Insane to buy a sports car?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
EnjoyIt
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 pm

Can I please add some financial rationality to this thread?

What does it mean "you can afford it?"
Does it mean that OP makes enough money to cover the bills, or does it mean dropping $80k-$100k on a luxury will not in any way adversely affect OP financial future?

Well, spending $80k-$100k on a depreciating asset even with an income of $250k a year should be well considered before throwing out the "you can afford it comment."

For instance will buying this car pave the way of buying $100k new cars every 3 years? If so, this is a horrible horrible financial mistake. If OP is looking for early retirement or early financial independence then this is a pretty big hit which can add an extra year or two to that goal. The cash not spent on this luxury would compound very nicely over the next 15-20 years.

Having a sports car as a daily driver can be difficult at times. Maybe OP can deal with some of those issues but again, worth considering. Driving a high torque rear wheels drive car in heavy rain isn't the safest thing to do even with electronic stabilization. Also, daily commuting such an expensive work of art is dangerous to the paint job. You need to park that thing at work and at grocery stores. You will get dings, chips and scratches on something that is 12% of your wealth, diminishing its value with every paint defect. That can be very stressful for some to handle which is why the best way to enjoy a sports car is to have a daily commuter and the sports car for those fun occasions making the cost of ownership even higher.

Personally, I am a car guy. I love cars and very eager to see what the new C8 has to offer. I am not telling you not to buy it, but I want you to understand the implications of such a decision outside of the YOLO comments you see here. If I was in your shoes, and I was the car guy that I am, I would would save up cash for a lightly used sports car in the $40-$70k range, in manual (because manual is fun,) and keep whatever the hell you are driving for the daily commute. What is nice about a gently used car is that if you realize owning something so expensive is more hassle than it is worth, you can sell it and not lose out on too much depreciation as compared to buying new. It will be less stressful to own, won't depreciate as fast, and you will now be set for having two cars in your garage. One fun car and the daily commuter which you will be able to continue for as long as your future spouse allows :)

Who knows, maybe you will get into high performance driving and do events on a road coarse where your cool car will be the most fun to drive and taken to its limits.

I agree, life is short, money is meant to be spent, but understand the implications of the choice you are about to make.
Last edited by EnjoyIt on Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters. | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418

bstewie
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:26 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 pm
Can I please add some financial rationality to this thread?

What does it mean "you can afford it?"
Does it mean that OP makes enough money to cover the bills, or does it mean dropping $80k-$100k on a luxury will not in any way adversely affect OP financial future?

Well, spending $80k-$100k on a depreciating asset even with an income of $250k a year should be well considered before throwing out the "you can afford it comment."

For instance will buying this car pave the way of buying $100k new cars every 3 years? If so, this is a horrible horrible financial mistake. If OP is looking for early retirement or early financial independence then this is a pretty big hit which can add an extra year or two to that goal. The cash not spent on this luxury would compound very nicely over the next 15-20 years.

Having a sports car as a daily driver can be difficult at times. Maybe OP can deal with some of those issues but again, worth considering. Driving a high torque rear wheels drive car in heavy rain isn't the safest thing to do even with electronic stabilization. Also, daily commuting such an expensive work of art is dangerous to the paint job. You need to park that thing at work and at grocery stores. You will get dings, chips and scratches on something that is 12% of your wealth, diminishing its value with every paint defect. That can be very stressful for some to handle which is why the best way to enjoy a sports car is to have a daily commuter and the sports car for those fun occasions making the cost of ownership even higher.

Personally, I am a car guy. I love cars and very eager to see what the new C8 has to offer. I am not telling you not to buy it, but I want you to understand the implications of such a decision outside of the YOLO comments you see here. If I was in your shoes, and I was the car guy that I am, I would would save up cash for a lightly used sports car in the $40-$70k range, in manual (because manual is fun,) and keep whatever the hell you are driving for the daily commute. What is nice about a gently used car is that if you realize owning something so expensive is more hassle than it is worth, you can sell it and not lose out on too much depreciation as compared to buying new. It will be less stressful to own, won't depreciate as fast, and you will now be set for having two cars in your garage. One fun car and the daily commuter which you will be able to continue for as long as your future spouse allows :)

Who knows, maybe you will get into high performance driving and do events on a road coarse where your cool car will be the most fun to drive and take to its limits.

I agree, life is short, money is meant to be spent, but understand the implications of the choice you are about to make.
This is exactly what I did, though it’s my daily. No commute. 305s/315s on soft compound with a ton of torque is definitely sketchy in the rain, you are borderline hydroplaning the entire time.

OldBallCoach
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by OldBallCoach » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:35 pm

GTR black edition. Fast, easy to repair and will do well in all weather. Its my Therapy machine after a tough week. Much cheaper than a mistress and if you drive it correctly a little safer. Hell yes...do it.

Steady59
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Steady59 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:51 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:37 pm
I always say, it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
Agreed. I hear too many stories about folks who get high HP cars and then are too scared to drive them (they are too fast) and can never get them anywhere near the limit. Do you want full on speed or the sensation of speed. There is a difference. The latter is generally much less expensive :happy .

My '75 BMW 2002, which I got for $12k two years ago, is way fun and thats with a whopping 100 HP. Of course, the car only weighs 2,200 lbs so the weight to HP ratio is still pretty good. I could get a complete motor rebuild and add another 50 HP for "even more fun" but don't really need it. Its been dead on reliable and I drive it every day. I can still get it sideways if I want and not at ridiculous speeds. Oh, and its appreciating.

Regardless of what you get, drive it!

bstewie
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by bstewie » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:54 pm

Steady59 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:51 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:37 pm
I always say, it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
Regardless of what you get, drive it!
:beer

tibbitts
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by tibbitts » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:07 pm

I didn't read every post but my question would be... why? As in what do you want to do with it? Do you want a sports car for looks? Street? Street and track? Or do you just want to drive aggressively? You can drive almost anything aggressively, as long as it's safe.

BanquetBeer
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by BanquetBeer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:40 pm

What happened to bogleheads?! This is uncharacteristically pro-spending significant money without considering income/savings/etc.

In the last 10 years, if you maxed out your 401k and Roth I'd guess you are hovering around $400k in retirement accounts. If you have $750k invested (no equity in a house either) then you only have maybe $350k in outside investments? To save up $350k in 10 years from cash flow that is probably an extra $20k/yr?

From $260k you are saving ~$55k? (estimating +$10k company match, assume 40k tax). Based on that MMM chart, you are saving ~25% take home and will need about 32 years (22 more years from now) to hit a 4% SWR retirement. But now we are talking about increasing spending? You live on a very high % of your income especially for your income range.

From someone similar who enjoys driving - I couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a car. I would worry every place I drove and every pot hole I hit. I enjoy knowing if I total my car tomorrow I could buy a new replacement in cash without a significant impact on my net or long term plan.

While you can buy it and make payments, as another commenter posted above - this will impact your life long financial goals and the future is unclear. High income people can get major promotions and make millions, stagnate comfortable at that salary level, or burn out and drop income significantly. I can't tell you what your future will be but I know that a sports car is not practical with kids and if you plan to have them, you're time is limited (right now you're 32 + 9 mo + 18 years so you would be 51 + however long it takes you to get to 'expecting' - not to mentions baby #2 that usually happens 2-4 years later). If you don't plan on kids I would be more approving financially of a sports car but would still suggest you keep it sub $60k based on your savings.

Cycle
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Cycle » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:48 pm

I used to want a sports car. Like OP I grew up seeing car ad after car ad.

Then when I was 32 I went car free, opting to bike / transit / Uber everywhere. Now years later I don't think much about cars. I'm a little confused even what all the hype is about, but then I recall these people have seen probably millions of advertisements about these very inefficient machines.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

EnjoyIt
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm

BanquetBeer wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:40 pm
What happened to bogleheads?! This is uncharacteristically pro-spending significant money without considering income/savings/etc.

In the last 10 years, if you maxed out your 401k and Roth I'd guess you are hovering around $400k in retirement accounts. If you have $750k invested (no equity in a house either) then you only have maybe $350k in outside investments? To save up $350k in 10 years from cash flow that is probably an extra $20k/yr?

From $260k you are saving ~$55k? (estimating +$10k company match, assume 40k tax). Based on that MMM chart, you are saving ~25% take home and will need about 32 years (22 more years from now) to hit a 4% SWR retirement. But now we are talking about increasing spending? You live on a very high % of your income especially for your income range.

From someone similar who enjoys driving - I couldn't bring myself to spend that much on a car. I would worry every place I drove and every pot hole I hit. I enjoy knowing if I total my car tomorrow I could buy a new replacement in cash without a significant impact on my net or long term plan.

While you can buy it and make payments, as another commenter posted above - this will impact your life long financial goals and the future is unclear. High income people can get major promotions and make millions, stagnate comfortable at that salary level, or burn out and drop income significantly. I can't tell you what your future will be but I know that a sports car is not practical with kids and if you plan to have them, you're time is limited (right now you're 32 + 9 mo + 18 years so you would be 51 + however long it takes you to get to 'expecting' - not to mentions baby #2 that usually happens 2-4 years later). If you don't plan on kids I would be more approving financially of a sports car but would still suggest you keep it sub $60k based on your savings.
Although I agree with your premise, bogleheads is not MMM. Many here are OK with 15%-20% savings rate and working till full retirement age. If this is a one off expense, then maybe it will cost OP 1-2 years of additional work to make up for the expense vs investing. If this is the beginning of a trend of lifestyle creep, then this is the beginning of a very poor financial mistake if one is looking for reasonably early financial independence.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters. | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418

randomguy
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by randomguy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm

BanquetBeer wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:40 pm
What happened to bogleheads?! This is uncharacteristically pro-spending significant money without considering income/savings/etc.

In the last 10 years, if you maxed out your 401k and Roth I'd guess you are hovering around $400k in retirement accounts. If you have $750k invested (no equity in a house either) then you only have maybe $350k in outside investments? To save up $350k in 10 years from cash flow that is probably an extra $20k/yr?

From $260k you are saving ~$55k? (estimating +$10k company match, assume 40k tax). Based on that MMM chart, you are saving ~25% take home and will need about 32 years (22 more years from now) to hit a 4% SWR retirement. But now we are talking about increasing spending? You live on a very high % of your income especially for your income range.

He is saving 90k/year. That is probably something like 50% of take home pay. I didn't see any evidence of career path so I have no clue if has been working since 22 or 28.

But the mistake you are making is confusing bogleheads for MMM. The OP is living below his means. That means buying a sports car is OK if it is spending that will improve his life. Go over to MMM if you want to hang out the people who goal is to live as cheap as possible instead of living below their means.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:57 pm

randomguy wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm
But the mistake you are making is confusing bogleheads for MMM. The OP is living below his means. That means buying a sports car is OK if it is spending that will improve his life. Go over to MMM if you want to hang out the people who goal is to live as cheap as possible instead of living below their means.
That is an unnecessary and cheap shot with a poor understanding of the people who frequent MMM forum.

I am in some agreement with BanquetBeer. Maybe 5 years ago a post like this would have been chastised significantly.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters. | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418

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TxAg
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by TxAg » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm

That's a lot of money!!...though, I'm not a "car guy"

What about a vintage muscle car? You could likely work on it yourself, or easily learn. It has some nostalgia. It goes fast. And it costs way less.

stoptothink
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by stoptothink » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:57 pm

TxAg wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
What about a vintage muscle car? You could likely work on it yourself, or easily learn. It has some nostalgia. It goes fast. And it costs way less.
Unless you get a $100k+ restomod, that vintage muscle car will run about head-to-head with most modern family sedans in a straight line, and be in the rear view mirror when it comes to stop or turn. They have their own appeal, but sports cars they definitely are not.

tibbitts
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by tibbitts » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

TxAg wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
That's a lot of money!!...though, I'm not a "car guy"

What about a vintage muscle car? You could likely work on it yourself, or easily learn. It has some nostalgia. It goes fast. And it costs way less.
Body work is almost always necessary for an older car of any variety, and it's not easy to produce professional results without experience/training, unless you are unusually talented.

decapod10
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by decapod10 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:30 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:57 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm
But the mistake you are making is confusing bogleheads for MMM. The OP is living below his means. That means buying a sports car is OK if it is spending that will improve his life. Go over to MMM if you want to hang out the people who goal is to live as cheap as possible instead of living below their means.
That is an unnecessary and cheap shot with a poor understanding of the people who frequent MMM forum.

I am in some agreement with BanquetBeer. Maybe 5 years ago a post like this would have been chastised significantly.
Not so sure. I did a quick search for "sports car" in the search box and this was the first result from 2013

viewtopic.php?t=113665

Unfortunately the details of OP have been erased, but the responses are quite similar to this one. Discussion about various Porsche models, complaints about humblebragging, etc, but responses seem mostly positive about buying the car. I assume it was some sort of Porsche

wootwoot
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by wootwoot » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:38 pm

tim1999 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:39 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:28 pm

The "can I afford this house" threads are one thing, but IMO most of these "can I afford this car" threads are thinly-veiled humblebrags.
Agreed.
Most "can I afford it" threads posted here are.

That being said, OP go for it! The new Vette is really impressive.

smitcat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:03 pm

Cycle wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:48 pm
I used to want a sports car. Like OP I grew up seeing car ad after car ad.

Then when I was 32 I went car free, opting to bike / transit / Uber everywhere. Now years later I don't think much about cars. I'm a little confused even what all the hype is about, but then I recall these people have seen probably millions of advertisements about these very inefficient machines.
Fortunately I never lost my love for cars - or the zoo, ore ball games or a large amount of other things.
Doing many varied things in life is something we like - everyone is different.
YMMV

KyleAAA
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:08 pm

You can easily afford it. Go used and your dollar will stretch a LOT further.

alter
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by alter » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:22 pm

I can't afford a sports car and don't have the extra garage space anyway so I bought a $7k motorcycle that will accelerate almost as fast as those sports cars ;). But if I had the means I would buy the car..... there are a lot worse things to spend money on.

jinx
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by jinx » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:34 pm

Went through a similar dilemma two years back. Bought a CPO 911 (991.1) manual transmission. No regrets. Most of the depreciation has occurred and it makes my commute/errands so much fun!

Cycle
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Cycle » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:14 pm

smitcat wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:03 pm
Cycle wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:48 pm
I used to want a sports car. Like OP I grew up seeing car ad after car ad.

Then when I was 32 I went car free, opting to bike / transit / Uber everywhere. Now years later I don't think much about cars. I'm a little confused even what all the hype is about, but then I recall these people have seen probably millions of advertisements about these very inefficient machines.
Fortunately I never lost my love for cars - or the zoo, ore ball games or a large amount of other things.
Doing many varied things in life is something we like - everyone is different.
YMMV
You're describing every car ad ive ever seen, I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek

If I want to go surfing, I'm going to need to buy a Jeep. I can't tailgate at a ballgame without an F-150.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

Bacchus01
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 pm

azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:33 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:48 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:39 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:32 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:27 pm


Obviously, you can do whatever you want, but if you did not want to hear possible counter arguments to your question, then why ask it in the first place?
I do want counter arguments based on financials, not based on “douche factor”.
If you're willing to be more frugal and can settle for close to the 40K range, if "douche factor" is absolutely zero concern as you're suggesting (ohai's words not mine, I'm too scared of the mods), then get a Civic Type-R. I understand the car is incredible to drive on a track, and should give you all kinds of fun. But some might think of feminine hygiene products if you're seen driving it?

Now if you do care about that (I definitely do at 47 as a supervisor Fed, so no Type-R for me), I'd recommend the Golf R. It'll come with AWD, ~ 300HP, and can get it with a dual-clutch transmission. And if it's not enough horsepower, you can tune it with APR/Unitronics, and get that in the 400-500HP range. But to most people, it'll just look like a Golf. So total stealth fun.
Whatever you do, don’t do this.
Don't do what, exactly? I listed the 2 best hot hatches in the 40K range.
Who cares. Those aren’t sports cars and unless you want to look like a teenager and pay massive depreciation, don’t ever buy one.

Bacchus01
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm

azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.

Mickey7
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Mickey7 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:47 pm

Can you do it? Yes.

Have you done your homework? That's up to you. There is more to it than splashy ads. Being this will be your only car will you be alright in the commute? If you are not sure rent something that is somewhat comparable for a week. That will be pricey, but it will give you a feel for it without the commitment. Then if everything feels right go for it.

We all get an itch. Sometimes we scratch it and feel better. Sometimes we find out it was a rash and should not have scratched it.

JackoC
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JackoC » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:15 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:57 pm
randomguy wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm
But the mistake you are making is confusing bogleheads for MMM. The OP is living below his means. That means buying a sports car is OK if it is spending that will improve his life. Go over to MMM if you want to hang out the people who goal is to live as cheap as possible instead of living below their means.
That is an unnecessary and cheap shot with a poor understanding of the people who frequent MMM forum.

I am in some agreement with BanquetBeer. Maybe 5 years ago a post like this would have been chastised significantly.
Bolded: if true, I'd rate that an improvement in the forum that it's not 'chastised' now. :D

But seriously folks, besides the obvious 'do what you want it's your money', the person could find after a couple of years that it wasn't worth it in enjoyment to put that significant a % of income/assets into a car. No big harm if so in this person's financial situation, even to take 3 yrs depreciation and move down market. Or they could be in love with the car for many years to come, also not a problem. The problem would be if it created an intense desire for up to $100k+ *cars at relatively frequent intervals without the income going up a lot. But it's completely speculative to project that, really the answer to a future question ('OK should I start leasing $100k+ Porsche's every 3 yrs?') not the current question.

*as noted by me before and others, a Porsche that starts at $98k is going to be considerably more with options you'll find in dealer stock, and likely if you do 'build your own' and order. I quickly BYO'd a 2020 Boxster Spyder and it came out $116k MSRP as I'd like it, if I'd like it. Somebody said Porsche's are great and BMW's are garbage. AFAIK they both offer great vehicles and both offer ones I wouldn't buy (SUV's and big clunky monsters like Panamera or 7 series), but currently I love my M2, and another M is a strong candidate for next time, though not a lock.

pennylane
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by pennylane » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:25 pm

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:08 pm
It’s not allowable to post about a potential sports car purchase without posting which car it is you are looking at. This gives the other forum members the opportunity to either 1) live vicariously through you or 2) recommend a different car, typically the one they drive. :D
Some Tesla fanboi will be along shortly. And someone will suggest a Toyota.
Sorry I’m late


Definitely check out a Tesla Model 3 performance or a Model S. You will be pleasantly surprised how fun of a drive it is. You can also drive it everyday and will blow pretty much any car out the water in terms of acceleration.

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JonnyDVM
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JonnyDVM » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:44 pm

If you want it you can have it. I’m not much of a car guy. Just looking at it objectively.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns

Gnirk
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Gnirk » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:45 pm

260chrisb wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:29 pm
JUST DO IT! But first; take your time, do your research, buy used, have PPI done at a qualified independent unless it's under warrantee still, and drive it! It's just a car. If you change your mind you sell it. Cover yourself on the buy in the event you change your mind!!
Buy it and enjoy it while you're young!!!
Do your research, do some serious test drives, and then buy a low-miles used car from that potbellied old man who can't get in and out of it anymore. I know plenty of guys who bought their first sports car in their late 60's. They would have loved to have bought it when they were in their 30's, but couldn't afford it.

Jeep4Life
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Jeep4Life » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:09 am

I've owned a convertible since 1983 in one form or another. Nothing more fun on the road, forget the horsepower. Bad weather comes and goes, but the smile on your face will remain. Go for it!

CoastalWinds
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by CoastalWinds » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:15 am

OT question: if you are single with no kids, why do you have life insurance?

visualguy
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by visualguy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:50 am

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:55 pm
If this is the beginning of a trend of lifestyle creep, then this is the beginning of a very poor financial mistake if one is looking for reasonably early financial independence.
Yes, this is the biggest problem with these purchases in my experience. Once you make that leap, you tend to want to do it again and again, and don't feel like going back to something less exciting. Doing it once isn't too bad if you're in a good financial situation, but doing it repeatedly is a whole different ballgame, and adds up with time to a very significant drain on resources.

bstewie
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by bstewie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:36 am

pennylane wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:25 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:08 pm
It’s not allowable to post about a potential sports car purchase without posting which car it is you are looking at. This gives the other forum members the opportunity to either 1) live vicariously through you or 2) recommend a different car, typically the one they drive. :D
Some Tesla fanboi will be along shortly. And someone will suggest a Toyota.
Sorry I’m late


Definitely check out a Tesla Model 3 performance or a Model S. You will be pleasantly surprised how fun of a drive it is. You can also drive it everyday and will blow pretty much any car out the water in terms of acceleration.
If the goal is fun “around town” I can get on board with this train of thought. If the goal is occasional track time... good luck with a tesla...

smitcat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by smitcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:11 am

Cycle wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:14 pm
smitcat wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:03 pm
Cycle wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:48 pm
I used to want a sports car. Like OP I grew up seeing car ad after car ad.

Then when I was 32 I went car free, opting to bike / transit / Uber everywhere. Now years later I don't think much about cars. I'm a little confused even what all the hype is about, but then I recall these people have seen probably millions of advertisements about these very inefficient machines.
Fortunately I never lost my love for cars - or the zoo, ore ball games or a large amount of other things.
Doing many varied things in life is something we like - everyone is different.
YMMV
You're describing every car ad ive ever seen, I'm not sure if that was tongue in cheek

If I want to go surfing, I'm going to need to buy a Jeep. I can't tailgate at a ballgame without an F-150.
Not describing any car ad - sorry they have so much interest for you.
Do not surf - but I like zoo's so I go to them frequently, not sure if I ever saw an add for the Zoo or not.
We try and do most anything that we like , such is life.
Cars are one thing we like - we have had plenty of them, as well as many other things that we like.

"I used to want a sports car" - your quote , we did as well so we had a few.

wrongfunds
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by wrongfunds » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am

My '75 BMW 2002, which I got for $12k two years ago
IS there a typo? Later in the paragraph, he also mentions being able to afford the entire engine rebuild on it if needed. Something is not computing.

Pacman
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Pacman » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:24 am

On the financials, 2 years ago you made a post where you were receiving a windfall and were at a 28% tax bracket in 2017. How much of the $750K net worth relates to your own savings vs. the windfall? You don't need to answer this obviously, however, in my opinion if the overwhelming amount of your net worth relates to the windfall, then I might reconsider the purchase for multiple reasons (i.e. needing to up your savings rate, intentions from the people who gave you this, etc.).

If you personally saved most of your net worth, then proceed. However, you should be on track to get to a cool million in like 2 years so I would personally go for that. You could also consider WhiteCoatInvestor's rule of never buying a new car until you have a million dollars in assets. Having a sports car + 1 million in net worth is more impressive than sports car + $650K... but this isn't a contest.

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JoeRetire
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JoeRetire » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:31 am

misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:04 pm
Since I was a kid, I’ve always dreamed of having a sports car. I want to do it in my lifetime. How much longer do I need to wait? Or, can I pull the trigger now?
Do it now. YOLO!
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azanon
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:13 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:33 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:48 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:39 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:32 pm


I do want counter arguments based on financials, not based on “douche factor”.
If you're willing to be more frugal and can settle for close to the 40K range, if "douche factor" is absolutely zero concern as you're suggesting (ohai's words not mine, I'm too scared of the mods), then get a Civic Type-R. I understand the car is incredible to drive on a track, and should give you all kinds of fun. But some might think of feminine hygiene products if you're seen driving it?

Now if you do care about that (I definitely do at 47 as a supervisor Fed, so no Type-R for me), I'd recommend the Golf R. It'll come with AWD, ~ 300HP, and can get it with a dual-clutch transmission. And if it's not enough horsepower, you can tune it with APR/Unitronics, and get that in the 400-500HP range. But to most people, it'll just look like a Golf. So total stealth fun.
Whatever you do, don’t do this.
Don't do what, exactly? I listed the 2 best hot hatches in the 40K range.
Who cares. Those aren’t sports cars and unless you want to look like a teenager and pay massive depreciation, don’t ever buy one.
Look like a teenager in a (Golf) GTI?!? That's about the most understated looking car on the road And I think if he, with his income, bought something that inexpensive, depreciation is going to be the thing furthest from his list. Besides, why sell such a wonderful car (bought my 11' GTI new, and still have it).
Last edited by azanon on Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

azanon
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by azanon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:19 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 pm
I’m buying a C8 myself. Picking up a C7Z06 with low miles would also check all the boxes.
You should be able to get a good price on that C8 cause you'll be one of the few that actually wants one. As I understand it, about half of the Corvette community is very upset at that new design where Chevrolet seems to have been trying to design a Ferrari knockoff, and it looks like Donald Trump designed that wall between the two front seats. And a Corvette almost by definition is front-engine.
Well, you’re wrong and I have no idea where you’ve heard that. I know people that literally bought a C7 in the last month and already sold it for the C8. CorvetteForum loves the car.
"Why are Corvette owners so adverse to change?"
post at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/ ... to_change/ A clip of the OP: "I joined a C7 forum when I was car shopping a few years back and still pop in here and there. There is an overwhelming negativity towards the C8, with people comparing it to a 1990's NSX. These are the same people with 400 miles on their 2014 C7 who only take it out of the garage to wash it."

There are 469 comments to that post. In other words, it's not exactly getting dismissed.

pennylane
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by pennylane » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:22 am

bstewie wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:36 am
pennylane wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:25 pm
whodidntante wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:11 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:08 pm
It’s not allowable to post about a potential sports car purchase without posting which car it is you are looking at. This gives the other forum members the opportunity to either 1) live vicariously through you or 2) recommend a different car, typically the one they drive. :D
Some Tesla fanboi will be along shortly. And someone will suggest a Toyota.
Sorry I’m late


Definitely check out a Tesla Model 3 performance or a Model S. You will be pleasantly surprised how fun of a drive it is. You can also drive it everyday and will blow pretty much any car out the water in terms of acceleration.
If the goal is fun “around town” I can get on board with this train of thought. If the goal is occasional track time... good luck with a tesla...

Actually, you’re wrong. Look up track videos of the model 3 performance vs BMW M2 and Audi RS3 as well as others in its class, beats most of them or comes within milliseconds of them. The day’s of Tesla’s just being great on a straightaway are gone, they’re tracking good times as well. I own a Tesla and it’s hands down the greatest car I have ever driven - I have driven pretty much any exotic you can think of.

Even if the Tesla wasn’t good on the track which it is - who cares, how often do people track? It’s a great car all the way around.

alfaspider
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by alfaspider » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:26 am

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:33 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:48 pm
azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:39 pm
misterg wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:32 pm


I do want counter arguments based on financials, not based on “douche factor”.
If you're willing to be more frugal and can settle for close to the 40K range, if "douche factor" is absolutely zero concern as you're suggesting (ohai's words not mine, I'm too scared of the mods), then get a Civic Type-R. I understand the car is incredible to drive on a track, and should give you all kinds of fun. But some might think of feminine hygiene products if you're seen driving it?

Now if you do care about that (I definitely do at 47 as a supervisor Fed, so no Type-R for me), I'd recommend the Golf R. It'll come with AWD, ~ 300HP, and can get it with a dual-clutch transmission. And if it's not enough horsepower, you can tune it with APR/Unitronics, and get that in the 400-500HP range. But to most people, it'll just look like a Golf. So total stealth fun.
Whatever you do, don’t do this.
Don't do what, exactly? I listed the 2 best hot hatches in the 40K range.
Who cares. Those aren’t sports cars and unless you want to look like a teenager and pay massive depreciation, don’t ever buy one.
The top tier hot hatches (Golf R, Focus RS, STI (not a hatch but same concept), Civic Type R actually have very shallow depreciation curve- about as shallow you will get on a non-limited production car.

As far as what is a “sport car”- it’s a silly semantic exercise. But I would say the Miata is practically the platonic form of what I would consider a “sports car”-
A car built exclusively for enjoyment and driver engagement. The ND2s are a lot quicker than most people realize.

To the OP: if a Miata doesn’t have the grunt you want, consider something like a c5 z06 Corvette. They are great track cars, still crazy quick, and under $20k with not much depreciation ahead of them. If you decide you want to turn up the wick, sell it for what you paid after a year or two and get a c8.

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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am

So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
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Goal33
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Goal33 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:47 am

I have similar sounding expenses and income. I’m 28 and have same net worth (meaning I am slightly ahead, and don’t see your 750k as being hugely ahead for your age)

That being said I also have a similar desire for sports car. 2 years ago I bought an 18 year old sports car in good shape (maybe got lucky that previous owner maintained it so well). And just recently sold it for a break even. I got my fix and only laid out 5k upfront. Scratches and such still bothered me, but less than if I paid the 100k it was new in 1999. Unfortunately with the age it probably wasn’t as safe as something more modern and definitely couldn’t go as fast as the more modern engines.

You don’t have to go as used as I did but I would definitely suggest something a bit cheaper that’s used.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

lightheir
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by lightheir » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:53 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
I could be wrong but I did see on some website that there is an insurance issue with running Teslas on tracks that makes them not allowed. Something about the lithium ion battery flame risk and the difficulty in putting out those flames with standard extinguisher protocols that tracks currently have. Someone more knowlegable could pitch in here.

alfaspider
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by alfaspider » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:54 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
This owner has written up his Model 3 track days:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread. ... gian&amp=1

It will go a full session, though it doesn’t have sufficient charge for a full 4 -5 session day.

alfaspider
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by alfaspider » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:55 am

lightheir wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:53 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
I could be wrong but I did see on some website that there is an insurance issue with running Teslas on tracks that makes them not allowed. Something about the lithium ion battery flame risk and the difficulty in putting out those flames with standard extinguisher protocols that tracks currently have. Someone more knowlegable could pitch in here.
There have been some drag strips that outlaw electrics, but I know of no road course that has. The fire risk is actually less than gas, and water will work fine, but it’s harder to guarantee a fire is fully extinguished with electric.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:24 am

alfaspider wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:54 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
This owner has written up his Model 3 track days:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread. ... gian&amp=1

It will go a full session, though it doesn’t have sufficient charge for a full 4 -5 session day.
I was about to post how a Tesla can't run on a track day because it does not have enough charge to run all 4-5 sessions. I would bet 2 sessions would be the limit unless there was a supercharger at or near the track.
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bstewie
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by bstewie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:12 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:24 am
alfaspider wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:54 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
This owner has written up his Model 3 track days:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread. ... gian&amp=1

It will go a full session, though it doesn’t have sufficient charge for a full 4 -5 session day.
I was about to post how a Tesla can't run on a track day because it does not have enough charge to run all 4-5 sessions. I would bet 2 sessions would be the limit unless there was a supercharger at or near the track.
Correct, also have to account for round trip commute to and from the track unless you’re going to put your model 3 on a trailer :twisted: Having driven one I can’t help but say he’s full of .... regarding brake fatigue

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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by FireSekr » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:20 pm

azanon wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:49 pm
WhiteMaxima wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:26 pm
A Honda Civic Si (25K)
a VW Golf GTI (25K)
a Mazda Miata ((30K)
all these are sporty car within 30k budget
Those are sporty. Those are NOT sports cars.
Name your idea of a sports car under 30K then, and I'll list the many ways those first 2 outperform whatever you pick. (I'm not defending the Miata though)
I’ve driven every car on that list. The Miata is the best of the 3 hands down. I don’t care how much faster the others are or how much power they have. The Miata is just more fun and rewarding to drive. One that’s not on the list is the BRZ/Toyota 86. Yes it’s underpowered and the engine kind of sucks, but it’s so good in so many ways it’s just a blast to drive and you forget about the deficiencies.

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Kenkat
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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by Kenkat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
Here’s an article you might enjoy:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/r ... rack-test/

Tesla Model 3 is actually pretty competent on the track and less limited than I would have guessed. That said, I doubt many people buy these cars with the intent to take them to through a track course. And lots of performance cars discussed regularly on the forum cannot use most of their performance capabilities on the street - at least not without being a complete idiot and putting yourself and others at risk.

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Re: Insane to buy a sports car?

Post by JackoC » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:03 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:39 am
So as someone with thousands of track laps under his belt, I wanted to find something to show that the model 3 would indeed get through a single 20 minute track session. I found no such thing. I did find many, many 3 lap romps by various drivers with good things to say about the handling, acceleration and brakes. But none completed a 20 minute session that I found. Any "normal" track day would have 4 20 minute sessions with competition club practice days adding a 5th session "happy hour" for all class cars interested in burning all remaining daylight. Yes, some of us do run cars on the track. Its one of the best ways to actually learn how to drive.
Here’s an article you might enjoy:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/r ... rack-test/

Tesla Model 3 is actually pretty competent on the track and less limited than I would have guessed. That said, I doubt many people buy these cars with the intent to take them to track. And lots of performance cars discussed regularly on the forum cannot use most of their performance capabilities on the street - at last not without being a complete idiot and putting yourself and others at risk.
Inevitable Tesla derail. :(

The other thing it can't do is exciting driving on extremely isolated roads where you're not an idiot to have fun with the performance of an M2, there's nobody else around. But the next gas station might be 90 miles away, forget finding then sitting around at a charger. :happy

The other thing in that regard actually relevant to a Boxster/Cayman would be space. We found the M2 adequate in space for all our stuff on two week road trip, including our hiking stuff, wife likes to bring own food, etc. Though it's strictly a two person car on such a trip. A 718 (Boxster/Cayman) couldn't do that. And locally the M2 is 4 person car for short hops and Cayman strictly two. That's one of my reasons for preferring the M, having considered the Cayman, besides Cayman would cost more as I'd like it equipped and I don't think there's a huge difference in driving fun. A 911 at considerably higher price point is somewhere in between in practicality with the 'kinda' back seat you can't really sit on but can hold some more stuff. Just no interest in Tesla on any level, of course to each his or her own.

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