New Camry Questions

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w33ps
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by w33ps » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:50 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:15 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:57 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:47 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:34 pm
jebmke wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:33 am

I agree; the chance that the rear of your car is not where you think it is is zero.
Pretty over confident attitude. You might be distracted, look away for one milisecond while a car moves behind you, someone else might be driving improperly, or any other reason. A safety aid with auditory alerts and just flashes to become more visible only helps you. 80% of drivers think they are above average. Don't be those guys.
If you're not paying attention while changing lanes you deserve to get hit. If you're paying attention to driving, there should be an extremely low potential for a driver next to you swerving in your lane because you should be monitoring your speed and not driving with a car next to you...speed up or slow down so there's a clear lane to your side.

The blind spot monitors beep so much with false alarms most people don't even act anyway when they hear it. Put the phone down and check your mirrors.
You're saying you're capable of watching all parts of the car and all mirrors simultaneously. No matter how careful you are, you are only human and will have gaps in your attention or visibility. Safety aids are not meant to replace, but augment good driving habits. I don't know why so many people are opposed to technology that reduces the chance of accidents in real life.
The problem is over reliance on the blind spot monitor. The people who are most likely to get it are the ones who think they no longer have to check the mirrors anymore because they can rely on the blind spot monitor 100%. They're the ones who are going to clip a motorcyclist splitting lanes and kill them. People are more ignorant than you think, I know doctors who think they can read books and fill out paper work while their Tesla is on autopilot. Relying on systems that are meant as aids to driving not replacements for proper driving will negate any benefit they'd have in the hands of a capable, well trained and aware driver. That pretty much describes the majority of people on the road in America. Simply look at how many morons sit in the left lane without passing for an example of how poorly behaved and unskilled our drivers are.
Your doctor friends will be able to read books and fill out paper work while their Tesla is on Full Self-Driving Mode, which is coming sooner than a lot of people think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlThdr3O5Qo

https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self ... lity-trial

decapod10
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by decapod10 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:57 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:47 pm
[

The blind spot monitors beep so much with false alarms most people don't even act anyway when they hear it.
This has not been my experience with blind spot monitors.

Braking monitors and Lane Keeping Monitors, yes they have false alarms all the time. I turn off the Lane Keeping Monitors and pretty much ignore the Braking Monitor.

I have not found that the blind spot monitors are particularly intrusive, nor do they give false information (again, at least based on the Honda version in the Odyssey).

MotoTrojan
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by MotoTrojan » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Maybe it’s habit but I get annoyed pulling out a key when a rental isn’t keyless every/start. My SO has scar with keyless start but you must use key to unlock the door... that’s even worse.

H-Town
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by H-Town » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:11 pm

The dangerous thing is that people get used to those technologies and cannot drive safely without them. From my experience, technologies and computers will break down at some point. I just hope that you can still drive safely when it happens.

For me personally, if those technologies come with the car and I don't have to pay extra for it, then why not? But I would not pay extra for those options because I don't need them.

ShoogyBee
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by ShoogyBee » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:52 pm

As a couple others have mentioned here, I would consider that the LE may ride more smoothly. The SE will have sportier suspension tuning. I don't know what the roads are like in SoCal, but they are terrible here in SE Wisconsin. I bought a CPO 2010 Camry in 2013 and I opted for an LE primarily due to its 16-inch wheels and tires with a taller sidewall, which lend themselves to smoother ride on rough roads. The 2010 SE at that time had 17-inch wheels, lower-profile tires, and a stiffer suspension.

...

A440
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by A440 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:17 am

I'm adding to this thread... :happy
Anyone own a new XSE V6? I like the two-tone color option and red interior. How has your experience been with the V6 so far? I'm coming from a V6 engine, so the 301 hp sounds like it would be fun to drive.
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.

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whodidntante
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:37 am

If I bought a new camry, I would get the lowest cost configuration available. You're buying a very simple design from a company that doesn't mind clinging to what worked last time, so don't hang ornaments on it.

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RootSki
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by RootSki » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:53 am

It’s 2019, not 1999. I would not buy a new car that needed a key to start and did not have blind spot warnings.

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TexasPE
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by TexasPE » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am

mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)

squirm
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by squirm » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:55 am

How much do you drive? We drive 35k/yr so the safety features come in handy especially with all the nuts on the freeways here. I want a button that says zap and it removes all the other cars from the freeway.
If you don't drive much and others drivers behave maybe it's not worth it.

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whodidntante
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:59 am

TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
Keep a spare battery in the glove box. Lithium batteries have a long shelf life. Note: some cars need two batteries.

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sk2101
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by sk2101 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:01 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:30 am
Blind spot monitoring is completely useless if you adjust your mirrors properly. Most Americans are not taught the proper way to adjust mirrors...for some reason they think you should see the rear of the car. This is not correct.

AAA has a guide that describes how to properly set mirrors:
https://seniordriving.aaa.com/improve-y ... r-mirrors/

Car and driver also has a nice visual describing it
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... ind-spots/

If you follow these guides there will be no blind spot and you don’t need blind spot monitoring which may miss smaller objects like motorcycles.
agree 100%. people dont know how to use their mirrors and it scares the heck out of me the overreliance on these driver aids.

squirm
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by squirm » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:16 am

Our Honda's have Lane watch, which works great for the suicidal mortalcyclist. They split lanes doing 60 while traffic is doing 20.

The mirrors work best but Lane watch gives you one last quick peak down the center of the lane. Blind spot can't do anything like that.

Whakamole
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Whakamole » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:54 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:30 am
Blind spot monitoring is completely useless if you adjust your mirrors properly. Most Americans are not taught the proper way to adjust mirrors...for some reason they think you should see the rear of the car. This is not correct.

AAA has a guide that describes how to properly set mirrors:
https://seniordriving.aaa.com/improve-y ... r-mirrors/

Car and driver also has a nice visual describing it
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... ind-spots/

If you follow these guides there will be no blind spot and you don’t need blind spot monitoring which may miss smaller objects like motorcycles.
I used technique this in my last few cars (actually the one from Car Talk which is the same.) I will call BS on there being no blind spots, especially for smaller objects like motorcycles or very small cars (Smart and the like.) Blind spot visibility is greatly reduced by not having your car visible in the driver/passenger side mirror, but it's not zero.

I test drove a Subaru and was impressed with the quality of the blind spot monitoring.

JediMisty
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by JediMisty » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:59 am

TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
I've wondered about this. What if you're away from home and this happens? Can you replace the battery easily? Do you carry one with you at all times?

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:07 am

anonenigma wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:54 pm
Getting ready to replace my 2000 Camry with a 2019 Camry SE. My wife prefers the look of the SE over the LE, and beyond the aesthetics (she cares, me not so much), the small price difference ($1K) buys a tire pressure monitor, fake leather (Softex) upholstery that might be longer lasting/easier to keep clean than the fabric on the LE, and a leather-wrapped steering wheel.

The outstanding question is whether to spend an additional $1,200 on a package that includes the blind spot detector and smartkey/push button start. The money isn't significant to me, but are these worthwhile additions? I don't want to do anything that will require monthly charges at the end of a trial period - assume smartkey won't?

Should I care about wheel locks? Carpet floor and trunk mats (I'm in So. Cal so don't need all-weather)? Any other options of any value?

If you're keeping cars 20 years and are fretting over a $1,200 "extra" options that you yourself admit is not significant to you.... IDK dude.

I think I'd get along well with most of this community in a social setting, but it gets to a point where people are so frugal, they're cheap. I know people IRL that are like this, and it's sad. If you were asking whether or not it was worth an extra $10k, that's one thing... but $1200 over potentially 240 months of ownership....

I'll put it to you this way, I won't buy a car in 2019 without push button start. It's rather convenient to not have to shuffle with a key.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:09 am

TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).
Then replace the battery every 6 months to a year for peace of mind. The Toyota keyless FOB batteries are like maybe $1-2 for Panansonic (or like brand name ones) on amazon. Maybe $2.50 at the most.

If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned that you were a PE in another thread and that makes sense based upon your username. I am sure you have seen all sorts of stuff that seems to work fine, but has to undergo routine maintenance and/or replace what would seemingly be perfectly good working parts.
Last edited by Helo80 on Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:12 am

whodidntante wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:59 am
Keep a spare battery in the glove box. Lithium batteries have a long shelf life. Note: some cars need two batteries.
That seems like an equally valid solution as well.

I think that it was on this forum that I said the lithium ion USB jump starters are worth every penny. You use it once, it's worth the original cost.

"But I have AAA or free jump starts with my insurer!!"

Yeah, IDK about you, but car batteries are intelligent forms of life and fail at the most inconvenient times and hence waiting potentially 15 mins to an hour for a guy to show up is not worth it IMHO. Oh, you will get help, but enjoy the wait.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:18 am

mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
You know lock tumblers and ignition tumblers fail, right? I take it that you have not had to pay for the part and labor on a car.

bikechuck
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by bikechuck » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:21 am

anonenigma wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:54 pm
Getting ready to replace my 2000 Camry with a 2019 Camry SE. My wife prefers the look of the SE over the LE, and beyond the aesthetics (she cares, me not so much), the small price difference ($1K) buys a tire pressure monitor, fake leather (Softex) upholstery that might be longer lasting/easier to keep clean than the fabric on the LE, and a leather-wrapped steering wheel.
I have a car with fake leather upholstery, not sure if it is softex. I learned that both my wife and I much prefer cloth seats and we will try to get cloth seats when we purchase future vehicles. Like many things I understand that this comes down to personal preference and sometimes you have to take A if you want B.

Whakamole
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Whakamole » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:26 am

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:12 am
whodidntante wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:59 am
Keep a spare battery in the glove box. Lithium batteries have a long shelf life. Note: some cars need two batteries.
That seems like an equally valid solution as well.

I think that it was on this forum that I said the lithium ion USB jump starters are worth every penny. You use it once, it's worth the original cost.

"But I have AAA or free jump starts with my insurer!!"

Yeah, IDK about you, but car batteries are intelligent forms of life and fail at the most inconvenient times and hence waiting potentially 15 mins to an hour for a guy to show up is not worth it IMHO. Oh, you will get help, but enjoy the wait.
Agreed 100%, I bought one of those USB jump starters at Costco. Easily worth the one time I needed it - didn't need to wait an hour for someone to show up (which may be on the low side), or rely on the kindness of strangers with jumper cables. Also you can hook up the battery no matter how your car is parked.

squirm
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by squirm » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:29 am

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:07 am
anonenigma wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:54 pm
Getting ready to replace my 2000 Camry with a 2019 Camry SE. My wife prefers the look of the SE over the LE, and beyond the aesthetics (she cares, me not so much), the small price difference ($1K) buys a tire pressure monitor, fake leather (Softex) upholstery that might be longer lasting/easier to keep clean than the fabric on the LE, and a leather-wrapped steering wheel.

The outstanding question is whether to spend an additional $1,200 on a package that includes the blind spot detector and smartkey/push button start. The money isn't significant to me, but are these worthwhile additions? I don't want to do anything that will require monthly charges at the end of a trial period - assume smartkey won't?

Should I care about wheel locks? Carpet floor and trunk mats (I'm in So. Cal so don't need all-weather)? Any other options of any value?

If you're keeping cars 20 years and are fretting over a $1,200 "extra" options that you yourself admit is not significant to you.... IDK dude.

I think I'd get along well with most of this community in a social setting, but it gets to a point where people are so frugal, they're cheap. I know people IRL that are like this, and it's sad. If you were asking whether or not it was worth an extra $10k, that's one thing... but $1200 over potentially 240 months of ownership....

I'll put it to you this way, I won't buy a car in 2019 without push button start. It's rather convenient to not have to shuffle with a key.
Good post. I also think some people just like to argue, not saying that's the ops intention though. But if you ask what type of motor oil to use, omg, look out!

Dottie57
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:35 pm

decapod10 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:59 am
anonenigma wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:54 pm
Getting ready to replace my 2000 Camry with a 2019 Camry SE. My wife prefers the look of the SE over the LE, and beyond the aesthetics (she cares, me not so much), the small price difference ($1K) buys a tire pressure monitor, fake leather (Softex) upholstery that might be longer lasting/easier to keep clean than the fabric on the LE, and a leather-wrapped steering wheel.

The outstanding question is whether to spend an additional $1,200 on a package that includes the blind spot detector and smartkey/push button start. The money isn't significant to me, but are these worthwhile additions? I don't want to do anything that will require monthly charges at the end of a trial period - assume smartkey won't?

Should I care about wheel locks? Carpet floor and trunk mats (I'm in So. Cal so don't need all-weather)? Any other options of any value?
I personally like the blind spot detector and smart key ignition. There shouldn’t be any monthly charge for it.

I also personally like parking sensors and keyless entry.

I would say most people probably would disagree with me though.

Edit: forgot to mention, I have Honda rather than Toyota, But I imagine the systems are similar
I have 2018 Camry. I love the Blind Spot Monitor and the keyless ignition.

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anonenigma
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by anonenigma » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:18 pm

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:07 am
anonenigma wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:54 pm
Getting ready to replace my 2000 Camry with a 2019 Camry SE. My wife prefers the look of the SE over the LE, and beyond the aesthetics (she cares, me not so much), the small price difference ($1K) buys a tire pressure monitor, fake leather (Softex) upholstery that might be longer lasting/easier to keep clean than the fabric on the LE, and a leather-wrapped steering wheel.

The outstanding question is whether to spend an additional $1,200 on a package that includes the blind spot detector and smartkey/push button start. The money isn't significant to me, but are these worthwhile additions? I don't want to do anything that will require monthly charges at the end of a trial period - assume smartkey won't?

Should I care about wheel locks? Carpet floor and trunk mats (I'm in So. Cal so don't need all-weather)? Any other options of any value?

If you're keeping cars 20 years and are fretting over a $1,200 "extra" options that you yourself admit is not significant to you.... IDK dude.

I think I'd get along well with most of this community in a social setting, but it gets to a point where people are so frugal, they're cheap. I know people IRL that are like this, and it's sad. If you were asking whether or not it was worth an extra $10k, that's one thing... but $1200 over potentially 240 months of ownership....

I'll put it to you this way, I won't buy a car in 2019 without push button start. It's rather convenient to not have to shuffle with a key.
The question wasn't about the money - it was about the value of the options. I gather that opinion is split on the value of the blindspot monitor and that there's a downside on the push button start when the battery eventually dies. I didn't know about that - do now. With Toyota, one can't add one without the other.

Glad you enjoyed misinterpreting my question.
Last edited by anonenigma on Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

H-Town
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by H-Town » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:42 pm

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:07 am
If you're keeping cars 20 years and are fretting over a $1,200 "extra" options that you yourself admit is not significant to you.... IDK dude.

I think I'd get along well with most of this community in a social setting, but it gets to a point where people are so frugal, they're cheap. I know people IRL that are like this, and it's sad. If you were asking whether or not it was worth an extra $10k, that's one thing... but $1200 over potentially 240 months of ownership....

I'll put it to you this way, I won't buy a car in 2019 without push button start. It's rather convenient to not have to shuffle with a key.
Do you keep your car for 20 years? :mrgreen: yeah that's what I thought...

If someone keeps their car for 20 years or more, he or she shouldn't use that excuse to add on unnecessary options. Both push button start and blind spot light are useless features. I'd rather spend $1,200 on something else from which I can actually get value.

Momus
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Momus » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:54 pm

I'd pay $2k for leather (easy cleaning), power driver seat (with adjustable lumbar support), push to start button, digital auto climate control, and heated side mirror. Can't live without them. Cheap price to pay for 10 yrs of convenience.
Last edited by Momus on Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beehave
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Beehave » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:55 pm

My two cents based on owning a 2015 Camry LE and a 2015 Camry XLE hybrid.

The softex "leather" is nice, but the passenger's seat in the XLE has 2 nicks in it that occurred early (within warranty period) I can't explain, which Toyota refused to fix, and which reveal white material under one micrometer (or whatever) of fake leather veneer. For durability I'd stick with the fabric seat covering.

The blind spot monitor and rear-back up cross traffic warning are worth their weight in gold. For me they are must haves if I ever buy another vehicle. The new Camrys are even lower than what I have, and in most parking spaces you are hemmed in by SUVs and can't see anything approaching from the sides. Backing out is a pleasure with the rear-alert and it's a peril without it.

My experience with the stiffer SE-type suspension versus the softer is that the stiff suspension is uncomfortable - - especially for the passenger.

I have locks on the wheels and to me they are of zero value. They came with the cars.

I had severe trouble with sound quality of the "upgraded" JBL Green Edge system on the XLE hybrid. I gave Toyota hell about it. Eventually they did what I believe was a remote download that fixed some idiotic thing being done at the factory that was making music sound like it was coming out of a 1957 hand-held transistor radio. Now it's pretty good, but I'm dreading the possibility that the next fix or upgrade will revert the sound back to bass-less tin. Note: even with the fix, the equalizer will shift sound left and right and front and back, but will do absolutely nothing to increase or decrease bass or treble or midrange sound. And I mean nothing.

If it were a choice of an SE with blind-spot and rear cross, versus an LE without these features, I'd go with the SE - - - - safety first. If the LE had the same safety equipment I'd go with the LE (I thought Toyota included those features as standard anyway now - - but maybe not). For what it's worth, I got the XLE because at that time only the XLE (and XSE) had adaptive cruise and lane departure functionality asavailable features. It ends up, for me, that the blind side monitor and rear cross traffic functions are much, much more valuable.

Hope this is helpful. Best wishes.

Edited to add: I detest the push button start. When it works it's great. However, I really dislike the battery-reliant aspect of the keyfob. And I really, really dislike the push-button function which periodically leaves you unsure of whether the vehicle is on, off, or in accessory mode. This uncertainty can occur both on starting the vehicle and on shutting it down.

ScooterBob
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by ScooterBob » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:15 pm

I have a 2014 LE. Get the LE, forget all the useless "fake safety" equipment (its a convenience- not safety) and keep the car for 15-20 years...the cloth will hold up extremely well. I know the new Camry has a bunch of the "safety" stuff included but don't rely on it. Just use the car as you would have without all that stuff. I'm actually kicking around the idea of adding a 2019 to the 2014. It will definitely be another LE. My current car (Nissan Sentra) that it would replace is 17+ years old so I like to keep my cars going. I NEVER fall for all the latest marketing noise. I worked in marketing for 30+ years and I know how this all works....

Bob

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:58 pm

anonenigma wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:18 pm

The question wasn't about the money - it was about the value of the options. I gather that opinion is split on the value of the blindspot monitor and that there's a downside on the push button start when the battery eventually dies. I didn't know about that - do now. With Toyota, one can't add one without the other.

Glad you enjoyed misinterpreting my question.

I appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately, this forum has a poor reputation in some parts of the internet for being, "I make $400k a year. My home is paid for and my retirement and brokerage accounts have assets of $7.5 million. Can I afford a 2013 base Honda Accord?"

The Camry is a fine car. Maybe you don't want all of the accouterments, but if you're going to driving this car for 20 years as well, IMHO, $1200 is well worth every penny.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:06 pm

H-Town wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:42 pm
Do you keep your car for 20 years? :mrgreen: yeah that's what I thought...
Nope.... I have a 10 year old car now with 100,000 miles and is one that BHs would consider "very practical", and I'm ready to light the damn thing on fire.
H-Town wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:42 pm
If someone keeps their car for 20 years or more, he or she shouldn't use that excuse to add on unnecessary options. Both push button start and blind spot light are useless features. I'd rather spend $1,200 on something else from which I can actually get value.
They're useless features in your perception of value and what's important to you. On PF forums, you can pick up on subtle and sometimes overt trains of thought that spending any money beyond what is absolutely necessary to get from Point A to Point B is a mortal sin and literally writing a check to Satan. And then, you have normal folks that buy cars, drive them 5-10 years, and then repeat.

Personally, I'd go for the safety features because that's the one constant you can control.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:15 pm

ScooterBob wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:15 pm
I have a 2014 LE. Get the LE, forget all the useless "fake safety" equipment (its a convenience- not safety) and keep the car for 15-20 years...the cloth will hold up extremely well. I know the new Camry has a bunch of the "safety" stuff included but don't rely on it. Just use the car as you would have without all that stuff. I'm actually kicking around the idea of adding a 2019 to the 2014. It will definitely be another LE. My current car (Nissan Sentra) that it would replace is 17+ years old so I like to keep my cars going. I NEVER fall for all the latest marketing noise. I worked in marketing for 30+ years and I know how this all works....

I can more appreciate your marketing comments on the driver assistance safety technology. However, if you're arguing against the actual structural engineering progress that has been made over the last two decades... you're dead wrong. Cars are much better built today than they were ten years ago in terms of their ability to handle collisions. That's not to say that a 2010 car is unsafe in an accident, but the makers continue to improve.

I get it that some people hate spending any more money than absolutely necessary on vehicles... but I would hope that the one constant whether you're driving a 2020 Mercedes S-Class or a 2000 Toyota Camry is YOU --- the driver (as well as the people that are driving around you).

I take the position that safety is paramount and you might as well protect yourself as you reasonably can.

Momus
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Momus » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:34 pm

It's a big mistake to not have push button to start in 2019. Rear camera is standard equipment in 2019. 5 yrs later, you might exclude half of your buyers by not getting one. I personally will NOT buy a car without one. Wasting 3-5 seconds to open door and start a car, no thanks.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:44 pm

squirm wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:29 am
Good post. I also think some people just like to argue, not saying that's the ops intention though. But if you ask what type of motor oil to use, omg, look out!
Car discussion on PF forums is always a hot-button issue. There are several schools of thought on car ownership, and we all live in different places.

The funny thing is that I would venture to guess that for the large majority of readers of this comment, a $500 car payment, adjusted for inflation, for the perpetuity of everyones life here would make minimal to no material difference in our finances or retirements.

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TexasPE
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by TexasPE » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 pm

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:09 am
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).
Then replace the battery every 6 months to a year for peace of mind. The Toyota keyless FOB batteries are like maybe $1-2 for Panansonic (or like brand name ones) on amazon. Maybe $2.50 at the most.
The PE in me tells me this makes perfect sense ONCE YOU KNOW THE BATTERY LIFE (failure rate). This is our first push-button start vehicle. Fob batteries for our other vehicles with conventional keys and remote lock/ unlock routinely lasted 6-8 years, and the car could still be started with a dead fob. I made the original post so that others might avoid being stranded without a way to start their vehicle.

Failure and consequence of failure data is needed to determine a reasonable replacement interval. Anybody still do 3,000 mile oil changes to make the quicklube folks happy, rather than following the manufacturer's recommendations?
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:46 pm

Momus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:34 pm
It's a big mistake to not have push button to start in 2019. Rear camera is standard equipment in 2019. 5 yrs later, you might exclude half of your buyers by not getting one. I personally will NOT buy a car without one. Wasting 3-5 seconds to open door and start a car, no thanks.
I think rear cameras are a requirement by NHTSA for MY2022 and beyond, but I think you'd have trouble finding a model from any manufacturer that does not have it standard.

7eight9
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by 7eight9 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:51 pm

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:46 pm
Momus wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:34 pm
It's a big mistake to not have push button to start in 2019. Rear camera is standard equipment in 2019. 5 yrs later, you might exclude half of your buyers by not getting one. I personally will NOT buy a car without one. Wasting 3-5 seconds to open door and start a car, no thanks.
I think rear cameras are a requirement by NHTSA for MY2022 and beyond, but I think you'd have trouble finding a model from any manufacturer that does not have it standard.
New cars sold in the U.S. must have backup cameras to help drivers avoid accidents under a federal regulation that took effect Wednesday.

Read more at USA Today - May 2, 2018 --- https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... 572079002/
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:54 pm

TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 pm
The PE in me tells me this makes perfect sense ONCE YOU KNOW THE BATTERY LIFE (failure rate). This is our first push-button start vehicle. Fob batteries for our other vehicles with conventional keys and remote lock/ unlock routinely lasted 6-8 years, and the car could still be started with a dead fob. I made the original post so that others might avoid being stranded without a way to start their vehicle.
I don't think I've ever had a CR2032 battery last that long unless it's for a Motherboard.
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 pm
Failure and consequence of failure data is needed to determine a reasonable replacement interval. Anybody still do 3,000 mile oil changes to make the quicklube folks happy, rather than following the manufacturer's recommendations?
Engines are far better built today than they were even a decade ago. Lubricants are far superior to what was produced in yesteryears.

Personally, I have had to pay for an ignition tumbler and labor to install it.

The days of your manual keys are numbered, friend. It's probably been at least a decade, maybe even two decades or more, since you could buy a new vehicle with manual roll-up windows. Even though NHTSA does not mandate rear backup cameras until MY2019, good luck finding a new car without it. Right now, push button start is much like automatic windows and rear backup cameras were five to 10+ years ago... stuff they could get away with as a premium feature.

EDIT: I was corrected on the year rear-backup cameras went into effect... But I think every maker was basically including them as standard on every model anyways. You would have been hard pressed to find a new car without one in 2018 or 2017 unless you went barebones basic.
Last edited by Helo80 on Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:56 pm

7eight9 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:51 pm
New cars sold in the U.S. must have backup cameras to help drivers avoid accidents under a federal regulation that took effect Wednesday.

Read more at USA Today - May 2, 2018 --- https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/ca ... 572079002/
My mistake.... Automatic Emergency Braking is coming in 2022

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nh ... cement-aeb

7eight9
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by 7eight9 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:06 pm

Helo80 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:54 pm
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 pm
The PE in me tells me this makes perfect sense ONCE YOU KNOW THE BATTERY LIFE (failure rate). This is our first push-button start vehicle. Fob batteries for our other vehicles with conventional keys and remote lock/ unlock routinely lasted 6-8 years, and the car could still be started with a dead fob. I made the original post so that others might avoid being stranded without a way to start their vehicle.
I don't think I've ever had a CR2032 battery last that long unless it's for a Motherboard.
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:45 pm
Failure and consequence of failure data is needed to determine a reasonable replacement interval. Anybody still do 3,000 mile oil changes to make the quicklube folks happy, rather than following the manufacturer's recommendations?
Engines are far better built today than they were even a decade ago. Lubricants are far superior to what was produced in yesteryears.

Personally, I have had to pay for an ignition tumbler and labor to install it.

The days of your manual keys are numbered, friend. It's probably been at least a decade, maybe even two decades or more, since you could buy a new vehicle with manual roll-up windows. Even though NHTSA does not mandate rear backup cameras until MY2019, good luck finding a new car without it. Right now, push button start is much like automatic windows and rear backup cameras were five to 10+ years ago... stuff they could get away with as a premium feature.

EDIT: I was corrected on the year rear-backup cameras went into effect... But I think every maker was basically including them as standard on every model anyways. You would have been hard pressed to find a new car without one in 2018 or 2017 unless you went barebones basic.
2019 Ford Fiesta S with manual windows (see page 9 of brochure) --- https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Br ... &year=2019
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

Helo80
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Helo80 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:51 pm

7eight9 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:06 pm

2019 Ford Fiesta S with manual windows (see page 9 of brochure) --- https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Br ... &year=2019
That's actually rather impressive.... Though, the Fiesta's transmission has been problematic to say the least. Though, the overriding point remains that "power locks/windows/etc" used to be an upgrade... now incredibly standard. A/C used to be an upgrade as well... now incredibly standard though I'm sure some maker somewhere has a model you can buy without A/C. You look at a car from the 50's... even something high-end like a Mercedes...stuff that was an upgrade at the time is now likely found in most entry level cars. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a car with manual windows, no A/C, no radio, and other stuff that used to be in optional upgrade packages.

15 years ago -- very few phones had cameras and those picture phones commanded premiums... (and could only store like 50 photos). Now, you'd be hard-pressed to find a phone without a front and rear facing camera.

My guess is that push-button start is going that direction as well. Once the novelty wears off and makers decide to just make it a standard feature, we won't see keys as we know it anymore.

z0r
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by z0r » Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:18 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:30 am
Blind spot monitoring is completely useless if you adjust your mirrors properly. Most Americans are not taught the proper way to adjust mirrors...for some reason they think you should see the rear of the car. This is not correct.

AAA has a guide that describes how to properly set mirrors:
https://seniordriving.aaa.com/improve-y ... r-mirrors/

Car and driver also has a nice visual describing it
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a ... ind-spots/

If you follow these guides there will be no blind spot and you don’t need blind spot monitoring which may miss smaller objects like motorcycles.
I've used this mirror adjustment style for over 10 years. I also recommend it.

You will still have significant blind spots when using this style: you can't see lane-splitting bikes when in thick traffic, and some near portion of adjacent bike lanes in any traffic. It's important to clear these blind spots at the appropriate times by moving your head left or right to extend the side mirror view back to include the side of your car.

It actually makes me nervous as a bike rider that the general public has been prodded into this style mirror adjustment without being warned about the new blind spots. Neither of your linked articles mentions it.

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hsmith
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by hsmith » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:28 pm

tea_pirate wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:21 am
... Push button start is mainly useful in winter so it likely has little value to you in SoCal. Not very effective for cooling down a hot car using the A/C. ...
I’m not familiar with what the Camry key fob can do, but my GMC Acadia’s key fob can also roll down all of the windows remotely. I find that to be a great feature for cooling off the vehicle after it has been sitting in the sun for awhile on a hot day.

random_walker
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by random_walker » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:31 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:11 am
The best option you can go for is to get an accord or Mazda 6 instead.

Both of those vehicles have better interior design, better interior quality, better ergonomics, better refinement, better suspensions, better performance, better handling, better exterior styling, less road noise. They’re so close to Toyota in reliability you’ll never notice the difference in that regard which is basically the only thing Toyota has a perceived advantage in (Toyota ranked #2 brand in consumer reports Mazda is 3)
According to US News, the 2019 Toyota Camry is the "Best Mid-Size Car for the Money":
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/bes ... -the-money

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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:43 am

mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.

As for blind spot monitors, consider whether installing convex mirrors ("blind spot mirrors") would do the trick. Wife and I had considered a car purchase for the blind spot monitoring, but I installed some convex mirrors on her car, and she said it was a "game-changer." I would know since I'm a truck driver. :)
Blind spot monitoring is a great option. Love keyless start. Had it for 13 years and worked well. I did have a car where the key broke in the ignition after 5 years - a Honda Civic. I was in a real pickle when that happened.

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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by RollTide31457 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:39 am

Camry’s have a front end alignment flaw. They tend to pull to the left.

lws
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by lws » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:30 am

Get the blind spot monitor with rear cross traffic alert. I could have avoided backing into someone if my Camry had one.
I will never again buy a vehicle without these two features. When I sold the Camry I bought a vehicle with these two features.

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El Greco
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by El Greco » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:27 pm

TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
FYI, if the battery dies in your CX-5 fob, you can still start the car by pushing the button with the fob, logo end toward the button. The system will activate by induction, even if the fob battery is dead.

Fire2030
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by Fire2030 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:56 pm

El Greco wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:27 pm
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
FYI, if the battery dies in your CX-5 fob, you can still start the car by pushing the button with the fob, logo end toward the button. The system will activate by induction, even if the fob battery is dead.
Same is true for Camry. You can hold the key to the button and start the car. It has happened to us once in 10 yrs of ownership :)

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LilyFleur
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by LilyFleur » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:39 pm

Fire2030 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:56 pm
El Greco wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:27 pm
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
FYI, if the battery dies in your CX-5 fob, you can still start the car by pushing the button with the fob, logo end toward the button. The system will activate by induction, even if the fob battery is dead.
Same is true for Camry. You can hold the key to the button and start the car. It has happened to us once in 10 yrs of ownership :)
I've driven a Camry and two Accords. There was a warning on the dash that the fob battery was getting low, but the fob still worked for at least a week. I always had the spare fob with a good battery in it, ready to go. Never had a problem with the push-button ignition.

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TexasPE
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Re: New Camry Questions

Post by TexasPE » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:34 am

Fire2030 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:56 pm
El Greco wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:27 pm
TexasPE wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:28 am
mokaThought wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:54 am
I don't trust the push-button start systems. There's nothing wrong with just a key.
A caveat on the push-button start - at least for the Mazda CX5. When the fob button battery dies (which ours do every two years), the car will not start. The spare key in the fob doesn't help - it will get you into the vehicle, but the push-button start doesn't function. Apparently the fob battery powers the security transmitter that validates the fob. (Don't ask how I found this out :oops: ).

I prefer the more "traditional" key with buttons for the door and trunk. One can still start the vehicle after manually unlocking the door.
FYI, if the battery dies in your CX-5 fob, you can still start the car by pushing the button with the fob, logo end toward the button. The system will activate by induction, even if the fob battery is dead.
Same is true for Camry. You can hold the key to the button and start the car. It has happened to us once in 10 yrs of ownership :)
Thanks - good to know! :happy My wife was in a rush, couldn't find her usual keys, and grabbed the spare fob, which hadn't been used in a while. I'll mention this to her.
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)

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