Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

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heartwood
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Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by heartwood » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 am

I didn't find this posted.

I got a pop-up this morning on my Win-7 machine.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... pp_omc_win

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:19 am

Yup.

I run Windows Media Center on two machines (two homes) and will need to find a new DVR capability by that date, since WMC isn't included in Windows 10.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am

To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by 8foot7 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:24 am

Allow me please to run against traditional wisdom here and say that a WMC machine that is used as an appliance, not to surf the web and install random apps, will be just fine and can be used for many more years after the artificial deadline.

I would not treat a family computer the same way — that would need to be upgraded because everyone clicks on everything and says Yes to every dialog box.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:27 am

8foot7 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:24 am
Allow me please to run against traditional wisdom here and say that a WMC machine that is used as an appliance, not to surf the web and install random apps, will be just fine and can be used for many more years after the artificial deadline.

I would not treat a family computer the same way — that would need to be upgraded because everyone clicks on everything and says Yes to every dialog box.
WMC uses the web to pull in the programming schedule. Having a Windows 7 computer connected to the web past the end of support on my home network is not going to happen.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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WingsFan4Life
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by WingsFan4Life » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:32 am

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Interesting take, however, I don't agree with you at all. I've had no issues with W10 and run it on four of my computers.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:39 am

WingsFan4Life wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:32 am
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Interesting take, however, I don't agree with you at all. I've had no issues with W10 and run it on four of my computers.
I took advantage of the free upgrade to W10 when it was offered some years ago. With each successive forced "upgrade," the machine became more unstable. After the last W10 upgrade, about a year ago, several every-day key programs stopped working (Outlook 2010, Quicken 2018, Malwarebyes, wifi driver, to name a few). Uninstalling and reinstalling these programs didn't resolve the issue. Backing up my data and reinstalling the OS from my original W7 Pro recovery disk worked like a charm, and the machine has been good as new since, and is lightning fast.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Edit to add: it's a Dell Latitide from 2013.
Last edited by samsoes on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:45 am

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
+1
All of our office and studio computers run Windows 7. We have several original OS install programs as well. The platform has been stable for many years and we have not needed to upgrade our major software packages as well.What works, for what we need, works. The priority for us are the programs that we already use work well with Windows 7.
Everyone is different and has different needs and experiences.

OP: you can disable the "pop up".

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by greg24 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 am

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:39 am
I took advantage of the free upgrade to W10 when it was offered some years ago. With each successive forced "upgrade," the machine became more unstable.
In my experience, upgrading the OS is the biggest problem. A new W10 machine is just fine.

I have a W7 machine at home that will just keep running W7.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by LiterallyIronic » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:51 am

When I built my computer in 2016, I specifically chose the Intel i7 6700K because that was supposedly going to be the last generation of Intel CPUs that would support Windows 7.

Windows 10? I think not. Cortana, Windows Store, telemetry, and forced updates. Take those out, or allow me to remove them - then and only then will I install Windows 10. Come next year, perhaps I'll just dual-boot into Linux and use Win7 for gaming compatibility.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by MrSarcasm » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:27 am
8foot7 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:24 am
Allow me please to run against traditional wisdom here and say that a WMC machine that is used as an appliance, not to surf the web and install random apps, will be just fine and can be used for many more years after the artificial deadline.

I would not treat a family computer the same way — that would need to be upgraded because everyone clicks on everything and says Yes to every dialog box.
WMC uses the web to pull in the programming schedule. Having a Windows 7 computer connected to the web past the end of support on my home network is not going to happen.
I had the same issue. Ended up switching to Plex on Windows 10.

I was still able to get the free upgrade to Windows 10 a few months ago. Download the ISO, burn to disk/USB, and install. During the install it will convert to a virtual license and everything should be good. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how ... 0-upgrade/

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by MichCPA » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 am

greg24 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 am
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:39 am
I took advantage of the free upgrade to W10 when it was offered some years ago. With each successive forced "upgrade," the machine became more unstable.
In my experience, upgrading the OS is the biggest problem. A new W10 machine is just fine.

I have a W7 machine at home that will just keep running W7.
+1

A clean install of the base OS fixes 90+% of software related performance issues. Back before I had an ssd, I used to reinstall yearly to ensure good performance.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:09 am

MrSarcasm wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
I had the same issue. Ended up switching to Plex on Windows 10.
I have held off doing this because I have specific features I like. 1) Ability to watch a show that is being DVR'd at the same time. For example, I can turn on the evening news at 6:40 (starts at 6:30) and watch it while it's still being recorded, and skip all the commercials. I also do this with the few sports events I watch, I start maybe 90 minutes into a football game and fast forward commercials and halftime. 2) The ability to watch anything live, yet pause it, or rewind it, at any time. WMC has a buffer it collects. I use two HD Homerun boxes (2 tuners each) for my OTA programming.



MrSarcasm wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

I was still able to get the free upgrade to Windows 10 a few months ago. Download the ISO, burn to disk/USB, and install. During the install it will convert to a virtual license and everything should be good. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how ... 0-upgrade/
I upgraded both machines to Windows 10 some years ago, then reverted back, so I'm all set moving forward when I have to, but will likely do a clean install.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by GrowthSeeker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:15 am

A few months ago, my Win 7 laptop died after a fall (the SS hard drive was fine, btw). So I got a new laptop, whatever I could get next day from Amazon (happens to be a Dell). And I got an SSD reader so I could transfer all the data.
Point is, Win 10 is fine. Except for what pops up when you click the Start button, it’s very similar. I rarely use the Start button because of a search box lower left which will find the file or program or Control Panel feature you want.

But, upgrading a perfectly good machine to the latest version of Windows has always been associated with a high probability of a bad result.

When W10 first came out it was horrible but apparently it got better.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:21 am

GrowthSeeker wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:15 am
But, upgrading a perfectly good machine to the latest version of Windows has always been associated with a high probability of a bad result.
The Q&A section of the OP's linked article advises to get a new machine for W10. Notice that they are no longer recommending upgrades from W7 to W10.
I wonder why... :oops:
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by bob60014 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 pm

My Win 7 will continue to be used after 2020 offline as a media server, photo and video editing and other non internet connected services. It's too stable to move/upgrade and I'm not a fan of Win10.
So, I've just gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon in a dual boot mode. Its very much like WIN7 and even without reading much documentation, was able to get it up and running without issue. So far so good and I'll be experimenting more!

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by jebmke » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:50 pm

GrowthSeeker wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:15 am
When W10 first came out it was horrible but apparently it got better.
I have about 50 machines running Win10 and have not had any issues. Didn't have with 7 either.

My desktop runs Win10 and it is quite stable. The only time I restart it is to install updates.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by iamlucky13 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.

There are definitely unnecessary changes for the sake of change that don't benefit the user (As usual, Microsoft is Apple's best salesman - breaking familiarity removes one of the biggest barriers to switching), but don't have much drawback other than having to adjust in mostly little ways. The new Start menu, or whatever new name they felt compelled to give it this time should have kept its more hierarchical nature from Windows 7 and earlier, but the way you pin shortcuts to it is handy enough. The "Settings" folder that was previously "Control Panel" has gotten a little more ambiguous, but not taken to a problematic level like smart phone UI design is trending.

Searching has improved significantly compared to Windows 7.

My work computer has some stability issues that seem in part to be triggered by frequent docking and undocking. I don't know if those issues are due to Windows 10, due to something related to Dell's BIOS or hardware, or (my theory) because our megacorp IT department has too many unstable custom programs designed to provide security by preventing anyone from using their computer.

I don't have the same problems on my home laptop with Windows 10, although it also doesn't get as much use.

Cortana was so easy to disable I don't even remember what the process was. Much easier than getting rid of OEM bloatware.

I'm not currently planning changes to my Windows 7 desktop, however. The experience for the tens of millions of XP users who ignored the end-of-service date was, frankly, a lot less concerning than using Windows XP prior to Service Pack 2 was. If that desktop were ever on a network I didn't fully control, or if my kids were nearing teen age, I might be more proactive.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by inbox788 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:34 pm

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
+1

I'm moving to Chromebooks/Google Docs for some tasks and MacOS/Safari/Macbook for others. Plus I'm doing more and more on my phone and iPad/tablet. I might give Linux a try on my Windows 7 system when that becomes too much of a liability. I spend 98% of the time inside a browser anyway. I'm less concerned about updates or functionality than malware. I figure there is a little time after the deadline before that becomes a serious issue.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Kenkat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:13 pm

I’ve had no issues with Win 10 having upgraded from Win 7 when it first came out. I consider it better and more stable than Win 7 which was also a very stable OS.

If you plan on keeping Win 7 running past the end of life date, realize that there will be no more security patches from Microsoft for it, making it increasingly vulnerable over time.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by joe8d » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:16 pm

samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
:thumbsup
All the Best, | Joe

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:22 pm

Overall I think all modern operating systems are amazingly good, but I would say that when I've had problems with Windows 7 or 10 it's usually been on systems that were upgraded vs. ones that started with clean installations. And most of the problems I've had were related to Windows Update on the computers that were upgraded from older Windows versions.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by jebmke » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:22 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:13 pm
I’ve had no issues with Win 10 having upgraded from Win 7 when it first came out. I consider it better and more stable than Win 7 which was also a very stable OS.

Win7 was quite stable but every once in a while I would have to kill off a process. I never have to do this in Win10. Win10 access control seems more flexible.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by cjking » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am

I'm very happy with Windows 10. Maybe the fact I've done a clean install a couple of times since upgrading has helped. (The built-in "reset this PC" feature makes this easy. )

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by CardinalRule » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:49 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.
I agree with this.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:55 am

cjking wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am
I'm very happy with Windows 10. Maybe the fact I've done a clean install a couple of times since upgrading has helped. (The built-in "reset this PC" feature makes this easy. )
I tried the W10 reset feature. After it completed, I had no drivers for the wifi nor for the ethernet port. The only option, since lost internet connectivity, was to drop back to the original W7 install. W10 is quite the disaster.
"Happiness Is Not My Companion" - Gen. Gouverneur K. Warren. | (Avatar is the statue of Gen. Warren atop Little Round Top @ Gettysburg National Military Park.)

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by jebmke » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:00 am

samsoes wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:55 am
cjking wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am
I'm very happy with Windows 10. Maybe the fact I've done a clean install a couple of times since upgrading has helped. (The built-in "reset this PC" feature makes this easy. )
I tried the W10 reset feature. After it completed, I had no drivers for the wifi nor for the ethernet port. The only option, since lost internet connectivity, was to drop back to the original W7 install. W10 is quite the disaster.
I have never used the reset feature. I prefer a clean install from the Windows media for whichever build I want. I am assuming reset will re-install an older build which is less than ideal. I'm at 1803 with my home machine and 1809 with the other 50 machines I manage.

The first thing I do when I get a new machine is to wipe the drive and re-install the OS without all the OEM add-ons.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by whodidntante » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 am

I upgraded both of my machines to Windows 10 back when it was free to do so. Some say it's still free to do so. I initially had serious issues with AMD GPU drivers on my laptop, but I used integrated graphics instead for a couple of months until they got their act together. Now all is well.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by whodidntante » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:17 am

samsoes wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:55 am
cjking wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am
I'm very happy with Windows 10. Maybe the fact I've done a clean install a couple of times since upgrading has helped. (The built-in "reset this PC" feature makes this easy. )
I tried the W10 reset feature. After it completed, I had no drivers for the wifi nor for the ethernet port. The only option, since lost internet connectivity, was to drop back to the original W7 install. W10 is quite the disaster.
Try putting the latest drivers for everything on a flash drive before reinstalling an OS.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by badger42 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:24 am

If something is connected to the Internet and runs Windows, it should run windows 10, period full stop. Running windows 7 means your computer is likely to be the Typhoid Mary of your network and networks around you. It's also far more likely to be taken over by malware, ransomware, or just general nuisance type issues.

If you are running some sort of specialty system (studio, factory, lab, etc) that is air-gapped from the internet (NO connectivity) then Windows 7 is just fine.

If you need internet connectivity and learning Windows 10 is too hard for you, get a Chromebook. They're dirt cheap (though a couple hundred more gets you a much nicer machine), really easy to use and don't change as quickly as full featured operating systems. Keeping everything in the cloud is probably better for you anyway (Windows 7 seems to correlate strongly with janky old hardware, 20 toolbars, and no backups)

iPads are also a great option, as long as you keep the software up to date. There's a reason they're the stereotypical toddler/grandparent solution - they're great for both ends of the age spectrum.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by samsoes » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:59 am

whodidntante wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:17 am
samsoes wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:55 am
cjking wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 am
I'm very happy with Windows 10. Maybe the fact I've done a clean install a couple of times since upgrading has helped. (The built-in "reset this PC" feature makes this easy. )
I tried the W10 reset feature. After it completed, I had no drivers for the wifi nor for the ethernet port. The only option, since lost internet connectivity, was to drop back to the original W7 install. W10 is quite the disaster.
Try putting the latest drivers for everything on a flash drive before reinstalling an OS.
Well, I didn't know a driver-less machine would be a problem before reset the OS. Doh!
Last edited by samsoes on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by LiterallyIronic » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:33 am

bob60014 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 pm
My Win 7 will continue to be used after 2020 offline as a media server, photo and video editing and other non internet connected services. It's too stable to move/upgrade and I'm not a fan of Win10.
So, I've just gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon in a dual boot mode. Its very much like WIN7 and even without reading much documentation, was able to get it up and running without issue. So far so good and I'll be experimenting more!
I'm starting to look into Linux myself, but there are a lot of flavors out there. Is Mint Cinnamon the one you recommend and why? Also, I'm having serious trouble finding somewhere I can even get Linux on an install disc. I don't want to burn my own ISO, nor do I want to install from a flash drive. I'm willing to pay for a Linux install disc, but can't find a place that sells them.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by mariezzz » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:43 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:35 pm
samsoes wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:22 am
To borrow a phrase, "they'll have to pry Windows 7 out of my cold, dead hands."

Windows 10 is an abomination.
Nah. Windows 10 is ok. Windows 8 was the abomination.

There are definitely unnecessary changes for the sake of change that don't benefit the user (As usual, Microsoft is Apple's best salesman - breaking familiarity removes one of the biggest barriers to switching), but don't have much drawback other than having to adjust in mostly little ways. The new Start menu, or whatever new name they felt compelled to give it this time should have kept its more hierarchical nature from Windows 7 and earlier, but the way you pin shortcuts to it is handy enough. The "Settings" folder that was previously "Control Panel" has gotten a little more ambiguous, but not taken to a problematic level like smart phone UI design is trending.

Searching has improved significantly compared to Windows 7.

My work computer has some stability issues that seem in part to be triggered by frequent docking and undocking. I don't know if those issues are due to Windows 10, due to something related to Dell's BIOS or hardware, or (my theory) because our megacorp IT department has too many unstable custom programs designed to provide security by preventing anyone from using their computer.

I don't have the same problems on my home laptop with Windows 10, although it also doesn't get as much use.

Cortana was so easy to disable I don't even remember what the process was. Much easier than getting rid of OEM bloatware.

I'm not currently planning changes to my Windows 7 desktop, however. The experience for the tens of millions of XP users who ignored the end-of-service date was, frankly, a lot less concerning than using Windows XP prior to Service Pack 2 was. If that desktop were ever on a network I didn't fully control, or if my kids were nearing teen age, I might be more proactive.
Absolutely agree, especially with this:
As usual, Microsoft is Apple's best salesman - breaking familiarity removes one of the biggest barriers to switching)
I held on to XP for a long time, until my computer died. Then made the jump to Windows 8.1 Professional. That was a jump in terms of interface, but by the time I did it, there were enough places online with advice on how you could modify the interface.

I don't understand why Microsoft thinks dramatic overhauls on interface are good for business. I bought a cheap clearance, return from lease Dell computer 3 years ago (still working fine, knock on wood, but replaced hard drive 9 months ago preemptively) that came with Windows 8.1 Pro. I have considered going with Linux, and may at some point do that, but right now, I'm still able to use various older Windows software (including old microsoft office - doesn't have all features I use at work on Office 16, but fine for home use).

Microsoft has made some idiotic decisions about interface changes over time, the most idiotic being the change to the ribbon in office without including a parameter to allow people to continue using menus. I use keyboard commands for a lot of things, but have a utility that adds menus. Menus used to provide the reminder for keyboard shortcuts ... which helped people gradually learn them. Now, people coming out of college just don't know them and even those with some programming skills are incredibly inefficient in Windows because they rely on the ribbon; we have new hires do a short online training to emphasize to them they need to start learning them.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Tycoon » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:51 am

LiterallyIronic wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:33 am
bob60014 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:46 pm
My Win 7 will continue to be used after 2020 offline as a media server, photo and video editing and other non internet connected services. It's too stable to move/upgrade and I'm not a fan of Win10.
So, I've just gone to Linux Mint Cinnamon in a dual boot mode. Its very much like WIN7 and even without reading much documentation, was able to get it up and running without issue. So far so good and I'll be experimenting more!
I'm starting to look into Linux myself, but there are a lot of flavors out there. Is Mint Cinnamon the one you recommend and why? Also, I'm having serious trouble finding somewhere I can even get Linux on an install disc. I don't want to burn my own ISO, nor do I want to install from a flash drive. I'm willing to pay for a Linux install disc, but can't find a place that sells them.
https://www.osdisc.com/products/linux/l ... =linuxmint
“To know what you know and what you do not know, that is true knowledge.” Confucius

cjking
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by cjking » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:18 am

jebmke wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:00 am
I have never used the reset feature. I prefer a clean install from the Windows media for whichever build I want. I am assuming reset will re-install an older build which is less than ideal. I'm at 1803 with my home machine and 1809 with the other 50 machines I manage.
Why would reset install anything but the latest build? (I know there are different tiers whereby developers can get new versions sooner than the general population, but I assume reset would just give you the current release for the tier you're in.) (And in a home rather than corporate situation, it wouldn't actually matter much what build you installed anyway, because if you somehow installed an older one, W10 would just update itself to the current build fairly soon afterwards.)

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by jebmke » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:02 pm

cjking wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:18 am
jebmke wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:00 am
I have never used the reset feature. I prefer a clean install from the Windows media for whichever build I want. I am assuming reset will re-install an older build which is less than ideal. I'm at 1803 with my home machine and 1809 with the other 50 machines I manage.
Why would reset install anything but the latest build? (I know there are different tiers whereby developers can get new versions sooner than the general population, but I assume reset would just give you the current release for the tier you're in.) (And in a home rather than corporate situation, it wouldn't actually matter much what build you installed anyway, because if you somehow installed an older one, W10 would just update itself to the current build fairly soon afterwards.)
I don't know how reset works (in some OEM installations the recovery installs the as-built image but I have no idea what Windows does. I do know how a clean install works. If the reset takes you back and you end up downloading updates, that could take a while. Whereas I can completely re-image a machine in about 45 minutes using a bootable flash drive. I can also install the build level I want. For example, when everyone was having trouble with 1809, I was installing 1803 to avoid user issues.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by cbr shadow » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by patrick » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:22 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:24 am
I would not treat a family computer the same way — that would need to be upgraded because everyone clicks on everything and says Yes to every dialog box.
If the machine is used that way then it won't be safe with Windows 10 either.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by jebmke » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:25 pm

patrick wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:22 pm
8foot7 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:24 am
I would not treat a family computer the same way — that would need to be upgraded because everyone clicks on everything and says Yes to every dialog box.
If the machine is used that way then it won't be safe with Windows 10 either.
True but you can go a long way to protect the system by creating standard users (no admin rights). The ability to isolate users and customize what they can get to on the system is better in Win10 than it was in 7.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by BogleFanGal » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm

cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm
Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.
It's not always about resistance to change. If I knew I could upgrade to 10, I'd be thrilled. I have two excellent systems I've been very happy with - both have Win 7 - and almost everything i do is online.

The Boglehead in me HATES the thought of throwing out two perfectly good computers and having to fork out for two new systems. :annoyed Wasteful and expensive. But I also can't risk professional and personal work on an unsupported OS. And I use both computers (laptop and desktop) heavily.

From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.

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Kenkat
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Kenkat » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:41 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm
cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm
Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.
It's not always about resistance to change. If I knew I could upgrade to 10, I'd be thrilled. I have two excellent systems I've been very happy with - both have Win 7 - and almost everything i do is online.

The Boglehead in me HATES the thought of throwing out two perfectly good computers and having to fork out for two new systems. :annoyed Wasteful and expensive. But I also can't risk professional and personal work on an unsupported OS. And I use both computers (laptop and desktop) heavily.

From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.
I would strongly disagree that upgrading to Windows 10 is not recommended. There are a few people with very strong opinions while the rest of the world happily plugs away on Windows 10 with no complaints.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by BogleFanGal » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm

Kenkat wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:41 pm
BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm
cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm
Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.
It's not always about resistance to change. If I knew I could upgrade to 10, I'd be thrilled. I have two excellent systems I've been very happy with - both have Win 7 - and almost everything i do is online.

The Boglehead in me HATES the thought of throwing out two perfectly good computers and having to fork out for two new systems. :annoyed Wasteful and expensive. But I also can't risk professional and personal work on an unsupported OS. And I use both computers (laptop and desktop) heavily.

From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.
I would strongly disagree that upgrading to Windows 10 is not recommended. There are a few people with very strong opinions while the rest of the world happily plugs away on Windows 10 with no complaints.
I'm also thinking of the MS pop up screen that advises against upgrading on an existing computer. Has anyone upgraded without major issues?

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MP123
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by MP123 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:48 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm
From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.
I very recently upgraded an older Dell with Win7 to Win10. I was somewhat dreading the process having had issues with upgrades in the past but in this case it went perfectly smooth. It took about an hour and was free, Microsoft still has the free upgrade link on their site.

It might be worth giving it a try at least.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:54 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm
cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm
Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.
It's not always about resistance to change. If I knew I could upgrade to 10, I'd be thrilled. I have two excellent systems I've been very happy with - both have Win 7 - and almost everything i do is online.

The Boglehead in me HATES the thought of throwing out two perfectly good computers and having to fork out for two new systems. :annoyed Wasteful and expensive. But I also can't risk professional and personal work on an unsupported OS. And I use both computers (laptop and desktop) heavily.

From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.
Although I've had some issues with upgrades after they complete - notably with ongoing windows updates following the win10 upgrade - none of those issues resulted in any kind of loss of data. And eventually they got worked out, although sometimes I've had to wait many weeks for another update that would work.

On the other hand, if your older computer wasn't high-end when you bought it, don't discount the benefit of a new computer. Features that a more common now - SSD, IPS, more memory, faster cpu - do improve the experience for many applications.

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Kenkat
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Kenkat » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:58 pm

BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm
Kenkat wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:41 pm
BogleFanGal wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm
cbr shadow wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 pm
Every new version of every software I've ever used has a group of users that won't adapt because they're used to the older versions. This is true even when there are gigantic improvements to the software, simple training is provided, etc. I'm not saying that all updates are positive, but not everyone deals well with change.
It's not always about resistance to change. If I knew I could upgrade to 10, I'd be thrilled. I have two excellent systems I've been very happy with - both have Win 7 - and almost everything i do is online.

The Boglehead in me HATES the thought of throwing out two perfectly good computers and having to fork out for two new systems. :annoyed Wasteful and expensive. But I also can't risk professional and personal work on an unsupported OS. And I use both computers (laptop and desktop) heavily.

From what I'm hearing on this thread, door #3 - upgrading system to Win 10, is NOT recommended. So between a rock and a hard place.
I would strongly disagree that upgrading to Windows 10 is not recommended. There are a few people with very strong opinions while the rest of the world happily plugs away on Windows 10 with no complaints.
I'm also thinking of the MS pop up screen that advises against upgrading on an existing computer. Has anyone upgraded without major issues?
If you have an older PC with 4GB of RAM and a 5400 rpm hard drive, I probably wouldn’t upgrade it. But if you’ve upgraded to an SSD and maybe thrown some extra RAM in, I think it would be fine. I have an older Gateway computer that was slowing down. I added an SSD and installed some extra surplus RAM that I got for free and it runs great on Win 10.

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MP123
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by MP123 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:09 pm

Win10 running on old Win7 hardware seems a little faster than Win7 at least for me. It's certainly not slower or bogged down. I think MSFT learned from the whole Win8.x experience.

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BogleFanGal
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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by BogleFanGal » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:13 pm

"If you have an older PC with 4GB of RAM and a 5400 rpm hard drive, I probably wouldn’t upgrade it. But if you’ve upgraded to an SSD and maybe thrown some extra RAM in, I think it would be fine. I have an older Gateway computer that was slowing down. I added an SSD and installed some extra surplus RAM that I got for free and it runs great on Win 10."

Ha...kenkat: you nailed it 4GB, 5400 rpm. Thanks for the info - will look into what it would take to upgrade both vs buying new systems. At least I have a few months.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by Trader Joe » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:19 pm

heartwood wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 am
I didn't find this posted.

I got a pop-up this morning on my Win-7 machine.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... pp_omc_win
I did not receive that pop-up, but I have Windows 7 and I will never upgrade until my computer dies.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by tibbitts » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Trader Joe wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:19 pm
heartwood wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 am
I didn't find this posted.

I got a pop-up this morning on my Win-7 machine.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... pp_omc_win
I did not receive that pop-up, but I have Windows 7 and I will never upgrade until my computer dies.
It's not much fun using a computer with the internet. I do still use an XP computer due to the simplicity of running a certain application with a certain peripheral, but it's not attached to the network.

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Re: Windows 7 end of support - Jan 14, 2020

Post by iamlucky13 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:51 pm

badger42 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:24 am
If something is connected to the Internet and runs Windows, it should run windows 10, period full stop. Running windows 7 means your computer is likely to be the Typhoid Mary of your network and networks around you. It's also far more likely to be taken over by malware, ransomware, or just general nuisance type issues.
It's easy to echo the hysteria promoted by those who sell software and hardware, but the real experience of tens of millions of Windows XP users, which a year or two after the end of support was still the 2nd most popular OS worldwide, was a lot less dramatic.

There was eventually an internet explorer exploit, if I remember right, that was a concern for anyone on XP who might for some reason have been using that browser.

There was also WannaCry, enabled by risky practices on the part of the US government which they have yet to be held liable for. It could spread by phishing, or from computer-to-computer on the same local network. It was not only Windows XP that was vulnerable, but also every newer version, including Windows 10 and Server 2016. Except, although Wanna Cry could exploit the same vulnerability that XP had, the actual malware delivered through the exploit was not XP compatible! :mrgreen:

In general, I would recommend upgrading, especially if you're going to be using your computer at work or on public wifi (or worse yet, college campuses) or are the type who clicks on dialog boxes without reading them, but a lot of the pressure to upgrade is exaggerated.

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