Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

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Topic Author
am
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Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm

I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?

anil686
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by anil686 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:53 pm

Any thoughts of buying a used 3 series off of a lease but still under warranty and extending it with a manufacturer VSA? I would think that would be the lowest cost of the options you provided (lease/buy/buy used and extend original warranty)...

navyitaly
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by navyitaly » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:55 pm

Don’t put money down on a lease..instead put multiple security deposits down and lower the money factor.

flyphotoguy
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by flyphotoguy » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:01 pm

Leasing is not my thing but I do have a friend who likes to rotate nice cars. He's been leasing forever except for his Tesla model S and he's been happy doing it. Maybe it will work for you if you want to drive and return the car without worrying about future repair/maintenance. Can't help you on the numbers though but I do believe there are leasing calculators out there. Good luck.

Nissanzx1
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Nissanzx1 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:16 pm

For me it just really shakes out to the math. Add up the maintenance and repairs. You will likely find that leasing is more expensive unless you have had awful luck with major mechanical problems. Newer cars have more expensive property taxes, sales taxes, and insurance so that’s all worth considering.

I’d keep your 3 series and buy one that’s 3-4 years old with cash. Keep a few grand laying for repairs and keep the old 3 around for when you need a spare car.


I personally am not plopping $4000 down on anything I don’t get to keep. It just goes against my grain as a Boglehead concerned with value.

As far as concerns with damage and dings, etc. You’ll find that as long as you enter into another lease, they are pretty forgiving... try to end the lease and then the magnifying glass comes out...

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Watty
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Watty » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:26 pm

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing.
Swindled may be too strong a word but leases are so complex and the contracts are written by the dealership so the chances of being taken advantage of are probably a lot higher with a lease.
am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
Am I missing something here?
They are not usually not a good deal but compared to leasing buying a new or CPO car with an extended warranty might make sense.
am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I place a great price on my energy and time....
Leasing might not be right for you. Researching and negotiating a new lease every three years will suck up a lot of energy and time and because it is more complex it will likely be more effort each time you do it than buying a car.

jminv
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by jminv » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:39 pm

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
Why not go for a more reliable brand this time around, lease or not? Bmw is still objectively mediocre in terms of reliability. Look at different reports if you like. Anecdotally, my mother has had nothing but trouble with her 3 series that’s 2 years old. Problem after problem after problem. It’s almost a lemon. Also crazy how they seem to just eat coolant and have no warning until there’s nothing.

Also, if you have a bad bmw dealer you’ll still be stuck with them during the lease for servicing.

Leases can be fine. Shop around to get the best deal you can.

Don’t be concerned about scratches or dings or tires charges or you’ll fall trap to their ‘insurance’ for these things which are the highest margin item of all in the deal. No one needs insurance for what is normal wear and tear. If you get scratches or dings it lowers the value of a car. With a lease you pay according to how these are treated in the lease agreement. If you owned the car and had a bashed up car the value would also be lower at the resale point. It’s not really something unique to leases.

Luckywon
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Luckywon » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:03 pm

navyitaly wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:55 pm
Don’t put money down on a lease..instead put multiple security deposits down and lower the money factor.
What happens to your security deposits if the car is totaled? Are they returned? Maybe it depends on the specifics of the lease?

clutchied
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by clutchied » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:33 pm

Have you considered a Tesla model 3 lease? $400/mo.!

Topic Author
am
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:36 pm

clutchied wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:33 pm
Have you considered a Tesla model 3 lease? $400/mo.!
How does the model 3 drive? Is it tough getting used to for someone who has been driving gas guzzlers for decades? How is maintenance?

clutchied
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by clutchied » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:11 am

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:36 pm
clutchied wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:33 pm
Have you considered a Tesla model 3 lease? $400/mo.!
How does the model 3 drive? Is it tough getting used to for someone who has been driving gas guzzlers for decades? How is maintenance?
it's great really! very easy to learn 1 pedal driving. maintenance costs are pretty much zero.

they can burn through tires a little faster than a gas car if you're heavy footed.

Other than that it feels like a normal care without the noise and fuss...


Go drive one!

mountain-lion
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by mountain-lion » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:17 am

Luckywon wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:03 pm
What happens to your security deposits if the car is totaled? Are they returned? Maybe it depends on the specifics of the lease?
If you have properly insured the car, you get them back. Make sure you have GAP (usually required by the lease).

Valuethinker
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:42 am

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
Ahhh BMW - a car one loves for the drive, but not for the Life Cycle Cost ... more a lover than a spouse.

How about buying a 2 year old BMW (well depreciated), running it for 3-4 years then rinse & repeat?

How does that work out?

All you are doing in a lease is turning the (high) depreciation expense into an ongoing cash cost. You pay it anyways but in a lease you "borrow" it from the leasing company -- with all sorts of gotchas to make sure they make money from the trade.

Automotive technology is changing *fast*. The EV is here and if it is not practical for most users, now, in 10+ years it will be and the infrastructure will be built (in some, if not all countries; "the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed" - W. Gibson). We are nearing the tipping point (on so many levels) in technology and society where the old becomes the truly obsolete and in sweeps the new. I have more scepticism about Autonomous Vehicle technology (but know very little about it) but EVs? The future is (almost) upon us.

But that's perhaps a decade out. The 2030s could be an extraordinary decade.

In the meantime technology "lock in" has a cost. Things are changing.

All that speaks to shorter holding periods, and the best way to do that is perhaps a used one?

surfstar
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by surfstar » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am

I think the issue is the car (BMW), not the lease.

If cost/value seem to matter, why are you wanting a 3 series? Expand your horizon - plenty of quality cars out there now, if you're not beholden to a nameplate.

Topic Author
am
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:07 am

surfstar wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
I think the issue is the car (BMW), not the lease.

If cost/value seem to matter, why are you wanting a 3 series? Expand your horizon - plenty of quality cars out there now, if you're not beholden to a nameplate.
Give some examples. I have the money for a luxury brand and save plenty,

Valuethinker
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:29 am

am wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:07 am
surfstar wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 am
I think the issue is the car (BMW), not the lease.

If cost/value seem to matter, why are you wanting a 3 series? Expand your horizon - plenty of quality cars out there now, if you're not beholden to a nameplate.
Give some examples. I have the money for a luxury brand and save plenty,
but you want the driving experience, right?

That's BMW, Mercedes, Audi & maybe VW. It's a "German" rather than a Japanese or North American road feel. A country which has (one of) the plausible claims to have invented the motor car, has high speed freeways and lots of twisting windy roads.

All of those brands have high Total Cost of Ownership/ Life Cycle Cost. Mostly that's about depreciation but also about the cost of repairs. And reliability compared to the Japanese is generally fair-to-poor.

But so what? One only lives once, and we don't all buy practical cars. This is not going to be the best economic decision you ever made - it will rank at best among the mediocre ones, and if you are unlucky, a bad financial decision. Main question is whether you can afford to make that (financial) mistake?

The logic takes me to used, to avoid the biggest cost of a new car - depreciation.

Admit it, this is not a practical car. It just happens to be a car you like to drive. Now find the lowest cost way of doing it. Given reliability and cost to repair, I doubt you want to drive it past 6 years old.

SeaToTheBay
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by SeaToTheBay » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:30 am

Check out the Merc C-class as well. IMO top of the class, and my wife's last-generation C-class has been impressive from a reliability and maintenance standpoint.

You might also check out the new Genesis G70 - it recently beat the 3-series in Motor Trend magazine (although the Model 3 won).

Coltrane75
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Coltrane75 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:08 pm

Leasing, like another poster said, is a black box; you have no idea how they determine the payment. There was a fanatic at Bimmerforums that created a spreadsheet to reverse engineer lease payments and concluded the dealer charges some sort of defacto interest. So leasing made me uncomfortable and also didn't like that it conditions you to always want a new car every 3 years; expensive.

So I decided to buy new and decided to go for a BMW 3 series. Most often, you have to trade-off reliability for luxury/sport. I had my previous Jetta that I bought new and had it for 9 years/150,000miles.

I bought the 2016 340xi, got a 3 year loan @1.8% from a credit union. I've had no problems to-date with the car and intend to hold onto it for its reliable life. I also know a good generic BMW mechanic that I can go to.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:17 pm

I'm curious what maintenance and repair items have been done. I've owned a couple BMWs and a couple Audis, but none for a long time.

How about instead of a BMW....a Porsche 911?
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southerndoc
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by southerndoc » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm

My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors

dsmclone
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by dsmclone » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm

It annoys me when people say "BMW is unreliable". Not all models are created equal. I drive a 2015 BMW 235i. It's motor (N55) is known to be super reliable as well as the ZF8 transmission. It's fit/finish is top notch. About 80% of the cars I've owned have been Asian with reputation for being reliable. Most of them were reliable but I had a first year CRV that was not great, a Mazdaspeed 3 that had terrible interior quality, a Nissan 350z that had known tire wear issues, etc.

Pick something that is not all new(redesign) and has a good history. Regardless of brand.

RJC
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by RJC » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:34 pm

There is a reason why dealers are always pushing for a lease.

RJC
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by RJC » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:43 pm

dsmclone wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
It annoys me when people say "BMW is unreliable". Not all models are created equal. I drive a 2015 BMW 235i. It's motor (N55) is known to be super reliable as well as the ZF8 transmission. It's fit/finish is top notch. About 80% of the cars I've owned have been Asian with reputation for being reliable. Most of them were reliable but I had a first year CRV that was not great, a Mazdaspeed 3 that had terrible interior quality, a Nissan 350z that had known tire wear issues, etc.

Pick something that is not all new(redesign) and has a good history. Regardless of brand.
I think BMW is average in reliability. I had a 2008 328 for 6-7 years (maybe 1 sensor issue) and a 2015 428 (no issues). If you take care of your car (easy on the gas, maintenance regularly, etc.), they should last for a while without major issues.

wrongfunds
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:43 pm

southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors
This just can NOT be real! For an equivalent Japanese car, it would have been no more than "1 battery + 1 set of brake rotors + 1 set of spark plug" somewhere around 100K miles and that's it unless one with timing belt, then add timing belt, water pump, drive belts to the list of scheduled maintenance.

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southerndoc
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by southerndoc » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:32 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:43 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors
This just can NOT be real! For an equivalent Japanese car, it would have been no more than "1 battery + 1 set of brake rotors + 1 set of spark plug" somewhere around 100K miles and that's it unless one with timing belt, then add timing belt, water pump, drive belts to the list of scheduled maintenance.
Definitely real. The high pressure fuel pumps were a defect of the N54 engine. They finally redesigned them. All 4 of them went out and 1 set of turbo waste gates were replaced before the car even had 40,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 120,000 miles.

The car has been to a BMW service center every scheduled maintenance. It's been a lemon, but with each thing I add (i.e., transmission), I try to keep it for a little longer to recoup my money. My wife can't believe I'm still attached to the car. I've replaced (upgraded) the speakers and it has a laser jammer, etc. in it. I was hoping to keep it another 5 years or until the wheels fall off, whichever comes first.

ssquared87
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by ssquared87 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:09 am

southerndoc wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:32 am
wrongfunds wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:43 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors
This just can NOT be real! For an equivalent Japanese car, it would have been no more than "1 battery + 1 set of brake rotors + 1 set of spark plug" somewhere around 100K miles and that's it unless one with timing belt, then add timing belt, water pump, drive belts to the list of scheduled maintenance.
Definitely real. The high pressure fuel pumps were a defect of the N54 engine. They finally redesigned them. All 4 of them went out and 1 set of turbo waste gates were replaced before the car even had 40,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 120,000 miles.

The car has been to a BMW service center every scheduled maintenance. It's been a lemon, but with each thing I add (i.e., transmission), I try to keep it for a little longer to recoup my money. My wife can't believe I'm still attached to the car. I've replaced (upgraded) the speakers and it has a laser jammer, etc. in it. I was hoping to keep it another 5 years or until the wheels fall off, whichever comes first.
N54 is a notoriously problematic engine and was quickly been replaced with the N55 which addressed most of the issues you've had with the N54. The N55 has been around about 10 years now and is fairly reliable, although its replacement (b58) which is about 4 years old is even more robust and reliable.

ncbill
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by ncbill » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:36 pm

Coltrane75 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:08 pm
Leasing, like another poster said, is a black box; you have no idea how they determine the payment. There was a fanatic at Bimmerforums that created a spreadsheet to reverse engineer lease payments and concluded the dealer charges some sort of defacto interest. So leasing made me uncomfortable and also didn't like that it conditions you to always want a new car every 3 years; expensive.

So I decided to buy new and decided to go for a BMW 3 series. Most often, you have to trade-off reliability for luxury/sport. I had my previous Jetta that I bought new and had it for 9 years/150,000miles.

I bought the 2016 340xi, got a 3 year loan @1.8% from a credit union. I've had no problems to-date with the car and intend to hold onto it for its reliable life. I also know a good generic BMW mechanic that I can go to.
Use the calculator available over at leasehackr [sic] forums.

If it doesn't agree with the dealer's quote you know they're trying to pull a fast one on you (usually by marking up the money factor as you posted)

IIRC, BMW doesn't allow multiple security deposits (MSDs) any longer.

MSDs lower the "money factor" (interest rate) you pay.

OP should spend some time over at leasehackr forums & see which Bimmer models currently offer the best leases.

Bobby206
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Bobby206 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:58 pm

Make leasehakr.com your friend. GREAT info on leases there.

Topic Author
am
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:58 pm

Is it true that you want to go into a dealership and negotiate a sale price first and then tell them you want to lease?

Maverick3320
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Maverick3320 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:25 am

clutchied wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:33 pm
Have you considered a Tesla model 3 lease? $400/mo.!
Just to point out that leasehackr discusses what a terrible deal Tesla 3 leases are...

https://leasehackr.com/blog/2019/5/3/br ... h-analysis

"While the new program is certainly better, the money factor of .0024125 is still extremely high. On the SR+ car, this amounts to $164 per month in interest alone, totaling $5,904 over the course of three years. Most other brands have considerably better rates; for instance, the money factor with BMW FS this month is .00165 (3.96% APR)."

Rkoa63
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Rkoa63 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:35 pm

ncbill wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:36 pm

IIRC, BMW doesn't allow multiple security deposits (MSDs) any longer.
It depends on the market. A dealer in Southern CA told me last week that they're allowing them again.

lazydavid
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by lazydavid » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:07 am

am wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:58 pm
Is it true that you want to go into a dealership and negotiate a sale price first and then tell them you want to lease?
As long as you negotiate the sale price and understand the lease terms, it doesn't matter when you tell them you want to lease. What you don't want to do is tell them up front you want to lease, they tell you that car XXX is $399/mo, and you say "ok".

Negotiate the best sale price you can, understand the residual percentage. Subtract the residual $$ from the negotiated price--this is the depreciation you'll be paying for. Then subtract the capitalized cost reduction, which is really just a down payment (keep this as small as possible). This is the amount you'll be "financing" with the lease. Then understand the money factor--this is the "interest rate" you'll be paying to "finance" that depreciation. That will then let you calculate the monthly payment.

Also ask if purchasing a maintenance contract affects the lease terms--I know with Audi at least, if you purchase Audi Care at the time of sale, it increases your residual by 1%. This essentially makes the contract free.

Coltrane75
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Coltrane75 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:34 am

am wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:58 pm
Is it true that you want to go into a dealership and negotiate a sale price first and then tell them you want to lease?
Just throwing it out there; seems like leasing is pretty complicated. If you aren't going to put many miles on it, would it be worth considering buying it and then selling it to a private party after you want to get rid of it?

RobLyons
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by RobLyons » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:42 am

I've leased and it was a good experience. I had similar anxiety about fees related to scratches, dings, dents etc. I lost a key and it was going to cost around $300 but was able to find cheaper online.

Are you only interested in bmw?

I ask because Lexus may be more reliable in the long run, if that's something you're interested in.

Also, is your financial house in order? If not, then don't lease.

Otherwise I would say go ahead and lease.
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

Valuethinker
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Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:44 am

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
1. leasing is not a cheap solution, or indeed any solution, to the problem of a cost of a new BMW and high depreciation and reliability cost.

The depreciation will be built into the lease price. Since it is a complex calculation, the informational advantage is with the lessor not the lessee (i.e. you).

2. I still think the solution is to buy a 2-3 year old machine, drive it for 3 years, rinse and repeat? The heavy depreciation is in the first year or two.

You can still drive a BMW (although cross check against Mercedes and Audi) but you have to accept it's not the optimal financial experience.

Topic Author
am
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:32 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:44 am
am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
1. leasing is not a cheap solution, or indeed any solution, to the problem of a cost of a new BMW and high depreciation and reliability cost.

The depreciation will be built into the lease price. Since it is a complex calculation, the informational advantage is with the lessor not the lessee (i.e. you).

2. I still think the solution is to buy a 2-3 year old machine, drive it for 3 years, rinse and repeat? The heavy depreciation is in the first year or two.

You can still drive a BMW (although cross check against Mercedes and Audi) but you have to accept it's not the optimal financial experience.
Totally understand that leasing is not a wise financial choice but I’m ok with paying. I want something that is easy, meaning no worries about repairs. buying and then selling, committing to a car for years.

How much do you think a series of 3 yr leases will cost above owning a bmw? I posted an article above that says the difference shows up after 6-9 yrs and for a 3 series is 11k. I’ll pay 11k not to deal with the hassles of an older car.

Valuethinker
Posts: 38401
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:51 am

am wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:32 am
Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:44 am
am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
1. leasing is not a cheap solution, or indeed any solution, to the problem of a cost of a new BMW and high depreciation and reliability cost.

The depreciation will be built into the lease price. Since it is a complex calculation, the informational advantage is with the lessor not the lessee (i.e. you).

2. I still think the solution is to buy a 2-3 year old machine, drive it for 3 years, rinse and repeat? The heavy depreciation is in the first year or two.

You can still drive a BMW (although cross check against Mercedes and Audi) but you have to accept it's not the optimal financial experience.
Totally understand that leasing is not a wise financial choice but I’m ok with paying. I want something that is easy, meaning no worries about repairs. buying and then selling, committing to a car for years.

How much do you think a series of 3 yr leases will cost above owning a bmw? I posted an article above that says the difference shows up after 6-9 yrs and for a 3 series is 11k. I’ll pay 11k not to deal with the hassles of an older car.
I have never run the calculation (and the UK case would be different anyways).

I understand that 80% of BMWs in the USA are bought on lease, so you'll be in good company ;-).

jmorgans
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:53 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by jmorgans » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 am

Just to correct what one poster said- you do not need to service the car at the dealership you leased it from. In fact I don’t think I ever have. I will lease from whoever gives me the best price and service it at the most convenient one. They are happy to have me and will even give me loaner cars!

Ned Nederlander
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Ned Nederlander » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:26 am

Leasing isn’t that bad if you do it right. You shouldn’t be paying $399 with $4K “Down” on a 3 series. Keep in mind this is more like $7,000 out of pocket when you read the fine print and realized you have to pay taxes, fees, and DMV out of pocket too. Dealerships use the term down payment to mean a capitalized cost reduction which is technically correct, but they know people will think it means cash out of pocket. Research the money factor, residual values, and rebates in the month you’re thinking of leasing, because they change every month. There’s an Edmunds message board that will give you MF, RV, and rebates, but remember they are regional and depend on mileage required. Autobytel.com also gives you more extensive rebate information. Remember “dealer cash” should be pushed to you but some dealerships won’t do that. So go to the next. Also remember rebates are coming from the manufacturer so if you’re getting $3,000 in rebates and the dealership is giving you $3,000 off MSRP, they aren’t really giving you anything.

As mentioned above multiple security deposits are really the only thing you should come out of pocket with. Quick story. I drove my 2002 Honda Accord for 10 years, 180,000 miles. I then decided to treat myself to a brand new Altima lease in Sept. of 2012. I traded in my Accord for $3,000 and put another $2,000 down. 2 months later Hurricane(now calling it Superstorm) Sandy came through completely flooding my vehicle and making it a total loss. Never saw that $5,000 again.(MSDs would be refunded in this scenario.) I had to lease another car but this time I didn’t put anything down. Anyway, MSDs on BMWs are a little less exciting than at other companies like Infiniti, but still good. Each MSD at BMW reduces your money factor .00005 which is basically equivalent to 1/8 the rate.(Multiply your MF by 2400 to come up with rate.) I believe BMW allows 8 which enables you to lower your rate by 1%. Infiniti allows 10 and each one is a reduction of .0001 or .25% for a total of 2.5%. Multiple security deposits are your monthly payment rounded to the nearest $50. So if your payment is $399, 8 MSDs would be $3200. On a 3 series this may save you $300 a year(not a bad return knowing that $3200 is definitely coming back.)

Long story short, go into the dealership knowing the MF,RV, and rebates. Don’t negotiate the monthly payments, just negotiate the sales price of the car. Researching Cargurus.com first, to see what they are selling for, is helpful.

Good Luck!

sk2101
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by sk2101 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:33 pm

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online.
shoot for around $300 with $0 down. Around $250 if you are fine with a prior loaner. Read up on leasehack as others suggested.

I am not going to debate whether it's a good idea to get a BMW these days, that's another topic, but at least with a lease it's off your hands in 2-3 years.

WhiteMaxima
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by WhiteMaxima » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:51 pm

BMW is so unreliable and expensive to maintain. Why don't you buy a Honda Civic Si or Mazda 3, they are fun to drive and cheap to run. 3x12x399+4000=19000 could pay for Si or Mazda 3.

Swansea
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:16 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Swansea » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:58 pm

southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors
Hopefully your mileage was ok to cover the HPFPs, turbos, and fuel injectors which had extended warranties. I would have expected the water pump to go given the mileage.

visualguy
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:32 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by visualguy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:02 pm

WhiteMaxima wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:51 pm
BMW is so unreliable and expensive to maintain.
They are ranked very high overall in reliability these days, actually.

Some of their models are less reliable than others. Their 4 and 6 cylinder cars and SUVs of recent vintage are fine. The 8 cylinder ones are more challenging on that front, but they are a lot of fun. Also, the M cars tend to have more issues than the non-M cars, and they are more expensive to maintain and fix.

Regardless, leasing is absolutely the right way to go with these cars in most cases. I would buy only if the lease terms on the car were really bad, or if I wasn't going to drive the car much. If you drive 10K+ miles a year and the lease terms are reasonable, just lease. The 3 series typically has good lease terms.
Last edited by visualguy on Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 20968
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:03 pm

There is a reason why Dave Ramsey calls leases, fleeces. Guess?
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Topic Author
am
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:09 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:03 pm
There is a reason why Dave Ramsey calls leases, fleeces. Guess?
But why should the benefits of a lease be free? It’s no fun wasting time and money fixing an older car, especially luxury.

randomguy
Posts: 7973
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by randomguy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:18 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:03 pm
There is a reason why Dave Ramsey calls leases, fleeces. Guess?
Because pithy slogans appeal to his listeners most of whom have horrible financial practices and discipline?:)

If you are getting new cars every 5 or 6years, leases are a somewhat sane way of going. They do require you to get a good price out the gate (i.e. the advertised prices are horrible). and things like leasing loaners or having outside incentives (Volvo often is handing out 2k in lease incentives to various groups like Costco member) can tip the balance.

randomguy
Posts: 7973
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by randomguy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:30 pm

Swansea wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:58 pm
southerndoc wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:21 pm
My 2009 535i with 162,000 miles on it (purchased brand new; ordered it):

4 high pressure fuel pumps
2 fuel pumps
2 turbo waste gates
1 water pump
2 batteries
1 transmission
1 set of fuel injectors
1 set of ignition coils
2 sets of spark plugs
4? sets of brake rotors
Hopefully your mileage was ok to cover the HPFPs, turbos, and fuel injectors which had extended warranties. I would have expected the water pump to go given the mileage.
About half that list is normal maintenance (spark plugs, water pump, batteries, brake rotors) that happens any car over 160k miles of work. It isn't like you can drive a lexus for 10 years/160k miles without replacing the battery or spark plugs. Now some cars need more parts (60k spark plugs versus 100k) along the way by design.

Now the transmission is another story:) And 4 sets of rotors is either some excessive brake use:) or poor engineering.

jmorgans
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:53 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by jmorgans » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:03 pm
There is a reason why Dave Ramsey calls leases, fleeces. Guess?
Driving a new car is a luxury for sure, one on which some of us choose to spend our hard earned money. But getting fleeced? Like every other deal that depends on the terms. People get fleeced financing their cars, and yes even paying cash.

FoolStreet
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by FoolStreet » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:07 pm

am wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:32 pm
I’ve driven my current 3 series for more than 12 years and am tired of maintenance and increasing repairs. Tired of the unreliability and outdated safety features. I’m in the market for a new car, preferably a low level luxury sedan. I can get a 3 series lease for 399/month and 4K down or so based on what I saw online. I don’t want to commit to another car For >10yrs and put up so much cash (don’t intend on financing).

I saw a breakdown that after 6 yrs it’s basically a wash versus buying and about a 11k difference after year 9 https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/buy-v ... w-3-series. The reduced hassle, lack of worry about maintenance, repairs and being swindled by the dealership are very appealing. I place a great price on my energy and time and think leasing would reduce frustrations.

Am I missing something here? I don’t drive more than 10k miles a year. I am concerned about scratches and dings and how much it would cost when I return. How about if I need body repairs and don’t use original parts. Any disadvantage of paying the entire lease amount at once? Any other pitfalls I should watch out for?
I think you should get a car with an electric plug.

Topic Author
am
Posts: 2978
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:55 am

Re: Thinking of leasing bmw 3 series

Post by am » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:09 pm

24k total one payment for 3 yr lease of new bmw is the deal I got. Makes me feel sorry for the money for 3 yrs.

I’m torn. Part of me wants a luxury car like Tesla or bmw because I can afford it (Networth/income 98-99% for age) and it’s nice status symbol. While my boglehead side wants to get a practical car for 20-30k and drive it for at least 10 yrs. But what’s the point of all the money if your on track to have more than enough? Richest man in the cemetery :D ?

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