing that is certainly more in quantity is the cost of schooling.
Your comments were general/national in nature, that I responded to, not just NYC. But if you want to compare NYC to suburban school districts, my employer donates cash and volunteers to 2 NYC schools so they can participate in an expensive, time consuming after school activity that our suburban district can well afford to pay ourselves. Getting teachers to stay late, those who have very long commutes to the city, is not easy, we provide the volunteers. Extra pay for same after school teachers in burbs. Cash expenses not in the budget in these NYC schools, but in our suburban budget. Same activity helps many kids with college scholarships, and career choices.

As far as AP, not easy to get teachers who can COMPETENTLY teach AP STEM courses. Best teachers want to work for 1/2 the salary in NYC or 2x in burbs ? Having a course titled AP is not the same as having resources to teach it well. And nationally, no not all schools even have the course. I am sure Bronx HS of Science is fine, but they can’t afford to hire the best broadly across all schools in NYC. I have had friends and neighbors who teach there, I hear what goes on.

smitcat
Posts: 4353
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by smitcat » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:02 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 am
beyou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm
nydoc wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:55 am
Are Queens schools better than LI schools? Combined property and nyc income taxes are still higher than LI property taxes for me.
Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
Means a great deal. Extra curricular activities galore, extra course options not mandated by the state (AP courses for instance), and being surrounded by good competition. Outcome in tests, college admissions are superior. Yes there is self selection, but that is what makes for quality peers who learn from each other and compete with each other.
NYC school system has offered AP classes for as long as I can remember, 30+ years. The NYC school system also offers extracurricular activities. For all the anecdotes that suggest suburban schools are better, the only thing that is certainly more in quantity is the cost of schooling.
We know many teachers in NYC and long Island - there is no comparison in anything between the two. Rather then look up AP course offerings look up how many kids graduate with regents diplomas, how many get accepted to 4 year schools, what the average SAT test scores are for math are, how many students actually take the AP courses, what the graduation rate is in total , what is the % of drug issues in the school system area , etc.
There are many metrics you would want to know these are just some of them.

HereToLearn
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by HereToLearn » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:40 am

smitcat wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:02 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 am
beyou wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:23 am
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:22 pm
beyou wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm


Absolutely not, LI has some of the best public schools in the US. NYC is ok, not in same league.
NJ has some of the best public schools in the US as well, but what does that really mean? Not much, the same goes with LI.
The high property taxes are a function of municipal taxes, county taxes and school taxes. At least half of the taxes paid in LI are for schools, and of that, 60-65% represents the cost of staff and benefits. There is no direct link between staff expenses and how well the schools perform, too many other variables that can not be quantified by financial figures, such as home environment, parental involvement, health, socio-economic background, the individual child.
Means a great deal. Extra curricular activities galore, extra course options not mandated by the state (AP courses for instance), and being surrounded by good competition. Outcome in tests, college admissions are superior. Yes there is self selection, but that is what makes for quality peers who learn from each other and compete with each other.
NYC school system has offered AP classes for as long as I can remember, 30+ years. The NYC school system also offers extracurricular activities. For all the anecdotes that suggest suburban schools are better, the only thing that is certainly more in quantity is the cost of schooling.
We know many teachers in NYC and long Island - there is no comparison in anything between the two. Rather then look up AP course offerings look up how many kids graduate with regents diplomas, how many get accepted to 4 year schools, what the average SAT test scores are for math are, how many students actually take the AP courses, what the graduation rate is in total , what is the % of drug issues in the school system area , etc.
There are many metrics you would want to know these are just some of them.
I posted the school profile for each of the three towns being considered. The profiles list all of the data you outlined above, other than drug issues. For anyone trying to evaluate a school system, the HS profile is the best place to start. It is an imperfect tool, and not always readily available, but can contain a great deal of useful information, as long as one digs a bit.

retire2022
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by retire2022 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:53 pm

HereToLearn wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:40 am

I posted the school profile for each of the three towns being considered. The profiles list all of the data you outlined above, other than drug issues. For anyone trying to evaluate a school system, the HS profile is the best place to start. It is an imperfect tool, and not always readily available, but can contain a great deal of useful information, as long as one digs a bit.
Op your child is a toddler everything is going to change in 18 years by the time your child will be ready for High School, most people would consider pre K.

consider the story of this: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/busi ... story.html

HereToLearn
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by HereToLearn » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:27 pm

retire2022 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:53 pm
HereToLearn wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:40 am

I posted the school profile for each of the three towns being considered. The profiles list all of the data you outlined above, other than drug issues. For anyone trying to evaluate a school system, the HS profile is the best place to start. It is an imperfect tool, and not always readily available, but can contain a great deal of useful information, as long as one digs a bit.
Op your child is a toddler everything is going to change in 18 years by the time your child will be ready for High School, most people would consider pre K.

consider the story of this: https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/busi ... story.html
Retire2020---What I still call nursery schools, but others call pre-school or pre-K, are private, so you do not need to live in a school district in order to send your child to a nursery school in that town. In other words, you can cross town lines in order to attend a nursery school of your choice. Many are run by churches, and parishioners send their children to their church nursery school, and then on to public elementary school.

As to everything changing in 18 years....while many things will change, i will confirm that the better districts of 30 years ago on Long Island are still the better districts of today.

gyorgy
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:05 pm

Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by gyorgy » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:53 pm

Just FYI: there are a lot of ethnic South-Asians in North New Hyde Park, and of course multiple Indian supermarkets. You will even find an Indian day-care/pre-K there.

There are certainly Indians in Garden City, and everywhere around, just not very many.

You are spot on with the taxes. It's a myth that property taxes are higher in LI than in NYC. Sure, the tax _rate_ is several fold lower in NYC, but the _valuation_ of the properties is several fold higher in NYC. Multiplied together it's a wash. At the moment there is an outcry in Nassau County, since they want to bring up the valuation to market value (same as in NYC) while lowering the tax rate only _almost_ to the level in NYC. So, in the future expect slightly higher property taxes in Nassau County than in NYC; but after city income tax LI is still by leaps and bounds cheaper.

Topic Author
nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:41 pm

We visited all the neighborhoods and had a detailed look at the schools districts. Garden city is no longer under consideration as our goals are a little different. We are actively searching for a house in Herricks school district- Searingtown, Manhasset Hills, North Hyde park and Albertson.

latte1230
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by latte1230 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:07 pm

I lived in Roslyn, a town neighboring Manhasset for 6 years (2008 - 2013). Although in my late teens, early 20s at the time living with my folks, I was observant enough to notice that through the years until today home prices are stagnant if you were to compare to the booming markets of Queens an Brooklyn. Now, I understand not everyone is in to buy a home to see it rise in value, perhaps you're looking for a forever-home-- but it is something to consider.

A few other personal thoughts after living there:
- What is your lifestyle like? LI is made up of strictly suburban townships where you will be driving from strip mall to strip mall. Nothing very neighborly IMHO.
- Commuting to work was absolutely the biggest pain. If you are considering Manhasset for example, you will need to find parking every morning if you aren't walking distance from the LIRR station, making it a rushed and manic affair. Returning home is less maddening but do expect to get home by 7-730 just to account for commuting if you work a 9-5.
- Schools are great and I knew a few younger friends at the time who had much more perks and services available to them compared to NYC public schools (where I attended).

Have you considered perhaps even a co-op in Great Neck? If you consider the lower cost of purchasing a co-op and lower carrying costs, it's actually a good deal considering the LI services and access to great schools.

Topic Author
nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:32 pm

Thanks for your reply. Rosyln is good too but I am not so sure about the school district there. We are looking for a good sized house which is tough to find in Great Neck for a reasonable price.

livesoft
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by livesoft » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:14 pm

Maybe move further east just into Suffolk County?
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smitcat
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by smitcat » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:30 pm

nydoc wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:32 pm
Thanks for your reply. Rosyln is good too but I am not so sure about the school district there. We are looking for a good sized house which is tough to find in Great Neck for a reasonable price.
Roslyn #12 in New York - full article and list here....

https://patch.com/new-york/bayshore/lon ... w-rankings

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nydoc
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by nydoc » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:46 pm

Agree. Trying to stay close to NYC in the Queens bordering towns in LI with good schools. So excluding New Hyde Park and Floral Park, all are in consideration. At one time looked into Scarsdale in Westchester too but commute is horrible.

cableguy
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by cableguy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:05 pm

I'm on LI. Been here a very long time. I hate to say it....but it can be very difficult place if you aren't caucasian and you are looking for top schools. For example, Cold Spring Harbor schools are great, but if you aren't white, you will stick out like a sore thumb. Jericho is a great school district, with kids from all over. Very diverse. Good luck in your search. There are some great towns and schools districts. I would stay west of Route 110 if you have to go into NYC. The commute gets ugly east of 110.

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Rob5TCP
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Re: Long Island NY housing

Post by Rob5TCP » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:08 pm

I grew up off Cherry Valley Road (which was just off one of the main streets - Nassau Blvd).
G.C. High is always on one of the list of the hundred or so best schools in the country.
Adelphia University (is also off Cherry Valley Road).

Taxes while very high, I believe were a little bit less than others because of all the
commercial properties (Roosevelt Field for one).

When my parents retired (25+ years ago) I moved out and swore never to return.
(moved to San Fran and then to NYC).

Parents loved living there -- to me as a kid it was like a slow death.

Some friends have moved there and seem to really love living there.

One sad note, two of the really large Tudor mansions I remember as a kid have been torn
down and replaced with 4 smaller homes (though still quite expensive).

The Garden City Hotel, which was quite the building was torn down a couple of decades
ago and replaced with a modern non-descript hotel.

For families, I can see the attraction. Back then it was extremely low crime (and I imagine
today it still is probably very low); good to excellent schools, Jones Beach was 10-15 10 miles away
though with traffic today could be a problem.

Plenty of parks (Eisenhower or whatever it's called today was the closest).

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