B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

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vtMaps
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Location: central Vermont

B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by vtMaps » Tue May 07, 2019 10:54 am

I just got an email from bhphotovideo.com introducing their "Payboo" credit card. If you live in a State with sales tax and charge your purchase on this credit card, they will instantly issue you a credit for the amount of the sales tax. In Vermont, that would be a 6% savings. Of course, I would be forgoing any rewards that I might accrue with one of my other credit cards.

--vtMaps
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

graeme
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by graeme » Tue May 07, 2019 12:19 pm

That's an interesting business model for a credit card. Unfortunately, my state isn't eligible.

DetroitRick
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Location: SE Michigan

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by DetroitRick » Tue May 07, 2019 12:42 pm

Didn't really want another card, but with the 6% I'd be getting, it would be hard to say no. I've used BH for years, but have been increasing my purchases there for a while. Plan to apply in a few days, after I find out from them which credit bureau they use (so I can just unfreeze one vs. all).

Interesting approach for an online retailer (plus the NY store, of course) - I give them credit for doing it.

THY4373
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by THY4373 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:41 pm

I guess if you buy a lot at B&H and live in a high tax state maybe it is worth it but this certainly wouldn't be worth a credit pull to me. I'd really run the math on this and compare to the signup bonus you could get elsewhere. That said I am all for interesting new angles on credit cards.

Bob Sacamano
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Bob Sacamano » Tue May 07, 2019 7:47 pm

read something about how the bank they've linked up with is known for predatory practices and has a 29.99% APR.

retire2022
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Location: NYC

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by retire2022 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:56 pm

Op I live in NYC, this seems like a legal scam others who know the law may want to chime in, not sure since they admitted that commence taxation went all the way to the Supreme Court and lost.

Here is the text in case anyone wanted to see:

Hello,

Nobody likes to pay sales tax! Fortunately, B&H has a solution!

Our solution is named Payboo!

Today we’re introducing the B&H Payboo credit card*. Use Payboo and save the tax — you pay the tax, and we pay you back instantly! When you make any taxable purchase at B&H with Payboo, you receive an immediate, instant reward equal to the sales tax you paid. And at B&H, instant means instant — no expiring points, credits, or coupons to worry about. It’s that simple. (Note: B&H will collect and remit state sales tax in accordance with state sales tax laws and regulations.)

Nearly one year ago, the Supreme Court ruled that out-of-state retailers must collect sales tax on internet sales. This impacted B&H and our customers throughout the country. For 46 years, B&H has been committed to providing unparalleled value and customer service, so we came up with Payboo to eliminate the impact of sales tax for our customers.

We know you have many choices where to buy creative tech gear, and we truly appreciate your business. With Payboo, we believe B&H will become an even clearer choice for all your technology needs. Please visit us today and start saving!

Thank you,


article on Supreme Court ruling:

https://reason.com/2019/03/19/the-supre ... -tax-ruli/

mpsz
Posts: 374
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by mpsz » Tue May 07, 2019 8:09 pm

retire2022 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:56 pm
Op I live in NYC, this seems like a legal scam others who know the law may want to chime in, not sure since they admitted that commence taxation went all the way to the Supreme Court and lost.
How is this a scam? It's a rewards credit card, same as every bank offers.

retire2022
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Location: NYC

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by retire2022 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:16 pm

mpsz wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:09 pm

How is this a scam? It's a rewards credit card, same as every bank offers.
The state may come after you for tax owe, or like another poster said, the credit card could be predatory.

click on the Reason article, didn't want to make my post political..

Winston19
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Winston19 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 pm

retire2022 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:16 pm
mpsz wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:09 pm

How is this a scam? It's a rewards credit card, same as every bank offers.
The state may come after you for tax owe, or like another poster said, the credit card could be predatory.

click on the Reason article, didn't want to make my post political..

Pretty sure the tax is still getting paid by B&H they are just giving you a credit back for that amount.

inbox788
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by inbox788 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:46 pm

Winston19 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 pm
Pretty sure the tax is still getting paid by B&H they are just giving you a credit back for that amount.
They can call it whatever they want and so can the states. A rebate, kickback, refund, reimbursement, rewards, bonus, points, etc. It all looks the same too me. Airline miles, credit card points, product rebates, reward sites, etc. are all the same game, so they'll have to deal with all same legal issues and precedents.

There is a lot of fine print, and I'm sure they had some lawyers look over it. It's probably looks more complicated than it is, but I assume you get back in points based on whatever zip code you put in their tool.
‡B&H Payboo Card tax-equivalent loyalty reward offer is valid on all NYC SuperStore purchases and online and by-phone orders based on customer’s ship-to address, and subject to state eligibility (check here). Entire purchase must be made with the B&H Payboo Card to qualify for this offer. If a portion of the purchase is paid for with another form of payment (e.g., cash, another credit card, or a gift card), it will not be eligible for this offer. Changing shipping address at checkout may alter the B&H Payboo Card loyalty reward value. This loyalty reward offer does not apply to gift cards or other tax exempt purchases. B&H reserves the right to alter, amend or terminate this offer at any time.

B&H will collect and remit the requisite state and local sales/use tax on all taxable purchases based on the retail price paid by the customer in jurisdictions where B&H is required to collect and remit sales/use tax. B&H collects and remits sales/use tax in New York for purchases received at our NYC SuperStore, or at the order shipping address for non-NYC SuperStore purchases made in or shipped to jurisdictions where B&H is required to collect and remit sales/use tax. When you pay for your entire B&H purchase with the B&H Payboo Card, B&H will issue a loyalty reward in the form of a credit directly on your purchase order, invoice and/or receipt (i.e. this is not a refund or reimbursement of the sales/use tax paid). The loyalty reward is issued based on the cardholder's purchases paid for with the B&H Payboo Card after collection and remittance of the legally-required sales/use tax in your respective purchase or ship-to jurisdiction in accordance with applicable state and local law.

The tax-equivalent loyalty reward offer is not valid in Alabama, District of Columbia, Indiana, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming. If shipping to these jurisdictions, enter your shipping zip code here to check for available Payboo Card savings.

The tax-equivalent loyalty reward offer is not available on orders shipped to any jurisdiction that does not require B&H to collect and remit state and/or local sales or use tax (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Montana, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia, as of May 1, 2019).
I don't understand the difference between "not valid" and "not available". I tried a couple of zip codes in each and it came back 6% Vermont and 7% Indiana, while not available in Florida and Massachusetts.

It's a novel approach with limited benefit, since only a few high sales tax states benefit most. They either cut their margins a little in those states, or they have to raise the prices elsewhere to compensate. I think it's too complicated to be sustainable, and it won't last very long.

michaelingp
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by michaelingp » Tue May 07, 2019 9:01 pm

I would not call it a "credit card" in the standard sense, since you can only use it to buy stuff from B&H. It's a convoluted method of getting non-tax state buyers to subsidize the discount for buyers in sales-tax states. I'd be kind of upset if I lived in a non-tax state. Fortunately, I almost never buy from B&H so it's moot for me.

Retired1809
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Retired1809 » Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 pm

Hard to find fault with this. Novel idea.

TravelGeek
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by TravelGeek » Tue May 07, 2019 10:19 pm

Retired1809 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 pm
Hard to find fault with this. Novel idea.
What's a sales tax? :D :(

The flaw IMO is very simply that it excludes a large portion of the population from a "loyalty reward offer" based on where they live, and for no good reason. Similarly, it makes the bonus of those eligible dependent on their sales tax rate. Makes little sense to me.

inbox788
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by inbox788 » Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 am

TravelGeek wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:19 pm
Retired1809 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:36 pm
Hard to find fault with this. Novel idea.
What's a sales tax? :D :(

The flaw IMO is very simply that it excludes a large portion of the population from a "loyalty reward offer" based on where they live, and for no good reason. Similarly, it makes the bonus of those eligible dependent on their sales tax rate. Makes little sense to me.
It’s been a long time since I took Econ 102, but they’re trying to avoid moving the demand curve caused by the increase in price from sales taxes. By moving their supply curve to compensate for the price changes, they hope to keep sales quantity unchanged. Unfortunately, these changes don’t happen in isolation, so other players are also impacted differently and their cost curve is negatively impacted. Those out of state players that aren’t playing these games should expect their tax advantage in some states to go away and sales volumes decrease. In some cases, they can lower price, but many of the products they sell are governed by Minimum Advertised Price restrictions. Amazon has a lot of experience and data on this when they became instate sellers a while ago, and is likely a beneficiary from forcing others to play by the same rules. In fact, there are so many rules from every state and locality that smaller players have no choice but to use a 3rd party to figure out sales tax rules. Your neighbors might be paying a different rate than you for any number of local boundary changes.

Free shipping and standard shipping fees are similarly unlinked to actual costs and distances or delivery difficulties, but were gotten used to them and different companies have adopted workable fees. Customers mainly care about total cost they pay, not the individual prices, but free tax and free shipping are simpler. If you look on eBay, same total price but low price and high shipping fee are much less common practice and tax included is similarly desirable.

Topic Author
vtMaps
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Location: central Vermont

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by vtMaps » Wed May 08, 2019 4:11 am

inbox788 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 am
Amazon has a lot of experience and data on this when they became instate sellers a while ago, and is likely a beneficiary from forcing others to play by the same rules.
When shopping online, I very often find that B&H and Amazon have the exact same price. I think this Payboo thing is about trying to undercut amazon in states with sales tax.
inbox788 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 am
If you look on eBay, same total price but low price and high shipping fee are much less common practice
I would like to see lower price and higher shipping... sales tax applies to the merchandise and not the shipping.

--vtMaps
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

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Rob5TCP
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Rob5TCP » Wed May 08, 2019 9:30 am

I buy frequently from B&H. Whether it's enough of a "rebate" to open another card is a different issue.
I agree, this makes no sense. Since pricing is so easy to check, they can not raise overall prices to compensate.
IS this just a sales plan to take sales away from Amazon (which is fine with me).

Also, why this credit card is not useful anywhere else is beyond me. Where do they make up some
of the 8.75% "rebate" I would get for NYC sales tax?

AMX has a blue card, which though $95 per year gives 6% back on all grocery purchases. Not sure
where AMX makes there money here either.

TravelGeek
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by TravelGeek » Wed May 08, 2019 9:35 am

michaelingp wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:01 pm
I would not call it a "credit card" in the standard sense, since you can only use it to buy stuff from B&H. It's a convoluted method of getting non-tax state buyers to subsidize the discount for buyers in sales-tax states. I'd be kind of upset if I lived in a non-tax state. Fortunately, I almost never buy from B&H so it's moot for me.
To sort of quote some post on dpreview, they probably assume they can recover the cost of the sales tax-sized rebate through

- interest collected from those who buy on credit (30% - ouch!)
- reduced credit card merchant fees

whether that is enough to cover the up to 10% some in CA will get I don’t know.

TheOscarGuy
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed May 08, 2019 10:10 am

vtMaps wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:54 am
I just got an email from bhphotovideo.com introducing their "Payboo" credit card. If you live in a State with sales tax and charge your purchase on this credit card, they will instantly issue you a credit for the amount of the sales tax. In Vermont, that would be a 6% savings. Of course, I would be forgoing any rewards that I might accrue with one of my other credit cards.

--vtMaps
It does not make sense to open a new card for me. I do buy from them, but not as much to justify opening a card just to get the credit for sales tax.

inbox788
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by inbox788 » Wed May 08, 2019 2:42 pm

vtMaps wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:11 am
inbox788 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 am
Amazon has a lot of experience and data on this when they became instate sellers a while ago, and is likely a beneficiary from forcing others to play by the same rules.
When shopping online, I very often find that B&H and Amazon have the exact same price. I think this Payboo thing is about trying to undercut amazon in states with sales tax.
inbox788 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:58 am
If you look on eBay, same total price but low price and high shipping fee are much less common practice
I would like to see lower price and higher shipping... sales tax applies to the merchandise and not the shipping.

--vtMaps
They've been undercutting Amazon ever since Amazon was required to collect sales taxes and B&H not. Similar to when Amazon was undercutting local B&M stores. These new requirements to collect sales tax is going to hit them one way or another. This program keeps the appearance to the customer the same and tries to maintain the status quo, so their sales doesn't suffer, but at a cost to their bottom line. They may hope to recoup some of the costs via the program the same way rebates are often denied, but that's not good business or by charging high interest, but I'm guessing most of the customers who use the program will be more savvy. Doing nothing means that they'll lose some business to Amazon and others for price sensitive customers.

Why aren't there sellers selling $1 items and charging $99 shipping? Similar strategies were tried to get around anti-scalping ticket laws, where you get free tickets to a popular event if you bought a token something for a high price. Some places tax shipping and handling now, so it doesn't matter. It's a constantly changing game.

DetroitRick
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by DetroitRick » Sun May 12, 2019 4:14 pm

My first experience with this new card today was a good one. Application was easy, as was first use of new card on BHPhoto.com. My order was processed with online price plus 6% state sales tax, minus an immediate card "rebate" of 6%. Item ordered was exact same price at several online competitors (both of which would also charge 6% tax), so it was a true net savings to me of exactly 6% this time.

So I applied for the Payboo card online today just in advance of placing a BHPhoto order. Unfroze one credit file immediately before applying (I picked Transunion because I had heard that this was the primary bureau used by Synchrony, the Payboo card issuer). Then completed Payboo card application online from BH site. After completing the simple online form (name, address, phone, monthly income, social security number), I was instructed to call Synchrony to complete application. Customer Rep noted my credit freeze, confirmed they can pull from any of 3 bureaus, then re-checked Transunion report while I waited (they clarified that they can use any of the 3 bureaus), and completed approval. Had I waited a few more minutes between unfreezing and applying, I could have skipped that step.

In the end, it was painless and only took 5 minutes from application to first use. The Synchrony Rep gave me my new card number to use while awaiting physical card via mail. Immediately placed BHPhoto order, entered new card number, and got my first rebate.

One data point. But I don't see any "gotchas" yet. Other than the high interest rate for those who would carry a card balance. And a sorta dorkey card name... The biggest value in all this was in testing, for the first time, my credit freeze and the unfreeze procedures/timing. All were as fast and easy as I had heard they would be. At least in my Transunion test.

retire2022
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by retire2022 » Sun May 12, 2019 4:27 pm

Detroitrick thanks for being the subject tester

Topic Author
vtMaps
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Location: central Vermont

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by vtMaps » Sun May 12, 2019 4:54 pm

DetroitRick wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 4:14 pm
My order was processed with online price plus 6% state sales tax, minus an immediate card "rebate" of 6%. Item ordered was exact same price at several online competitors (both of which would also charge 6% tax), so it was a true net savings to me of exactly 6% this time.
I'm glad it worked out for you. For me it would be a 1% savings. I have a USBank credit card that gives 5% cashback at electronics stores. An extra 1% discount on my occasional electronics purchases is not enough for me to open another credit card. Also, if I were buying electronics I might want to use a credit card that extends the warranty.

--vtmaps
The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true. --James Branch Cabell

retire2022
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by retire2022 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:39 pm

OP and all

Crains New York just reported that NYS Attorney General Letisa James is charging B&H failed to collect sales tax

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/retail-ap ... -least-73m?

Trader Joe
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Trader Joe » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:42 pm

vtMaps wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:54 am
I just got an email from bhphotovideo.com introducing their "Payboo" credit card. If you live in a State with sales tax and charge your purchase on this credit card, they will instantly issue you a credit for the amount of the sales tax. In Vermont, that would be a 6% savings. Of course, I would be forgoing any rewards that I might accrue with one of my other credit cards.

--vtMaps
Great. Thank you very much for posting.

seymore92
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:16 am

Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by seymore92 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:00 pm

retire2022 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:39 pm
OP and all

Crains New York just reported that NYS Attorney General Letisa James is charging B&H failed to collect sales tax

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/retail-ap ... -least-73m?
It's a bit more complex - NYS alleges they should have collected sales tax on manufacture instant rebate amounts

Workable Goblin
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Re: B&H Photo will pay your sales tax [payboo]

Post by Workable Goblin » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:06 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:30 am
AMX has a blue card, which though $95 per year gives 6% back on all grocery purchases. Not sure where AMX makes there money here either.
Merchant fees and interest on balances, especially merchant fees. There's a reason why Amex is famous for not being accepted at as many places as other cards.

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