Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

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Colorado13
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Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Colorado13 »

I'm debating whether I should take the time (and part with some cold hard cash) to see this documentary in the theatre. Has anyone seen it? If so, thumbs up or thumbs down?
azanon
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by azanon »

Here's a link to the trailer (or one link to the trailer): https://www.tugg.com/events/playing-with-fire-_tzj
Leesbro63
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Leesbro63 »

They’re talking about this on the MrMoneyMustache site. Should be interesting.
azanon
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by azanon »

Looks like the movie will hit on a thought I've had from the beginning; I came from a very poor town in eastern Arkansas, where even today, the per capita household income is ~ 18K/year. So from my POV, I saw a great many people living on not a lot of money per year all growing up, but I'll tell you one thing about that - I didn't and still don't envy any of them and, if anything, it was an incentive to not be like that.

So for me it's a hard sell to actually strive to be, more-or-less, just like them - they don't live on much and most of them don't work either so I don't see much of a difference tbh. And to actually get a degree, and a 6-figure job only to voluntarily be just like someone from my hometown - crazy!

Now if you're income is so high, that you can save half of it, and still live on ~ 75K/year or more (I picked that figure cause I saw a study where happiness plateaued around there) in early retirement, then I'm all for that. Sign me up.
Last edited by azanon on Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Meg77 »

I haven't seen it yet, but they talked about it on a recent ChooseFI podcast that I listened to yesterday. They seemed to give it a good review - said it was surprisingly funny and resonant and exciting. I don't know that I'll bother to see it in the theater, but I definitely plan to watch it at some point.
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cableguy
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by cableguy »

Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. [OT comment removed by Moderator Misenplace.]
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Dumello »

I did see the movie and I thought it was very well done. While it's billed as being about a couple's path to FIRE, it is much more. The bigger arc is about the tough choices that need to be made when your goal is to increase savings and reduce spending. The parts that resonated with me were their struggles to find the optimal level of savings/spending and weighing the trade-offs of living well/better today vs. retiring sooner, and finding that balance. The couple's transition from high-spending to high-savings and the emotional, social, and financial bumps on the way was very revealing.

It's no Shawshank Redemption, but I would recommend it. I think there is something for everyone whether your goal is to FIRE or not.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by prd1982 »

cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am Looks and sounds depressing.
Agree with you. However, from what I read, highly paid IT folks should considered planning for forced FIRE. A lot of these jobs appear to me to be young-person jobs.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by mcraepat9 »

Colorado13 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:09 am I'm debating whether I should take the time (and part with some cold hard cash) to see this documentary in the theatre. Has anyone seen it? If so, thumbs up or thumbs down?
LOL - not sure why I found that parenthetical so funny in relation to a FIRE documentary.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by runner3081 »

cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
That is quite an accusation there. Who says we are meant to work most of our lives? What if money and things don't matter to these people?

Obviously, the lifestyle is not for you, but that doesn't mean people who pursue and achieve it are lazy or have a mental illness.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny »

I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KlangFool »

runner3081 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:50 am
cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
That is quite an accusation there. Who says we are meant to work most of our lives? What if money and things don't matter to these people?

Obviously, the lifestyle is not for you, but that doesn't mean people who pursue and achieve it are lazy or have a mental illness.
runner3081,

1) Folks that choose to FIRE do not care about other's opinion.

2) In fact, as per my observation, by definition, people that are LBYM are not normal at all since average American save close to nothing.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

Is there a DVD out there? I get a better ROI by buying a DVD.

Thanks in advance.

KlangFool
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by lostdog »

cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
I've read and met a lot of people that FIRED before 40. It's actually quite the opposite of your statement. They're more mentally and physically healthy. Stuck in an office, facility or cubicle farm all day can have some serious physical and health issues for most.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by lostdog »

DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
Who was the author? This documentary was not based off of a book... :oops:
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Dottie57 »

DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
Can you explain why you see him as a complete fraud?
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by onourway »

azanon wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am Looks like the movie will hit on a thought I've had from the beginning; I came from a very poor town in eastern Arkansas, where even today, the per capita household income is ~ 18K/year. So from my POV, I saw a great many people living on not a lot of money per year all growing up, but I'll tell you one thing about that - I didn't and still don't envy any of them and, if anything, it was an incentive to not be like that.

So for me it's a hard sell to actually strive to be, more-or-less, just like them - they don't live on much and most of them don't work either so I don't see much of a difference tbh. And to actually get a degree, and a 6-figure job only to voluntarily be just like someone from my hometown - crazy!

Now if you're income is so high, that you can save half of it, and still live on ~ 75K/year or more (I picked that figure cause I saw a study where happiness plateaued around there) in early retirement, then I'm all for that. Sign me up.
I think that choosing to live a simple life on a small amount of income generated from your investments while working part time or not at all is a very different experience than living on that same amount of money while working full time and having no savings.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by azanon »

onourway wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:30 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am Looks like the movie will hit on a thought I've had from the beginning; I came from a very poor town in eastern Arkansas, where even today, the per capita household income is ~ 18K/year. So from my POV, I saw a great many people living on not a lot of money per year all growing up, but I'll tell you one thing about that - I didn't and still don't envy any of them and, if anything, it was an incentive to not be like that.

So for me it's a hard sell to actually strive to be, more-or-less, just like them - they don't live on much and most of them don't work either so I don't see much of a difference tbh. And to actually get a degree, and a 6-figure job only to voluntarily be just like someone from my hometown - crazy!

Now if you're income is so high, that you can save half of it, and still live on ~ 75K/year or more (I picked that figure cause I saw a study where happiness plateaued around there) in early retirement, then I'm all for that. Sign me up.
I think that choosing to live a simple life on a small amount of income generated from your investments while working part time or not at all is a very different experience than living on that same amount of money while working full time and having no savings.
I'm not sure who you're referring to. I explicitly said most of them don't work either. At the end of the day, what difference does it make if it's assisted living and money coming from the government, vs. money from very modest savings relative to one's remaining lifespan. To be quite frank, it all looks like poor to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm as empathetic as possible to anyone in this situation where life's circumstances gave them no choice. But to voluntarily choose that? I think i'll pass on that!
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by onourway »

azanon wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:37 am I'm not sure who you're referring to. I explicitly said most of them don't work either. At the end of the day, what difference does it make if it's assisted living and money coming from the government, vs. money from very modest savings relative to one's remaining lifespan. To be quite frank, it all looks like poor to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm as empathetic as possible to anyone in this situation where life's circumstances gave them no choice. But to voluntarily choose that? I think i'll pass on that!
Choice is the crux of the issue here. I suspect few on government assistance would consider themselves 'secure' as there are generally hoops to jump through in order to receive benefits, the risk of changes to benefits in the future, and limits on what housing is accessible to them and so on. They have little choice; much of what happens in their life is dictated by factors outside their control. Choosing to live simply while having plenty is an entirely different position. For some people material goods beyond a certain base level bring no additional happiness. But having a say in the matter is everything.
Last edited by onourway on Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE »

DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
What makes him a fraud? I'm assuming you're referring to Scott Rieckens, the director and author of the book. I've chatted with him over beers. He's a genuine, friendly guy, orginally from a small town in Iowa. The book and movie put him and his family and their emotions on display for the world to see. Seems like the opposite of fraudulent to me.

This movie was discussed after the trailer was released. I liked the comment from @Nords in response to some very negative commentary (which follows):

"Wow, guys, a few of these posts have some pretty cynical commentary. I hope you’ll take the time to learn a little more about the project.

It’s not about "extreme" nickel-squeezing for the 4% SWR (let alone enduring “sacrifice” or deprivation), although I made a point about saving $16K/year on a $40K/year salary. Most of the documentary is about the emotional impact of rejecting consumerism for work-life balance and a better lifestyle. It’s a lot more “Your Money Or Your Life” than the Trinity Study. It'd be nice if everyone simply applied their Vulcan logic to their finances, but the producers highlight the fear and uncertainty which comes with huge changes. It's no coincidence that the Rieckens jumped off the hedonic treadmill when they started their family.

I’d hope that the participation of Vicki Robin and Jim Collins would reassure even the most skeptical Boglehead, let alone persuade new viewers who haven’t even learned to spell FI yet.

Travis and Scott have been working on the documentary for over two years. (I first met Travis at FinCon16.) The production is independent, not Hollywood, yet those two have several Emmys and more nominations between themselves. When I interviewed it was with Scott, his spouse Taylor, and two local contractor camera crew. During filming breaks the camera guys pestered me with questions: "Wait, what, you were how old when you quit working? And, dude, you're surfing too?!? What about that part we just shot where you said you can track your expenses and..."

I'd like to think that they're changing their lives too.

My interview (among a dozen other financially independent people) was filmed at Hanalei on Kauai. (I flew over from Oahu. We must’ve e-mailed back&forth for a year to finally align our schedules.) Scott & Taylor (with their daughter & Scott’s parents) were housesitting for friends during a couple months and ended up dealing with last April’s torrential downpour and flooding. (They were flooded out of the ground floor at 2 AM with several feet of runoff from Hanalei River overflowing its banks.) Then they spent the next couple weeks volunteering with the community helping to clean up the debris and clear the beach. Hanalei is no longer a disaster zone (thanks to extraordinary effort from its residents) but civil defense and the National Guard are still rebuilding the washed-out highway and pulling security duty around the Na Pali coastline access.

We interviewed on that home's same ground floor (it had dried out by then) for over three hours. Afterward we spent another couple hours surfing Hanalei Bay while the camera crew scampered back & forth on the beach. (At one point they were filming chest-deep in the shorebreak.) Sure, we talked about high savings rates and all the other financial minutiae of FI-- but we’re demonstrating lifestyle. It'll be interesting to see how much of the surfing makes the documentary-- even the part where Scott ran over my longboard.

Scott’s and Taylor’s evolving life changes are the narrative that tie the documentary together, and they spend a certain amount of time introducing the concepts to people who’ve never heard of it before. (Spoiler: they're going to reach FI.) Yet they're not the focus of the documentary. They dug deep for interviews and they have hundreds of hours of material. In addition to the documentary there’ll be a book and many more shorter videos. I'm hoping for a blooper reel so that I'm more confident that I'll make the cut on the editing.

For those of you who don't know me yet, I've been retired from the military for over 16 years and I donate all of my writing revenue to military-friendly charities. The submarine force taught me to squeeze a nickel until the buffalo cries tears of pain, but I no longer do so. Like PhysicianOnFIRE, I backed the Kickstarter with $100 (of my own money, not book royalties) as soon as it started. We were in the same large conference room with about 2000 other cheering FinCon attendees, and boy did the nation's largest gathering of money nerds burn the bandwidth to start a social-media buzz. (I think the Kickstarter was 25% of the way to the goal within 48 hours.) The whole point of the crowdsourcing campaign is to show Sundance (and other film festivals) that this is a trend, not just a niche interest for a YouTuber cult. Once those numbers come to the attention of the industry, the documentary will get the distribution contracts it needs to do far more than a Netflix evening."
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DesertDiva »

lostdog wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:22 am
DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
Who was the author? This documentary was not based off of a book... :oops:
There is a book according to this website:
https://www.playingwithfire.co/

So he’s allegedly “RE” but making money from books and movies. 🤔
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by azanon »

onourway wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:50 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:37 am I'm not sure who you're referring to. I explicitly said most of them don't work either. At the end of the day, what difference does it make if it's assisted living and money coming from the government, vs. money from very modest savings relative to one's remaining lifespan. To be quite frank, it all looks like poor to me.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm as empathetic as possible to anyone in this situation where life's circumstances gave them no choice. But to voluntarily choose that? I think i'll pass on that!
Choice is the crux of the issue here. I suspect few on government assistance would consider themselves 'secure' as there are generally hoops to jump through in order to consider to receive benefits, the risk of changes to benefits in the future, and limits on what housing is accessible to them and so on. They have little choice; much of what happens in their life is dictated by factors outside their control. Choosing to live simply while having plenty is an entirely different position. For some people material goods beyond a certain base level bring no additional happiness. But having a say in the matter is everything.
I only watched the preview of the "Playing with FIRE" once, but from what I gathered by the family that they shadowed, they feel anything but "secure" about it (FIRE). Heck, consider the meaning of the title.... I agree with the title - that's exactly what it is. I don't recommend it.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by batpot »

lostdog wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:22 am
DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
Who was the author? This documentary was not based off of a book... :oops:
This book/movie (author is Scott Rieckens):
https://www.playingwithfire.co/meet-the-team

NOT this one (starring John Cena):
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9134216/

I'd also like to know what makes Scott a fraud.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Random Poster »

cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
Perhaps you have it backwards:

Sticking around in a paid job until one turns 65 (or later) because of a lack of savings, or a lack of vision to do something else with one's life, or an unwillingness to take risks, or for whatever other reason, is really laziness in disguise or a showing of mental health issues.

It isn't really all that difficult to just do the same thing, day after day, until some society-approved appointed time. Maybe doing that is the laziest thing in the world that someone can do. It doesn't require any real initiative, vision, gumption, or thought. It is just living a mindless life.

Or you can work really hard and save substantial amounts of money in a compressed period of time, take a risk that being different from the rest of society will work out, and explore your life and the world in a way that maybe only makes sense to you. That doesn't sound like laziness to me.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Hulu »

A bunch of BostonFI and Boston MMM folks went to the screening. Didn’t hear anything amazing or terrible about it. They said the focus was a little bit exaggerated on frugality. I’d like to see it. And yes, people making money from something adds an element of skepticism. But how else would someone promote and support their work? I guess if proceeds went to further financial literacy or something.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Hulu »

A bunch of BostonFI and Boston MMM folks went to the screening. Didn’t hear anything amazing or terrible about it. They said the focus was a little bit exaggerated on frugality. I’d like to see it. And yes, people making money from something adds an element of skepticism. But how else would someone promote and support their work? I guess if proceeds went to further financial literacy or something.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Godot »

runner3081 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:50 am
cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
That is quite an accusation there. Who says we are meant to work most of our lives? What if money and things don't matter to these people?

Obviously, the lifestyle is not for you, but that doesn't mean people who pursue and achieve it are lazy or have a mental illness.
+1
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by tedgeorge »

Shame on them for proclaiming "retirement" but hooray for the person who "quit" their day job to follow their passion and became successful? Did I get that right? :shock:
azanon
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by azanon »

Random Poster wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am
cableguy wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:57 am Looks and sounds depressing. Watched the trailer. Go to work, always save, spend less than you make, be kind to people have fun along the way....seems to be the winning formula if you ask me. The rush to "retire" before age 40 is really laziness in disguise and potential mental health issues if you ask me...
Perhaps you have it backwards:

Sticking around in a paid job until one turns 65 (or later) because of a lack of savings, or a lack of vision to do something else with one's life, or an unwillingness to take risks, or for whatever other reason, is really laziness in disguise or a showing of mental health issues.

It isn't really all that difficult to just do the same thing, day after day, until some society-approved appointed time. Maybe doing that is the laziest thing in the world that someone can do. It doesn't require any real initiative, vision, gumption, or thought. It is just living a mindless life.

Or you can work really hard and save substantial amounts of money in a compressed period of time, take a risk that being different from the rest of society will work out, and explore your life and the world in a way that maybe only makes sense to you. That doesn't sound like laziness to me.
Now there's a strawman argument for you! Back to reality, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find any boglehead advocating working to 65 or later with no savings, and unwilling to take risks (e.g. not invest in the stock market).

How about propose a more sensible career alternative that includes healthy savings and plenty of vision and sensible risk-taking along the way, or is that going to make the extreme FIRE suggestion look a little bit silly by comparison? Hmm... ok I see the problem now.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KlangFool »

tedgeorge wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:25 am Shame on them for proclaiming "retirement" but hooray for the person who "quit" their day job to follow their passion and became successful? Did I get that right? :shock:
+1,000.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:00 am OP,

Is there a DVD out there? I get a better ROI by buying a DVD.

Thanks in advance.

KlangFool
No DVD yet. Backers of the kickstarter were given a short usage code for Vimeo to watch early. Now they are doing a theatre screening tour to prove demand. When Scott/Taylor (with Vikki Robin and JD Roth) were in Seattle for the showing, they mentioned if there is enough theatre screening tour demand, that is how they prove to streaming platforms that it should get picked up.

I have seen the movie and heard Scott/Taylor talk in person humbly about the experience. (Taylors family was at the Seattle showing) My interpretation is that the movie is supposed to be the spark that lights the FIRE for people to become interested in personal finance.

FIRE has been discussed (even in the movie) that RE is really optional and most driven people don't actually RE, they use the FI powers to do things they want and things they care about, which becomes evident. That is sort of the meta-story about the story. (if that makes any sense).

The sales pitch of, I want you to work hard and save your money so you can quit your job and work hard (doing things that matter to you). is a lot harder than FIRE, the joke of it is most people don't RE if they actually achieve it early in life.

While my wife and I are approaching our FI milestone, i plan to quit doing software development, as i am progressing through the CFP curriculum and plan to start my own small Advisory Firm.

FI is a license to take risk.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by tenkuky »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:00 am OP,

Is there a DVD out there? I get a better ROI by buying a DVD.

Thanks in advance.

KlangFool
And I better the ROI by waiting for the public library to get a copy (or inter-library loan) and borrow it for free. :mrgreen:
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny »

lostdog wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:22 am
DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
Who was the author? This documentary was not based off of a book... :oops:
Indeed it was. :oops:
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Shallowpockets »

Forget FIRE. Shorten it to FI, or at least financial security. Not much of a bar when many people are only 1-2 paychecks from money problems.
The immense relief one has and lowered stress one can live their life when they are even able to have an emergency fund is profound. So the higher bar of FI/FIRE does not need to even be reached. Don't let your eyes glaze over about the RE part.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KlangFool »

tenkuky wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:47 am
KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:00 am OP,

Is there a DVD out there? I get a better ROI by buying a DVD.

Thanks in advance.

KlangFool
And I better the ROI by waiting for the public library to get a copy (or inter-library loan) and borrow it for free. :mrgreen:
tenkuky,

Correct in term of ROI. But, I want them to make some money from me. It is a worthwhile effort. I want to sponsor this.

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by KlangFool »

Shallowpockets wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:51 am Forget FIRE. Shorten it to FI, or at least financial security. Not much of a bar when many people are only 1-2 paychecks from money problems.
The immense relief one has and lowered stress one can live their life when they are even able to have an emergency fund is profound. So the higher bar of FI/FIRE does not need to even be reached. Don't let your eyes glaze over about the RE part.
Yes, but controversy is great for spreading the story......

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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by DanMahowny »

Like I said, I read the book. He is a fraud.

We all know what FIRE means, and this guy is NOT financially independent, and he is NOT retired.

He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!

There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.

Glad that I didn't pay for the book (borrowed from library).
Funding secured
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

KlangFool wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:52 am Correct in term of ROI. But, I want them to make some money from me. It is a worthwhile effort. I want to sponsor this.

KlangFool
From the discussion in Seattle:

1. The community raised money with the Kickstarter - Past
2. The community can buy tickets at screenings - This demonstrates demand to streaming platforms, other distribution mechanisms - Current
3. The community can respond to an unknown ask that will be coming - In the QA people asked how best can they support beside #2, and the response (my summary) is that there will be some sort of ask in the future and it will be communicated via the typical FI channels - Future
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 am Like I said, I read the book. He is a fraud.

We all know what FIRE means, and this guy is NOT financially independent, and he is NOT retired.

He is an incredible mooch, and a bad person.

I'll share a story in the book that I wrote about elsewhere in this forum. Scott and his wife were staying with his parents for a while. Mooching big time. Free rent, free food, free childcare, and other free perks. One morning Scott was eating his free breakfast with his wife in his parents kitchen. He wrote, (not exact quote) "I wanted to have a private conversation with my wife but I could not because my parents were there. I RESENTED THEM BEING THERE."

Are you kidding me? It's their house!

There are many more stories like this one in the book. And he was constantly complaining about the documentary film crew being around all the time, interfering with his privacy.

Glad that I didn't pay for the book (borrowed from library).
Of course he isn't FI, this is year one of his journey, you have to start somewhere.
Ob81
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Ob81 »

DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
This is why I have opted to catch this 'film' when it is available elsewhere. This film is not catching on, and the production team were letting out frustration stating that they thought the FIRE community would have supported the film more. Its a cash grab for a non-FIRE-minded team. No need for a movie about not spending all of your money.
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:07 pm
DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
This is why I have opted to catch this 'film' when it is available elsewhere. This film is not catching on, and the production team were letting out frustration stating that they thought the FIRE community would have supported the film more. Its a cash grab for a non-FIRE-minded team. No need for a movie about not spending all of your money.
I'd like to know more about these statements. Is this second hand information? first hand experience? etc?
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4nursebee
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by 4nursebee »

It is interesting (NOT!) all these folks that give up on consumerism and then turn around to develop products for others to consume.
Pale Blue Dot
Ob81
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Ob81 »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:17 pm
Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:07 pm
DanMahowny wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:52 am I read the book. I really dislike the author. He is a complete fraud.
This is why I have opted to catch this 'film' when it is available elsewhere. This film is not catching on, and the production team were letting out frustration stating that they thought the FIRE community would have supported the film more. Its a cash grab for a non-FIRE-minded team. No need for a movie about not spending all of your money.
I'd like to know more about these statements. Is this second hand information? first hand experience? etc?
It was during the kickstarter push, and some of the creator comments there. It wasn't firsthand experience, and I only saw a screenshot of a reply from a creator. The question from a viewer was in reference to the long delay for the movie to be released in theaters. The reply was in reference to the project not being picked up fast enough, and referenced an expectation of the FIRE community supporting the project more. It was enough for me to make a decision personally, but not to campaign against the film. I quoted the previous commenter here because it was interesting to see another person consider the director a fraud.

Full disclosure; I am also in the camp of people who wonder why there is always a big push by bloggers to spread FIRE to others. There are genuine people who want to spread knowledge, and then there are the people that are "retired" and trying to increase audience for their "side-hustle".

I also believe that the bloggers truly don't explain the concept well, and leave out the part about needing a "side-hustle" once you lose your main source of income. Without that other source of income (your choice based on your FI status), you effectively have built yourself a life based on a strict yearly budget of $40-50k.
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:42 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:17 pm I'd like to know more about these statements. Is this second hand information? first hand experience? etc?
It was during the kickstarter push, and some of the creator comments there. It wasn't firsthand experience, and I only saw a screenshot of a reply from a creator. The question from a viewer was in reference to the long delay for the movie to be released in theaters. The reply was in reference to the project not being picked up fast enough, and referenced an expectation of the FIRE community supporting the project more. It was enough for me to make a decision personally, but not to campaign against the film. I quoted the previous commenter here because it was interesting to see another person consider the director a fraud.

Full disclosure; I am also in the camp of people who wonder why there is always a big push by bloggers to spread FIRE to others. There are genuine people who want to spread knowledge, and then there are the people that are "retired" and trying to increase audience for their "side-hustle".

I also believe that the bloggers truly don't explain the concept well, and leave out the part about needing a "side-hustle" once you lose your main source of income. Without that other source of income (your choice based on your FI status), you effectively have built yourself a life based on a strict yearly budget of $40-50k.
I do see the irony of getting paid to spread the FIRE. Be it a blog, movie, book, podcast, etc, etc etc. There are a few community members that donate significant amounts of any revenue earned.

I would argue you don't have to have a side hustle, if your 25x is enough for your spending, regardless if that is 40k a year or 100k a year, etc.

I can't do nothing for the rest of my life, so are you saying I shouldn't start a Financial Planning business? I plan to charge for my time. In a reasonable way, and give advice that I would give myself, family, etc. (Note, i plan to try to send people to resources like Bogleheads, but so many people don't want to do it themselves) In addition to "productive work", I also have other "volunteer efforts" that i spend my time on.
Ob81
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Ob81 »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:48 pm
Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:42 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:17 pm I'd like to know more about these statements. Is this second hand information? first hand experience? etc?
It was during the kickstarter push, and some of the creator comments there. It wasn't firsthand experience, and I only saw a screenshot of a reply from a creator. The question from a viewer was in reference to the long delay for the movie to be released in theaters. The reply was in reference to the project not being picked up fast enough, and referenced an expectation of the FIRE community supporting the project more. It was enough for me to make a decision personally, but not to campaign against the film. I quoted the previous commenter here because it was interesting to see another person consider the director a fraud.

Full disclosure; I am also in the camp of people who wonder why there is always a big push by bloggers to spread FIRE to others. There are genuine people who want to spread knowledge, and then there are the people that are "retired" and trying to increase audience for their "side-hustle".

I also believe that the bloggers truly don't explain the concept well, and leave out the part about needing a "side-hustle" once you lose your main source of income. Without that other source of income (your choice based on your FI status), you effectively have built yourself a life based on a strict yearly budget of $40-50k.
I do see the irony of getting paid to spread the FIRE. Be it a blog, movie, book, podcast, etc, etc etc. There are a few community members that donate significant amounts of any revenue earned.

I would argue you don't have to have a side hustle, if your 25x is enough for your spending, regardless if that is 40k a year or 100k a year, etc.

I can't do nothing for the rest of my life, so are you saying I shouldn't start a Financial Planning business? I plan to charge for my time. In a reasonable way, and give advice that I would give myself, family, etc. (Note, i plan to try to send people to resources like Bogleheads, but so many people don't want to do it themselves) In addition to "productive work", I also have other "volunteer efforts" that i spend my time on.
If you listen to the ChooseFI podcast, take another listen to any episode that features Big-ERN. He explains fully why the 25x is not always successful. He is long-winded, but I take his input on this as the reason to have a source of income, no matter what it is. Truly retiring early is not the message. Putting yourself in a position to do what you want to do (FI) is the message. Google "milestones of FI" or something similar. You will stumble on several progression charts from bloggers that realized that they needed a "side-hustle", because once they reached their FI number, they would be stuck with that yearly budget, which is typically around $40k ($1mil net worth).

Based on the above, I highly support you or anyone else starting a financial planning business. We need more people, that are genuinley savvy with money, out and about helping others get their lives in shape. Just don't tell us that you are retired while you are running this business.
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by barnaclebob »

onourway wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:30 am
azanon wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 am Looks like the movie will hit on a thought I've had from the beginning; I came from a very poor town in eastern Arkansas, where even today, the per capita household income is ~ 18K/year. So from my POV, I saw a great many people living on not a lot of money per year all growing up, but I'll tell you one thing about that - I didn't and still don't envy any of them and, if anything, it was an incentive to not be like that.

So for me it's a hard sell to actually strive to be, more-or-less, just like them - they don't live on much and most of them don't work either so I don't see much of a difference tbh. And to actually get a degree, and a 6-figure job only to voluntarily be just like someone from my hometown - crazy!

Now if you're income is so high, that you can save half of it, and still live on ~ 75K/year or more (I picked that figure cause I saw a study where happiness plateaued around there) in early retirement, then I'm all for that. Sign me up.
I think that choosing to live a simple life on a small amount of income generated from your investments while working part time or not at all is a very different experience than living on that same amount of money while working full time and having no savings.
It is easier living poor when you are rich. I think azanon was saying that many of the people in his community were on disability or some sort of govt assistance and didn't work anyway so there are some similarities there.
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:04 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:48 pm
Ob81 wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:42 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:17 pm I'd like to know more about these statements. Is this second hand information? first hand experience? etc?
It was during the kickstarter push, and some of the creator comments there. It wasn't firsthand experience, and I only saw a screenshot of a reply from a creator. The question from a viewer was in reference to the long delay for the movie to be released in theaters. The reply was in reference to the project not being picked up fast enough, and referenced an expectation of the FIRE community supporting the project more. It was enough for me to make a decision personally, but not to campaign against the film. I quoted the previous commenter here because it was interesting to see another person consider the director a fraud.

Full disclosure; I am also in the camp of people who wonder why there is always a big push by bloggers to spread FIRE to others. There are genuine people who want to spread knowledge, and then there are the people that are "retired" and trying to increase audience for their "side-hustle".

I also believe that the bloggers truly don't explain the concept well, and leave out the part about needing a "side-hustle" once you lose your main source of income. Without that other source of income (your choice based on your FI status), you effectively have built yourself a life based on a strict yearly budget of $40-50k.
I do see the irony of getting paid to spread the FIRE. Be it a blog, movie, book, podcast, etc, etc etc. There are a few community members that donate significant amounts of any revenue earned.

I would argue you don't have to have a side hustle, if your 25x is enough for your spending, regardless if that is 40k a year or 100k a year, etc.

I can't do nothing for the rest of my life, so are you saying I shouldn't start a Financial Planning business? I plan to charge for my time. In a reasonable way, and give advice that I would give myself, family, etc. (Note, i plan to try to send people to resources like Bogleheads, but so many people don't want to do it themselves) In addition to "productive work", I also have other "volunteer efforts" that i spend my time on.
If you listen to the ChooseFI podcast, take another listen to any episode that features Big-ERN. He explains fully why the 25x is not always successful. He is long-winded, but I take his input on this as the reason to have a source of income, no matter what it is. Truly retiring early is not the message. Putting yourself in a position to do what you want to do (FI) is the message. Google "milestones of FI" or something similar. You will stumble on several progression charts from bloggers that realized that they needed a "side-hustle", because once they reached their FI number, they would be stuck with that yearly budget, which is typically around $40k ($1mil net worth).

Based on the above, I highly support you or anyone else starting a financial planning business. We need more people, that are genuinley savvy with money, out and about helping others get their lives in shape. Just don't tell us that you are retired while you are running this business.
I agree if someone sets their FI number at a level that isn't sustainable, then yes, they need side income. if 40k/1million isn't a great life they might be "BaristaFI" and work part-time for health care but not FI.

I agree 25x isn't always successful. My CFP education agrees with that.. however 25x does have a significantly high success rate. also, it really depends on returns and sequence of returns in the early years. Also, the study was based on 30-year retirement not 60, so there is risk at 25x.

I won't be retired = "having left one's job and ceased to work."
but retired = "withdraw to or from a particular place." and that particular place being "full-time wage slave employment".

I don't plan to hold myself out as retired early.
schooner
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by schooner »

Haven't seen it, don't intend to see it, but an apt title. The whole FIRE movement depends on two things:

1) Healthy stock market returns
2) Low inflation

Could you imagine turning 40 years old in 1969 and trying to FIRE? Yikes. Haven't run the numbers but that would have been a wild ride. At least you would have had time for the gas line :oops:
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

schooner wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:32 pm Haven't seen it, don't intend to see it, but an apt title. The whole FIRE movement depends on two things:

1) Healthy stock market returns
2) Low inflation

Could you imagine turning 40 years old in 1969 and trying to FIRE? Yikes. Haven't run the numbers but that would have been a wild ride. At least you would have had time for the gas line :oops:
Looks like Kitces answered your question yesterday

https://www.kitces.com/blog/the-problem ... ing-rules/
schooner
Posts: 388
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Re: Has anyone seen the documentary "Playing with FIRE?"

Post by schooner »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:41 pm
schooner wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:32 pm Haven't seen it, don't intend to see it, but an apt title. The whole FIRE movement depends on two things:

1) Healthy stock market returns
2) Low inflation

Could you imagine turning 40 years old in 1969 and trying to FIRE? Yikes. Haven't run the numbers but that would have been a wild ride. At least you would have had time for the gas line :oops:
Looks like Kitces answered your question yesterday

https://www.kitces.com/blog/the-problem ... ing-rules/
Interesting. There is a big difference between back-testing it and living through it. Life happens - illnesses, accidents - at the worst possible time.

We have experienced a 10+ year bull market WITH low inflation. Bad idea to benchmark your expectations on the last 10 years.
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