Long commute: how to manage?

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fallingeggs
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by fallingeggs » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:09 pm

Another here for buying a car that will drive itself in stop and go traffic. Tesla, Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi all have great systems that really work. The mid tier companies are close or will be there soon. Test drive them all and prove it to yourself. If a lease or new isn’t an option, most models coming off lease should have the tech, so buy certified preowned. This stuff is made for people with terrible commutes.

In addition to general podcasts, I’m also a big fan of the Economist, which has each week’s issue recorded in a soothing British voice. No comment on what the topic might do to your blood pressure...

KlangFool
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by KlangFool » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:16 pm

OP,

Is it possible for you to rent a room at your old location and live there during the weekday?

KlangFool

Afty
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Afty » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:35 pm

I hate to be one of those Tesla people, but I have a Model 3 and use Autopilot every day, and I find it to be a lifesaver in stop-and-go highway driving. In that situation, it is very reliable and takes away so much stress. Do you still have to pay attention? Yes, certainly. But there’s very little you actually have to do. You don’t have to hit the accelerator and brake. You don’t have to be on guard for traffic to suddenly stop. You don’t have to steer.

Consider buying a car with good lane keeping and adaptive cruise control. It really makes a huge difference. The Cadillac system is very well reviewed, if you are not interested in a Tesla.

JBTX
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by JBTX » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:10 am

I've had 45 minute to 1 hour commutes off and on over the last 20 years. You just get used to it. It becomes routine. As long as the traffic is not dead stopped it isn't so bad. In the past NPR would fill the void. Now podcasts make it even more tolerable, and if a good one even enjoyable.

The big downside is that it extends your work day. You don't have time to work out, less time with family.

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tooluser
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by tooluser » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:15 am

Speak with your spouse and children while you are commuting, if they are around and awake. Even a brief contact can be refreshing for all parties (or exasperating; maintain your sense of humor).

This from a single no-kids guy who often fields questions from my boss or others while they commute. Working while commuting counts as work, by the way.

Note that that's one way. I find that I can't listen to books on tape or phone calls or anything like that while driving. I can listen to things I can ignore, like the radio, or music. Commuting is my time to hone my driving skills, make long-term plans, ponder the fate of the universe.

h82goslw
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by h82goslw » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:38 am

20 plus years of spending 3 to 4 hours commuting daily to clients’ locations across 4 states. I have kept my sanity because of Howard Stern. YMMV

RobLyons
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by RobLyons » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:31 am

Cardio wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:23 pm
My daily commute is about to increase from 15 minutes one way to over 1 hour, most highway with intermittent, unpredictable heavy traffic. The reasons are complex, but essentially our family needs to move closer to aging relatives with declining health. Getting a new job closer to our new home would mean a 40% pay cut and loss of nearly 20 years of seniority in my current position. So we are renting a house near the aging family and putting the kids into new schools, while I keep my current job.

Every study has shown that long commutes decrease happiness and increase the risk of martial strife. Currently my life and marriage are happy, and I want to keep it that way!

Any practical suggestions on how to deal with a long commute?
There is no public transportation between the new home and work.
Uber/Lyft is about $70-75 one way.
I cannot work from home or adjust my work hours to a more commute-friendly time.
The seat of my 2012 Honda Pilot is rock hard and hurts my back after driving an hour, but the car is otherwise in great shape.

Edited for clarity.

I have commuted about 40min - 1hr each way for the past 7 years.

Things that make the commute easier:
Understanding wife and kids
Carpooling
Relaxing/Driving slower than most traffic
Music/podcasts
Comfortable newer car


I would seriously consider trading in/selling private party that Pilot. For comfort AND fuel efficiency. 18/25 is terrible compared to most cars today.
Best of luck
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

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Nestegg_User
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Nestegg_User » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:55 am

Cardio

I'd echo some of the ideas upthread:

a) see if you can adjust your hours
(sometimes a shift of only an hour in the morning can reduce the traffic and resultant stress.... but start early so that you fight less traffic ). I did that my last 17 years, where I had a minimum 45 in/ 1 1/4 back. {I also varied my return at times... helps one keep paying attention as one is less likely to be on "auto mode"}

b) work from home for projects that allow that
(not all positions are flexible; I had to go in all the time (no work from home) in that job....could occasionally in a prior position)

c) see if there's flexibility to do "four nines" (9 hours one week, then nine for three with one eight), as it shifts your exit time a little but eliminates one full day ( and commuting costs). (I found that there wasn't much effect on the return....still 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 hour, but that the surge had already occurred beforehand and thus knew which route was impacted by slower/stopped traffic. I also planned that my one day off was on a monday - It allows for one to fully appreciate the weekend as one doesn't have the dreaded commute to look forward to and I seemed to think that drivers were just a little more aggressive/hostile on monday mornings versus other workdays )

I didn't listen to podcasts nor books on tape as I needed to keep a steady lookout for "crazy drivers". (you might want to even get a dashcam ... see other threads on those). You don't want to be one of those distracted drivers.

In your OP, you said rent new house near parents.... you never mentioned selling the old one.... did you? Based on your comments on schools (and prior comments on DW being assaulted near/at them) I can't imagine that the area is conducive to your family returning to that area...and it would also be clear that it wouldn't be good for keeping as a rental property.

squirm
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by squirm » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:04 am

Not sure what the big deal is. My commute is an hour and half one way...

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mrspock
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by mrspock » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:23 am

I have a pretty long commute, averaging 1h 45m round trip, and I've done this for more than 5 years. Here's how I handle it:

1. Podcasts as others have mentioned, I turn the time into value by educating myself on various topics (almost every financial podcast you can imagine)
2. Audiobooks - You can burn through a book maybe every 4-5 days, again turn wasted time into value.
3. Pitstop - I make a pitstop on my way each morning to break it up. I stop at my favourite place for a coffee, sit down for a moment, take note of the day, collect my thoughts. This goes a long way into making it feel not so long.
4. Commute Time - I commute off-peak to keep traffic tolerable, otherwise my commute would be closer to 3hrs (!!) round-trip.

... that said, I second those who suggested a compromise solution which might be to move closer...but not as close as might be possible (remember, you have a spectrum of options here, don't get tricked into a false choice). Family is important, but your own health (and that of your partner) and well being must come first. If you aren't healthy, and of a good state of mind, you won't be able to be there for your family, so it would defeat the purpose of moving closer in the first place.

Could you not move the ailing family member closer to your existing location? Or re-locate to a home with an in-law suite, or guest house? This might ultimately be a better arrangement if you can manage it.

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Noble Knight
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Noble Knight » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:51 am

Several people at my workplace are able to work from home 2-3 days a week. If your job can be performed at home ask your manager and word drop the word “children” to increase your chances.

jibantik
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by jibantik » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:55 am

Audiobooks hands down. I actually look forward to my commutes if I have a good book going.

dbr
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by dbr » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:03 am

Since the move is a done deal due to needs of both elderly family members and younger family members (schools and neighborhood) we need to hear from the OP regarding whether suggestions to work at home and work a four day week can be arranged. The long term plan if not possible in the short run might be to find an acceptable job closer to home. It is not clear to us what the employment situation is. When I was working changing employers to work in a different neighborhood would have been totally unrealistic, but my commute was twenty minutes and not in traffic.

Otherwise, I'm sorry.

chevca
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by chevca » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:07 am

Another long commuter here, and meaning to look into the audio book or podcast thing at some point.

On real bad days, my long commute can double in time due to traffic. I looked up and found alternate routes to take on those days. It's actually a few more miles and doesn't really save time on these alternate route days, but at least I'm moving. And, it takes me through some nice little towns and pretty scenery. That's been a sanity saver for me. Stop and go traffic drives me mad! It's not completely avoidable, but I'll go out of my way to avoid as much as I can of it.

fru-gal
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by fru-gal » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:30 am

I haven't had time to read all the replies.

Get a cushion and also fiddle with the seat adjustments until it's comfortable. Or replace the car.

I had a commute of that length. It really isn't that bad once you get used to it. I would not assume your marriage or happiness is going into the bit bucket, that's well, nonsense.

Audio books, music, learn a language tapes, pbs almost always has interesting discussions on. My area has two pbs stations I can get on the car radio.

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Cardio
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Cardio » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:13 pm

dbr wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:03 am
Since the move is a done deal due to needs of both elderly family members and younger family members (schools and neighborhood) we need to hear from the OP regarding whether suggestions to work at home and work a four day week can be arranged. The long term plan if not possible in the short run might be to find an acceptable job closer to home. It is not clear to us what the employment situation is. When I was working changing employers to work in a different neighborhood would have been totally unrealistic, but my commute was twenty minutes and not in traffic.

Otherwise, I'm sorry.

OP here. Thanks for all the responses! I will definitely look into podcasts, audiobooks, and a more comfortable and/or semi-autonomous car.

Re living somewhere between the current house and the relatives, or moving the relatives closer to us: we looked into that. No good options, without going into every detail.

Re my job, I'm a physician, a partner in a private practice in a rural but HCOL area. In my current position, I earn a little below the national average for my field. Closer to my relatives, my field is extremely saturated, and the typical job is a employee/nonpartner track job, with pay about the 20th percentile, a higher workload than my current position, and much less autonomy. No part time options. Can't work from home or change my work hours.

Because I currently work about 60-70 hours/week, the extra commute is a big deal, and I do worry about fatigue and crashing my car (unlikely) or being cranky to the family (more likely). So all the good suggestions are appreciated. Hope this clarifies things.

bstewie
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by bstewie » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:26 pm

OP, years ago I endured a long commute: ~3h each way. I love driving, but at the same time I hate driving in traffic. I didn’t love the commute, but it made financial sense at the time and in retrospect I would do it again (work was thoroughly enjoyable onsite). Saving 20 minutes each way by driving aggressive didn’t make sense to me. I would regularly coast in the truck lane to reduce the stress caused by the accordion effect. I also found my commute times aligned well with off time for certain family members. I found spending time on the phone on rotation with different family members more enjoyable than podcasts.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by jabberwockOG » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:26 pm

Cardio wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:48 pm
badger42 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:27 pm
Assuming you haven't already signed on the dotted line... is there a reason you can't move the relatives closer to you instead?
We considered that idea, but they have very few friends who speak their native language, and they are already super depressed from their health issues. Also, the school district in our area is going down the tubes, so we were strongly considering a move anyway.
Never a good idea to significantly increase a commute. Suggest you move the parents or you all both move to a single better location, maybe in a bigger house or one with live in area instead of disrupting your family, adding a long commute, and potentially adversely affecting your career.

02nz
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by 02nz » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:37 pm

The Tesla suggestion has already been made but I think it's worth underscoring how much sense EVs make in a situation like yours. Assuming 30K miles per year, your Pilot will cost just over $4K a year in gas (EPA combined 20 MPG, national average price of $2.74/gallon). A car like the Kia Niro EV would cost just over $1K to charge (at national average of $0.13/KWHr - this can be less as some utilities offer cheaper overnight or EV charging rates). That's a saving of $3K/year right there, and EVs generally cost less to maintain (much less use of friction brakes due to regenerative braking; no engine or transmission; electric powertrain is actually far simpler than ICE car and generally warranted for 8+ years).

Electric cars are much smoother and quieter, and so I find them much less fatiguing to drive over long distances. All the EVs are available with options like radar cruise control, lane keep assist, and the like.

You'll likely need to install an L2 charger at home, but that's less than $1K installed, and many utilities offer incentives for this. There's a $7500 federal income tax credit for all makers' EVs except Tesla and GM (the credit is nonrefundable so it can't make your tax liability negative). There are also various state incentives - e.g., $2500 rebate and HOV lane sticker in CA.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm

When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

stoptothink
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by stoptothink » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
Yeahhh....no.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:54 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
Yeahhh....no.
Shouldn't you be changing an oil filter...or worrying about which octane fuel to put into your coal roller?
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

Momus
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Momus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 am
Get a Tesla with full self driving. It'll do 90+% of the commute for you and take away a lot of the fatigue of this trip, leaving you fresh for your family on arrival.

The Model X specifically is considered one of the safest, if not the safest vehicle on the road. During NHTSA testing, Tesla was unable to flip over the vehicle.
Will not trust this yet. You will probably die on a highway lol

Wait 5 more yrs

stoptothink
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by stoptothink » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:00 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:54 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
Yeahhh....no.
Shouldn't you be changing an oil filter...or worrying about which octane fuel to put into your coal roller?
Electric cars still represent <2% of new car sales and that is not because 98% of the population likes spending more money and/or has no functioning brain. There is no electric car available for <$35k, the $22k delta between the new cost of my jetta and the cheapest e-car buys quite a bit of gas and maintenance. I likely won't buy another ICE car, but your statement was pretty ridiculous hyperbole at this point. In a decade, maybe.

Trader Joe
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Trader Joe » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:01 pm

Cardio wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:23 pm
My daily commute is about to increase from 15 minutes one way to over 1 hour, most highway with intermittent, unpredictable heavy traffic. The reasons are complex, but essentially our family needs to move closer to aging relatives with declining health. Getting a new job closer to our new home would mean a 40% pay cut and loss of nearly 20 years of seniority in my current position. So we are renting a house near the aging family and putting the kids into new schools, while I keep my current job.

Every study has shown that long commutes decrease happiness and increase the risk of martial strife. Currently my life and marriage are happy, and I want to keep it that way!

Any practical suggestions on how to deal with a long commute?
There is no public transportation between the new home and work.
Uber/Lyft is about $70-75 one way.
I cannot work from home or adjust my work hours to a more commute-friendly time.
The seat of my 2012 Honda Pilot is rock hard and hurts my back after driving an hour, but the car is otherwise in great shape.

Edited for clarity.
Talk to your manager. If your 20 years of seniority means anything, you will be allowed to work remotely. Best of luck.

Momus
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Momus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:06 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:00 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:54 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
Yeahhh....no.
Shouldn't you be changing an oil filter...or worrying about which octane fuel to put into your coal roller?
Electric cars still represent <2% of new car sales and that is not because 98% of the population likes spending more money and/or has no functioning brain. There is no electric car available for <$35k, the $22k delta between the new cost of my jetta and the cheapest e-car buys quite a bit of gas and maintenance. I likely won't buy another ICE car, but your statement was pretty ridiculous hyperbole at this point. In a decade, maybe.
I got a new 2019 Elantra limited for 17k, 100k miles warranty, 5 yr free roadside assistance. Pretty happy with 40mpg highway. Darn Cheap new car for commuting. Most likely I save a lot on initial cost vs. Additional cost by buying hybrid/electric.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:09 pm

Momus wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 am
Get a Tesla with full self driving. It'll do 90+% of the commute for you and take away a lot of the fatigue of this trip, leaving you fresh for your family on arrival.

The Model X specifically is considered one of the safest, if not the safest vehicle on the road. During NHTSA testing, Tesla was unable to flip over the vehicle.
Will not trust this yet. You will probably die on a highway lol

Wait 5 more yrs
Another "internet expert" with no relevant personal experience making commentary on something they know nothing about.

Like the original poster, I'm a physician that has no problems putting my family in these cars. Most of my colleagues are also Tesla owners, as are the myriad of friends and family members that are engineers and pilots.

You could believe Momus....or the NHSTA.... www.nhsta.gov
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

Bdouvs
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Bdouvs » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:13 pm

You should consder renting an inexpensive apartment to stay during the work week.

Momus
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Momus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:14 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:09 pm
Momus wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 am
Get a Tesla with full self driving. It'll do 90+% of the commute for you and take away a lot of the fatigue of this trip, leaving you fresh for your family on arrival.

The Model X specifically is considered one of the safest, if not the safest vehicle on the road. During NHTSA testing, Tesla was unable to flip over the vehicle.
Will not trust this yet. You will probably die on a highway lol

Wait 5 more yrs
Another "internet expert" with no relevant personal experience making commentary on something they know nothing about.

Like the original poster, I'm a physician that has no problems putting my family in these cars. Most of my colleagues are also Tesla owners, as are the myriad of friends and family members that are engineers and pilots.

You could believe Momus....or the NHSTA.... www.nhsta.gov
Not gonna trust it still.

Mr.BB
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Mr.BB » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:26 pm

I usually drive 2-3 hrs for work can day. Try some audio books it helps pass the time.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

7eight9
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by 7eight9 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:37 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:09 pm
Momus wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 am
Get a Tesla with full self driving. It'll do 90+% of the commute for you and take away a lot of the fatigue of this trip, leaving you fresh for your family on arrival.

The Model X specifically is considered one of the safest, if not the safest vehicle on the road. During NHTSA testing, Tesla was unable to flip over the vehicle.
Will not trust this yet. You will probably die on a highway lol

Wait 5 more yrs
Another "internet expert" with no relevant personal experience making commentary on something they know nothing about.

Like the original poster, I'm a physician that has no problems putting my family in these cars. Most of my colleagues are also Tesla owners, as are the myriad of friends and family members that are engineers and pilots.

You could believe Momus....or the NHSTA.... www.nhsta.gov
Did you collect on the Sheikh, et al. v. Tesla, Inc. class action? Apparently Tesla did not release Enhanced Autopilot features with capabilities
that corresponded to the schedule it had previously indicated to its customers.
Link to class action website --- http://www.autopilotsettlement.com/

I think this class action applies to the same car that was involved in a fatal accident in California.
The driver of the 2017 Tesla Model X P100D, Wei Lun "Walter" Huang, crashed head-on into this barrier at 71 mph during the morning of March 23, 2018, on Highway 101 in Mountain View, California. The entire front end of his Model X was sheared to the A-pillars, and the vehicle caught fire.
Link to article --- https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2735 ... l-x-crash/

The OP's best course of action is likely to either purchase more comfortable vehicle, change the seating in their current vehicle, and do whatever else it takes to make the commute as enjoyable as possible.
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

Momus
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Momus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:38 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:09 pm
Momus wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:56 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:20 am
Get a Tesla with full self driving. It'll do 90+% of the commute for you and take away a lot of the fatigue of this trip, leaving you fresh for your family on arrival.

The Model X specifically is considered one of the safest, if not the safest vehicle on the road. During NHTSA testing, Tesla was unable to flip over the vehicle.
Will not trust this yet. You will probably die on a highway lol

Wait 5 more yrs
Another "internet expert" with no relevant personal experience making commentary on something they know nothing about.

Like the original poster, I'm a physician that has no problems putting my family in these cars. Most of my colleagues are also Tesla owners, as are the myriad of friends and family members that are engineers and pilots.

You could believe Momus....or the NHSTA.... www.nhsta.gov
Trust it at your own peril

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch ... -done/amp/

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2 ... -confusion

https://www.nhtsa.gov/technology-innova ... d-vehicles

Sorry to burst anyone bubble. I wouldn't trust my life in a self driving Tesla, let alone my family's lifes.

It's better be classified as class 4 or 5 before I touch any self driving car.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:35 pm

“Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.”

https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/

I’ve seen video of where the collision occurred in the Huang crash. Definitely a weird and unfortunate thing. It’s why it is always recommended to use the system as an adjunct to regular driving. The first high profile crash on autopilot was a guy watching a DVD player in his car while driving. Definitely not recommended behavior.

Accidents happen. There is now well over 1.2 billion (with a b) miles driven on autopilot. https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-au ... de-report/ That was over a year ago, the numbers now are likely closer to 2 billion. Quoting a couple of accidents and using that as evidence of avoidance is quite petty.

I know a group of kids that were electrocuted and killed walking in a cornfield. I wouldn’t say that walking into cornfields would be considered unsafe or not recommend it to others because of that event.
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

H-Town
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by H-Town » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:34 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
umm no. It's too expensive. Tax rebates is gone. There's no local incentives. Car repairs is a nightmare and your car could sit in a garage for months waiting for parts. Autopilot? you must be either very brave or crazy to give up control of the car to a computer. Just search Autopilot crash on youtube and you'll get the idea. When I'm in a car, I'm in the driver seat or else.

BionicBillWalsh
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:16 pm

H-Town wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:34 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
umm no. It's too expensive. Tax rebates is gone. There's no local incentives. Car repairs is a nightmare and your car could sit in a garage for months waiting for parts. Autopilot? you must be either very brave or crazy to give up control of the car to a computer. Just search Autopilot crash on youtube and you'll get the idea. When I'm in a car, I'm in the driver seat or else.
Nothing you’ve mentioned here is accurate.

-May be expensive for some, but marginally more than a BMW 3 series or a Ford F-150. Both are ubiquitous. The OP is a physician, not a Peace Corps volunteer.

-Tax rebates are not gone, reduced for sure. The price on Tesla has dropped recently as well.

-Local incentives vary according to your State and local utility. Saying there are no incentives for you may be accurate, but not for everyone else.

-Car repairs? What car repairs? There is nothing to fail. In the event of an accident, I don’t know of a single situation that is resolved quickly. Doesn’t matter who manufactured the vehicle.

-There are some who would never feel comfortable with autopilot...or cruise control....or making internet purchases. For those of us with less hysteria, it’s really no big deal.
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

chevca
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by chevca » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:26 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:16 pm
-Car repairs? What car repairs? There is nothing to fail.
NOTHING to fail, huh? I am certainly no expert on electric cars, but that seems like an awfully bold claim.

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Cardio
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by Cardio » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:48 pm

OP here. I appreciate the opinions of semi-autonomous driving cars, but can we keep the discussion on topic about actionable ways to minimize the time and energy challenges of a long commute? Thanks so much.

chevca
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by chevca » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:01 am

You have heard them all. That's why it's moved onto self driving cars and all. There's only so much you can do to make a long drive better. It sounds like a lot of your drive may be in rural areas? Not much traffic? Count your blessings if that's the case!

randomguy
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by randomguy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Accidents happen. There is now well over 1.2 billion (with a b) miles driven on autopilot. https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-au ... de-report/ That was over a year ago, the numbers now are likely closer to 2 billion. Quoting a couple of accidents and using that as evidence of avoidance is quite petty.

Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great. Now I don't know how much of that is autopilot related versus other factors and even be 2x worse than a mercedes E class still means you are in a very safe car.

I know a lot of people are worried that the autonomous tech we are getting now is going to be a combo of too good and not good enough. It is just good enough to give the driver a sense of security but not good enough to actually improve safety.

Working 60-70 hours/week and adding in 2 hours/day of commuting is pretty brutal. I am not sure about spending a whole week away from the family but getting a room for 1 or 2 days/ week might make sense. I know you mentioned limited flexibility of changing schedules but maybe setting it up so you work late one night, stay over night, work early the next and then get home early enough for some family time might work out.

02nz
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by 02nz » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:48 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am
Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great.
Could you please provide a source?

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MikeWillRetire
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by MikeWillRetire » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:27 am

A long commute can be tough, especially if you have household chores to do when you get home. Things like mowing the lawn, cooking dinner, cleaning the house, making repairs, etc. Outsource all of those chores if you can.

jaydub71
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by jaydub71 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:49 am

I had a similar commute where a large stretch was highway. Here is what I did to pass the time:

1) Podcasts
2) Audiobooks
3) Catch up on phone calls (with Bluetooth)

The phone calls made the time pass-by the fastest. I could make/return work phone calls that didn't require a computer/desk for the call. This freed up some time during the actual work day. I would also make/return personal phone calls. Calling friends, repairmen, etc. Having a list of who needed a call helped.

7eight9
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by 7eight9 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 am

02nz wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:48 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am
Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great.
Could you please provide a source?
Tesla’s Driver Fatality Rate is more than Triple that of Luxury Cars (and likely even higher)
Link --- https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/tes ... 3670ddde17
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

BionicBillWalsh
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Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:16 am

7eight9 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 am
02nz wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:48 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am
Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great.
Could you please provide a source?
Tesla’s Driver Fatality Rate is more than Triple that of Luxury Cars (and likely even higher)
Link --- https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/tes ... 3670ddde17
You provide a hedge fund piece as proof? I wonder there could be any ulterior motives...

If there is a higher number of accidents, its because Tesla model 3 is currently outselling all of its gas powered equivalents...combined. More vehicles on the road - higher number of accidents. https://electrek.co/2019/07/24/tesla-mo ... -combined/
Saltwater has an amazing ability to wash away many of life’s troubles

dbr
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by dbr » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:29 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:16 am
7eight9 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 am
02nz wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:48 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am
Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great.
Could you please provide a source?
Tesla’s Driver Fatality Rate is more than Triple that of Luxury Cars (and likely even higher)
Link --- https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/tes ... 3670ddde17
You provide a hedge fund piece as proof? I wonder there could be any ulterior motives...

If there is a higher number of accidents, its because Tesla model 3 is currently outselling all of its gas powered equivalents...combined. More vehicles on the road - higher number of accidents. https://electrek.co/2019/07/24/tesla-mo ... -combined/
That piece was a pretty good job of careful statistical analysis, which I say with professional experience in that field of research. I hope you did notice the data is standardized to a rate relative to number of vehicles, so your point about sales is wrong. The remaining issues would be differences in miles driven, differences in vehicle occupancy (passengers), differences in types of roads used, differences in time of day and days of the week, and differences in driver behavior not already captured by the previous factors. There may a reasonable argument that the data does not exist to study those factors, which are indeed difficult to examine model by model for almost any model vehicle. It is especially impressive that they have gone back to original data sources to attempt to elucidate and repair flaws in data collection. I can attest by personal experience that this is a necessary step before analyzing data with such small numbers of incidents for a model that is not a regular entry in most accident data bases, as the authors are careful to work through.

If there is to be a disclaimer about the validity of safety claims for Tesla it would be that we don't know if Tesla is safer than other luxury cars rather than that Tesla is safer. I am inclined to assign a lot or credibility to those results. The place I would have concern is that the result of being a more dangerous car is not explained. With a lifetime of experience in statistical data analysis I am never comfortable with a statistical difference that does not come with causal understanding. So the jury is out, in my opinion.

randomguy
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by randomguy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:37 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:16 am
7eight9 wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 am
02nz wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:48 am
randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 am
Yet the evidence is that Teslas have more accidents and higher death rates than the comparable cars from companies like Lexus, MB, Volvo and BMW. Tesla looks great compared to all cars. Against its peers it doesn't do so great.
Could you please provide a source?
Tesla’s Driver Fatality Rate is more than Triple that of Luxury Cars (and likely even higher)
Link --- https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/tes ... 3670ddde17
You provide a hedge fund piece as proof? I wonder there could be any ulterior motives...

If there is a higher number of accidents, its because Tesla model 3 is currently outselling all of its gas powered equivalents...combined. More vehicles on the road - higher number of accidents. https://electrek.co/2019/07/24/tesla-mo ... -combined/
Death rates are adjusted by number of cars so no more sales don't matter. I haven't seen any stats on 3 as it is too new.

You are right to question the hedge fund analysis. But Elon Musk has also said the same thing. He has repeatedly said that Tesla is 4x safer than the average car. The average large luxury car (s90, e/s class, 5 series, a6,...) is 6-10x safer than the average car. Musk loves doing apples to oranges comparisions that sound great in sound bites but when you actually think about them are less than impressive. A lot of stats also sound good when you have no context to tell if they are good or bad. Is subarus 96% of cars built in the last 10 years better or worse than Toyotas claim that 90% of Camrys sold in the last 20 years are still on the road? And when you hear that stat do you think that Camrys have a 90% chance to make it 20 years or do you realize that like half of those camrys are less than 10 years old?

michaeljc70
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:42 am

Thegame14 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:32 pm
find some podcasts that you enjoy a lot!!!
+1

Also try to make phone calls that you'd normally be making from home or work.

dbr
Posts: 31328
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by dbr » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:52 am

randomguy wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:37 am
A lot of stats also sound good when you have no context to tell if they are good or bad. Is subarus 96% of cars built in the last 10 years better or worse than Toyotas claim that 90% of Camrys sold in the last 20 years are still on the road? And when you hear that stat do you think that Camrys have a 90% chance to make it 20 years or do you realize that like half of those camrys are less than 10 years old?
Volvo pulled that stunt decades ago when their sales were growing rapidly resulting in lots of new Volvos on the road but saying nothing about old ones.

H-Town
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by H-Town » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:53 am

Cardio wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:13 pm
dbr wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:03 am
Since the move is a done deal due to needs of both elderly family members and younger family members (schools and neighborhood) we need to hear from the OP regarding whether suggestions to work at home and work a four day week can be arranged. The long term plan if not possible in the short run might be to find an acceptable job closer to home. It is not clear to us what the employment situation is. When I was working changing employers to work in a different neighborhood would have been totally unrealistic, but my commute was twenty minutes and not in traffic.

Otherwise, I'm sorry.

OP here. Thanks for all the responses! I will definitely look into podcasts, audiobooks, and a more comfortable and/or semi-autonomous car.

Re living somewhere between the current house and the relatives, or moving the relatives closer to us: we looked into that. No good options, without going into every detail.

Re my job, I'm a physician, a partner in a private practice in a rural but HCOL area. In my current position, I earn a little below the national average for my field. Closer to my relatives, my field is extremely saturated, and the typical job is a employee/nonpartner track job, with pay about the 20th percentile, a higher workload than my current position, and much less autonomy. No part time options. Can't work from home or change my work hours.

Because I currently work about 60-70 hours/week, the extra commute is a big deal, and I do worry about fatigue and crashing my car (unlikely) or being cranky to the family (more likely). So all the good suggestions are appreciated. Hope this clarifies things.
I have 45 min - 1 hr one way commute (or more in bad traffic). One thing you might not think about is that this time commuting can be a blessing in disguise. It'll allow me to take my mind off work and be 100% me when I'm home. I also have time to mediate, think, and plan ahead. I work in the field that demands 60-70 hours half of the year, and the commute helps me create a barrier between work and home.

For the group of people suggesting shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to buy CT6, Tesla, I'm 100% against that idea. Until I achieve the financial independence goal for my family and make sure they are well taken care of financially, I'm willing to sacrifice personal enjoyment, comfort, and luxurious for only just myself. I understand others might not feel that way and I'm sure you can find a middle ground.

H-Town
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Re: Long commute: how to manage?

Post by H-Town » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:03 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:16 pm
H-Town wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:34 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:45 pm
When you look at fuel cost, safety, and the convenience of charging your vehicle in your garage at night, owning anything but an electric vehicle makes no sense.

The tax rebates, local incentives, less car maintenance, environmental advantages and semi-autonomous driving are the cherry on top.
umm no. It's too expensive. Tax rebates is gone. There's no local incentives. Car repairs is a nightmare and your car could sit in a garage for months waiting for parts. Autopilot? you must be either very brave or crazy to give up control of the car to a computer. Just search Autopilot crash on youtube and you'll get the idea. When I'm in a car, I'm in the driver seat or else.
Nothing you’ve mentioned here is accurate.

-May be expensive for some, but marginally more than a BMW 3 series or a Ford F-150. Both are ubiquitous. The OP is a physician, not a Peace Corps volunteer.

-Tax rebates are not gone, reduced for sure. The price on Tesla has dropped recently as well.

-Local incentives vary according to your State and local utility. Saying there are no incentives for you may be accurate, but not for everyone else.

-Car repairs? What car repairs? There is nothing to fail. In the event of an accident, I don’t know of a single situation that is resolved quickly. Doesn’t matter who manufactured the vehicle.

-There are some who would never feel comfortable with autopilot...or cruise control....or making internet purchases. For those of us with less hysteria, it’s really no big deal.
- Oh sure, just because you're a physician, you'll buy a Tesla. What a Peace Corps volunteer needs to do to close that social status gap? We live in a consumer country. There is less of correlation between making money and spending money than you think. People spending more money than they have is not a novel concept.

- Tax rebate is essentially gone. It can't even cover a third of the sales tax. Yeah, hang your hat on that.

- Car repairs: If you're a Tesla owner and have not researched this issue, I hope I bring you some awareness to this issue.

- Autopilot: this is personal preference so to each his own. If you rely on autopilot frequently and happy with it, be sure to know what to do when computer crashes.

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