"The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

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fortfun
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by fortfun »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
I do tend to think that healthy living is a bit "contagious." It seems everyone out here in CO is always biking, hiking, running, etc. We have great trails, paid for with taxes and lottery, that help a lot too. Not to mention a few mountains :)
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Dottie57 »

Youngblood wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:31 pm
celia wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:29 pm
South Dakota, the second-best state, has the second-highest total workforce consisting of people aged 65 or older.
This doesn't sound like it should be second-best, if you will have to continue working. Is that supposed to be what they do
in retirement?

rick51 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:15 pm I once lamented to a Floridian friend that by the time I was ready to retire all the real estate in Florida would be gone. He said with a wry smile,not to worry, a third of the real estate in Florida is for sale every day.
That's likely because of the turn-over after death (or needing to move to a nursing home).
Yes, Florida is God's waiting room.
And a hot and humid one.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Dottie57 »

grok87 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:29 pm here's a link to the actual study.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-wors ... ire/18592/

I think this is useful because you can see the subrankings for affordability, quality of life and healthcare.

for example Minnesota is in the bottom quintile for affordability but is ranked #1 for quality of life and #1 for healthcare.
seems like a possibly attractive trade off to me...
i.e. maybe you get what you pay for...

cheers,
grok
Minnesotan here. I think taxes really hit hard. SS is mostly taxed and income tax is fairly high. I think the inheritance is fairly high too. Housing - don’t know.

I like the 4 seasons although I wish winter was less cold and snowy.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Tdubs »

Sometimes places are affordable for a reason. Can't imagine living in retirement in some of the places in the top ten.
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fortfun
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by fortfun »

Tdubs wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:06 pm Sometimes places are affordable for a reason. Can't imagine living in retirement in some of the places in the top ten.
Like CO :)
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Colorado14 »

fortfun wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:42 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
I do tend to think that healthy living is a bit "contagious." It seems everyone out here in CO is always biking, hiking, running, etc. We have great trails, paid for with taxes and lottery, that help a lot too. Not to mention a few mountains :)
If you want to believe yet another ranking (https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest- ... s/rankings), 7 of the top 20 healthiest counties in the U.S. are in Colorado. So, I would agree that the healthy living is contagious; it's a big part of the lifestyle/culture here. Also, in case you are wondering, I live in the #1 ranked county... :D But I do love FortFun (#34, which is also very impressive.)
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fortfun
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by fortfun »

Colorado13 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:24 pm
If you want to believe yet another ranking (https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest- ... s/rankings), 7 of the top 20 healthiest counties in the U.S. are in Colorado. So, I would agree that the healthy living is contagious; it's a big part of the lifestyle/culture here. Also, in case you are wondering, I live in the #1 ranked county... :D But I do love FortFun (#34, which is also very impressive.)
The teacher pay could be a bit better, though.... :)
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by LilyFleur »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
Mississippi is the state with the least-educated residents.
"Researchers at the London School of Economics have found that going to college can even increase your life expectancy by a decade."
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10- ... -2018.html

I would surmise that since most if not all of the retirees in Florida come from states that have higher rates of education than Mississippi, that that would account for the difference in life expectancy.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by MN-Investor »

This is another Minnesotan who has no desire to move to another state.

Yes, it's expensive, but we were able to make good incomes here so I can afford it.

Like a lot of retirees - and especially since I'm a recent widow - I want to live near family.

As far as the weather? The great thing about being retired is that I can usually postpone going somewhere if the weather is stormy or too cold or snowy. My suburb is great at clearing the streets, so I'm not usually confined for long to the house. I can hire folks to mow and to clear the snow. Actually, I'm seriously thinking of buying a condo. Then I can just lock the door, hop on a plane, and visit any of my sisters in farther off states.

Life is good in Minnesota. Expensive, but good.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

fortfun wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:42 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
I do tend to think that healthy living is a bit "contagious." It seems everyone out here in CO is always biking, hiking, running, etc. We have great trails, paid for with taxes and lottery, that help a lot too. Not to mention a few mountains :)
I wouldn't dispute that there is a 'lifestyle contagion'. But I dispute that that alone should take the most affordable state for retirees down to #43.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

LilyFleur wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:38 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
Mississippi is the state with the least-educated residents.
"Researchers at the London School of Economics have found that going to college can even increase your life expectancy by a decade."
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10- ... -2018.html

I would surmise that since most if not all of the retirees in Florida come from states that have higher rates of education than Mississippi, that that would account for the difference in life expectancy.
Yes, education, along with residents' ethnicity, probably account for the lion's share of the life expectancy difference, neither of which are 'contagious' to immigrating retirees.
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fortfun
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by fortfun »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:56 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:38 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:06 pm
bengal22 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:42 pm These lists always seem a little suspect to me.
For good reason in this case. The methods used to derive the rankings are obviously very flawed.

For instance, while it's already been shown that $1 million lasts longer in Mississippi than in any other state, this study ranks MS 43rd because life expectancies there are low. So moving there will be hazardous to a retiree's health because you will 'catch obesity', the primary cause of MS's low life expectancy, but you won't two states over in Florida? And then they rank South Dakota as #2, despite the extremely harsh winters (I lived in ND for five years, so I have a really good idea of what they're like)?

It's just clickbait.
Mississippi is the state with the least-educated residents.
"Researchers at the London School of Economics have found that going to college can even increase your life expectancy by a decade."
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/the-10- ... -2018.html

I would surmise that since most if not all of the retirees in Florida come from states that have higher rates of education than Mississippi, that that would account for the difference in life expectancy.
Yes, education, along with residents' ethnicity, probably account for the lion's share of the life expectancy difference, neither of which are 'contagious' to immigrating retirees.
Interestingly, Mississippi has the highest vaccination rates: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-unhea ... ation-rate
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by sergio »

btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
Minnesota does suck, as does most of the midwest, for QOL. And I say this as someone who lived there for >10 years and in the midwest (WI/IL) the rest of my life.

Income taxes are also very high as is the sales tax. Housing is middle of the road. Schools are good, which doesn't really mean a whole lot for a retired person. Sure, it's beautiful outside in the late spring, summer, and early fall, but the other 6 months are miserable: dangerous driving, very little sunlight, staying indoors a lot, ice dams, and so on.

My coworkers 70+ year old mother in law had a total wipe out on her icy driveway earlier this year getting the paper. Required major surgery, significant hospital time, and physical therapy. But at least the health care is good! How someone at that age is still willing to put up with winter is beyond me.

A non-trivial number of people I know in MN have winter homes in AZ or FL and are really only here to be near family during the summers.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by InvestSlow »

I'm not retired, but currently live in Arkansas (#44). I took a week-long trip to my home state of South Dakota (#2) in February.

I don't agree with these rankings. I know lots of "snow birds" that move south to retire. Know of hardly any "sun birds" that migrate in the reverse direction.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Random Musings »

If I had a dollar for every top # list on the internet.

Or even a quarter....

RM
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by mlebuf »

A ranking of the best states to retire or whatever likely sells magazines or attracts eyeballs to websites. However there is no one place that's a best place to retire for everyone because we all have different tastes and preferences. Here's a ranking of states from Kiplinger. You will notice that their list is somewhat different.

https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/ret ... ml?cid=GEM

We each need to decide which places could be a good fit for us and visit them for a few weeks each. Relying on magazine articles may be a good starting point, but I wouldn't move to any place based on what I read.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Tycoon wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:58 pm South Dakota? I don't think I've ever heard, or read, of anyone retiring to South Dakota. Maybe it's the hidden gem I've been searching for.
South Dakota has a lot of people who live in their motorhomes, claim residency in South Dakota and may drive through once per year. South Dakota's residency laws encourage this. We even have retired friends who used to live in SD but now have homes in IA and AZ and continue to maintain legal residency in SD. I'm sure this throws the numbers off. Not that it's not a nice place....in the summer.

P.S. There's no income tax in SD.
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

InvestSlow wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:01 pm I'm not retired, but currently live in Arkansas (#44). I took a week-long trip to my home state of South Dakota (#2) in February.

I don't agree with these rankings. I know lots of "snow birds" that move south to retire. Know of hardly any "sun birds" that migrate in the reverse direction.
Good point, although there are a number of retirees who head north and/or west in the winter, at least briefly for skiing. Some of the best skiers out one of the big resorts in our area are in the aptly named "80+ club." Their lift tickets are free. :D
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by celia »

Spirit Rider wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:39 pm This study like all other attempts to apply an arbitrary and subjective model to a fixed set of metrics is of little real value.

This is true of things like Consumer Reports product evaluations, Morningstar mutual fund ratings, and Saving for College 529 plan ratings.

The overall scores/ratings are pretty much meaningless. The real value is drilling down to the compilation of the raw data and substituting your own prioritizations.
+99

Money magazine used to have a yearly column in the 1990s or 2000s called "Best Places to Retire" and about 30 places were listed out of the 2,000? or so that were even considered. After it came out, someone I know suggested that we should retire to place #1. I ignored it. The following year, that person suggested retiring to the new #1 place and I ignored her again. In the third year I asked if all the people from the first year's #1 are supposed to move to the next year's #1 and keep moving every year after that. No answer. Later we had a discussion about using different criteria each year and shifting priorities among all the criteria. The last year I saw the survey, they put it on their website (it's no longer there) so you could select your own criteria and weigh them according to what is most important to you and ignore the things that don't matter to you. Lo and behold, it turned out the "best place for DH and I to retire" is right where we were already living!
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by tennisplyr »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
The Florida summers are very humid. I can't imagine playing pickleball in July and August. Do people really do that?
I play tennis all year 'round. Just drink a lot and towel off...beats snow, ice and cold! Right now the weather is spectacular.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Spirit Rider »

tennisplyr wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:52 am I play tennis all year 'round. Just drink a lot and towel off...beats snow, ice and cold! Right now the weather is spectacular.
Just drink a lot of the right stuff, you are the pickle ball and you don't feel/mind the snow, ice and cold. Right now the weather in NH is spectacular.
Last edited by Spirit Rider on Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Greg in Idaho »

livesoft wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:21 pm I like to split my time between a couple of states: Bliss and Ignorance.
A false dichotomy
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Greg in Idaho »

One of the more ridiculous features of these state lists is how it lumps the whole state together...as if Yreka and San Diego are comparable...or that Sioux Falls and Pine Gap are...
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by MathWizard »

Greg in Idaho wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:27 am One of the more ridiculous features of these state lists is how it lumps the whole state together...as if Yreka and San Diego are comparable...or that Sioux Falls and Pine Gap are...
I don't know Pine Gap S Dak.

Did you mean Pine Ridge?
Buffalo Gap?
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by StevieG72 »

Taylor, confirmation bias? Just kidding....I live in Va currently which is apparently mediocre. ( personal property tax in Va. is burdensome)

For those that moved to Florida for retirement did you find the transition difficult?

My observations....I have a few close friends and my entire family lives in Virginia, moving to Florida would put many miles between us. In early retirement frequent travel will be fun, later years can prove to be more difficult.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by MathWizard »

elgob.bogle wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:26 pm I wonder how much, if any, of South Dakota's ranking is due to RV enthusiasts that travel around the US camping, but use South Dakota as a base state for tax purposes. If one looks online, you can see a number of sites that offer to process South Dakota residency packages at low fees for RV & other users. I've thought of doing it, but I am already established in Florida.

elgob
The RV issue is part of it. It looks like much of the ranking is due to the lack of income taxes.

The fact that S. Dak has a small population and therefore has lots of farmers as a percentage of its population may affect this,
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JackoC »

FrugalInvestor wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:38 pm
Tycoon wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:58 pm South Dakota? I don't think I've ever heard, or read, of anyone retiring to South Dakota. Maybe it's the hidden gem I've been searching for.
South Dakota has a lot of people who live in their motorhomes, claim residency in South Dakota and may drive through once per year. South Dakota's residency laws encourage this. We even have retired friends who used to live in SD but now have homes in IA and AZ and continue to maintain legal residency in SD. I'm sure this throws the numbers off. Not that it's not a nice place....in the summer.

P.S. There's no income tax in SD.
This has been mentioned a couple of times. But, a) can someone cite a figure showing it's really significant relative to the whole (albeit fairly small) population of SD? and b) even assuming so how this is anymore relevant to the study results that than any other variation in demographics? Again if you look at the methodology of that study, 40/30/30 affordability/QOL/healthcare some of the affordability and a lot of the healthcare metrics are a function of who already lives there. The Upper Midwest tends in general to have less negative social statistics (poverty, lack of education, poor health) than most other parts of the country, particularly the South. There have been several posts back and forth on that also, are these things 'contagious' to a newcomer retiree? Not literally obviously, but perhaps in a way they sort of are.

Anyway IMO the high ranking of SD is neither a mystery, obviously bogus, due mainly to RV's, etc. Basically you have positive Upper Midwest social stats, like say MN, with a lot lower taxes, a generally lower cost of living and, apparently, pretty good healthcare cluster in southeast part of the state for a small population state. And the survey again only weighs weather at 2.61% of the total. I think most people weight weather way higher than that in retirement discussions, though not everybody, and just IMO the only places in the US with actually good weather tend to be expensive, far away from us, and not on our cultural wavelength: as in the West Coast. I'm pretty sure I would not find FL summers tolerable. I might or might not find southeast SD winters tolerable. Although it's not out of the question for us to have two homes, with official residency in a zero income tax state (FL winter home, SD or WY summer home?). Also not out of the question we just stay put and keep paying through the nose in NJ, it is home. :happy

But the post about seeing whether you get value for money in your taxes, sorry, the tax system (which I'm neither endorsing nor criticizing) is designed so that better off people pay more than they get, and retirees don't have dependents (we pay separate school taxes more than most people's total property taxes, but no students in the house anymore). You pretty much just get less for what you pay, as a well off retiree, the higher the state and local taxes are. Which again is maybe tolerable for us, but that's reality.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by ankonaman »

JustinR wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:32 pm Doesn't Florida get freak hurricanes every few years? No thanks.
I used to live in RI. One of the worst states to retire in due to high taxation, higher cost of living, and one of the few states that does not give a retiree a tax break on anything; RI will tax you to the max on SS, property, sales tax, investments and even imposes a property tax on vehicles which will erode your investment capital. It is however Very low on the hurricane fear rating scale. I have resided in FL for 20 years now. The hurricane fear mongering is way overplayed. If you are worried about hurricanes simply live farther inland in the state. Some beautiful areas with lakes and ponds. Quite frankly this will be our next move, further inland in FL as the coastal areas are becoming quite overcrowded from the growth boom. It seems everyone wants to live on the coastlines and tend to ignore other areas. FL has tax advantages, great weather, and reasonable cost of living. Our biggest cost increases as of late have been home insurance due to storms. Maybe I'm just used to it as I was a Naval Officer and spent time in Guam which has a bulls eye on it as far as Typhoons (Hurricanes) go. Bottom line RI had a prolonged winter, high taxes, higher cost of living but much better restaurants. :sharebeer Florida has lower taxes, cheaper cost of living, great weather but meh restaurants. In retirement I plan on making the best of both worlds by keeping my state of residence in FL and traveling around the US. My retirement portfolio will thank me.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by CULater »

Limited value to rate entire states. That's about 10% of the variance. The specific place that you live is the other 90%.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by oldzey »

Thanks, Taylor.

After the past winter here in the Midwest (with the polar vortex bonus), I would seriously consider moving to Florida.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Valuethinker »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:26 pm My home state of PA is number 9. There are some nice financial benefits for retirement. The state does not tax retirement income such as IRA/401k withdrawals, Roth conversions, Pensions and Social Security. Local government only taxes earned income. Here in western PA, we have a really good health care network through UPMC (University of Pittsburgh Medical Center).

Still, I would not recommend that anyone move here. Our schools are strongly dependent on property taxes which hurts us retired people. Our gasoline tax is the highest in the entire country. The state government is very large, burdensome and backward. The state has the additional burden of subsidizing Philadelphia. The weather is mostly terrible too.
I had a friend (late career working) who moved back to outside Pittsburgh from Southern California.

His reasons

- far lower housing cost in PA. His suburban home in Orange County (Irvine?) Replaced by a nice house with 2.5 acres and adjacent to woodlands

- he liked to cycle to work in CA but although not main roads was nearly killed by an inattentive van driver. I presume he now drives a longer distance to work but traffic in PA nothing like southern California

- although he was an active ice hockey player in OC I guess he felt the same opportunities would be available to him locally in PA

I don't know about taxes etc (I imagine he is paid more than 100k USD pa). He did grow up in Ontario (although he is AmerIcan) so he's used to winter weather. Outdoors is very important to him.

So people do move to Pittsburgh for lifestyle and Cost Of Living situation.

I think this just says "horses for courses". It really depends.

FWIW if we took Amazon at face value both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia would have been excellent locations. Both have excellent air and transport links, fantastic local universities and some "funkiness" to attract young workers. As well as very affordable housing etc.

Just to be close to the CMU elec eng and comp sci faculty and labs ... and even the Pittsburgh philosophy department.

It's an open question whether the promised fiscal benefits of other locations trumped that. We won't be able to bottom that here and It opens up non forum questions re politics.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Valuethinker »

oldzey wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:39 am Thanks, Taylor.

After the past winter here in the Midwest (with the polar vortex bonus), I would seriously consider moving to Florida.
I think one needs to live a bad hurricane season in Florida or be confident one could bug out easily.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by willthrill81 »

Valuethinker wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:49 am
oldzey wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:39 am Thanks, Taylor.

After the past winter here in the Midwest (with the polar vortex bonus), I would seriously consider moving to Florida.
I think one needs to live a bad hurricane season in Florida or be confident one could bug out easily.
And the ability to do so is likely to decline as you age.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by goodenyou »

I aim to retire in the state of happiness. The rest is noise.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by brokendirtdart »

I would love to find a no kidding across the board easy to read comparison of the states(preferably in Excel), but I haven't yet.

I am about two years out from military retirement and have been bouncing between mid/northern New Hampshire and mid Maine for post military locations. I still have family in another New England state, but I won't move to that state.

Some of the things I've come across:

Taxes:
Both NH and ME exempt military retirement. NH does so with no income tax.
ME will tax investment income which hurts when I liquidate funds to create a house downpayment.
NH has a small Dividend & Interest tax which when I test calculated it is small even for my not very efficient portfolio.
NH has a very high property tax rate which varies across some towns. The drawback of eliminating other taxes.
ME also has a somewhat high property tax rate, also varies across towns, but will exempt $6K when I turn 62.
Both states have Excise taxes on vehicles, but ME is supposedly higher
NH has no sales tax

Other stuff(some trivial):
NH rental prices are expensive(average $2K a month for single family house). Using zillow searches of both states, they both are, but ME is slightly less. Intent is to rent in the area before buying somewhere.
Both states require front license plates-yuck
Both states require vehicle inspection-yuck
ME has redemption fees on recyclables such as cans. I "enjoy" recycling, but the logistics of dealing with redemption centers and bags of uncrushed and bee/ant attracting cans may be a bridge too far.
NH seems to be getting crowded so quiet areas look to be getting rarer. Looks to be one of the "it" states.
ME is more rural which can make shopping more difficult. I use Walmart and Lowes/Home Depot as a landmark, but rural is my preference. I'll ideally be able to set up a small rifle/pistol range wherever I land.
Health care seems to be a wash-all depends on what area of either state you live. Then you just go to Boston right down the road.
ME seems to have slightly less nanny state quality of life laws than NH. For now.
I can find part time employment in either state to supplement retirement income.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by finite_difference »

I think my ideal state would be more based on climate.

I could see living in CO most of the time, and when it gets too cold, then spending time in Hawaii or Puerto Rico for a few months each year :)

Florida can be too hot and humid. Plus it has alligators.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by mariezzz »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:25 pm
btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:19 pm Grok, Any survey that ranks Minnesota as number 1 in Quality of life is just flawed IMO. How can you say it is wonderful to live in a place where it will freeze you or give you severe frostbite if you stay outside for 10 minutes. And the weather is like this for 5-6 months every winter. That is just crazy. My sister raised her kids and lived in La Crosse, Wisconsin for years. That city is across the river from Minnesota. She had a heated dog house as it was too cold to let her dog stay outside. She and all her neighbors had tri-level houses with upstairs back entries due to too much snow covering up the front door at ground level. The standard winter entertainment is puzzles and x-box in the basement for kids and ice fishing and drinking beer for Dads. I could go on but you get the idea....

So IMO this survey is mostly junk......
And yet South Dakota, one state to the west, is #2 overall? I completely agree. It's junk. But thankfully, I have a hard time believing that any sane person would actually rely on such a 'study' to determine whether they want to spend their golden years.
These surveys are always junk! What is 'good' all depends on the specifics of a person's situation plus their own values and preferences.

During the winter in MN, IA, ND, SD, WI, most of the time, you can stay outside for far longer than 10 minutes without risking frostbite! Very strange statement about the upstairs back entries. We had just 3 steps to all external doors (further north than La Crosse). The heated dog house was nice of her, but many people just keep their dogs inside. The cold can be very cruel, though, to people and animals who don't have a home.

Many people in those areas do spend time outside in the winter: playing in snow, ice skating, skiing (cross-country and downhill, with emphasis on 'hill', not 'mountain'), walking, running, some even commute by bike in winter! (although far fewer than in summer). As kids we would go back and forth - outside for 30-60 min, until we got too cold, back inside to warm up, eat, then back out. This was in the days before the modern tech fabrics! We regularly had gloves in the gas oven (heat from pilot was warm enough to dry them out faster, but we would also turn oven on for a few minutes to warm it more; always had to check oven before using it to cook anything!), boots tipped up over heating vents, and so on. Socks would work as mittens in a pinch. We had a village of snow forts carved into our yard, complete with snow chairs to sit on. One winter I had a small library in a tupperware container.

Many people living in more temperate climates spend their lives indoors, glued to screens, and in hot areas, it's so hot you can't pleasantly (and sometimes safely) go outside 6+ months of the year. If I had to choose, I'd choose an area like the upper midwest over 90% of the US. But am happy others choose to live where I won't!
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by MnD »

Interesting to see CO so high given many years of strong housing inflation for both purchases and rent. We're insulated having bought in 1991 and wouldn't consider moving elsewhere but it's tough for people that didn't buy here quite a while ago, renters or moving in from LCOL states.

I hate gross bugs, humidity and flat topography so FL would be a non-starter. If I wasn't insulated on housing costs or otherwise more income-restricted there are areas of South Dakota (and Wyoming) that are appealing but I wouldn't be happy as a retiree about the harsher climate, status of medical facilities, more connecting flights to get anywhere and a few other things that can't be discussed here.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by 2015 »

fortfun wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:16 pm
Tdubs wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:06 pm Sometimes places are affordable for a reason. Can't imagine living in retirement in some of the places in the top ten.
Like CO :)
Image
That's akin to the view outside my windows (though I am in CA, not CO). I read tons of books and articles like this before retirement. Not a single one of them added value when it came time to choose.

One of the best statements I've ever read was "no retirement location is perfect." One must resist the Addiction To Certainty when it comes to these things.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by jibantik »

Heh Florida is number 1 :oops:. You couldn't pay me to live in Florida.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by PinotGris »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:50 am Bogleheads:

How does your state rank as a place to retire?

The best and worst U.S. states for retirement

Best wishes.
Taylor
21. We have 4 months of cold weather to contend with but we love it her. Only drawback is personal, our kids live on other coasts - west and south. Taxes are not the highest and we get value for the taxes - good schools, services, a cultural life, international airport 1/2 hour away. We spent a month in CA in January and that is our snowbird plan: off-season rental, beautiful places, and family. The month away made the winter so much more tolerable.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by JackoC »

MnD wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:46 am Interesting to see CO so high given many years of strong housing inflation for both purchases and rent. We're insulated having bought in 1991 and wouldn't consider moving elsewhere but it's tough for people that didn't buy here quite a while ago, renters or moving in from LCOL states.

I hate gross bugs, humidity and flat topography so FL would be a non-starter. If I wasn't insulated on housing costs or otherwise more income-restricted there are areas of South Dakota (and Wyoming) that are appealing but I wouldn't be happy as a retiree about the harsher climate, status of medical facilities, more connecting flights to get anywhere and a few other things that can't be discussed here.
You can see more details of the study here. It's not necessarily ignoring things some posters think it's ignoring, though might have different findings than their impressions. For example it ranks CO 4th and SD 5th in healthcare (behind MN, HI and MA) but WY 36th. It could be wrong, but it's not recognizing a difference between CO and SD on that count, whereas it agrees with you between CO and WY. Although comparing places in CO or WY near their border, it's seems harder to say access to major medical facilities (on Medicare) or airports or the climate is really different, but taxes are.
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-wors ... ire/18592/

Rounding it out CO, WY and SD are 26th, 8th and 9th in affordability, 9th, 12th and 22nd in QOL, not drastically at odds with likely conventional wisdom in those categories. It seems SD's very high overall rank is a function of emphasizing affordability over QOL and healthcare (40/30/30), very good SD healthcare ranking per the survey, and only weighting climate as 2.61%-points of the 30% devoted to Quality of Life. Note that MN is 1st in QOL *and* healthcare in this survey, gets knocked down somewhat by being 43rd in affordability. But if you emphasized climate more from a cold-hating perspective, it would obviously change.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by dave_k »

Confirms my plans to retire to FL :D! Not that I take this too seriously. I'm glad I already own the property, and if it wasn't waterfront I probably wouldn't consider it. I'll spend summers in RI, which is way low on the list, but it won't be my primary residence.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by S&L1940 »

munemaker wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:27 pm
tennisplyr wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:29 pm Hard to argue with Florida (especially Sarasota) at #1......I'm good :happy
The Florida summers are very humid. I can't imagine playing pickleball in July and August. Do people really do that?
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Kitty Telltales »

Cosmo wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:05 pm
S&L1940 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:58 pm Send out the word, Florida is full up
We have enough for now

Truth be known (or my opinion), any state that offers a climate that gets people outside to walk or play (where tennis and golf can be played all year long) is a good place to be.
There is a lot to be said for longevity
Having lived in SE Texas for over 25 years and having a good "taste" of Florida weather down here, I really struggle with this. Miserable heat and humidity for a good 7-8 months out of the year. Who wants to play golf in those sauna conditions? The combination of heat and humidity puts stress on people, especially the elderly. I really don't get it. How is this good for longevity?
One needs more than a "taste" of Florida to become acclimated. The best place to retire has more to do with the people you want to be around and the activities available that you are interested in. I moved to Germany thinking it was quaint and looking forward to the security of it's social system. Also my husband is from here so that had a little something to do with it. However, it's the people I have met that make it wonderful. You stop noticing the mountains after a while.

I feel the same about South Florida. For years I visited my mom down there wondering if one could ever actually be happy without seasons. Sadly it wasn't until she passed away and I went more often to look after my aunt that I was there long enough realize much more about Florida. There, those who do work, spend their days talking about what they will do for fun outside in the evening, they don't just head home for the sofa.

I learned to sail at that time and I'd join up with a group of mostly seniors at a sailing school south of Miami. I used to be so impressed that these "old salts" were enjoying their retirements so fully. If they whined about weather, it was if there wasn't enough wind. The poster of this thread was one of those "old salts". I never saw a happier group of retirees than Taylor and his buddies.

And I learned that Florida does have seasons. The flowers bloom at different times a year and the birds migrate seasonally as well. One has to wise up to the climate and play golf early in the morning, or anytime of day from November to April. It's amazing!
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by billthecat »

What is the best state to be a resident of (for US tax purposes) while traveling the world? Cost of living won't matter, though state taxes would; quality of life won't matter because you won't be there; health care won't matter if you are getting care while abroad.

Strictly on an income tax basis, then, which state is the best, and avoids gotchas (like having no earned income tax but having capital gains tax)?

Are all these equal, for income (earned, small business, interest, dividends, capital gains) tax purposes: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming.
Last edited by billthecat on Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by S&L1940 »

finite_difference wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:34 am I think my ideal state would be more based on climate.

Florida can be too hot and humid. Plus it has alligators.
Yeah we in gated communities have been complaining about security letting those alligators in without showing proper ID
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by UpperNwGuy »

billthecat wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:05 pm What is the best state to be a resident of (for US tax purposes) while traveling the world? Cost of living won't matter, though state taxes would; quality of life won't matter because you won't be there; health care won't matter if you are getting care while abroad.

Strictly on an income tax basis, then, which state is the best, and avoids gotchas (like having no earned income tax but having capital gains tax)?

Are all these equal, for income (earned, small business, interest, dividends, capital gains) tax purposes: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming.
Several of my friends who live in Europe use Florida as their state of US residence for tax purposes, but I don’t know the details.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by vitaflo »

btenny wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:16 pm I see no reason why Minnesota is so much higher than Florida and Arizona in QOL. Up there you have to hibernate for six months to not freeze.
Yes, MN is a frozen wasteland, please don't move here! You will die of frostbite just by looking outside! /s

Honestly, the weather is the reason MN is America's best kept secret. Unlike the Mountain West, I hope it stays that way.
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Re: "The best and worst U.S. states for retirement"

Post by Starfish »

fortfun wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:16 pm
Tdubs wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:06 pm Sometimes places are affordable for a reason. Can't imagine living in retirement in some of the places in the top ten.
Like CO :)
Image

Colorado is beautiful, but it doesn't have good cities. Nature is great, but it covers only half of the requirement.
This why I have never understood the idea of quality of life in these studies. What quality of life when you have no sidewalk in front of your house and cannot walk to 5-10 places to meet, eat or drink a beer with your friends? Who wants to have to drive at 75?
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