Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

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SoonerD
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by SoonerD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:49 am

Mike Scott wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:24 pm
If you believe the mantra of buy one year old and never compare their prices to new...
Mike, are you speaking for yourself; when you make major purchase decisions you have difficulty thinking for yourself and fall back on trite mantras? Or do you believe the rest of us are lacking critical thinking skills and thus need mantras to make decisions? I'll guess your going to claim that your comment isn't directed at yourself or others, instead it's a guess as to motivation of nobody in particular for such activity!

To the OP
, in 30 years I've purchased 5 new vehicles and 2 vehicles which were not more than 3-years old with (1st one) 30k and (2nd one) 17k miles. The used vehicles were both Toyota Camrys. The 1st purchase was significant savings off new price, I know what I paid but don't recall what new prices were back then. So to avoid challenges to my veracity I'll just leave as it was worth it to me. It was private party sale and I negotiated 20% off the original asking price. The 2nd deal was fair but not a significant win like the first one was; this was via a Honda dealer who took the Toyota as a trade-in. These transactions were 10 years apart.

My next Toyota I expect to get new, if I buy Toyota. But, I'm thinking of a luxury car and will probably look for 2-3 year old and compare it to new before making my decision. I won't rely on any mantras, in fact I don't know what the mantra is for the luxury make I'm considering.

I can afford any mass produced new car I want, but I consider each purchase decision separately. I did learn about "buying used" back when it was a larger discount for certain makes & models. With the ubiquitous leased cars on the market along with rental cars resales and the ongoing transition from sedans to crossovers it seems like there are great discounts for some and for others buying new is better. When I buy new I like to find a prior year leftover early in the new year. I have additional strategies I learned from a friend in the business to improve the chance I'll get a more eager sales manager.

Topic Author
Calico
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Calico » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:00 am

Thanks for the tips on going to car rental websites. Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry many hatchbacks (I need a hatch to carry my dog's kennel. I make a lot of road trips and take her with me and she needs to be in a kennel). I will keep looking though. I have time.

I already mentioned I was leery of buying from private sellers for personal safety reasons. There are too many weirdos out there and I've already had my fair share of run ins with too many of them. So that's not going to happen unless it's someone I know. The only person who has a car I would want to buy is my coworker with his Honda but I know he's not going to sell it. He's only had it two years and he kept his last one for 20 years until it was totaled (in the parking garage while parked no less).

carolinaman
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by carolinaman » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:07 am

Used cars usually are marked up a lot and if you are good at negotiating, you can get a good deal. Asking price can vary a lot, the true comparison is out the door price. There are some deals who have a no haggle policy for both new and used. That gives you a fair comparison of new vs used. My son recently bought a 2017 GMC 1500 pickup truck and got it for about $8k less than new. It only had 5k miles and had some nice added features and was a manufacturer CPO vehicle, providing better warranty than new. So sometimes it does make sense to buy a one year old vehicle.

TheOscarGuy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by TheOscarGuy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:26 am

Calico wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:00 am
Thanks for the tips on going to car rental websites. Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry many hatchbacks (I need a hatch to carry my dog's kennel. I make a lot of road trips and take her with me and she needs to be in a kennel). I will keep looking though. I have time.

I already mentioned I was leery of buying from private sellers for personal safety reasons. There are too many weirdos out there and I've already had my fair share of run ins with too many of them. So that's not going to happen unless it's someone I know. The only person who has a car I would want to buy is my coworker with his Honda but I know he's not going to sell it. He's only had it two years and he kept his last one for 20 years until it was totaled (in the parking garage while parked no less).
I am not a FB user, but I have had success with purchasing stuff from FB marketplace. I suspect it has to do with the fact that 'socially' they are known online, so if they mess up, it is almost like they mess up in real life :D Having said that, I sold my last car in 2014 through craigslist and I didn't have any issues with weirdos/shady characters.

dziuniek
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by dziuniek » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am

Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.

FireSekr
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by FireSekr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:31 am

SoonerD wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:49 am
Mike Scott wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:24 pm
If you believe the mantra of buy one year old and never compare their prices to new...
Mike, are you speaking for yourself; when you make major purchase decisions you have difficulty thinking for yourself and fall back on trite mantras? Or do you believe the rest of us are lacking critical thinking skills and thus need mantras to make decisions? I'll guess your going to claim that your comment isn't directed at yourself or others, instead it's a guess as to motivation of nobody in particular for such activity!

To the OP
, in 30 years I've purchased 5 new vehicles and 2 vehicles which were not more than 3-years old with (1st one) 30k and (2nd one) 17k miles. The used vehicles were both Toyota Camrys. The 1st purchase was significant savings off new price, I know what I paid but don't recall what new prices were back then. So to avoid challenges to my veracity I'll just leave as it was worth it to me. It was private party sale and I negotiated 20% off the original asking price. The 2nd deal was fair but not a significant win like the first one was; this was via a Honda dealer who took the Toyota as a trade-in. These transactions were 10 years apart.

My next Toyota I expect to get new, if I buy Toyota. But, I'm thinking of a luxury car and will probably look for 2-3 year old and compare it to new before making my decision. I won't rely on any mantras, in fact I don't know what the mantra is for the luxury make I'm considering.

I can afford any mass produced new car I want, but I consider each purchase decision separately. I did learn about "buying used" back when it was a larger discount for certain makes & models. With the ubiquitous leased cars on the market along with rental cars resales and the ongoing transition from sedans to crossovers it seems like there are great discounts for some and for others buying new is better. When I buy new I like to find a prior year leftover early in the new year. I have additional strategies I learned from a friend in the business to improve the chance I'll get a more eager sales manager.
Mike was obviously being sarcastic, implying that there’s no logical reason anyone would buy a used Honda/Toyota that’s less than 3 years old unless it was a steep discount. Clearly you have done well in finding good deals and in that case it’s worth it, but most of the time the prices of relatively new Japanese cars are too close to new. Clearly you didn’t pick up on his sarcasm.

Buying luxury cars slightly used is another story. They depreciate so much because of false belief they are money pits. Some are, but if you buy the right bmw (stay away from their v8 engines) or Audi they will be nearly as reliable as a Toyota. Check the reliability rankings over the last few years and you’ll see Audi and BMW ahead of Honda. Luckily many people foolishly hold onto the “break my wallet” mantra and that drives the prices on 3 year old BMWs to less than 50% of their original MSRP. If you find a good independent shop to do maintenance on a bmw it will also cost about the same as going to a Honda dealer. The Audi maintenance is definitely more expensive because they require more hours to do many of the same repairs. Their designs are based on FWD platforms and many of the components are harder to get to than BMW.

FireSekr
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by FireSekr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:46 am

Calico wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:00 am
Thanks for the tips on going to car rental websites. Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry many hatchbacks (I need a hatch to carry my dog's kennel. I make a lot of road trips and take her with me and she needs to be in a kennel). I will keep looking though. I have time.
I think you posted earlier you were considering a Mazda 3. Between that, the corolla and the Civic, the Mazda 3 is probably the best of them in terms of style, performance, comfort, and driving dynamics. They’re pretty damn reliable too maybe not the same as Toyota but not too far off. They also don’t quite hold their value as well as Honda and Toyota so you can likely get a great deal on a used one.

Another consideration. Mazda just released a completely new 3 (not sure it’s in showrooms yet but it’s on their website) That means they will be heavily discounting the older model to move them off the lot, so you can probably get a new one cheaper than you thought if you are okay with the prior generation. Or you may like the new one enough to spend a little extra $.

Whether you go with a new or used 3 you’ll have a great car. The civic is excellent as well. The corolla is complete garbage. It’s poor design with poor ergonomics, poor performance, incredibly cheap interior materials, a noisy unrefined 30 year old engine and transmission, and it’s resting on Toyota’s laurels and name recognition to sell. It’s reliable and that’s about it. The civic and Mazda 3 are nearly as reliable and so much more.

njdealguy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by njdealguy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:54 am

For a 3 year old car thats presumably off lease, I try to pay as close to the lease residual value as possible, so generally for Hondas/Toyotas no more than about 60% of the original sticker price. Did exactly that a year ago having bought a Honda Civic LX (2015 model purchased in 2018) with 22k miles for 12k plus NJ sales taxes from a local used car dealer, while the new car goes for about 19.5k sticker price. Now has about 45k miles and hardly any issues besides replacing 2 tires and the brake pads once.

THY4373
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by THY4373 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:03 am

For myself I only buy used cars (did buy one new one for my now ex). In general I have seen the same as OP, that late model used cars from major Japanese manufacturers are not a good buy to me. Depreciation is your friend when buying say a 3-5 year old car as you are buying as the depreciation curve begins to slow down (at least for non-Toyotas and Hondas). My strategy has been to buy domestic sedans that have average or better reliability but are "unpopular" and so depreciate. I also tend to buy one with higher miles. In general I buy a 3-5 year old domestic sedan with 70-90k miles on it. I'll drive it until it is 15-18 years old with likely 170-180k miles on it. It was worked great for me for several decades.

I bought an old rental 2000 Taurus Wagon in 2003. It would have cost about $15k new and I paid $5500 and it had about 60k miles (I was third owner and only about 20k of those miles were from it being a rental after that it looks like it was used as an HOV commuter car in the DC area). Drove until the engine imploded mysteriously while my now-ex was driving it. At that time it was 15 years old and had 170k on it. I got more than my money's worth out of that one. Other than the engine meltdown I didn't have to do much to it over the 110k miles I put on it. I don't believe the engine issue had anything to do with it being a rental.

Topic Author
Calico
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Calico » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:15 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:46 am
Calico wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:00 am
Thanks for the tips on going to car rental websites. Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry many hatchbacks (I need a hatch to carry my dog's kennel. I make a lot of road trips and take her with me and she needs to be in a kennel). I will keep looking though. I have time.
I think you posted earlier you were considering a Mazda 3. Between that, the corolla and the Civic, the Mazda 3 is probably the best of them in terms of style, performance, comfort, and driving dynamics. They’re pretty damn reliable too maybe not the same as Toyota but not too far off. They also don’t quite hold their value as well as Honda and Toyota so you can likely get a great deal on a used one.

Another consideration. Mazda just released a completely new 3 (not sure it’s in showrooms yet but it’s on their website) That means they will be heavily discounting the older model to move them off the lot, so you can probably get a new one cheaper than you thought if you are okay with the prior generation. Or you may like the new one enough to spend a little extra $.

Whether you go with a new or used 3 you’ll have a great car. The civic is excellent as well. The corolla is complete garbage. It’s poor design with poor ergonomics, poor performance, incredibly cheap interior materials, a noisy unrefined 30 year old engine and transmission, and it’s resting on Toyota’s laurels and name recognition to sell. It’s reliable and that’s about it. The civic and Mazda 3 are nearly as reliable and so much more.
I had the afternoon off and test drove everything today, new. Mazda 3 is my favorite (I drove a 2018 because I rather get that one and if I get used, it would be that design). And I think you are right on the Corolla. It felt cheap and tinny when I drove it (and it was noticeable smaller/less trunk space than the others).

My personal rankings:

#1 Mazda 3 (which I can get used for a great price too!) Loved the engine feel, driving feel, the stick was great, only bad thing was the screen position)
#2 Honda Civic. Also a nice feel, didn't have a stick to drive, but it's a CVT and more expensive.
#3 Subaru Impreza. A noticeable step down in feel and handling. Felt kind of spongy to me.
#4 Toyota Corolla. Tinny feeling and smaller than others in its class. I didn't like anything about it except the adjustable lumbar support in the seat.

Funny thing. All of the salesmen asked me what trim I was interested in and the Mazda guy even asked if I was interested in automatic or manual. The Toyota guy asked me what color I wanted. haha. Like the color matters. I still wouldn't have cared for he Toyota though. It just didn't have the handling and feel of my top pick.

azanon
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by azanon » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:59 pm

The worst 2 brands to buy almost new (especially Toyotas). They have incredibly high resale value, so you're going to pay almost new price for someone else's vehicle. Great brands but two times to buy them IMO are: 1. New 2. Several years old because you need to pay as little as possible for a car (for whatever reason), but you know these brands stand a good chance of having many years left due to their reliability. That's doubly true if the VIN starts with a J.

So the reverse is true - the cars to buy almost new are those that have poor reliability. Why? Well, resale values plummet on these brands for that reason. But if you have a very good mechanic that can check one out and ensure nothing's wrong, then the car might have made it past that most crucial early stage, and you might have a good car on your hands for many years that you got at a great discount.

tj218
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by tj218 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:58 pm

Didn't read the whole thread so this may have been mentioned, but one of the issues I find with 2-4 year old Honda & Toyotas is that on top of very little price savings if you plan to drive it into the ground is the fact that a lot of those coming off of lease vehicles are near the end of the life on tires and often need brake work done. That's another $600-800+ on top of the used sale price too. I would be highly irritated at having to sink in another $600 a few months into buying a newer model used car and not saving significantly.

I am sure there are some deals out newer used Honda's & Toyota's out there, in my experience in my region I didn't see any.

FireSekr
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by FireSekr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:41 pm

Calico wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:15 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:46 am
Calico wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:00 am
Thanks for the tips on going to car rental websites. Unfortunately, they don't seem to carry many hatchbacks (I need a hatch to carry my dog's kennel. I make a lot of road trips and take her with me and she needs to be in a kennel). I will keep looking though. I have time.
I think you posted earlier you were considering a Mazda 3. Between that, the corolla and the Civic, the Mazda 3 is probably the best of them in terms of style, performance, comfort, and driving dynamics. They’re pretty damn reliable too maybe not the same as Toyota but not too far off. They also don’t quite hold their value as well as Honda and Toyota so you can likely get a great deal on a used one.

Another consideration. Mazda just released a completely new 3 (not sure it’s in showrooms yet but it’s on their website) That means they will be heavily discounting the older model to move them off the lot, so you can probably get a new one cheaper than you thought if you are okay with the prior generation. Or you may like the new one enough to spend a little extra $.

Whether you go with a new or used 3 you’ll have a great car. The civic is excellent as well. The corolla is complete garbage. It’s poor design with poor ergonomics, poor performance, incredibly cheap interior materials, a noisy unrefined 30 year old engine and transmission, and it’s resting on Toyota’s laurels and name recognition to sell. It’s reliable and that’s about it. The civic and Mazda 3 are nearly as reliable and so much more.
I had the afternoon off and test drove everything today, new. Mazda 3 is my favorite (I drove a 2018 because I rather get that one and if I get used, it would be that design). And I think you are right on the Corolla. It felt cheap and tinny when I drove it (and it was noticeable smaller/less trunk space than the others).

My personal rankings:

#1 Mazda 3 (which I can get used for a great price too!) Loved the engine feel, driving feel, the stick was great, only bad thing was the screen position)
#2 Honda Civic. Also a nice feel, didn't have a stick to drive, but it's a CVT and more expensive.
#3 Subaru Impreza. A noticeable step down in feel and handling. Felt kind of spongy to me.
#4 Toyota Corolla. Tinny feeling and smaller than others in its class. I didn't like anything about it except the adjustable lumbar support in the seat.

Funny thing. All of the salesmen asked me what trim I was interested in and the Mazda guy even asked if I was interested in automatic or manual. The Toyota guy asked me what color I wanted. haha. Like the color matters. I still wouldn't have cared for he Toyota though. It just didn't have the handling and feel of my top pick.
Glad you got to try them out for yourself. There’s only so much about a car you can learn from spec sheets and looking at pics. Feeling it first hand and realizing how it makes you feel is more important than anything else.

I have driven the latest civic in stick and it’s one of the best shifters out there very nice feel. If you end up deciding to go with the Honda, don’t hesitate to get the manual if you can find one as they have done an amazing job with it.

Good luck!

cutterinnj
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by cutterinnj » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:15 pm

I bought my Lexus ES350 (essentially a fancy Camry) at 3 years old; basically almost 50% off, with 2.3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

Lexus seems to depreciate quicker than Toyotas the first few years.

California88
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by California88 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:30 pm

Calico, I just bought 2019 RAV4 LE yesterday. Worked through "Fleet Sales" of dealership (got idea from Bogleheads) - did most of transaction via email - they quoted me Invoice Price + $700 - the price they quoted never changed - no hassle transaction - they don't make their $ on individual sales - but on sales volume.
Initially wanted non turbo compact Toyota or Honda - but they all had low "Ground Clearances" - Civic has blind spots.
Next summer Toyota might be coming out with very cute Subcompact SUV called "FT-AC" (they showed it at NY Auto Show) but I couldn't wait that long - so went with RAV4.
I researched buying vehicles that were coming "off 3 year lease", etc. - but prices were too high and could come with problems - because vehicles are getting very complicated (they're like big computers). It's the first time I've bought new - but so thankful to have the 3 year Factory Warranty (and I got extended warranty)!

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munemaker
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by munemaker » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:16 am

In 2011, I bought a 2009 Honda CR*V EX-L with 32,000 miles on it. I think the out-the-door cost might have been $23,000. I bought it from a large, established used car dealer. Carfox shows it was previously owned by Enterprise. They do not rent Hondas, so I guess it was maybe a lease. Anyway, the car now has 237,000 miles on it. I have been very happy with it and would not hesitate to do it again when this one wears out.
Last edited by munemaker on Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dsmil
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by dsmil » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:07 am

I bought a 3 year old Prius (50k) miles for $14k, which is a lot lower than the new price.

dsmclone
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by dsmclone » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:11 am

cutterinnj wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:15 pm
I bought my Lexus ES350 (essentially a fancy Camry) at 3 years old; basically almost 50% off, with 2.3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

Lexus seems to depreciate quicker than Toyotas the first few years.
I think its luxury cars in general. Sounds like you made a good choice.

ester
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by ester » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:26 pm

kjvmartin wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:29 pm
ester wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:01 pm
I bought a 2017 Avalon in December 2017. It was a CPO with 24,000 miles. I paid $22,000, vs. $34,000 new, and got an extended warranty to 100,000 miles. No problems with the car at all.
Toyota dilutes their value a bit more than Honda by selling extensively to rental fleets. Also, 2017 Toyota's are woefully behind in technology.. No CarPlay option. Very good deals if you want a basic car, but not great if you want the latest in safety and infotainment.
True, Toyota sells to fleets, which does affect the resale value, and this is precisely the main reason I bought lightly used. I bought a 2000 Avalon in 2000, brand new, and paid more for that car than the slightly used Avalon in 2017. The 2017 has all the latest safety features except blind spot monitoring (this was available on the Limited). I am happy with my decision (I don't have to have Apple CarPlay).

BogleMelon
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by BogleMelon » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:33 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:09 pm
Any car that is traded at a year is either a lemon, or the buyer isn't bright. There is no reason to buy a 1 year old vehicle.

The only exception might be someone that gets great deals and flips cars, like a family member. We can buy a Ford for a great price, and have to hold it for 6 months. However, I have no desire to flip a car every 6 months to make a small amount of money.
Or a renter..
I bought a renter 2016 Mazda in 2017. I think it was a fair deal
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

xenochrony
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by xenochrony » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:06 pm

Interesting thread. I've had quite a different experience than many of the posters in this thread. I purchased a 4 year old CPO Honda Fit M/T 35% BELOW the price of an equivalent new Honda Fit. In my opinion, that was a huge discount over new, (the latter, which was well outside my budget). Regarding the point that one poster made indicating that such purchases commonly have hidden costs of having to put new tires and brakes shortly after purchase, I am now 2 years into my 4 year old FIT and have not had to replace either tires or brakes.

So, all in all, my 4 year old Honda purchase, seems to be (at 2 years post-purchase) an excellent deal. And I paid exactly what the dealer was asking for it, unable to negotiate down the price even with 100% of the purchase price in cash in my hand at the time. Part of this calculus may have been that it was M/T and the dealer had trouble getting rid of it? 99%+ of folks I know either dont know how to drive stick or dont want to. I love it.

psteinx
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by psteinx » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:22 pm

xenochrony wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:06 pm
Interesting thread. I've had quite a different experience than many of the posters in this thread. I purchased a 4 year old CPO Honda Fit M/T 35% BELOW the price of an equivalent new Honda Fit. In my opinion, that was a huge discount over new, (the latter, which was well outside my budget).
I am not blown away by a 35% discount on a 4 year old vehicle.

Of course, details matter. Was the mileage typical for 4 years, or high or low? Is the 35% discount in relation to a true typical (generally discounted) price that savvy new vehicle buyer would get, or only to MSRP?

But on the assumption that mileage was typical and you're comparing to a discounted new price, then getting a hair over a third off, on a vehicle that's 4 years old - meh. At 12-15K miles/year, a vehicle would have 48-60K miles at 4 years, and the reasonable life expectancy of such a vehicle, for someone NOT looking to nurse along an old beater in need of frequent repairs, might be 150-180K miles, 12-14 years or so. So you're getting just over a third off, for a vehicle that has about a third of its lifespan used up. And the third that you're missing was likely entirely/mostly under warranty, starting with wear items fresh.

Are you saving money under your scenario? Perhaps, but probably not too much, and possibly not at all.

xenochrony
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by xenochrony » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:44 pm

psteinx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:22 pm
xenochrony wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:06 pm
Interesting thread. I've had quite a different experience than many of the posters in this thread. I purchased a 4 year old CPO Honda Fit M/T 35% BELOW the price of an equivalent new Honda Fit. In my opinion, that was a huge discount over new, (the latter, which was well outside my budget).
I am not blown away by a 35% discount on a 4 year old vehicle.

Of course, details matter. Was the mileage typical for 4 years, or high or low? Is the 35% discount in relation to a true typical (generally discounted) price that savvy new vehicle buyer would get, or only to MSRP?

But on the assumption that mileage was typical and you're comparing to a discounted new price, then getting a hair over a third off, on a vehicle that's 4 years old - meh. At 12-15K miles/year, a vehicle would have 48-60K miles at 4 years, and the reasonable life expectancy of such a vehicle, for someone NOT looking to nurse along an old beater in need of frequent repairs, might be 150-180K miles, 12-14 years or so. So you're getting just over a third off, for a vehicle that has about a third of its lifespan used up. And the third that you're missing was likely entirely/mostly under warranty, starting with wear items fresh.

Are you saving money under your scenario? Perhaps, but probably not too much, and possibly not at all.
Mileage at purchase was 35000, reasonable life expectancy for a well cared for Fit can be >300,000 and that sir, is my plan. Calling it "nursing along an old beater" certainly does color this picture one particular way. Our family currently has a 20+ year old well-cared for vehicle with 250,000 miles (in addition to the Fit), and it performs extremely well with limited repairs required; I would hardly refer to that vehicle as "nursing along an old beater." But to each his own, my total lifetime (33 years of buying/selling) outlay for all vehicles has been extraordinarily low. This is predominantly due to buying quality used vehicles at a good price and holding onto them for a long long time.

FireSekr
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by FireSekr » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:44 pm

psteinx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:22 pm
xenochrony wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:06 pm
Interesting thread. I've had quite a different experience than many of the posters in this thread. I purchased a 4 year old CPO Honda Fit M/T 35% BELOW the price of an equivalent new Honda Fit. In my opinion, that was a huge discount over new, (the latter, which was well outside my budget).
I am not blown away by a 35% discount on a 4 year old vehicle.

Of course, details matter. Was the mileage typical for 4 years, or high or low? Is the 35% discount in relation to a true typical (generally discounted) price that savvy new vehicle buyer would get, or only to MSRP?

But on the assumption that mileage was typical and you're comparing to a discounted new price, then getting a hair over a third off, on a vehicle that's 4 years old - meh. At 12-15K miles/year, a vehicle would have 48-60K miles at 4 years, and the reasonable life expectancy of such a vehicle, for someone NOT looking to nurse along an old beater in need of frequent repairs, might be 150-180K miles, 12-14 years or so. So you're getting just over a third off, for a vehicle that has about a third of its lifespan used up. And the third that you're missing was likely entirely/mostly under warranty, starting with wear items fresh.

Are you saving money under your scenario? Perhaps, but probably not too much, and possibly not at all.
Yeah at 4 years old you should really be getting 50-55% off to make it worthwhile, at 35% off, I'd rather just by new keep it for 12 years and get rid of it than buying a 4 year old car keeping it 8 years and replacing it with another overpriced 4 year old car

protagonist
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by protagonist » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Hyundais and Kias depreciate much faster. You may be able to get a lot more for your money.

psteinx
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by psteinx » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:52 pm

xenochrony wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:44 pm
Mileage at purchase was 35000, reasonable life expectancy for a well cared for Fit can be >300,000 and that sir, is my plan.
If you plan to drive it to 300K+ miles, why not buy it 6/8/10 years old, with much more mileage, at a presumably smaller fraction of the price of new?

inbox788
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:25 am

psteinx wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:52 pm
xenochrony wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:44 pm
Mileage at purchase was 35000, reasonable life expectancy for a well cared for Fit can be >300,000 and that sir, is my plan.
If you plan to drive it to 300K+ miles, why not buy it 6/8/10 years old, with much more mileage, at a presumably smaller fraction of the price of new?
A new $30,000 car driven 300,000 miles would average $0.10/mile in capital/depreciation costs (less for the Fit). How much lower can you get it, and how many used cars are you talking about? 3 more or less? There's higher risk with each purchase that you get a dud and waste time and money, not that you might not a a lemon from the new car dealer, but IMO, the risk is far reduced. And older cars will have higher repair and maintenance costs to offset some of the capital cost benefits. Anyway, new, used or very used high mileage isn't going to differ all that much averaged out over 300,000 miles. I'd splurge and buy it new myself.

jharkin
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by jharkin » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:44 am

WhiteMaxima wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:53 pm
For japanese brand, buy 1 - 3 year won't save you a lot. 1st, they don't depreciate a lot, 2nd you cant finance at 0.9% low interest for 36 month or 1.9 for 60 months. But, you can get a good deal in CPO German vehicle or a used American vehicle. normally they lost 50% after 1st three years.
This is true. 10-15 years ago a 3 year old off lease Honda was a decent bargain... but now the discount is minimal... so we dont even bother to buy used anymore. Just buy new Honda/Toyota, pay cash and hold for 10 years. rinse & repeat.

themesrob
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by themesrob » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:49 am

CurlyDave wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:33 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:09 pm
Any car that is traded at a year is either a lemon, or the buyer isn't bright. There is no reason to buy a 1 year old vehicle.

The only exception might be someone that gets great deals and flips cars, like a family member. We can buy a Ford for a great price, and have to hold it for 6 months. However, I have no desire to flip a car every 6 months to make a small amount of money.
I think the largest source of late model used cars is car rental companies.

I remember reading years ago that this was a sore point with many dealers. Rental companies buy in bulk from the factory and can get very good prices.

I don't know what the story is now, but it used to be cheaper for the companies to sell the cars before the first service was due.
There are also programs at the car companies themselves. VW, for example, allows its employees to lease a new VW or Audi every 6-12 months at a low cost that includes registration/maintenance/insurance, so participation is (obviously) enormous. The employees then turn in the cars at the end of the lease for a new model, and the company sells them as used. The VW dealers in my area buy a ton of them from the company, and so you see a lot of CPO models from the previous year with 10-15k miles being advertised. (So I don't think the lemon-or-dumb-buyer dichotomy is entirely true.)

randomguy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by randomguy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:30 am

dziuniek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.
The question is how much you saved. Was it 10k or could you have gotten a new camry for 19k so your savings are more like 4500? My experience is that it is closer to 19k. Then you have to debate is 40k miles(2-3 years) work 4500 or not? For me that is a pretty close tradeoffs. I doubt I am saving or paying more than 1-2k either way.

pinhead
Posts: 130
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by pinhead » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:04 pm

You can get a 2018 camry for $15K++

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/ ... 11161.html

pinhead
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by pinhead » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:08 pm

randomguy wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:30 am
dziuniek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.
The question is how much you saved. Was it 10k or could you have gotten a new camry for 19k so your savings are more like 4500? My experience is that it is closer to 19k. Then you have to debate is 40k miles(2-3 years) work 4500 or not? For me that is a pretty close tradeoffs. I doubt I am saving or paying more than 1-2k either way.
In my situation, in 2009 I paid $17K out the door (taxes included) for a 2009 used camry that had 40K miles. Came with 100K mile warranty.
Brand new was $22,500 after taxes with 36K mile warranty. So for me, I saw it as $5,500 savings plus better warranty. I am still driving it today, and it has 120K miles. So I averaged out the miles to 12K a year.

randomguy
Posts: 8527
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by randomguy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:24 pm

pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:08 pm
randomguy wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:30 am
dziuniek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.
The question is how much you saved. Was it 10k or could you have gotten a new camry for 19k so your savings are more like 4500? My experience is that it is closer to 19k. Then you have to debate is 40k miles(2-3 years) work 4500 or not? For me that is a pretty close tradeoffs. I doubt I am saving or paying more than 1-2k either way.
In my situation, in 2009 I paid $17K out the door (taxes included) for a 2009 used camry that had 40K miles. Came with 100K mile warranty.
Brand new was $22,500 after taxes with 36K mile warranty. So for me, I saw it as $5,500 savings plus better warranty. I am still driving it today, and it has 120K miles. So I averaged out the miles to 12K a year.
It isn't a 5500 savings. It is 5500 dollar savings AND 3.5 years less use of the car. If you think you will get 200k out of the car, the new guy is paying
22,500/(200k/12k) = 1350/year to drive the car
and your paying
17000(/(160/12) = 1275
so about 75/year savings to drive the used car. Call it about 1k over the life of the car:) I will pay that to ensure my car hasn't been vaped every day for 2 years:)

Now you can start adding things in like repairs, insurance, registration taxes, options the new has the used doesn't, mpg changes, and so on to get a slightly more accurate number but every time I have ever done the math, new and used are with in ~10%. There are definitely exceptions (i.e. buying last years model of car can really help. So does when you have to go from top tier to middle tier to get needed featurs, getting a great price on used also works out. The used market is far from efficient when you get to the private sales market).

The more heavily used (call it the 80k+ miles market), is more of crap shoot where you start having to balance the cost of repairs versus depreciation/upkeep. My impression is the math favors used there by a lot more but a lot of people are uncomfortable with the more random nature of the costs.

Topic Author
Calico
Posts: 419
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Calico » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:29 pm

pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:04 pm
You can get a 2018 camry for $15K++

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/ ... 11161.html
That car may be $15,800. But it has 40k miles, A new 2019 LE (leftover) is $17,700 invoice and MSRP is $19,135 (I looked it up on Car Gurus). They say a fair price for a 2018 LE is $18k. That's what I mean, the cars are cheaper used, but not that much cheaper. I wonder if it really worth saving $2k to get a car with 40k miles on it and a questionable history? Although I don't want a Camry. They don't come in a hatch.

Although maybe it's moot for me. Like I said, after my test drives, I am looking at 3-year-old used Mazda 3s now. They seem to go for $11k-$15k used 2-3 years with 35k miles or so on them. New 2019 hatchback (what I need) is $22,500 invoice. So that seems like a good savings to me (more than $7k). I just don't see that with Honda and Toyota. I will keep an eye on the other two, but at this point, it seems like $2k-$3k less than new is the norm. It doesn't seem like a good trade off.

pinhead
Posts: 130
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by pinhead » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:10 pm

randomguy wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:24 pm
pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:08 pm
randomguy wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:30 am
dziuniek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.
The question is how much you saved. Was it 10k or could you have gotten a new camry for 19k so your savings are more like 4500? My experience is that it is closer to 19k. Then you have to debate is 40k miles(2-3 years) work 4500 or not? For me that is a pretty close tradeoffs. I doubt I am saving or paying more than 1-2k either way.
In my situation, in 2009 I paid $17K out the door (taxes included) for a 2009 used camry that had 40K miles. Came with 100K mile warranty.
Brand new was $22,500 after taxes with 36K mile warranty. So for me, I saw it as $5,500 savings plus better warranty. I am still driving it today, and it has 120K miles. So I averaged out the miles to 12K a year.
It isn't a 5500 savings. It is 5500 dollar savings AND 3.5 years less use of the car. If you think you will get 200k out of the car, the new guy is paying
22,500/(200k/12k) = 1350/year to drive the car
and your paying
17000(/(160/12) = 1275
so about 75/year savings to drive the used car. Call it about 1k over the life of the car:) I will pay that to ensure my car hasn't been vaped every day for 2 years:)

Now you can start adding things in like repairs, insurance, registration taxes, options the new has the used doesn't, mpg changes, and so on to get a slightly more accurate number but every time I have ever done the math, new and used are with in ~10%. There are definitely exceptions (i.e. buying last years model of car can really help. So does when you have to go from top tier to middle tier to get needed featurs, getting a great price on used also works out. The used market is far from efficient when you get to the private sales market).

The more heavily used (call it the 80k+ miles market), is more of crap shoot where you start having to balance the cost of repairs versus depreciation/upkeep. My impression is the math favors used there by a lot more but a lot of people are uncomfortable with the more random nature of the costs.
You do have a valid point. (however, must add the savings in interest over 7 years on the $5500, assuming someone finances)

pinhead
Posts: 130
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by pinhead » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:12 pm

Calico wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:29 pm
pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:04 pm
You can get a 2018 camry for $15K++

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/ ... 11161.html
That car may be $15,800. But it has 40k miles, A new 2019 LE (leftover) is $17,700 invoice and MSRP is $19,135 (I looked it up on Car Gurus). They say a fair price for a 2018 LE is $18k. That's what I mean, the cars are cheaper used, but not that much cheaper. I wonder if it really worth saving $2k to get a car with 40k miles on it and a questionable history? Although I don't want a Camry. They don't come in a hatch.

Although maybe it's moot for me. Like I said, after my test drives, I am looking at 3-year-old used Mazda 3s now. They seem to go for $11k-$15k used 2-3 years with 35k miles or so on them. New 2019 hatchback (what I need) is $22,500 invoice. So that seems like a good savings to me (more than $7k). I just don't see that with Honda and Toyota. I will keep an eye on the other two, but at this point, it seems like $2k-$3k less than new is the norm. It doesn't seem like a good trade off.
Mazda is not the same category of reliability as Honda and Toyota. So not sure if its apples to oranges. A Toyota/Honda gets you to 200K miles usually problem free.

Topic Author
Calico
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:45 pm

Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Calico » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:31 pm

pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Calico wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:29 pm
pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:04 pm
You can get a 2018 camry for $15K++

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/ ... 11161.html
That car may be $15,800. But it has 40k miles, A new 2019 LE (leftover) is $17,700 invoice and MSRP is $19,135 (I looked it up on Car Gurus). They say a fair price for a 2018 LE is $18k. That's what I mean, the cars are cheaper used, but not that much cheaper. I wonder if it really worth saving $2k to get a car with 40k miles on it and a questionable history? Although I don't want a Camry. They don't come in a hatch.

Although maybe it's moot for me. Like I said, after my test drives, I am looking at 3-year-old used Mazda 3s now. They seem to go for $11k-$15k used 2-3 years with 35k miles or so on them. New 2019 hatchback (what I need) is $22,500 invoice. So that seems like a good savings to me (more than $7k). I just don't see that with Honda and Toyota. I will keep an eye on the other two, but at this point, it seems like $2k-$3k less than new is the norm. It doesn't seem like a good trade off.
Mazda is not the same category of reliability as Honda and Toyota. So not sure if its apples to oranges. A Toyota/Honda gets you to 200K miles usually problem free.
What I read in Consumer Reports puts it pretty close to Toyota and Honda. The 2017 Mazda 3 (the one I will most likely get) got a 5/5 reliably rating from them. Maybe Mazda reliable it just a well kept secret. :wink:

Marjimmy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Marjimmy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:41 pm

I was.....

But then I drove a Tesla :oops:
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

z0r
Posts: 139
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by z0r » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:51 pm

Calico wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:31 pm
What I read in Consumer Reports puts it pretty close to Toyota and Honda. The 2017 Mazda 3 (the one I will most likely get) got a 5/5 reliably rating from them. Maybe Mazda reliable it just a well kept secret. :wink:
Mazda is a well kept secret and the 3 is maybe their best model. Older 3s went the distance easily. 2005-2011 Ford focus is largely the same design (no vvt, different wheel hubs, a few other bits are different) and is maybe a second level of well-kept secret.

Also, I need to insert my obligatory "Honda is not Toyota" note here. Toyota is pretty unique in terms of having nearly 100% of models at extreme levels of durability and low tco, and Honda isn't. Please stop conflating them.

randomguy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by randomguy » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:41 pm

pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:10 pm

You do have a valid point. (however, must add the savings in interest over 7 years on the $5500, assuming someone finances)
Sure. Lets add that in

22.5 at @1.9% for 60 months = 23.6k
17.5k @4% for 6o months = 19.3k


so now the math is
new 23.6/ (200/12) = 1416/year
uses = 19.3/(160/12) = 1447/year

So your used car is costing an extra 30 bucks/year versus buying used. Now the used one does become cheaper if instead of a loan, you are investing at 10%:) . None of this is to suggest buying used is a poor choice. It is just that the savings on on the order of 10% not the 30-40% off MSRP that you are often hear quoted for buying a 2-3 year old car.

dziuniek
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by dziuniek » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:31 am

randomguy wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:30 am
dziuniek wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:11 am
Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
Bought a 2015 Toyota Camry Se in 2016.
Car was obviously 1 year old but had 40k miles on it. (it was a fleet car prior).

I paid ... $14,500. A new one's MSRP for that year and model was $23,840...

40k miles later... no issues.
The question is how much you saved. Was it 10k or could you have gotten a new camry for 19k so your savings are more like 4500? My experience is that it is closer to 19k. Then you have to debate is 40k miles(2-3 years) work 4500 or not? For me that is a pretty close tradeoffs. I doubt I am saving or paying more than 1-2k either way.
If you can get a new camry SE for 19k then by all means. Not seeing anything close to that number in my area.

I guess it depends how long you plan on keeping the car if these scenarios are net-net.

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Location: Southern AZ

Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by jlawrence01 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:57 am

protagonist wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:00 pm
Hyundais and Kias depreciate much faster. You may be able to get a lot more for your money.
The reason that Hyundais and Kias depreciate a lot faster is that the 10 year/ 100K power train warranties DO NOT transfer to the subsequent owners. Personally, of all the vehicles mentioned in this thread, I think that the Hyundai Elantra is the best value available as a compact car.

stoptothink
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by stoptothink » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:20 pm

jlawrence01 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:57 am
protagonist wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:00 pm
Hyundais and Kias depreciate much faster. You may be able to get a lot more for your money.
The reason that Hyundais and Kias depreciate a lot faster is that the 10 year/ 100K power train warranties DO NOT transfer to the subsequent owners. Personally, of all the vehicles mentioned in this thread, I think that the Hyundai Elantra is the best value available as a compact car.
This is true, but my mother bought a used sonata, timing chain broke at ~96k miles (I think). She was aware that the warranty didn't transfer, but called the dealership anyways. Hyundai put a brand new engine in, free of charge and gave her a loaner for 2 weeks. I don't know how common that is. My previous car was an accent, drove it to ~100k miles without a hiccup and then gave it to my FIL. It now has over 200k miles and has never had a single non-regular maintenance issue except for a brake light that went out (and was replaced free under a recall). My extended family has owned 5 Hyundais and experienced amazing customer service.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by BogleFanGal » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:21 pm

The kia optima and hyundai sonata really seem like good values and would be my pick over the camry, just based on pricing and more standard safety features I need like blind spot monitoring. Even without the longer powertrain warranty, their basic warranty is still pretty good. I'd love to pick up a '16-18: maybe a low mileage rental.

But those rising claims of engine fires have me on pause: haven't heard much since Jan, but a bunch of earlier models were recalled and NHTSA stated it wasn't comprehensive enough. Issues with later models are still a possibility. I'm keeping an eye on any new developments this year, in anticipation of buying during fall/winter.
"Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen." Mark Twain

Trader Joe
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by Trader Joe » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:59 pm

Calico wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm
This is mainly a curiosity question. I've been car hunting and the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic on my short list I figured I would buy new if I choose those cars. This is because the price for one that is 1-3 years old really isn't that much different from new (less than a $1000 difference for the trims I am looking at and in some cases, the trim I am looking at is cheaper new than a used one of a higher trim). I've been paying attention to commercials about the cars too and they advertise their high resale value as a reason to buy new. It just got me wondering, who is actually buying these lightly used cars that are nearly the same price as new and why? Does anyone know or do any of you buy these cars (they are a little cheaper than new after all, just not enough for my taste).
I do not buy at all. i do own used Toyota's. I get knocks on my front door every single weekend asking if I will sell. Of course my answer is no. But this tells me (at least in my area) that the market demand is high. I wish you all the best.

protagonist
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by protagonist » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:37 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:20 pm
jlawrence01 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:57 am
protagonist wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:00 pm
Hyundais and Kias depreciate much faster. You may be able to get a lot more for your money.
The reason that Hyundais and Kias depreciate a lot faster is that the 10 year/ 100K power train warranties DO NOT transfer to the subsequent owners. Personally, of all the vehicles mentioned in this thread, I think that the Hyundai Elantra is the best value available as a compact car.
This is true, but my mother bought a used sonata, timing chain broke at ~96k miles (I think). She was aware that the warranty didn't transfer, but called the dealership anyways. Hyundai put a brand new engine in, free of charge and gave her a loaner for 2 weeks. I don't know how common that is. My previous car was an accent, drove it to ~100k miles without a hiccup and then gave it to my FIL. It now has over 200k miles and has never had a single non-regular maintenance issue except for a brake light that went out (and was replaced free under a recall). My extended family has owned 5 Hyundais and experienced amazing customer service.
I'm very happy to hear this. I had been a loyal Honda owner since 1988 until I bought a new 2017 Elantra Limited (they made me an offer I could not refuse). To date I have not been crazy about the service I have received from my local Hyundai dealer , compared with what I was getting from the local Honda dealer, but that, i suppose, varies from dealer to dealer, and I have not had major issues. It sounds like you received service well above and beyond what would be expected.

I bought my 2017 Elantra in November 2017 when they were trying to clear their showroom of 2017 models, supposedly the best time to buy a new car, and the price offered was far better than what I could get for a comparable Honda or Toyota at the time. By 2023 or so I will be able to let you know if I think I made a good decision.

NHRATA01
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by NHRATA01 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:53 pm

azanon wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:59 pm
The worst 2 brands to buy almost new (especially Toyotas). They have incredibly high resale value, so you're going to pay almost new price for someone else's vehicle. Great brands but two times to buy them IMO are: 1. New 2. Several years old because you need to pay as little as possible for a car (for whatever reason), but you know these brands stand a good chance of having many years left due to their reliability. That's doubly true if the VIN starts with a J.

So the reverse is true - the cars to buy almost new are those that have poor reliability. Why? Well, resale values plummet on these brands for that reason. But if you have a very good mechanic that can check one out and ensure nothing's wrong, then the car might have made it past that most crucial early stage, and you might have a good car on your hands for many years that you got at a great discount.
I agree with your stance, although poor resale doesn't necessarily coincide with poor reliability either. I've maintained on here a few times a Buick sedan is probably the best used car value out there. You get a lot more luxury features than a mainstream sedan, a better than average warranty (transferable too) at 4/50 B2B and 6/72 powertrain, and depreciation is terrible so a 2-3 year old car can be had at a ~50% discount. Yet the brand typically does quite well in the JD powers initial quality and long term dependability rankings. Sometimes the unfortunate stigma of the brand's customer set can dictate the poor resale...

protagonist
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by protagonist » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:05 pm

likashing wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:09 pm
My theory is:

1) people buying 1-3 year old Toyotas and Hondas from dealerships are being ripped off.
2) new car dealers make more money from used cars than new cars - especially new Toyota/Honda vs 1-3 yo Toyota/Honda

Many people buying 1-3 year old Toyota/Honda do not even consider new because:

1) the general belief that buying used saves you money vs buying new
2) they are not aware that new car prices are highly negotiable. Car salesmen make easy used car sales pitch by showing the new car MSRP to the used car shoppers, when the new cars can be had for much lower than MSRP
3) many people do not have good credit to qualify for the new car finance deals. in addition to buying an over-priced used car, they get sold some bad car loans as well. double whammy
That is my gut feeling as well. Three years of wear and tear, no warranty, more rapid future depreciation and the unknowns surrounding why the car was sold so quickly hardly makes up for a few thousand dollars in savings. And I would not be surprised if a new 2019 Honda purchased in October or November when they have to move their stock would cost LESS than a used 2019 or even possibly a used 2018 purchased today.

It makes more sense to me with cars that depreciate more rapidly .

FireSekr
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by FireSekr » Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:24 pm

pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Calico wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:29 pm
pinhead wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:04 pm
You can get a 2018 camry for $15K++

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/ctd/ ... 11161.html
That car may be $15,800. But it has 40k miles, A new 2019 LE (leftover) is $17,700 invoice and MSRP is $19,135 (I looked it up on Car Gurus). They say a fair price for a 2018 LE is $18k. That's what I mean, the cars are cheaper used, but not that much cheaper. I wonder if it really worth saving $2k to get a car with 40k miles on it and a questionable history? Although I don't want a Camry. They don't come in a hatch.

Although maybe it's moot for me. Like I said, after my test drives, I am looking at 3-year-old used Mazda 3s now. They seem to go for $11k-$15k used 2-3 years with 35k miles or so on them. New 2019 hatchback (what I need) is $22,500 invoice. So that seems like a good savings to me (more than $7k). I just don't see that with Honda and Toyota. I will keep an eye on the other two, but at this point, it seems like $2k-$3k less than new is the norm. It doesn't seem like a good trade off.
Mazda is not the same category of reliability as Honda and Toyota. So not sure if its apples to oranges. A Toyota/Honda gets you to 200K miles usually problem free.
Yes you are right. Mazda’s reliability is significantly better than Honda, so they’re not in the same league

Mazda is ranked 3 on consumer reports long term reliability study, only one spot below Toyota (which produces the most boring cars with the worst ergonomics and cheapest interior materials on the market but yeah they’re reliable)

Honda is ranked 15, several places lower than BMW Audi and Porsche. I guess it’s still ranked higher than VW so it’s got that going for it. I’d still take the Honda over a mind numbingly bland poor driving Toyota (not counting the 86 and Supra here but neither are really Toyota’s which is why they’re good. 86 is Subaru Supra is BMW)

randomguy
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Re: Who is buying 1-3 year old used Toyotas and Hondas?

Post by randomguy » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:06 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:24 pm

Yes you are right. Mazda’s reliability is significantly better than Honda, so they’re not in the same league

Mazda is ranked 3 on consumer reports long term reliability study, only one spot below Toyota (which produces the most boring cars with the worst ergonomics and cheapest interior materials on the market but yeah they’re reliable)

Honda is ranked 15, several places lower than BMW Audi and Porsche. I guess it’s still ranked higher than VW so it’s got that going for it. I’d still take the Honda over a mind numbingly bland poor driving Toyota (not counting the 86 and Supra here but neither are really Toyota’s which is why they’re good. 86 is Subaru Supra is BMW)
And in 2017, Mazda was 12th well behind Audi, BMW, and several spots below.l honfa. If you look at CR reports, 3-15 shuffle around a lot depending where a maker is in the upgrade cycle. I doubt the reliability of the Mazda built in 2017 versus 2018 changed that much.

I question the high rankings of Audi and BMW a bit but part of that is cause CR reports only looks at short term reliability. I. Not sure I would pick either brand for a 200k mile car. I would take my chances with Honda or Mazda any day of the week.

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