"The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

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willthrill81
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
It all depends on your personal preferences. Some would rather have a spectacular mountain vista for their backyard than an array of dining and drinking options, while others value being able to walk through a neighborhood and encounter a dozen friends along the way. And for many retirees, being near to family trumps almost everything else.

And that's probably the biggest reason why these 'studies' are worthless from almost any kind of practical sense: they are not optimized for what you need and/or want, and they cannot be.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by goodenyou »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:54 pm
Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
It all depends on your personal preferences. Some would rather have a spectacular mountain vista for their backyard than an array of dining and drinking options, while others value being able to walk through a neighborhood and encounter a dozen friends along the way. And for many retirees, being near to family trumps almost everything else.

And that's probably the biggest reason why these 'studies' are worthless from almost any kind of practical sense: they are not optimized for what you need and/or want, and they cannot be.
The surveys are supposed to tell the readers what is important in retirement. The commentators are supposed to boast about where they live and make arrogant and disparaging comments about where others choose to live. Come on, your not playing along.
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willthrill81
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

goodenyou wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:29 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:54 pm
Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
It all depends on your personal preferences. Some would rather have a spectacular mountain vista for their backyard than an array of dining and drinking options, while others value being able to walk through a neighborhood and encounter a dozen friends along the way. And for many retirees, being near to family trumps almost everything else.

And that's probably the biggest reason why these 'studies' are worthless from almost any kind of practical sense: they are not optimized for what you need and/or want, and they cannot be.
The surveys are supposed to tell the readers what is important in retirement. The commentators are supposed to boast about where they live and make arrogant and disparaging comments about where others choose to live. Come on, your not playing along.
I guess I'm just not a team player. :(
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by friar1610 »

brokendirtdart wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:59 am I would love to find a no kidding across the board easy to read comparison of the states(preferably in Excel), but I haven't yet.

I am about two years out from military retirement and have been bouncing between mid/northern New Hampshire and mid Maine for post military locations. I still have family in another New England state, but I won't move to that state.

Some of the things I've come across:

Taxes:
Both NH and ME exempt military retirement. NH does so with no income tax.
ME will tax investment income which hurts when I liquidate funds to create a house downpayment.
NH has a small Dividend & Interest tax which when I test calculated it is small even for my not very efficient portfolio.
NH has a very high property tax rate which varies across some towns. The drawback of eliminating other taxes.
ME also has a somewhat high property tax rate, also varies across towns, but will exempt $6K when I turn 62.
Both states have Excise taxes on vehicles, but ME is supposedly higher
NH has no sales tax

Other stuff(some trivial):
NH rental prices are expensive(average $2K a month for single family house). Using zillow searches of both states, they both are, but ME is slightly less. Intent is to rent in the area before buying somewhere.
Both states require front license plates-yuck
Both states require vehicle inspection-yuck
ME has redemption fees on recyclables such as cans. I "enjoy" recycling, but the logistics of dealing with redemption centers and bags of uncrushed and bee/ant attracting cans may be a bridge too far.
NH seems to be getting crowded so quiet areas look to be getting rarer. Looks to be one of the "it" states.
ME is more rural which can make shopping more difficult. I use Walmart and Lowes/Home Depot as a landmark, but rural is my preference. I'll ideally be able to set up a small rifle/pistol range wherever I land.
Health care seems to be a wash-all depends on what area of either state you live. Then you just go to Boston right down the road.
ME seems to have slightly less nanny state quality of life laws than NH. For now.
I can find part time employment in either state to supplement retirement income.

New England guy/military retiree here. At one time or another I've lived in all NE states except NH although I've spent plenty of time there due to relatives in Southern NH. I live in MA now and just want to point out one thing. In spite of its reputation as "Taxachusetts", MA is fairly tax-friendly to military retirees. There's no state tax on military retirement pay and SS is exempt as well. Western MA has plenty of rural areas and, particularly if one locates in a north central/western part of the state, you have the rural aspects of VT/NH nearby. Not sayin' MA is identical to NH and ME but just want to make sure you're aware of the tax advantages for retired military.

Good luck with the rest of your career and decision on a retirement location!
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

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Yes, MA is a great place to live.

However, I cannot handle snow and ice. :(
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by indexonlyplease »

quantAndHold wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:33 pm Nobody is average. My personal situation is different than the averages, and different than any individual making the same decision.

I live in California because it is low cost and high quality for me. It might not be for someone else, especially if they aren’t already here. I’ve been to all of the “top 10” states in this article, and I would only ever consider living in one of them. The rest either have quality of life issues that I don’t want to have to deal with, or they would be more expensive than where I already am.

I think the biggest error the article makes in its methodology is not considering quality of life issues. Weather, amenities, etc. I suppose a website called “Wallet Hub” could be forgiven for that, but it is a big miss.
That may be the first time I heard California cheap to live. When I was in Nevada most people I met left California because of cost of living. Cheaper to live in Nevada they said.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by bhsince87 »

mariezzz wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:36 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
And yet South Dakota, one state to the west, is #2 overall? I completely agree. It's junk. But thankfully, I have a hard time believing that any sane person would actually rely on such a 'study' to determine whether they want to spend their golden years.
These surveys are always junk! What is 'good' all depends on the specifics of a person's situation plus their own values and preferences.

During the winter in MN, IA, ND, SD, WI, most of the time, you can stay outside for far longer than 10 minutes without risking frostbite! Very strange statement about the upstairs back entries. We had just 3 steps to all external doors (further north than La Crosse). The heated dog house was nice of her, but many people just keep their dogs inside. The cold can be very cruel, though, to people and animals who don't have a home.

Many people in those areas do spend time outside in the winter: playing in snow, ice skating, skiing (cross-country and downhill, with emphasis on 'hill', not 'mountain'), walking, running, some even commute by bike in winter! (although far fewer than in summer). As kids we would go back and forth - outside for 30-60 min, until we got too cold, back inside to warm up, eat, then back out. This was in the days before the modern tech fabrics! We regularly had gloves in the gas oven (heat from pilot was warm enough to dry them out faster, but we would also turn oven on for a few minutes to warm it more; always had to check oven before using it to cook anything!), boots tipped up over heating vents, and so on. Socks would work as mittens in a pinch. We had a village of snow forts carved into our yard, complete with snow chairs to sit on. One winter I had a small library in a tupperware container.

Many people living in more temperate climates spend their lives indoors, glued to screens, and in hot areas, it's so hot you can't pleasantly (and sometimes safely) go outside 6+ months of the year. If I had to choose, I'd choose an area like the upper midwest over 90% of the US. But am happy others choose to live where I won't!

There is definitely a personal component to climate preferences.

Our home here in Southern PA was used as a Winter home by the previous owners. They summered in Michigan.

Yet I have friends who moved from PA to Florida and will never move back because it's "too cold".
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by wwhan »

The cost of living in California depends on a couple of factors people outside California may not be aware of.

1.) If one had bought their house before 1978 and never moved, the property tax would be very low, due to proposition 13.

2.) Housing cost & labor cost are very high in some parts of California and not in others. The SF bay area is very expensive, but Sacramento area is a lot cheaper & other areas of the San Joaquin valley are even more inexpensive.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by randomguy »

wwhan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:06 pm The cost of living in California depends on a couple of factors people outside California may not be aware of.

1.) If one had bought their house before 1978 and never moved, the property tax would be very low, due to proposition 13.

2.) Housing cost & labor cost are very high in some parts of California and not in others. The SF bay area is very expensive, but Sacramento area is a lot cheaper & other areas of the San Joaquin valley are even more inexpensive.

CA also has a pretty progressive income tax. A lot of states tax the first 50k of income at a higher rate than CA. Not sure if it ever gets to cheap but it can definitely bet pretty middle of the road.

In the end it is all about what you want. SD has like a 4 month golf season. Why the heck would I want to retire there? Want to spent 180 days/year skiing and I would not recommend any of the south east towns I am looking at. And obviously being cheap only matters if you don’t have the money. Some of us work another 5 years to live where we want.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by bhsince87 »

CULater wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:05 am Limited value to rate entire states. That's about 10% of the variance. The specific place that you live is the other 90%.
Yes. Take PA as an example. Philadelphia averages 14 inches of snow per year. Erie averages 101 inches.

And Philly has a bunch of higher local taxes, which throws off the economics too.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by wwhan »

Colorado looks interesting, but has black ice and snow in the winter.

It seems most houses in populous Colorado areas are two story and the nice houses are huge.

A one story house with no winter black ice would seem to be good features for retirement.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by VictoriaF »

wwhan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:06 pm The cost of living in California depends on a couple of factors people outside California may not be aware of.

1.) If one had bought their house before 1978 and never moved, the property tax would be very low, due to proposition 13.

2.) Housing cost & labor cost are very high in some parts of California and not in others. The SF bay area is very expensive, but Sacramento area is a lot cheaper & other areas of the San Joaquin valley are even more inexpensive.
Confession: I don't know much about the intricacies of living in California. But:

From my travels to major Californian cities and across its vast rural parts, I think that the best parts of California are places like San Francisco, San Jose, San Diego, parts of LA. These places are well served by public transportation, are easily walkable (I love SF hills!), and are cultural heavens. As you get to rural California, you lose these benefits and don't lose much of California's taxes and earthquake risks.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (where to live).

I removed an an off-topic post (page 3). Also, this is a "no politics" forum. Opinions of political status (or tax policy) are off-topic.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by jibantik »

vitaflo wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.
Yes, MN is a frozen wasteland, please don't move here! You will die of frostbite just by looking outside! /s

Honestly, the weather is the reason MN is America's best kept secret. Unlike the Mountain West, I hope it stays that way.
That's the thing. In a cold place you can actively do something, i.e., wear warm clothes, to still be able to do things outside. In a place like Florida in the summer, you can run around buck neked and it will still be unbearable to do anything outside.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by KSOC »

I've been in Florida for 15 years now, previously Pennsylvania. As for the humidity here, you do get used to it and going out & about seems normal. I was up north in November & again in February/March. It was a good reminder how much the cold affects older bodies.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by randomguy »

jibantik wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm
vitaflo wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.
Yes, MN is a frozen wasteland, please don't move here! You will die of frostbite just by looking outside! /s

Honestly, the weather is the reason MN is America's best kept secret. Unlike the Mountain West, I hope it stays that way.
That's the thing. In a cold place you can actively do something, i.e., wear warm clothes, to still be able to do things outside. In a place like Florida in the summer, you can run around buck neked and it will still be unbearable to do anything outside.
I can play golf in 100 degree weather with 100% humidity by adapting. Can't play golf outside with 1" of snow. Cold weather is a lot more limiting than hot. It is all about what you want to do. You can also get up at 6am to exercise outside.

People are going to differ on hot/cold, urban/rural and so on. Convincing others that you are right is futile. Knowing what you like is valuable.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by brokendirtdart »

friar1610 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:40 pm
brokendirtdart wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:59 am

New England guy/military retiree here. At one time or another I've lived in all NE states except NH although I've spent plenty of time there due to relatives in Southern NH. I live in MA now and just want to point out one thing. In spite of its reputation as "Taxachusetts", MA is fairly tax-friendly to military retirees. There's no state tax on military retirement pay and SS is exempt as well. Western MA has plenty of rural areas and, particularly if one locates in a north central/western part of the state, you have the rural aspects of VT/NH nearby. Not sayin' MA is identical to NH and ME but just want to make sure you're aware of the tax advantages for retired military.

Good luck with the rest of your career and decision on a retirement location!

Thanks. It is good to hear that other New England states are options financially, and I have noticed several posts here refuting the "Taxachusetts" nickname we've all heard. I am from far eastern Mass, and other than a weird three year recruiting stint in RI, that is the only New England state I've lived in. Mass is completely out for me as they forbid, outright restrict, or price out several recreational favorites that I have acquired over the last 26+ years of PCSing and living life.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by gasdoc »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
The Florida summers are very humid. I can't imagine playing pickleball in July and August. Do people really do that?
Mornings and evenings.

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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Spirit Rider »

Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
To each their own. Everybody has their own priorities. For me, what possible quality of life can you have when there are sidewalks in front of your house? I haven't had such detriments of urbanization to my quality of life in decades. Yet I have more than a dozen good places to meet, eat, and drink a beer with friends within 2-3 miles. I thrive on the fact that there isn't the cesspool of a decent sized city within 50 miles. Nature is the requirement. I have lived in major metropolitan areas both here and abroad, no thanks for retirement.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by kenoryan »

We take care of several ankle and hip fractures every week in the winter from old people just walking to their mailbox. Some just lay there and die because nobody is there to help them. I’m definitely not going to live in Wisconsin in the winter when I retire. I’m going to Florida to play golf in the winter!
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

brokendirtdart wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:02 pm
Thanks. It is good to hear that other New England states are options financially, and I have noticed several posts here refuting the "Taxachusetts" nickname we've all heard. I am from far eastern Mass, and other than a weird three year recruiting stint in RI, that is the only New England state I've lived in. Mass is completely out for me as they forbid, outright restrict, or price out several recreational favorites that I have acquired over the last 26+ years of PCSing and living life.
I have no idea what the bolded part means.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

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Since the context was for military retired, I'm thinking PCS is Permanent Change of Station. Job/residence relocation for us civilians.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by drawpoker »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:54 pm It all depends on your personal preferences......probably the biggest reason why these 'studies' are worthless from almost any kind of practical sense: they are not optimized for what you need and/or want, and they cannot be.
Exactly!

North Dakota? Minnesota? Why would I want to freeze my buns half of the year just because life expectancy is higher and taxes are lower? Not a !#^&@#&^#*! chance of that :annoyed
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

Spirit Rider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:33 pm
Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
To each their own. Everybody has their own priorities. For me, what possible quality of life can you have when there are sidewalks in front of your house? I haven't had such detriments of urbanization to my quality of life in decades. Yet I have more than a dozen good places to meet, eat, and drink a beer with friends within 2-3 miles. I thrive on the fact that there isn't the cesspool of a decent sized city within 50 miles. Nature is the requirement. I have lived in major metropolitan areas both here and abroad, no thanks for retirement.
This makes sense only if you lived in a city and in a rural environment (suburb) and you can compare. And if this is your informed choice, great. I lived more in cities than in suburbs and I know very well why they are superior. Most people in US lived only in suburbs.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by koryg75 »

As someone who currently resides in MN i question the sanity of those who compiled the list. The tax burden is crazy, the weather tries to kill you for 8-9 out of 12 months. The MSP metro area is expensive relative to many comparable areas of similar size. I’m baffled.Yes the jobs are plentiful, but in retirement who cares?
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:54 pm
Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:21 pm Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
It all depends on your personal preferences. Some would rather have a spectacular mountain vista for their backyard than an array of dining and drinking options, while others value being able to walk through a neighborhood and encounter a dozen friends along the way. And for many retirees, being near to family trumps almost everything else.
I completely agree with friends and family trumping everything.
I value nature a lot, actually is one of the most important things in my life (probably THE most important thing), I hike, climb, ski, sail, mountain bike etc, but I doubt I will do them at 68. Walking around is still possible at that age, driving safely not so much.
My mother is 82, she can barely walk half a mile, but she can do all the shopping she needs, she has multiple bank branches and and she has a large hospital in that distance. Her best friend lives across the street. She wouldn't be able to drive. Depending on others and machines is much worse in my opinion.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

VictoriaF wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:28 pm
wwhan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:06 pm The cost of living in California depends on a couple of factors people outside California may not be aware of.

1.) If one had bought their house before 1978 and never moved, the property tax would be very low, due to proposition 13.

2.) Housing cost & labor cost are very high in some parts of California and not in others. The SF bay area is very expensive, but Sacramento area is a lot cheaper & other areas of the San Joaquin valley are even more inexpensive.
Confession: I don't know much about the intricacies of living in California. But:

From my travels to major Californian cities and across its vast rural parts, I think that the best parts of California are places like San Francisco, San Jose, San Diego, parts of LA. These places are well served by public transportation, are easily walkable (I love SF hills!), and are cultural heavens. As you get to rural California, you lose these benefits and don't lose much of California's taxes and earthquake risks.

Victoria


Isn't that more or less true for every state with large cities?
Manhattan vs Finger lakes?
Chicago vs south Illinois?
Seattle vs east of the sate?
Austin vs West Texas?
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by jabberwockOG »

It's clear that lots of folks have completely different thinking on what makes a great place to retire. The truly wealthy typically live in 2 or more places in a given year moving around to spend time in the local weather/season they desire. But most folks, including me, would have trouble affording 2 or more homes in multiple places. So most of us compromise on living in one residence, with a lot of people renting and doing some version of the snow bird routine. More and more desirable places in the South are completely overrun with snowbirds in winter.

Besides affordability a lot of paces in America are much more similar than different these days, sadly the uniqueness of many places is fading, but a clear priority factor that will remain a differentiator is what climate a person finds desirable.

My wife and I grew up in one of the big Northern Midwest cities. We learned early in life that we hated the cold and later in life that we did not like big cities. We moved to the deep South after college and lived in the South for 40+ years. In retirement we would never consider living in the North - cold,ice,snow, darkness - yuck. Other people love it up North, love the "4 seasons" and hate the idea of long summers and lots of heat and humidity. And that is fantastic because our town is growing way too fast.

Finding and moving to a new location in retirement is a major important decision and carries some significant financial and emotional risk. I recommend people try out a location and a climate with several trips over a year and even rent for a while before committing to a formal move and house purchase. Making a mistake in a retirement move can be very expensive and time consuming to correct.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Spirit Rider »

Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:06 pm
Spirit Rider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:33 pm To each their own. Everybody has their own priorities. For me, what possible quality of life can you have when there are sidewalks in front of your house? I haven't had such detriments of urbanization to my quality of life in decades. Yet I have more than a dozen good places to meet, eat, and drink a beer with friends within 2-3 miles. I thrive on the fact that there isn't the cesspool of a decent sized city within 50 miles. Nature is the requirement. I have lived in major metropolitan areas both here and abroad, no thanks for retirement.
This makes sense only if you lived in a city and in a rural environment (suburb) and you can compare. And if this is your informed choice, great. I lived more in cities than in suburbs and I know very well why they are superior. Most people in US lived only in suburbs. If you cannot walk safely, you are dependent on a machine. It's like a handicap. I find it extraordinary stressful.
Did you miss the bolded part of my last sentence. I have lived in cities of 1M and 3M, and in my opinion the quality of life is definitely inferior. I find it far less stressful to not live in a large city. You have your view and I have mine, neither is right or wrong. You don't know, you just have an opinion that is no more an absolute truth than mine.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Pu239 »

Colorado #3...really? It pains me to think more people will want to move here and retire under the illusion of paradise. The place sucks so please stay at home and leave us to our misery.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by RickBoglehead »

No "will be under water due to rising ocean levels" in criteria...
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

It sucks to be in California, high tax, near the worst state for retirement, but I love it here and that’s what matters in retirement. I usually can plant tomatoes and corns as early as March.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by jlawrence01 »

I have lived in seven states and visited all fifty.

Approximately TWENTY years ago, on a long eight-hour drive, my wife and i developed a list of thirty cities that we thought that we would like to live in retirement. I have to admit that locations were throughout the country (except the NE). Over the course of the following fifteen years, we had pretty much whittled the list to perhaps five locations.

And our final destination was "none of the above" as it was not on any of our lists.

Priorities change as you age. I do not want to live in a place like Chicago as the congestion is just too much for me. Some of the location (Nashville, Raleigh, etc.) have much higher costs of living than they did twenty years ago.

While Minneapolis is a great city with lots to do and the like, I question whether I really want to deal with the cold and snow in the years that I need to remain vertical.

I have quit reading any article that starts with "Top 10" as it is generally bogus reporting. Have these people really physically visited these places that they recommend? South Dakota is a great retirement location - as there are no state income taxes and that you only need to be there for one day a year to maintain residence. I have a lot of friends who make a run to Pierre about once a year to take care of business and spend much of their time in AZ. It would nicely that they aren't living in the state.
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ankonaman
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by ankonaman »

Surprised no one has mentioned Georgia.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Glockenspiel »

sergio wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:38 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
Minnesota does suck, as does most of the midwest, for QOL. And I say this as someone who lived there for >10 years and in the midwest (WI/IL) the rest of my life.
Lifelong Minnesotan here. Enough of the bashing. You guys act as if it’s impossible to go outside 6 months of the year here. It really usually doesn’t start snowing until December and winter is usually gone by mid-March. So that’s 3 months of snow, not 6. Spring, Summer, and Fall are all beautiful and pleasantu. I’m guessing you people living in Florida, south Texas, and Arizona are cooped up in the air conditioning from May until October because no one can bare to do any activity outside when it’s 110 degrees with high humidity.

It’s well known nationally that Minnesota consistently has one of the nation’s best economies, high salaries, a highly educated population, some of the best healthcare in the country, great state and local parks, a culture of enjoying the outdoors regardless of the weather, affordable housing relative to wages, moderate property taxes, a great food and beer scene, and enough lakes for pretty much every family to have their “cabin up north”. If you don’t think those amount to a good quality of life, guess what? No one is making you to move here. Some of you act as if you’ll freeze to death in anything under 70 degrees.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Glockenspiel »

koryg75 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:09 pm As someone who currently resides in MN i question the sanity of those who compiled the list. The tax burden is crazy, the weather tries to kill you for 8-9 out of 12 months. The MSP metro area is expensive relative to many comparable areas of similar size. I’m baffled.Yes the jobs are plentiful, but in retirement who cares?
So mooove then! I personally find your entire post preposterous and a dramatic over-exaggeration.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by rich126 »

Its one thing to rank states in terms of how taxes affect people in retirement but other reasons are much more subjective. Many people stay in a less desirable (financially wise) state simply due to family. And when it comes to other activities the choices vary widely. I live on the east coast and as a kid spent a lot of time in Florida. For me there is no way I would ever retire in FL simply because I don't care for the weather (humidity, rain, etc.). Right now the most likely choice is AZ because I worked out there for a while and really got use to the dry heat (most of the year) and while July/August is rough, I'm not a fan of the summer months back east either.

Some of this stuff is like arguing over who has the best steak, or pizza, everyone has a different opinion.
GatorFL
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by GatorFL »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
The Florida summers are very humid. I can't imagine playing pickleball in July and August. Do people really do that?
Yep, we sure do! Yes, it is hot and humid from June - September. Activities such as the daily walk, pickleball, golf typically take place before the heat of the day. We typically finish up by 9-9:30. Also, it will rain most days in the summer in the afternoon, which cuts the heat down. Honestly, I like the Florida summer, but I have my own pool and love to swim. Also, having lived along the PA/MD border for the prior 20 years I can honestly say that summers up there tended to be just as hot, just not as long. It is a great place to retire, it just takes some adjustment I suppose.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by A440 »

I can makes plans all day where to live in retirement, but my lovely bride reminds me we will be living wherever the grandchildren are. Happy wife...
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by robphoto »

My state always comes out near the bottom of these things (here's a hint-- the smallest state). But if you've got good, interesting work, good friends and associations, it's great-- as probably any state can be.

Lots of colleges, moderately priced houses on the bay, beaches, 1 hour to Boston if you want to do that. (some people commute in to Boston each day-- 1 hour from the capitol to Back Bay by MBTA train).

That said, I kind of winced when I reviewed my state income taxes, and noted the capital gains taxed as regular income.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by RadAudit »

Doesn't Florida get freak hurricanes every few years? No thanks.
If it happens every few years, it is not a freak occurrence.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by stoptothink »

jibantik wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm
vitaflo wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.
Yes, MN is a frozen wasteland, please don't move here! You will die of frostbite just by looking outside! /s

Honestly, the weather is the reason MN is America's best kept secret. Unlike the Mountain West, I hope it stays that way.
That's the thing. In a cold place you can actively do something, i.e., wear warm clothes, to still be able to do things outside. In a place like Florida in the summer, you can run around buck neked and it will still be unbearable to do anything outside.
Again, personal preference. I currently live in Utah, where it is cold at least 6 months a year, but I previously lived in Houston and Mesa where it pretty much never gets cold. A lot of people would say that Mesa and Houston are unbearable in the summer; in Mesa area, people rarely go outside between April and October. In both places I rode my bike to work and school year around and the heat didn't bother me. I'm sure I wouldn't be fond of the weather in Alaska, but for the most part I've found that weather isn't that big of a deal to me.
dad2000
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by dad2000 »

This list is not going to be helpful in selecting a state for retirement.

In order to be useful, it would need data on several more categories. Additionally, it would need to allow the user to rank the weight of each category based on user preference. Some people like the ocean, some like desert. Some want to be near like minded people, some may not care. Some want to be near family, some don't.
Pu239
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Pu239 »

dad2000 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:52 am This list is not going to be helpful in selecting a state for retirement.

In order to be useful, it would need data on several more categories. Additionally, it would need to allow the user to rank the weight of each category based on user preference. Some people like the ocean, some like desert. Some want to be near like minded people, some may not care. Some want to be near family, some don't.
Good point. Instead of a list compiled using a set of rigid criteria, what we really need is a retirement place calculator similar to the many financial calculators found on the web. Or a GIS mapping approach accurate to within a zip code. Concerned about earthquakes, hurricanes, politics, Lyme disease, floodplains, whatever...? Screen them all to arrive at a mathematically perfect retirement spot. Then press the link at the end of the process to be connected to a local realtor and done.
Between the idea And the reality...Between the motion And the act...Falls the Shadow - T. S. Eliot
JackoC
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JackoC »

Glockenspiel wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:10 am
sergio wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:38 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes.
Minnesota does suck, as does most of the midwest, for QOL. And I say this as someone who lived there for >10 years and in the midwest (WI/IL) the rest of my life.
1. Lifelong Minnesotan here. Enough of the bashing. You guys act as if it’s impossible to go outside 6 months of the year here. It really usually doesn’t start snowing until December and winter is usually gone by mid-March. So that’s 3 months of snow, not 6. Spring, Summer, and Fall are all beautiful and pleasantu. I’m guessing you people living in Florida, south Texas, and Arizona are cooped up in the air conditioning from May until October because no one can bare to do any activity outside when it’s 110 degrees with high humidity.

2. It’s well known nationally that Minnesota consistently has one of the nation’s best economies, high salaries, a highly educated population, some of the best healthcare in the country, great state and local parks, a culture of enjoying the outdoors regardless of the weather, affordable housing relative to wages, moderate property taxes...
1. Some of the statements about MN climate are hyperbolic or anyway highly opinionated. But, my daughter (who grew up in NJ) lived in rural west central MN* for awhile and it is brutal there in the winter especially if it's not what you're used to your whole life. It's not an imaginary issue for people *moving there*, especially for retirement which is the assumed context here. We visited her a couple of times in mild weather and the town was more than nice in its way, a bit of a 'seen better times' feel to it, but that's true of lots of rural places and doesn't mean they aren't good places to live depending on your taste. But those winters are tough if it's not what you grew up with.

2. Similarly context here is retirement from outside so jobs aren't directly relevant. And I believe the results of that survey that MN is distinctly less attractive on affordability 43rd, than on QOL and healthcare, where it was #1 in both. Again I don't necessarily dispute the latter two rankings but just note again climate is only 2.61% weighted and it's really not unreasonable for somebody to say they don't want to live someplace that is so cold in the winter.

*as you certainly know but to explain generally, temperature varies noticeably in that big state. Avg Jan night time low in town my daughter lived (-1, but was in the mid -30's during the cold snap earlier this winter) is 7 degrees F lower than Minneapolis' avg Jan night time low.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Valuethinker »

RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:04 am No "will be under water due to rising ocean levels" in criteria...
Nobody can be sure of the risks of this in the time frame. One might be a retiree for 20 years, say, and not experience any significant costs or inconvenience - regardless of whatever happens post 2050.

One could also take a view that it won't happen.

But we can say that certain places are at greater risk at least on official forecasts and it's likely to be sooner not later for some of those, and poses a potential risk for a retiree - particularly if owning property rather than renting. Areas that have been highlighted as highest risk, from various reports, are from memory:

- New Orleans - the lowest-lying city in America AFAIK
- Miami is number 2 affected because it sits on water permeable rock, so it's not simply a case of building taller barriers - the whole infrastructure is at risk, will have to be replaced by an above-surface infrastructure
- Norfolk VA area - recurrent flooding is already a US Navy problem
- Baltimore
- Boston's Back Bay and other low-lying areas of New England (Portland ME?)
- New York City and in particular Lower Manhattan, low lying areas of Brooklyn and Queens - the protection measures proposed for Manhattan will lead to greater flooding in other vulnerable areas - that tradeoff will probably be made, there's too much value-at-risk in lower Manhattan
- (I assume) Honolulu

Due to peculiarities of ocean currents, the US west coast has fewer issues (although some).

It's a factor. Flood insurance protection (affordable) may not be available - various attempts to reform NFIP have been beaten back.

I would say it is something to think about - particularly if buying property. It's possible to mitigate the risk simply by avoiding some parts of some cities. But it's not a make-or-break against other factors for a retiree.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Glockenspiel »

RollTide31457 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:48 am Would not consider Minneapolis due to massive crime and anti-Semitic politicians.
Assuming you live in, or are from Alabama, based on your username. Mobile, Alabama (the only city listed in the source I found) had a murder rate of 20.1 per 100,000 people, and a total property crime rate of 5,450 per 100,000 people. Minneapolis had a murder rate of 10.0 per 100,000 people, and a property crime rate of 4,640 per 100,000 people.

So your crime statement is false.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Colorado13 »

Glockenspiel wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:10 am
sergio wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:38 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
Minnesota does suck, as does most of the midwest, for QOL. And I say this as someone who lived there for >10 years and in the midwest (WI/IL) the rest of my life.
Lifelong Minnesotan here. Enough of the bashing. You guys act as if it’s impossible to go outside 6 months of the year here. It really usually doesn’t start snowing until December and winter is usually gone by mid-March. So that’s 3 months of snow, not 6. Spring, Summer, and Fall are all beautiful and pleasantu. I’m guessing you people living in Florida, south Texas, and Arizona are cooped up in the air conditioning from May until October because no one can bare to do any activity outside when it’s 110 degrees with high humidity.

It’s well known nationally that Minnesota consistently has one of the nation’s best economies, high salaries, a highly educated population, some of the best healthcare in the country, great state and local parks, a culture of enjoying the outdoors regardless of the weather, affordable housing relative to wages, moderate property taxes, a great food and beer scene, and enough lakes for pretty much every family to have their “cabin up north”. If you don’t think those amount to a good quality of life, guess what? No one is making you to move here. Some of you act as if you’ll freeze to death in anything under 70 degrees.

Your description is far from what I experienced when I I lived there. 6 months of no sun and 3-4 months of bugs/humidity = 2 good months to be outdoors. That's fine for lots of people, but not for me. Thankfully, there is somewhere for everyone. (But don't come to CO, the joke is that we're full...)
Starfish
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

Spirit Rider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:32 pm
Starfish wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:06 pm
Spirit Rider wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:33 pm To each their own. Everybody has their own priorities. For me, what possible quality of life can you have when there are sidewalks in front of your house? I haven't had such detriments of urbanization to my quality of life in decades. Yet I have more than a dozen good places to meet, eat, and drink a beer with friends within 2-3 miles. I thrive on the fact that there isn't the cesspool of a decent sized city within 50 miles. Nature is the requirement. I have lived in major metropolitan areas both here and abroad, no thanks for retirement.
This makes sense only if you lived in a city and in a rural environment (suburb) and you can compare. And if this is your informed choice, great. I lived more in cities than in suburbs and I know very well why they are superior. Most people in US lived only in suburbs. If you cannot walk safely, you are dependent on a machine. It's like a handicap. I find it extraordinary stressful.
Did you miss the bolded part of my last sentence. I have lived in cities of 1M and 3M, and in my opinion the quality of life is definitely inferior. I find it far less stressful to not live in a large city. You have your view and I have mine, neither is right or wrong. You don't know, you just have an opinion that is no more an absolute truth than mine.
You are trying to drag this on personal preference territory. My statement is that is superior objectively speaking, because of access to things, usually better health care, distance to people, less isolation, more activities, less dependence on others. Of course in top of that personal preferences trumps everything.
Maybe I am not right but "I don't like it" does not qualify as a discussion.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

stoptothink wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:33 am
jibantik wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm
vitaflo wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.
Yes, MN is a frozen wasteland, please don't move here! You will die of frostbite just by looking outside! /s

Honestly, the weather is the reason MN is America's best kept secret. Unlike the Mountain West, I hope it stays that way.
That's the thing. In a cold place you can actively do something, i.e., wear warm clothes, to still be able to do things outside. In a place like Florida in the summer, you can run around buck neked and it will still be unbearable to do anything outside.
Again, personal preference. I currently live in Utah, where it is cold at least 6 months a year, but I previously lived in Houston and Mesa where it pretty much never gets cold. A lot of people would say that Mesa and Houston are unbearable in the summer; in Mesa area, people rarely go outside between April and October. In both places I rode my bike to work and school year around and the heat didn't bother me. I'm sure I wouldn't be fond of the weather in Alaska, but for the most part I've found that weather isn't that big of a deal to me.
You are young. Most older people I know have issues with excessive heat, or cold.
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