is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

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goru1
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is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by goru1 »

i am asking this for a young person.

is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application?

most of the future grade honors and AP has b in honors as prerequisite.
the a/e doesn't make one eligible for most of the future grade honors and AP.

common data set:

very important
rigor of secondary school

9th grade:

english honors B
spanish honors B
world history honors B
geometry honors B
biology honors B

or

english accelerated A
spanish accelerated A
world history accelerated A
geometry accelerated A
biology accelerated A

weighted gpa chart:

Grade (H) (A/E) (CP) (CP1)
A+ 5.00 4.50 4.00 3.50
A 4.75 4.25 3.75 3.25
A- 4.50 4.00 3.50 3.00
B+ 4.25 3.75 3.25 2.75
B 4.00 3.50 3.00 2.50
B- 3.75 3.25 2.75 2.25
(H)=Honors (including A.P. courses)
(A/E)=Accelerated/Enriched
(CP)=College Prep
(CP1)=College Prep1

thanks,
Last edited by goru1 on Mon May 27, 2019 9:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
imyeti2
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Re: is A in a/e better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by imyeti2 »

If you post using a clear subject, you may get better responses. a/e was somewhat cryptic for me.
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Kenkat
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by Kenkat »

What is the weighted GPA for a B in an honors course? If it is 4, you are better off with the A in the accelerated course, which awards a 4.5 if I am seeing it correctly.

I probably recommend the student take the highest course level they qualify for and try for an A. The premise that if you could get an A in an accelerated course, you’d probably get a B in the honors course is probably pretty weak.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by TomatoTomahto »

If I read your OP correctly, and they are interested in a school that considers HS course rigor very important, suggest they take the most rigorous course. Assuming a B in that course as opposed to an A in a less rigorous course means that, to be blunt, they perhaps are not a fit for that UG school, have a lack of confidence in their ability, or are unwilling to make the commitment to extra work.
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random_walker_77
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by random_walker_77 »

wow, I didn't realize gpa grade inflation had spread to the high school level. Where even in non-ap classes, a B is a 3.5, and an A is 4.25?!?

Some schools go strictly by a formula using test scores and gpa. In this school, a B in the honors/AP is equal to an A- in the regular accelerated class. And it looks like the CP classes are more remedial in nature as a full A gets you much less than a 4.0?

From that standpoint, I suppose it depends on difficulty -- how hard is it to get a B in the honors class?

Now, from a purely academic standpoint, your child should evaluate what they can handle. Especially for cumulative subjects like Math, it's better to take a slower pace and fully master it, rather than a faster-paced class where they end up with deficits of understanding.
random_walker_77
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by random_walker_77 »

oh, and if they're applying to a top-tier competitive institution that takes a holistic view of applications, admissions is going to want to see that the student has taken the most rigorous courses available to them.
DarthSage
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by DarthSage »

Go for the harder courses. The student may surprise him/herself. Also, if the courses are honestly too difficult, he/she can step down a notch in future years. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Spirit Rider
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by Spirit Rider »

DarthSage wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 9:23 am Go for the harder courses. The student may surprise him/herself. Also, if the courses are honestly too difficult, he/she can step down a notch in future years. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
This is not necessarily good advice. High School students are under tremendous stress these days from all directions. They can also have a tremendous need for parental approval (even if not apparent). Some will strive under excessive stress, but many will buckle and even break under the workload, never hinting that they are drowning.

I think far too many parents are too goal oriented for their children. They don't listen/observe well enough or often enough to see what they might be doing to them. Healthy, happy and reasonably accomplished high school graduation is the goal, not getting into the best university or college. Here is a newsflash!, your children's high school years should also be about fun! Taskmaster parents can be as harmful to a child's well being as neglectful parents.

Too many parents treat their children's lives as a do over.
Bacchus01
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by Bacchus01 »

Many Universities no longer accept weighted grades. University of Wisconsin is one of them.

They specifically told me they look at course rigor and test scores above all else. Actual GPA and class rank are well down the list.

A B in an honors/AP course is way better than an A in a standard course. Those were the words of two different admittance counselors.
quantAndHold
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by quantAndHold »

I assume by the question that the kid isn’t trying to get into an Ivy. Either of those paths will get the kid into State U just fine.

If it were my kid, I would encourage them to get in the AP track for the couple of subjects they like the best. Getting A’s in those classes will give them some more GPA juice, and help them avoid a couple of intro classes in college.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
NotWhoYouThink
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

For a highly competitive university, the correct answer is that it takes an A in the honors course. For most of the rest it won't matter.

At my niece's high school graduation this week, 100 of the 500 graduates had a weighted GPA of 4.0 or higher.
btenny
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by btenny »

The highest and hardest classes are the best selection IF the student can keep up and do the work. The kid will learn the most. BUT beware if the student is getting a C or even a low B in this hard class they should probably go back to the easier class. Also beware that many high school AP classes are not that advanced. The student will probably still need to take college level classes.

Also beware of hard selective high schools if you are thinking about future college. Many kids at hard schools get good grades. So when it comes time to apply for college a 4.4 GPA from a very hard school is probably not that advanced. Many of the really smart kids get a 4.5 or better GPA. So a 4.4 GPA may only get you into the top 20% or so of the graduating class at a really hard school.

And colleges now days only want to admit student who graduate in the top 5% to 10% of their class. So in some college application and scholarship situations it is better to be a good student in a average school with a 4.2 GPA and be in the top 5% of your class.

Good Luck.
stoptothink
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by stoptothink »

NotWhoYouThink wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:55 am For a highly competitive university, the correct answer is that it takes an A in the honors course. For most of the rest it won't matter.

At my niece's high school graduation this week, 100 of the 500 graduates had a weighted GPA of 4.0 or higher.
I went to my cousin's graduation a year ago, she was one of 17 valedictorians. I wish I was joking.

Dad is a professor at local U, so she didn't apply anywhere else, but her ACT was 27; she was not getting into any elite university.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by TomatoTomahto »

stoptothink wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 2:10 pm
NotWhoYouThink wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:55 am For a highly competitive university, the correct answer is that it takes an A in the honors course. For most of the rest it won't matter.
At my niece's high school graduation this week, 100 of the 500 graduates had a weighted GPA of 4.0 or higher.
I went to my cousin's graduation a year ago, she was one of 17 valedictorians. I wish I was joking.
Dad is a professor at local U, so she didn't apply anywhere else, but her ACT was 27; she was not getting into any elite university.
I read about some high school, iirc in Oregon, that had 50+ Val’s. It’s become a joke. No wonder colleges ignore it now.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
GCD
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by GCD »

At my kids' HS, a B+ average is 50th percentile, A- is 75th percentile, A+ is top 10% and you need way above an A+ due to weighted grades to be in the top 1%. It's good to check on these things. I had to ask a guidance counselor for the stats since they aren't published anywhere. You and your kid might be cruising along thinking with a mix of As and Bs they are doing good, when that performance is very unimpressive.
ks289
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by ks289 »

The point scale you’ve presented gives clear values for the grades at the different levels. An A in accelerated is worth 4.25 vs B in Honors is worth 4. This suggests what other posters have stated that a B is likely below average in many classes. It is clear that given the choice between these two outcomes, one should probably prefer an A in accelerated over a B in honors.

Colleges probably would agree. Even though colleges are looking for students to challenge themselves, this really assumes that one is not going to perform below average in those rigorous classes. That is counterproductive in my opinion if one consistently is at the B level with grades being higher these days.

The expected value is another story. One needs to decide based on the prior experiences of students in those classes, overall course workload, subject strengths/weaknesses, and other factors which outcome is more likely given a roughly equal amount of effort. It makes little sense to work harder for a worse outcome unless you are definitely establishing a pattern and foundation for the future, rather than digging yourself a hole.
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by bsteiner »

NotWhoYouThink wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 10:55 am For a highly competitive university, the correct answer is that it takes an A in the honors course. For most of the rest it won't matter.

At my niece's high school graduation this week, 100 of the 500 graduates had a weighted GPA of 4.0 or higher.
About 20 years ago the Stanford brochure said that people often ask whether they would prefer the student who took the harder class and got a B or the student who took the easier class and got an A. They said they wanted the student who took the harder class and got an A.
GCD wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 3:17 pm At my kids' HS, a B+ average is 50th percentile, A- is 75th percentile, A+ is top 10% and you need way above an A+ due to weighted grades to be in the top 1%. It's good to check on these things. I had to ask a guidance counselor for the stats since they aren't published anywhere. You and your kid might be cruising along thinking with a mix of As and Bs they are doing good, when that performance is very unimpressive.
Times have changed. When I was in high school (at a good suburban public school), the grading was from 0 to 100, with a 65 required to pass. Typically the 90th percentile was around a 90 average, the 75th percentile was around an 85 average and the 50th percentile was around a 77 average. They had an honor roll each quarter which required a 95 average for first honors and a 90 average for second honors. Fewer than 10 students in the entire school got first honors in any given quarter.

SAT scores were on the same 200 to 800 scale, but there weren't very many scores over 700.
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goru1
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by goru1 »

most of the future grade honors and AP has b in honors as prerequisite.

the a/e doesn't make one eligible for most of the future grade honors and AP.
lazylarry
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by lazylarry »

I think sometime college admin boards say one thing and do other things. From my small sample size, I've seen that a better grade looks better than a worse grade,irrespective of the level. Also, the admin does not (usually) know that the honors class is or is not available - they don't have extended periods of time to figure this out. Thus, my guess is if it says accelerated and you are from a smaller high school, then the A will look better. If there are multiple applicants from your school and your school is well known by the admin board, then perhaps the B in a better class will look better.
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toofache32
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by toofache32 »

What's the difference between honors and accelerated? You didn't define this or maybe I missed it.
Thegame14
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by Thegame14 »

all that matters is GPA, ranking among class, and how good HS is. So a 4.0 ranking 3rd in your class of 300 and a top 100 HS, is better than a 4.2 but 75th out of 100 at a non top 100HS. or something similar, so since you cant change HS, and the rank is affected by GPA, all that matters is the higher GPA. Then if schools have ties, it comes down to recommendations, essay's, extra curricular, then maybe they will look at the individual classes taken.
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snackdog
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by snackdog »

Best is to get an A in all courses.
rj342
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Re: is A in accelerated better than B in honors for undergrad application.

Post by rj342 »

snackdog wrote: Tue May 28, 2019 10:43 am Best is to get an A in all courses.
:oops:
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