How to pay electrician

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Raydo
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How to pay electrician

Post by Raydo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm

I have hired an electrician and he has completed job without issue.

The electrician gave me a proposal with labor and material cost before work and there is no contract signed.

Now he gave me an invoice with $200 increase on material without good reason(I have talked to him)

Do I just pay whatever in proposal and hope that he would accept that.

Thanks.

daheld
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by daheld » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:22 pm

Have you questioned why there was a $200 increase? If there's a good reason, like the scope of the job unexpectedly changed and wound up costing more in materials than originally planned, I could potentially see being ok with paying more than the initial quote. Ideally this should've been communicated during the process of completing the job, though.

If none of the above apply, I'd pay what he originally quoted you.

Topic Author
Raydo
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Raydo » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:37 pm

It is one day job of installing 220 volt outlet and attic fan.
There is no communication at all during the job.

JimMolony
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by JimMolony » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:43 pm

I'd pay the original amount unless he came to me with a valid reason for the overage.

rkhusky
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by rkhusky » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:45 pm

If it wasn't a signed contract, then what you received was an estimate. Typically there is some variance allowed for estimates - perhaps 10%. Was it a fixed price job or time & materials?

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:56 pm

rkhusky wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:45 pm
If it wasn't a signed contract, then what you received was an estimate. Typically there is some variance allowed for estimates - perhaps 10%. Was it a fixed price job or time & materials?
Yep. Huge difference between "It will probably be around $500" and "I will do it for $500."

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Sandtrap
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:00 pm

Raydo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm
I have hired an electrician and he has completed job without issue.

The electrician gave me a proposal with labor and material cost before work and there is no contract signed.

Now he gave me an invoice with $200 increase on material without good reason(I have talked to him)

Do I just pay whatever in proposal and hope that he would accept that.

Thanks.
What is the total invoice??

You agreed on T & M
Just ask what the 200 was for and if it was for added material cost then pay it.
You may need him in the future.
J
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ddurrett896
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by ddurrett896 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:14 pm

In my state, the local DPOR would:
No contract? Fine
No license number? Fine
No timeline for job? Fine
Not estimate completion date? Fine

I’d tell him the above, the ask if he wants the original amount.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:20 pm

You like the guy? Are you plan on using him again? Negotiate and see if he will meet you in the middle - $100 increase instead of $200. If not, your call.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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dm200
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by dm200 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:31 pm

Raydo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm
I have hired an electrician and he has completed job without issue.
The electrician gave me a proposal with labor and material cost before work and there is no contract signed.
Now he gave me an invoice with $200 increase on material without good reason(I have talked to him)
Do I just pay whatever in proposal and hope that he would accept that.

Thanks.
What was the total bill, without the added $200?

Years ago, we needed an upgrade to our house's electrical capacity - as well as replacing fuses with circuit breakers. The most highly recommended electrician gave us the lowest cost to do the work. he greatly underestimated how hard the job was for his workers. In addition, they installed a larger capacity box than what was requested. We were billed for the original estimate amount - which I quickly paid in full.
Last edited by dm200 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

J295
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by J295 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:36 pm

Watts up with this?
Seems shocking.
I'd be amped up in this situation.
:happy

Seriously... your post states he gave you a proposal, that you asked about the higher charges, and after talking to him you are not satisfied with his explanation. Seems straightforward that you pay the proposal.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:36 pm

J295 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:36 pm
Watts up with this?
Seems shocking.
I'd be amped up in this situation.
:happy

Seriously... your post states he gave you a proposal, that you asked about the higher charges, and after talking to him you are not satisfied with his explanation. Seems straightforward that you pay the proposal.
Ground yourself! :wink:
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

carolinaman
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by carolinaman » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:50 am

There are often unforeseen complications that increase the cost of a project like this. I am unsure how material a cost overrun this is since you did not say how much the proposed cost was. At a minimum, this guy needs to give you a satisfactory explanatory for the increase. I would talk to him and explain that you will only pay the proposed cost unless he can justify the increase. That may be a basis for negotiation which is a preferable outcome than to have an open dispute.

renue74
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by renue74 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:08 am

I'm in the process of roughing in electrical on a gut job rental house I bought in Feb.

Just yesterday, I ran out of 12/2 wire for the kitchen home runs and 14/3 wire for the hard wired smoke detectors. After a trip to Lowes, I dropped $130 on wire. I didn't expect to buy more materials, but I had to do it to finish.

If it were an estimate, I'm sure he just guestimated the cost of the materials. It should only cost $300 for a fan, $10 for the 220v receptacle and 50 ft of 10/2 wire, plus $10 for the 30 amp dual pole circuit breaker.

But....when he go to the supply house the fan was more or whatever.

In realty, he should had texted you and said the materials were going to be more, but this never happens. Never. Materials are materials. Especially on something like this. And men are notorious for not being good communicators.

He should had given you a range of material costs and said that will surely fluctuate.

Pay and move on.

cherijoh
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by cherijoh » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:37 am

carolinaman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:50 am
There are often unforeseen complications that increase the cost of a project like this. I am unsure how material a cost overrun this is since you did not say how much the proposed cost was. At a minimum, this guy needs to give you a satisfactory explanatory for the increase. I would talk to him and explain that you will only pay the proposed cost unless he can justify the increase. That may be a basis for negotiation which is a preferable outcome than to have an open dispute.
+1

OP - did he split out labor and materials on the quote? How much of an increase was it on a percentage basis?

Topic Author
Raydo
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Raydo » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:04 am

Thanks for all the wisdom.

The total is $1600 for a 220v 50 amp outlet and attic fan. It is a written down proposal with labor and materials spelled out.

I have other estimates and this electrician has the highest estimate. I believe $1600 is a good price to pay instead of $1800.

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Nestegg_User
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Nestegg_User » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:14 am

you got an electrician to come out, bid, and actually show up and complete the work?
around here, it's hard to find ones that come out to bid on small jobs.... and they are booked out for months

I'd say, especially if you will need him in the future, and if he did the work on time and correctly, to bite the bullet and pay the increase (especially since you have no contract). {otherwise he will definitely overbid your next project.... if he shows up at all}

hudson
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by hudson » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:45 pm

Sometimes jobs take longer or are more difficult than anticipated. It only takes one hitch to take extra time or materials. I would want him to be reimbursed for his time and materials. I would not want him to lose money when working for me. I would want him to walk away happy. He sounds like a good electrician; he showed up sober and did an excellent job.

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greg24
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by greg24 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:50 pm

Now I can see why contractors are difficult to come out and bid. Even if they do a good job, they can't win.

Workinprogress
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Workinprogress » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:52 pm

My thought is that while it is always hard for me to get a bill for more than I expected, in this instance I would pay and move forward.

After reading here for a while, I imagine myself to be one of the least affluent and definitely the most miserly. This is a bill I would not hesitate to pay.

Reasoning...
Only about 13% over the expected, less than the tip for restaurant staff.
You have already lost sleep and well-being over the increase and the ongoing battle/conflict will be worse.
Good will is paid in one branch of the bank and withdrawn in another. This is not money lost, but good will deposited.

Be well.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Doom&Gloom » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:20 pm

hudson wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:45 pm
Sometimes jobs take longer or are more difficult than anticipated. It only takes one hitch to take extra time or materials. I would want him to be reimbursed for his time and materials. I would not want him to lose money when working for me. I would want him to walk away happy. He sounds like a good electrician; he showed up sober and did an excellent job.
+1 But it seems that ship might have already sailed. These guys are sometimes hard to find, and you never know when you might really need one.

DaftInvestor
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by DaftInvestor » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:21 pm

Raydo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm
without good reason(I have talked to him)
He didn't give you what you consider a "good reason" but he gave you some reason?
What was the reason he gave?
If estimate was 1600 - he now calculated out exact time and materials and you owe him 1800 that's 12.5% more than his estimate - doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If he gave me breakdown of parts and labor on invoice I'd simply pay it.

wilked
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by wilked » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:05 pm

My father in law in an electrician. I used to think electric work should be fairly cheap / easy...until I started doing work with him. Now I realize all the stuff that comes up that electricians have to deal with. Most of it relates to fishing / routing wire. A lot of it relates to them having to clean up bad wiring (once they see it they can't ignore it). A little of it relates to repair work from damage caused by the above (patching, etc).

It's reasonable to ask why the final bill is 15% higher than the estimate. If they can't show their material list and hours worked than I would challenge. If she/he can, then I would pay.

edit to add - a little devil's advocate here...you have had a few posts in this thread, maybe 4-5? And you don't communicate a lot of info in your posts. I am guessing there is a lack of communication between yourself and the electrician

michaeljc70
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:17 pm

Ask for receipts for the materials. Say you need them to add to the cost basis of your home :shock: .

Scrapr
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Scrapr » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:59 pm

Nestegg_User wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:14 am
you got an electrician to come out, bid, and actually show up and complete the work?
around here, it's hard to find ones that come out to bid on small jobs.... and they are booked out for months

I'd say, especially if you will need him in the future, and if he did the work on time and correctly, to bite the bullet and pay the increase (especially since you have no contract). {otherwise he will definitely overbid your next project.... if he shows up at all}
This exactly. It took us a year to get an electrician out to do some stuff. Took him several trips including attic work & crawl space work. Mrs scrapr kissed him when he came in the morning and baked cookies for him in the afternoon. It's goodwill. Pay him with a smile

jdb
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by jdb » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:53 pm

Every home owner needs a good plumber and a good electrician. Just like every car owner needs good mechanic. Took us years to find good plumber and good electrician. Gave up on good mechanic, bought Tesla vehicles which don’t need one. I would
pay the $200 without second thought. Good luck.

miamivice
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by miamivice » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:09 pm

Raydo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm
I have hired an electrician and he has completed job without issue.

The electrician gave me a proposal with labor and material cost before work and there is no contract signed.

Now he gave me an invoice with $200 increase on material without good reason(I have talked to him)

Do I just pay whatever in proposal and hope that he would accept that.

Thanks.
If you do not pay him what you owe him per the written contract, he may file a lien against your home and then you will have to pay off the lien (plus interest and maybe fees) when you sell the house.

toofache32
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by toofache32 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:13 pm

If he will not accept the lower fee, will you accept him back in your home to remove the attic fan and outlet?

retire2022
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by retire2022 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:17 pm

OP

The electrician could invoke a Mechanics Lien for failure to pay for services rendered will possibly hold sale of your property, do you have access to legal services? I would consult an attorney.

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Nestegg_User
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Nestegg_User » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:04 pm

Scrapr wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:59 pm
Nestegg_User wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:14 am
you got an electrician to come out, bid, and actually show up and complete the work?
around here, it's hard to find ones that come out to bid on small jobs.... and they are booked out for months

I'd say, especially if you will need him in the future, and if he did the work on time and correctly, to bite the bullet and pay the increase (especially since you have no contract). {otherwise he will definitely overbid your next project.... if he shows up at all}
This exactly. It took us a year to get an electrician out to do some stuff. Took him several trips including attic work & crawl space work. Mrs scrapr kissed him when he came in the morning and baked cookies for him in the afternoon. It's goodwill. Pay him with a smile
Scrapr
you're in the same neck of the woods as I am so I know what you mean. It didn't take a year, but most were booked out for almost half a year.... just like when I needed deck work (those were booked for the season by march). BTW, hope you're enjoying having the Sisters out like they've been recently.... it's nice looking out on them with coffee in the morning.

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8foot7
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:10 pm

15% variance isn’t unusual. If you’re good with the work, just pay it.

Scrapr
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Scrapr » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:25 pm

Nestegg_User wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:04 pm
Scrapr wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:59 pm
Nestegg_User wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:14 am
you got an electrician to come out, bid, and actually show up and complete the work?
around here, it's hard to find ones that come out to bid on small jobs.... and they are booked out for months

I'd say, especially if you will need him in the future, and if he did the work on time and correctly, to bite the bullet and pay the increase (especially since you have no contract). {otherwise he will definitely overbid your next project.... if he shows up at all}
This exactly. It took us a year to get an electrician out to do some stuff. Took him several trips including attic work & crawl space work. Mrs scrapr kissed him when he came in the morning and baked cookies for him in the afternoon. It's goodwill. Pay him with a smile
Scrapr
you're in the same neck of the woods as I am so I know what you mean. It didn't take a year, but most were booked out for almost half a year.... just like when I needed deck work (those were booked for the season by march). BTW, hope you're enjoying having the Sisters out like they've been recently.... it's nice looking out on them with coffee in the morning.
Well I'm in da poor part of town...LOL No view of the 3 Sisters from my house. Closer to the jail than the mountains. We saw an absolutely beautiful sunset about 3 weeks ago. Kind of like in the Caribbean they talk about the "Green flash". It was there and then it wasn't. We were trying to drive and get a picture of it. But too late. The Sisters are my favorite view. Clear cold morning and they are really standing out

We kind of lucked into the electrician.I had been bugging a few builder friends and could not get a return call. Even stopped a couple on the street. Then a referral from an HVAC contractor and we were in. But i ain't telling you who it was.... I was ready to bring one over from the big city

KandT
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by KandT » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:53 pm

wire for a 50 amp outlet is sold by the foot - did you move where the outlet was or maybe he didn't measure exactly?

Either way be at peace and pay the guy and move on - If he was good don't worry about it. If he was annoying or messy then don't have him back. EZ PEAZY. Just please be at pease and forgive him. Don't forgive him for him. Forgive him for you. :D

J295
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by J295 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:05 pm

I must admit I'm really confused by so many saying "just pay it" when OP has a proposal AND talked to the vendor and didn't receive a satisfactory explanation for the upcharge.

We have worked with many subs, including 18 on one project for a complete home renovation. If there is a bid/proposal that we accept for a fixed that's what we pay unless there is a "good reason" for a proposed increase. And yes, there are good reasons but that analysis requires understanding which party assumes the risk of the unanticipated circumstance.

I've never has a vendor come back to me on a fixed contract and ask for more; and I've never had one offer to refund me money because it was less time consuming/cheaper materials than they projected.

Audioarc
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by Audioarc » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:08 pm

If the work is complete and satisfactory pay the man. Next time you hire a guy for a small job pay time and materials if you’re worried about it that much.

toofache32
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by toofache32 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:43 pm

J295 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:05 pm
I must admit I'm really confused by so many saying "just pay it" when OP has a proposal AND talked to the vendor and didn't receive a satisfactory explanation for the upcharge.

We have worked with many subs, including 18 on one project for a complete home renovation. If there is a bid/proposal that we accept for a fixed that's what we pay unless there is a "good reason" for a proposed increase. And yes, there are good reasons but that analysis requires understanding which party assumes the risk of the unanticipated circumstance.

I've never has a vendor come back to me on a fixed contract and ask for more; and I've never had one offer to refund me money because it was less time consuming/cheaper materials than they projected.
Do we know if the original number was an "estimate" or a "bid"? Big difference.

donotgiveup
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by donotgiveup » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:26 pm

There is probably very good reason for this extra cost, 50A double pole circuit requires wire no. 6 AWG (check the cost per feet at your local home improvement store), he run it from your breaker box to location you requested, and most likely had to run it differently than he originally estimated that could result in longer run and therefore extra cost. This is pretty common when it comes to existing homes.

spectec
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by spectec » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:26 am

Raydo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:15 pm
I have hired an electrician and he has completed job without issue.

The electrician gave me a proposal with labor and material cost before work and there is no contract signed.

Now he gave me an invoice with $200 increase on material without good reason(I have talked to him)

Do I just pay whatever in proposal and hope that he would accept that.

Thanks.
I don't see in the ensuing discussion that you ever gave any information about the "good reason" you don't agree with. Apparently the professional thought there was good reason because he included it in the bill. You don't agree that there is good reason. After you talked with him, he didn't offer to reduce the bill. Care to explain what explanation he offered and why you don't accept it?

In my business, I have occasionally had clients who questioned my fees. Not often, but it has happened. When I asked the reason for their objection, their response is usually a vague "it just seems like too much." My policy has always been to tell them to send me a check for whatever they think it's worth, and maybe their next accountant will be more to their liking.
Last edited by spectec on Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers

-ryan-
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Re: How to pay electrician

Post by -ryan- » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:40 am

donotgiveup wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:26 pm
There is probably very good reason for this extra cost, 50A double pole circuit requires wire no. 6 AWG (check the cost per feet at your local home improvement store), he run it from your breaker box to location you requested, and most likely had to run it differently than he originally estimated that could result in longer run and therefore extra cost. This is pretty common when it comes to existing homes.
This is what I was thinking. Running up against something like a fire block in a wall that he wasn't aware of before starting can make it more logically to simply route the wire another way, and when you add up what seem like even relatively short additional horizontal runs to the new route and back, multiplied by the cost of such heavy gauge wire, that could account for most of the cost overage.

But it is hard to tell if this is the case because, while the OP said he wasn't satisfied with the reason for the cost increase, he chose not to elaborate on the reason given. But $200 on a job like that is not a bad variance, and if you are not comfortable with doing your own electrical work it can be a terrific advantage to keep an electrician happy.

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