[On-going Scams - Post them here]

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criticalmass
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Re: Scam Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by criticalmass »

DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:25 pm
criticalmass wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:04 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:52 pm
mpnret wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:44 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:40 pm That all said I believe this topic (SCAMS) isn't allowed here. Looking at the Forum Policies I don't see it prohibited - but I remember it mentioned as being un-allowed in the past.
I changed the title for you.
Sure - that's a different topic entirely :?

Personally I don't care - just letting you know that this thread will likely be locked or removed from view.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149334
Hopefully not. I'm not sure why this forum seems to like to block or lock some of the more useful posts. This thread just gave me a heads up of a convincing tactic or technique that scammers may use against us or folks we know.

What forums are a good alternative for sharing useful consumer information without locks?
There are several sites to look at to see the latest Scams. FTC and several consumer news sites do so. Here are a couple:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/features/scam-alerts
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_al ... alerts.htm
Those are good sites, but they are focused on publishing information about scams, not sharing consumer information in an interactive message board forum format.
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anon_investor
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Re: Caution Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by anon_investor »

It's unfortunate, so many scam calls, I never answer the phone now unless it is someone on my contact list. I figure if it is important they will leave me a voice message...
Jazzysoon
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Re: Caution Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by Jazzysoon »

Thanks for posting this. It's a Reminder to always be diligent, I just received a txt on my Verizon Samsung Android phone with 2FA code for my Apple ID I supposedly requested along with phone number to call to enter it. I'm not even going to try to dial the number.
3-20Characters
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Re: Caution Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by 3-20Characters »

Thanks for the heads up and complete details. This is a clever scam. I can see people falling for it. I don’t answer the phone any longer unless it’s a recognized number from my contacts. It’s really an arms race these days: scammers and hackers on one side, the rest of us on the other. We may need reinforcements.
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LadyGeek
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Re: [On-going Scams - Post them here]

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged mpnret's thread into the on-going discussion. From my previous post:
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:09 am Scam discussions are continually posted in this forum. They affect you financially and can be be unnerving at times.

We've previously disallowed them because the sheer volume of scam threads was flooding the Personal Consumer Issues forum with this single topic. However, the information provided in scam discussions is helpful and should not be ignored.

As a compromise, we are now permitting scam discussions in this thread only.

Use the thread's search box to look for similar posts.

(When viewing the thread, the search box is just under the thread's title at the top left of the page.)
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ResearchMed
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Re: [On-going Scams - Post them here]

Post by ResearchMed »

LadyGeek wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:57 pm I merged mpnret's thread into the on-going discussion. From my previous post:
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:09 am Scam discussions are continually posted in this forum. They affect you financially and can be be unnerving at times.

We've previously disallowed them because the sheer volume of scam threads was flooding the Personal Consumer Issues forum with this single topic. However, the information provided in scam discussions is helpful and should not be ignored.

As a compromise, we are now permitting scam discussions in this thread only.

Use the thread's search box to look for similar posts.

(When viewing the thread, the search box is just under the thread's title at the top left of the page.)
Thank you for allowing these.
Not only might there be real value in learned *in advance* about some clever/novel "techniques", but there can be some helpful ways to handle them as well.

And this is helpful not just for "us", but perhaps for our friends/family members.

It's just too bad there is a need for such a topic in the first place.

RM
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silverostrich787
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Re: Scam Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by silverostrich787 »

criticalmass wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:55 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:25 pm
criticalmass wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:04 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:52 pm
mpnret wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:44 pm
I changed the title for you.
Sure - that's a different topic entirely :?

Personally I don't care - just letting you know that this thread will likely be locked or removed from view.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149334
Hopefully not. I'm not sure why this forum seems to like to block or lock some of the more useful posts. This thread just gave me a heads up of a convincing tactic or technique that scammers may use against us or folks we know.

What forums are a good alternative for sharing useful consumer information without locks?
There are several sites to look at to see the latest Scams. FTC and several consumer news sites do so. Here are a couple:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/features/scam-alerts
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/scam_al ... alerts.htm
Those are good sites, but they are focused on publishing information about scams, not sharing consumer information in an interactive message board forum format.
I personally like to go to some complaint boards like http://whycall.me and another similar websites to search for any information related to certain numbers. However, most of the time, I just go to Google and search the numbers there. There will be many information there, though.
scrabbler1
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Re: Caution Alert - Verizon Wireless

Post by scrabbler1 »

mpnret wrote: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:02 am [Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

This is a new one on me and I thought it was unique enough to post it.
Got a call from Verizon (spoofed) yesterday claiming to be fraud dept. They said someone was attempting to buy a new iphone and charge it to my account and it was suspicious so they needed to make sure it was legit. They asked if anyone on my account was buying a new iphone and I said no. They proceeded to give me a name and complete address of the buyer and ask if I knew him, another no. No information was requested from me. The caller then said they would decline the purchase and it would never reach my account. He then said he would text me a confirmation number to confirm our conversation so he could cancel the order. All I had to do is read it back to him. Initial thought was someone is sending me a text and I am just reading it back, no danger there. I immediately got a text from Verizon with a number but decided to hang up at that point.
I then made a call to Verizon fraud department. They said it's a known scam. The scammer tries to log on to your Verizon account and clicks on forgot my password and text me a one time passcode. The scammer gets you to read the code to him and he is into your account.
I heard about this one a few months ago except that the scammer was calling from the bank's debit card fraud department. The scammer was calling on the victim's cell phone, which boosted the chance that the victim would not be home and therefore be unable to log into his online banking to see for himself what was (not) happening. The scammer was somehow able to transfer some money out of the victim's bank account before it was discovered by the victim after he got home. I think he got the money restored by the bank, but it was surely a helluva scam.
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another too clever scam

Post by bernoulli »

[Thread merged into here, see below (next page). --admin LadyGeek]

So I heard another scam from a friend, let's call him A - who fell victim to the scam. Here is A's story.

A had some issues with an Apple product so he googled for Apple's customer service number and made a call. For some unknown reason, the first on the search result for his search is a fraudulent number pretending to be Apple customer service. So he called the fraudulent number and - long story short - gave out his debit card number.

(BTW, I tried searching for Apple support on google and everything looks legitimate to me. I don't know how he got that fraudulent number but the lesson of course is not to trust phone numbers you find via google, even if they look legitimate.)

When he was on the phone with the fraudulent Apple support person, he realized what was going on but was not too worried because he only had a few dollars on his debit card. He also contacted his bank (Schwab) while he was still on the phone with the scammer to ask for help. The Schwab person told A not to worry because A only had a few dollars on the debit card and specifically told A that they would not transfer anything from A's brokerage account. With that assurance, A did not empty the brokerage account and left everything alone. A contacted Schwab again after he got off the phone with the scammer and the second Schwab person told him the same thing - that Schwab would not transfer funds from A's brokerage account to his debit card without A's authorization.

Well, a few days later, almost $10K was transferred from A's brokerage account to his debit card and was withdrawn by the scammer. Worse yet, Schwab is now telling him that the previous two customer reps gave A wrong information. Schwab closed the case denying it is a fraudulent transaction but instead a scam which is solely between A and the scammer.

This seems wrong to me. Schwab did not have authority to transfer funds from someone's brokerage account to his debit card. Schwab also did not give any notification to A about this transfer from brokerage to debit card. The Schwab people A dealt with were not friendly to say the least and gave A assurance that turned out to be utterly incorrect. Had Schwab not given A the false assurance, A could have emptied his brokerage account while the scammer was still on the phone with him - because the funds were not immediately transferred from the brokerage account but a few days later.

At this point, Schwab is not taking responsibility, any possible remedies, fellow BHs?
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FlyAF
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by FlyAF »

So A was on the phone with the scammer, figured out he was being scammed, and continued on with the scam knowingly? All the while he was on the phone with 2 different people at the same time?

Sounds unlikely and A sounds like a dolt.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by Dottie57 »

I think the lesson is to never, ever use your debit card over the phone or on a catalog/internet order. ALWAY USE A CC which always has more protection (legally).

I am sorry for your friend, but think he was at fault, not Schwab.
bernoulli
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by bernoulli »

FlyAF wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:09 am So A was on the phone with the scammer, figured out he was being scammed, and continued on with the scam knowingly? All the while he was on the phone with 2 different people at the same time?

Sounds unlikely and A sounds like a dolt.
A used his wife's phone to call Schwab while still on the phone with the fraudulent "Apple support." Sigh.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

First, the Schwab debit card is linked to the brokerage account for overdrafts. So unless the victim didn't have that capability turned off, he did in fact give Schwab permission to do this.

Second, he should have immediately hung up the phone when he realized the issue, and asked Schwab to immediately block the debit card. Debit cards don't "have dollars on them", they are connected to accounts with dollars. By blocking the card, this could have all been averted.

I suspect the victim is elderly? So he was on two different calls, at once, trying to work things out, and he's got the story 100% straight? Seems doubtful.

A very expensive lesson for him to learn. Hopefully he takes steps in the future to be smarter.

Don't know what the OP knows about Schwab's authority on someone else's account besides second hand knowledge from someone that got scammed.

Tip - there is ZERO REASON to own a debit card. ZERO. If you want ATM access, either request an ATM card, or have the debit capabilities turned off on the debit card.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ScubaHogg
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by ScubaHogg »

Wait, he gave out his debit card number and somehow the perp used that to transfer money from the victim's brokerage account? How does that work? Please say he didn't have some kind of limitless overdraft protection tying his checking and brokerage accounts together.
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ohai
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by ohai »

I'd complain to Schwab, and then that guy's boss, write the CEO, and then send the story to tabloids.

I'm also confused on why Schwab wouldn't recommend to cancel the debit card and send him a new one overnight. Almost any other bank would have done this.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

ScubaHogg wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Wait, he gave out his debit card number and somehow the perp used that to transfer money from the victim's brokerage account? How does that work? Please say he didn't have some kind of limitless overdraft protection tying his checking and brokerage accounts together.
Of course he did.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

ohai wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:13 am I'd complain to Schwab, and then that guy's boss, write the CEO, and then send the story to tabloids.

I'm also confused on why Schwab wouldn't recommend to cancel the debit card and send him a new one overnight. Almost any other bank would have done this.
We have zero idea of what transpired in the conversations. This is all second hand from someone, and the person who got scammed may or may not be relating things accurately.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by jhfenton »

The story doesn't make sense. Why would Schwab still not cancel the debit card immediately if it had been compromised?

Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am The story doesn't make sense. Why would Schwab still not cancel the debit card immediately if it had been compromised?

Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
Turn off the debit capability of all your debit cards, making them ATM-only.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by SmileyFace »

Removed (misread)
Last edited by SmileyFace on Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by mcraepat9 »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
+1

I had Schwab effectively "turn off" the POS feature on my Schwab debit card and it is now effectively an ATM card only.
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djpeteski
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by djpeteski »

People download all kind of apps with their browser and the search results can be hijacked. This probably is what happened to your friend.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by jhfenton »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am
jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am The story doesn't make sense. Why would Schwab still not cancel the debit card immediately if it had been compromised?

Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
Turn off the debit capability of all your debit cards, making them ATM-only.
You're preaching to the choir.

I will ask again, but when I asked, the credit union said it didn't issue ATM-only cards any more. You would think they would have suggested blocking charges if that were an option.

Either way, my current bank debit card has never been used for a charge online or in person. And I have declined any HSA debit cards.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

djpeteski wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:19 am People download all kind of apps with their browser and the search results can be hijacked. This probably is what happened to your friend.
Possible, who knows.

I do have little sympathy for those that click on every link in emails though. My mother and her former partner clicked on every link they ever received, no matter how many times they were told it was a very bad idea (stronger language was used). Then they'd call and say their computer was messed up, and I'd laugh. They each paid the local computer guru multiple times to reformat their computers.

In addition, her former partner visited all sorts of "contest" websites, and used that computer to manage his account at Fidelity. They were using separate computers, so the risk was his alone, but talk about standing in the middle of a busy highway with a sign that says "hit me".

Mom got called one day by "Windows" and fell for that. Luckily she's never been given the logon information for her finances, which I managed and is now with an advisor.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:22 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am
jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am The story doesn't make sense. Why would Schwab still not cancel the debit card immediately if it had been compromised?

Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
Turn off the debit capability of all your debit cards, making them ATM-only.
You're preaching to the choir.

I will ask again, but when I asked, the credit union said it didn't issue ATM-only cards any more. You would think they would have suggested blocking charges if that were an option.

Either way, my current bank debit card has never been used for a charge online or in person. And I have declined any HSA debit cards.
I'm not talking about ATM-only cards. For example, Ally has Card Control where you can turn a card on or off, and if on specify locations, merchant types, transaction types, and spend limits. I have all of the categories set to Disabled. You can also set alerts (if you allow debit transactions).

It shocks me how clueless people are regarding this stuff, then they complain when they lose money that they easily could have stopped way in advance.
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surfstar
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by surfstar »

Sue them.

Customer service always "records calls for quality assurance" - subpoena the phone records and see if the reps misled A into believing their funds were safe.

A debit card in general is bad. A debit card that is tied to a large account is even worse. :oops:
MRMN
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by MRMN »

How in this scammer story did Schwab end up as the bad guy?

Sounds like Schwab was also a victim if someone was able to get in their systems and manipulate accounts.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by grettman »

[Comment removed by Moderator Misenplace]

I’m not saying OP is lying but something is missing.

I can’t change my phone number on my account without going through layers of security checks.
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JoeRetire
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by JoeRetire »

bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 amWhen he was on the phone with the fraudulent Apple support person, he realized what was going on but was not too worried because he only had a few dollars on his debit card.
:oops:
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Alan S.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by Alan S. »

Was there a PIN for the card?

A flyer should have been included with that card titled "Customer Rights and Liabilities" or similar if this is a very recent card. Friend should carefully review this to see if there is any recourse.
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by mcraepat9 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:29 am
jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:22 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am
jhfenton wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:16 am The story doesn't make sense. Why would Schwab still not cancel the debit card immediately if it had been compromised?

Either way, I will never have a cash management brokerage account with a debit card. I want an airgap between my large pots of money and any easy means of spending money. I don't even use my bank debit card except for ATM cash withdrawals. I want any fraud to occur on my credit cards.
Turn off the debit capability of all your debit cards, making them ATM-only.
You're preaching to the choir.

I will ask again, but when I asked, the credit union said it didn't issue ATM-only cards any more. You would think they would have suggested blocking charges if that were an option.

Either way, my current bank debit card has never been used for a charge online or in person. And I have declined any HSA debit cards.
I'm not talking about ATM-only cards. For example, Ally has Card Control where you can turn a card on or off, and if on specify locations, merchant types, transaction types, and spend limits. I have all of the categories set to Disabled. You can also set alerts (if you allow debit transactions).

It shocks me how clueless people are regarding this stuff, then they complain when they lose money that they easily could have stopped way in advance.
Yes the banks make it much more complicated than it has to be. Schwab will not issue ATM-only cards, but they will let you set a limit for POS (i.e. non-ATM) transactions, which I set at $0.01. You need to ask your credit union what limits you can set on debit card usage. Otherwise, it may be time to take your business elsewhere.
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JoeRetire
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by JoeRetire »

bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 amAt this point, Schwab is not taking responsibility, any possible remedies, fellow BHs?
No problem.

All A has to do is prove what he was told by the Schwab reps. And since he got it in writing, it should be easy.
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HomeStretch
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by HomeStretch »

I don’t think this is a “too clever” scam. A made a basic mistake in using an unverified number. The story A related to you sounds off in parts including continuing to talk to scammers once A realized what was going on.

Good luck to A. Hopefully the Schwab debit card has been shut down and A’s loss is no more than $10k.
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bertilak
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by bertilak »

bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 am So I heard another scam from a friend, let's call him A - who fell victim to the scam. Here is A's story.

A had some issues with an Apple product so he googled for Apple's customer service number and made a call. For some unknown reason, the first on the search result for his search is a fraudulent number pretending to be Apple customer service. So he called the fraudulent number and - long story short - gave out his debit card number.
I almost fell for this scam once. I could tell from the phone conversation something was wrong so hung up.

Getting Google to somehow put malicious sites at or near the top of search results is a good "social engineering" trick to get you to open up. I think product support searches are popular because one is likely to be flustered and anxious and may let one's guard down.

LESSON: Don't Trust Google searches!
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rascott
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by rascott »

This story makes zero sense. He calls Schwab and tells them his card has been compromised by a scammer (while he's still on the phone with the scammer).... and then Schwab says, ah.... it's fine... don't worry about it.

And to run a true debit transaction requires a pin number. Everything else would process as a credit and have the same fraud protection that a Visa/ MC credit card carries.

Finally.... even if it was a true debit fraud (which seems nonsensical to give a debit card plus pin number over the phone) ... federal law says you aren't liable if it's reported right away. Even if within 60 days of the fraud, if reported...$500 is the max liability.


So....uh what?
increment
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by increment »

rascott wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm He calls Schwab
Uh, how did he get Schwab's number? (By searching at Google?)
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jhfenton
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by jhfenton »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:29 am I'm not talking about ATM-only cards. For example, Ally has Card Control where you can turn a card on or off, and if on specify locations, merchant types, transaction types, and spend limits. I have all of the categories set to Disabled. You can also set alerts (if you allow debit transactions).

It shocks me how clueless people are regarding this stuff, then they complain when they lose money that they easily could have stopped way in advance.
I understand. Years ago, my debit card was cloned once, and I realized that it was not a good idea to have our checking account balance tied to numbers that we put out in the wild on a regular basis. (The credit union caught the fraudulent charges in Florida quickly, turned off the card, and reimbursed us. But I had still learned my lesson.)

Our credit union does not offer that level of control. I do have alerts set for any charges--of which there should be zero--and I never use the card. I will ask if they can block POS transactions or set a maximum at $0.01. :beer
H-Town
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by H-Town »

increment wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 pm
rascott wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm He calls Schwab
Uh, how did he get Schwab's number? (By searching at Google?)
LOL.

OP: Person A learned his lesson, which he paid $10k for. Hopefully he won't make the same mistake again.
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unclescrooge
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by unclescrooge »

bertilak wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:08 pm
bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 am So I heard another scam from a friend, let's call him A - who fell victim to the scam. Here is A's story.

A had some issues with an Apple product so he googled for Apple's customer service number and made a call. For some unknown reason, the first on the search result for his search is a fraudulent number pretending to be Apple customer service. So he called the fraudulent number and - long story short - gave out his debit card number.
I almost fell for this scam once. I could tell from the phone conversation something was wrong so hung up.

Getting Google to somehow put malicious sites at or near the top of search results is a good "social engineering" trick to get you to open up. I think product support searches are popular because one is likely to be flustered and anxious and may let one's guard down.

LESSON: Don't Trust Google searches!
+1

A lot of these malicious ad campaigns are set up over the weekend when monitoring is light and a skeletal support staff is employed that aren't very knowledgeable.
TropikThunder
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by TropikThunder »

Not to pile on to OP’s friend, but it boggles (Bogles? :P ) the mind that nobody thought to shut down the compromised debit card (Visa check card basically) immediately. OP says the transfer from the brokerage didn’t occur for a few days, no way the card should have still been active regardless if it only “had a few dollars on it”.
Last edited by TropikThunder on Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
randomguy
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by randomguy »

rascott wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:17 pm This story makes zero sense. He calls Schwab and tells them his card has been compromised by a scammer (while he's still on the phone with the scammer).... and then Schwab says, ah.... it's fine... don't worry about it.

And to run a true debit transaction requires a pin number. Everything else would process as a credit and have the same fraud protection that a Visa/ MC credit card carries.

Finally.... even if it was a true debit fraud (which seems nonsensical to give a debit card plus pin number over the phone) ... federal law says you aren't liable if it's reported right away. Even if within 60 days of the fraud, if reported...$500 is the max liability.


So....uh what?
Obviously they hacked his computer and he was actually talking to them and not Schwab. Seems crazy right? But to me that sounds a lot less crazy than someone at a financial instute saying not to worry about a compromised card:)

I do wish I could lock down my accounts so that they can only transfer money between them and authorized bank accounts and verify transfers over x size. There is a fine line between security and being too annoying but right now it seems like we are worried about annoyance a bit too much.
michaeljc70
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by michaeljc70 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am First, the Schwab debit card is linked to the brokerage account for overdrafts. So unless the victim didn't have that capability turned off, he did in fact give Schwab permission to do this.

Second, he should have immediately hung up the phone when he realized the issue, and asked Schwab to immediately block the debit card. Debit cards don't "have dollars on them", they are connected to accounts with dollars. By blocking the card, this could have all been averted.

I suspect the victim is elderly? So he was on two different calls, at once, trying to work things out, and he's got the story 100% straight? Seems doubtful.

A very expensive lesson for him to learn. Hopefully he takes steps in the future to be smarter.

Don't know what the OP knows about Schwab's authority on someone else's account besides second hand knowledge from someone that got scammed.

Tip - there is ZERO REASON to own a debit card. ZERO. If you want ATM access, either request an ATM card, or have the debit capabilities turned off on the debit card.
+1. Maybe "A" didn't realize this overdraft linkage?

I never use a debit card except at the ATM. There are just way less protections than with a credit card.
oldfatguy
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by oldfatguy »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am

Tip - there is ZERO REASON to own a debit card. ZERO. If you want ATM access, either request an ATM card, or have the debit capabilities turned off on the debit card.
There are still stores that do not take credit cards, and carrying cash or a checkbook with me would be inconvenient.
FI4LIFE
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by FI4LIFE »

My coworker, who is tech-illiterate got hit with the same exact scam...well maybe two separate scams in actuality. He received a (fraudulent) email from "Apple support" stating that his iPad had a virus and to call xyz phone number to have it fixed. Being weary of a scam, he googled "Apple support" and unknowingly clicked on an ad for what was likely a completely unrelated scam from the original. This ad will usually appear first in a Google search. This operation had him FaceTime with an "Apple employee" who was hot on the trail of the evil virus creator, but in the meantime, they needed access to his iPad to "clear the virus."

They charged him somewhere in the neighborhood of $700, payable only in iTunes gift cards :oops: . Since he is not tech savvy, and he had googled the site himself, his guard was down and he didn't catch on, even after two trips to the drug store to purchase the iTunes gift cards :oops: . If you Google "apple support" you will often see an ad pop up first, but the domain name will be obscure and will constantly change. I assume this is because Google is constantly shutting them down.
BogleMelon
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by BogleMelon »

bertilak wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:08 pm
bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 am So I heard another scam from a friend, let's call him A - who fell victim to the scam. Here is A's story.

A had some issues with an Apple product so he googled for Apple's customer service number and made a call. For some unknown reason, the first on the search result for his search is a fraudulent number pretending to be Apple customer service. So he called the fraudulent number and - long story short - gave out his debit card number.
I almost fell for this scam once. I could tell from the phone conversation something was wrong so hung up.

Getting Google to somehow put malicious sites at or near the top of search results is a good "social engineering" trick to get you to open up. I think product support searches are popular because one is likely to be flustered and anxious and may let one's guard down.

LESSON: Don't Trust Google searches!
It is not really google, it is the browser that is hijacked by a malware
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

For existing and new accounts I have started adding customer service numbers in the notes section of my LastPass passwords.

Some companies make it very hard to find their numbers, since if a customer found their contact number they might have to actually talk to their customer!

Lousy cowards! :annoyed

Broken Man 1999

ETA: I have never made a transaction via a debit card. Why would one willingly give up credit card safeguards, not to mention credit card rewards earned?
Last edited by Broken Man 1999 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by RickBoglehead »

oldfatguy wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:25 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am

Tip - there is ZERO REASON to own a debit card. ZERO. If you want ATM access, either request an ATM card, or have the debit capabilities turned off on the debit card.
There are still stores that do not take credit cards, and carrying cash or a checkbook with me would be inconvenient.
I don't know of any stores that take debit cards but not credit cards, but since I don't carry a debit card, and have any debit cards I own limited to ATM function only, that store would not get my business. The only place I pay cash is at a small restaurant that doesn't take credit. I never pay with check, I don't carry any.
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oldfatguy
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by oldfatguy »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:52 pm
oldfatguy wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:25 pm
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am

Tip - there is ZERO REASON to own a debit card. ZERO. If you want ATM access, either request an ATM card, or have the debit capabilities turned off on the debit card.
There are still stores that do not take credit cards, and carrying cash or a checkbook with me would be inconvenient.
I don't know of any stores that take debit cards but not credit cards, but since I don't carry a debit card, and have any debit cards I own limited to ATM function only, that store would not get my business. The only place I pay cash is at a small restaurant that doesn't take credit. I never pay with check, I don't carry any.
The regional grocery store chain that I prefer in my area takes only debit, cash, or check. It's the only place I ever use my debit card, but it is 2-3 purchases each week.
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gwe67
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by gwe67 »

Maybe he googled and called a fake Schwab phone number.
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celia
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Re: another too clever scam

Post by celia »

bernoulli wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:03 am A had some issues with an Apple product so he googled for Apple's customer service number and made a call. For some unknown reason, the first on the search result for his search is a fraudulent number pretending to be Apple customer service. So he called the fraudulent number and - long story short - gave out his debit card number.
...and when he googled Schwab’s customer service number, the first number shown was likely fraudulent, because his computer has probably been hacked.

I wonder if the ‘fake’ Schwab representative asked him his security questions to confirm it is him. Sounds like he should find a ‘real’ representative to help him change them, sign up for voice verification, and get his computer cleaned up. Also while talking to a real Schwab person, ask them what else he can do to protect his accounts.

He may also want to find out exactly what phone numbers he called. If not legitimate parties, he can report this to the police/local authorities. It won’t get his money back, but they want to know about scams like this so they can warn others.
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