Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
TN_Boy
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by TN_Boy » Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
TN_Boy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:27 am
NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:51 am
The one thing retirees who never spent much money and have more than they (think they) need should start getting ready for is the need to spend money to maintain their independence. When you get older and weaker and sicker, it's hard to keep the house clean and in good repair, hard to take care of the lawn, do the laundry, drive to all the many doctor appointments, shop for and prepare food....

You have a few choices. You can hold on to all your "unneeded" money and expect your kids, neighbors, whoever to help you with the above. You can let your house and yard deteriorate around you and order pizza a lot.

You can move to senior living community, where your expenses will be higher but these services will be provided, at additional cost.

You can pay for the lawn service, cleaning service, Uber, shopping and meal prep.

It's nice to think that we'll stay healthy and independent in our long since paid-for homes until one day we drop dead, just like it's nice to think we could just leave our cars parked in our driveway with the keys inside and expect it to still be there tomorrow. But adults plan for real life not fairy tales. So when you talk to your friends or parents who think they won't ever increase their spending, ask how they'll take care of the rising cost of aging.
That's an interesting point. The more "active" retirees, which spend a little more on non-essentials, can probably shift some of their spending when the need for more help arrives. The extremely frugal ones may find it more difficult to open the purse strings a bit, since they are not substituting, but adding costs.

But from what I've seen of elderly relatives and elder parents of friends, there is a strong tendency to deny that additional help is needed, and in fact things like home maintenance can suffer. An associated reluctance to pay for help is very common, regardless of financial situation. Along with constant complaints about how expensive everything is ..... Add in some cognitive decline and it becomes a vexing problem.

It is something to be planned for. Then the planning doesn't matter because the aging person refuses to admit that there is actually a problem ... (okay it isn't always that bad).
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
Yes, hopefully as my ability to do things decreases, my awareness of new limitations will have me asking for the appropriate help and minimizing the burden on family and neighbors. With a plan in place ahead of time.

But when even minor cognitive decline sets in, people do odd things.

MarkerFM
Posts: 170
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by MarkerFM » Thu May 02, 2019 1:31 pm

We won't have pensions, but will collect a little social security. Our taxable portfolio, throws off plenty of money to live very comfortably, which we do.

We have about 10% of net worth in tax deferred accounts, about half of that in Roths. We will never need this and have set it up that all tax deferred funds will go to charities when we die. We have been helping our kids a bit, and will probably help more as we see how they are doing managing money. When we die, they will be beneficiaries of trusts that will give them very comfortable lives.

We could spend more, but really already live how we would like. Ramping it up to the next level (another house, private jet travel) would use up more of the money, but we aren't comfortable with that.

Ybsybs
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by Ybsybs » Thu May 02, 2019 1:51 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
Yes, hopefully as my ability to do things decreases, my awareness of new limitations will have me asking for the appropriate help and minimizing the burden on family and neighbors. With a plan in place ahead of time.

But when even minor cognitive decline sets in, people do odd things.
When I've observed 'how much things cost' type complaints and asked follow up questions, the answers thus far in my experience have all been ultimately complaints about inflation. Things DO cost significantly more for the same value when compared to the prices ten or twenty years prior. Initial (useful) attempts to not purchase poor value eventually ends up as (limiting) unwillingness to pay even a below market rate.

I don't have a solution yet for how to prevent myself from also developing this common issue.

Smoke
Posts: 474
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:45 pm
Location: Saturn

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by Smoke » Thu May 02, 2019 2:02 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:27 am
NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:51 am
The one thing retirees who never spent much money and have more than they (think they) need should start getting ready for is the need to spend money to maintain their independence. When you get older and weaker and sicker, it's hard to keep the house clean and in good repair, hard to take care of the lawn, do the laundry, drive to all the many doctor appointments, shop for and prepare food....

You have a few choices. You can hold on to all your "unneeded" money and expect your kids, neighbors, whoever to help you with the above. You can let your house and yard deteriorate around you and order pizza a lot.

You can move to senior living community, where your expenses will be higher but these services will be provided, at additional cost.

You can pay for the lawn service, cleaning service, Uber, shopping and meal prep.

It's nice to think that we'll stay healthy and independent in our long since paid-for homes until one day we drop dead, just like it's nice to think we could just leave our cars parked in our driveway with the keys inside and expect it to still be there tomorrow. But adults plan for real life not fairy tales. So when you talk to your friends or parents who think they won't ever increase their spending, ask how they'll take care of the rising cost of aging.
That's an interesting point. The more "active" retirees, which spend a little more on non-essentials, can probably shift some of their spending when the need for more help arrives. The extremely frugal ones may find it more difficult to open the purse strings a bit, since they are not substituting, but adding costs.

But from what I've seen of elderly relatives and elder parents of friends, there is a strong tendency to deny that additional help is needed, and in fact things like home maintenance can suffer. An associated reluctance to pay for help is very common, regardless of financial situation. Along with constant complaints about how expensive everything is ..... Add in some cognitive decline and it becomes a vexing problem.

It is something to be planned for. Then the planning doesn't matter because the aging person refuses to admit that there is actually a problem ... (okay it isn't always that bad).
I am in the OP's situation as well. 14 yrs retired and have not touched my retirement funds.

As far as the discussion as to one's health declining or being interrupted I can agree with that also.
Having always done everything myself, decks, home remodeling, car repair etc...
Almost 2 years ago I blew out my lumbar, now I KNOW I can't do any of that much anymore and am glad of the cushion those dusty accounts offer.
Now If I could only be satisfied with hiring anyone to do stuff to my satisfaction.... :?
Arguing for the sake of arguing is something I am not going to engage in.

jbranx
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by jbranx » Thu May 02, 2019 2:08 pm

{I deleted posts that contained a personal attack. Reminder, Forum Policies, linked above on every page, require respect for others. Do not repeat/quote or reply in kind to an offensive post. Simply report the offending post to the Moderators.} Moderator Jbranx

TN_Boy
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by TN_Boy » Thu May 02, 2019 3:53 pm

Ybsybs wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:51 pm
TN_Boy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
Yes, hopefully as my ability to do things decreases, my awareness of new limitations will have me asking for the appropriate help and minimizing the burden on family and neighbors. With a plan in place ahead of time.

But when even minor cognitive decline sets in, people do odd things.
When I've observed 'how much things cost' type complaints and asked follow up questions, the answers thus far in my experience have all been ultimately complaints about inflation. Things DO cost significantly more for the same value when compared to the prices ten or twenty years prior. Initial (useful) attempts to not purchase poor value eventually ends up as (limiting) unwillingness to pay even a below market rate.

I don't have a solution yet for how to prevent myself from also developing this common issue.
I think you are right, it is inflation, or rather, lack of understanding inflation, and I have never been able to successfully explain that "yes, item X" costs more, but your investments have tripled in value since way back when. And your SS is indexed to inflation.

And .....it doesn't help. They just get anchored on what item X cost back in 19whatever and can't get past that.

I tend to get anchored on what things cost when I first moved out and was on my own, mostly because I have vivid memories of those costs versus my salary then. But I understand what I'm doing and can compensate. Hopefully I'll keep on being able to do that.

NotWhoYouThink
Posts: 2736
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:19 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Thu May 02, 2019 4:18 pm

Spend your time focusing on the future not the past. If you are anchored in the past (what things cost then, what you could do then) it's hard to adjust to changes. Get out, look forward, think ahead. Listen to your kids and grandkids.

At least that's my plan to avoid the fate of sitting around in a deteriorating structure refusing to spend money even though it is available.

TN_Boy
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by TN_Boy » Thu May 02, 2019 4:52 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:18 pm
Spend your time focusing on the future not the past. If you are anchored in the past (what things cost then, what you could do then) it's hard to adjust to changes. Get out, look forward, think ahead. Listen to your kids and grandkids.

At least that's my plan to avoid the fate of sitting around in a deteriorating structure refusing to spend money even though it is available.
Don't tell us. Give the message to aging relatives with cognitive decline and many physical ailments.

And if you find a way to make this message stick, do let us know! (Truly not trying to be snarky, but many people age "badly" and their loved ones find it almost impossible to change mindsets).

RadAudit
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by RadAudit » Thu May 02, 2019 9:07 pm

Not totally in your market segment. However, SS+pensions+RMDs are greater than SWRs. So, the excess is reinvested. The DW may need it if she lives long enough or the grandkids may need it for college. If not, whatever is left over, goes to the kids.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

nguy44
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:52 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by nguy44 » Sat May 04, 2019 12:38 am

If my retirement planning remains as it has gone (HA!), once we take SS, that plus pension will exceed our planned annual expenses. Throw in cash and income from taxable investments and it is likely we can choose not to touch my 401K. However, I have no regrets. Most of my contributions occurred when I was a higher tax bracket than I will be even when RMDs hit. Also I gained additional money from a very good corporate match that added to its balance.

We really did not miss the money, we lived comfortably (and were able to give generously) on a savings rate that usually was about 20%, and only fell to 10-15% during the years we paid for college for our kids. We had good family vacations every year, sometimes leveraged by aligning it with my business travel. A larger house (we are fine with ours at 3000+ square feet and an acre) also means more work to maintain, more heating/cooling bills, higher property taxes to pay. New cars would have had us worried about the first dent/scratch they would encounter. More food would have meant more weight gain. The *only* thing we might have missed was a chance to buy a vacation home in Ocean City in the late 90s for around $120K... we ran the numbers and financially we could afford it, but our savings rate would be lower than desired, we would have felt obligated to use it, and I do not have the will to be a landlord.

If I made a mistake, I am fine with making a mistake by having too much.

sil2017
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by sil2017 » Sat May 04, 2019 4:02 pm

deleted
Last edited by sil2017 on Sat May 04, 2019 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NotWhoYouThink
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:19 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sat May 04, 2019 4:21 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:52 pm
NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 4:18 pm
Spend your time focusing on the future not the past. If you are anchored in the past (what things cost then, what you could do then) it's hard to adjust to changes. Get out, look forward, think ahead. Listen to your kids and grandkids.

At least that's my plan to avoid the fate of sitting around in a deteriorating structure refusing to spend money even though it is available.
Don't tell us. Give the message to aging relatives with cognitive decline and many physical ailments.

And if you find a way to make this message stick, do let us know! (Truly not trying to be snarky, but many people age "badly" and their loved ones find it almost impossible to change mindsets).
It's too late for the aging relatives with cognitive decline. That's why I'm telling myself and my age cohort (60 somethings). So we don't do the same thing to our kids that our parents/in-laws are doing to us.

inbox788
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by inbox788 » Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
There's independent living and financial independence.

1. Uber
2. Hello Fresh, Freshly, Uber Eats, etc. https://www.self.com/gallery/10-healthy ... y-services
3. Gardening and snow service

These overall costs are often less than living in assisted living.

I've come to accept the patchwork of services we all depend on and it's not something that can be completely replicated everywhere. Those that have the relative, friends or means are lucky to have things taken care of, while some less fortunate will have to learn to do without some things. It can be a burden for some, but it's something we all deal with one way or another sometimes. Be grateful when you can carry the burdens and when someone is able to help you carry some. Technology is only a small part of the answer.

DrGoogle2017
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sat May 04, 2019 5:04 pm

inbox788 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
There's independent living and financial independence.

1. Uber
2. Hello Fresh, Freshly, Uber Eats, etc. https://www.self.com/gallery/10-healthy ... y-services
3. Gardening and snow service

These overall costs are often less than living in assisted living.

I've come to accept the patchwork of services we all depend on and it's not something that can be completely replicated everywhere. Those that have the relative, friends or means are lucky to have things taken care of, while some less fortunate will have to learn to do without some things. It can be a burden for some, but it's something we all deal with one way or another sometimes. Be grateful when you can carry the burdens and when someone is able to help you carry some. Technology is only a small part of the answer.
Yes, that’s my plan. In fact, much cheaper aging at home except maybe the last few years which probably is unavoidable.

panine
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by panine » Sat May 04, 2019 5:17 pm

prd1982 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:08 am
capitalhockey wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:25 am
His wife has nagged him over the years to loosen up the funds and to travel more & remodel kitchen.
That is sad and wrong. He must have missed the lecture about sharing financial decision making.
yes. it's her life, too. :(

User avatar
GerryL
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Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by GerryL » Sun May 05, 2019 2:41 pm

DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:04 pm
inbox788 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
There's independent living and financial independence.

1. Uber
2. Hello Fresh, Freshly, Uber Eats, etc. https://www.self.com/gallery/10-healthy ... y-services
3. Gardening and snow service

These overall costs are often less than living in assisted living.

I've come to accept the patchwork of services we all depend on and it's not something that can be completely replicated everywhere. Those that have the relative, friends or means are lucky to have things taken care of, while some less fortunate will have to learn to do without some things. It can be a burden for some, but it's something we all deal with one way or another sometimes. Be grateful when you can carry the burdens and when someone is able to help you carry some. Technology is only a small part of the answer.
Yes, that’s my plan. In fact, much cheaper aging at home except maybe the last few years which probably is unavoidable.
Check out the Village to Village network (https://www.vtvnetwork.org/) to see if one of these age-in-place volunteer organizations is operating where you live. The mission of each of these local membership orgs is to lend a hand to people who aim to age in their own homes. (Helping neighbors stay neighbors.)

I am both member and a volunteer in my local Village. Yesterday I went out with other volunteers to help members with spring cleaning tasks like window washing and gardening. On Thursday a couple of volunteers came to my house and helped me weed and prep a raised bed.

DrGoogle2017
Posts: 2528
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun May 05, 2019 3:00 pm

GerryL wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 2:41 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 5:04 pm
inbox788 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:31 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 10:00 am
It isn’t uncommon for an elder to be living in a long-time home and consider themselves independent, but:

1. A son is driving them to doctor’s appointment.
2. A daughter is bringing over dinner 3 nights a week.
3. A neighbor is cutting their lawn and shoveling snow.

Which the kids/neighbor may or may not be happy to do. But it does take them away from their own lives and may involve taking time off from work, not to mention expense. And the elder either feels entitled or doesn’t care about the imposition.
There's independent living and financial independence.

1. Uber
2. Hello Fresh, Freshly, Uber Eats, etc. https://www.self.com/gallery/10-healthy ... y-services
3. Gardening and snow service

These overall costs are often less than living in assisted living.

I've come to accept the patchwork of services we all depend on and it's not something that can be completely replicated everywhere. Those that have the relative, friends or means are lucky to have things taken care of, while some less fortunate will have to learn to do without some things. It can be a burden for some, but it's something we all deal with one way or another sometimes. Be grateful when you can carry the burdens and when someone is able to help you carry some. Technology is only a small part of the answer.
Yes, that’s my plan. In fact, much cheaper aging at home except maybe the last few years which probably is unavoidable.
Check out the Village to Village network (https://www.vtvnetwork.org/) to see if one of these age-in-place volunteer organizations is operating where you live. The mission of each of these local membership orgs is to lend a hand to people who aim to age in their own homes. (Helping neighbors stay neighbors.)

I am both member and a volunteer in my local Village. Yesterday I went out with other volunteers to help members with spring cleaning tasks like window washing and gardening. On Thursday a couple of volunteers came to my house and helped me weed and prep a raised bed.
We have one in our city. Our village is too new. But a lady in my bridge class just passed away at age 85, she was a benefit of this, a few ladies in our bridge club have helped her out, like driving to medical places for cancer treatment.

But I’m willing to pay for cleaning or anything else I need.

Luke Duke
Posts: 901
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:44 am
Location: Texas

Re: Questions for Folks that Does Not Need Their 401k/IRA Funds in Retirement

Post by Luke Duke » Mon May 06, 2019 3:10 pm

pdavi21 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:22 am
I spend about 12k per year and do everything everyone else does. There is very little difference between my lifestyle and someone who spends 100k or more.
You don't honestly believe this do you?

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