Tesla Model Y

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 54891
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:41 pm

To keep this actionable, the OP and at least one other member are considering the purchase of a Tesla Model Y.

Please refrain from criticizing the company and focus on the vehicle. Rants about Elon Musk are off-topic.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Iridium
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Iridium » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:53 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
Does the VW network you mention use the same electrical interface and quick charging plan as Tesla?

Or are we going to have a Beta vs VHS battle for EV cars???? So you have to drive to the exact matching EV charger for your car???
There is such a battle, but Tesla is not part of it. CHAdeMO came first and is heavily backed by Japanese car companies and their electric utility, but has a bulkier port design. CCS is backed by industry standards bodies, is more convenient (the same port supports the slower but more ubiquitous AC charging), and is mandated by law in the EU, but comes is different non-interchangeable styles and became available after some of the early fast charging networks started getting built. In most of the world, it is pretty clear which way to go and cars are built with the appropriate standard. In the US the battle is still playing out, so most fast chargers not installed by the belligerents support both.

Technically, Tesla probably has the best format, but only they use it. Their cars come with adapters to charge on other formats. Their charging stations will only work with Tesla cars and this represents a competitive advantage.

BTW, China has their own standard, but I do not believe it has gotten any traction outside the country.

btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
Plus from what I read this VW/Porsche Electrify America stuff is still is all view cells and talk at this point. No firm hardware. Plus they are talking about the car to grid technology which is more glue to slow down installing a charger network. So what is really going on besides talk????
They have been breaking down the problem into smaller chunks. There are now dozens of city-wide electrify America programs that have the local elastic utility offering free electric AC chargers (not quick chargers) to apartment owners and employers so that regular commuting is possible without a garage (the user of the charger pays a fee that covers the electricity and cost of maintenance). There has also been a concerted effort to establish quick charging stations along North-South transportation corridors on the West Coast. I am not as familiar with the status of taking that nationally, as Tesla already has.


Summary on topic for the thread: Tesla cars have the best charging infrastructure available to them in the US. The charging situation for their competitors is a mess in the US but gradually improving. It is a big advantage for Tesla; whether it is insurmountable depends on driving patterns and where you are located. There is likely to be more parity in charging infrastructure between Tesla and competitors in EU and Japan.

TravelGeek
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:01 pm

btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
Does the VW network you mention use the same electrical interface and quick charging plan as Tesla?

Or are we going to have a Beta vs VHS battle for EV cars???? So you have to drive to the exact matching EV charger for your car???
As far as I know, Electrify America is planning to have both CHAdeMo and CCS fast chargers at each station.

https://www.electrifyamerica.com/charging-with-us

TravelGeek
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TravelGeek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:10 pm

squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:59 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
It would be for me. Without the network, your EV car is useless for long range. How many people would buy a gas car if they couldn't drive it beyond 200 miles?
We bought an EV that has a range of less than 200 miles, but it is our vehicle for local and regional driving where range is not an issue and we charge it at home for “free” (solar). I know a lot of people/families who have a second/commuter vehicle that they never drive more than 30-50 miles a day. An EV even with a limited range seems perfectly suitable for it. In fact, if they need second vehicle for other reasons, a larger battery might be an expensive piece of gear that is never really used.

We currently have an ICE vehicle for longer trips and for winter driving (Forester). But we rarely need more than one vehicle at same time, so my hope is that at some point in the near future we can have a single car that meets all our requirements.

FoolStreet
Posts: 772
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Iridium wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:53 pm
btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
Does the VW network you mention use the same electrical interface and quick charging plan as Tesla?

Or are we going to have a Beta vs VHS battle for EV cars???? So you have to drive to the exact matching EV charger for your car???
There is such a battle, but Tesla is not part of it. CHAdeMO came first and is heavily backed by Japanese car companies and their electric utility, but has a bulkier port design. CCS is backed by industry standards bodies, is more convenient (the same port supports the slower but more ubiquitous AC charging), and is mandated by law in the EU, but comes is different non-interchangeable styles and became available after some of the early fast charging networks started getting built. In most of the world, it is pretty clear which way to go and cars are built with the appropriate standard. In the US the battle is still playing out, so most fast chargers not installed by the belligerents support both.

Technically, Tesla probably has the best format, but only they use it. Their cars come with adapters to charge on other formats. Their charging stations will only work with Tesla cars and this represents a competitive advantage.

BTW, China has their own standard, but I do not believe it has gotten any traction outside the country.

btenny wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:02 pm
Plus from what I read this VW/Porsche Electrify America stuff is still is all view cells and talk at this point. No firm hardware. Plus they are talking about the car to grid technology which is more glue to slow down installing a charger network. So what is really going on besides talk????
They have been breaking down the problem into smaller chunks. There are now dozens of city-wide electrify America programs that have the local elastic utility offering free electric AC chargers (not quick chargers) to apartment owners and employers so that regular commuting is possible without a garage (the user of the charger pays a fee that covers the electricity and cost of maintenance). There has also been a concerted effort to establish quick charging stations along North-South transportation corridors on the West Coast. I am not as familiar with the status of taking that nationally, as Tesla already has.


Summary on topic for the thread: Tesla cars have the best charging infrastructure available to them in the US. The charging situation for their competitors is a mess in the US but gradually improving. It is a big advantage for Tesla; whether it is insurmountable depends on driving patterns and where you are located. There is likely to be more parity in charging infrastructure between Tesla and competitors in EU and Japan.
I would simplify to say that as long as any car has a J-1772 adapter then they have access to millions of Level 2 chargers. Just check plugshare.com. It is ridiculous how pervasive common charging infrastructure is.

umfan11244
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by umfan11244 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think they're all pretty sweet cars, but not sure I could give up my Ford Super-Duty 8-)

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 8841
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:34 pm

umfan11244 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think they're all pretty sweet cars, but not sure I could give up my Ford Super-Duty 8-)
Horses for courses.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

Iridium
Posts: 459
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Iridium » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:43 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:11 pm
I would simplify to say that as long as any car has a J-1772 adapter then they have access to millions of Level 2 chargers. Just check plugshare.com. It is ridiculous how pervasive common charging infrastructure is.
J1772 is great if you have a few hours to charge and it is becoming increasingly easy to find such a port at work and while running errands. The thing it really can't support though is a road trip. On J1772, the car has to be plugged in about 3 hours for every hour on the highway. Even assuming that every moment in the hotel,at meals, and rest stops the car is charging, that is a pretty lousy ratio.

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 8841
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:58 pm

Iridium wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:43 pm
FoolStreet wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:11 pm
I would simplify to say that as long as any car has a J-1772 adapter then they have access to millions of Level 2 chargers. Just check plugshare.com. It is ridiculous how pervasive common charging infrastructure is.
J1772 is great if you have a few hours to charge and it is becoming increasingly easy to find such a port at work and while running errands. The thing it really can't support though is a road trip. On J1772, the car has to be plugged in about 3 hours for every hour on the highway. Even assuming that every moment in the hotel,at meals, and rest stops the car is charging, that is a pretty lousy ratio.
Another reason I’d consider a Y is that it can use Supercharger 3.0. I assume that my X won’t be able to.

I have a 100A charger for my car at home (solar powered). I’m shocked at how slowly the few J1772 I’ve bothered plugging into charge compared to my home.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

niceguy7376
Posts: 2338
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Metro ATL

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by niceguy7376 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm

For all those competitor manufacturers coming up with similar range cars, could someone give examples?
We are only talking full EV.
Nissan Leaf is in market with 200+ mile and it costs 37K.
Chevy Volt or Bolt is all Electric. What is the max range and cost of that model.

Who else is currently selling any models (cars/suvs) that has 200+ mileage?

FoolStreet
Posts: 772
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:39 pm

niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm
For all those competitor manufacturers coming up with similar range cars, could someone give examples?
We are only talking full EV.
Nissan Leaf is in market with 200+ mile and it costs 37K.
Chevy Volt or Bolt is all Electric. What is the max range and cost of that model.

Who else is currently selling any models (cars/suvs) that has 200+ mileage?
Here is a link to Mercedes EQC. I think 72k USD. Sometime in 2020. About 220 miles. Looks like a sweet ride. They will sell. Tesla will have the function/feature advantage but the EQC looks nice.

https://youtu.be/BKBmlfscKoo

Strummer
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Strummer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 pm

At the present moment, I think there is a particular fork in the "I'd like to drive an electric car" road, and it depends on whether you want an electric as your only car or as a second car.

If it's a second car and you have a reasonable commute (say, 50 miles or less round trip), I think the smartest strategy is to watch the lease deals that are made available. There are a lot of cars available with around 100 miles of range, and I've seen incredibly inexpensive offers for three-year leases, at least here in California. If you don't need to make trips longer than your car's range, have a second ICE or hybrid car, or are willing to rent a car for road trips, you can try the electric lifestyle for a few years at low cost. If you don't like it, three years isn't all that long; if you do, there will be a lot more electric options three years from now.

If you want to have an EV as your only car and intend on making road trips, your options right now are considerably reduced. Road trips relying on level 2 chargers are inadvisable unless you're willing to take them at a pace so leisurely it verges on paralysis — approximately four hours of charging for every 100 miles of travel. Realistically, you need either CHAdeMO charging (which may be difficult to find) or Tesla Supercharging (which has a well-established network that your car will route itself through using your on-board GPS). The latter is quite convenient. If you plan your trip right, Tesla charging is almost incidental. On my last drive between the Bay Area and LA, I stopped once for coffee and once for lunch en route — there was never any waiting around for it to charge. I was taking breaks that were pleasant and necessary. It's quite pleasant when you get used to it.

In a few years, there will certainly be EVs from more manufacturers available, but I think Tesla has a healthy head start in network charging.

BTW, on another note — does anyone know if Daimler still holds a 10% stake in Tesla?

Slacker
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by Slacker » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm

niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm
For all those competitor manufacturers coming up with similar range cars, could someone give examples?
We are only talking full EV.
Nissan Leaf is in market with 200+ mile and it costs 37K.
Chevy Volt or Bolt is all Electric. What is the max range and cost of that model.

Who else is currently selling any models (cars/suvs) that has 200+ mileage?
Kia Niro EV 239mi
Hyundai Kona EV 258mi
Chevy Bolt 238mi
Nissan Leaf+ 226mi
Jaguar iPace 234mi

These are the ones currently for sale that I can think of off the top of my head.
I didn't look up prices but the Kia, Hyundai, Nissan and Chevy are all similarly priced around $35,000 to $40,000 before any incentives.
The Jaguar is around $75,000 before incentives.

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Slacker wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm
niceguy7376 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm
For all those competitor manufacturers coming up with similar range cars, could someone give examples?
We are only talking full EV.
Nissan Leaf is in market with 200+ mile and it costs 37K.
Chevy Volt or Bolt is all Electric. What is the max range and cost of that model.

Who else is currently selling any models (cars/suvs) that has 200+ mileage?
Kia Niro EV 239mi
Hyundai Kona EV 258mi
Chevy Bolt 238mi
Nissan Leaf+ 226mi
Jaguar iPace 234mi

These are the ones currently for sale that I can think of off the top of my head.
I didn't look up prices but the Kia, Hyundai, Nissan and Chevy are all similarly priced around $35,000 to $40,000 before any incentives.
The Jaguar is around $75,000 before incentives.
The 2020 Kia Soul is coming down the pike as well any day now. I think it is about 240 mi.
https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehic ... 20-soul-ev

More expensive but sweet ride is the Audi E-tron. Coming later this year.
https://www.audiusa.com/models/audi-e-tron

Porsche Taycan late this year and Polestar next year.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/h ... -electric/
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

randomguy
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:53 pm

squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:59 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
It would be for me. Without the network, your EV car is useless for long range. How many people would buy a gas car if they couldn't drive it beyond 200 miles?
How many people have a gas pump at home so that their car is always filled up when they wake up in the morning?:) Usage patterns change as technology changes. There are plenty of people getting by with 120 mile EVs today. There are tons of people that don't go on 3 hour+ trips often enough for it to matter. And then there are some that do. What the future brings is hard to say.

The supercharger network is a plus. For how long is unknown. If tesla gets out shipped by 5:1 in 2022, the other network will grow pretty darn rapidly. The supercharger network is not going to be the moat the protects Tesla for 20 years. If they are lucky it might help them with sales for 2-3 years.

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:56 pm

I 100% agree with the above. Heck I have a BMW i3 with an EV range of 55-75 miles depending on weather and I have used 3 gallons of gas in a year. I live in a major city though and we have a second car which as someone mentioned above is the optimal situation for many. No need to have two ICE cars for most families. I personally don't view any EV as an optimal road trip car for many in the midwest and South unless you are going over well traveled areas.

Charging stations are pure commodities and the gap will narrow quite quickly.
Last edited by matjen on Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

randomguy
Posts: 7822
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by randomguy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:59 pm

umfan11244 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:33 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think they're all pretty sweet cars, but not sure I could give up my Ford Super-Duty 8-)
https://products.rivian.com/ :) Ok I have never actually looked to see what its towing and load capacity is (and it really isn't supposed to be a super duty competitor from what I have seen) but for 99% of pickup truck owners, it will do the mall crawling/home depot duties just fine. Might need a lift kit though:) And yeah it counts as vaporware until they ship. I do like the idea of company going, lets going into the most popular market in the US rather than messing around in the subcompact/compact market.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am

FoolStreet wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:34 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm
squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.
Maybe it’s safe to come back without the thread getting hijacked by shorts. I’m interested because:
If Y is a suitable replacement for my X, which was always a bit too large for my needs. I want AWD, long range, loaded car, but Performance is not a must-have. I’ve had enough Insane acceleration in my X.
My wife, after agreeing to a hybrid Porsche Cayenne, decided that the slow charging, sucky range, on the hybrid weren’t worth it. I wish she didn’t opt for a Cayenne Turbo instead, but maybe she will eventually swap for a Y AWD Performance in a couple of years. If Porsche ever gets its act together and sells a true EV crossover, we will probably both be buyers.
I’d love your opinion on the x v y. We kind of need a new car now. I put down a deposit on the y (haven’t told the missus :-o ), but really can’t imagine waiting another year. The current price delta between the x and y is about 30k. Hard to justify since we are really not in the kiddie bus phase. As you know, the x lineup is trimmed and there is no short or mid range any longer.

I would consider stretching for the x if (assuming jobs are stable etc), they upgraded the chemistry in the 1865s to really bump up the range. But even if they dropped range to make it comparably affordable, it wouldn’t be the road trip car.

We may end up with a 2yr lease on a 2019 rav4 Hybrid. We’ll see.
You should figure what your range needs truly are and buy accordingly. My family has both an S and and X. Both have around 250 mile range, and quite frankly, it satisfied every need I had when living on the mainland. The Supercharger network was quite convenient when needed, but frankly, rarely needed.

The X allowed us to load up the whole family, 2 dogs, and a weekend worth of stuff to go to our Lakehouse nearly 3 hours away and it never let us down. Any of the small problems we had with our Teslas have been taken care of promptly and in a far more satisfactory manner than any ICE vehicle I ever owned (and there have been a a lot.) I've literally had a Ranger text me that he was coming to my place of work to fix my sunroof on my model S. When he got there I remotely unlocked the vehicle. He fixed the problem, texted that he was done, and I then remotely locked the vehicle. Didn't even need to make physical contact.

This is a typical Tesla service interaction. Once a year I have a Ranger come to my home and perform the annual inspection/maintenance on the vehicles (not necessary but gives me piece of mind.) The rest of the year I just happen to drive the two best vehicles I've ever owned.

I recently went to a Tesla event and drove a model 3. Quite honestly, it is even better from a fit/finish standpoint than my S or my X. When you consider the price point on that, Tesla has a real winner. The Model Y when available is going to fundamentally change the automotive industry. None of the legacy car manufacturers can compete with what Tesla has done. They are not saddled with Union manufacturing costs or Dealership support.

Just my 2 cents.

User avatar
Topic Author
4nursebee
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by 4nursebee » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:26 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am
FoolStreet wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:34 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:06 pm
squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:56 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:17 am
I was interested in discussions of the car, but once again a Tesla thread will become an ad hominem attack on its CEO and shorts “talking their book.” Unfollowing.
I was enjoying the good discussion too, but then quickly fell to crap.
Maybe it’s safe to come back without the thread getting hijacked by shorts. I’m interested because:
If Y is a suitable replacement for my X, which was always a bit too large for my needs. I want AWD, long range, loaded car, but Performance is not a must-have. I’ve had enough Insane acceleration in my X.
My wife, after agreeing to a hybrid Porsche Cayenne, decided that the slow charging, sucky range, on the hybrid weren’t worth it. I wish she didn’t opt for a Cayenne Turbo instead, but maybe she will eventually swap for a Y AWD Performance in a couple of years. If Porsche ever gets its act together and sells a true EV crossover, we will probably both be buyers.
I’d love your opinion on the x v y. We kind of need a new car now. I put down a deposit on the y (haven’t told the missus :-o ), but really can’t imagine waiting another year. The current price delta between the x and y is about 30k. Hard to justify since we are really not in the kiddie bus phase. As you know, the x lineup is trimmed and there is no short or mid range any longer.

I would consider stretching for the x if (assuming jobs are stable etc), they upgraded the chemistry in the 1865s to really bump up the range. But even if they dropped range to make it comparably affordable, it wouldn’t be the road trip car.

We may end up with a 2yr lease on a 2019 rav4 Hybrid. We’ll see.
You should figure what your range needs truly are and buy accordingly. My family has both an S and and X. Both have around 250 mile range, and quite frankly, it satisfied every need I had when living on the mainland. The Supercharger network was quite convenient when needed, but frankly, rarely needed.

The X allowed us to load up the whole family, 2 dogs, and a weekend worth of stuff to go to our Lakehouse nearly 3 hours away and it never let us down. Any of the small problems we had with our Teslas have been taken care of promptly and in a far more satisfactory manner than any ICE vehicle I ever owned (and there have been a a lot.) I've literally had a Ranger text me that he was coming to my place of work to fix my sunroof on my model S. When he got there I remotely unlocked the vehicle. He fixed the problem, texted that he was done, and I then remotely locked the vehicle. Didn't even need to make physical contact.

This is a typical Tesla service interaction. Once a year I have a Ranger come to my home and perform the annual inspection/maintenance on the vehicles (not necessary but gives me piece of mind.) The rest of the year I just happen to drive the two best vehicles I've ever owned.

I recently went to a Tesla event and drove a model 3. Quite honestly, it is even better from a fit/finish standpoint than my S or my X. When you consider the price point on that, Tesla has a real winner. The Model Y when available is going to fundamentally change the automotive industry. None of the legacy car manufacturers can compete with what Tesla has done. They are not saddled with Union manufacturing costs or Dealership support.

Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for describing your service experience!
4nursebee

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 8841
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:06 am

4Nursebee wrote:Thanks for describing your service experience!
Literally yesterday, a Ranger came to my house because my key fobs were acting poorly and draining battery (I had to use my phone app to open the car). Possibly a hardware issue (VIN0002xx). Replaced the fobs, programmed them, determined that there was an upgraded windshield wiper fluid gizmo and replaced it, gave me a courtesy inspection, and was on his way.

Better than the service I’ve experienced with Mercedes, Range Rover, Audi (a pox on Audi forever for their disregard for my safety), and countless others.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

stoptothink
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by stoptothink » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:00 am

randomguy wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:53 pm
squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:59 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
It would be for me. Without the network, your EV car is useless for long range. How many people would buy a gas car if they couldn't drive it beyond 200 miles?
How many people have a gas pump at home so that their car is always filled up when they wake up in the morning?:) Usage patterns change as technology changes. There are plenty of people getting by with 120 mile EVs today. There are tons of people that don't go on 3 hour+ trips often enough for it to matter. And then there are some that do. What the future brings is hard to say.
We go on 2-3 long road trips a year (primarily Utah to California), but other than that we almost never drive more than 50 miles in a single day. We share one car and put ~9k/miles on it a year. An electric, even in their current form and with the limited ways to charge, would be ideal for us; we'd just rent when we went on longer trips. I just can't see myself spending $40k or more on any of the current options when we can get a very efficient ice car like our jetta for 1/3 the cost. Even buying an off-lease Leaf for $9k or so wasn't really worth it when we evaluated the cars in the market we could buy new. I'm certainly hoping there are EV options in the "econobox" category when we look to buy again in 8-10yrs.

stoptothink
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by stoptothink » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:04 am

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am


I recently went to a Tesla event and drove a model 3. Quite honestly, it is even better from a fit/finish standpoint than my S or my X.
Wow, if that is the case, I don't even want to sit in an S or X. Our experience driving our neighbor's top-of-the-line 3 was underwhelming, at best. My wife (who drove) really wanted to like the car - she had been almost drooling every time he drove it away in the morning - but she simply couldn't get over how cheaply made it appeared. And the tablet, yeah I am sure you eventually get used to it, but it just isn't very functional.

squirm
Posts: 1743
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by squirm » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:53 am

randomguy wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:53 pm
squirm wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:59 pm
ohai wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:21 pm
Somewhat disagree. Other electric cars, like Nissan Leaf, have been around for a while. Supercharger network is surely an advantage, but it's probably not a dealbreaker for majority of people who charge the car in their garage and drive 30 miles a day.
It would be for me. Without the network, your EV car is useless for long range. How many people would buy a gas car if they couldn't drive it beyond 200 miles?
How many people have a gas pump at home so that their car is always filled up when they wake up in the morning?:) Usage patterns change as technology changes. There are plenty of people getting by with 120 mile EVs today. There are tons of people that don't go on 3 hour+ trips often enough for it to matter. And then there are some that do. What the future brings is hard to say.

The supercharger network is a plus. For how long is unknown. If tesla gets out shipped by 5:1 in 2022, the other network will grow pretty darn rapidly. The supercharger network is not going to be the moat the protects Tesla for 20 years. If they are lucky it might help them with sales for 2-3 years.
The only EV I would buy is a Tesla because of the supercharger network.
To many variables with public chargers and to many horror stories about some non Tesla EV owners getting iced. I prefer an EV where I feel confident I can get a quick charge when needed when out and about.

TravelGeek
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TravelGeek » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:20 am

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:00 am
We go on 2-3 long road trips a year (primarily Utah to California), but other than that we almost never drive more than 50 miles in a single day. We share one car and put ~9k/miles on it a year. An electric, even in their current form and with the limited ways to charge, would be ideal for us; we'd just rent when we went on longer trips. I just can't see myself spending $40k or more on any of the current options when we can get a very efficient ice car like our jetta for 1/3 the cost. Even buying an off-lease Leaf for $9k or so wasn't really worth it when we evaluated the cars in the market we could buy new. I'm certainly hoping there are EV options in the "econobox" category when we look to buy again in 8-10yrs.
I can’t either (one reason why I cancelled my Model 3 reservation), but I also didn’t pay $40k for our 2018 LEAF. MSRP starts at $30k and I got $7500 fed tax credit and $2500 Oregon rebate, so it really starts at $20k (minus whatever discount you can negotiate with your dealer). Not sure what rebates are available from your state or utility.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:27 am

Strummer wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 pm
At the present moment, I think there is a particular fork in the "I'd like to drive an electric car" road, and it depends on whether you want an electric as your only car or as a second car.

If it's a second car and you have a reasonable commute (say, 50 miles or less round trip), I think the smartest strategy is to watch the lease deals that are made available. There are a lot of cars available with around 100 miles of range, and I've seen incredibly inexpensive offers for three-year leases, at least here in California. If you don't need to make trips longer than your car's range, have a second ICE or hybrid car, or are willing to rent a car for road trips, you can try the electric lifestyle for a few years at low cost. If you don't like it, three years isn't all that long; if you do, there will be a lot more electric options three years from now.

If you want to have an EV as your only car and intend on making road trips, your options right now are considerably reduced. Road trips relying on level 2 chargers are inadvisable unless you're willing to take them at a pace so leisurely it verges on paralysis — approximately four hours of charging for every 100 miles of travel. Realistically, you need either CHAdeMO charging (which may be difficult to find) or Tesla Supercharging (which has a well-established network that your car will route itself through using your on-board GPS). The latter is quite convenient. If you plan your trip right, Tesla charging is almost incidental. On my last drive between the Bay Area and LA, I stopped once for coffee and once for lunch en route — there was never any waiting around for it to charge. I was taking breaks that were pleasant and necessary. It's quite pleasant when you get used to it.

In a few years, there will certainly be EVs from more manufacturers available, but I think Tesla has a healthy head start in network charging.

BTW, on another note — does anyone know if Daimler still holds a 10% stake in Tesla?
Daimler sold all their shares a few years ago. Their $50 million investment turned into 780 million. Not bad for not indexing.

FoolStreet
Posts: 772
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:18 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:29 am

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:04 am
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am


I recently went to a Tesla event and drove a model 3. Quite honestly, it is even better from a fit/finish standpoint than my S or my X.
Wow, if that is the case, I don't even want to sit in an S or X. Our experience driving our neighbor's top-of-the-line 3 was underwhelming, at best. My wife (who drove) really wanted to like the car - she had been almost drooling every time he drove it away in the morning - but she simply couldn't get over how cheaply made it appeared. And the tablet, yeah I am sure you eventually get used to it, but it just isn't very functional.
It is a very different paradigm. I can understand where she is coming from. But it really takes time getting used to the new paradigm. Like giving up my blackberry keyboard with buttons for the iPhone screen. I don’t mean to contradict her, but... yeah, it is not cheap or non-functional.

stoptothink
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by stoptothink » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:47 am

FoolStreet wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:29 am
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:04 am
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am


I recently went to a Tesla event and drove a model 3. Quite honestly, it is even better from a fit/finish standpoint than my S or my X.
Wow, if that is the case, I don't even want to sit in an S or X. Our experience driving our neighbor's top-of-the-line 3 was underwhelming, at best. My wife (who drove) really wanted to like the car - she had been almost drooling every time he drove it away in the morning - but she simply couldn't get over how cheaply made it appeared. And the tablet, yeah I am sure you eventually get used to it, but it just isn't very functional.
It is a very different paradigm. I can understand where she is coming from. But it really takes time getting used to the new paradigm. Like giving up my blackberry keyboard with buttons for the iPhone screen. I don’t mean to contradict her, but... yeah, it is not cheap or non-functional.
The dashboard tablet, I can absolutely see what you are saying, but the "fit and finish"; that has nothing to do with a changing paradigm and it was shockingly poor for a vehicle our neighbor spent almost $60k on. I don't want to generalize, but at the very least, Tesla's quality control is almost non-existent. The model 3 is head shoulders and knees above our $13k jetta in almost every metric, but our neighbors had very obviously poor paint, already some rust, panel alignment issues, stitching already coming apart on the interior, and a center console that kept randomly opening. That is unacceptable for a car with <10k miles.

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:49 am

I think the interior materials are cheap when compared to similarly priced cars. Especially the S and X. The build quality on all of them is quite poor.

I agree with FoolStreet that the paradigm is different and a lot of the Tesla software as it relates to charging especially is superior. However, I don't think any Tesla has Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. Nor do they have heads up displays or even blind spot monitoring. These are all super nice things that many current 35+k cars have.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm

On the fit and finish:

My 4 year old plus model S has held up quite well. The inside looks as good as the day I bought it. It obviously has a spartan aesthetic compared to other similarly priced “luxury” vehicles. But, I’ve owned some of those competitors and much prefer the Tesla aesthetic.

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.

I just valeted my car the other day at a restaurant. Not only do the valets still inappropriately leer at my car, usually the restaurant crowd does too. And Teslas are becoming quite common where I live. Not bad for a 4.5 yr old car that I use as my daily driver.

Sure, maybe Lexus has smaller panel gaps, Mercedes may have softer leather, and BMW...has a fleet of identical looking vehicles at varying price points. But Tesla is destroying them in sales. That alone says a lot.

dustinst22
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:09 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:14 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.
Interesting. I just looked up the reliability data on consumer reports for the Model S. All years score very poorly.

stoptothink
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by stoptothink » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm
On the fit and finish:

My 4 year old plus model S has held up quite well. The inside looks as good as the day I bought it. It obviously has a spartan aesthetic compared to other similarly priced “luxury” vehicles. But, I’ve owned some of those competitors and much prefer the Tesla aesthetic.

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.

I just valeted my car the other day at a restaurant. Not only do the valets still inappropriately leer at my car, usually the restaurant crowd does too. And Teslas are becoming quite common where I live. Not bad for a 4.5 yr old car that I use as my daily driver.

Sure, maybe Lexus has smaller panel gaps, Mercedes may have softer leather, and BMW...has a fleet of identical looking vehicles at varying price points. But Tesla is destroying them in sales. That alone says a lot.
So, are you suggesting the "fit and finish" statement was hyperbolic? I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.

stoptothink
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by stoptothink » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:19 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:14 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.
Interesting. I just looked up the reliability data on consumer reports for the Model S. All years score very poorly.
That's the game, obviously you can't have any real data about reliability, etc. when a car is just released. Furthermore, anybody who is buying a Tesla at this point is likely a tech early adopter; they are definitely going to initially like something as paradigm-changing as the Tesla. I'm not so sure even now that we have any data yet that is relevant for the general consumer. It's just too new.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:50 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:14 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.
Interesting. I just looked up the reliability data on consumer reports for the Model S. All years score very poorly.
There are a myriad of sources on this matter

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas- ... ested.html

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:57 pm

Please! They lowered their rankings. All these cars are poorly made. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... ended-list
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:08 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm
On the fit and finish:

My 4 year old plus model S has held up quite well. The inside looks as good as the day I bought it. It obviously has a spartan aesthetic compared to other similarly priced “luxury” vehicles. But, I’ve owned some of those competitors and much prefer the Tesla aesthetic.

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.

I just valeted my car the other day at a restaurant. Not only do the valets still inappropriately leer at my car, usually the restaurant crowd does too. And Teslas are becoming quite common where I live. Not bad for a 4.5 yr old car that I use as my daily driver.

Sure, maybe Lexus has smaller panel gaps, Mercedes may have softer leather, and BMW...has a fleet of identical looking vehicles at varying price points. But Tesla is destroying them in sales. That alone says a lot.
So, are you suggesting the "fit and finish" statement was hyperbolic? I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
A lot of commentary on Tesla is hyperbolic. Both ways. Even the above commenter talking about drivers of Teslas being “early adopters.” There’s an agenda there, you just don’t know what it is. Maybe iPhone users can be considered early adopters comparatively with regards to land line users.

Musk placed an 8 year, INFINITE mile warranty on the battery pack for the model S. That’s confidence in your product. I’ve never seen Toyota do that with a Prius. Within the past 6 months, a Model S in L.A. went over 500,000 miles on the odometer. It belonged to a shuttle service, and the only major mechanical work that had been done was a battery replacement as it had been charged predominantly as Superchargers throughout its life...something known to torch the battery if done routinely.

As for fit and finish, a lot of that perception is subjective. Some people just aren’t going to like it. People not comfortable with an iPad probably aren’t going to be comfortable with using the screen interface of the vehicle. Apple play for instance, isn’t likely to ever show up in a Tesla, but its system is pretty darn good. I can’t tell you how many times my car’s system has been upgraded since I’ve owned it. Each time making it better and more functional. Tell me one other car manufacturer that does that. Ford will try to charge you $150 just to upgrade the maps on it’s crappy Nav system on a year to year basis.

dustinst22
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:09 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:10 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:50 pm

There are a myriad of sources on this matter

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas- ... ested.html
A 4 year old article on a new segment is probably not too useful when it comes to reliability data. Consumer Reports adjusts its ratings as new data comes in. I understand you're a fanboy, and that's fine, but the data is indicating other than your claims.

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:12 pm

BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:08 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm
On the fit and finish:

My 4 year old plus model S has held up quite well. The inside looks as good as the day I bought it. It obviously has a spartan aesthetic compared to other similarly priced “luxury” vehicles. But, I’ve owned some of those competitors and much prefer the Tesla aesthetic.

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.

I just valeted my car the other day at a restaurant. Not only do the valets still inappropriately leer at my car, usually the restaurant crowd does too. And Teslas are becoming quite common where I live. Not bad for a 4.5 yr old car that I use as my daily driver.

Sure, maybe Lexus has smaller panel gaps, Mercedes may have softer leather, and BMW...has a fleet of identical looking vehicles at varying price points. But Tesla is destroying them in sales. That alone says a lot.
So, are you suggesting the "fit and finish" statement was hyperbolic? I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
A lot of commentary on Tesla is hyperbolic. Both ways. Even the above commenter talking about drivers of Teslas being “early adopters.” There’s an agenda there, you just don’t know what it is. Maybe iPhone users can be considered early adopters comparatively with regards to land line users.

Musk placed an 8 year, INFINITE mile warranty on the battery pack for the model S. That’s confidence in your product. I’ve never seen Toyota do that with a Prius. Within the past 6 months, a Model S in L.A. went over 500,000 miles on the odometer. It belonged to a shuttle service, and the only major mechanical work that had been done was a battery replacement as it had been charged predominantly as Superchargers throughout its life...something known to torch the battery if done routinely.

As for fit and finish, a lot of that perception is subjective. Some people just aren’t going to like it. People not comfortable with an iPad probably aren’t going to be comfortable with using the screen interface of the vehicle. Apple play for instance, isn’t likely to ever show up in a Tesla, but its system is pretty darn good. I can’t tell you how many times my car’s system has been upgraded since I’ve owned it. Each time making it better and more functional. Tell me one other car manufacturer that does that. Ford will try to charge you $150 just to upgrade the maps on it’s crappy Nav system on a year to year basis.
You have no idea what Android Auto orApple CarPlay is do you? 😜
Last edited by matjen on Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:13 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:10 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:50 pm

There are a myriad of sources on this matter

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/27/teslas- ... ested.html
A 4 year old article on a new segment is probably not too useful when it comes to reliability data. Consumer Reports adjusts its ratings as new data comes in.
I clearly stated that when first rated. Their later criticisms are quite debatable. And usually debated by those without an actual clue. Just the short sellers of the stock.

BionicBillWalsh
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:56 am
Location: Sandwich Islands

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:15 pm

matjen wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:12 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:08 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm
On the fit and finish:

My 4 year old plus model S has held up quite well. The inside looks as good as the day I bought it. It obviously has a spartan aesthetic compared to other similarly priced “luxury” vehicles. But, I’ve owned some of those competitors and much prefer the Tesla aesthetic.

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.

I just valeted my car the other day at a restaurant. Not only do the valets still inappropriately leer at my car, usually the restaurant crowd does too. And Teslas are becoming quite common where I live. Not bad for a 4.5 yr old car that I use as my daily driver.

Sure, maybe Lexus has smaller panel gaps, Mercedes may have softer leather, and BMW...has a fleet of identical looking vehicles at varying price points. But Tesla is destroying them in sales. That alone says a lot.
So, are you suggesting the "fit and finish" statement was hyperbolic? I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
A lot of commentary on Tesla is hyperbolic. Both ways. Even the above commenter talking about drivers of Teslas being “early adopters.” There’s an agenda there, you just don’t know what it is. Maybe iPhone users can be considered early adopters comparatively with regards to land line users.

Musk placed an 8 year, INFINITE mile warranty on the battery pack for the model S. That’s confidence in your product. I’ve never seen Toyota do that with a Prius. Within the past 6 months, a Model S in L.A. went over 500,000 miles on the odometer. It belonged to a shuttle service, and the only major mechanical work that had been done was a battery replacement as it had been charged predominantly as Superchargers throughout its life...something known to torch the battery if done routinely.

As for fit and finish, a lot of that perception is subjective. Some people just aren’t going to like it. People not comfortable with an iPad probably aren’t going to be comfortable with using the screen interface of the vehicle. Apple play for instance, isn’t likely to ever show up in a Tesla, but its system is pretty darn good. I can’t tell you how many times my car’s system has been upgraded since I’ve owned it. Each time making it better and more functional. Tell me one other car manufacturer that does that. Ford will try to charge you $150 just to upgrade the maps on it’s crappy Nav system on a year to year basis.
You have no idea what Android Auto orApple CarPlay is do you? 😜
I know exactly what they are. What is your point?

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 54891
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:54 pm

I removed several off-topic posts criticizing members who support Tesla. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.

...At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

EHEngineer
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by EHEngineer » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:28 pm

stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
My "fit and finish" expectations posed a problem for me getting a Tesla too. I have experienced various squeakes and rattles with friends' Teslas, and I find them unacceptable. Right now that's the way Tesla makes cars, and you have to be prepared to deal with more of that stuff than you would in the better made ice cars. But the cars are a joy to drive. If you like smooth & resposive electric power and autopilot, there is no substitute (for now). Just set your expectations accordingly so you don't end up regretful.

I believe tesla will get better as competition increases.
Or, you can ... decline to let me, a stranger on the Internet, egg you on to an exercise in time-wasting, and you could say "I'm probably OK and I don't care about it that much." -Nisiprius

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 8841
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:43 pm

EHEngineer wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:28 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
My "fit and finish" expectations posed a problem for me getting a Tesla too. I have experienced various squeakes and rattles with friends' Teslas, and I find them unacceptable. Right now that's the way Tesla makes cars, and you have to be prepared to deal with more of that stuff than you would in the better made ice cars. But the cars are a joy to drive. If you like smooth & resposive electric power and autopilot, there is no substitute (for now). Just set your expectations accordingly so you don't end up regretful.

I believe tesla will get better as competition increases.
I’m not saying that it’s the entire story, but the rumble and vibration of a large ICE can mask many noises. The human ear is not an unbiased witness.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

EHEngineer
Posts: 770
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:35 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by EHEngineer » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:43 pm
EHEngineer wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:28 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
My "fit and finish" expectations posed a problem for me getting a Tesla too. I have experienced various squeakes and rattles with friends' Teslas, and I find them unacceptable. Right now that's the way Tesla makes cars, and you have to be prepared to deal with more of that stuff than you would in the better made ice cars. But the cars are a joy to drive. If you like smooth & resposive electric power and autopilot, there is no substitute (for now). Just set your expectations accordingly so you don't end up regretful.

I believe tesla will get better as competition increases.
I’m not saying that it’s the entire story, but the rumble and vibration of a large ICE can mask many noises. The human ear is not an unbiased witness.
absolutely. I never realized how loud brakes are until I silently rolled down a hill and stopped in a tesla. I thought, "What's wrong with these brakes?" Then I tried it in my subaru with the engine off, and its brakes were just as loud.

I don't think many tesla owners think their brakes are loud, but it was quite noticable to me.
Or, you can ... decline to let me, a stranger on the Internet, egg you on to an exercise in time-wasting, and you could say "I'm probably OK and I don't care about it that much." -Nisiprius

User avatar
wander
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by wander » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:02 pm

I am happy with my car and won't plan to buy any Tesla soon.

User avatar
matjen
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by matjen » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:33 pm

EHEngineer wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:43 pm
EHEngineer wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:28 pm
stoptothink wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:17 pm
I really really really want to like Teslas and there is almost no chance our next vehicle is ICE, but nothing is going to convince me to spend more than twice as much on a car that has worse quality control than my bare bones economy car. My neighbor is much the same as most Tesla owners, he didn't think the issues that were unacceptable to my wife and I were a problem; and if they aren't a problem for him, I guess they aren't a problem.
My "fit and finish" expectations posed a problem for me getting a Tesla too. I have experienced various squeakes and rattles with friends' Teslas, and I find them unacceptable. Right now that's the way Tesla makes cars, and you have to be prepared to deal with more of that stuff than you would in the better made ice cars. But the cars are a joy to drive. If you like smooth & resposive electric power and autopilot, there is no substitute (for now). Just set your expectations accordingly so you don't end up regretful.

I believe tesla will get better as competition increases.
I’m not saying that it’s the entire story, but the rumble and vibration of a large ICE can mask many noises. The human ear is not an unbiased witness.
absolutely. I never realized how loud brakes are until I silently rolled down a hill and stopped in a tesla. I thought, "What's wrong with these brakes?" Then I tried it in my subaru with the engine off, and its brakes were just as loud.

I don't think many tesla owners think their brakes are loud, but it was quite noticable to me.
You know I was questioning this defense of Tesla build quality since my i3 is very quiet, but you are 100% right regarding brakes. I have very agrressive Regen so in city don't use them much but when I do you can hear and feel the rumble because the drivetrain is so quiet.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

JackoC
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by JackoC » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:59 pm

dustinst22 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:14 pm
BionicBillWalsh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:59 pm

When consumer reports first evaluated the model S P85D, they claimed that the car broke their system for rating as the car exceeded every measure they looked at. The cars have only gotten better since then, despite what the short seller narrative has been.
Interesting. I just looked up the reliability data on consumer reports for the Model S. All years score very poorly.
This to me is a real issue with some Tesla consumer reactions. Some owners are just really into the company and what it stands for in their opinion. This is more potentially misleading IMO than people who have a financial take on the company. The mods can chase the financially oriented negative posts out of threads about the cars or not, but even if not they are often pretty obvious. It's less obvious if a good customer review is somebody who simply isn't going to admit that Tesla is having serious problems becoming a real car company in the areas of quality control and product support. And this might even apply to some degree to Consumer Reports itself. I'm not generally in the camp saying CR ratings are agenda driven, I don't think there's any evidence the most important and controversial of their ratings, the reliability records, are that way. But I think the initial rating of Model S as 'so super it broke our system' kind of might have been that way, a bit of excess enthusiasm by CR's testers based on non-car factors. The reliability records over time in contrast have told a troubling story about that car. If you're a big enough fan of the company and what it means in a stylistic, social consciousness kind of way to drive and enjoy their cars, and so decide you *will* enjoy the car, that's fine for you. But while I'm no short in Tesla (or any individual stock) I'd only buy their car if I was convinced the advantages really overcame my natural preference for IC. I'd only feel satisfied with a Tesla if build quality was high and basically nothing went wrong, same bar for satisfaction in today's IC cars (I've been driving a long time, 40 yrs ago car reliability stank compared to now and poor fit/finish also a lot more common, but now the realistic expectation is very high build quality and near total reliability in new cars). A lot of things I see tell me that's not a good bet for Tesla's, as of now.

I agree though with pro/anti Tesla posts that somewhat downplay the charger network as a huge deal either way. Right now we don't have our own garage and that pretty much rules out an EV for the time being anyway. If we did have one we might get a charger and an EV as second car. And almost never drive it outside charge range of our house. But I like long road trips on small roads in my own (performance) car, not even being tied to Interstates, and definitely not stopping for 10's of minutes to charge every couple 100 miles along Interstates. And the more Tesla sells the more crowded those stations will be. So I would always have an IC car for road trips. That's not anti-Tesla especially.

niceguy7376
Posts: 2338
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:59 pm
Location: Metro ATL

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by niceguy7376 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:15 pm

Slacker wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:09 pm
Kia Niro EV 239mi
Hyundai Kona EV 258mi
Chevy Bolt 238mi
Nissan Leaf+ 226mi
Jaguar iPace 234mi

These are the ones currently for sale that I can think of off the top of my head.
I didn't look up prices but the Kia, Hyundai, Nissan and Chevy are all similarly priced around $35,000 to $40,000 before any incentives.
The Jaguar is around $75,000 before incentives.
So for all those that say there are tons of other models coming - They are of the same price for same range compared to Model 3
Someone mentioned MB EQC video of a Jay Leno garage - it is coming sometime in 2020 (just like tesla says model y is in 2021 - No fixed timeframe)

If you are into electric cars, are they same prices as Tesla 3 for the same range? I say yes. The main difference is that Tesla already sold so many cars that the federal tax credit started going down. Nissan, which was one of the first to have a full electric is still having full credit because it didnt sell that many cars.

As for those that say they got a Jetta for a 1/3 price of model 3 - You are comparing a EV with ICE. In that case, you can make that statement against any EV cars. I drive a 2005 corolla and I will never compare my car with any EV car, not even a basic leaf

Looks like more people just hate Tesla and pile on it rather than look at it as building something in a new category (EV) than the mainstream companies who still cannot build and sell at the same pace as Tesla. As for their interiors, I love their interiors for simplicity and functional.
It is similar to many people liking starbucks but true coffee aficionados hating it for their products. Same goes with Apple.

They just cater to different set of consumers.

As for Model Y, I dont know if i would love it. If it is just a stretched Model 3, it might not interest me. We currently have a highlander and love it for the height, third row option (didnt use it for long trips, just around the city). The most we have driven at a stretch would be 500 miles in a single day with breaks in between. So this is definitely possible with an EV requiring one full charge in between.

ncbill
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by ncbill » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Is there a size comparison anywhere?

E.g. Model Y vs. Rav4, etc.

User avatar
Topic Author
4nursebee
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:56 am
Location: US

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by 4nursebee » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:32 pm

ncbill wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:04 pm
Is there a size comparison anywhere?

E.g. Model Y vs. Rav4, etc.
What I could find is cargo space
Model Y is 66 cubic feet
Rav4 is 35.6-38.4 cubic feet.
4nursebee

dustinst22
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:09 pm
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Re: Tesla Model Y

Post by dustinst22 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:15 pm

4nursebee wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:32 pm

What I could find is cargo space
Model Y is 66 cubic feet
Rav4 is 35.6-38.4 cubic feet.

I'm assuming this is with seats folded down. Rav4 is 70 cubic feet with seats down.

Post Reply