Home buying

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Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
TheOscarGuy
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Re: Home buying

Post by TheOscarGuy »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
This is at the top of your budget, you said.
Usually the RE agent and the inspector should be able to give you a ballpark figure. You can even get a vendor in for getting you a quote free of charge, for all the work needed on the house. Once that is done, you may present it to seller and either ask them for a reduction in price, or ask them to fix it all up. What is the limit after which you can walk out of a deal? It should say so in your initial offer.

The way I see it, you are spending at the top of your budget, and I am unsure if you have money to pay for expenses if they say no to fixing it. I would personally walk away if they don't take care of it all (or most).
ponyboy
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Re: Home buying

Post by ponyboy »

You're already at the top of your budget and the problems found in the inspection could cost a lot of $$. Mold can be found in almost any house if you look hard enough. Not sure how bad it is but if there is a real mold problem, good luck.

There are plenty of homes out there. If you're dead set on this home then counter with a much lower offer.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Home buying

Post by JoeRetire »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Ask the inspector and real estate agent about repair costs. Decide if negotiating some money back at closing would make sense.

Since the house is at the top of your budget, and you weren't expecting issues that need repair, do you have any money set aside for such repairs?

If so, how much? If not, walk away.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Nissanzx1
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Re: Home buying

Post by Nissanzx1 »

Greetings- this is all pretty normal stuff. A house is more of a lifestyle choice and will always be expensive to maintain.

Negotiate with the seller and see if you can come to terms. Thousands need spent it sounds like, seller will know that... move on to another house, there is one on every corner.

Don’t let the mold freak you out, it’s usually not that expensive to get rid of. As with anything on a house, the minimum number of bids is 3.

Good Luck
barnaclebob
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

This is all pretty normal stuff for a house of this age. Make sure you can budget for fixing these items. Most sellers probably wont replace old but working plumbing or equipment, you may be able to get them to fix the broken AC unit. Get the pipes inspected with a camera.

How exactly is the deck poorly structured? Did does it just need some extra bracing that can be bolted on or is it major rework? Decks are pretty simple and most reinforcement should be less than a weekend project.

Lead paint is ok as long as its not peeling or breaking apart creating dust and chips. You'll need to take precautions if you ever remove it or do anything besides paint over it.

Mold may or may not be a problem and the crawl space leaks could be remedied by something as simple as making sure the gutters are draining away from the house. It could be a very expensive french drain project too. It might not even need repair if the leaks are minor.
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lthenderson
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Re: Home buying

Post by lthenderson »

I think all this sounds pretty typical of a home inspection. They are going to point out things like that but I personally don't see anything that screams that it must be fixed now. A 16 year old HVAC system still can have lots of life left. You mentioned one of the A/C units not working. There are lots of simple fixes to get one up and running. Really you big concern is if the A/C unit is rusted out and leaking refrigerant. Leaks in a crawl space aren't desirable and not something you want long term but short term they aren't anything to worry about. There are lots of simple things like regrading around the house, getting the gutter system to work properly by cleaning them, etc. that can be done to prevent water from getting there to start with. Fifty year old cast iron piping is not "old" and probably doesn't need scoping unless there are obvious problems right now. I've worked with cast iron piping twice as old that was still working perfectly. Asbestos and lead are presented as being such scary things by companies selling services but really they aren't if left alone. Granted you can't always leave them alone and then certain precautions should be taken when that day comes, but unless you let your baby teeth on asbestos wrapped piping, I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

When buying ANY house, one should always leave enough money in your budget to fix things that crop up because there is always something(s) that will crop up. Even brand new houses have their share of problems too. From the sounds of your post, it sounds like you are stretching too far for this house.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Home buying

Post by Sandtrap »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Suggestions:

Get estimates from 3 licensed HVAC contractors for replacement of HVAC unit(s).
Get estimates from a licensed plumber (and/or 3 licensed plumbers) to replace the water heater and to replace the old cast iron drain in the crawl space with ABS.
(why? because when cast iron piping is old and leaking, it is often more efficient to replace it with ABS. As it is old, it will continue to have problems along its run).
Get estimates from several licensed contractors to rebuild and reinforce deck as needed, seal crawl space and do measures to eliminate moisture and mold.

The purpose here is not to get the lowest total (which the R/E agents, sellers, would find more attractive), but the middle to high estimates, because in the long run, after purchasing the house, it is you who will have to foot the bill. Of course, things can be done for less money, simple fixes etc, but at this point in the buying stage you want some really solid numbers to negotiate with.

It may be in your best interests to handle the estimates yourself.

Finally, if you begin to get the "feeling/intuition" that this home is going to be a "money pit", move on, find another. There's no sense purchasing a home and having it bug you forever. There doesn't have to be logic to it. If it doesn't "feel right" then listen to that as only you can judge that for yourself.

Good luck.
j :happy
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Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

TheOscarGuy wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:59 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
This is at the top of your budget, you said.
Usually the RE agent and the inspector should be able to give you a ballpark figure. You can even get a vendor in for getting you a quote free of charge, for all the work needed on the house. Once that is done, you may present it to seller and either ask them for a reduction in price, or ask them to fix it all up. What is the limit after which you can walk out of a deal? It should say so in your initial offer.

The way I see it, you are spending at the top of your budget, and I am unsure if you have money to pay for expenses if they say no to fixing it. I would personally walk away if they don't take care of it all (or most).
Thanks for your response. Our due diligence ends early next week so we can walk out anytime before then.
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SmallCityDave
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Re: Home buying

Post by SmallCityDave »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Sounds like you need to ask the seller to repair the AC unit, leaks should be fixed, mold should be dealt with, I've had homes of that era tested and have not had them come up positive for lead. Lead based paint is not a real concern as long as the paint is in good condition.

All this is "normal" the concerning part is being at the top of your budget.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

ponyboy wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:00 am You're already at the top of your budget and the problems found in the inspection could cost a lot of $$. Mold can be found in almost any house if you look hard enough. Not sure how bad it is but if there is a real mold problem, good luck.

There are plenty of homes out there. If you're dead set on this home then counter with a much lower offer.
Mold was identified in the basement and the crawl space. There were areas behind the faucet of a shower that have gaps and clearly have water leaking through. My biggest concern is about mold behind the walls that we obviously cannot identify. We can pay for a mold inspection but again, if this is not the home for us and I've already spent $700 for inspection/radon, I'm not sure it would be wise to go through with it. Thanks for your input.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

JoeRetire wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:03 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Ask the inspector and real estate agent about repair costs. Decide if negotiating some money back at closing would make sense.

Since the house is at the top of your budget, and you weren't expecting issues that need repair, do you have any money set aside for such repairs?

If so, how much? If not, walk away.
We had money saved for the hardwood flooring to be redone and the house to be re-painted (more cosmetic), around $15k which I think would need to be put on a back burner now that there are all these issues identified (at least the hardwood flooring part)
Topic Author
cookiesncream
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

Nissanzx1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:05 am Greetings- this is all pretty normal stuff. A house is more of a lifestyle choice and will always be expensive to maintain.

Negotiate with the seller and see if you can come to terms. Thousands need spent it sounds like, seller will know that... move on to another house, there is one on every corner.

Don’t let the mold freak you out, it’s usually not that expensive to get rid of. As with anything on a house, the minimum number of bids is 3.

Good Luck
Thanks, good advice.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:13 am This is all pretty normal stuff for a house of this age. Make sure you can budget for fixing these items. Most sellers probably wont replace old but working plumbing or equipment, you may be able to get them to fix the broken AC unit. Get the pipes inspected with a camera.

How exactly is the deck poorly structured? Did does it just need some extra bracing that can be bolted on or is it major rework? Decks are pretty simple and most reinforcement should be less than a weekend project.

Lead paint is ok as long as its not peeling or breaking apart creating dust and chips. You'll need to take precautions if you ever remove it or do anything besides paint over it.

Mold may or may not be a problem and the crawl space leaks could be remedied by something as simple as making sure the gutters are draining away from the house. It could be a very expensive french drain project too. It might not even need repair if the leaks are minor.
Per the inspector, the deck is poorly built. There are a lot of issues that seem small though, more reinforcing and adding brackets/bolts.
barnaclebob
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of relatively minor issues. Getting 3 contractors out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents. These problems (plumbing, HVAC, crawlspace leaks, maybe the mold) probably average out to $5k each and don't need to be taken care of immediately aside from the AC before summer if its a hot climate.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doesn't mean its unsafe.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Wed May 29, 2019 8:47 am, edited 5 times in total.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

lthenderson wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:21 am I think all this sounds pretty typical of a home inspection. They are going to point out things like that but I personally don't see anything that screams that it must be fixed now. A 16 year old HVAC system still can have lots of life left. You mentioned one of the A/C units not working. There are lots of simple fixes to get one up and running. Really you big concern is if the A/C unit is rusted out and leaking refrigerant. Leaks in a crawl space aren't desirable and not something you want long term but short term they aren't anything to worry about. There are lots of simple things like regrading around the house, getting the gutter system to work properly by cleaning them, etc. that can be done to prevent water from getting there to start with. Fifty year old cast iron piping is not "old" and probably doesn't need scoping unless there are obvious problems right now. I've worked with cast iron piping twice as old that was still working perfectly. Asbestos and lead are presented as being such scary things by companies selling services but really they aren't if left alone. Granted you can't always leave them alone and then certain precautions should be taken when that day comes, but unless you let your baby teeth on asbestos wrapped piping, I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

When buying ANY house, one should always leave enough money in your budget to fix things that crop up because there is always something(s) that will crop up. Even brand new houses have their share of problems too. From the sounds of your post, it sounds like you are stretching too far for this house.
Thanks. Good to know about cast iron piping. We had money saved for the hardwood flooring to be redone and house to be re-painted (more cosmetic) which I think would need to be put on a back burner now that there are all these issues identified.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:29 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Suggestions:

Get estimates from 3 licensed HVAC contractors for replacement of HVAC unit(s).
Get estimates from a licensed plumber (and/or 3 licensed plumbers) to replace the water heater and to replace the old cast iron drain in the crawl space with ABS.
(why? because when cast iron piping is old and leaking, it is often more efficient to replace it with ABS. As it is old, it will continue to have problems along its run).
Get estimates from several licensed contractors to rebuild and reinforce deck as needed, seal crawl space and do measures to eliminate moisture and mold.

The purpose here is not to get the lowest total (which the R/E agents, sellers, would find more attractive), but the middle to high estimates, because in the long run, after purchasing the house, it is you who will have to foot the bill. Of course, things can be done for less money, simple fixes etc, but at this point in the buying stage you want some really solid numbers to negotiate with.

It may be in your best interests to handle the estimates yourself.

Finally, if you begin to get the "feeling/intuition" that this home is going to be a "money pit", move on, find another. There's no sense purchasing a home and having it bug you forever. There doesn't have to be logic to it. If it doesn't "feel right" then listen to that as only you can judge that for yourself.

Good luck.
j :happy
Thanks for the suggestions and input. The intuition is kicking in already but I have no idea what the "norm" is and if I should be trusting my intuition given the lack of experience with buying/maintaining homes. I guess that's where experience helps.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of issues. Getting 3 people out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doens't mean its unsafe.
Yep, I think the deck will have to be a "down the road" solution. Getting the inspection done on the 3 day weekend so we had enough time to think about it was a nightmare! Now wondering if we should invest in getting mold testing, lead testing, HVAC, and plumber - all within a week.
Topic Author
cookiesncream
Posts: 27
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

SmallCityDave wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:35 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Sounds like you need to ask the seller to repair the AC unit, leaks should be fixed, mold should be dealt with, I've had homes of that era tested and have not had them come up positive for lead. Lead based paint is not a real concern as long as the paint is in good condition.

All this is "normal" the concerning part is being at the top of your budget.
Good to know about your experience with lead. Have a toddler and hopefully another one in the future. As a parent, their health scares me more than anything else...
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lthenderson
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Re: Home buying

Post by lthenderson »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:36 am My biggest concern is about mold behind the walls that we obviously cannot identify.
Mold behind a wall should not be a concern. Every single house I have ever lived in or fixed up has had mold in it somewhere. I would guarantee you there is mold somewhere in that house. The real concern when seeing mold, is finding and fixing what it feeds off.... water. Once you address the moisture issue, mold will die off on its own and can be helped along with chemicals like bleach and be removed. When removing drywall or flooring in potentially wet areas like bathrooms, I always wear a respirator to limit my exposure to any mold that I find.
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SmallCityDave
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Re: Home buying

Post by SmallCityDave »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:45 am
SmallCityDave wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:35 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Sounds like you need to ask the seller to repair the AC unit, leaks should be fixed, mold should be dealt with, I've had homes of that era tested and have not had them come up positive for lead. Lead based paint is not a real concern as long as the paint is in good condition.

All this is "normal" the concerning part is being at the top of your budget.
Good to know about your experience with lead. Have a toddler and hopefully another one in the future. As a parent, their health scares me more than anything else...
Most people that are 40 and over grew up in homes that may have had lead based paint and most survived ;)
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SmallCityDave
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Re: Home buying

Post by SmallCityDave »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of relatively minor issues. Getting 3 contractors out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents. These problems (plumbing, HVAC, crawlspace leaks, maybe the mold) probably average out to $5k each and don't need to be taken care of immediately aside from the AC before summer if its a hot climate.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doesn't mean its unsafe.
This!
barnaclebob
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:44 am
barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of issues. Getting 3 people out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doens't mean its unsafe.
Yep, I think the deck will have to be a "down the road" solution. Getting the inspection done on the 3 day weekend so we had enough time to think about it was a nightmare! Now wondering if we should invest in getting mold testing, lead testing, HVAC, and plumber - all within a week.
Testing will just tell you that yep its mold, and yep its lead paint. If you have 15k set aside and are still able to save a healthy amount each month you'll be fine. If you follow the most conservative advice on here you'll never find a house. People will tell you horror stories about having to get all kinds of inspections and estimates or you'll be ruined. Any house can have a random problem that the inspector wont find.

These problems aren't the "unlimited" cost type of problems like major foundation repair or having to replace a lateral sewer line. Speaking of the lateral sewer line, thats the one thing I'd recommend having done. Watch this episode starting at ~16 min of This Old House to see why: https://www.njtvonline.org/programs/thi ... se-io8rvw/ This house is only 12 years older than your prospective house.
Nissanzx1
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Re: Home buying

Post by Nissanzx1 »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of relatively minor issues. Getting 3 contractors out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents. These problems (plumbing, HVAC, crawlspace leaks, maybe the mold) probably average out to $5k each and don't need to be taken care of immediately aside from the AC before summer if its a hot climate.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doesn't mean its unsafe.
Minimum of 3. I bought a house in April actually. I had 5 bids for HVAC and 4 bids for roofing. Saved over $3000 on both jobs from next highest priced contractor. Don’t be lazy when it comes to bidding if you care about what things cost... Let all the vendors know they are competing.
vested1
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Re: Home buying

Post by vested1 »

A 6 hour home inspection? Wow. Our inspector took two hours, but then again our home is a single level on a slab and only 1373 sq ft. My first suggestion is to insist on a home warranty of one year from the seller, to cover plumbing, electrical, and appliances. After the year is over, take over payments for the warranty, which is a winning bet on an older house. Ask for the warranty regardless of whether you buy this house or pass and choose another one. If the seller is reluctant to spend the $500 or so for the warranty I would pass.

If you follow through on the purchase of this house, ask for a reduction in price for buying it "as is" or ask that the more serious items be fixed prior to close of escrow.

I go overboard on maintenance and build quality, so everything that was pointed out on the inspection, all minor issues, was already on my list to complete before close of escrow.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Home buying

Post by Sandtrap »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:42 am
Sandtrap wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:29 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Suggestions:

Get estimates from 3 licensed HVAC contractors for replacement of HVAC unit(s).
Get estimates from a licensed plumber (and/or 3 licensed plumbers) to replace the water heater and to replace the old cast iron drain in the crawl space with ABS.
(why? because when cast iron piping is old and leaking, it is often more efficient to replace it with ABS. As it is old, it will continue to have problems along its run).
Get estimates from several licensed contractors to rebuild and reinforce deck as needed, seal crawl space and do measures to eliminate moisture and mold.

The purpose here is not to get the lowest total (which the R/E agents, sellers, would find more attractive), but the middle to high estimates, because in the long run, after purchasing the house, it is you who will have to foot the bill. Of course, things can be done for less money, simple fixes etc, but at this point in the buying stage you want some really solid numbers to negotiate with.

It may be in your best interests to handle the estimates yourself.

Finally, if you begin to get the "feeling/intuition" that this home is going to be a "money pit", move on, find another. There's no sense purchasing a home and having it bug you forever. There doesn't have to be logic to it. If it doesn't "feel right" then listen to that as only you can judge that for yourself.

Good luck.
j :happy
Thanks for the suggestions and input. The intuition is kicking in already but I have no idea what the "norm" is and if I should be trusting my intuition given the lack of experience with buying/maintaining homes. I guess that's where experience helps.
Yes.
This is why you bring in your own "experts" to look at things and get their input. Contractors have no interest in selling you a home.
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Jags4186
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Re: Home buying

Post by Jags4186 »

Much of this depends on whether you’re in a buyers’ or sellers’ market. That said, old and working = buyer’s problem. Broken = seller’s problem.

When you looked at the house you should have been paying attention to things like how old the HVAC system is, how old the boiler is, how old the water heater is (the dates are written on the outside of the units), how old the roof is, etc. All of these things should have been taken into account in your offer. Of course, all of those things may have been taken into account when the seller’s put the house on the market. Was the house priced lower than seemingly similar homes on the market? When you write the sellers with a list of asks you’ll get answers like “there is no problem with XYZ, it functions properly”, “roof doesn’t leak”, etc. You’ll likely get good results asking them to fix things that are obviously broken or non functioning.

My very limited experience tells me that all houses will have some pretty significant expenses associated with them. There will be plenty of things you inspector either didn’t find, or will break the second you move in.

Be prepared.

Just a personal story: we had a house we had an offer accepted on that had an awful inspection. We ended up backing out of the offer. The 2nd house we looked at had an A+ inspection (we knew going in we would replace the roof). In the 10 months we’ve lived here we’ve had the following expenses:

New roof & ceiling in porch: $8295
Cracked bay window replacement (bird? Rock? No one knows): $800
Indirect water tank started to leak: $2541

This is on top of quality of life purchases:

Furniture: $5000
Window treatments: $2500
Hardwood floors refinished: $4500
Paint (we painted some rooms): $700
New front door (old one would swell so much it was impossible to close when open, or if we did get it closed, it was impossible to open once shut. We literally ripped off the door handle trying to open it one day): $1500

And of course we have over $2000 spent at Home Depot and Lowe’s on just stuff.

We still need to replace two other exterior doors and have some landscaping work done as well. Plumber also suggested we put in a water softener because all of our faucets leak because of mineral build up. That’s going to be at least $2000 plus the cost to replace the leaking faucets.

It’s never ending!
Last edited by Jags4186 on Wed May 29, 2019 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
chevca
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Re: Home buying

Post by chevca »

That's a pretty small list after a 6 hour inspection on a 50 year old house, IMO. Seems like a pretty nice place!

I'd ask for the sell to fix the leaks and the non-functioning AC unit, or adjust the price accordingly and call it good. The rest sounds like you can live with it, fix later, or about to be expected on a 50 year old house.
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cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

chevca wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:44 am That's a pretty small list after a 6 hour inspection on a 50 year old house, IMO. Seems like a pretty nice place!

I'd ask for the sell to fix the leaks and the non-functioning AC unit, or adjust the price accordingly and call it good. The rest sounds like you can live with it, fix later, or about to be expected on a 50 year old house.
Well, this was just the highlights/big ticket items. There is a 91 page report from the inspector that has a lot of "small things" like hand rail not up to code, leaky and loose faucets, sink not draining, window siding with water damage, drain pipe plugged, garage door not opening, exposed vents in attic, etc etc etc . I say that in quotes because they seem small now and hopefully just require some handy repair but could easily add up over time.
barnaclebob
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

Nissanzx1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:05 am
barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of relatively minor issues. Getting 3 contractors out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents. These problems (plumbing, HVAC, crawlspace leaks, maybe the mold) probably average out to $5k each and don't need to be taken care of immediately aside from the AC before summer if its a hot climate.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doesn't mean its unsafe.
Minimum of 3. I bought a house in April actually. I had 5 bids for HVAC and 4 bids for roofing. Saved over $3000 on both jobs from next highest priced contractor. Don’t be lazy when it comes to bidding if you care about what things cost... Let all the vendors know they are competing.
That's completely unnecessary to actually buy the house. You don't need to know if a roof will cost 12k or 15k to go through with buying.

3 grand isn't worth the trouble to deal with 9 separate contractor appointments around here. That would be about 25 appointments to have 9 actually show up.
guy_incognito
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Re: Home buying

Post by guy_incognito »

Just wanted to share my experience with mold... I am in the process of selling a house where some mold was found in the attic. I lived in the house for 20 years and if I wasn't selling I would MAYBE have done something about it eventually - didn't seem like a big deal to me. However, remediation estimate was sufficiently high (above $2,500) that the buyer could walk under our contract. I paid $4,200 to fix it, somewhat grudgingly but it total certainty that it is the right move. The reason is that as a seller, the last thing you would ever want is to have your house come back on the market because it has a mold problem. You have to disclose it. The next buyer to come along will adjust the purchase price down by an order of magnitude that is way bigger than the cost to fix with an existing buyer. A Your seller should remediate the mold before closing and provide confirmation that they have done so. They have every incentive to do so and keep you as a buyer at your current purchase price.
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:15 am
chevca wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:44 am That's a pretty small list after a 6 hour inspection on a 50 year old house, IMO. Seems like a pretty nice place!

I'd ask for the sell to fix the leaks and the non-functioning AC unit, or adjust the price accordingly and call it good. The rest sounds like you can live with it, fix later, or about to be expected on a 50 year old house.
Well, this was just the highlights/big ticket items. There is a 91 page report from the inspector that has a lot of "small things" like hand rail not up to code, leaky and loose faucets, sink not draining, window siding with water damage, drain pipe plugged, garage door not opening, exposed vents in attic, etc etc etc . I say that in quotes because they seem small now and hopefully just require some handy repair but could easily add up over time.
With this new info it and for this house it boils down to: Are you DIYers that enjoy researching and working on house projects or do you have a whole lot of money? If you don't enjoy working on houses or don't have the money to pay for someone else to do it then you are going to be unhappy. If you go ahead with it, you'll want to use your energy and motivation to knock out as many projects as possible before the new homeowner high wears off in about 6 months.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Home buying

Post by quantAndHold »

If it a buyer’s market, I would negotiate a price reduction for fixing the most expensive problems.

If it’s a seller’s market, I personally would walk away, having learned a lesson about spending at the top of my budget on a 50 year old house.

What you can ask for from the seller depends on whether the buyer or seller has the power in the negotiation, which depends on local conditions. You have a good realtor, right? What does that person say?
Nissanzx1
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Re: Home buying

Post by Nissanzx1 »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am
Nissanzx1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:05 am
barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:39 am People telling you to get 3 estimates haven't bought a house in over 2 decades I'm guessing. Its just not practical to do that when buying a house for these types of relatively minor issues. Getting 3 contractors out in a week when you a house is nearly impossible let alone trying to coordinate that with the sellers and agents. These problems (plumbing, HVAC, crawlspace leaks, maybe the mold) probably average out to $5k each and don't need to be taken care of immediately aside from the AC before summer if its a hot climate.

Sounds like you can let the deck part go and fix that yourself if you decide to. Just because a deck doesn't have joist hangers or something like that doesn't mean its unsafe.
Minimum of 3. I bought a house in April actually. I had 5 bids for HVAC and 4 bids for roofing. Saved over $3000 on both jobs from next highest priced contractor. Don’t be lazy when it comes to bidding if you care about what things cost... Let all the vendors know they are competing.
That's completely unnecessary to actually buy the house. You don't need to know if a roof will cost 12k or 15k to go through with buying.

3 grand isn't worth the trouble to deal with 9 separate contractor appointments around here. That would be about 25 appointments to have 9 actually show up.
Oh we had already bought it. We buy as is.

We bought a new water heater and put all new windows in the home with the savings. It was worth it to us. It takes me quite awhile to earn that kind of money at work, every penny counts..
barnaclebob
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Re: Home buying

Post by barnaclebob »

Nissanzx1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:45 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am That's completely unnecessary to actually buy the house. You don't need to know if a roof will cost 12k or 15k to go through with buying.

3 grand isn't worth the trouble to deal with 9 separate contractor appointments around here. That would be about 25 appointments to have 9 actually show up.
Oh we had already bought it. We buy as is.
Then your advice/story does not apply to this thread.
Nissanzx1
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Re: Home buying

Post by Nissanzx1 »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 4:11 pm
Nissanzx1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 3:45 pm
barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 am That's completely unnecessary to actually buy the house. You don't need to know if a roof will cost 12k or 15k to go through with buying.

3 grand isn't worth the trouble to deal with 9 separate contractor appointments around here. That would be about 25 appointments to have 9 actually show up.
Oh we had already bought it. We buy as is.
Then your advice/story does not apply to this thread.
OP can judge that for their situation. They did reply “Good Advice, Thanks” earlier.

While getting several bids might be annoying for the RE agents involved, it could mean the difference between the OP getting or loosing out on a given property. Someone taking the easy way out with only one bid could be unnecessarily giving up on a property that could have otherwise worked for them.

The OP stated this property was on the upper end of their buy budget. Every penny counts when every penny counts.
Colorado14
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Re: Home buying

Post by Colorado14 »

Here's a tangent from the topic at hand: There are some great usernames on these forums; OP's username is one of the best. I wish I had thought of it!

Now I'm hungry. :-)
jharkin
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Re: Home buying

Post by jharkin »

Nothing there sounds huge, remember the inspectors job is to find anything and EVERYTHING to give you a better negotiating position. They will find problems even in brand new construction.


1969 is not old. I’ve lived in houses well over a century older. 15 years is not old at all for well maintained HVAC. Mold as mentioned above is usually an overblown concern. There is not a “guarantee” of lead paint, it was banned in 1978 and the coming ban was known for years before that and use had already significantly declined. Even if there is lead paint it’s not hazardous unless disturbed, I raised my kids in an 18th century house and they always tested zero for lead. Just don’t let them eat the trim.

And the asbestos tape I assume is pipe insulation.Even though it was not banned yet I would not have expected it in a house that recent. You can have it removed or encapsulated, shouldn’t be that expensive.
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cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

Colorado13 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:26 pm Here's a tangent from the topic at hand: There are some great usernames on these forums; OP's username is one of the best. I wish I had thought of it!

Now I'm hungry. :-)
Haha, that was the wife’s doing
Topic Author
cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

So update for ya’ll and let me know what you think:

After speaking with the realtor, she also felt that the inspection wasn’t bad for the age of the home. I’m thinking we get back to the renegotiating table in light of the new info: (replace AC unit, encapsulating crawl space mold remediation, deck reinforcement), we ask the seller to cover the closing cost (approx $18k) and drop the price 10k and we take care of it all. That should get us through repainting the walls, restaining the hardwood floors, and some of the above which are prudent right off the bat. The rest we tackle on our own and over time. Not sure if the sellers will go for it and if they don’t then we walk away. It still puts us a little above budget but doable. Thoughts? Thanks
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cookiesncream
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Re: Home buying

Post by cookiesncream »

jharkin wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:28 pm Nothing there sounds huge, remember the inspectors job is to find anything and EVERYTHING to give you a better negotiating position. They will find problems even in brand new construction.


1969 is not old. I’ve lived in houses well over a century older. 15 years is not old at all for well maintained HVAC. Mold as mentioned above is usually an overblown concern. There is not a “guarantee” of lead paint, it was banned in 1978 and the coming ban was known for years before that and use had already significantly declined. Even if there is lead paint it’s not hazardous unless disturbed, I raised my kids in an 18th century house and they always tested zero for lead. Just don’t let them eat the trim.

And the asbestos tape I assume is pipe insulation.Even though it was not banned yet I would not have expected it in a house that recent. You can have it removed or encapsulated, shouldn’t be that expensive.
Thanks for the input
Daryl
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Re: Home buying

Post by Daryl »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:16 pm we ask the seller to cover the closing cost (approx $18k) and drop the price 10k
Having never gone through the process myself, this seems like a fairly steep price reduction (almost $30K?). If I was in the seller's shoes, I doubt that I'd give that much of a price concession unless it represented a immaterial percentage of the value of the home.
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msi
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Re: Home buying

Post by msi »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:16 pm So update for ya’ll and let me know what you think:

After speaking with the realtor, she also felt that the inspection wasn’t bad for the age of the home. I’m thinking we get back to the renegotiating table in light of the new info: (replace AC unit, encapsulating crawl space mold remediation, deck reinforcement), we ask the seller to cover the closing cost (approx $18k) and drop the price 10k and we take care of it all. That should get us through repainting the walls, restaining the hardwood floors, and some of the above which are prudent right off the bat. The rest we tackle on our own and over time. Not sure if the sellers will go for it and if they don’t then we walk away. It still puts us a little above budget but doable. Thoughts? Thanks
I would walk. The issues aren't unusual, but if that much of a reduction still puts it above or at the high end of the budget, it's best to move on.

Inspectors always miss something or other, too.
bloom2708
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Re: Home buying

Post by bloom2708 »

These are not the droids house you are looking for...

I would move on. Many houses out there.
brajalle
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Re: Home buying

Post by brajalle »

Lots of good info up above. I just wanted to add that a good rule of thumb I've found is to be able to put 1% of purchase price aside each year for house expenses. It's been good advice for us.
DoTheMath
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Re: Home buying

Post by DoTheMath »

barnaclebob wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:29 am
cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:15 am
chevca wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:44 am That's a pretty small list after a 6 hour inspection on a 50 year old house, IMO. Seems like a pretty nice place!

I'd ask for the sell to fix the leaks and the non-functioning AC unit, or adjust the price accordingly and call it good. The rest sounds like you can live with it, fix later, or about to be expected on a 50 year old house.
Well, this was just the highlights/big ticket items. There is a 91 page report from the inspector that has a lot of "small things" like hand rail not up to code, leaky and loose faucets, sink not draining, window siding with water damage, drain pipe plugged, garage door not opening, exposed vents in attic, etc etc etc . I say that in quotes because they seem small now and hopefully just require some handy repair but could easily add up over time.
With this new info it and for this house it boils down to: Are you DIYers that enjoy researching and working on house projects or do you have a whole lot of money? If you don't enjoy working on houses or don't have the money to pay for someone else to do it then you are going to be unhappy. If you go ahead with it, you'll want to use your energy and motivation to knock out as many projects as possible before the new homeowner high wears off in about 6 months.
Completely agree. We bought an older house and we've both done quite a bit of DIY as well as put a fair bit of money into it. Certainly more time and money than we would have guessed from the inspection.

You should assume the inspectors report is not a complete list. When you start tackling things on the list you will inevitably uncover additional projects.

If you're at the top of your budget, I'd walk away. The only reason our house has not been a big source of stress is our willingness to DIY plus buying much less than we could afford.

The good news is with Youtube videos it is way easier to DIY than it was in the pre-internet days. It's pretty easy to find easy-to-follow guides which give you a good sense if a project is something you're willing and able to do. You can save yourself a lot of money and headaches if you're willing to dive in and work on these things yourself.

Also, a word of warning: your real estate agent only gets paid if and when you buy a house. They have strong incentives to encourage you to close on a house. I would take their advice with a huge grain of salt. Similarly, many house inspectors depend on recommendations from realtors and have incentive to not blow up deals.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir
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JoeRetire
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Re: Home buying

Post by JoeRetire »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 9:16 pm After speaking with the realtor, she also felt that the inspection wasn’t bad for the age of the home. I’m thinking we get back to the renegotiating table in light of the new info: (replace AC unit, encapsulating crawl space mold remediation, deck reinforcement), we ask the seller to cover the closing cost (approx $18k) and drop the price 10k and we take care of it all. That should get us through repainting the walls, restaining the hardwood floors, and some of the above which are prudent right off the bat. The rest we tackle on our own and over time. Not sure if the sellers will go for it and if they don’t then we walk away. It still puts us a little above budget but doable. Thoughts? Thanks
Don't put yourself over budget.

It is inevitable that something unexpected will need to be replaced/repaired.
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ENT Doc
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Re: Home buying

Post by ENT Doc »

Don’t get advice from the realtor. Do your own research. Perhaps consider getting recs from them but that’s about it.

If the purchase price would strain your budget already I’d do an actual tally of the problem items (you list others I’d be concerned about too) and rank things from urgent/safety/important concerns to cosmetic/non-urgent. Put a dollar value next to each after doing your own research. You’d be surprised how a little fix here and another there add up. That’s all after-tax cash flow too. If you can divert the flooring budget ($15k) to the urgent/important things I would consider buying if you’re in a competitive market and you like the house. 1969 isn’t old.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Home buying

Post by DanMahowny »

cookiesncream wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am Hi all,

We put an offer down on our first home and it was negotiated and accepted. Its at the top of our budget. It’s an old home (1969) and we just had an inspection done. Being a first time home buyer, I didn’t know what to expect but the inspection was 6 hours long (I was there for all of it) and pretty overwhelming.

Major issues are: HVAC unit is 16 years old and one of the AC units is not working at all. Water heater is 15 years old. Inspector found 2 active leaks in the crawl space and old cast iron piping which he recommends need to be scoped. Crawl space has opening to the outside and the inside. Deck is poorly structured and needs reinforcements. Lastly, there is presence of mold in the crawl space and basement) and asbestos tape. I’m sure there is lead too (we have a 2.5 year old). Radon testing results pending.

Both wife and I loved the home but are now really concerned. Any ideas what the above would budget to? We are still in the due diligence period and thinking about pulling out before we put more money in. Any other advice. We’re pretty lost. Thanks
Lots of problems, and yet "both wife and I loved the home" . . . . I'd hate to read about a home you guys hate. :happy

Seriously, I'm sure there are many positives, but I'd walk away from this one. Keep looking man. Lots of homes out there.

Also, nice inspection. 6 hours. My home inspection was probably an hour or two.
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knowledge
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Re: Home buying

Post by knowledge »

I've only done 3 closings myself, so I'm sure others have more experience to offer, but from what I have learned, this is par for the course.

The next steps are for you to list all the issues back to the seller and look for them to remediate and/or provide credits to do so. It helps to be as specific as possible, providing the report with pictures and outlining concerns. Remember, you're still negotiating, and lots of "accepted offers" can fall through. Don't negotiate against yourself, let the seller come back to you.

It sounds like you still have time. If you love the home, don't pull out until you get feedback from what the seller is willing to do. If it's a buyer's market, the seller may be willing to cover all the repairs. Once you get the seller's feedback, then decide if you want to walk.
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