Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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monkey_business
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by monkey_business » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:55 am
Being conservative is good to an extent. However, I feel a good number of folks here forget that life is finite. Waiting until the last decade or two of your life to enjoy the fruits of your labor carries a lot of risk as well. What is the risk of you dying prematurely? What is the risk of your health declining such that your quality of life suffers significantly? What about your loved ones, friends, and significant others? Will they be around and in good health too?
I get your point, and I generally agree, but I don't worry about the risk of dying permaturely because if I'm dead I don't think I will regret my decisions.
It's not necessarily a matter of regret, but rather the journey to that point. Suppose you could have saved more and retired at 40, but decided you'd rather be much more safe and retire at 60. You get struck by lightning at age 50 and die instantly. While there will be no regret, you would have experienced a different life leading up to that point. All a matter of choices.

DaftInvestor
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DaftInvestor » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:24 pm

bhsince87 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:58 pm
DaftInvestor wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:41 pm


Similar to MMM this guy is also false prophet - talks about FI and RE but is really neither.
I discovered MMM very early on, after he had blogged maybe 2-3 months. And to be fair to him, he had no idea how successful his blogging "career" would become.

He quit his tech job with a plan to do part time construction/renovation gigs, mostly for himself and his friends. The money from blogging/etc. came later.
Yeah - but even in those early years he wasn't Retired (he was doing Construction work). I know - he has some blog that name-calls folks that like to point this out. But still....a blog post with name-calling doesn't make it not true.
He also wasn't financially independent those first few years - he showed his finances - there is no way he could pay for his kids medical needs without assistance. No responsible parent would raise kids with little savings/spending and no job. If he didn't have kids I maybe wouldn't have been turned off by him as much as I was (I also wasn't surprised when I learned he got divorced).
Last edited by DaftInvestor on Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mptfan
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by mptfan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 pm
It's not necessarily a matter of regret, but rather the journey to that point. Suppose you could have saved more and retired at 40, but decided you'd rather be much more safe and retire at 60. You get struck by lightning at age 50 and die instantly. While there will be no regret, you would have experienced a different life leading up to that point. All a matter of choices.
Yes, you would have experienced a different life leading up to that point, but so what? You're dead.

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monkey_business
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by monkey_business » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:31 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 pm
It's not necessarily a matter of regret, but rather the journey to that point. Suppose you could have saved more and retired at 40, but decided you'd rather be much more safe and retire at 60. You get struck by lightning at age 50 and die instantly. While there will be no regret, you would have experienced a different life leading up to that point. All a matter of choices.
Yes, you would have experienced a different life leading up to that point, but so what? You're dead.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. What's the point of any of your life choices?

mptfan
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by mptfan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:31 pm
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. What's the point of any of your life choices?
My point is we all make life choices in how we live our lives, and if we are happy in our life choices today then those are the right choices for us today regardless of whether we die at 52 or 92. So if someone chooses to forego certain consumption until retirement and that choice makes them happy during their life before retirement, that is the right choice for them even if they die before retirement.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by megabad » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:04 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:00 am
Is there a DVD out there? I get a better ROI by buying a DVD.
tenkuky wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:47 am
And I better the ROI by waiting for the public library to get a copy (or inter-library loan) and borrow it for free. :mrgreen:
ty. I got a kick out of this amidst the "wouldn't want to be as frugal as the FIRE folks" comments.

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monkey_business
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by monkey_business » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:05 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:37 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:31 pm
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. What's the point of any of your life choices?
My point is we all make life choices in how we live our lives, and if we are happy in our life choices today then those are the right choices for us today regardless of whether we die at 52 or 92. So if someone chooses to forego certain consumption until retirement and that choice makes them happy during their life before retirement, that is the right choice for them even if they die before retirement.
That's stating the obvious. People that are perfectly happy working do not FIRE.

The people that want FIRE prefer not to work. In fact, most people in general would prefer not to have to go to work. A small fraction of these people are financially able to FIRE. The ones that choose to do so, subject themselves to higher financial risk. The ones that do not, subject themselves to higher life risk. The idea that FIRE = more risky is not necessarily true when you consider the life risk with traditional retirement time frames.

Turbo29
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Turbo29 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:07 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:55 am
Being conservative is good to an extent. However, I feel a good number of folks here forget that life is finite. Waiting until the last decade or two of your life to enjoy the fruits of your labor carries a lot of risk as well. What is the risk of you dying prematurely? What is the risk of your health declining such that your quality of life suffers significantly? What about your loved ones, friends, and significant others? Will they be around and in good health too?
I get your point, and I generally agree, but I don't worry about the risk of dying permaturely because if I'm dead I don't think I will regret my decisions.
How about your family who didn't see much of you because you were always working? I say that as someone who's father dropped dead of a heart attack at 47 when I was 14.

DaftInvestor
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DaftInvestor » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:14 pm

Turbo29 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:07 pm
mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:55 am
Being conservative is good to an extent. However, I feel a good number of folks here forget that life is finite. Waiting until the last decade or two of your life to enjoy the fruits of your labor carries a lot of risk as well. What is the risk of you dying prematurely? What is the risk of your health declining such that your quality of life suffers significantly? What about your loved ones, friends, and significant others? Will they be around and in good health too?
I get your point, and I generally agree, but I don't worry about the risk of dying permaturely because if I'm dead I don't think I will regret my decisions.
How about your family who didn't see much of you because you were always working? I say that as someone who's father dropped dead of a heart attack at 47 when I was 14.
Sorry about your father. However, you shouldn't assume just because someone would prefer to enjoy life WHILE they keep working that they are less of a family man than someone that retired early. Especially if the person who retires early are like some of the MMM followers and in return have to dress their kids in potato sacks because they can't afford clothes without a job - and don't have proper insurance coverage :)
I don't plan on retiring too early since I don't mind working and enjoy consumerism throughout my life - versus having to wait until near the end (consumerism helps our investments by the way). However - I have ALWAYS reserved my weekends for my family/kids (would never take a job were I had to work weekends) and have ALWAYS taken and used my vacation time to spend with my kids. You can find a lot of time for family while you are working - you don't need to retire to do so.

You do NOT have to be retired to enjoy the fruits of your labor - you can do so along the way.

mptfan
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by mptfan » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:31 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:14 pm
Sorry about your father. However, you shouldn't assume just because someone would prefer to enjoy life WHILE they keep working that they are less of a family man than someone that retired early. Especially if the person who retires early are like some of the MMM followers and in return have to dress their kids in potato sacks because they can't afford clothes without a job - and don't have proper insurance coverage :)
Exactly. There are extreme examples on both ends of the spectrum....workaholics who never spend time with family and MMM types who deprive their family...but I think most people fall somewhere in the middle.

mtmingus
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by mtmingus » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:33 pm

cherijoh wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:33 pm
azanon wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:31 am
Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am
cableguy wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am
Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
Most of them will be working until at least until 65 even though the company has a rule of 60 (at least 50 years old with the sum of age + years of service equalling at least 60).
Do you get healthcare benefits when you reach the 60 threshold and retire?

renue74
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by renue74 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:12 pm

lostdog wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:20 am
cableguy wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am
Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
I've read and met a lot of people that FIRED before 40. It's actually quite the opposite of your statement. They're more mentally and physically healthy. Stuck in an office, facility or cubicle farm all day can have some serious physical and health issues for most.
I think about this a lot. It sorta comes down to people's opinion of their existence. It comes down to religion, lack of religion, etc.

What is the purpose of a person on earth and what does that person want to accomplish during their time on earth? How are we to spend out time on earth? Helping people? Acccumulating wealth? Progressing humanity? Sitting in a cubicle? Building water pumps for the poor? Feeding the hungry?

I don't know any FIRE individuals personally. But I don't judge people based on their desires to be financially independent. I think that FIRE people are very goal oriented and I applaud them for saving. I don't understand the backlash these people get?

I do have a problem with proselytizers....folks like Tony Robbins, etc. who profit from stuff like this. Yes...I know it's capitalism, but I feel like it's preying on people. I know people can make their own decisions and proselytizers have been around for centuries.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by lostdog » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:35 pm

If you master not caring what other people think, it will set you free. Some people make choices to construct their own prisons and others make a goal to free themselves from financial slavery. To each their own.
VT/VTWAX+BNDW

Teague
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Teague » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:33 pm

wolf359 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 am
Extreme early retirement isn't a new concept. Here is an article from Time magazine which references an even older photo essay published February,1957, in Life magazine, entitled "Young Retirement." https://time.com/4724817/early-retirement-photos/

It's possible to read the original Life article in Google Books (but not so easy to post a link to it.)

The hostility that the FIRE concept generates in some people on this forum is a little surprising to me.

The basic concepts behind the Bogleheads are completely compatible with the basic concepts behind FIRE. The only difference is a matter of degree.

There are many roads to Dublin. Personal finance is personal. The fact that someone accumulates enough assets and/or cuts expenses enough that they are done has nothing to do with you or me. Why let it bother you just because you wouldn't make the same choice?

It doesn't matter if they call themselves early retired or independently wealthy. It's a distinction without a difference.
I suspect the strong responses attached to this issue have less to do with objective finance than with some deeper emotional underpinnings. Imagine two persons, lets call them ProFire and AntiFire. Further, lets imagine a couple of conversations between them with their defenses suppressed. I'd guess they might go something like this:

Conversation 1
ProFire: Hey, what up brah? In case you're interested, I think I've found a way to retire earlier than most people, and a lot of other people seem to be catching on to this too. I think this is a better and definitely more fun way to live. In fact, there's this blog run by this guy, and it seems to make sense and I think it's working for a bunch of folks. I'm pretty excited.

AntiFire: Wow, this makes me really uncomfortable. If you're right about this, I've been doing it all wrong for decades, and I'm too old and/or too deep into the traditional system now to change things up. Crap. That would suck big time. I'd better justify the way I'm doing things; either that or I'm going to feel like a real jerk if you're right. Here, look at these facts and figures I've carefully selected. Do they convince you? No? Hmm, well then, this is still really uncomfortable for me. Dang. I think maybe I can at least convince myself if I try really hard. Here, look at these numbers again.

Conversation 2

Antifire: Good afternoon there young feller. You know, I just wanted to share a tried-and-true, albeit perhaps somewhat conservative, method for wealth accumulation. Done right, this technique will see you through good times and bad, sickness and health, 'till death do you and your nest egg part. Simply work steadily, save regularly, invest wisely and live frugally. And, I almost forgot, do that for about forty years. Taking shortcuts risks ruin and being forever forced to live under a bridge. And not even a nice bridge. It's that just that simple.

Profire: Dude, you totally sound like my parents! Do you even have any idea how old they are?! They're, like, really old. Gaah! I hate hearing these old coots tell me I don't know anything! But what you say does make me just a little nervous. I've tried living under a bridge before. Not that bad, but when I'm like sixty? Maybe not so hot. And the health insurance thing. Like, the last time I got road rash when my Trek slid out on that yogurt-slimed manhole cover I totally needed to see the doctor. Dang. If you're right about this stuff (and I always hated it when my antediluvian folks were right) then this FIRE thing may be a little dicey, especially if it doesn't all go right. Crap. Time to consult the Holy Blog, what does Gentleman Goatee Guru say? Let's see... ah, there we are. Alright old timer, look at these carefully selected bloggy facts and trending bloggy figures. Do they convince you? No? Hmm, well then, this is still really uncomfortable for me. Dang. I think maybe I can at least convince myself if I try really hard. Here, look at these numbers again.
Semper Augustus

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by AerialWombat » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:48 pm

lostdog wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:35 pm
If you master not caring what other people think, it will set you free. Some people make choices to construct their own prisons and others make a goal to free themselves from financial slavery. To each their own.
+1
Very well said. Cheers. :sharebeer
“Life doesn’t come with a warranty.” -Michael LeBoeuf

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by HawkeyePierce » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:50 pm

I view FIRE as risk mitigation.

I'm a young high earner in tech but there's zero guarantee this income continues over the course of my entire career. Reaching FIRE reduces my risk exposure to the wild swings of the tech industry. I'm making north of $300k today but is that sustainable? Compensation in my field has skyrocketed over the last few years but that comes with a lot of risk that it comes crashing back down.

FIRE also reduces the risk that I'm forced to follow the same lifestyle as my father. All hours on the phone or email. Weekends responding to crises. Vacations cancelled and interrupted without fail. I steadfastly refuse to live like that. FIRE lets me walk away from a situation I don't like.

I *like* my job and my career. I'm able to spend plenty of time away from work (currently I'm on a sabbatical in New Zealand). But will that last? Who knows?

Yes, FIRE has other risks. Sequence of return risk and healthcare risk are the big ones in my view.

To address sequence of return risk I'm considering moving my portfolio to something like azanon's improvements on the Dalio/Robbins risk parity portfolio. I would move to this upon reaching my goal number.

To address the lifestyle on FIRE, I think many in this thread assume everyone is aiming for "lean FIRE" and ignoring "fat FIRE". Not everyone aiming for FIRE is trying to get by on $30k a year. My personal goal is to generate between $80-100k of investment income per year. I'm going to get there by forgoing excessive consumption and carefully investing my savings. I'm not sure why that's so controversial.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by JamalJones » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:03 pm

mptfan wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm
Valuethinker wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:27 am
And life expectancies are now reaching over 100 (at least for middle class professionals).
Do you have a cite for that?
Haha! Yeah, I was thinking that too.... No way any significant number of "middle class professionals" are living to 100 or above. Check this out...
TSP + Vanguard Roth IRA + Vanguard Taxable: 80% equities / 20% bonds | Yap, yap, yap, yap, - the bottom line is ya gotta buckle up the chin strap!

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Freetime76 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:32 pm

Teague wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:33 pm
wolf359 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:50 am
Extreme early retirement isn't a new concept. Here is an article from Time magazine which references an even older photo essay published February,1957, in Life magazine, entitled "Young Retirement." https://time.com/4724817/early-retirement-photos/

It's possible to read the original Life article in Google Books (but not so easy to post a link to it.)

The hostility that the FIRE concept generates in some people on this forum is a little surprising to me.

The basic concepts behind the Bogleheads are completely compatible with the basic concepts behind FIRE. The only difference is a matter of degree.

There are many roads to Dublin. Personal finance is personal. The fact that someone accumulates enough assets and/or cuts expenses enough that they are done has nothing to do with you or me. Why let it bother you just because you wouldn't make the same choice?

It doesn't matter if they call themselves early retired or independently wealthy. It's a distinction without a difference.
I suspect the strong responses attached to this issue have less to do with objective finance than with some deeper emotional underpinnings. Imagine two persons, lets call them ProFire and AntiFire. Further, lets imagine a couple of conversations between them with their defenses suppressed. I'd guess they might go something like this:

Conversation 1
ProFire: Hey, what up brah? In case you're interested, I think I've found a way to retire earlier than most people, and a lot of other people seem to be catching on to this too. I think this is a better and definitely more fun way to live. In fact, there's this blog run by this guy, and it seems to make sense and I think it's working for a bunch of folks. I'm pretty excited.

AntiFire: Wow, this makes me really uncomfortable. If you're right about this, I've been doing it all wrong for decades, and I'm too old and/or too deep into the traditional system now to change things up. Crap. That would suck big time. I'd better justify the way I'm doing things; either that or I'm going to feel like a real jerk if you're right. Here, look at these facts and figures I've carefully selected. Do they convince you? No? Hmm, well then, this is still really uncomfortable for me. Dang. I think maybe I can at least convince myself if I try really hard. Here, look at these numbers again.

Conversation 2

Antifire: Good afternoon there young feller. You know, I just wanted to share a tried-and-true, albeit perhaps somewhat conservative, method for wealth accumulation. Done right, this technique will see you through good times and bad, sickness and health, 'till death do you and your nest egg part. Simply work steadily, save regularly, invest wisely and live frugally. And, I almost forgot, do that for about forty years. Taking shortcuts risks ruin and being forever forced to live under a bridge. And not even a nice bridge. It's that just that simple.

Profire: Dude, you totally sound like my parents! Do you even have any idea how old they are?! They're, like, really old. Gaah! I hate hearing these old coots tell me I don't know anything! But what you say does make me just a little nervous. I've tried living under a bridge before. Not that bad, but when I'm like sixty? Maybe not so hot. And the health insurance thing. Like, the last time I got road rash when my Trek slid out on that yogurt-slimed manhole cover I totally needed to see the doctor. Dang. If you're right about this stuff (and I always hated it when my antediluvian folks were right) then this FIRE thing may be a little dicey, especially if it doesn't all go right. Crap. Time to consult the Holy Blog, what does Gentleman Goatee Guru say? Let's see... ah, there we are. Alright old timer, look at these carefully selected bloggy facts and trending bloggy figures. Do they convince you? No? Hmm, well then, this is still really uncomfortable for me. Dang. I think maybe I can at least convince myself if I try really hard. Here, look at these numbers again.
Ha - pretty much sums it up. To each their own. One thing I'm pretty certain of (99.9999%) is that we can't predict the future, and if BH'ers are good at one thing, it is risk management :mrgreen:

Back to the OP: Heard a lot about it, haven't seen it. We'll probably get the dvd from the library. We're aiming for our own version of FIRE - taking it as we don't want to *have* to work the types of high-stress or high-hazard jobs just to earn more income that we used to be in previously (I already did bail, I mean RE... DH is remodeling the hamster wheel to suit himself). Fortunately, living with parents isn't on our bucket list...will watch the dvd just to see if that part is true and what the context is.
Cheers.

Pu239
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Pu239 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:48 pm

I'd watch a documentary like this if I thought it provided wisdom based on experience having done it and survived/thrived/failed or whatever. But it's just documenting the beginning - there is little experience to relate that will inform and educate the audience, not unlike so many Youtube videos that announce something like "Growing Figs in Cold Climates" when really it's some guy planting a cold-hardy fig tree and talking about how it should be done, not how it was done after several years of experimentation and showing the results. Make a documentary about someone like Vicki Robin and I'll watch it. I just don't see the point of watching yet another reality-like show.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Nords » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:11 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am
Like I said, I read the book. He is a fraud.

We all know what FIRE means, and this guy is NOT financially independent, and he is NOT retired.

He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!

There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.

Glad that I didn't pay for the book (borrowed from library).
Wow.

Of course he's not FI, and of course he's not retired. The whole documentary is about their journey, and they're years away from FI. They're very clear about that on the website and in the documentary. Taylor's working full-time (remote work). Scott's trying to work full-time as an indie film producer-- along with the accompanying book, perhaps the Audible version of the book, and maybe even a podcast.

At the end of the documentary, the final screen says that they'll reach FI in about 10 years. I think it's perfectly legitimate to earn money while you're creating content about your journey to FI.

It's deceitful to earn money after FI by selling products/advertising solely because you've realized that your FI finances aren't working out, and hiding that fact from your audience.

Did you happen to see the scenes in the documentary where Scott was shopping at the grocery store, spending his/Taylor's money to buy food which presumably was shared with all three generations under the same roof? You might have conflated "free rent" with a bunch of other "free" items which were actually cost-shared.

I've seen the documentary twice, and I spent most of a day participating in the filming. There was no "constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time interfering with his privacy". He's the director of the film crew, right?

Your over-generalizations of "fraud", "incredible mooch", and "bad person" make the rest of your assertions difficult to accept.

But good on you for reading the book from the library. I'm pretty sure Scott & Taylor would support that too.

For those who want to learn more about the making of the documentary, here's a panel discussion from FinCon18. My interviews and our surfing scenes didn't make the editing cut, but I have high hopes for the blooper reel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wGQBTmchUA

You can find a showing in your area by scrolling down the "Events" page:
https://www.playingwithfire.co/events
The 200+ members of the ChooseFI Honolulu group sold out a 135-seat theater last week, we're organizing a second showing (I'll be there again), and we're even exploring the demand for a CampFI Oahu hosted by the CampFI.org team.
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MICKFI
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by MICKFI » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:05 am

DW and I went to see it. There were 500 people in attendance. My takeaways:

- Good overview of what FI is if you were not familiar with it. The movie introduced the concept and the FI blogging stars (MMM, Mad Fientist, Millenial Revolution, JD Roth, JL Collins, ChooseFI, others).
- The young couple were making some tough decisions to change their lifestyle and values. Interesting that when they wrote down the top 10 things that made them happy, only two required money: wine and chocolate. The others were around relationships and time. I was surprised they ended up in Bend OR as that is a fairly expensive place to live. But I get it as Bend is beautiful and has a wonderful quality of life.
- The wife in the movie made the comment that she gets the long-term benefit of what they are trying to do, but the day-to-day was really hard (giving up the BMW for a 14 year old Honda CRV, buying less than her dream home, still having to work when she wanted more time with her daughter). I think that is what discourages people from getting control of their financial lives. It takes a really long time to see the payoff.
- The movie did a good job explaining that savings rate is key to FI and showed throughout their saving rate and years to FI based on that.
- We saw several families there with kids (early teens). I think the movie could help the younger generation to understand lifestyle choices and how that impacts financial freedom.

If you've been reading this board or other FI blogs, there wasn't anything new presented. It was fairly elementary. But if you hadn't heard of FI before, it could be eye-opening.

Overall, it was a nice date night.

ncbill
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by ncbill » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:23 am

HawkeyePierce wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:50 pm
I'm a young high earner in tech but there's zero guarantee this income continues over the course of my entire career. Reaching FIRE reduces my risk exposure to the wild swings of the tech industry. I'm making north of $300k today but is that sustainable? Compensation in my field has skyrocketed over the last few years but that comes with a lot of risk that it comes crashing back down.

FIRE also reduces the risk that I'm forced to follow the same lifestyle as my father. All hours on the phone or email. Weekends responding to crises. Vacations cancelled and interrupted without fail. I steadfastly refuse to live like that. FIRE lets me walk away from a situation I don't like.
Yep, that's the life for most white-collar, highly-compensated workers, at least here in the U.S.

Those who post some variant of "I can set my own hours, taking time off whenever I wish" remain in the minority.

And with retiring "normally" (age 65 or later) the risk isn't so much about death, but disability before you can enjoy your golden years...nearly all of us guys can forget about doing strenuous activities in our 80s....odds are we'll need walkers just to get around the house.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:15 am

nords,
Sorry I didn't see the documentary. I read the book. My post and my opinion is based on what I read in the book.
Funding secured

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Nords » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:46 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:15 am
nords,
Sorry I didn't see the documentary. I read the book. My post and my opinion is based on what I read in the book.
I think it's worth the time (and money) to give the documentary a chance to affect your current opinions.

I really enjoyed the audience reactions (applause, groans, laughter, gasps) in the theater.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by HomerJ » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:28 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am
You have my motive incorrect. It's actually coming out of concern, and yes I actually am trying to talk someone out of this plan. I just wouldn't have a clean conscience if I didn't at least try to talk someone out of quitting their 6-figure job at 38. As someone alluded to earlier, consider maybe counselling first, or perhaps consider a career change. A career change worked for MMM (webmaster, construction, consulting, and now actor), so maybe it will for you too, and maybe his therapist encouraged him to just say he was retired as a mental coping skill.
what word would you like people to use to convey the sum of the following concepts:
I have ceased working at a wage slave corporate America job
I only do things that I'm passionate about
I no longer am motivated by money, but i don't mind if the things i'm passionate about accidentally make money
if I don't make another time the rest of my life, i should be ok
I was so driven to get myself in a good spot, how can I do nothing and just drink cocktails on a beach all day.
If you need the extra money to pay for your expenses, you're not retired.

Financially independent is fine... You have enough to cover the basics, but you work a little bit on the side on things you enjoy for money to pay for the extras...

But that's not retired.

The extras matter... All these blog people have NOT lived 50 years without the "extras". It's possible one can be happy for 50 years without any "extras"... but we don't know... None of the blog people have done it.
The J stands for Jay

rj342
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by rj342 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:27 pm

I've only been on BH about a month or so, and at 54 don't have nearly as much as many do here of a comparable age.
Only ever broke 100k income (my job) for about 3 years before lost that job.

That said, I have little use for these younger guys in their mid-late 30s blogging bragging about their situations where
1) The are still very clearly working for non-trivial $$, just a bit unconventionally,
and, moreso...
2) Their journey a starts off with a really high savings rate while working, with a passing mention of how husband and wife were each making well over 100k in their 20s. That does NOT speak to most people in flyover country. A big sales pitch based on how savings + frugality can get you real far, so easy anyone can do it, is a bit dishonest when the key was make a lot of money for a while.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by averagedude » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:40 pm

I haven't been to a movie in 20 years, but my wife mentioned today how going to a movie, eating popcorn, and having a big drink could be fun since she seen on facebook that her friend was seeing the Lion King movie. I said " hey, there is this new movie our there called playing with fire that i would like to see." She said, "What is that, some bull crap movie about finance." I told her what the acronym fire stood for and i got an eye roll. It was funny for me.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Cycle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:24 pm

averagedude wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:40 pm
I haven't been to a movie in 20 years, but my wife mentioned today how going to a movie, eating popcorn, and having a big drink could be fun since she seen on facebook that her friend was seeing the Lion King movie. I said " hey, there is this new movie our there called playing with fire that i would like to see." She said, "What is that, some bull crap movie about finance." I told her what the acronym fire stood for and i got an eye roll. It was funny for me.
Much rather watch a rerun of jaws or Goonies at the 2nd run theater. Ive already read or listened to so much fire content there isn't much else to learn. Probably hundreds of hours spent reading / listening to FIRE content.

I think the FIRE movement could really open up the eyes of folks who aren't saving enough for retirement. I doubt many people would pull the FIRE trigger. I only know of one person who fired, he was 39 and has been fired for years.

I now track 4%. Currently at 64k at age 35. Targeting 120k. I will bail out of megacorp when we hit our number.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Traveler » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:13 pm

AerialWombat wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:05 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:59 am
KlangFool wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:55 am
I could FIRE in my home country at about 20K to 30K per year.
I pointed out earlier that costs in some countries are much lower than in the US. Thanks for reading the thread before posting.
I’m currently living in the US on 34k per year. I live in a brand new construction 1800 sq ft home, with a mortgage, in a MCOL area. I drive a late model car. I eat well (too well) and drink good single malt Scotch. I am not lacking for anything.

I could FIRE in the state I grew up in on $20k a year, in a decent house (not a mobile home), and not “looking” poor.

I could FIRE to Georgia, one of my favorite countries in the world, on $10k a year and live even better.
Does this include taxes? I could easily do that if I didn't include taxes, but since I pay more than $34K in taxes each year, it's impossible short of making nothing. Maybe that's the point, but it doesn't sound like you're retired so, you must be paying something in taxes.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by abuss368 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:38 pm

Want to see this.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by AerialWombat » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:50 pm

Traveler wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:13 pm

Does this include taxes? I could easily do that if I didn't include taxes, but since I pay more than $34K in taxes each year, it's impossible short of making nothing. Maybe that's the point, but it doesn't sound like you're retired so, you must be paying something in taxes.
Yes, I pay far in excess of $34k/yr in taxes, also. I have a very high savings rate for the time being. The $34k is what I actually spend on personal living/lifestyle expenses. If I was only earning about $37k gross, then I could easily support my current lifestyle after Federal income tax (no state tax).

The point of the side conversation was that whenever these FIRE threads pop up, some people always say it’s impossible or impractical, because they view it through the lens of *their* lifestyle cost, ignoring the simple fact that millions of Americans get by just fine on far less and are not sacrificing anything in quality of life.
“Life doesn’t come with a warranty.” -Michael LeBoeuf

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by bhsince87 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:58 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:36 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:28 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am
You have my motive incorrect. It's actually coming out of concern, and yes I actually am trying to talk someone out of this plan. I just wouldn't have a clean conscience if I didn't at least try to talk someone out of quitting their 6-figure job at 38. As someone alluded to earlier, consider maybe counselling first, or perhaps consider a career change. A career change worked for MMM (webmaster, construction, consulting, and now actor), so maybe it will for you too, and maybe his therapist encouraged him to just say he was retired as a mental coping skill.
what word would you like people to use to convey the sum of the following concepts:
I have ceased working at a wage slave corporate America job
I only do things that I'm passionate about
I no longer am motivated by money, but i don't mind if the things i'm passionate about accidentally make money
if I don't make another time the rest of my life, i should be ok
I was so driven to get myself in a good spot, how can I do nothing and just drink cocktails on a beach all day.
If you need the extra money to pay for your expenses, you're not retired.

Financially independent is fine... You have enough to cover the basics, but you work a little bit on the side on things you enjoy for money to pay for the extras...

But that's not retired.

The extras matter... All these blog people have NOT lived 50 years without the "extras". It's possible one can be happy for 50 years without any "extras"... but we don't know... None of the blog people have done it.
Would you say that Shaquille O'neal is retired? Johnny Bench? Dale Earnhardt Junior?

I see them all still making money on TV, but IMO, they are all most definitely retired.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace." Samuel Adams

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by visualguy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:07 am

bhsince87 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:58 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:36 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:28 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am
You have my motive incorrect. It's actually coming out of concern, and yes I actually am trying to talk someone out of this plan. I just wouldn't have a clean conscience if I didn't at least try to talk someone out of quitting their 6-figure job at 38. As someone alluded to earlier, consider maybe counselling first, or perhaps consider a career change. A career change worked for MMM (webmaster, construction, consulting, and now actor), so maybe it will for you too, and maybe his therapist encouraged him to just say he was retired as a mental coping skill.
what word would you like people to use to convey the sum of the following concepts:
I have ceased working at a wage slave corporate America job
I only do things that I'm passionate about
I no longer am motivated by money, but i don't mind if the things i'm passionate about accidentally make money
if I don't make another time the rest of my life, i should be ok
I was so driven to get myself in a good spot, how can I do nothing and just drink cocktails on a beach all day.
If you need the extra money to pay for your expenses, you're not retired.

Financially independent is fine... You have enough to cover the basics, but you work a little bit on the side on things you enjoy for money to pay for the extras...

But that's not retired.

The extras matter... All these blog people have NOT lived 50 years without the "extras". It's possible one can be happy for 50 years without any "extras"... but we don't know... None of the blog people have done it.
Would you say that Shaquille O'neal is retired? Johnny Bench? Dale Earnhardt Junior?

I see them all still making money on TV, but IMO, they are all most definitely retired.
They are retired from one endeavor, but still engaged in paid work. Like many here, I have a hard time calling "retired" someone who works and gets paid for that. I'm ok with "retired from football", or "retired from software engineering", but not with simply "retired" if the person still works for money.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:14 am

visualguy wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:07 am
bhsince87 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:58 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:36 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:28 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am
You have my motive incorrect. It's actually coming out of concern, and yes I actually am trying to talk someone out of this plan. I just wouldn't have a clean conscience if I didn't at least try to talk someone out of quitting their 6-figure job at 38. As someone alluded to earlier, consider maybe counselling first, or perhaps consider a career change. A career change worked for MMM (webmaster, construction, consulting, and now actor), so maybe it will for you too, and maybe his therapist encouraged him to just say he was retired as a mental coping skill.
what word would you like people to use to convey the sum of the following concepts:
I have ceased working at a wage slave corporate America job
I only do things that I'm passionate about
I no longer am motivated by money, but i don't mind if the things i'm passionate about accidentally make money
if I don't make another time the rest of my life, i should be ok
I was so driven to get myself in a good spot, how can I do nothing and just drink cocktails on a beach all day.
If you need the extra money to pay for your expenses, you're not retired.

Financially independent is fine... You have enough to cover the basics, but you work a little bit on the side on things you enjoy for money to pay for the extras...

But that's not retired.

The extras matter... All these blog people have NOT lived 50 years without the "extras". It's possible one can be happy for 50 years without any "extras"... but we don't know... None of the blog people have done it.
Would you say that Shaquille O'neal is retired? Johnny Bench? Dale Earnhardt Junior?

I see them all still making money on TV, but IMO, they are all most definitely retired.
They are retired from one endeavor, but still engaged in paid work. Like many here, I have a hard time calling "retired" someone who works and gets paid for that. I'm ok with "retired from football", or "retired from software engineering", but not with simply "retired" if the person still works for money.
Also, most "Emeritus" professors I know, still do some speaking and other engagements, but they are effectively retired from their main teaching pursuits.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by HomerJ » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:24 am

bhsince87 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:58 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:36 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:28 am
azanon wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:30 am
You have my motive incorrect. It's actually coming out of concern, and yes I actually am trying to talk someone out of this plan. I just wouldn't have a clean conscience if I didn't at least try to talk someone out of quitting their 6-figure job at 38. As someone alluded to earlier, consider maybe counselling first, or perhaps consider a career change. A career change worked for MMM (webmaster, construction, consulting, and now actor), so maybe it will for you too, and maybe his therapist encouraged him to just say he was retired as a mental coping skill.
what word would you like people to use to convey the sum of the following concepts:
I have ceased working at a wage slave corporate America job
I only do things that I'm passionate about
I no longer am motivated by money, but i don't mind if the things i'm passionate about accidentally make money
if I don't make another time the rest of my life, i should be ok
I was so driven to get myself in a good spot, how can I do nothing and just drink cocktails on a beach all day.
If you need the extra money to pay for your expenses, you're not retired.

Financially independent is fine... You have enough to cover the basics, but you work a little bit on the side on things you enjoy for money to pay for the extras...

But that's not retired.

The extras matter... All these blog people have NOT lived 50 years without the "extras". It's possible one can be happy for 50 years without any "extras"... but we don't know... None of the blog people have done it.
Would you say that Shaquille O'neal is retired? Johnny Bench? Dale Earnhardt Junior?

I see them all still making money on TV, but IMO, they are all most definitely retired.
Making money isn't the test. The test is if you need the money.

Hey, quitting a full-time job you hate for a part-time job you like is a HUGE win. You've really accomplished something.

But you don't get to say "I'm retired with $1 million pulling $40,000 and life is great", when you are really spending $60,000 a year using money from your part-time job (or from your blog income).

Most of these bloggers have NOT lived the minimal life they are promoting for more than a couple of years.

They all say "I'd be totally happy with the bare minimum for the rest of my life", because they were pretty happy living minimally for 2-3 years in their healthy 30s. But very few people have actually done it for 50 years and reported back.

Again, as long as they are honest about the need for part-time work, it's all good. And many are. But if you need part-time work, you're not retired. But you are financially independent, and that's pretty awesome.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:38 am

The FIRE acronym is meaningless. These FIRE types are not financially independent and not retired.

What's next? Accumulate a net worth of $34,000 and call yourself a millionaire?
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by CFM300 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:48 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am
He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!
I would characterize that passage differently. Here's the full paragraph from the book:

"The next morning, I was feeling just as stressed and doubtful. I wanted to have a quiet breakfast alone with Taylor [wife] and Jovie [daughter], but of course my parents were there, so we couldn't. I resented their presence, and I felt worse for feeling this way: My parents were putting us up, cleaning up after us, providing free daycare, and feeding us, and I knew full well how lucky we were. And I'm sure it wasn't roses them either. I appreciated all that my parents were doing for us, but I missed our former lives in San Diego. I missed our friends. For a fleeting moment, I even missed the comfort of my old job."
DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am
There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.
I just finished reading the book -- after having read your post -- and so was looking for other examples. I saw none.

Here's the paragraph about the film crew:

"Last month, we shot our very last scene for the documentary. It was a bittersweet moment, full of relief and sadness. After nearly a year of being filmed, Taylor and I were getting tired of the camera. We hadn't anticipated the intrusiveness, and being subjects of the film required us to be introspective at times when we would have rather looked forward or turned off our brains completely. But the crew had also become like family.
... I looked around at the table and took [the crew] in. This was a family gathering, and we were going to miss our family dearly."

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:55 pm

CFM300- thanks for sharing your view. Seriously.

At least we can agree there was actually a book. (one poster informed me there was no book).
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CFM300
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by CFM300 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:39 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:55 pm
CFM300- thanks for sharing your view. Seriously.

At least we can agree there was actually a book. (one poster informed me there was no book).
Like you, I checked it out from my local library. :beer

wrongfunds
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:13 am

Wow, somebody really knows how to extract a sentence and *intentionally* leave out the context to earn brownie points!

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by tj » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:13 pm

Nords wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:11 am
DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am
Like I said, I read the book. He is a fraud.

We all know what FIRE means, and this guy is NOT financially independent, and he is NOT retired.

He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!

There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.

Glad that I didn't pay for the book (borrowed from library).
Wow.

Of course he's not FI, and of course he's not retired. The whole documentary is about their journey, and they're years away from FI. They're very clear about that on the website and in the documentary. Taylor's working full-time (remote work). Scott's trying to work full-time as an indie film producer-- along with the accompanying book, perhaps the Audible version of the book, and maybe even a podcast.

At the end of the documentary, the final screen says that they'll reach FI in about 10 years. I think it's perfectly legitimate to earn money while you're creating content about your journey to FI.

It's deceitful to earn money after FI by selling products/advertising solely because you've realized that your FI finances aren't working out, and hiding that fact from your audience.

Did you happen to see the scenes in the documentary where Scott was shopping at the grocery store, spending his/Taylor's money to buy food which presumably was shared with all three generations under the same roof? You might have conflated "free rent" with a bunch of other "free" items which were actually cost-shared.

I've seen the documentary twice, and I spent most of a day participating in the filming. There was no "constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time interfering with his privacy". He's the director of the film crew, right?

Your over-generalizations of "fraud", "incredible mooch", and "bad person" make the rest of your assertions difficult to accept.

But good on you for reading the book from the library. I'm pretty sure Scott & Taylor would support that too.

For those who want to learn more about the making of the documentary, here's a panel discussion from FinCon18. My interviews and our surfing scenes didn't make the editing cut, but I have high hopes for the blooper reel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wGQBTmchUA

You can find a showing in your area by scrolling down the "Events" page:
https://www.playingwithfire.co/events
The 200+ members of the ChooseFI Honolulu group sold out a 135-seat theater last week, we're organizing a second showing (I'll be there again), and we're even exploring the demand for a CampFI Oahu hosted by the CampFI.org team.

Even ChooseFI Maui sold out a local theater. I was shocked.

DaftInvestor
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:03 pm

WAIT! There is a demographics problem here!

I would think that anyone that is truly drinking the cool-aid of the MMM types and "Playing with FIRE" wouldn't spend the money to go to the movies and therefore wouldn't see this particular movie. :confused

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:14 pm

I’ll see it. Some of my friends and acquaintances are in it. From what I hear it is extremely well done.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KyleAAA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am
Like I said, I read the book. He is a fraud.

We all know what FIRE means, and this guy is NOT financially independent, and he is NOT retired.

He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!

There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.

Glad that I didn't pay for the book (borrowed from library).
He also does not claim to be financially independent or retired. He is in the process of TRYING to b both. I don’t see how that makes him a fraud.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Jebediah » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:24 pm

Yeah - but even in those early years he wasn't Retired (he was doing Construction work). I know - he has some blog that name-calls folks that like to point this out. But still....a blog post with name-calling doesn't make it not true.
He also wasn't financially independent those first few years - he showed his finances - there is no way he could pay for his kids medical needs without assistance. No responsible parent would raise kids with little savings/spending and no job. If he didn't have kids I maybe wouldn't have been turned off by him as much as I was (I also wasn't surprised when I learned he got divorced).
Not true-- his family had medical insurance with an out-of-pocket maximum that he could afford to pay.

He calls people like you the Internet Retirement Police because you mischaracterize (just like you did here) his deal out of an apparent bitterness over other people's happiness and success-- not a good look, sorry.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by countmein » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:32 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am
cableguy wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am
Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
Perhaps you have it backwards:

Sticking around in a paid job until one turns 65 (or later) because of a lack of savings, or a lack of vision to do something else with one's life, or an unwillingness to take risks, or for whatever other reason, is really laziness in disguise or a showing of mental health issues.

It isn't really all that difficult to just do the same thing, day after day, until some society-approved appointed time. Maybe doing that is the laziest thing in the world that someone can do. It doesn't require any real initiative, vision, gumption, or thought. It is just living a mindless life.

Or you can work really hard and save substantial amounts of money in a compressed period of time, take a risk that being different from the rest of society will work out, and explore your life and the world in a way that maybe only makes sense to you. That doesn't sound like laziness to me.
well said, Random Poster

DaftInvestor
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:58 am

Jebediah wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 pm

He calls people like you the Internet Retirement Police because you mischaracterize (just like you did here) his deal out of an apparent bitterness over other people's happiness and success-- not a good look, sorry.
LOL - no bitterness here. I raised my kids the old fashioned way - one of us stayed home while the other worked (in a job I enjoy - with weekends and vacations spent with family). I am successful, happy and, as a bonus which he doesn't enjoy, still married after 27 years.

(Biking to the store out of necessity for lack of gas money and having to work on someone's house to take my kids to Hawaii is cetainly not how I would define success nor happiness. Different strokes for different folks.).

Whakamole
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Whakamole » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:27 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:58 am

(Biking to the store out of necessity for lack of gas money and having to work on someone's house to take my kids to Hawaii is cetainly not how I would define success nor happiness. Different strokes for different folks.).
Trading labor for a vacation trip is no different than what those of us who work do :beer

DaftInvestor
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Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:36 am

Whakamole wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:27 am
DaftInvestor wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:58 am

(Biking to the store out of necessity for lack of gas money and having to work on someone's house to take my kids to Hawaii is cetainly not how I would define success nor happiness. Different strokes for different folks.).
Trading labor for a vacation trip is no different than what those of us who work do :beer
Exaclty my original point - he wasn't really retired (but because I stated that I must be bitter :)). In my case - I'd rather keep my current job than switch to construction. I'd also rather continue to work and enjoy life to its fullest while doing so (but somehow that means I must not be happy and successful).

racy
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Location: Nebraska

Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by racy » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:10 am

Us Hippies in the '60s were anti-establishment, back to nature and minimalist, too. Yet, here we are ... wealthy! :wink:

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