Be aware of Verizon!

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Topic Author
BogleMelon
Posts: 2498
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BogleMelon »

Just to warn everyone from believing a promise made by a customer service representative over documentation that says otherwise. I have learned my lesson the hard way, and I don't want others to fall in the same trap. Especially if it is Verizon
- I had Verizon Fios internet service for like 5 years. My 2 years contract was about to expire in Jan 2020, and I saw very good offers provided by Comcast. I contacted Verizon via chat to see if they can come close to Comcast especially I always liked Verizon CR over Comcast.
- The chat agent offered me the higher speed at the same price till the end of my current contract, so I don't move to Comcast and terminate early my contract (termination fees were low so I could still come out ahead). I agreed to his offer. He sent an email with a link to the order so that I hit the agree button.
- I then noticed that the wording referring to another 2 years contract (with a fresh high termination fee) which was not what I was expecting. The chat agent confirmed that it is just wording, but he guarantees that the date would be the same Jan 2020. He said he wouldn't give false information and risk his job. He gave me a chat session ID as proof. I believed him, and signed! Mistake #1
- A couple of days later I noticed that I am in a new contract that ends 07/2021! You can guess. VZ Agents: Sorry but signed already and agreed.
- A lot of calls and frustrations, they then agreed to waive the termination fees of that new contract. 4 agents confirmed also that the monthly fee for July would be prorated. I believed- Mistake #2. I terminated the contract accordingly.
- After termination, no prorating for July. They wanted the full monthly amount. I had only the internet. They don't prorate internet service. They prorate double or triple packages. It is in the terms (Of course! it is always the Terms). After a lot of more calls, they agreed to give some credit instead of the promised prorating (as a courtesy sir! you didn't deserve it! It is in the terms!)

Would they honor the "waiving the early termination fees" as promised? I have to wait for the final bill next month to find out.

Lesson learned:
==============
1- As I said, if the agent said something and the paperwork saying another, NEVER believe the salesman. Go by the paperwork. I am glad this happened in something small such as Internet service, rather a house contract!
2- IMO, Verizon is going downhill. They stopped to honor what the representatives advise. There is a lawsuit against them for "Failure to Deliver Promised Incentive Items" https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/prof ... ent-Action
3- Verizon is going downhill. Every agent now can say something different. And you probably won't know who is right till it is late already. And they all say now "I won't risk my job over this". And they turn out to be wrong.
4- No need to sign a contract when a month to month is available. Once you sign a contract, the service provider can treat you with a bad attitude. Let alone that he would lose any interest in keeping you as a customer. Guess what, you have already signed to become a customer for a long period already.
5- Don't close a claim made at BBB too early. Wait until the very end. If you closed the claim and complained again to BBB, they won't approve the new claim or reopen the other one.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
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Topic Author
BogleMelon
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BogleMelon »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
I even didn't know that too.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
core4portfolio
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by core4portfolio »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
In a dental scenario, its not happened like that. My dental hospital says they need some information and BBB send me an email stating asking that to be send to provider. then another email asking if response is resolved. I said No. so they keep things open.
After that issue is not resolved however BBB doesnt closed the case. So BBB does what it can
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augustwest73
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by augustwest73 »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
+1.
BeneIRA
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BeneIRA »

This is extremely common across all businesses. The quality of CSRs is generally not very high across the board. Retention rates in that role are abysmal across most companies. If the contract says one thing and they say another, then the contract supersedes. Most insurance carriers even put that in the IVR when you call. Something to the effect of "if we counsel you one way, the plan document supersedes."
gtd98765
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by gtd98765 »

Agree entirely with the sentiment. Over decades of moving in and out of Verizon's service area, I found that every time I would sign up for new Verizon service, there would be a "small error" that would add $5 - $10 / month to the bill. They would always correct the problem when I called to complain. But after the fourth time this happened, I decided that fraud is just part of Verizon's business model. I'm sure the vast majority of their customers don't notice problems like this, or don't want to waste the time on the phone, so they probably come out way ahead.
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Quirkz
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Quirkz »

I've run into things like this with various companies. To make this actionable, the best things you can do are:

1) always get it in writing, and

2) keep a copy until the applicable time window is completely closed, and then some

#2 burned me a couple of times when I signed up for a "lifetime" promotion that they conveniently forgot about 12 months later.
Jags4186
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Jags4186 »

Verizon wireline is the worst. They sent me to collections over someone with the same name — not same address. After acknowledging the issue they still refused to do anything about it and demanded me pay the $175 bill plus like $200 in late fees. I had to write to the attorney general to get out of it.
Godot
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Godot »

BogleMelon wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:51 pm Just to warn everyone from believing a promise made by a customer service representative over documentation that says otherwise. I have learned my lesson the hard way, and I don't want others to fall in the same trap. Especially if it is Verizon
- I had Verizon Fios internet service for like 5 years. My 2 years contract was about to expire in Jan 2020, and I saw very good offers provided by Comcast. I contacted Verizon via chat to see if they can come close to Comcast especially I always liked Verizon CR over Comcast.
- The chat agent offered me the higher speed at the same price till the end of my current contract, so I don't move to Comcast and terminate early my contract (termination fees were low so I could still come out ahead). I agreed to his offer. He sent an email with a link to the order so that I hit the agree button.
- I then noticed that the wording referring to another 2 years contract (with a fresh high termination fee) which was not what I was expecting. The chat agent confirmed that it is just wording, but he guarantees that the date would be the same Jan 2020. He said he wouldn't give false information and risk his job. He gave me a chat session ID as proof. I believed him, and signed! Mistake #1
- A couple of days later I noticed that I am in a new contract that ends 07/2021! You can guess. VZ Agents: Sorry but signed already and agreed.
- A lot of calls and frustrations, they then agreed to waive the termination fees of that new contract. 4 agents confirmed also that the monthly fee for July would be prorated. I believed- Mistake #2. I terminated the contract accordingly.
- After termination, no prorating for July. They wanted the full monthly amount. I had only the internet. They don't prorate internet service. They prorate double or triple packages. It is in the terms (Of course! it is always the Terms). After a lot of more calls, they agreed to give some credit instead of the promised prorating (as a courtesy sir! you didn't deserve it! It is in the terms!)

Would they honor the "waiving the early termination fees" as promised? I have to wait for the final bill next month to find out.

Lesson learned:
==============
1- As I said, if the agent said something and the paperwork saying another, NEVER believe the salesman. Go by the paperwork. I am glad this happened in something small such as Internet service, rather a house contract!
2- IMO, Verizon is going downhill. They stopped to honor what the representatives advise. There is a lawsuit against them for "Failure to Deliver Promised Incentive Items" https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/prof ... ent-Action
3- Verizon is going downhill. Every agent now can say something different. And you probably won't know who is right till it is late already. And they all say now "I won't risk my job over this". And they turn out to be wrong.
4- No need to sign a contract when a month to month is available. Once you sign a contract, the service provider can treat you with a bad attitude. Let alone that he would lose any interest in keeping you as a customer. Guess what, you have already signed to become a customer for a long period already.
5- Don't close a claim made at BBB too early. Wait until the very end. If you closed the claim and complained again to BBB, they won't approve the new claim or reopen the other one.
Pretty bad, but Comcast/Xfinity's service/business model much worse.
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
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El Greco
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by El Greco »

This is why I still have quite a bit of stock in Verizon. The really, really know how to make money. :twisted:
Rdytoretire
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Rdytoretire »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
+1
Wakefield1
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Wakefield1 »

Verizon telephone and Internet service is very expensive.
I hope Verizon doesn't become the electric power supply company! :greedy Would probably double the price over a couple years!
02nz
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by 02nz »

I see some of this interaction was by chat. Often there's an option to send yourself a transcript of the chat (even if not you can copy and paste from the browser). I always do this so that I have a written record. No, it's not a contract, but it's a heck of a lot better than "well some rep told me over the phone ..."
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beyou
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by beyou »

To say they went downhill implies they were ever uphill.
My experience with their cell service is bad.
Deals for FIOS require auto debit of my checking acct, something I would not allow for a firm with a well known pattern of adding more fees than they promised. My cable co got in the habit now too, suddenly forget deals they offered and add fees/raise prices regularly. But they do not require my checking acct # so I stick with them.
Topic Author
BogleMelon
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BogleMelon »

Godot wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm
BogleMelon wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:51 pm Just to warn everyone from believing a promise made by a customer service representative over documentation that says otherwise. I have learned my lesson the hard way, and I don't want others to fall in the same trap. Especially if it is Verizon
- I had Verizon Fios internet service for like 5 years. My 2 years contract was about to expire in Jan 2020, and I saw very good offers provided by Comcast. I contacted Verizon via chat to see if they can come close to Comcast especially I always liked Verizon CR over Comcast.
- The chat agent offered me the higher speed at the same price till the end of my current contract, so I don't move to Comcast and terminate early my contract (termination fees were low so I could still come out ahead). I agreed to his offer. He sent an email with a link to the order so that I hit the agree button.
- I then noticed that the wording referring to another 2 years contract (with a fresh high termination fee) which was not what I was expecting. The chat agent confirmed that it is just wording, but he guarantees that the date would be the same Jan 2020. He said he wouldn't give false information and risk his job. He gave me a chat session ID as proof. I believed him, and signed! Mistake #1
- A couple of days later I noticed that I am in a new contract that ends 07/2021! You can guess. VZ Agents: Sorry but signed already and agreed.
- A lot of calls and frustrations, they then agreed to waive the termination fees of that new contract. 4 agents confirmed also that the monthly fee for July would be prorated. I believed- Mistake #2. I terminated the contract accordingly.
- After termination, no prorating for July. They wanted the full monthly amount. I had only the internet. They don't prorate internet service. They prorate double or triple packages. It is in the terms (Of course! it is always the Terms). After a lot of more calls, they agreed to give some credit instead of the promised prorating (as a courtesy sir! you didn't deserve it! It is in the terms!)

Would they honor the "waiving the early termination fees" as promised? I have to wait for the final bill next month to find out.

Lesson learned:
==============
1- As I said, if the agent said something and the paperwork saying another, NEVER believe the salesman. Go by the paperwork. I am glad this happened in something small such as Internet service, rather a house contract!
2- IMO, Verizon is going downhill. They stopped to honor what the representatives advise. There is a lawsuit against them for "Failure to Deliver Promised Incentive Items" https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/prof ... ent-Action
3- Verizon is going downhill. Every agent now can say something different. And you probably won't know who is right till it is late already. And they all say now "I won't risk my job over this". And they turn out to be wrong.
4- No need to sign a contract when a month to month is available. Once you sign a contract, the service provider can treat you with a bad attitude. Let alone that he would lose any interest in keeping you as a customer. Guess what, you have already signed to become a customer for a long period already.
5- Don't close a claim made at BBB too early. Wait until the very end. If you closed the claim and complained again to BBB, they won't approve the new claim or reopen the other one.
Pretty bad, but Comcast/Xfinity's service/business model much worse.
But at least there won't be a contract
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
Topic Author
BogleMelon
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BogleMelon »

02nz wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:51 pm I see some of this interaction was by chat. Often there's an option to send yourself a transcript of the chat (even if not you can copy and paste from the browser). I always do this so that I have a written record. No, it's not a contract, but it's a heck of a lot better than "well some rep told me over the phone ..."
There wasn't such option to email myself the chat. I wasn't skeptical at all specially he gave a chat ID.
The thing is even with the chat log saved, there is no way to send it to the phone people (who have the most powers to override things)
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

1) You should complain to the Public Utility Commission instead. Verizon is a regulated Telecom company. They are subject to a penalty for any violation.

2) Cable companies are not a Telecom company. They are not regulated like the Telecom companies such as Verizon.

3) I have no idea what your problem is? You have a new 2 years contract with a good deal. You could keep that 2 years contract and renew and/or move to someone else 2 years later. The deal could only get better in 7/2021. So, what is the problem? Terminating earlier is great!

4) I go through the same song and dance every 2 years. I do not negotiate earlier except one month ahead of ending date. I pay the same price every 2 years with higher Internet performance.

KlangFool
KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by KlangFool »

Wakefield1 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:35 pm
Verizon telephone and Internet service is very expensive.
I hope Verizon doesn't become the electric power supply company! :greedy Would probably double the price over a couple years!
Wakefield1,

That is true in places where they have no competition. In places, where they have to compete, you can negotiate the price down to the reasonable level or you can change your provider.

KlangFool
TBillT
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by TBillT »

I don't use them because they treated us poorly related to laying FIOS cable in our yard.
Our crazy town wanted to allow multiple cable cos. so I do have a choice.
Wish we could get 3 lines, maybe not if COMCAST is worst.
Last edited by TBillT on Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Topic Author
BogleMelon
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by BogleMelon »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:21 pm OP,

1) You should complain to the Public Utility Commission instead. Verizon is a regulated Telecom company. They are subject to a penalty for any violation.

2) Cable companies are not a Telecom company. They are not regulated like the Telecom companies such as Verizon.

3) I have no idea what your problem is? You have a new 2 years contract with a good deal. You could keep that 2 years contract and renew and/or move to someone else 2 years later. The deal could only get better in 7/2021. So, what is the problem? Terminating earlier is great!

4) I go through the same song and dance every 2 years. I do not negotiate earlier except one month ahead of ending date. I pay the same price every 2 years with higher Internet performance.

KlangFool
I complained to FCC. Not sure if that was the right place.
My problem is I don't like people lying to make and fool me. It is the principal, not the money.
My deal was bad anyways. He renewed the contract at the same price with upgraded speed only till feb 2020. After that the price would be regular for the rest of the 24 months.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather
KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by KlangFool »

BogleMelon wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:35 pm
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:21 pm OP,

1) You should complain to the Public Utility Commission instead. Verizon is a regulated Telecom company. They are subject to a penalty for any violation.

2) Cable companies are not a Telecom company. They are not regulated like the Telecom companies such as Verizon.

3) I have no idea what your problem is? You have a new 2 years contract with a good deal. You could keep that 2 years contract and renew and/or move to someone else 2 years later. The deal could only get better in 7/2021. So, what is the problem? Terminating earlier is great!

4) I go through the same song and dance every 2 years. I do not negotiate earlier except one month ahead of ending date. I pay the same price every 2 years with higher Internet performance.

KlangFool
I complained to FCC. Not sure if that was the right place.
My problem is I don't like people lying to make and fool me. It is the principal, not the money.
My deal was bad anyways. He renewed the contract at the same price with upgraded speed only till feb 2020. After that the price would be regular for the rest of the 24 months.
BogleMelon,

<<My problem is I don't like people lying to make and fool me.>>

They may not be lying. In most cases, they are too incompetent to lie. It is probably just a mistake on their part.

KlangFool
Nowizard
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Nowizard »

You are correct about the BBB. I recently filed a complaint regarding a moving company. After two or three back-and-forths, I said my goal was to protect others since the damage had already been done to my family and could not be changed, indicating there was no possible satisfactory resolution but nothing left to say. The site does still give the content of the complaint but states it was resolved to the satisfaction of the complainant.

Tim
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bottlecap
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by bottlecap »

Written words invariably control, especially when you’re dealing with a CSR.

I learned this the first time I signed a lease. My father was a lawyer and told me not to listen to the rep - read the contract!

I have done so ever since.

JT
TheDDC
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by TheDDC »

BogleMelon wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:51 pm Just to warn everyone from believing a promise made by a customer service representative over documentation that says otherwise. I have learned my lesson the hard way, and I don't want others to fall in the same trap. Especially if it is Verizon
- I had Verizon Fios internet service for like 5 years. My 2 years contract was about to expire in Jan 2020, and I saw very good offers provided by Comcast. I contacted Verizon via chat to see if they can come close to Comcast especially I always liked Verizon CR over Comcast.
- The chat agent offered me the higher speed at the same price till the end of my current contract, so I don't move to Comcast and terminate early my contract (termination fees were low so I could still come out ahead). I agreed to his offer. He sent an email with a link to the order so that I hit the agree button.
- I then noticed that the wording referring to another 2 years contract (with a fresh high termination fee) which was not what I was expecting. The chat agent confirmed that it is just wording, but he guarantees that the date would be the same Jan 2020. He said he wouldn't give false information and risk his job. He gave me a chat session ID as proof. I believed him, and signed! Mistake #1
- A couple of days later I noticed that I am in a new contract that ends 07/2021! You can guess. VZ Agents: Sorry but signed already and agreed.
- A lot of calls and frustrations, they then agreed to waive the termination fees of that new contract. 4 agents confirmed also that the monthly fee for July would be prorated. I believed- Mistake #2. I terminated the contract accordingly.
- After termination, no prorating for July. They wanted the full monthly amount. I had only the internet. They don't prorate internet service. They prorate double or triple packages. It is in the terms (Of course! it is always the Terms). After a lot of more calls, they agreed to give some credit instead of the promised prorating (as a courtesy sir! you didn't deserve it! It is in the terms!)

Would they honor the "waiving the early termination fees" as promised? I have to wait for the final bill next month to find out.

Lesson learned:
==============
1- As I said, if the agent said something and the paperwork saying another, NEVER believe the salesman. Go by the paperwork. I am glad this happened in something small such as Internet service, rather a house contract!
2- IMO, Verizon is going downhill. They stopped to honor what the representatives advise. There is a lawsuit against them for "Failure to Deliver Promised Incentive Items" https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/prof ... ent-Action
3- Verizon is going downhill. Every agent now can say something different. And you probably won't know who is right till it is late already. And they all say now "I won't risk my job over this". And they turn out to be wrong.
4- No need to sign a contract when a month to month is available. Once you sign a contract, the service provider can treat you with a bad attitude. Let alone that he would lose any interest in keeping you as a customer. Guess what, you have already signed to become a customer for a long period already.
5- Don't close a claim made at BBB too early. Wait until the very end. If you closed the claim and complained again to BBB, they won't approve the new claim or reopen the other one.
Grass... greener... other side.

My perspective as an IT geek (network engineer by trade): Your Verizon FiOS service is simply FAR superior as it is delivered over fiber. It's just a superior product, but unfortunately you have to go through the same cock and bull to get decent customer service as you would with Comcast. Most of us have to rely on coax (copper) for internet. If you go to Comcast be prepared for even MORE shenanigans except delivered over an inferior medium.

Telecom/cable companies, although regulations may differ, will treat you exactly the same as a customer. Verizon and Comcast reps are script readers, and the real people who get the work done will rarely (if ever) talk to you via phone unless you are escalated to management. Even then you will (maybe) get a call back from someone at a local office, but you aren't guaranteed someone who is empowered to service you properly.

The best thing you can do is try to get screwed over the LEAST by using a few mitigation strategies. Two of my favs with Comcast:

- Calling continuously every year like clockwork to threaten to leave. The last time I didn't even threaten. I played the courteous but confused/drunken pirate routine. That got my bill back to what I was paying and then some before they attempted to jack it up annually. You never know what you'll get.

- Taking detailed notes on every outage, when it occurred, how long, who you spoke with, and following up IMMEDIATELY for a courtesy discount. It's not really something you should have any shame in doing as you are paying for the product and it should work. SH*T happens is understandable as a tech person, but not as a paying customer. I am a tech guy who understands how their services generally work, how stuff can go wrong (though DOCSIS is its own beast) and I still refuse to pay for service I don't get.

Contracts are fine if they are used to deliver a product you enjoy at a fair price. Just because cable companies don't offer them doesn't mean you have a chance at better service for fear of cancelling.

I like the BBB idea, but I have never used it with Comcast amazingly enough. I should have been close to doing it several times, the latest time in which they randomly deprovisioned a telephone line - a REGULATED telephone utility being delivered to my modem no less!

In my mind the big strike against Verizon FiOS in my book is the inability to own your own modem, but I get why as, again, FiOS is a fiber product that requires enterprise gear to handle the GPON signalling technology as opposed to carrier ethernet. The only consumer-grade product that handles GPON is manufactured by ubnt, and you certainly won't find ubnt prosumer gear being used by any big telecom out there.

Stick with Verizon, lumps and all. My father in law has managed to do the once a year dance with Verizon to get FiOS cheaper than I could imagine, most every channel available, and they send him VISA gift cards no less. No way I could get Comcast to do that.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
ARoseByAnyOtherName
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by ARoseByAnyOtherName »

TheDDC wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:32 pm In my mind the big strike against Verizon FiOS in my book is the inability to own your own modem, but I get why as, again, FiOS is a fiber product that requires enterprise gear to handle the GPON signalling technology as opposed to carrier ethernet.

-TheDDC
We have FIOS and own our own modem. It works fine, no problems.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by LilyFleur »

gtd98765 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:42 pm Agree entirely with the sentiment. Over decades of moving in and out of Verizon's service area, I found that every time I would sign up for new Verizon service, there would be a "small error" that would add $5 - $10 / month to the bill. They would always correct the problem when I called to complain. But after the fourth time this happened, I decided that fraud is just part of Verizon's business model. I'm sure the vast majority of their customers don't notice problems like this, or don't want to waste the time on the phone, so they probably come out way ahead.
+1
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

El Greco wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:25 pm This is why I still have quite a bit of stock in Verizon. The really, really know how to make money. :twisted:
Yeah, go look at their track record over the last 10 years, their total returns lag the market, were it not for the dividends the stock price would be much lower. Deregulation of the phone industry was a mistake. Verizon is the old GTE, NYNEX, Bell Atlantic and Airtouch Communications.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by KlangFool »

TheDDC wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:32 pm
In my mind the big strike against Verizon FiOS in my book is the inability to own your own modem, but I get why as, again, FiOS is a fiber product that requires enterprise gear to handle the GPON signalling technology as opposed to carrier ethernet. The only consumer-grade product that handles GPON is manufactured by ubnt, and you certainly won't find ubnt prosumer gear being used by any big telecom out there.

-TheDDC
TheDDC,

That statement is not true. Verizon FiOS is running GPON. But, the modem inside your home is MoCA modem. You could ask Verizon FiOS to switch your home Internet connection to Ethernet instead of Coax. Then, you could use your own Ethernet router. The problem with that is your home connection will be Ethernet and it is harder to move as compared to coax.

I had looked into that and I found that it is not worth my effort. I prefer to lease the modem/router from Verizon Fios and complain to them every 2 years and get a newer upgraded WiFi router.

KlangFool
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SmileyFace
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by SmileyFace »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm Nodding yes to everything but BBB. Verizon will call BBB and say "it's all resolved" and they'll mark it that way and their claim number will revert to zero. BBB is nothing but a sham.
I made a bad report against a driveway/asphalt company once and my complaint wasn't marked resolved until a signed statement from me was submitted. Perhaps it is state driven what the rules are? I don't know.
It really helped me because the company really wanted my review removed and marked resolved so they bent over backwards to resolve the problem (until I made the complaint they weren't even calling me back - it sure got their attention fast).
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SmileyFace
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by SmileyFace »

Thanks for the story - yes - certainly - always check the paperwork. But even then - they seem to feel they can make changes (such as removing a premium channel) without it affecting the contract. Verizon removed a channel from our package without adjusting the price. I called them and told them that I am no longer locked into their 2-year contract since they changed the terms - their response was that the package hadn't changed but they can change the line-up anytime. So if they remove all the channels and keep the package name the same I am still locked in? Makes no sense I told them. In any case - I dropped the issue because the channel wasn't that important to me.

I switched from a Comcast triple-play package to one from Verizon FIOS not too long ago (Comcast finally called my bluff after a decade of me threatening to cancel) - likely will switch up after the 2 years special pricing is up unless Verizon extends. (I know - everyone else these days has moved to streaming - there are certain networks/etc. we like that still aren't available elsewhere - perhaps when our current deal ends we will re-evaluate again).
jharkin
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by jharkin »

Godot wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm Pretty bad, but Comcast/Xfinity's service/business model much worse.
Yep, and their infrastructure is far behind Verizon to boot.

Once upon a time I had Comcast (before it rebranded Xfinity) and even used RCN for a while as well (shudder). Ive been a FiOS customer for at least 12 years now and I put up with the miserable CS to enjoy the benefit of their very high quality fiber internet and TV. In an unusual for them turn of events I just moved and was able to get a new customer deal and convert to gigabit service for less $ than I was paying for 50/50.
jharkin
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by jharkin »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:18 am
TheDDC wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:32 pm
In my mind the big strike against Verizon FiOS in my book is the inability to own your own modem, but I get why as, again, FiOS is a fiber product that requires enterprise gear to handle the GPON signalling technology as opposed to carrier ethernet. The only consumer-grade product that handles GPON is manufactured by ubnt, and you certainly won't find ubnt prosumer gear being used by any big telecom out there.

-TheDDC
TheDDC,

That statement is not true. Verizon FiOS is running GPON. But, the modem inside your home is MoCA modem. You could ask Verizon FiOS to switch your home Internet connection to Ethernet instead of Coax. Then, you could use your own Ethernet router. The problem with that is your home connection will be Ethernet and it is harder to move as compared to coax.

I had looked into that and I found that it is not worth my effort. I prefer to lease the modem/router from Verizon Fios and complain to them every 2 years and get a newer upgraded WiFi router.

KlangFool
Fool-

Verizon hasnt been provisioning new installs over coax for years now. All the service tiers over 100/100 require the ONT to router connection to be Ethernet so they do this by default now. They will also replace an existing older BPON ONT with GPON ONT for free if you upgrade to a 75/75 or higher tier, IIRC And even in the old days when all the gear was BPON and 100 was the highest tier they would provision the router for Ethernet if you asked the install tech to do it - the Actiontec routers they used to supply could accept the WAN side over either coax or eithernet.

The current gen Verizon router still has coax and it still needs to be connected if you have TV service, but that is only to supply the guide and on-demand streaming I believe. Its decoding all that from the ethernet and providing that to the STBs. Regular television channels are still transmitting direct from the ONT over coax.

With this setup, if you wanted to you can use your own router and put it upstream of hte Verizon router (its still needed to provide the guide and on demand) - DSL Reports has lots of articles on how to do this - http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16077 I used to do it years ago when they where using Actiontec routers to make things like my office VPN work better but dont bother anymore as the new "quantum gateway" seems to work well enough now.
KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by KlangFool »

jharkin wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:22 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:18 am
TheDDC wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:32 pm
In my mind the big strike against Verizon FiOS in my book is the inability to own your own modem, but I get why as, again, FiOS is a fiber product that requires enterprise gear to handle the GPON signalling technology as opposed to carrier ethernet. The only consumer-grade product that handles GPON is manufactured by ubnt, and you certainly won't find ubnt prosumer gear being used by any big telecom out there.

-TheDDC
TheDDC,

That statement is not true. Verizon FiOS is running GPON. But, the modem inside your home is MoCA modem. You could ask Verizon FiOS to switch your home Internet connection to Ethernet instead of Coax. Then, you could use your own Ethernet router. The problem with that is your home connection will be Ethernet and it is harder to move as compared to coax.

I had looked into that and I found that it is not worth my effort. I prefer to lease the modem/router from Verizon Fios and complain to them every 2 years and get a newer upgraded WiFi router.

KlangFool
Fool-

Verizon hasnt been provisioning new installs over coax for years now. All the service tiers over 100/100 require the ONT to router connection to be Ethernet so they do this by default now. They will also replace an existing older BPON ONT with GPON ONT for free if you upgrade to a 75/75 or higher tier, IIRC And even in the old days when all the gear was BPON and 100 was the highest tier they would provision the router for Ethernet if you asked the install tech to do it - the Actiontec routers they used to supply could accept the WAN side over either coax or eithernet.

The current gen Verizon router still has coax and it still needs to be connected if you have TV service, but that is only to supply the guide and on-demand streaming I believe. Its decoding all that from the ethernet and providing that to the STBs. Regular television channels are still transmitting direct from the ONT over coax.

With this setup, if you wanted to you can use your own router and put it upstream of hte Verizon router (its still needed to provide the guide and on demand) - DSL Reports has lots of articles on how to do this - http://www.dslreports.com/faq/16077 I used to do it years ago when they where using Actiontec routers to make things like my office VPN work better but dont bother anymore as the new "quantum gateway" seems to work well enough now.
Thank you for the detailed explanation.

KlangFool
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Re: Be aware of Verizon!

Post by carolinaman »

I switched to Verizon for smart phone service about 5 years ago after using other carriers and a low cost provider who used one of the major carriers networks. None of these was satisfactory for service. The biggest issue I had with these carriers was coverage outside of metro areas. Every time I got 20 miles outside my metro area, coverage was weak and spotty. Verizon has much better coverage where ever I go. I can get lower cost from other providers, but that has always come with lower service. I am a satisfied Verizon customer.

I think anytime you sign up for a multi year contract, you need to read the fine print to make sure it agrees with what the sales person says. Like so many other things in business transactions, it is caveat emptor!
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