Best watch for around $5,000? [Archived]

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4977
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by EnjoyIt »

psteinx wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:46 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:46 pmAnd a 2 year old's drawing is indistinguishable from a Picasso. Both serve the same function. 8-)
Eh, really? You think there are lots of folks here paying $5000 for a scrawl that looks like a 2 year old's? I rather doubt that. (Yes, some expensive art is simplistic in execution, but it's still not really the stuff that a 2 year old would make.)

Anyways, much fine art basically falls into the same category as jewelry and $5000 watches. Yes, an expert can distinguish the crazy expensive from the merely well executed, but most regular folks can't, at least not without very close examination or examination of labels (artist's signature, Rolex logo, etc.)
I think there are a lot of people paying a lot of money for very expensive things that they for some reason or another have a perceived value that may or may not be worth the money spent. It could be that many many people have a similar perceived value. I will elaborate with my own person life example I have shared before.

A several years back I needed to buy 2 TVs I did a ton of research and at the time figured the panasonic 65" plasma was the best for our needs. I paid $4500 for that TV. The second TV was not that important so I bought a lower model 65" Panasonic for $2500. These two TVs are still in my house today, in two different rooms, and to this day I can not tell any difference in quality. I paid an extra $2k for perceived quality that existed only in tech sheets and forum discussions. They did not materialize in real life.

Personally I believe we human beings tend to overvalue minor improvements in quality. Despite that, we should do what makes us happy if we can comfortably afford it even if it is irrational.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
dknightd
Posts: 2376
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:57 am

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by dknightd »

Are you buying it keep time, or are you buying it as an investment?
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

I gave up on this topic when it started mentioning Rolex.
It's like opening a topic about great wines and finding opinions on how to combine Coke in Premiere Cru wines to make them more palatable.

:D
Independent George
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Independent George »

7eight9 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:49 pm
psteinx wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:43 pm 1) A $50 Timex is not entirely junk.
2) Find me a cheeseburger that costs ~100x what a basic, but not bottom of the barrel cheeseburger costs ($4-$6 or so). I can see spending $15, maybe, for a "fancy" cheeseburger, but not ~$500. (Yes, they probably exist - funky Japanese beef or whatever, but you probably won't see a 11+ year, 1300+ post thread here on BH extolling them...)
$500? Try $5,000. In its defense it does come with a drink. :happy

FleurBurger 5000: Expensive Burger, Not a Robot (Even Though That's What Its Name Sounds Like)
https://www.delish.com/food/news/a38357 ... rger-5000/
I have not (and will not) gone up to $5k, but I did once splurge on Daniel Boulud's burger. It tasted great, but the ratios were all wrong; it somehow lost the soul of a burger - it was more a chopped steak served with foie gras and truffles. The black label burger at Minetta Tavern ($33) remains the gold standard of burgers for me - the flavor is incredible, but at the same time, it's still a burger. That's apparently a tough balance to strike, because most of the fancy burgers I've had all try to gild the lily and turn it into something other than a burger.

I think the point I would make is that some burgers are expensive because it's served with gold foil (which is stupid because it adds no flavor and exists purely for the sake of conspicuous consumption), but others use expensive ingredients and are prepared with care. Some of it is branding and snob appeal, but at the same time, that branding is usually earned - there is a reason why Daniel Boulud and Hubert Keller are famous to begin with. Just because there are investment bankers who buy fancy burgers purely because they are expensive and want to show off, doesn't mean there aren't also foodies who genuinely want to try those burgers and like or dislike them on their own merits as burgers rather than being only interested in the cost.

I can respect those who don't see the big fuss, and are perfectly happy with In-N-Out. I happen to love In-N-Out. But to say that anyone who eats an expensive burger is wasting their money and is only doing it out of snobbery because In-N-Out is just as good is confusing the gold foil for the dry aged short rib.
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
RomeoMustDie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:07 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by RomeoMustDie »

GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
BruDude
Posts: 3457
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by BruDude »

RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
You can say the same about Omega rolex etc. I'd rather have wasted 200 on name than 5000-10000 dollars on one. If mechanical watches can be had for under 500 than why pay thousands for one? I think that If you're in the top 2% of earners than have at it. If not well .... I don't understand watch hobbyists anyway --and do not care--one tells time with better technology and gets me to work on time and they both say "swiss made" as well. so what else do you want unless you are financially independent wit a comfortable retirement ALREADY and/or made over 250k. But most will never make that.

PS-that 200 dollars came out of my discretionary budget. That is money outside the 20% savings that I can spend on things like restaurants, happy hour, playing pool with friends on Sat. night , movies etc. I doubt many can say they could do that with a 500 dollar and up watch. I'd actually be curious to hear the way watch guys bought it in terms of their budget i.e. do you make only 100k a year and saved x amount for years? Or was that just money for savings and retirement that you bought a watch with on impulse?
BruDude
Posts: 3457
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by BruDude »

GoldenOne wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:46 am
BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
You can say the same about Omega rolex etc. I'd rather have wasted 200 on name than 5000-10000 dollars on one. If mechanical watches can be had for under 500 than why pay thousands for one? I think that If you're in the top 2% of earners than have at it. If not well .... I don't understand watch hobbyists anyway --and do not care--one tells time with better technology and gets me to work on time and they both say "swiss made" as well. so what else do you want unless you are financially independent wit a comfortable retirement ALREADY and/or made over 250k. But most will never make that.

PS-that 200 dollars came out of my discretionary budget. That is money outside the 20% savings that I can spend on things like restaurants, happy hour, playing pool with friends on Sat. night , movies etc. I doubt many can say they could do that with a 500 dollar and up watch. I'd actually be curious to hear the way watch guys bought it in terms of their budget i.e. do you make only 100k a year and saved x amount for years? Or was that just money for savings and retirement that you bought a watch with on impulse?
You can look at a Rolex or Omega and immediately tell the difference in quality compared to a cheap "designer" watch that is made with a quartz movement and probably made in China. Saying there's no difference between them is like saying there's no difference between a Ferrari and a Kia because they both get you from point A to point B. There's no difference between a Wagyu A5 steak and ground chuck because they both make you full.

Whether you feel a luxury item is worth the money or not is a different story, but they are most definitely not "the same thing" and you aren't paying for just a name with a Rolex, Omega, or any other high-end sought after watch (except most Jacob & Co, those are trash). If it was just a designer name plastered on a cheap movement and case, it wouldn't sell for a high price because the watch community would see it as worthless junk. That's one reason that a stupidly expensive clothing designer like Gucci can't sell their watches for more than $500, which is the price of a blank cotton t-shirt from the same brand.

Some people live by strict discretionary budget rules, some don't. I spend way too much on watches and cars, but it's what I enjoy and I know enough about both that I am net positive on both of them over the course of my life. I also have no wife and no kids, so I get to use my income for cars and watches instead. Wives and children are expensive. Cars and watches are a bargain by comparison.
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:52 am
GoldenOne wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:46 am
BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
You can say the same about Omega rolex etc. I'd rather have wasted 200 on name than 5000-10000 dollars on one. If mechanical watches can be had for under 500 than why pay thousands for one? I think that If you're in the top 2% of earners than have at it. If not well .... I don't understand watch hobbyists anyway --and do not care--one tells time with better technology and gets me to work on time and they both say "swiss made" as well. so what else do you want unless you are financially independent wit a comfortable retirement ALREADY and/or made over 250k. But most will never make that.

PS-that 200 dollars came out of my discretionary budget. That is money outside the 20% savings that I can spend on things like restaurants, happy hour, playing pool with friends on Sat. night , movies etc. I doubt many can say they could do that with a 500 dollar and up watch. I'd actually be curious to hear the way watch guys bought it in terms of their budget i.e. do you make only 100k a year and saved x amount for years? Or was that just money for savings and retirement that you bought a watch with on impulse?
You can look at a Rolex or Omega and immediately tell the difference in quality compared to a cheap "designer" watch that is made with a quartz movement and probably made in China. Saying there's no difference between them is like saying there's no difference between a Ferrari and a Kia because they both get you from point A to point B. There's no difference between a Wagyu A5 steak and ground chuck because they both make you full.

Whether you feel a luxury item is worth the money or not is a different story, but they are most definitely not "the same thing" and you aren't paying for just a name with a Rolex, Omega, or any other high-end sought after watch (except most Jacob & Co, those are trash). If it was just a designer name plastered on a cheap movement and case, it wouldn't sell for a high price because the watch community would see it as worthless junk. That's one reason that a stupidly expensive clothing designer like Gucci can't sell their watches for more than $500, which is the price of a blank cotton t-shirt from the same brand.

Some people live by strict discretionary budget rules, some don't. I spend way too much on watches and cars, but it's what I enjoy and I know enough about both that I am net positive on both of them over the course of my life. I also have no wife and no kids, so I get to use my income for cars and watches instead. Wives and children are expensive. Cars and watches are a bargain by comparison.
You totally missed the point if you thought I was comparing a quartz watch to a rolex. The "same thing" is you're just wasting money either way. The gucci watch owner only paid a mere hundred or so more than a timex owner. The rolex owner paid thousands more.

And again if mechanical watches can be had for under 500 bucks, than why pay thousands more for a rolex or breitling or whatever?

I guess there is something to be said about over spending on things like cars and watches -- it's your life but justifying that over having a wife and family is a little silly to me. One has nothing to do with the other. It sounds like you're on the wrong forum and living a champagne life on a beer and chips budget.

While yes without getting into the scale of purchases a ferari is not the same as a kia. The point is a ferari owner is presumably living within his budget and the kia within theirs. I don't say hey Joe Middle class pay check, go drive your Ferari to your middle class job despite that ferrari is superior car. At some point your income and the utility of the item has to play a role. Same applies to fancy man bracelets.
WildBill
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:47 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by WildBill »

Howdy

12 years ago Senor Petrocelli created a thread which has now encompassed the many flavors of our fellow beings.

Jesters, clowns, pedants, scholars, scolds, the self-obsessed and highly opinionated, innocent bystanders and activists, have all participated, to the great enjoyment of all, or at least most of us.

Senor Petrocelli is to be congratulated for creating a prism which refracts the multiple states of the human condition.

An epic that could stand with Balzac or Dickens.

Well done sir! May it live for another 12 years!

Horologically yours

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid
BruDude
Posts: 3457
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by BruDude »

GoldenOne wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:29 am You totally missed the point if you thought I was comparing a quartz watch to a rolex. The "same thing" is you're just wasting money either way. The gucci watch owner only paid a mere hundred or so more than a timex owner. The rolex owner paid thousands more.

And again if mechanical watches can be had for under 500 bucks, than why pay thousands more for a rolex or breitling or whatever?

I guess there is something to be said about over spending on things like cars and watches -- it's your life but justifying that over having a wife and family is a little silly to me. One has nothing to do with the other. It sounds like you're on the wrong forum and living a champagne life on a beer and chips budget.

While yes without getting into the scale of purchases a ferari is not the same as a kia. The point is a ferari owner is presumably living within his budget and the kia within theirs. I don't say hey Joe Middle class pay check, go drive your Ferari to your middle class job despite that ferrari is superior car. At some point your income and the utility of the item has to play a role. Same applies to fancy man bracelets.
Just because it's wasting money to you doesn't mean it's wasting money to someone else. How is it wasting money if you can make money on it? That isn't the primary goal, but it still holds true. If you know what you're doing, you can buy and sell watches all day long and make money off them. The watches do not have a value of $0 as soon as you buy them, they are an asset like anything else that can be sold. A very basic Rolex Submariner is worth double today what it was worth a few years ago.

Mechanical watches come with varying designs, movements, and finishing levels. Watches under $500 are generally going to have a basic "off the shelf" movement that is widely available at low cost and more generic designs. More expensive watches have "in house" movements that are exclusively made by the manufacturer, such as Rolex. They may also have more expensive materials for the case, dial, and band, such as gold/platinum/etc. Cheaper watches have cheaper finishes. Many won't hold their value in the same way that a well known high-end brand does. If you can buy a Rolex for $5k and sell it in 10 years for $10k, or you can buy a $500 watch and sell it in 10 years for $100, which was the better deal?

I'm not justifying having watches and cars over a family, I'm just saying that by not having a family yet, I have more discretionary spending money that allows me to enjoy these things without having to worry about overspending. When buying cars and watches I target certain segments that are known to hold their value extremely well so that when I inevitably want to move onto the next one, it doesn't come back to bite me. If you are just out there frivolously buying things that you know nothing about, you're bound to get ripped off and lose money.
RomeoMustDie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:07 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by RomeoMustDie »

BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
I disagree. Looking great has value to me. Having the arcane understanding that something on my wrist uses a sophisticated gear mechanism is one of those post-modern ivory tower things that I try not to fall into.
BruDude
Posts: 3457
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:28 am
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by BruDude »

RomeoMustDie wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:09 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
I disagree. Looking great has value to me. Having the arcane understanding that something on my wrist uses a sophisticated gear mechanism is one of those post-modern ivory tower things that I try not to fall into.
What I am trying to convey is that a "designer" brand watch with a quartz movement is a $20 watch from China that they are charging $500 for based on the name. You can get the same watch for a fraction of the price without the designer name on it. There's nothing wrong with buying cheap watches, I've got a bunch of them at the sub-$500 price point, but overpaying for junk with a fancy name on it isn't my deal.
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

@ brudude,

Unless you're financially independent with 7 figures then luxury goods are a waste of money.

I'm from Missouri on your claim that you can get gucci looking watches for 20 bucks. Apple watches to me are cheap looking and feeling junk for 200 dollars. so i would like to see you pst some 20 dollar watches that look like gucci ones that don't look cheap too.

You never answered that why pick on a designer watch and is only a few hundred more that looks nice at least compared with a mechanical watch that can be had for a few hundred compared with rolex which is really just a name all the same but for wayyyymore money. While I believe as you claim that rolex is better craftmanship and materials is the stainless steel really10X to 20X better than a fashion watch or other mechanical watch?


I actually went and looked at a rolex datejus before buying my Gucci. The Gucci looks different and futuristic looking and a completely different watch.

Explain to me why I should care about a watch that is old looking, like 70s looking, has a small face and looks dated and that still costs 3000 dollars at a pawn shop for an old used model? While something new and different and cool that keeps accurate time is a suckers bet despite it being 1/20th the cost?

And by the by the "keeps its value" and "you can make money on it" has already been addressed pages ago. If there is so much money to be made on flipping expensive man bracelets then why are you here learning about index funds and bonds. Just continue buying and selling watches.
Last edited by GoldenOne on Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
RomeoMustDie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:07 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by RomeoMustDie »

BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:17 pm
RomeoMustDie wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:09 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:37 am
RomeoMustDie wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:37 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:51 pm I bought a 280 dollar gucci watch recently and had to think about it for a couple of days. "it's Gucci time!"I'm sure watch guys would scoff at Gucci but who wants to have a beer with a watch guy? There are so many more interesting things that thousands will fetch than a watch. My gucci looks nice and tells time.

Having said that -- the discussion is really relevant to your ability to generate an income. If you're making 250k plus a year then yea knock yourself out. I know on the pay check front that would pretty much rule out what like 97% of all households in America--and most likely a good % of boglers as well-- making less that the 250k. If not and you're Joe Middle-class earner then it would be really tough to justify the purchase without at least a darn big nest egg saved up and the watch being one of your few luxuries after frugal living for a very long time.
I agree. Get the gucci. Designer brand watches can be had for $500 and under, look great, and tell time. What else do you need?
You’re paying for a name encased in garbage that probably cost $10 to make. Plenty of great high quality mechanical watches available for under $500.
I disagree. Looking great has value to me. Having the arcane understanding that something on my wrist uses a sophisticated gear mechanism is one of those post-modern ivory tower things that I try not to fall into.
What I am trying to convey is that a "designer" brand watch with a quartz movement is a $20 watch from China that they are charging $500 for based on the name. You can get the same watch for a fraction of the price without the designer name on it. There's nothing wrong with buying cheap watches, I've got a bunch of them at the sub-$500 price point, but overpaying for junk with a fancy name on it isn't my deal.
It's a solid point, but looking good and brand perception are worth something too. You'd be surprised that people do judge you on your appearance and the clothing brands you wear. Not that you should care.
Independent George
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Independent George »

GoldenOne wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:17 pm @ brudude,

Unless you're financially independent with 7 figures then luxury goods are a waste of money.

I'm from Missouri on your claim that you can get gucci looking watches for 20 bucks. Apple watches to me are cheap looking and feeling junk for 200 dollars. so i would like to see you pst some 20 dollar watches that look like gucci ones that don't look cheap too.

You never answered that why pick on a designer watch and is only a few hundred more that looks nice at least compared with a mechanical watch that can be had for a few hundred compared with rolex which is really just a name all the same but for wayyyymore money.

I actually went and looked at a rolex datejus before buying my Gucci. The Gucci looks different and futuristic looking and a completely different watch.

Explain to me why I should care about a watch that is old looking, like 70s looking, has a small face and looks dated and that still costs 3000 dollars at a pawn shop for an old used model? While something new and different and cool that keeps accurate time is a suckers bet despite it being 1/20th the cost?

And by the by the "keeps its value" and "you can make money on it" has already been addressed pages ago. If there is so much money to be made on flipping expensive man bracelets then why are you here learning about index funds and bonds. Just continue buying and selling watches.
Ah, yes, because your aesthetic tastes are objectively superior, as is your virtue. Not only should you not care about the tastes of anyone else, but it is also your moral obligation to denigrate them at every opportunity. This allows us to use your sterling moral fiber to guide us on what hobbies are wastes of time and money, and what are not.

Thank you, sir, for stepping in to guide us on the error of our ways.
User avatar
canadianbacon
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:04 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by canadianbacon »

Even more than the soar thread, you know things are going well when the watch thread gets bumped.
Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered.
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

Independent George wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 8:46 pm
Ah, yes, because your aesthetic tastes are objectively superior, as is your virtue. Not only should you not care about the tastes of anyone else, but it is also your moral obligation to denigrate them at every opportunity. This allows us to use your sterling moral fiber to guide us on what hobbies are wastes of time and money, and what are not.

Thank you, sir, for stepping in to guide us on the error of our ways.
Whatever. It's the same as the brown bag lunch thread. "oh I can't be bothered with preparing a lunch, it's far easier to spend 7 dollars a day". Are you making 200k a year? no> well then 7 dollars a day is a lot of money to you

Same thing here. It sounds like this guy has no budget, I bet is not a high income earner, and aspires to have a Jay Leno garage with all the toys without that Jay Leno Hollywoo paycheck. And spends the lions share of his time on fruitless activites like trying to flip cars and watches, to have a new toy when this is just a mugs game, and your time is far better spent on furthering an education and better paycheck and a real plan to finacial independence.

It's your life but I don't get why you come on here and pretend somehow you're going to be financially indy without any kind of plan.It is like Thomas Stanley pointed out -- most American households will never earn 200k in one year or a high income. The same rules I would applies to most bogleheaders but somehow we coddle people who go out and spend like rich men on new toys in the garage and bling watches. Yes maybe a rolex is a better watch is it 10X better or 20X better watch than 500 dollar mechanical watch available from several no-name watchmakers? Doubtful..proving the point you are paying for a name just the same as a fashion watch person; except paying a whole lot more for it.. If you're a multi millionaire however, what does it matter/price is no object. If you're a joe paycheck, you are chasing your tail getting involved in that kind of hobby.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4977
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by EnjoyIt »

BruDude wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:01 pm
GoldenOne wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:29 am You totally missed the point if you thought I was comparing a quartz watch to a rolex. The "same thing" is you're just wasting money either way. The gucci watch owner only paid a mere hundred or so more than a timex owner. The rolex owner paid thousands more.

And again if mechanical watches can be had for under 500 bucks, than why pay thousands more for a rolex or breitling or whatever?

I guess there is something to be said about over spending on things like cars and watches -- it's your life but justifying that over having a wife and family is a little silly to me. One has nothing to do with the other. It sounds like you're on the wrong forum and living a champagne life on a beer and chips budget.

While yes without getting into the scale of purchases a ferari is not the same as a kia. The point is a ferari owner is presumably living within his budget and the kia within theirs. I don't say hey Joe Middle class pay check, go drive your Ferari to your middle class job despite that ferrari is superior car. At some point your income and the utility of the item has to play a role. Same applies to fancy man bracelets.
Just because it's wasting money to you doesn't mean it's wasting money to someone else. How is it wasting money if you can make money on it? That isn't the primary goal, but it still holds true. If you know what you're doing, you can buy and sell watches all day long and make money off them. The watches do not have a value of $0 as soon as you buy them, they are an asset like anything else that can be sold. A very basic Rolex Submariner is worth double today what it was worth a few years ago.

Mechanical watches come with varying designs, movements, and finishing levels. Watches under $500 are generally going to have a basic "off the shelf" movement that is widely available at low cost and more generic designs. More expensive watches have "in house" movements that are exclusively made by the manufacturer, such as Rolex. They may also have more expensive materials for the case, dial, and band, such as gold/platinum/etc. Cheaper watches have cheaper finishes. Many won't hold their value in the same way that a well known high-end brand does. If you can buy a Rolex for $5k and sell it in 10 years for $10k, or you can buy a $500 watch and sell it in 10 years for $100, which was the better deal?

I'm not justifying having watches and cars over a family, I'm just saying that by not having a family yet, I have more discretionary spending money that allows me to enjoy these things without having to worry about overspending. When buying cars and watches I target certain segments that are known to hold their value extremely well so that when I inevitably want to move onto the next one, it doesn't come back to bite me. If you are just out there frivolously buying things that you know nothing about, you're bound to get ripped off and lose money.
I just want to point out that instead of spending $5k on a watch and instead buying a $500 watch and taking the remaining $4500, investing it in the S&P 500 index in the same 10 years would have yielded you 142.57% return or a total of $10,915.65. So there is an opportunity cost as well.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with spending money on a hobby that provides joy as long as one can afford doing so. I have plenty of cash to afford a nice watch, but that would not make me any happier. But, I have other hobbies that do provide me with joy and I spend my money there.

Ohh and I do wear a watch. It is a citizen I bought for about $300 about 5 years ago with a sapphire crystal face, solar powered that self adjusted date and daylight savings for me. It suits my needs perfectly.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
desiderium
Posts: 969
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:08 am

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by desiderium »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:07 am
I just want to point out that instead of spending $5k on a watch and instead buying a $500 watch and taking the remaining $4500, investing it in the S&P 500 index in the same 10 years would have yielded you 142.57% return or a total of $10,915.65. So there is an opportunity cost as well.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with spending money on a hobby that provides joy as long as one can afford doing so. I have plenty of cash to afford a nice watch, but that would not make me any happier. But, I have other hobbies that do provide me with joy and I spend my money there.

Ohh and I do wear a watch. It is a citizen I bought for about $300 about 5 years ago with a sapphire crystal face, solar powered that self adjusted date and daylight savings for me. It suits my needs perfectly.
For healthy reasons, the Rolex I wear every day (a regret-free luxury indulgence that has not performed as well as the s&p 500 as an investment) no longer fits and flops around on my wrist. The store I purchased it from is closed under the current lockdown, so I can't get the bracelet resized. I am interested in a number of other watches which I could afford but I am mindful of the current environment of financial uncertainty. The recent comments on people have made regarding their aesthetic opinions on inexpensive watches has been fun. I like the eco-drive watches but for the most part I favor mechanical watches. I have always liked the orient bambino and I may pull the trigger soon on this one, on a leather strap. https://www.orientwatchusa.com/products/ra-ap0002s10a.
mak1277
Posts: 1619
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by mak1277 »

I wish people who moralize over the price of watches would just ignore this thread.
User avatar
sunny_socal
Posts: 2291
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by sunny_socal »

Most people will find that Rolex is now about 10k, this thread started a while back.

But for those still shooting for a 5k budget the Rolex Oyster Perpetual is a good pick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03z7giqtjrY

The Jenni Elle YT channel is great for all watch fans!
User avatar
William Million
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 4:41 am
Location: A Deep Mountain

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by William Million »

If I was going to pluck down $3k for a men's watch this year, it would be for Rado Diamaster Automatic 43mm. Minimalist and classy.
Independent George
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Independent George »

I get as much enjoyment from researching watches as I do from buying or wearing one.

I'm 80% sure my next watch will be a Citizen Chronomaster, but I don't plan on buying one until I hit my next financial milestone (which looked like it would be 2021 last year, but now has been pushed back by the bear market). I will probably change my mind a half-dozen times between now and then; there will also likely be several new releases to choose from by the time I get there.

Milestone 1: Citizen Chronomaster (target 2023)
Milestone 2: Sinn 356 Flieger II Chronograph (target 2029)
Milestone 3: Grand Seiko SBGA413 (target 2034)
Powerball Jackpot: A Lange & Sohne Datograph Lumen

I keep these written down in the same spreadsheet as my IPS and tax calculators. It's good to have tangible goals.
atikovi
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by atikovi »

This is my first post in this novel thread, and think the amount you pay over maybe, $500, is just for added bling. As in, a $1,000 watch has the same guts as a $10,000 watch and it's the diamonds and precious metals added to the outside are what make the price go up.
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4977
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by EnjoyIt »

atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:33 am This is my first post in this novel thread, and think the amount you pay over maybe, $500, is just for added bling. As in, a $1,000 watch has the same guts as a $10,000 watch and it's the diamonds and precious metals added to the outside are what make the price go up.
I'm no horologist, but I think it is a bit more than that. I believe name brand plays the biggest role in price as does the metals and jewels it is made from. At some point there is a diminishing return on increasing price. But who can pay a prices on happiness? I guess jewelry and watch stores can.

As always, I add my disclaimer to this thread. Although I can afford a very expensive watch, it will buy me no additional happiness compared to my current $300 watch. I do pay lots of money on some of my other hobbies.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
atikovi
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by atikovi »

My $55 Casio digital is all I want in a watch.
OCWhale
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:59 am

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by OCWhale »

I wear a Rolex Explorer 14270 that I bought used for $4K a few years ago when I was in my mid-20s to commemorate an eventful year from a career perspective.

I love it - great heritage and design, can dress it up or down, great conversation piece. I'd never sell it because of what it means to me, but pretty sure it's value will hold up well too, have seen some folks selling them for $4.5K+.

I have a Swatch and Timex that I wear when doing work around the house, going for a run, etc.
OCWhale
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:59 am

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by OCWhale »

atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:33 am This is my first post in this novel thread, and think the amount you pay over maybe, $500, is just for added bling. As in, a $1,000 watch has the same guts as a $10,000 watch and it's the diamonds and precious metals added to the outside are what make the price go up.
If you're looking at watches from a purely functional perspective, I'd go even further than that.

You can technically buy an Orient mechanical watch for ~$100 that functionally is similar to a $10K Jaeger LeCoultre - however it's the brand/heritage/artistry/design that you can't really quantify in dollars and cents that result in the premium. Is there an actual difference between 316L steel on a Rolex sports watch vs. a Shinola watch? Not really, but people who care about watches care about this kind of thing.
Independent George
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 pm
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Independent George »

atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:33 am This is my first post in this novel thread, and think the amount you pay over maybe, $500, is just for added bling. As in, a $1,000 watch has the same guts as a $10,000 watch and it's the diamonds and precious metals added to the outside are what make the price go up.
This is a bit of a misunderstanding of what watch enthusiasts look for. Brand prestige is a thing, but there is a substance to where that prestige comes from besides just snob appeal. Just as you can have an incredible BMW driven by someone who knows nothing of the vehicle besides the logo, you also have watch buyers who only want a Rolex because it's expensive. Nevertheless, there is a lot going on under the hood besides the name on the front.

Most luxury watch cases are made of 316L steel (or Rolex's proprietary 'Oyster steel', whose material properties has been much debated in watch circles), and is about the least expensive part of the construction. Grand Seiko and Citizen make a fair number of titanium cases. The point is, the presence or absence of precious metals has very little bearing on the cost of the watch. What you are mostly paying for is (1) the watch movement, (2) aesthetics, and (3) fit & finish.

Watches in the $500 - $3,000 range usually have a mass produced movement - most commonly an ETA 2824 or 2892, Sellita SW-200 or SW-300 (which are clones of the ETA movements, as the patent expired in the 80s), or a Miyota 9015. The standard variants are all roughly equivalent movements, but the ETA and Sellita movements each come in four different grades based on accuracy. The more expensive watches in this range are rarely stock movements - they will usually be modified by the particular manufacturer. Modifications can mean decorations of the movement, adjustments to increase accuracy or power reserve, shock or magnetic resistance, etc. These modifications are almost always done by hand by skilled labor - it's made in an assembly line, but the tolerances of a mechanical watch movement are such that individual attention is required for high end watches. For example, if you decide to replace the standard steel mainspring of a stock movement with a silicon spring (a common modification to increase the magnetic resistance of the watch), this will completely throw off the timing of the original movement. Variance in the manufacture of individual components means the movement will require trial & error replacement of different gears and springs to retain the accuracy specification - when a watch beats 28,800 times per hour, getting it to +6/-4 seconds per day in five different positions (the COSC standard for a certified chronometer) requires a lot of fiddling. Usually, the modification will be done by the movement manufacturer according to the client's specifications, but some of the higher-end brands will make the changes themselves (which blurs the distinction as to whose movement it actually is). I've toyed with (and broken) a few inexpensive Seiko 7S26 movements for practice, and I can tell you even the smallest changes on a cheap movement is no joke.

Luxury watches (broadly defined) almost always have in-house movements developed and manufactured by that particular watchmaker, and usually (though not always) to higher specifications than the highest grade ETA or Sellita movements. Rolex advertises its 'Superlative Chronometer' standard (+/- 2 second per day in 5 dial positions), which is genuinely exceptional for a mechanical movement. I'm actually not the biggest fan of Rolex watches, but I have enormous respect for the craftsmanship involved in their movements. The truly crazy expensive luxury watches typically have insane complications to them like a perpetual calendar. They are literally analog computers, finished to breathtaking degree.

Anyway, that was a long ramble, but the point is that there is a lot that goes into a watch beyond "It's gold so it must be valuable". I understand that a great many people who buy expensive watches think the exact same thing. I just want to make the point that a great many of us care a great deal about the ridiculous feats of engineering that goes into a watch (and that includes quartz - I am personally very interested in high-accuracy quartz watches from Citizen and Grand Seiko). The high end watches are a combination of mechanical brilliance and beautiful artwork which I find incredibly appealing. Yes, they are luxury goods with much more practical counterparts in the exact same way a Ford GTO is a worse car than a Fiesta. I love them anyway, for mostly the exact same reasons. And I am perfectly comfortable saving money to buy what I want without damaging my financial future.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 am My $55 Casio digital is all I want in a watch.
That is a waste of money.
Don't you have a phone? Why would you wear a watch like that?
bowtie
Posts: 375
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:41 am

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by bowtie »

Because some people LIKE to wear a watch, even an inexpensive one.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

bowtie wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:27 pm Because some people LIKE to wear a watch, even an inexpensive one.
Those people would be best equipped to understand the discussions here. But it doesn't seem to be the case.
In my opinion a 50$ watch is a downgrade from no watch. No point in wearing it. Why would I put on my wrist an ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals? It provides no functionality for most people, there is devices keeping time in the car, on the computer, on the phone etc. So what is the point?
User avatar
GoldenOne
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by GoldenOne »

Independent George wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:34 pm
atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:33 am This is my first post in this novel thread, and think the amount you pay over maybe, $500, is just for added bling. As in, a $1,000 watch has the same guts as a $10,000 watch and it's the diamonds and precious metals added to the outside are what make the price go up.
This is a bit of a misunderstanding of what watch enthusiasts look for. Brand prestige is a thing, but there is a substance to where that prestige comes from besides just snob appeal. Just as you can have an incredible BMW driven by someone who knows nothing of the vehicle besides the logo, you also have watch buyers who only want a Rolex because it's expensive. Nevertheless, there is a lot going on under the hood besides the name on the front.

Most luxury watch cases are made of 316L steel (or Rolex's proprietary 'Oyster steel', whose material properties has been much debated in watch circles), and is about the least expensive part of the construction. Grand Seiko and Citizen make a fair number of titanium cases. The point is, the presence or absence of precious metals has very little bearing on the cost of the watch. What you are mostly paying for is (1) the watch movement, (2) aesthetics, and (3) fit & finish.
While there may be something to be said about "in house" manufacturer and it is one the reasons why I bought a bmw -a real luxury car maker--instead of say a lexus --which to me is glorified toyota camry. It doesn't cost 20X the price. Heck you can buy my bmw for the same price as rolex explorer that I had my eye on. It's too expensive. I offered them 2000 on bob's watches. I figured it cost rolex 1100 to make so they get double the money. Fair no?

I had another gucci watch I bought on eBay. I originally bought it in 2000 when i graduated college. I recently had it overhauled for 150 bucks. I bet they put some chinese movement in it. What do I care for 150 bucks? It works and it looks nice with the gold and stainless case. Recently on a date the girl was like "I like your watch, is that a rolex?" LOL! I was like no "it's a gucci".lol!

That is just the thing, I can get in my bimmer and go 0-60 in under 5 seconds. You can't do that in no hyundai. Heck I can drive that car on a track and earn respect. It's got twin turbo and amazing balance and handling that I realized from the minute I drove it. And here is the difference with rolex and bmw: There's a guy at work that wears a "nice watch". To this day I do not know if he wears an invicta or a rolex. It's stainless case with gold trim --like my gucci --all the same ...why di I care one is a "in house" movement while the other a chinese one quartz ? I don't care enough to spend 9000 on a rolex explorer. The fact anyone else does is mind boggling to me. They are either really rich, really into keeping up with the joneses or really BORING. I can't help but think they're some guys in their reebok high tops, honda civics spending all their money to look at th little wheels on a rolex. If you had the model girlfriend , a ferari and a penthouse than it might make some sense to me.
atikovi
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by atikovi »

Independent George wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:34 pmRolex advertises its 'Superlative Chronometer' standard (+/- 2 second per day in 5 dial positions), which is genuinely exceptional for a mechanical movement.
So these high end watches are more like a piece of art you can wear, but mechanical stuff wears out or needs periodic cleaning and adjustment. My Casio will still be working in 1,000 years without any maintenance excluding batteries (although solar powered models are available too) and with the automatic time adjustment is accurate to +/- 2 second per YEAR.
atikovi
Posts: 1020
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:20 pm
Location: Suburban Washington DC

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by atikovi »

Starfish wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:42 pm
atikovi wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 am My $55 Casio digital is all I want in a watch.
That is a waste of money.
Don't you have a phone? Why would you wear a watch like that?
I do have a phone but don't have it with me all the time, plus I don't want to pull it out of my pants pocket with one hand, then turn it on with the other, just to check the time when I can just glance at my wrist.
User avatar
Bylo Selhi
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: www.bylo.org in the Great White North
Contact:

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:26 am Those people would be best equipped to understand the discussions here. But it doesn't seem to be the case.
In my opinion a 50$ watch is a downgrade from no watch. No point in wearing it. Why would I put on my wrist an ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals? It provides no functionality for most people, there is devices keeping time in the car, on the computer, on the phone etc. So what is the point?
IMO for utilitarian devices such as a wrist watch, function trumps form.

Here's my ~$50 "ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals".

What, other than tell time imprecisely, can a $5,000+ Rolex(*) do that my Bip can't do? Why should I spend 100x as much for a functionally inferior product?

That said, you'll get no argument from me that this principle doesn't apply to a work of art such a piece of jewelry.

(*) My other watch is a ~50 year old Rolex Oyster Perpetual that I bought new in Zürich back in 1968 for ~$50 [actually $100 IIRC.] It's been sitting in a drawer for many years in large part because it would cost several Bips just to clean and lubricate.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

Bylo Selhi wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 am
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:26 am Those people would be best equipped to understand the discussions here. But it doesn't seem to be the case.
In my opinion a 50$ watch is a downgrade from no watch. No point in wearing it. Why would I put on my wrist an ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals? It provides no functionality for most people, there is devices keeping time in the car, on the computer, on the phone etc. So what is the point?
IMO for utilitarian devices such as a wrist watch, function trumps form.

Here's my ~$50 "ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals".

What, other than tell time imprecisely, can a $5,000+ Rolex(*) do that my Bip can't do? Why should I spend 100x as much for a functionally inferior product?

That said, you'll get no argument from me that this principle doesn't apply to a work of art such a piece of jewelry.

(*) My other watch is a ~50 year old Rolex Oyster Perpetual that I bought new in Zürich back in 1968 for ~$50 [actually $100 IIRC.] It's been sitting in a drawer for many years in large part because it would cost several Bips just to clean and lubricate.
I am not sure why is hard to understand for some people that aesthetics and form is very important and a completely different topic than functionality. IMHO for a watch the only value is in aesthetics, because I personally find no value in its function (even smart watches are completely useless for me).

Some people buy jewelry or nice clothes and find value in beauty, craftsmanship, status etc. Others don't but. But why feel obligated to come on this topic then?
It's the same problem in the car threads: regardless of what you ask there always a camry/corolla recommendation.
User avatar
StormShadow
Posts: 966
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by StormShadow »

Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:14 pm Some people buy jewelry or nice clothes and find value in beauty, craftsmanship, status etc. Others don't but. But why feel obligated to come on this topic then?
It's the same problem in the car threads: regardless of what you ask there always a camry/corolla recommendation.
Funny. I own a Camry and a BMW. Not to mention a Timex and a Rolex. No regrets. :beer
EnjoyIt
Posts: 4977
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:06 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by EnjoyIt »

Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:14 pm
Bylo Selhi wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 am
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:26 am Those people would be best equipped to understand the discussions here. But it doesn't seem to be the case.
In my opinion a 50$ watch is a downgrade from no watch. No point in wearing it. Why would I put on my wrist an ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals? It provides no functionality for most people, there is devices keeping time in the car, on the computer, on the phone etc. So what is the point?
IMO for utilitarian devices such as a wrist watch, function trumps form.

Here's my ~$50 "ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals".

What, other than tell time imprecisely, can a $5,000+ Rolex(*) do that my Bip can't do? Why should I spend 100x as much for a functionally inferior product?

That said, you'll get no argument from me that this principle doesn't apply to a work of art such a piece of jewelry.

(*) My other watch is a ~50 year old Rolex Oyster Perpetual that I bought new in Zürich back in 1968 for ~$50 [actually $100 IIRC.] It's been sitting in a drawer for many years in large part because it would cost several Bips just to clean and lubricate.
I am not sure why is hard to understand for some people that aesthetics and form is very important and a completely different topic than functionality. IMHO for a watch the only value is in aesthetics, because I personally find no value in its function (even smart watches are completely useless for me).

Some people buy jewelry or nice clothes and find value in beauty, craftsmanship, status etc. Others don't but. But why feel obligated to come on this topic then?
It's the same problem in the car threads: regardless of what you ask there always a camry/corolla recommendation.
I'm not to keen on spending money on "status." Personally, for me, I believe that is a fools errand because no one but oneself should care about what kind of watch they have. Buy it because it makes you happy, not to show off one has the "status" to have such an expensive thing.

In a similar fashion, I own an expensive sports car (not supercar but expensive enough.) I bought the car for me. I do not wash it regularly because washing it is a waste of my time. Once every year or so I will wash and wax to protect the paint. I keep the insides very clean. Why, because I drive the car on the inside and don't give a damn what others think about me or my car. I also take it to the race track and make good use of the car is designed to do. I get joy from the function and not its athletics or the perceived status symbol it may bestow on me. Life is way too good for us to worry about what others think or to spend my money to get others to think a certain way.

In my personal opinion, status symbol is by far the worst reason to buy a watch especially when some of the really expensive watches would only be appreciated by another horologist. Get it because it makes you happy wearing a piece of art or fine jewelry, get it for yourself and not for others.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
RomeoMustDie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:07 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by RomeoMustDie »

Bylo Selhi wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 am
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:26 am Those people would be best equipped to understand the discussions here. But it doesn't seem to be the case.
In my opinion a 50$ watch is a downgrade from no watch. No point in wearing it. Why would I put on my wrist an ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals? It provides no functionality for most people, there is devices keeping time in the car, on the computer, on the phone etc. So what is the point?
IMO for utilitarian devices such as a wrist watch, function trumps form.

Here's my ~$50 "ugly chunk of rubber, plastic and cheap low quality metals".

What, other than tell time imprecisely, can a $5,000+ Rolex(*) do that my Bip can't do? Why should I spend 100x as much for a functionally inferior product?

That said, you'll get no argument from me that this principle doesn't apply to a work of art such a piece of jewelry.

(*) My other watch is a ~50 year old Rolex Oyster Perpetual that I bought new in Zürich back in 1968 for ~$50 [actually $100 IIRC.] It's been sitting in a drawer for many years in large part because it would cost several Bips just to clean and lubricate.
Do you not carry a cell phone?
z91
Posts: 523
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:19 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by z91 »

I don't understand what "non-watch" people are trying to do here. There is no way you are going to convince someone that loves watches for what they are, to buy a gaudy designer watch instead. There are a lot of things one can appreciate with a watch, and if you are just looking to tell time, buy whatever is fashionable for you, or not. It's a very personal thing.

I personally am into watches and fully understand I could buy a designer watch for a fraction of the price of a Rolex or not buy a watch at all, but I buy Rolexes anyway because that's what I want to spend my money on. It's clearly an unnecessary item with the time being available everywhere, but I personally enjoy seeing very specific details on watches such as how sharply cut the dial hands are, or how accurate the watch is, given it's fully mechanical in nature.

Again, if you just want to tell the time, just use your phone or whatever else you already have on you. If you don't understand why people are into expensive watches, then you're clearly not the market for it.
User avatar
Bylo Selhi
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: www.bylo.org in the Great White North
Contact:

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:14 pmI am not sure why is hard to understand for some people that aesthetics and form is very important and a completely different topic than functionality.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for some people to understand that function is more important than form in a utilitarian object, be it a time piece or a motor vehicle. No matter how well designed and manufactured it may be, not matter how good it looks, if it doesn't do what it's intended to do then it's useless.
IMHO for a watch the only value is in aesthetics, because I personally find no value in its function (even smart watches are completely useless for me).
IMNSHO for a watch the only value is its ability to tell time accurately. If I want aesthetics then I'll buy a piece of jewelry. It might be watch, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a watch.
User avatar
Bylo Selhi
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: www.bylo.org in the Great White North
Contact:

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

RomeoMustDie wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:42 pmDo you not carry a cell phone?
I do. But not everywhere I go 24x7. Moreover I have to pull a smartphone out of my pocket, touch a finger on the reader and then wait for it to display the time.

With a watch I just glance at my wrist.

I'll let you decide which is easier and more convenient.

P.S. I have to recharge my smartphone daily lest it stop working. My smartwatch lasts well over a month on a charge. (It's currently at 40% charge after 26 days.)
mak1277
Posts: 1619
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by mak1277 »

Bylo Selhi wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:35 pm
Starfish wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:14 pmI am not sure why is hard to understand for some people that aesthetics and form is very important and a completely different topic than functionality.
I'm not sure why it's so hard for some people to understand that function is more important than form in a utilitarian object, be it a time piece or a motor vehicle. No matter how well designed and manufactured it may be, not matter how good it looks, if it doesn't do what it's intended to do then it's useless.
IMHO for a watch the only value is in aesthetics, because I personally find no value in its function (even smart watches are completely useless for me).
IMNSHO for a watch the only value is its ability to tell time accurately. If I want aesthetics then I'll buy a piece of jewelry. It might be watch, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a watch.
A Rolex tells time plenty accurately for any normal person's use. The only time I need to reset mine is when the clocks change. Otherwise it's always within one minute of reference time, which is fine by me.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

Bylo Selhi wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:35 pm
IMHO for a watch the only value is in aesthetics, because I personally find no value in its function (even smart watches are completely useless for me).
IMNSHO for a watch the only value is its ability to tell time accurately.
More answers, more confusion.
1. You looked at the subject line, I assume. You know that you can find a very precise watch for 5, 10% of the number in the subject. So you understand the discussion is not about functionality. Then why are you here? do you also make accounts on the crocheting forums to inform them that you don't care and buy only factory made sweaters?
2. It's second time I read on this page about how people wear watches to tell time. I just don't get it. Between phone, car, computer, laptop, radio etc why would I need another device (uncomfortably tied to my wrist) to tell me the time?

Between a cheap watch a an expensive watch the truly useless one is the cheap one.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 10774
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by ResearchMed »

z91 wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:52 pm I don't understand what "non-watch" people are trying to do here. There is no way you are going to convince someone that loves watches for what they are, to buy a gaudy designer watch instead. There are a lot of things one can appreciate with a watch, and if you are just looking to tell time, buy whatever is fashionable for you, or not. It's a very personal thing.

I personally am into watches and fully understand I could buy a designer watch for a fraction of the price of a Rolex or not buy a watch at all, but I buy Rolexes anyway because that's what I want to spend my money on. It's clearly an unnecessary item with the time being available everywhere, but I personally enjoy seeing very specific details on watches such as how sharply cut the dial hands are, or how accurate the watch is, given it's fully mechanical in nature.

Again, if you just want to tell the time, just use your phone or whatever else you already have on you. If you don't understand why people are into expensive watches, then you're clearly not the market for it.
[emphasis added]

Right.

There are uncountable "things" where personal preferences differ from person to person.

If someone here posted a question about buying a motorcycle, would any/so many others pounce the same way (as with watches or other jewelry - or any "special purchase")?

I cannot fathom even the idea of riding a motorcycle. To me, it's just dangerous and uncomfortable.
Plus, it would probably mess up my long hair! :twisted:

But as the above post concludes, I am CLEARLY *NOT* THE MARKET for motorcycles. So I would just take a pass on almost any question about "which motorcycles", and definitely about "whether motorcycles".

Importantly, I would certainly not pass judgement about whether or not it would be a wise purchase, UNLESS the issue was simply "can I afford this, even though I don't need it", and it is truly obvious that the poster would be in [more] dire straits financially if they made such a purchase.
But ditto for a question about home purchase or apartment rent amounts, and no one is arguing, I assume, that someone posting here can easily do without owning or renting a home. It would be a financial assessment, and NOT anything like, "Why in the world do you want a place to sleep that has a roof, heat, and plumbing!???"

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Starfish
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:33 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by Starfish »

EnjoyIt wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:24 pm I'm not to keen on spending money on "status."
Neither am I.
But my principle is to maximize happiness per $ spent, because I have a limited amount of $.
I understand that some people are happy when they receive other people's admiration. A while ago I thought this is kind of lame but then I realized that if everybody was like us and did not wash their cars the world would be much uglier. They will be no nice architecture, no beautiful people, no nicely dressed people, more obesity etc.
I hope more people cared about what other people think about them.
If people are happy when admired, a watch is a very good investment as a perpetual source of happiness.

It's exactly like a nice car. Maybe you get the happiness from driving, maybe you get the happiness from the glances of others. It could still be a much wiser acquisition than a Camry, because it generates happiness.
latesaver
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:35 pm

Re: Best watch for around $5,000?

Post by latesaver »

Like many other posts on here, this is anecdotal. BUT, in 2010 I was part of a small team that closed a large investment commitment with a fund manager. We committed to invest $300mm with one specific manager.

when the deal closed, 5 of us on the deal team received "Kermit green" submariner Rolex watches. i would never buy anything like that for myself, but it was one of the coolest gifts i've ever gotten.

i get compliments on it all the time and it's significantly appreciated in value since i received it. From what i can tell it sold for $10K when i received it and today i could sell it for $15K.

i will never sell it, and some day i will give it to one of my sons.
Locked