Boglehead Pilots...advice

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doneat53
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Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by doneat53 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:28 pm

I'm planning on getting my pilot's license. My father flew and owned a 206 so I'm familiar with and comfortable with small planes. There are several flight schools in my area and with the research I've done I think I can map out a plan but I could use some advice from veteran pilots and those that have recently obtained a license as to the best approach.

I've put my name on a wait list to become part of a flying club. The wait may be as long as a year. I'd like to at a minimum complete ground school and possibly even start flight training with another service while I wait. Can folks give me some advice on the following?:

1.) Are online ground schools any better or worse than formal class organized ones? The online course I'm thinking of is this one http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/main/sto ... t240010_ca and the formal class that I could sign up with apparently uses the same manual. I think I'm leaning toward the formal class.

2.) I'm a little concerned that I'll complete ground school well ahead of flight training and will be rusty when it becomes necessary to apply the knowledge. Is it better to take ground school concurrent with flight training, just before flight training, or does it not really matter as you are reviewing it anyway right before each lesson?

3.) I'm a little amazed at the cost of all this and would like to minimize it without compromising the process. Any advice here? It looks like plane rental plus instructor time will be ~200/hr. From what I read 65 hours is average for completion.

4.) I anticipate flying high wing cessina's so plan to train in one... does it matter whether I train in a 162, 172, 182? (rental costs increase as the size of the plane increases so I plan on just training in a 162.

5.) Any advice on what to watch out for in this process? How does one gauge the abilities of an instructor that you don't know?

Thanks for considering my questions.

doneat

neilpilot
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by neilpilot » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:45 pm

Since I did my basic training almost 50 years ago, my advice is limited and my opinion:
doneat53 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:28 pm

2.) I'm a little concerned that I'll complete ground school well ahead of flight training and will be rusty when it becomes necessary to apply the knowledge. Is it better to take ground school concurrent with flight training, just before flight training, or does it not really matter as you are reviewing it anyway right before each lesson?
I'd advise completing the majority of your ground school before actual flight training. The flight training is too expensive to reduce it's efficiency, i.e. the more you can learn prior to actual flight training the less actual aircraft time you should require.
3.) I'm a little amazed at the cost of all this and would like to minimize it without compromising the process. Any advice here? It looks like plane rental plus instructor time will be ~200/hr. From what I read 65 hours is average for completion.
If you know it's something you will do thru completion, consider buying into a partnership or into a flying club where the aircraft is owned by the members. I never actually rented a plane; always flew in club-owned aircraft. That's the way to control cost. However, try to find a mentor you can trust so you get into a partnership that's suited for learning and has decent equipment and maintenance.

4.) I anticipate flying high wing cessina's so plan to train in one... does it matter whether I train in a 162, 172, 182? (rental costs increase as the size of the plane increases so I plan on just training in a 162.you canlearn in any of these, but the 152/162/172 with a fixed pitch prop will be a bit easier than in the 182.

5.) Any advice on what to watch out for in this process? How does one gauge the abilities of an instructor that you don't know? If you possibly can, find an older experienced instructor who is doing it because they want to instruct. It can be a problem working with an inexperienced instructor who's doing it to build time and move on to charter or commuter airline work. Of course, there are exceptions and a younger instructor can be fine, so long as they stay with you for the duration.

BTW one way to minimize cost is to fly frequently. If you space your lessons too far apart, you will find that you forget things and need to repeat topics. That will usually mean you will need more hours total to qualify. Also, get your flight physical soon after you begin instruction, to avoid any delays when you are ready to transition to solo.


Thanks for considering my questions.

doneat

random_name
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by random_name » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:08 pm

My opinions, as an instrument-rated owner of an old Cessna 150 and and old 172.

1) Find out from your potential instructor which ground school they prefer. Or, if you are self-motivated, buy a book on Amazon and teach yourself. The information is all drawn from the same FAA source. ASA is the cheapest, Rod Machado's book is the most entertaining, Kershner's is a classic (I used this one for my private license in 2002), Jeppesen is expensive but might be a good choice if you're planning to be a professional pilot. I don't know what's available online, I'm old-fashioned and like to read.

2) I recommend reading your new book through a time or two, starting as soon as possible. Then you will pay your instructor to answer your questions on whatever you don't understand, instead of paying them to teach you. The instructor will be happy to charge you by the hour for time on the ground, I prefered to use them only in the airplane, as much as possible. Start learning the phonetic alphabet by reading license plates as you are driving around town.

3) Consider buying a 152 or 172. In round numbers, $20k to $35k investment which you will recoup when you sell, $1k to $4k per year in maintenance and tiedown, fly whenever you wish for only the cost of gas (say $5/gal, 9 gal/hour = $45 per hour). If you're planning to fly more than 100 hours per year, you may be pleased with ownership vs renting. The flying club may be the way to go, of course.

4) You should have no trouble training in a 150, 152, 172, or 182. They all fly close enough to the same. I don't have any experience with the 162. The bigger planes carry a little more inertia into the flare when landing, and when you level off to cruise the airspeed will climb higher. Otherwise, in the pattern they handle very similarly. If the 182 has a constant-speed prop, it may not be as useful as a trainer.

5) Ask everyone you can find at the airport their opinion of the instructors at your airport and any nearby fields. Some give military-style instruction, requiring rigidity and lots of rote. Others are more practical and will be more relaxed. Pick one that matches your style. Don't be afraid to shop around, you will be paying them a lot.

BoulderTrojan
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by BoulderTrojan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:20 pm

I flight instructed for many years. I recommend completing the written exam asap, preferably before you start flying. Unfortunately most flight instructors aren't very good. Try to find the most experienced one you can provided you like his style/personality. Once you start flying you must fly 3 times a week minimum until solo (15-20 hours.) 3 times a week is necessary to build the necessary perceptions. Once you start doing landings LOOK AT THE FAR END OF THE RUNWAY when you begin to flare near the ground. You will waste hours trying to learn landings if you aren't disciplined with where you are looking. I can simplify the private pilot training to 8 words, LOOK AT THE FAR END OF THE RUNWAY. Have fun!

swengineer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by swengineer » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:05 pm

I did my training nearly 20 years ago, but still fly regularly, so the training info may be out of date.

There are a number of ground school options in addition to the Jepesen courses. I took ground school through the local community education program with about eight others. A CFII taught the course used the King videos (on VHS) and then we did the example questions together in class. It was nice to do it in a group, as you got to hear all the questions and answers. There are a couple of free options to look at if you want to save a few dollars. Most of these are really teaching to the written test, so they make a good review before taking the test.

When you complete ground school, you'll be endorsed to take the written test. You'll need to pass the written and the medical exam before you can solo in flight training. You have two years from passing the written to completing your flight training before having to take the written again. I completed flight training in about eight months. My wife started a few months before I did and completed her training about the same time. She didn't fly in the winter as much as I did. Do try to fly a couple times a week, once a week isn't quite enough to build the sight pictures into your head.

Consider joining APOA or EAA. They have some flight training resources as well. Getting your pilots license is really a license to learn, so establishing some conduits for continuing education early is a good thing. You might even teach your flight instructor something every once in a while. There are also clubs for the various aircraft manufacturers. When you find out what you will be flying, consider joining one of these.

65 hours for the private is about right. I suspect all flight schools now use headsets and airplanes with an intercom system. You may be able to borrow/rent a headset for a few hours of training, but I suspect you will want your own. Good ANR makes a difference for me, and is worth it. Think about what kind of airplane you will fly, do you want to learn on the older round gauges, or on the newer flat panels? Planes with the old round gauges will be cheaper to rent/purchase. Flying with the flat panels may require additional training hours in addition to the greater per hour costs. I'd suggest learning on the older round gauges, as it will give you a larger pool of aircraft you can fly.

Garmin and the other avionics manufacturers have their user guides online. Once you find out what your training aircraft has for equipment, go download the user guides and work with your instructor to figure out what you need to know to operate the equipment. This may save you a few hours/$ on the ground plugged into a battery cart learning the equipment.

Navigation has changed dramatically since the iPad came out, there are several apps for the iPad (ForeFlight, WingX, fltplan.com, Garmin) that make navigation much easier and safer. But they take time to learn to use, so budget for that time and try to do as much on the ground as you can. If you will be flying in busy airspace, learning in a plane that has traffic displayed and learning how to quickly spot the aircraft out the windshield is a good skill.

If you are learning to fly to travel, budget time and money and plan to get your instrument rating right after your private pilot. Pilots without an instrument rating flying into instrument conditions have a high rate of fatalities. A former partner in our plane did not have an instrument rating and spent days waiting for weather to clear that he could have flown in with an instrument rating. With my instrument rating, I have waited for thunderstorms, hurricane remnants or ice in the clouds to pass so I could go, so the instrument rating doesn't always help. I did a lot of my instrument training at night (it was winter and it was dark after work) I ended up doing my instrument check ride at night as well because the examiner's schedule changed at the last minute. If your instructor and examiner are comfortable with it, it's often less bumpy and you can't see much outside anyway so you really learn to use the instruments. Sometimes my wife rode along on the instrument training flights and she and the instructor provided many distractions, which you need to learn to ignore.

Learn the aircraft systems well and learn to troubleshoot problems, this is not taught in ground school or flight school as well as it should be from reading the accident reports. AOPA Magazine has a nice column, titled Never Again that is a good learning tool.

You can have lots of fun flying and see things that many folks don't get to see. I have great memories of flying over the Grand Canyon, taking turns with my wife to fly or gawk. My six year old nephew always is up for a flight, even when it's bumpy, and I'm happy to share it with him.

rvflyer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by rvflyer » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:30 pm

All I will add is go get your medical to start with so you know you meet the physical requirements before spending another penny. If I missed that in all the above comments sorry for the redundancy. Go have fun!

SailingTahoe
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by SailingTahoe » Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:41 pm

I did my ppl in the past two years. This is what I did or should of done. No need for formal ground school especially if you don't need your hand held to study. Cfi should be for questions only. Most of this has already been written but easier to put it all in one place as thinking about it.
1. Buy the faa published handbooks and read them. These are available for free online. Ie airplane flying handbook and phak.
2. Use YouTube to supplement. So much online. Look up cyndy hollman.
3. Take sporty practice test for free. Take test early and often. I probably did 2 test a day for 2 months.
4. Buy the asa private pilot test prep https://www.asa2fly.com/Test-Prep-2019- ... 30C22.aspx. This is key you take the test and you can get signed off for free to take written.
5. When you continuelly score in the 90's take written.
6. Show up with written and medical done. This shows your cfi you are serious. So many students aren't.
7. It's about 1 college course of information. So it's not a ton but you must view it as such.
8. Have enough money to complete the flying part. Currently probably about 10000. Like mentioned 2x week min probably no more than 3x week.
9. Buy the asa oral guide but it doesn't supplant the need to become intimate with the far/aim.
10. Buy or download the acs and use it to prep for checkride. I would look over this at the beginning of training. It spells it all out.

I wouldn't recommend buying. It's a gamble if anything major would break. If plane goes down you might be renting anyways. The advice I received is always buy your second plane so skip the trainer. Plus you would rather bounce your club planes. Also would you have access to a cfi in your plane.

Have fun.

Zonian59
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Zonian59 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:58 am

I have a pilot friend who started out learning to fly first in gliders, then after mastering soaring, transitioned to powered aircraft.
He felt that soaring taught him how to fly in all kinds of weather including turbulence and gave him a greater cognizant of weather conditions. And should the engine ever quit during flight, he was very confident in handling that situation.

Also, read "Stick and Rudder: An Explanation of the Art of Flying" by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Yes, it's a real oldie, but the basic fundamentals of flying are still relevant.

dominque
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by dominque » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:43 am

As a CFII, I totally agree with flying at least three times per week with your selected instructor. Try to find an instructor that instructs because he/she loves it. Many instructors are just building time for the airlines and that's probably worse today given the shortage of pilots.

No problem completing ground school ahead of time. I like the Jepp series and also recommend Dr. Gleim's series of ground school products.
https://www.gleimaviation.com/pilot-tra ... ate-pilot/

I wish you the very best and don't get discouraged with the inevitable learning plateaus.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by oldcomputerguy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:46 am

I took my certificate a couple of decades ago, so my experience with training is not up to date. But here are a few thoughts, for what they're worth.

Getting the ground training done ahead of time is a very good idea. The stuff you'll do in the cockpit will make a lot more sense, and those flying hours are too expensive to waste any time trying to figure out stuff that you could learn on the ground.

If possible, do your flight hours at an airport with an active control tower. Learning at an uncontrolled field, then having to learn to talk to ATC during a cross-country trip can be unnerving, something you don't want to happen in the cockpit. Getting experience with communications procedures for Ground, Tower, Approach/Departure, and ATIS will go a long way toward teaching you to function in the national airspace.

As a beginning pilot, I had a strong tendency to stare at the instruments. I suppose this came from my playing around with Microsoft Flight Simulator. It took about ten hours of actual flight time for the light bulb to light; I needed to look out the window. Your flight hours will be to learn how to fly VFR, the "V" standing for "Visual". Look out the window. Do not concentrate on the artificial horizon, the vertical speed indicator, the gyro compass, or any of those other fancy instruments. For VFR flight, you'll look occasionally at the airspeed indicator, the altimeter, and the magnetic compass, and you'll look out the window. (During my night-time training, my instructor took us to a small local uncontrolled field for touch-and-goes. One night, as I was lining up on final approach for the runway, the instructor asked me if I had seen "Star Wars". I told him I had. He reached across and hit the master switch, which killed every light in the cockpit, and said "Use the Force, Luke!". I landed without being able to see a single instrument. He forced me to look out the window.)

Strong ditto on others' recommendations for older, more experienced instructors. There's a saying that stuck with me: "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." One of the most famous flight instructors was Evelyn Bryan "Mama Bird" Johnson, who managed the Morristown TN airport and gave flying instruction well into her nineties.

As for flying with a flying club, yes, it's one way to help defray some of the cost and amortize it among multiple members. But be careful, do your research. My sole experience with a flight club was not good. Before I settled on flying with the local Part 141 school, I checked out our local flying club, who had a grass strip and several aircraft, and who were just under the skirt of the local ARSA. At the one meeting I attended, there was a discussion on what to do about one of the planes that had a bad starter motor. Rather than get the problem fixed properly, the membership voted that they would just hand-prop that plane going forward. I left and never went back; it was obvious that safety took a back seat there.

Pay attention to weather reports. The most trouble I ever got into was because I thought I didn't need to. I had progressed far enough into my training that I was allowed to go up solo and do airwork whenever I wanted. I showed up one bright, sunny spring day at the airport, ceiling and visibility unlimited, and looked forward to a fun day. But I had neglected to do a proper weather briefing. I figured I didn't need it, since skies were clear and blue, and I was just going up to do basic practice in the airport vicinity. What I didn't know was that a cold front had gone through the night before (which accounted for the clear skies), but the winds behind the cold front were quite strong about about 400 feet above ground. This caused great wind shear and turbulence. I took off without incident, but it took me three tries to land once. I am not being flippant when I say that I had some serious discussions with God while trying to land.

Good luck with your training. Mine was some of the most fun I've ever had in my sixty-plus years.
"I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." (Aaron Sorkin)

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JupiterJones
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by JupiterJones » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:26 am

Another vote for just studying the ground school material on your own, if that works for you. I read Machado's book and watched the Sporty's videos (on DVD back then). I think I might've watched some of the King videos too. Studied the FAA books too. Anything I could get my hands on, really. Wound up acing the written.

I remember also getting this wonderful audio study material from somewhere. It was on cassette tape! Full of great mnemonic tricks like visualizing not being able to get in the plane because there was a giant log stuck in the cabin, so you had to "get that log out of there" before you could fly. I will now always remember that your log book is not one of the required documents to have on board. 8-) Wish I could remember where I got that tape and who made it...

Oh, and I'll second the excellent and timeless "Stick and Rudder". Maybe not as necessary for your written, but it can't hurt and you're going to want to buy a copy at some point anyway.
Stay on target...

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doneat53
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by doneat53 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:18 am

Wow, thank you everyone for all the tips and information. This is VERY helpful. I sort of thought the response would be generous as my father used to love to talk about flying, give advice to young pilots, and always welcomed them into the "club". I wish he was still around to teach me some basics and for us to experience the shared interest.

doneat

tim1999
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by tim1999 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:24 am

Get the medical exam done and passed before you spend another ounce of money or effort otherwise on this.

fullscalepilot
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by fullscalepilot » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:55 pm

Long time lurker, but an aviation discussion was enough to get me registered. :)

Congrats on taking the plunge. I got my PPL two years ago and I still think its one of the coolest thing I've ever done.

Here is my usual recommendations to new pilots. Most is already covered in the excellent advice already given above.
  • Get your medical ASAP.
  • Make sure you have at least $10k saved up. Don't be tempted to put your training on the credit card. (not really an issue for this forum)
  • Study/take the written ASAP. Don't pay an instructor for this. I used a combination of Cyndy Hollman and Sporty's $100 app, which I think was a good investment.
  • Familiarize yourself with the ACS sooner than later. This will help you understand what will be expected on your checkride.
  • Begin studying the ASA Blue Book (oral study guide) once finished with the written.
  • Have fun and enjoy the process. Your spending way too much money not to have the time of your life.
To answer your questions specifically:
1. No, but they are more convenient. I used Sporty's and have no regrets.

2. Once you complete ground school, you should start studying for the oral exam. See above.

3. Flying Clubs are the best way to minimize costs in my opinion. I paid about $130-140 for a well equipped 172 with the instructor. I toyed with buying a plane...but couldn't handle the risk of unexpected repairs. A rebuilt motor costs more than most of the planes I looked at.

4. Try to fly the same plane each time. It'll make you much more confident on the checkride. The 152 was a bit small for me and an instructor. The 172 seemed to be a perfect compromise between cost and comfort.

5. Don't be bashful when interviewing instructors. Ask for references. Talk to other people at the airport. It's rare, but I've heard horror stories of instructors "milking" students for hours via unnecessary ground school or not signing you off for solo, solo xc, or your checkride when the student is obviously ready. If you find yourself in this situation, fly with another instructor for a 2nd opinion.


I'm envious...I was flying 2-3 times per week while training. Now I'm lucky to fly 2-3 times a month. Enjoy it!

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:29 pm

It sounds like you have done your research. I got bored after finishing grad school in 2013. Decided the end of 2014 to get my pilot license.

I spent around $14K total including all the things I had to buy to get into flying a little with my own gear. It was a great experience and I would do it all over again. Now with license in hand.. I don't fly all that much.. but there is nothing better than being able to fly 2 hours into the mountains and go back country plane camping !!!

The experiences are priceless.

cheers!!

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BolderBoy
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by BolderBoy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:43 pm

I learned to fly in the 1970s. Even got an instrument rating. Great fun.

1. Get your medical first.

2. A 162 is fine for your private ticket.

3. Be honest with yourself about flying. I was a lousy pilot (the spirits saved my butt numerous times until I got the message and quit flying.) If you decide you're a lousy pilot, quit flying.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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Mel Lindauer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:54 pm

You've received a lot of good advice. I would add that you should make sure you not only have enough to pay for the Private, but also enough for an Instrument rating. Getting an instrument rating is, IMO, the best investment you'll ever make. It can save your life and the lives of those flying with (and below) you.

One other thing I haven't seen mentioned. I used the GI Bill to pay for 90% of my Commercial, Instrument, Multi-Engine, Flight Instructor Airplanes SMEL, Flight Instructor Instruments, a Seaplane rating and finally, tooling around working on a Lear type rating. So for those who earned it by serving in the Armed Forces, don't let it go to waste. (Since you can't make a living as a Private pilot, you have to pay for that, but it will pay for all of your advanced ratings.)
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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doneat53
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by doneat53 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:13 pm

What is the additional cost of an instrument rating? How many hours of instructor time and is there another written etc just like the private license?

I agree with the plan that instrument rating will likely be necessary. I'm on the coast and weather will keep me on the ground a lot without an instrument rating. I'm taking one step at a time but likely this will be a bit of a slippery slope.

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by fru-gal » Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:17 pm

dominque wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:43 am
As a CFII, I totally agree with flying at least three times per week with your selected instructor.
I don't believe this is necessary, especially if price is an object. I took lessons about once a week, as a member of a flying club.

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Mel Lindauer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:17 pm
dominque wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:43 am
As a CFII, I totally agree with flying at least three times per week with your selected instructor.
I don't believe this is necessary, especially if price is an object. I took lessons about once a week, as a member of a flying club.
I agree. I got all of my.ratings flying one day a week most of the time. However, the more often you fly, especially when working on your instrument rating, the sharper you'll probably be.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by gd » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:08 pm

Ah geez, wanted to go to bed in the next hour.... actually some pretty good advice here. Not entirely. I'll start with my usual BH reply, which is that if you don't disclose where you are, some of the advice given you is marginal. Garbage in, garbage out.

200/hr for instruction is pretty reasonable, depending, see above. I pay my plumber 90/hr, and my airplane mechanic 96. My lawyers charge, what, 200-500/hr, charge for time spent putting stamps on envelopes, and they don't do stuff that my literal survival depends on. In the usual situation, you'll end up thinking you're paying 55-65/hr, and if you think about the time you suck up from a good CFI, more like 40-50/hr tops. And if they work for a school, they're getting the minority of that. If you begrudge paying them for their time-- all of their time-- you deserve what you'll probably get.

I've known kids right out of flight school who were excellent instructors, and grizzled veterans who were absolute a-hole menaces. It is true some experience gives you a buffer. There is no guarantee for success here. Use your intuition. A good instructor is half applied psychologist, whether they are conscious of this or not, and that's pretty easy to see if you're attentive. Make your needs known to the instructor before you condemn them. They can't read your mind.

There are free-lance instructors who are excellent, but you'll up your chances by picking a school serious about their methodology. "Part 141" is a useful clue, referring to FAA licensing requiring a more organized syllabus, process and facilities. Ignore claims of faster completion. If you're using a time-building kid, that *might* help continuity when they leave for an airline job. Such a school may not be available to you, but who knows, see first comment.

65 hours is a reasonable starting point, depending strongly on location and circumstances. See top. Really important point: unless this is a dumb bucket list thing, you're going to be spending a lot every year afterwards as well. Yeah it's expensive to learn, but it's also expensive to continue. If you don't have 5k to 15k/year, every year, it's a one-time bucket list thing.

THE TIME IT TAKES YOU TO GET YOUR LICENSE DOESN"T MATTER. I'm shouting here. It's a lifelong activity. The time you spend as a student is the most valuable time you will spend in an airplane.

Find an airport/school, and use their recommended materials to prep.

Forget youtube. Really. Please. Unless your instructor steers you to it, the guy who makes that video isn't the guy keeping you alive.

PC sims, on the other hand, can be useful for some advanced topics if your instructor collaborates with you. Professional-quality sims in schools as well, depending on staff. Actual real life value is pretty spotty, unfortunately.

Keep a notebook. Debrief yourself after every lesson. Review the notebook before every lesson. Do your homework. Come prepared. If you don't have a list of questions to start every lesson, you aren't serious. If your instructor doesn't attend to your questions and respect your efforts, get a new instructor. This, BTW, is the single best way I know to increase your skill/knowledge to cost ratio.

If your instructor does not do a careful, thoughtful preflight and postflight ground briefing, get a new instructor. Maybe not every single time, but most times. If you don't want to pay for it, all of it, you deserve the results you'll get. This is also a good indicator of a good school BTW, the school expects every instructor to do this.

I don't agree about rushing to instrument ratings. Aerobatics, gliders, tailwheel or high performance endorsements, or just get some time flying on your own. If you want to be one of those airline guys who crash when the instruments break because they learned to play a video game, sure, go for it.

nordsteve
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by nordsteve » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:00 pm

I want to echo the other posters who suggested joining a flying club. The club I'm routinely sends 40 hour private candidates to successful examinations. All of the instructors in the club do so because they love it...not to build time on the way to their pilot career.

jbmitt
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by jbmitt » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:48 pm

I did my private training part 61, and I'm completing my instrument, commercial, and multi part 141. There is lots of good advice about obtaining your medical, taking your written exams, using the ASA Oral Exam Guides. I've had good luck using Sheppard Air for instrument on up test prep. They don't offer private test prep. I used Sporty's to supplement my ppl studying. Come to your lessons prepared, learning in the airplane isn't as effective as refreshing what you already know.

If you have any thought about pursuing flying professionally, at a minimum get your 2nd class medical, but be prepared for your 1st class medical and EKG as needed. Unfortunately, I seen this ground people that wanted more than a hobby.

Blue skies and tailwinds!

4nwestsaylng
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by 4nwestsaylng » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:13 am

BolderBoy wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:43 pm
I learned to fly in the 1970s. Even got an instrument rating. Great fun.

1. Get your medical first.

2. A 162 is fine for your private ticket.

3. Be honest with yourself about flying. I was a lousy pilot (the spirits saved my butt numerous times until I got the message and quit flying.) If you decide you're a lousy pilot, quit flying.
I have lost two very good professional friends to flying. One went down in his King Air, after over twenty years of flying, seven minutes after takeoff. No radio call, it may have been a medical problem. He was about 52. The other had fifteen years of weekly flying, went down in a snowstorm. He was 50.

I used to ride in friends' private planes. Now I only fly commercial.

EdNorton
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by EdNorton » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:29 am

I'm not a pilot but my sister and brother-in-law both fly jets. BIL flew a chopper in first golf war. Neither of them will fly in a small plane, says far too dangerous.
Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend, inside a dog, it's too dark to read - Groucho

dominque
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by dominque » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:28 am

Mel Lindauer wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:34 pm
fru-gal wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:17 pm
dominque wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:43 am
As a CFII, I totally agree with flying at least three times per week with your selected instructor.
I don't believe this is necessary, especially if price is an object. I took lessons about once a week, as a member of a flying club.
I agree. I got all of my.ratings flying one day a week most of the time. However, the more often you fly, especially when working on your instrument rating, the sharper you'll probably be.
I concur if price is an object. I guess it's probably my frustration with having to "re-teach" procedures when working with once a week students. The Hobbs meter doesn't stop when the engine is running.

Daryl
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Daryl » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:54 am

My glider club lost a tow pilot / plane several years ago and that wasn't our only major incident. Another local club is unable to obtain insurance on reasonable terms after a series of losses involving aircraft and/or crew. I always assume that the pilots involved in these accidents were far more qualified than I ever will be. I want to understand the decisions they made on the ground, prior to their final flight. How did they make that "go/no go" decision? What did they see/hear in flight? How did they react? How would I react in a similar situation? Would I have a similar outcome? Why or why not? What can I learn from their experience? How can I share this knowledge with others before I/they have a similar experience? How can we become a better flying community?

Private PIlot (ASEL), working on my glider add-on, and striving to become a more proficient pilot each day.

Spyder59
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Spyder59 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:30 am

My advice after 35 years of flying:

1) Make sure you have adequate life insurance if you have a family. Accidents are rare, but we have all lost friends if you fly long enough.

2). Really learn to fly. With today’s technology and airspace complexity, it is easy to get caught up in these things without first actually becoming a good pilot. I owned a variety of Cessna aircraft. The best trainer is the least stable aircraft, something like a 150 or 152. The larger aircraft are almost too stable when you are starting out.

I suggest you consider picking up your glider rating first, or at least soloing in a glider before moving on to the noise and distraction of a power plane. Second, get a few lessons in aerobatics. Getting familiar with unusual attitudes is important, at least so you are comfortable with spins and how to get out of them. Pick a good aerobatic school, a lot of instructors can have barely spun a plane themselves and are not competent to teach spin training.

3). If you are planning on doing some real traveling, make sure you put in some real panel time before you head off. Preferably in actual IMC conditions. It could save your life. Also, I think it is helpful to have flown a bit in very busy airports during your training. I learned in a rural state, and even with a tower I was a bit intimidated about flying into very busy space and it wasn’t until I got my instrument rating that I fully felt comfortable.

4). Fly, fly and fly more. To be safe, especially I your first couple of hundred hours, you need to maintain your currency by flying fairly frequently. If you can’t, go up with an instructor for an hour to refresh yourself.

5). Have fun! A plane was a big part of my family’s life. A lot of great memories and never lost the wonder and thrill of flying. A wonderful activity!

jimcrawford01
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by jimcrawford01 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:58 am

EdNorton wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:29 am
I'm not a pilot but my sister and brother-in-law both fly jets. BIL flew a chopper in first golf war. Neither of them will fly in a small plane, says far too dangerous.
Dangerous? Really? I think not. Risky, of course.
General Aviation flying is not a risk free activity. Driving your car to the store is not a risk free activity.
The key is to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level.
Safety is a relative term. What is safe to one person may not be deemed safe to another.
Lots of good advice in this thread.
Enjoy the challenge! And have fun!
Jim

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by fru-gal » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:19 am

jimcrawford01 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:58 am
EdNorton wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:29 am
I'm not a pilot but my sister and brother-in-law both fly jets. BIL flew a chopper in first golf war. Neither of them will fly in a small plane, says far too dangerous.
Dangerous? Really? I think not. Risky, of course.
General Aviation flying is not a risk free activity. Driving your car to the store is not a risk free activity.
The key is to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level.
Safety is a relative term. What is safe to one person may not be deemed safe to another.
Lots of good advice in this thread.
Enjoy the challenge! And have fun!
Jim
I also really doubt that. I flew 150s and a Champ. One thing they can do is glide; I am not aware of any helicopter that is anything but a rock if it loses power. And small planes don't decide to dive into the ground, like one large plane I could name.

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JupiterJones
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by JupiterJones » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:45 am

fru-gal wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:19 am
I flew 150s and a Champ. One thing they can do is glide; I am not aware of any helicopter that is anything but a rock if it loses power.
Well, they become rocks that can autorotate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation 8-)

But yeah, I consider flying to have a perfectly acceptable degree of risk when flown by a capable and careful pilot. It's funny how people tend to think of sorta-risky-but-unusual activities as being more dangerous than sorta-risky-but-common activities.
Stay on target...

TheLaughingCow
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by TheLaughingCow » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:26 am

Flying a private aircraft has a fatality rate nearly 20x higher than driving a car, per hour. I would imagine some of this could be mitigated by not flying solo (where any medical problem could lead to loss of control), avoiding marginal weather, and through experience and good maintenance. Also you could get an aircraft with a system like the CAPS on the SR22. Though many accidents occur close to the ground on takeoff and landing where such a system won't work.

But if you enjoy it, go for it. We all carry a 100% risk of dying eventually.

knightrider
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by knightrider » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:38 am

I've always wondered if people have lost interest in flying now that FPV drones are so cheap? At least for me, doing aerial photography with drones completely satisfies my itch to learn to fly..

I once took a bunch of hang gliding lessons and found the whole process quite difficult. One needs to make it your #1 and only passion otherwise you will be dead...

Stereofun
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Stereofun » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:44 am

Been flying since 1994, including commercial as a taxi pilot. Nowadays I instruct for fun as a part time basis - my 2 cents:

Learn the first rule of flying which is: What makes makes aircraft fly ? - Answer, MONEY !

Many folks underestimate the cost of flying all the way from initial licensing to unexpected maintenance bills. Joying a flying club is the smartest way to go. As for the initial licensing, I'd spent an hour or two with an instructor first in the air - surely the flying club will have some suggestions of a good one. From that experience you can easier judge whats involved and if you can see yourself doing this and as a side bonus get to know that instructor a bit and see if he or she would be the right one.

If you decide to go ahead I'd study online, supplemented with an hours ground school here and there from your chosen instructor. I believe it makes a difference to initially have the theoretical foundation anchored before the actual flying, which will allow to focus more on the practical side . As many others have commented, recency is important, that you get into a set schedule without too much delay in between lessons...another reason it nice to get the theory out of the way first.

Now - there are other alternatives if flying is just for you and one friend. Then you can go the sport pilot route, with a license that takes about half the commitment of a private license as for time and money. The most important limitation of that license is that you are limited to carrying one passenger, which most of us do 80-90% of the time anyway and that the aircraft you fly have to be in the category of a LSA (light sport aircraft) - I believe the 162 is an LSA and can be flown with just a sport pilot license.

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by fru-gal » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:22 pm

knightrider wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:38 am
I once took a bunch of hang gliding lessons and found the whole process quite difficult. One needs to make it your #1 and only passion otherwise you will be dead...
I've done both and imho hang gliding is much more dangerous. I gave it up for that reason.

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:40 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:22 pm
knightrider wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:38 am
I once took a bunch of hang gliding lessons and found the whole process quite difficult. One needs to make it your #1 and only passion otherwise you will be dead...
I've done both and imho hang gliding is much more dangerous. I gave it up for that reason.
Agree. You couldn't pay me to hang glide.

On the other hand, with over 3500 flight hours, I never once felt that flying was risky. (Well, maybe once when flying over the Caribbean in a single engine Cherokee 6 and seeing sharks in the water below. I remember thinking "Engine, don't fail me now!")
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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BolderBoy
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by BolderBoy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:04 pm

4nwestsaylng wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:13 am
BolderBoy wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:43 pm
3. Be honest with yourself about flying. I was a lousy pilot (the spirits saved my butt numerous times until I got the message and quit flying.) If you decide you're a lousy pilot, quit flying.
I have lost two very good professional friends to flying. One went down in his King Air, after over twenty years of flying, seven minutes after takeoff. No radio call, it may have been a medical problem. He was about 52. The other had fifteen years of weekly flying, went down in a snowstorm. He was 50.

I used to ride in friends' private planes. Now I only fly commercial.
Some clues that I was a lousy pilot:

(not instrument rated at the time)

Flying a Piper PA28 south through the west side of the DC corridor, in the dark (ceiling and visibility were unlimited), talking with ATC for 'radar advisories'. I asking ATC what the REALLY bright landing lights ahead of me were. He said it was a 747 that should pass over me easily... except that I was misreading the altimeter. I kept asking and he kept reassuring me until finally he asked me to look at the alt VERY CLOSELY. When I reported the 2000 foot mistake he calmly said, "DESCEND immediately, I repeat IMMEDIATELY..." Gulp.

Another time I was flying the same plane from RIC -> north central PA (a semi-mountainous area), again in the dark. Had a passenger who wanted to be dropped off at a small airport. I misread the altimeter again and instead of circling the airport at the required 1200 feet, I was circling it at 200 feet. My passenger asked if the trees he could see should look that close and a guy on the ground standing on the runway between the lights was waving his arms about frantically. I quickly climbed up to where I was suppose to be. Reading altimeters was a problem for me.

Another time I was again flying from Virginia -> PA. Clear "cloudless" night, around midnight and I was at 5000ish feet. Crossed the PA state line and could see lights on the ground for 100 miles distant and abundant stars above and likewise into the distance. Looked down for a moment to fiddle with some paperwork and when I looked back up, everything was gone. No lights, no stars, nothing. For a moment I had no idea what happened (I could hear Twilight Zone music) but apparently I flew into a solid overcast ceiling. With less than 100 hours flight time I wondered what to do for a little bit before simply reversing course and holding my altitude until I could see again, then descending below the ceiling and returning to my original course. This of course, could happen to anyone and wasn't my fault but it was a circumstance that I'd never considered until it happened to me.

I could list some other stupidities if you want (flew directly into a thunderstorm once, with ATC ('radar advisories' not advising me of anything; that was TERRIFYING)

I can assure you that I'm not alive today because of my skill as a pilot.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

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doneat53
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by doneat53 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:51 pm

Navigation has changed dramatically since the iPad came out, there are several apps for the iPad (ForeFlight, WingX, fltplan.com, Garmin) that make navigation much easier and safer. But they take time to learn to use, so budget for that time and try to do as much on the ground as you can. If you will be flying in busy airspace, learning in a plane that has traffic displayed and learning how to quickly spot the aircraft out the windshield is a good skill.
So I decided to go with Kershner's for the time being. I'm enjoying the education which just reaffirms my desire to do this.

With respect to the quote above... should I buy ForeFlight now and start exploring it or would it be pointless until I actually start flying?

Also SailingTahoe mentioned this...
3. Take sporty practice test for free. Take test early and often. I probably did 2 test a day for 2 months.
Can SailingTahoe or someone elaborate? Should I purchase the Sporty online course to supplement as several here did or can you download these tests without purchasing the course?

Thanks again for all the responses!

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by miamivice » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm

Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.

miamivice
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by miamivice » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:04 pm

doneat53 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:28 pm
3.) I'm a little amazed at the cost of all this and would like to minimize it without compromising the process. Any advice here? It looks like plane rental plus instructor time will be ~200/hr. From what I read 65 hours is average for completion.
I am curious if you think the cost of flying will go down after you get your license?

There is plane rental and fuel at a minimum. If you decide to purchase a plane, add on hangar rental and airplane maintenance. It adds up quick for something that provides little return other than enjoyment.

One other comment - have you gotten your Class III medical certificate yet? I would start there. There are numerous health concerns and/or lifestyle choices that disqualify you from ever becoming a pilot, and you will want to be sure that you are medically fit for duty before going any further.

austin757
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by austin757 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:06 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm
Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.
You do realize people can have hobbies and passions that cost money, correct? If the 401k and IRA is maxed out and the rainy day fund is taken care of, why not spend some of your hard earned money on something you enjoy?

aerosurfer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by aerosurfer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:07 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm
Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.
Damn, harsh

What do you do for fun? The same could be said about a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean there is right or wrong way to spend one’s time?

I have made a career out of aviation, but started flying in my teenage years with no long term aspirations. It’s not cheap, but can be made affordable, however the experiences are wonderful, even if for only short time.

miamivice
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by miamivice » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:17 pm

austin757 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:06 pm
miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm
Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.
You do realize people can have hobbies and passions that cost money, correct? If the 401k and IRA is maxed out and the rainy day fund is taken care of, why not spend some of your hard earned money on something you enjoy?
Yes, I also realize the cost of flying, which the OP noted in his comments. For example, a private plane rental might cost $150/hr, from the time you start the engine until the time you stop. So a 3 hour flight around the city runs $450.

It might cost $10,000 to get a private pilot license.

I'm all in favor of folks living in the moment, but $450 for 3 hours of recreation is a bit on the steep side.

aerosurfer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by aerosurfer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:43 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:17 pm
austin757 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:06 pm
miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm
Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.
You do realize people can have hobbies and passions that cost money, correct? If the 401k and IRA is maxed out and the rainy day fund is taken care of, why not spend some of your hard earned money on something you enjoy?
Yes, I also realize the cost of flying, which the OP noted in his comments. For example, a private plane rental might cost $150/hr, from the time you start the engine until the time you stop. So a 3 hour flight around the city runs $450.

It might cost $10,000 to get a private pilot license.

I'm all in favor of folks living in the moment, but $450 for 3 hours of recreation is a bit on the steep side.
I guess compared to what? You added no context

Fine dinning can run into that amount, rent a ski boat, track day for exotic car lessons, guided hunting or a half day fishing charter, playoff tickets to a big game... I’m sure there are plenty of other ways you can blow tree-fiddy or more in an afternoon

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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by miamivice » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:53 pm

It's just my opinion, but I would imagine flying would get boring after the newness wears off. I mean - learning to fly would be fun because it's new information. Taking ground school, learning how to fly, first solo flight, etc.

But how many trips around your town would you enjoy? After maybe 10-15 flights, wouldn't the scenery get old? The landing and the takeoff is always the same scenery. There is only so far you can go with a tankful of gas.

If you have family that you want to go with to a new destination, and flying allows more travel opportunity that might be a lot of fun. I wouldn't think that private plane flying would stay interesting for long after the license is acquired.

jbmitt
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by jbmitt » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:34 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:53 pm
It's just my opinion, but I would imagine flying would get boring after the newness wears off. I mean - learning to fly would be fun because it's new information. Taking ground school, learning how to fly, first solo flight, etc.

But how many trips around your town would you enjoy? After maybe 10-15 flights, wouldn't the scenery get old? The landing and the takeoff is always the same scenery. There is only so far you can go with a tankful of gas.

If you have family that you want to go with to a new destination, and flying allows more travel opportunity that might be a lot of fun. I wouldn't think that private plane flying would stay interesting for long after the license is acquired.
Not all of us fly recreationally. Airline transport pilots also start out by earning their private pilot license, instrument rating, commercial pilot license, multi engine rating, and/or flight instructor ratings.

fundseeker
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by fundseeker » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:39 pm

To the OP, I developed my interest in getting my PPL from my father flying a Cherokee 140 (low wing plane) with the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) many decades ago. If it had not been for that, I might have never considered getting mine. Once I got my license, I got checked out in a Cessna 152 in his hometown and took him for a ride on a very windy day. I'm pretty sure he was scared to death. Anyway, we landed safely :)

I gave up flying with just 200 hours. One day I may go back to it just to fly a 140 or similar low wing plane which I've never done. I started out in the 152, but later paid extra for the 172 which was much more comfortable. If you get to fly a 182, you'll feel like you're in a luxury car. But things really happen much faster in a 182, and especially in a 210, so you'll need a lot of experience before you go there. Several years ago, my brother decided to get his PPL for fun and took me for a ride. My brother did not fly much after that, but I know he considers it well worth the expense.

Re the cost, you know best whether you can afford it and what it'd mean to you, so go for it if you can afford it. Even if you fly just a handful of times after you get your license, it may be well worth the money. There is something to be said for making memories, and it's a fun learning process. And for the rest of your life, if you can pass a physical and get checked out in a plane, you can fly again.

I'll end with pointing out that flying is very unforgiving. You can be looking out the window on downwind for landing and fail to keep your speed up. That could be deadly. So, just be careful! And, get life insurance if you have family, and make sure it will cover you if you crash while at the controls (versus being a student or co-pilot). As I recall, mine would not cover me and the rider for that coverage was ridiculous.

Good luck!

Cheyenne
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by Cheyenne » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:50 pm

fundseeker wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:39 pm
And, get life insurance if you have family, and make sure it will cover you if you crash while at the controls (versus being a student or co-pilot). As I recall, mine would not cover me and the rider for that coverage was ridiculous.
I've been flying for over 35 years and I pay the life insurance aviation premium. That's why I stick (no pun intended) with it. I don't want to pay all that money for nothing.

aerosurfer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by aerosurfer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:46 pm

Cheyenne wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:50 pm
fundseeker wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:39 pm
And, get life insurance if you have family, and make sure it will cover you if you crash while at the controls (versus being a student or co-pilot). As I recall, mine would not cover me and the rider for that coverage was ridiculous.
I've been flying for over 35 years and I pay the life insurance aviation premium. That's why I stick (no pun intended) with it. I don't want to pay all that money for nothing.
For pilot life insurance, it’s tough to beat Harvey Watt plans, not sure if limited to industry only or all licensed pilots.

Www.Harveywatt.com
Last edited by aerosurfer on Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aerosurfer
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Re: Boglehead Pilots...advice

Post by aerosurfer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:49 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm
Without revealing personal details for privacy, I am in a position to make this statement:

I think everything about aviation is really expensive and I am not sure why one would pursue learning to fly. From a financial perspective, it'd be way better to stash the money in a 401k or rainy day fund than to spend the money needed to take ground school, learn to fly, and then actually spend time flying.
Curious how you state you are in a position to make such statements, then give a fairly uneducated opinion about something you don’t do in the first place?
miamivice wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:53 pm
It's just my opinion, but I would imagine flying would get boring after the newness wears off. I mean - learning to fly would be fun because it's new information. Taking ground school, learning how to fly, first solo flight, etc.

But how many trips around your town would you enjoy? After maybe 10-15 flights, wouldn't the scenery get old? The landing and the takeoff is always the same scenery. There is only so far you can go with a tankful of gas.

If you have family that you want to go with to a new destination, and flying allows more travel opportunity that might be a lot of fun. I wouldn't think that private plane flying would stay interesting for long after the license is acquired.

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