New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

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Gardner's Son
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New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by Gardner's Son » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm

Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?

strafe
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by strafe » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:04 pm

Depreciation on Honda & Toyota is so low that it often doesn’t make sense to buy used. I would buy the new one.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by KyleAAA » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:05 pm

I think the CRV got a lot more attractive with the 2017 redesign. I think the interior got a significant improvement, although the infotainment system is still horrible. It has slightly more cargo space and slightly more rear legroom. I'd be wary of buying the first year of a redesign, though, so either a lightly used 2018 or a new one would be my pick.

jasg
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by jasg » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:16 pm

Make sure you consider this problem, From other articles, I'm not sure Honda is even going to fix it.

https://www.cars.com/articles/fix-comin ... 703180990/

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Raymond
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by Raymond » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:17 pm

strafe wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:04 pm
Depreciation on Honda & Toyota is so low that it often doesn’t make sense to buy used. I would buy the new one.
Agreed.

OP might also consider getting the 2019 LX trim level, particularly if he lives in a cold area, as it has the non-turbo 2.4 liter engine.

The higher trim levels have the turbo 1.5 liter engine, which has been associated with gasoline leaking into the oil system:

"Honda Delays CR-V Engine Fix but Details Rollout Plans" - consumerreports.org

Honda states they're fixing the 2019 1.5L engines before they are sold, but you never know...

My wife and I bought a 2018 CR-V LX last year - no problems with gasoline smells in the oil, high dipstick readings, stalling or cabin heater issues.
Last edited by Raymond on Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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fittan
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by fittan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:21 pm

I really really like the redesigned CRV. Looks nice and good bang of buck for the technology. However I would never buy it because of the oil dilution problem due to the new turbo engine. If you haven't heard about it, basically it is gas that seeps into engine oil. No, it is not normal despite what honda will tell you. The thing is that when I buy a honda or toyota, I plan to keep it for many years. The problem may not show up now but I don't want to deal with potential problem 5 to 10 years later.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by fittan » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:26 pm

Raymond wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:17 pm
strafe wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:04 pm
Depreciation on Honda & Toyota is so low that it often doesn’t make sense to buy used. I would buy the new one.
Agreed.

OP might also consider getting the 2019 LX trim level, particularly if he lives in a cold area, as it has the non-turbo 2.4 liter engine.

The higher trim levels have the turbo 1.5 liter engine, which has been associated with gasoline leaking into the oil system:

"Honda Delays CR-V Engine Fix but Details Rollout Plans" - consumerreports.org

Honda states they're fixing the 2019 1.5L engines before they are sold, but you never know...

My wife and I bought a 2018 CR-V LX last year - no problems with gasoline smells in the oil, high dipstick readings, stalling or cabin heater problems.
True the LX comes with the non turbo but do note that it does not come with all the Advanced safety features like front collision sending and emergency braking.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by munemaker » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:30 pm

Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
If you have not heard of the oil dilution problems with the turbo engines, you must not be paying attention.

I would normally be buying one later this year, but am opting for the Mazda CX-5 instead.

(Yes, I know you can buy the lower end CR*V without the turbo, but I don't want a stripped down version.)

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by susa » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:36 pm


researcher
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by researcher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:41 pm

Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL.
As others have mentioned, given the ongoing issues related to oil dilution / fuel smell / lack of heat, you should not be considering the CR-V.

There are simply too many really good alternatives in this category to take a chance on the CR-V.

The Mazda CX-5 would be my first choice, followed by the Hyundai/Kia offerings.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:59 pm

There are two issues with the CRV. One is the fact of gas in the oil of some engines. The second is Honda's unwillingness to be transparent about the problem.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by KyleAAA » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:59 pm

Honda claims to have fixed the oil issue in the 2019 model, fwiw. But yeah, the non-turbo LX version is probably a better value anyway.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:56 pm

Sorry to revive an old thread but I figured it's still 2019 and we're in the market for a CR-V.

How has the experience been for the OP or anybody else for that matter? Thanks in advance!

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smectym » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:18 pm

The new variable that has been introduced in recent years that weighs on the decision of used vs. new is the rapid rollout of new safety technology. Some of that technology is actually pretty impressive. Not just bills and whistles or “safety theater” but actual improvements in the safety of the vehicles. So that could factor in to the determination to just go ahead and buy the new one if the slightly older model lacks important new safety tech.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by anoop » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:48 pm

smectym wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:18 pm
The new variable that has been introduced in recent years that weighs on the decision of used vs. new is the rapid rollout of new safety technology. Some of that technology is actually pretty impressive. Not just bills and whistles or “safety theater” but actual improvements in the safety of the vehicles. So that could factor in to the determination to just go ahead and buy the new one if the slightly older model lacks important new safety tech.
The only 2 safety things I have found useful are rear camera and forward collision alert/mitigation. The rest--blind spot detection, cross traffic detection, parking sensors, lane keeping assist, adaptive cruise control--are all gizmos in my opinion. But having them solves the problem of being without them.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by lazydavid » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:45 am

Get pretty much anything else in that class other than a CR-V. Mazda CX-5 and Toyota RAV4 would be great choices.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:58 am

lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:45 am
Get pretty much anything else in that class other than a CR-V. Mazda CX-5 and Toyota RAV4 would be great choices.
Is this due to the above mentioned oil dilution issue? Is everyone driving with this problem without it getting fixed?

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by lazydavid » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:53 am

simplesimon wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:58 am
lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:45 am
Get pretty much anything else in that class other than a CR-V. Mazda CX-5 and Toyota RAV4 would be great choices.
Is this due to the above mentioned oil dilution issue? Is everyone driving with this problem without it getting fixed?
Yes, and yes. Because there is no fix. Honda's solution is to extend the warranty on three engine components (camshaft, rocker-arms, and sparkplugs) to six years. And it took them three years to even do that.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:02 am

Is there any news on the 2020 model year CRVs? Is it still using that same problematic engine as the 2017, 2018, and 2019 model years?

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:40 am

lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:53 am
simplesimon wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:58 am
lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:45 am
Get pretty much anything else in that class other than a CR-V. Mazda CX-5 and Toyota RAV4 would be great choices.
Is this due to the above mentioned oil dilution issue? Is everyone driving with this problem without it getting fixed?
Yes, and yes. Because there is no fix. Honda's solution is to extend the warranty on three engine components (camshaft, rocker-arms, and sparkplugs) to six years. And it took them three years to even do that.
"Because there is no fix."
Have you heard of any failures due to this issue?

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by lazydavid » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:52 am

smitcat wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:40 am
"Because there is no fix."
Have you heard of any failures due to this issue?
This one:

Image

But in general, this is a long-term wear issue due to the reduction in lubricity of the oil caused by mixing it with a solvent. You wouldn't in general expect engines to start grenading themselves in 20k miles, though that's certainly a remote possibility. One day it will just start making grinding noises, and at that point it will already be too late.

If you are leasing, probably not the end of the world other than the gasoline smell in the cabin and the need for frequent oil changes. Damage will show up later and is the next owner's problem. But most BHs tend to keep their cars a bit longer than 3 years.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:57 am

According to this article:

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/honda-c ... uld-do-now

"If you have purchased a 2019 Honda Civic or CR-V all 2019’ models are being updated at the factory."

I'm not sure what this includes.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by hightower » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:04 am

Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?

It always makes more sense to buy a used Honda. Their used warranty is a lot better than their new warranty, plus you save a few thousand or more. Let someone else take the hit on buying new AND get a much better warranty. Why wouldn't you buy used?

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:05 am

lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:52 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:40 am
"Because there is no fix."
Have you heard of any failures due to this issue?
This one:

Image

But in general, this is a long-term wear issue due to the reduction in lubricity of the oil caused by mixing it with a solvent. You wouldn't in general expect engines to start grenading themselves in 20k miles, though that's certainly a remote possibility. One day it will just start making grinding noises, and at that point it will already be too late.

If you are leasing, probably not the end of the world other than the gasoline smell in the cabin and the need for frequent oil changes. Damage will show up later and is the next owner's problem. But most BHs tend to keep their cars a bit longer than 3 years.

No , I do not mean a link to someone on the internet that posts a failure - I mean do you know someone who has one of these and has a problem?
We know of many folks with these engines both in our family (niece) and through our local high throughput mechanics shop.
Our nieces Civic with the 1.5 turbo shows some oil dilution at each lube change - at about 55K miles now.
She has no issues whatsoever - neither does any of our mechanics clients as he works on many of these locally.
In addition there are a number of posters who worried about this issue so much that they had numerous oil tests performed on their 1.5T engines.
So far in each and every case those outside oil tests have shown no wear indicators and no indication of premature oil additive degradation.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:09 am

lazydavid wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:52 am
smitcat wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:40 am
"Because there is no fix."
Have you heard of any failures due to this issue?
This one:

Image

But in general, this is a long-term wear issue due to the reduction in lubricity of the oil caused by mixing it with a solvent. You wouldn't in general expect engines to start grenading themselves in 20k miles, though that's certainly a remote possibility. One day it will just start making grinding noises, and at that point it will already be too late.

If you are leasing, probably not the end of the world other than the gasoline smell in the cabin and the need for frequent oil changes. Damage will show up later and is the next owner's problem. But most BHs tend to keep their cars a bit longer than 3 years.
Lazy David - on the picture posted, are you and/or someone else claiming that all that rust on the camshaft and the valve springs is due to oil dilution?

prd1982
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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by prd1982 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:54 am

I would vote for the redesigned CRV , EX and above. That would be 2017 with the Turbo, or above. Quieter, safer, better handling, better cargo space. The safety and convenience like forward collision warning, blind-side alert and adaptive cruise control were worth it to us.

As to the oil dilution issue, some folks on this forum think Honda has not fixed it. Personally, I trust Honda to do the right thing if large # of people start having failures. Note that last I looked, Edmunds and CR think highly of the CRV.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by mrmass » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:21 am

Well I'm looking to "upgrade" from a 2006 CRV LX to a 2014. 2014 was the last year of the "real" tranny. After 2014 was rubber band tranny. I want to let that shake out for a few more years. I want to see/hear from someone with over 100K on a CVT.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:54 am

mrmass wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:21 am
Well I'm looking to "upgrade" from a 2006 CRV LX to a 2014. 2014 was the last year of the "real" tranny. After 2014 was rubber band tranny. I want to let that shake out for a few more years. I want to see/hear from someone with over 100K on a CVT.
We own a 2006 CRV and a 2009 CRV and a 2014 CRV at this time.
The 2014 CRV just rolled over 50K miles with no issues - it does not have the turbo engine in it. We are very happy with all the CRV's but the 2014 has substantial updates over the others.
FWIW - we just bought a Mazda CX-5 last week, only about 400 miles driven so far.c

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by researcher » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:03 am

hightower wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:04 am
It always makes more sense to buy a used Honda. Their used warranty is a lot better than their new warranty, plus you save a few thousand or more. Let someone else take the hit on buying new AND get a much better warranty. Why wouldn't you buy used?
This information is incorrect.

A used car does NOT have a better warranty, unless it happens to be sold as a Honda Certified Pre-Owned vehicle.
You pay a premium for the Honda Certified vehicle, which is really nothing more than buying a manufacturer extended warranty.

You might "save a few thousand" on a Certified used car, but you are ignoring other key factors.
Say you keep your vehicles until they reach 150K, then buy another one...
- New Car: $28,000, 0 miles on odometer, 150K usable miles = $0.19/mile
- Used Car: $25,000, 35000 miles on odometer, 115K usable miles = $0.22/mile.

As shown above, new cars are often a better value than used cars.
In addition, you get a car not driven/abused by someone else, zero wear on tires/brakes/ect, can sell it as a '1-owner car", ect.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:13 am

I'm leaning towards the CRV because of its extra space. It doesn't look like there's enough data about the oil dilution issue for 2019 model years yet. We'll test drive the Mazda and Toyota next weekend.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:16 am

simplesimon wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:13 am
I'm leaning towards the CRV because of its extra space. It doesn't look like there's enough data about the oil dilution issue for 2019 model years yet. We'll test drive the Mazda and Toyota next weekend.
The Mazda CX-5 does have less space in back then the CRV. That was not an issue for us but might be for someone else.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:20 am

researcher wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:03 am
hightower wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:04 am
It always makes more sense to buy a used Honda. Their used warranty is a lot better than their new warranty, plus you save a few thousand or more. Let someone else take the hit on buying new AND get a much better warranty. Why wouldn't you buy used?
This information is incorrect.

A used car does NOT have a better warranty, unless it happens to be sold as a Honda Certified Pre-Owned vehicle.
You pay a premium for the Honda Certified vehicle, which is really nothing more than buying a manufacturer extended warranty.

You might "save a few thousand" on a Certified used car, but you are ignoring other key factors.
Say you keep your vehicles until they reach 150K, then buy another one...
- New Car: $28,000, 0 miles on odometer, 150K usable miles = $0.19/mile
- Used Car: $25,000, 35000 miles on odometer, 115K usable miles = $0.22/mile.

As shown above, new cars are often a better value than used cars.
In addition, you get a car not driven/abused by someone else, zero wear on tires/brakes/ect, can sell it as a '1-owner car", ect.

FWIW - apparently there are now 2 different Honda CPO warrantees - the CPO and CPO +....
https://www.hondacertified.com/certifie ... d-benefits

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by surfstar » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am

2019 Forester or 2020 Outback should also be considered. Those are both redesigned models and have caught up on tech/interior sides, from the reviews I've read.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by jimmo » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 pm

researcher wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:03 am
hightower wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:04 am
It always makes more sense to buy a used Honda. Their used warranty is a lot better than their new warranty, plus you save a few thousand or more. Let someone else take the hit on buying new AND get a much better warranty. Why wouldn't you buy used?
This information is incorrect.

A used car does NOT have a better warranty, unless it happens to be sold as a Honda Certified Pre-Owned vehicle.
You pay a premium for the Honda Certified vehicle, which is really nothing more than buying a manufacturer extended warranty.

You might "save a few thousand" on a Certified used car, but you are ignoring other key factors.
Say you keep your vehicles until they reach 150K, then buy another one...
- New Car: $28,000, 0 miles on odometer, 150K usable miles = $0.19/mile
- Used Car: $25,000, 35000 miles on odometer, 115K usable miles = $0.22/mile.

As shown above, new cars are often a better value than used cars.
In addition, you get a car not driven/abused by someone else, zero wear on tires/brakes/ect, can sell it as a '1-owner car", ect.
Well it works in your example but not so in reality. Show me a used car with 35K miles that only loses $3k in value from brand new price. I buy 3 year old vehicles coming off lease in the 30,000 miles range and the savings average around $8k off new.

The first 30K miles on a vehicle are the most expensive miles. It's how the depreciation curve works.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by researcher » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:13 pm

jimmo wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 pm
Well it works in your example but not so in reality. Show me a used car with 35K miles that only loses $3k in value from brand new price. I buy 3 year old vehicles coming off lease in the 30,000 miles range and the savings average around $8k off new.

The first 30K miles on a vehicle are the most expensive miles. It's how the depreciation curve works.
You appear to be glossing over several factors:
- What make/model of 3 year old vehicles are you buying? Depreciation of a Honda SUV is different than, say, vehicles from the 'Big 3' or European luxury makes.
- Are these used vehicles Certified Pre-Owned Hondas? Certified Hondas, with their extended warranties, come at a substantial price premium over an identical non-certified vehicle.
- When you claim to be saving "8K off new", what are you using as the new car price? Hopefully not MSRP, as that number is meaningless. No way you're saving $8K on Certified Pre-owned vs. an intelligently negotiated new CR-V ($3K-$5K off MSRP, depending on trim level).

But regardless of everything mentioned above, my example still holds, well beyond a $3K difference...
- Used Car: $25,000, 35,000 miles on odometer, 115K usable miles = $0.217391/mile.
- New Car: 0 miles on odometer, 150K usable miles x $0.217391 = $32,609

So you could spend up to $32,609 for the New Car (or $7,609 more than used), and still be at the same cost/mile!
If the cost is the same, I'd much rather drive a brand new vehicle that I hand-pick with zero miles and no use/abuse.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by Whakamole » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:52 pm

surfstar wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am
2019 Forester or 2020 Outback should also be considered. Those are both redesigned models and have caught up on tech/interior sides, from the reviews I've read.
The Forester is very nice. Excellent car all around.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by tennisplyr » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:31 am

This site might be useful:

www.carcomplaints.com
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:53 am

tennisplyr wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:31 am
This site might be useful:

www.carcomplaints.com
If one assumes that the most people that post about their cars on the internet are the ones that have issues and complain then the 2019 CRV looks like a big improvement over the previous model years. There are many other variables of course but I appreciate the link. Thank you!

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Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by core4portfolio » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am

Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

smitcat
Posts: 4037
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am

core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am
Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Hello Core4 - what problems are you experiencing with your CRV?
Do you have parts failures?
Is your mileage down significantly?
Do you have performance issues?
Please share.

core4portfolio
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by core4portfolio » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:10 am

researcher wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:13 pm
jimmo wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:14 pm
Well it works in your example but not so in reality. Show me a used car with 35K miles that only loses $3k in value from brand new price. I buy 3 year old vehicles coming off lease in the 30,000 miles range and the savings average around $8k off new.

The first 30K miles on a vehicle are the most expensive miles. It's how the depreciation curve works.
You appear to be glossing over several factors:
- What make/model of 3 year old vehicles are you buying? Depreciation of a Honda SUV is different than, say, vehicles from the 'Big 3' or European luxury makes.
- Are these used vehicles Certified Pre-Owned Hondas? Certified Hondas, with their extended warranties, come at a substantial price premium over an identical non-certified vehicle.
- When you claim to be saving "8K off new", what are you using as the new car price? Hopefully not MSRP, as that number is meaningless. No way you're saving $8K on Certified Pre-owned vs. an intelligently negotiated new CR-V ($3K-$5K off MSRP, depending on trim level).

But regardless of everything mentioned above, my example still holds, well beyond a $3K difference...
- Used Car: $25,000, 35,000 miles on odometer, 115K usable miles = $0.217391/mile.
- New Car: 0 miles on odometer, 150K usable miles x $0.217391 = $32,609

So you could spend up to $32,609 for the New Car (or $7,609 more than used), and still be at the same cost/mile!
If the cost is the same, I'd much rather drive a brand new vehicle that I hand-pick with zero miles and no use/abuse.
I really dont understood this calculation until now. My OTD price for new 2018 CRV-EX is 25500 and for 150k miles if CR-V engine runs without dying (due to oil dilution) then my cost is $0.17/ mile. Thanks for sharing this useful calculation.
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

Winston19
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:42 pm

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by Winston19 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:12 am

FYI the 2020 CRV has some updates including for better or worse the LX now has the turbo engine (and the honda sensing safely features).

core4portfolio
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by core4portfolio » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am
Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Hello Core4 - what problems are you experiencing with your CRV?
Do you have parts failures?
Is your mileage down significantly?
Do you have performance issues?
Please share.
Car is at very new state like only 10k miles and no documented issues (i took that to dealer to check oil dilution but they say no such issue.) so far except I dont get heat when climate is cold.
I almost forget this since i have been using A/C all time until now. When winter hits I will recheck Heat again.

1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain.

I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that.
Strong gasoline is coming from dipstick. I couldnt see this in LX models.
Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough.

I would really be happy if my honda continue to run for 150k miles (without engine dying ) which will take around 15 years for me to reach and made my belief about oil dilution as wrong
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

smitcat
Posts: 4037
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am

core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am
Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Hello Core4 - what problems are you experiencing with your CRV?
Do you have parts failures?
Is your mileage down significantly?
Do you have performance issues?
Please share.
Car is at very new state like only 10k miles and no issues so far except I dont get heat when climate is cold.
I almost forget this since i have been using A/C all time until now. When winter hits I will recheck this again.

1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain.

I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that.
Strong gasoline is coming from dipstick. I couldnt see this in LX models.
Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough.

I would really be happy if my honda continue to run for 150k miles (without engine dying ) which will take around 15 years for me to reach and made my belief as wrong about oil dilution
"1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain."

So far your car is perfect.

"I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that."
If you really are concerned have your oil independently analyzed by any of the major vendors - I have seen a few owners do this with the results returning 'no problems'.

"Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough."
If there is an engine problem currently existing you will get accelerated wear indicators on the oil analysis - you will also get a decrease in the TBN number over average readings. If you get no indicators of wear (metals in oil) then the engine is not being 'worn' down. So far these tests in others cars have only supported the fact that their is no excessive wear occurring.
The reason I ask anyone these questions is to try and confirm one case where there is a basis of excessive wear.
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.

User avatar
simplesimon
Posts: 3392
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Location: Boston, MA

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by simplesimon » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:00 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am
Gardner's Son wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:00 pm
Just tossing this out there... My wife and I are looking to purchase a new or used Honda CR-V EXL. The prices for a relatively low mileage used CR-V are about $4,000-5,000 less than a new one. If we buy new, the interest rate is .09%. If we buy a used CR-V would run 4.75%. It seems like a wash to me. Anyone else have thoughts on this...?
Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Hello Core4 - what problems are you experiencing with your CRV?
Do you have parts failures?
Is your mileage down significantly?
Do you have performance issues?
Please share.
Car is at very new state like only 10k miles and no issues so far except I dont get heat when climate is cold.
I almost forget this since i have been using A/C all time until now. When winter hits I will recheck this again.

1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain.

I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that.
Strong gasoline is coming from dipstick. I couldnt see this in LX models.
Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough.

I would really be happy if my honda continue to run for 150k miles (without engine dying ) which will take around 15 years for me to reach and made my belief as wrong about oil dilution
"1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain."

So far your car is perfect.

"I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that."
If you really are concerned have your oil independently analyzed by any of the major vendors - I have seen a few owners do this with the results returning 'no problems'.

"Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough."
If there is an engine problem currently existing you will get accelerated wear indicators on the oil analysis - you will also get a decrease in the TBN number over average readings. If you get no indicators of wear (metals in oil) then the engine is not being 'worn' down. So far these tests in others cars have only supported the fact that their is no excessive wear occurring.
The reason I ask anyone these questions is to try and confirm one case where there is a basis of excessive wear.
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
smitcat why did you go with Mazda after owning CR-V's that performed very well for you?

The smell of gasoline as a symptom of this issue is a concern for me as I would be using the car to drive a baby around.

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:25 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
Please provide a few examples to support your statement.

smitcat
Posts: 4037
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:26 am

simplesimon wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:00 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am
core4portfolio wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:58 am


Big NO for CR-V with turbo engines which is 2017-2020 model from EX and above.
LX is good traditional engine but no honda sensing which is a safety feature

Iam a 2018 CR-V owner, oil dilution comes to light on March month 2018 and I bought on Jan 2018 :(
If engine dies whats use of excellent MPG, vehicle trunk space, style and other parts.. i felt very sad after hearing this and its my first new car before that driving 01' Camry. Almost lost all respect from my end at least.

Go with toyota RAV4 instead of CR-V. I felt CR-V treated customer very badly and never addressed the issue correctly.
Hello Core4 - what problems are you experiencing with your CRV?
Do you have parts failures?
Is your mileage down significantly?
Do you have performance issues?
Please share.
Car is at very new state like only 10k miles and no issues so far except I dont get heat when climate is cold.
I almost forget this since i have been using A/C all time until now. When winter hits I will recheck this again.

1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain.

I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that.
Strong gasoline is coming from dipstick. I couldnt see this in LX models.
Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough.

I would really be happy if my honda continue to run for 150k miles (without engine dying ) which will take around 15 years for me to reach and made my belief as wrong about oil dilution
"1. No parts failure. If that happens within 10k miles of normal condition and mostly highway then I wonder what honda engineering QA team is doing...
2. No mileage down. I get 26 city and upto 37 highway. rarely 40 mph
3. I dont see any drag in performance but iam not an aggressive driver. So i never face this issue.
4. Also, for me seats are comfortable, honda sensing worked very well so far except on rain."

So far your car is perfect.

"I was not an auto expert to open the engine to do analysis otherwise i should be doing that but but I do see that oil when filled at one level, goes beyond that level after few mins of drive and look on that."
If you really are concerned have your oil independently analyzed by any of the major vendors - I have seen a few owners do this with the results returning 'no problems'.

"Honda extended the warranty by additional 1 year but i believe its not enough."
If there is an engine problem currently existing you will get accelerated wear indicators on the oil analysis - you will also get a decrease in the TBN number over average readings. If you get no indicators of wear (metals in oil) then the engine is not being 'worn' down. So far these tests in others cars have only supported the fact that their is no excessive wear occurring.
The reason I ask anyone these questions is to try and confirm one case where there is a basis of excessive wear.
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
smitcat why did you go with Mazda after owning CR-V's that performed very well for you?

The smell of gasoline as a symptom of this issue is a concern for me as I would be using the car to drive a baby around.
"smitcat why did you go with Mazda after owning CR-V's that performed very well for you?"
2 major reasons....
-we believed the Mazda CX-5 to be a better value for the money.
-we no longer required the extra rear space that the CRV had over the Mazda which we needed prior

We also bought a truck this past month instead of a Honda as that suits are needs now more than the previous vehicle (Honda CRV) that we are selling.

"The smell of gasoline as a symptom of this issue is a concern for me as I would be using the car to drive a baby around."
I am guessing that this is a sincere issue with you and I will lend you my thoughts in that same light.
- I was never able to 'smell' this extra gasoline in the oil in my nieces Honda
- I was never even able to reasonably smell this gasoline when I pulled the dipstick out on her Honda and smelled that
- in any and every case we are speaking about ounces (2-10?) of fuel sealed inside the crankcase worst case.
- my concerns for an infant and younger children would be in other areas on a magnitude higher before this one including but not limited to:
best car seat well installed, crash rating of car/truck, choking hazards, child left in idling car, child left in heated car, gas/diesel odors while filling up at station, outgassing of plastics in new cars/trucks, various makeup and beauty products that are sprayed on or dispersed in car.

If you are really concerned about this issue and want a CRV I would suggest you rent one for a week when you have the time and see what you get as far as odors. In my case I cannot state that there has been any problems with the ones that I am familiar with - in our family and with neighbors and friends. IMHO - all cars/trucks have problems and issues, choose wisely and know that there is no vehicle without problems and issues.

smitcat
Posts: 4037
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:28 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:25 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
Please provide a few examples to support your statement.
I owned a pair of Yamaha 4 stroke outboards that displayed a known and significant oil dilution issue for many seasons with no problems.
There are plenty of internet hits on this if you search.
Then I owned a pair of 225 outboards with the same dilution issue, no problems there as well.

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:31 am

smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:28 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:25 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
Please provide a few examples to support your statement.
I owned a pair of Yamaha 4 stroke outboards that displayed a known and significant oil dilution issue for many seasons with no problems.
There are plenty of internet hits on this if you search.
Then I owned a pair of 225 outboards with the same dilution issue, no problems there as well.
Outboards? You want us to take data from outboards and draw conclusions about passenger automobiles?

smitcat
Posts: 4037
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: New Honda CR-V vs. 2-3 Year Old CR-V?

Post by smitcat » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:51 am

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:31 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:28 am
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:25 am
smitcat wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 am
FWIW - this specific Honda oil dilution issue is far from the first engine to see an oil dilution issues over these past years.
Please provide a few examples to support your statement.
I owned a pair of Yamaha 4 stroke outboards that displayed a known and significant oil dilution issue for many seasons with no problems.
There are plenty of internet hits on this if you search.
Then I owned a pair of 225 outboards with the same dilution issue, no problems there as well.
Outboards? You want us to take data from outboards and draw conclusions about passenger automobiles?
The outboards are 4 stroke gasoline engines that displayed a much worse gas dilution issue than in the Honda. They have the same overhead cam and lifter design with similar valves and such and work in a much more difficult environment operating a much higher loads and rpm over more time.
This was my experience - not from an internet site or some other friend.

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