Insane to buy a sports car?

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azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:49 pm
WhiteMaxima wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:26 pm
A Honda Civic Si (25K)
a VW Golf GTI (25K)
a Mazda Miata ((30K)
all these are sporty car within 30k budget
Those are sporty. Those are NOT sports cars.
Name your idea of a sports car under 30K then, and I'll list the many ways those first 2 outperform whatever you pick. (I'm not defending the Miata though)
I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.
And the Honda Accord is a better car than all 3 on that list. When did we switch to just “the best car” under 30k? Yeah, the Miata is a great .... car, but a GTI even unmodified outperforms it everywhere and under any condition. So does a civic Si. Civic SI and GTI will trade blows though depending on the test.

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Kenkat
Posts: 5488
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Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Kenkat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:36 pm

JackoC wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:03 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
Here’s an article you might enjoy:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/r ... rack-test/

Tesla Model 3 is actually pretty competent on the track and less limited than I would have guessed. That said, I doubt many people buy these cars with the intent to take them to track. And lots of performance cars discussed regularly on the forum cannot use most of their performance capabilities on the street - at last not without being a complete idiot and putting yourself and others at risk.
Inevitable Tesla derail. :(

The other thing it can't do is exciting driving on extremely isolated roads where you're not an idiot to have fun with the performance of an M2, there's nobody else around. But the next gas station might be 90 miles away, forget finding then sitting around at a charger. :happy

The other thing in that regard actually relevant to a Boxster/Cayman would be space. We found the M2 adequate in space for all our stuff on two week road trip, including our hiking stuff, wife likes to bring own food, etc. Though it's strictly a two person car on such a trip. A 718 (Boxster/Cayman) couldn't do that. And locally the M2 is 4 person car for short hops and Cayman strictly two. That's one of my reasons for preferring the M, having considered the Cayman, besides Cayman would cost more as I'd like it equipped and I don't think there's a huge difference in driving fun. A 911 at considerably higher price point is somewhere in between in practicality with the 'kinda' back seat you can't really sit on but can hold some more stuff. Just no interest in Tesla on any level, of course to each his or her own.
Sorry, I honestly thought I was on the “Talk me out of buying a Tesla Model 3 thread”. :wink:

I am unlikely to buy a Tesla anytime soon either - I have a Camaro which is kind of an anti-Tesla in terms of technology - but the article did change some perceptions I had.

cacophony
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:12 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by cacophony » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:44 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:49 pm
WhiteMaxima wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:26 pm
A Honda Civic Si (25K)
a VW Golf GTI (25K)
a Mazda Miata ((30K)
all these are sporty car within 30k budget
Those are sporty. Those are NOT sports cars.
Name your idea of a sports car under 30K then, and I'll list the many ways those first 2 outperform whatever you pick. (I'm not defending the Miata though)
I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.
And the Honda Accord is a better car than all 3 on that list. When did we switch to just “the best car” under 30k? Yeah, the Miata is a great .... car, but a GTI even unmodified outperforms it everywhere and under any condition. So does a civic Si. Civic SI and GTI will trade blows though depending on the test.
The best reason to get a sports car is because it's fun to drive. For many people that comes down to: steering feel and feedback, shifter feel, clutch feel, handling, nimbleness, and balance. The Miata wins all of those.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:54 pm

cacophony wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:44 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:49 pm


Those are sporty. Those are NOT sports cars.
Name your idea of a sports car under 30K then, and I'll list the many ways those first 2 outperform whatever you pick. (I'm not defending the Miata though)
I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.
And the Honda Accord is a better car than all 3 on that list. When did we switch to just “the best car” under 30k? Yeah, the Miata is a great .... car, but a GTI even unmodified outperforms it everywhere and under any condition. So does a civic Si. Civic SI and GTI will trade blows though depending on the test.
The best reason to get a sports car is because it's fun to drive. For many people that comes down to: steering feel and feedback, shifter feel, clutch feel, handling / lack of body roll, and balance. The Miata wins all of those.
Just don’t pull it up to my GTI and challenge me. You won’t like it as much afterwards.

cacophony
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:12 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by cacophony » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:02 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:54 pm
cacophony wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:44 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm


Name your idea of a sports car under 30K then, and I'll list the many ways those first 2 outperform whatever you pick. (I'm not defending the Miata though)
I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.
And the Honda Accord is a better car than all 3 on that list. When did we switch to just “the best car” under 30k? Yeah, the Miata is a great .... car, but a GTI even unmodified outperforms it everywhere and under any condition. So does a civic Si. Civic SI and GTI will trade blows though depending on the test.
The best reason to get a sports car is because it's fun to drive. For many people that comes down to: steering feel and feedback, shifter feel, clutch feel, handling / lack of body roll, and balance. The Miata wins all of those.
Just don’t pull it up to my GTI and challenge me. You won’t like it as much afterwards.
If I owned a Miata I personally wouldn't try to race anyone at a light because that completely misses the entire point of that car. And thinking I'd like the car less because of that is also missing the point.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:05 pm

cacophony wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:02 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:54 pm
cacophony wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:44 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm

I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.
And the Honda Accord is a better car than all 3 on that list. When did we switch to just “the best car” under 30k? Yeah, the Miata is a great .... car, but a GTI even unmodified outperforms it everywhere and under any condition. So does a civic Si. Civic SI and GTI will trade blows though depending on the test.
The best reason to get a sports car is because it's fun to drive. For many people that comes down to: steering feel and feedback, shifter feel, clutch feel, handling / lack of body roll, and balance. The Miata wins all of those.
Just don’t pull it up to my GTI and challenge me. You won’t like it as much afterwards.
If I owned a Miata I personally wouldn't try to race anyone at a light because that completely misses the entire point of that car. And thinking I'd like the car less because of that is also missing the point.
To each his own, but it’d bother me knowing even a 2.0 accord and many other convention cars are faster than my Miata. But my GTI as very easily modified? You’re going to need to be packing quite a bit - think roughly base model vette speed.

Bacchus01
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:35 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Bacchus01 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:11 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
Reddit is not filled with the C8 target buyer. Go read the C8 thread at CorvetteForum. More than 130k posts on and 98% are positive.

EddyB
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EddyB » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:25 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:31 am
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now?
Do it now. YOLO!
While I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad decision, I know that when I was in similar circumstances, I refrained; now, a decade later, I have interests that I didn’t even know existed when I was a kid, and am happy to have the extra money. Also, although I couldn’t have foreseen it then, I ended up without a commute for the past eight years, and waves of other things that occupied much of my weekend time.

Just a counterpoint from someone who doesn’t have a knee-jerk negative reaction to the subject, but isn’t sure it’s as simple as “YOLO.”

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.
If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own.

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LadyGeek
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:52 pm

I removed an interchange which disagreed on the definition of a sports car. The discussion was getting derailed.

Please stay on-topic.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

EnjoyIt
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:14 pm

I hate seeing "YOLO" on this or any legitimate finance forum. YOLO is what gets people in trouble and they come to Dave Ramsey or places like this to help get them out. YOLO should never be the answer to a luxury purchase question. YOLO on its own is pure ignorance.

Nothing wrong with spending money on luxuries that someone can derive consistent and enjoyable pleasure from when those luxuries don't have signifiant financial consequences.





I am curious to hear from OP and see what they have decided to do.

BanquetBeer
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:57 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by BanquetBeer » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm

Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:30 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm


You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.
If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own.
Yes , of course - but that does not change the fact that these new C8"s are popular already and will be consumed in larger quantities.

helloeveryone
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:16 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by helloeveryone » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm

BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.
+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm

helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.
+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.
Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:55 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:30 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm


Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.
If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own.
Yes , of course - but that does not change the fact that these new C8"s are popular already and will be consumed in larger quantities.
Hopefully it does work out for Chevrolet, given the dim outlook for the Camaro. I'd hate to see them lose both sports cars.

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.
+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.
Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:55 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:30 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am


"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.
GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.
If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own.
Yes , of course - but that does not change the fact that these new C8"s are popular already and will be consumed in larger quantities.
Hopefully it does work out for Chevrolet, given the dim outlook for the Camaro. I'd hate to see them lose both sports cars.
Interesting - only worried about Chevy as the auto/personal transportation industry faces these changes or worried about many?

"If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own."
FWIW - comments from a Ferrari site ….
https://www.motor1.com/features/362366/ ... ette-2020/

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.
+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.
Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!

User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 4476
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:44 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JoeRetire » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:24 pm

EddyB wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:25 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:31 am
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now?
Do it now. YOLO!
While I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad decision, I know that when I was in similar circumstances, I refrained; now, a decade later, I have interests that I didn’t even know existed when I was a kid, and am happy to have the extra money. Also, although I couldn’t have foreseen it then, I ended up without a commute for the past eight years, and waves of other things that occupied much of my weekend time.

Just a counterpoint from someone who doesn’t have a knee-jerk negative reaction to the subject, but isn’t sure it’s as simple as “YOLO.”
Don't get me wrong. I think throwing money at a sports car is a total waste. For me, cars are just 4-wheeled transportation.

But the OP appears to have already decided, so why bother to analyze or propose a counterpoint? I was going to be snarky about having "always dreamed", but we are each entitled to our own fun purchases as long as we can afford it.
Very Stable Genius

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:26 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:16 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:55 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:30 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:42 pm


GM has demo C8's traveling around the country from dealer to dealer so folks can see them.
Last weekend we were going to stop by a local dealer that had one for a week or so on display just for a look.
When we went by there was lines down the parkway for over 1/2 mile - about 2,000 people were there.
For us we did not prefer to wait but a friend who did said they were taking orders from many people at that event.
Just one dealer , at one location, on one day.
If I wanted a Ferrari, I’d just get one instead of a knockoff. To each his/her own.
Yes , of course - but that does not change the fact that these new C8"s are popular already and will be consumed in larger quantities.
Hopefully it does work out for Chevrolet, given the dim outlook for the Camaro. I'd hate to see them lose both sports cars.
Interesting - only worried about Chevy as the auto/personal transportation industry faces these changes or worried about many?
The Camaro's a pretty iconic car, so it was hard not to notice that announcement.

I'm only personally going to follow VW/Audi closely as that's my preferred brand. TBH, i like the styling of those cars more than anything (particularly the interiors). But I also like the highly developed tuner aftermarket for both of those. It's crazy easy to go "fast-and-furious" on any VW or Audi, with multiple vendors to choose from (I use Unitronic though). My Mk 6 GTI off the lot was just peppy, but as modified, honestly it scares me a little bit.

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
Seeing the comment now on windfall it seems OP is saving on average less than the 19+20= $39k/yr. I think it is premature to buy a $90k car because OP:

1) seems to spend most of his paycheck (high lifestyle)
2) Would likely continue to desire high cost cars when replacing
3) taking a large step change frequently results in regrets

What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)

Even if OP is the 1 out of 10 who is still passionate and like the car - I would not recommend the purchase due to spending:savings ratio and encouraging lifestyle inflation since he presumably already lives on the high end.

MMM would tell you to get a $50 bike. The suggestion here by many to get something $35-60k can not be genuinely compared to a MMM forum.
+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.
Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
Your thoughts about being in a position to spend extra funds at this point in time for the OP include his current account balance and immediate income level.
So you do not think having much of the savings as a windfall is an issue? That he had lost his job last year? that he is planning a marriage soon? and that he is seemingly planning a home purchase shortly as well?
Interesting....

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:43 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm


+1 on the "...results in regret"
My substitutions are pocket knives, guitar, used 528i (excellent car and fun to drive but looking back I could easily have done without). the problem with a $80,000 sports car is the cost of the lesson learned is very substantial. That's why I favor those who recommended going with a pre-owned version.

I love cars as well and look every few days on cars.com but I value early retirement (or at least financial independence) way way more than the need to scratch the car itch.
Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
Your thoughts about being in a position to spend extra funds at this point in time for the OP include his current account balance and immediate income level.
So you do not think having much of the savings as a windfall is an issue? That he had lost his job last year? that he is planning a marriage soon? and that he is seemingly planning a home purchase shortly as well?
Interesting....
I explained why not already. He didn’t mention anything about a windfall or job insecurity. Marriage, if anything, increases financial stability ( read TMND), and what’s the concern about home purchase? Better to pay your own mortgage than someone else’s. And an amazing feature of homes? You can sell them if need be. No, really, you can!

I’m drinking wine at the moment, but you did see where I recommended the cheaper sports/sporty car, right? I think we’re on the same team here maybe.....

JackoC
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JackoC » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:36 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:11 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit:
Reddit is not filled with the C8 target buyer. Go read the C8 thread at CorvetteForum. More than 130k posts on and 98% are positive.
Basically I think good for GM to try to advance the Corvette, even changing it a lot. And mid engine is not something belonging to any given manufacturer it's a design solution that becomes increasingly attractive under certain design requirements. And I guess the marketing angle of interesting more new people in the Corvette with a bold change, than 'Corvette guys' they turn off, will work out also.

Assuming GM really executed including in terms of their traditional weaknesses (reliability [which everyone should care about], cheesy interiors with not go great fit/finish [OK if you don't care, fine], etc). I guess that will be seen. Again I personally wouldn't buy a brand new model from GM, but fortunately my M2 is only a year old and I'm not getting rid of it soon or adding a car as similar as a C8 or Boxster Spyder (which aren't just like it, but similar enough to be an odd pairing, and we have two cars not a big collection of cars :happy ).

Back again to financials, I don't track people's past posts and build case histories. And saving even 25% of take home is totally fine if that's in line with your plan and career (ie. you're not aiming to retire at 40, it's a sustainable career, etc). Personally, the classified figure for % of assets and income the M2 represented for me is pretty different. And I tend to be a little paranoid sometimes about stuff going wrong or happening to the car even at those quite different levels though overall it's a blast. My worry about cars as relatively expensive as Boxster Sypder or C8 are to OP would probably affect my enjoyment of them significantly. But I don't really 'like' being that way, I just am that way. If somebody else isn't, OK.

Starfish
Posts: 1548
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Starfish » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:12 am

To me buying a 100k sports car with 90k saving is a bad idea.
Given maintenance, insurance etc it means that 2 years of income go in this car. 2 years is a lot especially if one target FI in 10 years or so.
I pass every day porsches, ferraris etc on my way to work. I go 6mp/h, they are at 5... Besides I can actually use my car, drive somewhere and park it like it should be.
Where do you use a sports car in US, with the traffic, bad roads, heavy handed law enforcement, bad/clueless/texting drivers and very low speed limits? If you go to track days you are better served with a Miata. Much cheaper to run, cheap to modify, fun.
I have nothing against living now instead of deferring it, but I just cannot imagine how can be worth it. Fun per $ does not seem high. You will be in the same traffic with me on the same roads with me.

BanquetBeer
Posts: 386
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:57 pm

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by BanquetBeer » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:48 am

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm
BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm
...
...
...
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
He may have savings/income in the top 5-2% but he also has spending in that range as well.

If I made $100k/yr and saved 20k I have a 20% savings rate. If after 5 years I think, “man I got $100k sitting around and $100k income - I should buy a $50k boat” the reality is after recalculating for the last 5 years I actually had a 10% savings rate and a boat fund.

That is the situation I am cautioning against for the OP.

Many high income jobs are high stress. Plenty of people would like to take your spot. Dual income can provide additional safety IF you live off of one salary but in the event you are big spenders and now instead of living on 85% of your salaries now you live on 75% of combined salary - if one of you loose a job you will be at negative income/lifestyle shrink.

I have consciously worked towards incremental upgrades on my life so that I appreciate each step and maximize that short upgrade dopamine spike. My first car was $4k, my second car was $25k and my next car will probably be ~$50k after 10 or more years each. My priority is first secure financial independence so I don’t worry about a job loss for either of us. After that, increase spending with lower stress.

As with the OP, if you hunker down for 15-20 years you can have easy sailing for the next 45. I’ll take the risk I will die at 45 (and my kids get my money) vs stress about job losses until 65

smitcat
Posts: 4636
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:25 am

azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm


Well, i didn't say it before, but all of this (both comments) was the reason I started suggesting something a bit cheaper. The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead, I would say still not so well I'd personally drop that kind of cash on a sports/sporty car. But that's me and I'm admittedly more conservative than the average person. Not just my car, but I also live in "the wrong neighborhood" (a couple of neighborhoods lower than what the average person would do with my household income).
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
Your thoughts about being in a position to spend extra funds at this point in time for the OP include his current account balance and immediate income level.
So you do not think having much of the savings as a windfall is an issue? That he had lost his job last year? that he is planning a marriage soon? and that he is seemingly planning a home purchase shortly as well?
Interesting....
I explained why not already. He didn’t mention anything about a windfall or job insecurity. Marriage, if anything, increases financial stability ( read TMND), and what’s the concern about home purchase? Better to pay your own mortgage than someone else’s. And an amazing feature of homes? You can sell them if need be. No, really, you can!

I’m drinking wine at the moment, but you did see where I recommended the cheaper sports/sporty car, right? I think we’re on the same team here maybe.....
I know many people that have not been able to save $750K their entire lives
I know many people that have been able to save $750K
I know many people that can go through $750K very quickly
And I know many people that get themselves in financial trouble after receiving windfalls

There are many differences between having money, making money, and saving money. In this case I had asked these questions of the OP as the picture was not clear. Since their have been no clear answers I do not have the required information to offer an answer of any value. Most of this appears in this post for whatever that is worth.

Kuna_Papa_Wengi
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:55 pm
Location: Rocinante

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Kuna_Papa_Wengi » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:29 am

In your situation, it would be insane not to buy a sports car.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:41 am

BanquetBeer wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:48 am
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:51 pm
helloeveryone wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:33 pm

...
...
"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
He may have savings/income in the top 5-2% but he also has spending in that range as well.

If I made $100k/yr and saved 20k I have a 20% savings rate. If after 5 years I think, “man I got $100k sitting around and $100k income - I should buy a $50k boat” the reality is after recalculating for the last 5 years I actually had a 10% savings rate and a boat fund.

That is the situation I am cautioning against for the OP.

Many high income jobs are high stress. Plenty of people would like to take your spot. Dual income can provide additional safety IF you live off of one salary but in the event you are big spenders and now instead of living on 85% of your salaries now you live on 75% of combined salary - if one of you loose a job you will be at negative income/lifestyle shrink.

I have consciously worked towards incremental upgrades on my life so that I appreciate each step and maximize that short upgrade dopamine spike. My first car was $4k, my second car was $25k and my next car will probably be ~$50k after 10 or more years each. My priority is first secure financial independence so I don’t worry about a job loss for either of us. After that, increase spending with lower stress.

As with the OP, if you hunker down for 15-20 years you can have easy sailing for the next 45. I’ll take the risk I will die at 45 (and my kids get my money) vs stress about job losses until 65
That’s all fine to me as you’re really preaching to the choir. I suggested a more modest car that will still give plenty of fun.

azanon
Posts: 2632
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:34 am

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:43 am

smitcat wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:25 am
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:43 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm
azanon wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:14 pm


"The OP is doing very well, but commenting as a boglehead"
I am curious how you know the OP is doing very well. I have not been able to understand how much of his past savings came from a windfall and how much was his personal savings. Similarly I have not been able to figure out when he is getting married and whether his plans include buying a home shortly.
Really? Income: ~$250k/year at 32 yrs of age, and 750K saved already. While I'm not going to take the time to research it, that's at least 95th percentile on both income and saved by that age. Probably closer to 97-98th percentile. Who cares if the money was inherited - he has it just the same. He makes a quarter of a mil a year at just age 32 so it's not like he can't continue to build.

Heck, at 32, I'd probably be scary to plug in 750K for 30 years compounded at 7-8% (assuming retirement at age 62) into a calculator. I'm going to refrain from that because it'd depress me!
Your thoughts about being in a position to spend extra funds at this point in time for the OP include his current account balance and immediate income level.
So you do not think having much of the savings as a windfall is an issue? That he had lost his job last year? that he is planning a marriage soon? and that he is seemingly planning a home purchase shortly as well?
Interesting....
I explained why not already. He didn’t mention anything about a windfall or job insecurity. Marriage, if anything, increases financial stability ( read TMND), and what’s the concern about home purchase? Better to pay your own mortgage than someone else’s. And an amazing feature of homes? You can sell them if need be. No, really, you can!

I’m drinking wine at the moment, but you did see where I recommended the cheaper sports/sporty car, right? I think we’re on the same team here maybe.....
I know many people that have not been able to save $750K their entire lives
I know many people that have been able to save $750K
I know many people that can go through $750K very quickly
And I know many people that get themselves in financial trouble after receiving windfalls

There are many differences between having money, making money, and saving money. In this case I had asked these questions of the OP as the picture was not clear. Since their have been no clear answers I do not have the required information to offer an answer of any value. Most of this appears in this post for whatever that is worth.
Then I’m being more conservative than you. I suggest a more modest car regardless and assuming the best case scenario.

alfaspider
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by alfaspider » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:22 am

BanquetBeer wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:17 pm


What I mean by the last is I know lots of people who like riding bicycles. They have a nice $250 one but they really like it so they go out and buy a $2000 one. 9 out of 10 people I know who have done this regret it a few years later. Some of this is related to the cost of the bike making them less comfortable taking it out everywhere or breaking it with hard use. The other part is life and priorities change.
Substitute bicycle for any number of things (scuba diving gear, sports cars, beer brewing, etc.)
The difference here is whether you are buying an expensive item due to lifestyle creep/wanting the "best", or because you are an enthusiast who really appreciates the intrinsic differences.

Most people I know who are really into cycling (myself included) have multiple $1,000+ bikes. While they might regret a specific bike purchase, none I know of regret buying a high end bike. But they aren't buying a $1,000+ because it's flashy or "nice", but because it fulfills a specific purpose. You probably aren't going to be happy on a $250 bike (unless it's a screaming used deal) doing 200mi ride, nor would most $250 bikes survive a punishing downhill mountain bike run. In fact, the reason you buy a more expensive one is precisely so it WILL survive hard use. Most bike enthusiasts will also have a "beater" bike that is acceptable for locking up in public.

Cars are a similar hobby to bikes, but also different in that they are much more expensive relative to most people's incomes, and because even people who don't have a particular affinity for them often spend a lot of money on them. As a result, they are wound up in socio-cultural baggage in a way other hobby items are not. I may want a Porsche because I am into cars and appreciate the engineering, but to someone on the street who sees me getting out of the Porsche, I would just be some rich jerk in a Porsche- not a car enthusiast.

WhyNotUs
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by WhyNotUs » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:38 am

I did not wait and drove and raced a Porsche in my youth. It was incredibly fun. It was also expensive and ate up much more of my income than you will need.

A lease would allow you to get your ya yas out and aniticpate the cost. Two year lease should be possible for about $9k a year. Your insurance will go up- alot. Maybe $25k all in for two years to get it out of your system. If you have a long list of "gee I work so hard and never had ....." then you will not find joy in any of this. If this is your only item, then you can scratch that itch.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

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Toons
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Toons » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:42 am

Get The Car.
Enjoy
:happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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misterg
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by misterg » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:24 am

Thanks everyone for all the really thoughtful (and varied) responses. Definitely lots of food for thought.

I realize there are more things I could divulge to get more tailored advice (income sources, career stage and progression over time, cash reserves earmarked for purchase, my location, savings rate over time, SSN.. just kidding) but I posted the most basic info to get a gut check on the purchase. It seems like the overall sentiment is that it would be bit of a stretch to spend that kind of money at this point. Maybe the answer is waiting a bit for a used version, leasing, or something else.

I realize we can always wait longer and save even more money... but to echo what some have said, money is a tool. Eventually you should enjoy some of it (but I want to do it responsibly, which is why I polled the smart people here).

As for all the car suggestions, I really appreciate them but I’ve done a lot of homework/dreaming and I’m pretty set on one of those two cars (or something very very similar). I haven’t owned a car in ten years because I’ve been waiting to get a dream car, not a commuter car!

Here’s where I am at. The two cars don’t even come out until about spring 2020. I’m going to continue to save cash, monitor my investments, price out options, and test drive both cars when they come out. At that point I’ll post an update on $ position and thoughts on moving forward (lease, buy, wait for a used version, etc).

Thanks again everyone.

smitcat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:52 am

misterg wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:24 am
Thanks everyone for all the really thoughtful (and varied) responses. Definitely lots of food for thought.

I realize there are more things I could divulge to get more tailored advice (income sources, career stage and progression over time, cash reserves earmarked for purchase, my location, savings rate over time, SSN.. just kidding) but I posted the most basic info to get a gut check on the purchase. It seems like the overall sentiment is that it would be bit of a stretch to spend that kind of money at this point. Maybe the answer is waiting a bit for a used version, leasing, or something else.

I realize we can always wait longer and save even more money... but to echo what some have said, money is a tool. Eventually you should enjoy some of it (but I want to do it responsibly, which is why I polled the smart people here).

As for all the car suggestions, I really appreciate them but I’ve done a lot of homework/dreaming and I’m pretty set on one of those two cars (or something very very similar). I haven’t owned a car in ten years because I’ve been waiting to get a dream car, not a commuter car!

Here’s where I am at. The two cars don’t even come out until about spring 2020. I’m going to continue to save cash, monitor my investments, price out options, and test drive both cars when they come out. At that point I’ll post an update on $ position and thoughts on moving forward (lease, buy, wait for a used version, etc).

Thanks again everyone.

"I realize we can always wait longer and save even more money... but to echo what some have said, money is a tool. Eventually you should enjoy some of it (but I want to do it responsibly, which is why I polled the smart people here)."

"I realize there are more things I could divulge to get more tailored advice"
The value of the answers will be completely dependent upon the value of the input given.

Bacchus01
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Bacchus01 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:18 pm

misterg wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:24 am
Thanks everyone for all the really thoughtful (and varied) responses. Definitely lots of food for thought.

I realize there are more things I could divulge to get more tailored advice (income sources, career stage and progression over time, cash reserves earmarked for purchase, my location, savings rate over time, SSN.. just kidding) but I posted the most basic info to get a gut check on the purchase. It seems like the overall sentiment is that it would be bit of a stretch to spend that kind of money at this point. Maybe the answer is waiting a bit for a used version, leasing, or something else.

I realize we can always wait longer and save even more money... but to echo what some have said, money is a tool. Eventually you should enjoy some of it (but I want to do it responsibly, which is why I polled the smart people here).

As for all the car suggestions, I really appreciate them but I’ve done a lot of homework/dreaming and I’m pretty set on one of those two cars (or something very very similar). I haven’t owned a car in ten years because I’ve been waiting to get a dream car, not a commuter car!

Here’s where I am at. The two cars don’t even come out until about spring 2020. I’m going to continue to save cash, monitor my investments, price out options, and test drive both cars when they come out. At that point I’ll post an update on $ position and thoughts on moving forward (lease, buy, wait for a used version, etc).

Thanks again everyone.
If you want a C8 for 2020 you had better order before next Spring. Ordering next Spring likely means you won't see one until late 2020 or even early 2021.

H-Town
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by H-Town » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm

misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now? I want a convertible, something FAST and preferably stick shift (dying breed). The new Vette doesn’t have a manual option but it wins in terms of speed/value.

Front runners for cars:
2020 Corvette Stingray (~$80k)
2020 Porsche Boxster Spyder (~98k)

Age: 32
Status: Single, no kids
Income: ~$250k/year pre tax, maxing out 401k, backdoor Roth, and ESPP at work.
Living: Rent 3k/month (HCOL area)
Debt: None
Life insurance: personal $100k (20k cash value) policy plus employer 2X salary benefit
Savings: 750k (80/20 stocks/bonds)
I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items.

Assuming you live on 150k annual expense, you should aim for 20 x 150k = $3M.

In the meantime, go to the track and rent a race car for the weekend. It's more fun and you can actually feel the g and the excitement. Owning a 100k car is not as fun.

smitcat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm

H-Town wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now? I want a convertible, something FAST and preferably stick shift (dying breed). The new Vette doesn’t have a manual option but it wins in terms of speed/value.

Front runners for cars:
2020 Corvette Stingray (~$80k)
2020 Porsche Boxster Spyder (~98k)

Age: 32
Status: Single, no kids
Income: ~$250k/year pre tax, maxing out 401k, backdoor Roth, and ESPP at work.
Living: Rent 3k/month (HCOL area)
Debt: None
Life insurance: personal $100k (20k cash value) policy plus employer 2X salary benefit
Savings: 750k (80/20 stocks/bonds)
I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items.

Assuming you live on 150k annual expense, you should aim for 20 x 150k = $3M.

In the meantime, go to the track and rent a race car for the weekend. It's more fun and you can actually feel the g and the excitement. Owning a 100k car is not as fun.
"I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items."
Wow - I would never wait that long and did not wait that long.
I see many that do not save enough for the future
I see many that do not live enough in the present
Balance is the key to most things
YMMV

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 pm

misterg wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:24 am

Here’s where I am at. The two cars don’t even come out until about spring 2020. I’m going to continue to save cash, monitor my investments, price out options, and test drive both cars when they come out. At that point I’ll post an update on $ position and thoughts on moving forward (lease, buy, wait for a used version, etc).
So a Lotus Evija and what else? The koenigsegg Jesko is sold out. Hmmmm....Pagani Huayra?

I can get you in person pictures in a couple weeks of the Jesko and a dozen Huayras if you want.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Sic Vis Pacem
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Sic Vis Pacem » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:15 pm

Get the C8. Murdered out.

(...He says after cleaning baby spit-up out of the backseat of the Passat TDI...)

H-Town
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by H-Town » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:29 pm

smitcat wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm
H-Town wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now? I want a convertible, something FAST and preferably stick shift (dying breed). The new Vette doesn’t have a manual option but it wins in terms of speed/value.

Front runners for cars:
2020 Corvette Stingray (~$80k)
2020 Porsche Boxster Spyder (~98k)

Age: 32
Status: Single, no kids
Income: ~$250k/year pre tax, maxing out 401k, backdoor Roth, and ESPP at work.
Living: Rent 3k/month (HCOL area)
Debt: None
Life insurance: personal $100k (20k cash value) policy plus employer 2X salary benefit
Savings: 750k (80/20 stocks/bonds)
I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items.

Assuming you live on 150k annual expense, you should aim for 20 x 150k = $3M.

In the meantime, go to the track and rent a race car for the weekend. It's more fun and you can actually feel the g and the excitement. Owning a 100k car is not as fun.
"I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items."
Wow - I would never wait that long and did not wait that long.
I see many that do not save enough for the future
I see many that do not live enough in the present
Balance is the key to most things
YMMV
You got a whole spectrum to choose from. For me, meeting half-way is a good compromise.

smitcat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:42 pm

H-Town wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:29 pm
smitcat wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:34 pm
H-Town wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now? I want a convertible, something FAST and preferably stick shift (dying breed). The new Vette doesn’t have a manual option but it wins in terms of speed/value.

Front runners for cars:
2020 Corvette Stingray (~$80k)
2020 Porsche Boxster Spyder (~98k)

Age: 32
Status: Single, no kids
Income: ~$250k/year pre tax, maxing out 401k, backdoor Roth, and ESPP at work.
Living: Rent 3k/month (HCOL area)
Debt: None
Life insurance: personal $100k (20k cash value) policy plus employer 2X salary benefit
Savings: 750k (80/20 stocks/bonds)
I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items.

Assuming you live on 150k annual expense, you should aim for 20 x 150k = $3M.

In the meantime, go to the track and rent a race car for the weekend. It's more fun and you can actually feel the g and the excitement. Owning a 100k car is not as fun.
"I would wait until you're at least half way towards your FI number before spending on any "want" items."
Wow - I would never wait that long and did not wait that long.
I see many that do not save enough for the future
I see many that do not live enough in the present
Balance is the key to most things
YMMV
You got a whole spectrum to choose from. For me, meeting half-way is a good compromise.
Putting a hold on all wants until you are half way to a number is on the very end of the spectrum for us.
It worked for us not to wait for a number to balance life, we have passed this stage now.

Afty
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Afty » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:46 pm

How about buying a reasonably fun daily driver, something like an M3 or (R)S4 or, dare I say it, a Model 3 Performance, and renting an exotic for occasional weekend drives? In my neck of the woods, there are quite a variety of Porsches available on Turo, and there is an exotic car club you can join to get access to Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc.

You could also do track experiences to scratch the sports car itch. I did a Porsche driving experience in LA that was super fun, and I've done local exotic car drives as well.

dustinst22
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by dustinst22 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:53 pm

Biggest question for me is how stable your income is, not sure if that was mentioned in this thread. In my own case, my income is extremely high (600+), but I put off any major expenses including a house until I hit FI mostly because my income is from a business that can go away at any time. If the income is unstable or its a career that only pays well during bull markets, I'd put the pedal to the metal in terms of building your net worth -- make hay while the sun shines etc. If you are in a field with a lot of stability (i.e. engineer or doctor), it will make little difference if you make this purchase. The reason I bring this up is that I knew a few people here in socal that made a lot of money right before the recession, but they didn't put away enough and later got crushed pretty bad. Looks like you're in socal too, so we need a much bigger nest egg to rely on. My goal was 3M networth before even considering purchasing a home.

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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:37 pm

I removed a post near the start of the thread containing derogatory sexist remarks (stereotypical gender references in a condescending manner), which is not acceptable in this forum. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
avoid profanities, obscenities, lewd and otherwise offensive words and remarks
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JackoC
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JackoC » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:49 pm

Afty wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:46 pm
How about buying a reasonably fun daily driver, something like an M3 ... and there is an exotic car club you can join to get access to Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc.
Could be a good suggestion in general, but the G80 M3 is also a car to be introduced in 2020 and ~$80k is probably a fair ballpark for either an above entry-level C8 or a well optioned G80 M3. The Spyder Boxster would be more, probably like $115k nicely fitted out. The F80 M3 isn't in production anymore but the very similar F82 M4, which still is, is also a mid '$70's MSRP car nicely fitted out. I earlier mentioned my F87 M2 as a possible car a little further down the price scale, but while ~$60k MSRP, one can argue whether that's *that* much less. Although even my pretty small M2 is more practical in having a real back seat. For example as I mentioned on two week, two person road trip we took in the M2*, lack of space in a Boxster or Corvette would have been a real drawback.

Of course used M3's would be cheaper, but all sorts of used cars would be cheaper. Also the most expensive car targeted by OP, the Boxster Spyder is not any definition of an exotic IMO. If somebody was making $250k and less than $1mil assets a perhaps $250k+ car would be clearly a lot, whether or not a $115k one is too much.

*on which it did really well I think, super fun on isolated winding mountain and coastal roads, a more comfortable cruiser than I expected based on the experience on crap roads in NY area of NJ where I live, out west they seem to actually maintain the roads. :happy I'm sure the G generation M3/4 will have adaptive suspension like the F80/82, part of the higher price point v (pretty stiff) fixed suspension settings on the M2. Depending how much you emphasize cushy comfort on 'daily drive' that could also factor into C8 v. Boxster. As to the Car Brand That Shall Not Be Mentioned (by me, that everyone injects into car threads here) driving through northern CA we got into morning traffic in Silicon Valley area. Loads of CBTSNBM's, like 10% of all the cars at least, but also 4 M3's in about 10 minutes. CBTSNBM's are also common here in the NY area and we saw a few in SoCal, but approximately none anywhere else. Though actually that was similar with M-cars. We saw 2 M4's in LA but no recent model M's otherwise and no other M2's at all in 5,000 miles around/across from west to east coast, sticking to small roads, <10% on interstates. Not that I care if my car is usual/unusual but that was a little surprising.

petiejoe
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by petiejoe » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:35 pm

JackoC wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:03 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
Here’s an article you might enjoy:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/r ... rack-test/

Tesla Model 3 is actually pretty competent on the track and less limited than I would have guessed. That said, I doubt many people buy these cars with the intent to take them to track. And lots of performance cars discussed regularly on the forum cannot use most of their performance capabilities on the street - at last not without being a complete idiot and putting yourself and others at risk.
Inevitable Tesla derail. :(

The other thing it can't do is exciting driving on extremely isolated roads where you're not an idiot to have fun with the performance of an M2, there's nobody else around. But the next gas station might be 90 miles away, forget finding then sitting around at a charger. :happy

The other thing in that regard actually relevant to a Boxster/Cayman would be space. We found the M2 adequate in space for all our stuff on two week road trip, including our hiking stuff, wife likes to bring own food, etc. Though it's strictly a two person car on such a trip. A 718 (Boxster/Cayman) couldn't do that. And locally the M2 is 4 person car for short hops and Cayman strictly two. That's one of my reasons for preferring the M, having considered the Cayman, besides Cayman would cost more as I'd like it equipped and I don't think there's a huge difference in driving fun. A 911 at considerably higher price point is somewhere in between in practicality with the 'kinda' back seat you can't really sit on but can hold some more stuff. Just no interest in Tesla on any level, of course to each his or her own.
First, for the Tesla derail - I spend a fair amount of time driving on somewhat isolated roads. I've deliberately taken road trips on extremely isolated roads. I acknowledge that it takes a bit more planning and forethought to do it with the current electric charging infrastructure, but the next charger being 150 miles away isn't a problem when you have a 300 mile (call it 200 mile to be conservative with the impact of fast acceleration) range.

OK, for the OP... if you are interested in the level of control and connection to the car that comes with a manual transmission do NOT get a Tesla. The Tesla is a completely different driving experience. Corners like a dream and has an incredible launch acceleration, but doesn't give you the man vs machine challenge of getting your gear shifting just right to optimize your acceleration.

I think you should do some serious introspection on _why_ you want a sports car. If you want a fun driving experience, you can get an amazing driving experience with a used vehicle for a fraction of the cost you've proposed. If you want to show off a little - no judgement from me (I like playing the "my car is cooler" game), but be aware that showing off is very expensive and there's always going to be something flashier. I'd also suggest getting something more exotic rather than getting the same muscle car as everybody else. Something like a Maserati, a Lotus, or a classic sports car is going to get more attention than yet another Corvette (note - I'm not necessarily recommending them, just exploring what it is you really want for this purchase).

A few people have asked about your savings rate and whether your current net worth is because of a windfall vs personal saving. I'd push this a bit further and ask how long have you been saving for an awesome car? How long are you _willing_ to save for the car of your dreams? What other cuts are you willing to make to get this? If you haven't been saving up for this purchase, I'd strongly suggest you not spend more than a few months of your income on your splurge. When we decided to get our Tesla, we saved an equivalent of the car payment for a couple years and then paid cash (money is, at the end of the day, fungible).

Steady59
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Steady59 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:04 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am
My '75 BMW 2002, which I got for $12k two years ago
IS there a typo? Later in the paragraph, he also mentions being able to afford the entire engine rebuild on it if needed. Something is not computing.
No typo. My point is that there are many vintage cars, which are less expensive and still appreciating, that can provide a huge fun factor. The BMW 2002 is one of those IMO. It works for me...Driving slow fast. I could take my car to the track tomorrow.

My motor is fine, but a high end rebuild can be done rather cheaply and I’m still not upside down.

BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by BruDude » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:47 am

I'll just reiterate that after driving a 991 GT3, there will be no other choice. RIP your wallet, but worth every penny.

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