Retirement home property - select good, better, best?

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Kayakr
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Retirement home property - select good, better, best?

Post by Kayakr » Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm

Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?
Last edited by Kayakr on Wed May 15, 2019 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sandtrap
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Location: Hawaii😀 Northern AZ.😳 Retired.

Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Sandtrap » Tue May 14, 2019 8:39 pm

Hawaii.
Outer Islands.
IE: Waikaloa on the Big Island of Hawaii.
IE: Makawao on Maui
IE: Hawaii Kai on Oahu

rj342
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by rj342 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm

In CONUS, Florida Panhandle, far cheaper than south FL, beaches as nice or nicer than much of south FL.
Less Third World feel, fewer of the more obnoxious Yankee ex-pats (no offense).

Pensacola to Fort Walton, Destin, toward Panama City. Plenty of places in between where you can avoid concrete beachfront highrise condo jungle.
Too much further east and you get into the swampy elbow of the state.

Do have to have hurricane insurance of course.

PNS is a great cheap smaller non-hub airport w lots of direct flights.
Last edited by rj342 on Tue May 14, 2019 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tibbitts
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by tibbitts » Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Kayakr wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm
Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?
What is a coastal pond lot?

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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by z3r0c00l » Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm

When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
Last edited by z3r0c00l on Tue May 14, 2019 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chevca
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by chevca » Tue May 14, 2019 9:05 pm

Kayakr wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm
Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?
Best, no doubt. You've earned it. If affordability isn't a concern, go for it.

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Watty
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Watty » Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 pm

Two things to think about;

1) Access to medical care. I know someone that retired on the Oregon coast near a small town with some doctors and a small hospital so they were OK for normal care or small emergencies. It became an issue when they had something like a shoulder or knee problem. They ended up having to drive two hours inland over a mountain range to see a specialist, drive back a few days later for an MRI, drive back for outpatient surgery then spend a night or two in a hotel until they were up to the two hour drive home, and then drive back for follow up appointments. They did get lucky and they found a physical therapist to help with the recovery near where they lived. Some of the trips inland required overnight stays in hotels because they had early appointments.

They realized that this would not work well when they were older so they moved to an area with better medical care.

2) How will it work when you have to give up driving? In addition to day to day problems some areas can be socially isolating when you give up driving. In some areas you may not be able to get a taxi or Uber so those may not be an alternative.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by jabberwockOG » Tue May 14, 2019 9:42 pm

z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm
When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
100% agree. Low lying coastal property buyer beware.

megabad
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by megabad » Tue May 14, 2019 10:03 pm

I would want to live in a state with no income tax during retirement. There are only 8 of these (ok 7.5). Of these, only Alaska, Florida, Texas, and Washington are on the coast (unless you count lakes/rivers). I am not living in Alaska for obvious reasons (sorry Alaskans). Florida has unbelievably high property costs and too many hurricanes (and high insurance costs). That leaves Texas and Washington. In retirement I need to be close to expert medical treatment and a major airport. In Washington, this likely means Seattle area. Seattle is...an experience...to live in. Unbelievably expensive and crowded. This leaves Texas. Houston area has good hospitals and a major airport. Moderate cost of living. Somewhat shielded from hurricanes. This puts me someplace like Galveston or similar. :D

22twain
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by 22twain » Tue May 14, 2019 11:12 pm

megabad wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:03 pm
Houston area has good hospitals and a major airport. Moderate cost of living. Somewhat shielded from hurricanes. This puts me someplace like Galveston or similar. :D
Seems to me that Houston tends to flood a lot when it rains a lot, though. (not just in hurricanes)
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

megabad
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by megabad » Tue May 14, 2019 11:18 pm

22twain wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 11:12 pm
megabad wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:03 pm
Houston area has good hospitals and a major airport. Moderate cost of living. Somewhat shielded from hurricanes. This puts me someplace like Galveston or similar. :D
Seems to me that Houston tends to flood a lot when it rains a lot, though. (not just in hurricanes)
True. Unfortunately, I have not found too many coastal areas that are not close to sea level and prone to flooding :D In fact, I am not sure that I can think of one major urban area on the coast in the US that hasn't seen major flooding relatively recently.

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Watty
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Watty » Tue May 14, 2019 11:28 pm

megabad wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:03 pm
I would want to live in a state with no income tax during retirement. There are only 8 of these (ok 7.5). Of these, only Alaska, Florida, Texas, and Washington are on the coast (unless you count lakes/rivers). I am not living in Alaska for obvious reasons (sorry Alaskans).
Here in Georgia after the age of 65 there is a retirement income exclusion of $65K($130K for a couple) that is in addition to not taxing Social Security.

Some of the coastal areas and islands are really nice, and there are also a lot of lake homes that might be an option.
... coastal pond lot...
In the south these would likely include alligators. :D

time>money
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by time>money » Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am

You might want to consider Vancouver, WA. It is right next to Portland, so good medical care, but much more affordable.

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tennisplyr
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by tennisplyr » Wed May 15, 2019 6:31 am

Where I live not only is coastal property much more expensive, it's much more crowded with people and cars...not for me.
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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DanMahowny
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by DanMahowny » Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 am

z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm
When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
Predictions like this one have failed repeatedly. Chicken Little.
Funding secured

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed May 15, 2019 7:14 am

Kayakr wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm
Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?
Totally subjective. Cost is only one variable. There are thousands more, and each are valued different by everyone.

We are considered retirement locations. For example, Charleston or in-land on a lake? Charleston has hurricanes and tides. In-land lake has neither. Charleston has many locations where boat can be within minutes in a slip, and you could have great ocean views without a slip. On a lake, we wouldn't settle for a view without a slip.

Many threads like this, on many forums. Make your own list of pros and cons.

Recent article indicated much increased SHARK threat on the Cape. Put that on your list. No sharks on lakes...
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Wed May 15, 2019 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jabberwockOG
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by jabberwockOG » Wed May 15, 2019 7:25 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm
When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
Predictions like this one have failed repeatedly. Chicken Little.
Chicken Little should consider learning how to swim.

smitcat
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by smitcat » Wed May 15, 2019 7:26 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm
When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
Predictions like this one have failed repeatedly. Chicken Little.
Agreed - also there is more residential flooding inland than near the coast. If you are looking near the coast then google and use the "SLOSH MAP 2" to get data on how any coastal area will do with variable hurricane intensities - you can vary this and see yourself.
If natural disasters are an item on your list please also research : earthquake, sink holes, tornados, inland flooding, tsunamis, landslides, ARk rains, etc.
Good luck with your search

ohai
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by ohai » Wed May 15, 2019 7:49 am

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:45 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:04 pm
When picking out a tax haven state away from dem yanks, I would suggest you avoid the areas prone to flooding. Coastal homes in general are very exposed and that problem will continue to get worse. 500 year floods should be expected every few decades going forward. Cape cod and barrier islands along the East Coast have the same problem and it is considerable. And this isn't just the opinion of scientists and other experts. If you know someone at a large insurance firm, ask them how many climate modelers they have on payroll and what they think the prospects of insuring coastal homes are for the next 50 years.
Predictions like this one have failed repeatedly. Chicken Little.
While I don't think that coastal areas are in imminent danger of sinking into the ocean, it's reasonable to account for future flooding risk when considering multi decade decisions. Most people will agree that there is some long term trend with respect to rising sea levels. Unless the base trend reverses, it's not unreasonable to be concerned about rising insurance or flood protection costs. It's just part of due diligence. Even if you decide it doesn't matter later, you still need to check.

With respect to OP original question, I think this got misinterpreted. He is asking which home in Cape Cod you would choose. Anyway, I think it is a weird question, because if he specifies the condition of 100% financial success rate, you would obviously be skewed towards expensive options. Even when choosing location, I'm sure more people would move to Honolulu over Arizona or something if they were guaranteed to be able to pay for expenses.

"Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?"

smitcat
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by smitcat » Wed May 15, 2019 8:38 am

Kayakr wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:30 pm
Location at coastal retirement home locations such as cape cod. a 2k square foot home on great waterfront would be a million, premium pond type lot 800k and basic smaller lot 600k. What would you go for assuming pension and the rest of the portfolio should more than sustain expected expenses?
We would go for the great waterfront so we could also use a boat there - YMMV dependent upon your exact desires.

Glockenspiel
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed May 15, 2019 9:26 am

This is why inland lake homes are the sweet spot. You can have a fantastic lifestyle playing golf, cruising your boat around your lake, sunbathing on the beach, fishing (if that's your thing), great views from your home, have little to no risk of flooding, as most lake homes have sufficient elevation above the lake, and the cost is much lower than a home on the coast.

smitcat
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by smitcat » Wed May 15, 2019 9:37 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:26 am
This is why inland lake homes are the sweet spot. You can have a fantastic lifestyle playing golf, cruising your boat around your lake, sunbathing on the beach, fishing (if that's your thing), great views from your home, have little to no risk of flooding, as most lake homes have sufficient elevation above the lake, and the cost is much lower than a home on the coast.
With the variable water level in lakes around this area (NE) it has not been the case.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:56 am

Glockenspiel wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:26 am
the cost is much lower than a home on the coast.
I just searched lakefront on Sunapee. Cheapest home listed is $1,950,000.
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Kayakr
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by Kayakr » Wed May 15, 2019 11:22 am

100% agree. Low lying coastal property buyer beware.
Yes, totally agree, but... New England is very different from the majority of coastal island (e.g. sandbar and marsh) areas along the rest of the east and gulf coasts. The glacial deposited dunes of cape cod are up to 100 feet high and erode at known rates, and unlike almost all of the rest country, due to the national seashore there will be high quality beach there (not just seawall, riprap and debris) in a century and at least some parking possible.

I have seen numerous million dollar homes listed for sale though that are 5-10 feet from an eroding beach bank. So the last fool is trying to get out and hoping for a greater one. Many homes are also built in flood areas, typically older smaller stuff. There are houses built to close to the water or on low lying land, but also opportunities in better protected and higher areas. Yes, ponds are going up in utility because the sharks are here to stay. I kayak surf which is a bit better protected :-)

In Rhode Island, there's a fair amount of low lying beach area and rebuilds are put on concrete pillars with "blow out" first floor garages to help protect against storm surge. You'd still be taking a lot of storm risk though because flood insurance is expensive and has benefit limits. Unfortunately in many places there, the beaches there are eroding into existing homes, seawall and parking lots, so access and beach quality are big issues in the 50 year timeframe.

Good comments about aging in place. Healthcare and support are issues than need to be balanced. Some towns are almost 1/3rd retirees and have low property taxes.

blackcat allie
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Re: Retirement home location, good, better, best

Post by blackcat allie » Thu May 23, 2019 10:13 am

rj342 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm
In CONUS, Florida Panhandle, far cheaper than south FL, beaches as nice or nicer than much of south FL.
Less Third World feel, fewer of the more obnoxious Yankee ex-pats (no offense).
No/minimal offense taken at the obnoxious Yankee ex-pats (I can own that) but the "Less Third World feel" is rather racist/xenophobic imho
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