Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

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harikaried
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by harikaried » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:07 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:32 pm
But if I want to turn down the radio, I can keep my eyes on the road and feel for the volume knob.
You make it sound like it's so difficult to turn down the radio on a Model 3. I can keep my eyes on the road and use the left scroll button on the steering wheel to adjust volume (or mute/pause) and change songs without needing to reach out and feel for some volume knob.

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monkey_business
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by monkey_business » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:15 pm

harikaried wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:07 pm
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:32 pm
But if I want to turn down the radio, I can keep my eyes on the road and feel for the volume knob.
You make it sound like it's so difficult to turn down the radio on a Model 3. I can keep my eyes on the road and use the left scroll button on the steering wheel to adjust volume (or mute/pause) and change songs without needing to reach out and feel for some volume knob.
I think perhaps the point was less the volume control per se, and more the fact that the Model 3 requires touch input for nearly everything. For example, suppose I want to turn the AC up, and turn the vents towards my face. In a regular car, you grab the vent, turn it where you want it, then press a down arrow on the AC panel (or turn a knob, etc), and you're good to go. What is the process for this on a Model 3?

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:25 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:13 pm
DanMahowny wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:57 pm
Musk promised a $35k model3 three years ago.

And now he is making the same promise again.

And people still believe him.

You can talk yourself in/out of a model3 all day long. Doesn't matter, it doesn't exist, and never will.
It's on the website with delivery promised in two weeks. He's made some foolish promises, but I doubt this is one of them. Tesla has historically been late on delivering, but they usually deliver at least an approximation of what was promised.
Musk has clarified that they won’t be really ready to deliver any real numbers until late June. Which, of course, is after the tax credit gets halved again. This car is nothing like what was promised.

Tesla website and Elon Musk differ on Model 3 delivery dates. Two weeks? Four months?
https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/ ... story.html

Moreover, they are laying off staff all over including service staff. They already can’t adequately service these things. Stay away is my advice. You can afford whatever you want but these cars will be nightmares to maintain moving forward.
Last edited by matjen on Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MathWizard
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by MathWizard » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:35 pm

I looked at a model 3. One issue I had with the purported $35K price was that at that price
it would not include the "autopilot". All the hardware was there, but not the software. Last summer I was
told that would be about a $7 to 8K upgrade. Also, the base Model 3 had a 50KW battery pack with an advertized range of
220 miles. The upgrade to a 75KW pack, which increases the range to 330 mile, was $7K at purchase time, or
$8K later.

But this means that for a Tesla that I would want, with the autopilot features and the long range, the price is closer
to $50K, and perhaps even more if there were other upgrades that I was not aware of (I guess that there is a $1K delivery charge
that I have not yet accounted for.)

If I look only at the base model Tesla,
what is the big advantage over a Chevy Bolt, about the same price and range,
or a Toyota plug-in Prius, for which the high end is about the same price, and range is 25 miles pure electric, 660 miles Gasoline?

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Cycle
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 pm

have you ever tried biking those two miles to the train? i bike to an express bus, it's delightful even when -34F.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

Big Dog
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Big Dog » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:52 pm

I think perhaps the point was less the volume control per se, and more the fact that the Model 3 requires touch input for nearly everything. For example, suppose I want to turn the AC up, and turn the vents towards my face. In a regular car, you grab the vent, turn it where you want it, then press a down arrow on the AC panel (or turn a knob, etc), and you're good to go. What is the process for this on a Model 3?
I too, thought that the tactile feel of certain buttons would be missed, but at least for me, they are not. (Have had my M3 for 11 months now.)

The radio volume does work by a tactile scroll wheel. Can even change to next song by same wheel.

Not sure about y'all, but on average, I opened my glove box 2-3 per year on every car I've had. (Two of those times is just to put in the new insurance card.) Just don't/never have used it.

AC vents, to me, are 'set it and forget it'. Yes, fan speed is controlled by the touchscreen. Rather easy to change air flow direction.

Glancing right to see speed is no different than glancing down. Either takes a split second.

In summary, the touch screen works fine. (Again, I was a skeptic.)

fwiw: the wife is really old school, and I thought she would absolutely hate the gizmos and the screen, as her car was a 4-dr Jag sedan. Boy I was wrong. She loves everything about the M3, so had to get her one too.

srt7
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by srt7 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:06 pm

levocap wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:20 pm
how do you think I got to $4m :D :D :D :D :D
Well said! :sharebeer

My 2 cents ... skip the Tesla. Why?

1. I sat in one and it was hideously sparse. I simply couldn't wrap my mind around that amazingly boring dashboard.
2. Most controls interface via a giant tablet? And people complained when Honda took out the volume knob in one of their Accords :confused
3. Elon Musk is the heart and soul of Tesla. It is no secret that he's working himself to death. What happens if he cannot operate at the same levels? He's too egoistical to give up the reins or even to sell Tesla. Hope he has a long life but say he checks out sooner than expected. What becomes of Tesla? Probably gets bought out by Ford/Chevy? I guess my point is without Elon their is no Tesla (in its current glory).

So. What was your second favorite car/brand again? :)
Last edited by srt7 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Glasgow
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Glasgow » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:15 pm

I was once rear-ended at around 30 mph, and wife scrubbed the edge of a concrete a wall while turning right into a parking space at 1-2 mph next to the wall.
- The rear-ended one got into the frame, and quarter panel, rear gate, bumper and rear frame support. Total repair cost $22K
- The scrubbed one got into the door, quarter panel and side skirt. Total repair cost $14K
Each instance, my car was held for 5 weeks at the shop due to supplemental adjustment + 1 month queue time before bring the car to the shop which has done superb jobs on blending paints and panel alignment,.
I can get a Model 3 out of that amount but thanks to insurance. The later case causes our premium go up by 50%. This makes me think that although I really like owning Tesla (plan to keep it pass 300K miles), my next car in retirement would be some Lexus IS/NX-sized EV with the hope that insurance cost is not high, repair cost wouldn't be too much and quick repair turn-around time.
To answer ops questions, if you want Model 3 and ok with below conditions, you'll love the car:
Tesla might go under and car might not be serviceable
Take a long time for any accident repair that you have to go to Tesla certified bodyshop
Craftsmanship is careless - door trims don't align well. Take a look at B-pillar chrome trim on Model S and X, and chrome door handle alignment on any Model X and you'd find a bunch of them misaligned.
Other than that, I love my Tesla. Best car ever own - no oil change, no stopping by gas station, saves me thousands on gasoline, no vibration, brake pads would last up to 100K miles if you use standard regen braking.

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HomerJ
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by HomerJ » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:00 am

Cycle wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 pm
have you ever tried biking those two miles to the train? i bike to an express bus, it's delightful even when -34F.
FYI, trying to convince people that biking in -34F is no big deal defeats your entire message.

You will convert LESS people this way, as they will discount the rest of your testimony, after hearing that statement. Just a friendly tip. :)
The J stands for Jay

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ohboy!
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by ohboy! » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:13 am

carol-brennan wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:23 am
The only car I could get excited about is one that drives itself on an infrastructure that includes other self-driving cars.

A couple of generations from now, people will look back at the time of human-driven automobiles as incredibly dangerous.

In the U.S. alone, over 37,000 people die each year in automobile accidents. Each time you step into an automobile, you are risking your life and probably taking the biggest risk that you take on any given day. Because you are behind the wheel, you probably think that you are in control of that risk. Hardly the case, of course. Driving through any intersection, you have no idea whether someone to your left or right is so drunk or distracted that he ignores a red light. Tesla or Toyota, it won't matter if the person runs into you at 60 mph. Your life will likely never be the same, if you still have one at all.

People on this forum talk a lot about reducing risk. Stay out of cars as much as possible. That'll help ensure that you get to an age where you can actually enjoy all the money we talk so much about on this forum.

When I think about cars, I thank my lucky stars that I have remained alive as long as I have, despite having to drive. I have been in two serious accidents in my life, neither of which I caused or had any control over whatsoever. A couple of milliseconds one way or the other, and I would not be alive right now to write this post.

Apparently the OP has a good deal of assets. If so, I'd encourage him or her to step back and look at a bigger picture. Consider moving somewhere where cars are not a necessity. Europe comes to mind. The infrastructure in many places there easily supports getting around comfortably without automobiles, and a side benefit will be better health through walking more. That's reducing risk on two fronts.
Agree that SDC are coming quick and will lessen dangers of driving. However OP is wondering about buying a new car and you offer move to europe? Why do I suspect you are composing your message while driving?

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:24 am

Glasgow wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:15 pm
........ brake pads would last up to 100K miles if you use standard regen braking.
To keep the brake calipers from seizing due to lack of use, once in a while, while there is nobody behind you, stand on the brakes to move the caliper pistons. Complete brake caliper replacements are common in Teslas due to lack of use. I'd rather pay a couple hundred dollars for pads then many thousands of dollars for calipers.
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randomguy
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by randomguy » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:38 am

MathWizard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:35 pm
I looked at a model 3. One issue I had with the purported $35K price was that at that price
it would not include the "autopilot". All the hardware was there, but not the software. Last summer I was
told that would be about a $7 to 8K upgrade. Also, the base Model 3 had a 50KW battery pack with an advertized range of
220 miles. The upgrade to a 75KW pack, which increases the range to 330 mile, was $7K at purchase time, or
$8K later.

But this means that for a Tesla that I would want, with the autopilot features and the long range, the price is closer
to $50K, and perhaps even more if there were other upgrades that I was not aware of (I guess that there is a $1K delivery charge
that I have not yet accounted for.)

If I look only at the base model Tesla,
what is the big advantage over a Chevy Bolt, about the same price and range,
or a Toyota plug-in Prius, for which the high end is about the same price, and range is 25 miles pure electric, 660 miles Gasoline?
Autopilot is 3k not 7k. The 5k option is some self driving option that may or may not ever do anything significant.

And yes the car you want is often well above the stripper price that gets advertised. It has been that way in the car business for a long time. What was shocking about the M3 was about how high above the starting price the game started. Reasonable people expected to pay 5-10k more to get the cars equipped how they wanted. The initial M3 prices were more like 15-20k because you were forced to get the pretty much fully loaded model.

I think going 0-60 almost 2x as fast and driving 8x as far on electricity are a couple of pretty clear big advantages of the M3 over a Prius Prime. :) As far as bolt versus tesla, why would you buy the bolt when you can get the tesla? The are slightly different cars and will appeal to different people but I expect for the same price most people would take a M3. I do expect the bolt though to be much cheaper. The MSRPs might be closer but the local dealer has all of the Bolts 5k off.

For most M3 debates is always seems to be I have been buying 25k hondas/toyotas but I really want 50k+ luxury car. Is a Model 3 the way I can justify doing that? The answer for a lot of people seems to be yes:)

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am

matjen wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:25 pm
alfaspider wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:13 pm
DanMahowny wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:57 pm
Musk promised a $35k model3 three years ago.

And now he is making the same promise again.

And people still believe him.

You can talk yourself in/out of a model3 all day long. Doesn't matter, it doesn't exist, and never will.
It's on the website with delivery promised in two weeks. He's made some foolish promises, but I doubt this is one of them. Tesla has historically been late on delivering, but they usually deliver at least an approximation of what was promised.
Musk has clarified that they won’t be really ready to deliver any real numbers until late June. Which, of course, is after the tax credit gets halved again. This car is nothing like what was promised.

Tesla website and Elon Musk differ on Model 3 delivery dates. Two weeks? Four months?
https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/ ... story.html

Moreover, they are laying off staff all over including service staff. They already can’t adequately service these things. Stay away is my advice. You can afford whatever you want but these cars will be nightmares to maintain moving forward.
The car that was promised would be $35k without credits. That's what they are offering -not a $35k car that is even cheaper with credits (although a few may get that). And there really isn't that much maintenance to do on a Tesla. Consumables like brake pads and tires don't need to be done by Tesla, and there really isn't much else to do. The Model 3 had a few teething problems for very early production cars, but other than cosmetic issues, I'm not seeming many complaints about it.

I agree that Tesla's long term future is far from assured, but they do make a very compelling product at a reasonable price point for what it is.

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:25 am

randomguy wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:38 am
MathWizard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:35 pm
I looked at a model 3. One issue I had with the purported $35K price was that at that price
it would not include the "autopilot". All the hardware was there, but not the software. Last summer I was
told that would be about a $7 to 8K upgrade. Also, the base Model 3 had a 50KW battery pack with an advertized range of
220 miles. The upgrade to a 75KW pack, which increases the range to 330 mile, was $7K at purchase time, or
$8K later.

But this means that for a Tesla that I would want, with the autopilot features and the long range, the price is closer
to $50K, and perhaps even more if there were other upgrades that I was not aware of (I guess that there is a $1K delivery charge
that I have not yet accounted for.)

If I look only at the base model Tesla,
what is the big advantage over a Chevy Bolt, about the same price and range,
or a Toyota plug-in Prius, for which the high end is about the same price, and range is 25 miles pure electric, 660 miles Gasoline?
Autopilot is 3k not 7k. The 5k option is some self driving option that may or may not ever do anything significant.
Yes, I don't think the full self-driving option makes any sense at this point. Why pay thousands for an option you can't use today and may never get to use :confused If it ever comes to fruition and turns out to be a game-changer, you can still buy it later (albeit at an inflated price).

geekpryde
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by geekpryde » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:28 am

A fun car is one of the new things I enjoy in my late 30's. Sad, but true. For me, its a no-brainer. Buy that fun car! To be honest, if I had your means, I would buy one of the "funner" Tesla models. :sharebeer

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:30 am

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am
The car that was promised would be $35k without credits. That's what they are offering -not a $35k car that is even cheaper with credits (although a few may get that). And there really isn't that much maintenance to do on a Tesla. Consumables like brake pads and tires don't need to be done by Tesla, and there really isn't much else to do. The Model 3 had a few teething problems for very early production cars, but other than cosmetic issues, I'm not seeming many complaints about it.

I agree that Tesla's long term future is far from assured, but they do make a very compelling product at a reasonable price point for what it is.
Humans aren't stupid. This 35k Model 3 was announced like 3 years ago and people rightly assumed or were very much hoping to get full federal and state credits. Much of these credits have expired. There is a big difference between 35k minus 7.5k-10k in credits and 35k minus 2k in credits. This is one of the main reasons demand has dropped off.

I don't know where you are looking (or not looking) but must not be on Tesla forums or at True Delta or Consumer Reports. Model 3s have problems. Lots of them.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=260839&newpost=441 ... d#p4418884

Tesla Model 3 Loses CR Recommendation Over Reliability Issues
Owners report problems with paint, trim, and electronics in Consumer Reports' survey
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... ty-issues/
Last edited by matjen on Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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yogithor
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by yogithor » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 am

Your financial status is amazing. No concerns. I am concerned about 3 things:

1) Elon's genius comes with a big dose of instability, and his unwillingness to give up the reigns of the company makes the company unstable.
2) If the company goes bust, there is not currently nor will there be an easily implementable 3rd party repair network.
3) My personal range threshold is a minimum of 500 miles. The 3 is not there yet.

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:53 am

matjen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:30 am
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:23 am
The car that was promised would be $35k without credits. That's what they are offering -not a $35k car that is even cheaper with credits (although a few may get that). And there really isn't that much maintenance to do on a Tesla. Consumables like brake pads and tires don't need to be done by Tesla, and there really isn't much else to do. The Model 3 had a few teething problems for very early production cars, but other than cosmetic issues, I'm not seeming many complaints about it.

I agree that Tesla's long term future is far from assured, but they do make a very compelling product at a reasonable price point for what it is.
Humans aren't stupid. This 35k Model 3 was announced like 3 years ago and people rightly assumed or were very much hoping to get full federal and state credits. Much of these credits have expired. There is a big difference between 35k minus 7.5k-10k in credits and 35k minus 2k in credits. This is one of the main reasons demand has dropped off.

I don't know where you are looking (or not looking) but must not be on Tesla forums or at True Delta or Consumer Reports. Model 3s have problems. Lots of them.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=260839&newpost=441 ... d#p4418884

Tesla Model 3 Loses CR Recommendation Over Reliability Issues
Owners report problems with paint, trim, and electronics in Consumer Reports' survey
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... ty-issues/
I'm not sure why anybody was expecting a tax credit. It was well known even three years ago that Tesla would be approaching the phase out zone soon. Tesla promised a $35k car, and Tesla is delivering a $35k car (albeit later than originally promised). I think a big reason for demand drop off was that there was 3 years of pent up demand that has largely been satisfied now.

Go to literally any car forum, and you will find people complaining of problems. Other than talking about upgrades, there's not much else to do on a car forum relating to a late-model car. In Tesla's case, they do have very real fit and finish problems, but serious problems that prevent the operation of the vehicle are much more rare. Your CR article actually states that drive train problems aren't an issue. The fit and finish and screen issues mentioned in the article are annoying, but they are the type of thing that can be fixed relatively easily and at the convenience of the owner. I know several people who own Teslas, and they all love them.

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:57 am

This is goal post moving (or an incredibly low hurdle to clear...hey our brand new cars don't just die all the time). Unless you can point me to 50k-70K Audis and MB and BMWs that just don't run when they are a year old. That is amazingly uncommon. Consumer Reports even says the screen on the Model 3 is a big issue. The whole car runs off that.

I agree on your pent up demand point. People mistake years of pent up demand with ongoing order flow. They are not the same thing and Tesla hasn't demonstrated the ongoing part.
Last edited by matjen on Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.

Strummer
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Strummer » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:09 pm

We love our Model 3, full stop. It's a great car. I have no reservations about Tesla's continued existence because the company would be bought out by a competitor long before it would have a chance to fail.

That said, if you're interested in an EV, the new Hyundai looks pretty solid on paper, will get you similar range to the base level Model 3, and still qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit. You won't be able to use it very easily for road trips — Tesla's Supercharger network is a huge advantage in this regard — but if you want an EV that will serve as a commuter/weekend trip vehicle, it looks pretty strong.

alfaspider
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:59 pm

matjen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:57 am
This is goal post moving (or an incredibly low hurdle to clear...hey our brand new cars don't just die all the time). Unless you can point me to 50k-70K Audis and MB and BMWs that just don't run when they are a year old. That is amazingly uncommon. Consumer Reports even says the screen on the Model 3 is a big issue. The whole car runs off that.

I agree on your pent up demand point. People mistake years of pent up demand with ongoing order flow. They are not the same thing and Tesla hasn't demonstrated the ongoing part.
Plenty of fancy German cars have had latent issues that can cause catastrophic engine failure. For example, rod bearings in the S65 motor (E90/92 BMW m3): http://eurompire.com/bmw-tech-corner-s6 ... g-failure/. Another example was Porsche IMS bearing failures in mid-00's models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_I ... ring_issue. My Subaru has been trouble free for me, but the motor in it (EJ257) has been known to fail even at low miles from ringlands disintegrating even under normal operation.

MathWizard
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by MathWizard » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm

randomguy wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:38 am
MathWizard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:35 pm
I looked at a model 3. One issue I had with the purported $35K price was that at that price
it would not include the "autopilot". All the hardware was there, but not the software. Last summer I was
told that would be about a $7 to 8K upgrade. Also, the base Model 3 had a 50KW battery pack with an advertized range of
220 miles. The upgrade to a 75KW pack, which increases the range to 330 mile, was $7K at purchase time, or
$8K later.

But this means that for a Tesla that I would want, with the autopilot features and the long range, the price is closer
to $50K, and perhaps even more if there were other upgrades that I was not aware of (I guess that there is a $1K delivery charge
that I have not yet accounted for.)

If I look only at the base model Tesla,
what is the big advantage over a Chevy Bolt, about the same price and range,
or a Toyota plug-in Prius, for which the high end is about the same price, and range is 25 miles pure electric, 660 miles Gasoline?
Autopilot is 3k not 7k. The 5k option is some self driving option that may or may not ever do anything significant.

And yes the car you want is often well above the stripper price that gets advertised. It has been that way in the car business for a long time. What was shocking about the M3 was about how high above the starting price the game started. Reasonable people expected to pay 5-10k more to get the cars equipped how they wanted. The initial M3 prices were more like 15-20k because you were forced to get the pretty much fully loaded model.

I think going 0-60 almost 2x as fast and driving 8x as far on electricity are a couple of pretty clear big advantages of the M3 over a Prius Prime. :) As far as bolt versus tesla, why would you buy the bolt when you can get the tesla? The are slightly different cars and will appeal to different people but I expect for the same price most people would take a M3. I do expect the bolt though to be much cheaper. The MSRPs might be closer but the local dealer has all of the Bolts 5k off.

For most M3 debates is always seems to be I have been buying 25k hondas/toyotas but I really want 50k+ luxury car. Is a Model 3 the way I can justify doing that? The answer for a lot of people seems to be yes:)
I would love a Tesla. I just can't justify the cost. If I had the money, I would certainly go for one, and I think that
Elon Musk has done a lot for the electric car. I thought that GM's EV1 was going to start the revolution, but that
experiment failed for some reason. I suspect GM was lowballing the lease cost, hoping to make and corner the EV market,
but do not know for sure.

The Prius Prime is $27K base model, what I would want is the one with the $33K price.
My daily commute is 5 miles round trip. I sometimes bike it in the summer, so a 25 mile all-electric range would be sufficient.
The think I like about the Prius is that when I want to go on a long trip, I don't have to plan the route, and I don't
have to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger. Wait times are going to get worse as more all-electrics are in the roads. (Are the
chargers different for each type of car? That would be like having to stop at different gas stations for different cars.)

The model 3 is 35K base model, $50K+ for what I want.

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matjen
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by matjen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:39 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:59 pm
matjen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:57 am
This is goal post moving (or an incredibly low hurdle to clear...hey our brand new cars don't just die all the time). Unless you can point me to 50k-70K Audis and MB and BMWs that just don't run when they are a year old. That is amazingly uncommon. Consumer Reports even says the screen on the Model 3 is a big issue. The whole car runs off that.

I agree on your pent up demand point. People mistake years of pent up demand with ongoing order flow. They are not the same thing and Tesla hasn't demonstrated the ongoing part.
Plenty of fancy German cars have had latent issues that can cause catastrophic engine failure. For example, rod bearings in the S65 motor (E90/92 BMW m3): http://eurompire.com/bmw-tech-corner-s6 ... g-failure/. Another example was Porsche IMS bearing failures in mid-00's models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_I ... ring_issue. My Subaru has been trouble free for me, but the motor in it (EJ257) has been known to fail even at low miles from ringlands disintegrating even under normal operation.
Ah, so you found two older performance cars that may have an issue after tens of thousands of miles and likely tracking. I own a 986 Boxster S and am well aware of the IMS issue which is pretty rare and certainly doesn't happen if lubricated under normal circumstances within a year or two...if ever. Having said that, I did have mine replaced when the car was 12 years old. 😃
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alfaspider
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:08 pm

matjen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:39 pm
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:59 pm
matjen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:57 am
This is goal post moving (or an incredibly low hurdle to clear...hey our brand new cars don't just die all the time). Unless you can point me to 50k-70K Audis and MB and BMWs that just don't run when they are a year old. That is amazingly uncommon. Consumer Reports even says the screen on the Model 3 is a big issue. The whole car runs off that.

I agree on your pent up demand point. People mistake years of pent up demand with ongoing order flow. They are not the same thing and Tesla hasn't demonstrated the ongoing part.
Plenty of fancy German cars have had latent issues that can cause catastrophic engine failure. For example, rod bearings in the S65 motor (E90/92 BMW m3): http://eurompire.com/bmw-tech-corner-s6 ... g-failure/. Another example was Porsche IMS bearing failures in mid-00's models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_I ... ring_issue. My Subaru has been trouble free for me, but the motor in it (EJ257) has been known to fail even at low miles from ringlands disintegrating even under normal operation.
Ah, so you found two older performance cars that may have an issue after tens of thousands of miles and likely tracking. I own a 986 Boxster S and am well aware of the IMS issue which is pretty rare and certainly doesn't happen if lubricated under normal circumstances within a year or two...if ever. Having said that, I did have mine replaced when the car was 12 years old. 😃
Ok: Here's another example: BMW F10 battery failure issues:

https://www.bimmershops.com/f10-5-serie ... ery-issues

A lot of early owners had their batteries die in a few months, and due to the fancy software you couldn't just pop in an Autozone battery and be on your way.

investor997
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by investor997 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm

alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:08 pm
Ok: Here's another example: BMW F10 battery failure issues:

https://www.bimmershops.com/f10-5-serie ... ery-issues

A lot of early owners had their batteries die in a few months, and due to the fancy software you couldn't just pop in an Autozone battery and be on your way.
More background on this problem. An excellent read into just how complex modern German cars have become:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... mw-n63-v8/

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by HomerJ » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm

MathWizard wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm
The think I like about the Prius is that when I want to go on a long trip, I don't have to plan the route, and I don'thave to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger.
This is my problem with all-electric cars too...

It seems to me that the newer hybrids make a ton more sense. Commute on electric with zero gas used, but ALSO have a gas engine (or at least a built-in gas generator that charges the battery) so you still have all the freedom of a normal car.

I'm a guy who takes back roads for fun anyway, and I stop when I see something interesting, or a cool place to eat. I would hate to have to plan my trips around superchargers.

Plus, my parents live out in the middle of nowhere, my lake condo is in the middle of nowhere (and the condo parking lot doesn't have any way to charge a car), so an all-electric vehicle just won't work for me.

Seems like there would be a much larger audience for a hybrid electric. (Not talking about the original hybrids - those still burned gas all the time - I like the idea of the new hybrids - 100% electric until the battery runs down, then switch to gas).
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by remi » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:31 pm

You only live once. What is the point of accumulating a $4m net worth, earning a great income, and living well below your means if you aren't going to enjoy some of the fruits of those efforts every now and then? That said, of course only you can decide whether the Tesla model 3 is something that you really want.

What keeps me from being to interested in the Tesla is, as others have said, that the tech is still relatively new, the company's financial foundation seems less than stable volatile, and other, much more established automakers are about to start competing.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by northtexan » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:35 pm

I am not too caught up with Tesla and how owning one is. But one thing I would be concerned with is the cost of electricity and the cost of installing a charging station in your garage. Also the cost of moving the charging unit if you decide to in the future. Many people have mentioned the mechanical work that might be needed and the costs since Teslas can only be serviced in house. I personally would love a high MPG car, since mine get around 18-30 mpg depending on the car. I really enjoy the look of the new Honda Insight. It get 50 MPG as a hybrid and is very attractive.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by squirm » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:43 pm

MathWizard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:35 pm
If I look only at the base model Tesla,
what is the big advantage over a Chevy Bolt, about the same price and range,
or a Toyota plug-in Prius, for which the high end is about the same price, and range is 25 miles pure electric, 660 miles Gasoline?
Supercharger access.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:26 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:00 am
Cycle wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 pm
have you ever tried biking those two miles to the train? i bike to an express bus, it's delightful even when -34F.
FYI, trying to convince people that biking in -34F is no big deal defeats your entire message.

You will convert LESS people this way, as they will discount the rest of your testimony, after hearing that statement. Just a friendly tip. :)
I wear clothing when I go outside in winter. Not a big deal. Not much else I can say, but that 2 miles is the perfect biking distance.

For that distance, definitely more efficient than walking, usually more efficient than driving when parking and traffic lights are considered (since bikes don't need to stop at those)
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:00 am

Fwiw, I have a co-worker who is so cheap he once traded his beater vehicle for a text book. He just ordered his model 3 and they are delivering in to him on 2 weeks. The only add ons he got were heated seats and a little bit bigger battery.

I'd obviously advise biking to your train, but even so you should still just get the model 3 for yourself.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:11 am

Yah, ok, I guess if you live in a place that doesn't experience "real weather", you could bike to your train station 2 miles away. I'm not biking anywhere this morning, down my driveway which still has ice on it and goes down a hill. Looking at my phone, the temp is currently 12F. And there's no train 2 miles away. There's actually nothing but houses and turkeys until I hit the 4 mile point. Some of us aren't hipsters living in back bay, able to hit the trendy coffee shop on our walk into work a block away.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Psyayeayeduck » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:35 am

Every shiny new toy eventually wears out over time.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 am

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm
MathWizard wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm
The think I like about the Prius is that when I want to go on a long trip, I don't have to plan the route, and I don'thave to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger.
This is my problem with all-electric cars too...

It seems to me that the newer hybrids make a ton more sense. Commute on electric with zero gas used, but ALSO have a gas engine (or at least a built-in gas generator that charges the battery) so you still have all the freedom of a normal car.

I'm a guy who takes back roads for fun anyway, and I stop when I see something interesting, or a cool place to eat. I would hate to have to plan my trips around superchargers.

Plus, my parents live out in the middle of nowhere, my lake condo is in the middle of nowhere (and the condo parking lot doesn't have any way to charge a car), so an all-electric vehicle just won't work for me.

Seems like there would be a much larger audience for a hybrid electric. (Not talking about the original hybrids - those still burned gas all the time - I like the idea of the new hybrids - 100% electric until the battery runs down, then switch to gas).
I think plug in hybrids are a good solution for those who often drive long distances, and they will be part of our automotive landscape for some time. They do have a few downsides, however: you have the complication of two separate drive trains, all the maintenance of an internal combustion engine, and you lose the packaging benefits of an EV power train (EVs can put all the weight in the floor and don't have drive train components filling the trunk area, allowing both a "frunk" and a trunk). You also tend to have a fairly anemic internal combustion engine and a fairly small battery, because you have to cram both in.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by ssquared87 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:45 am

investor997 wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm
alfaspider wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:08 pm
Ok: Here's another example: BMW F10 battery failure issues:

https://www.bimmershops.com/f10-5-serie ... ery-issues

A lot of early owners had their batteries die in a few months, and due to the fancy software you couldn't just pop in an Autozone battery and be on your way.
More background on this problem. An excellent read into just how complex modern German cars have become:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... mw-n63-v8/
And yet the b58 inline 6 is damn near bulletproof.

With German cars there’s extreme variation in reliability based on which engine is selected. Generalizing the entire brands reliability or assuming just because it is German is not helpful. A BMW 5 or 7 series with an in-line 6 will likely be fairly trouble free. Those same models with the N63 v8 will have serious issues.

On a reliability standpoint if you’d like to generalize consumer reports ranks Audi and BMW as 7&8 for reliability. Nissan and Honda are 14&15 while Mercedes is 17. I don’t think country of origin really has anything to do with it, except for american brands which are all at the bottom of the list (ford being the best amongst them at 18th place)

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by HomerJ » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:53 am

alfaspider wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 am
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm
MathWizard wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm
The think I like about the Prius is that when I want to go on a long trip, I don't have to plan the route, and I don'thave to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger.
This is my problem with all-electric cars too...

It seems to me that the newer hybrids make a ton more sense. Commute on electric with zero gas used, but ALSO have a gas engine (or at least a built-in gas generator that charges the battery) so you still have all the freedom of a normal car.

I'm a guy who takes back roads for fun anyway, and I stop when I see something interesting, or a cool place to eat. I would hate to have to plan my trips around superchargers.

Plus, my parents live out in the middle of nowhere, my lake condo is in the middle of nowhere (and the condo parking lot doesn't have any way to charge a car), so an all-electric vehicle just won't work for me.

Seems like there would be a much larger audience for a hybrid electric. (Not talking about the original hybrids - those still burned gas all the time - I like the idea of the new hybrids - 100% electric until the battery runs down, then switch to gas).
I think plug in hybrids are a good solution for those who often drive long distances, and they will be part of our automotive landscape for some time. They do have a few downsides, however: you have the complication of two separate drive trains, all the maintenance of an internal combustion engine, and you lose the packaging benefits of an EV power train (EVs can put all the weight in the floor and don't have drive train components filling the trunk area, allowing both a "frunk" and a trunk). You also tend to have a fairly anemic internal combustion engine and a fairly small battery, because you have to cram both in.
You make good points... Are there any plug-in hybrids that just have a built in gas generator?

It does seem weird that they have two separate drive trains and an internal combustion engine. Why not just make a hybrid electric vehicle that can recharge itself by burning gas from a gas tank. That doesn't seem that complicated mechanically, and gives you the best of the both worlds.

Pure electric driving for a certain number of miles with zero gas used, but if you're on a long trip, the gas generator can kick on and keep the battery charged.

Maybe two batteries. Once one runs down to zero, switch over to the other to run the car, and then the generator can start re-charging the first depleted one, while you run on the second one.

I guess batteries get used up faster than they can be recharged. :(
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:01 am

HomerJ wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:53 am
alfaspider wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 am
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:18 pm
MathWizard wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:30 pm
The think I like about the Prius is that when I want to go on a long trip, I don't have to plan the route, and I don'thave to stop for 30 minutes at a supercharger.
This is my problem with all-electric cars too...

It seems to me that the newer hybrids make a ton more sense. Commute on electric with zero gas used, but ALSO have a gas engine (or at least a built-in gas generator that charges the battery) so you still have all the freedom of a normal car.

I'm a guy who takes back roads for fun anyway, and I stop when I see something interesting, or a cool place to eat. I would hate to have to plan my trips around superchargers.

Plus, my parents live out in the middle of nowhere, my lake condo is in the middle of nowhere (and the condo parking lot doesn't have any way to charge a car), so an all-electric vehicle just won't work for me.

Seems like there would be a much larger audience for a hybrid electric. (Not talking about the original hybrids - those still burned gas all the time - I like the idea of the new hybrids - 100% electric until the battery runs down, then switch to gas).
I think plug in hybrids are a good solution for those who often drive long distances, and they will be part of our automotive landscape for some time. They do have a few downsides, however: you have the complication of two separate drive trains, all the maintenance of an internal combustion engine, and you lose the packaging benefits of an EV power train (EVs can put all the weight in the floor and don't have drive train components filling the trunk area, allowing both a "frunk" and a trunk). You also tend to have a fairly anemic internal combustion engine and a fairly small battery, because you have to cram both in.
You make good points... Are there any plug-in hybrids that just have a built in gas generator?

It does seem weird that they have two separate drive trains and an internal combustion engine. Why not just make a hybrid electric vehicle that can recharge itself by burning gas from a gas tank. That doesn't seem that complicated mechanically, and gives you the best of the both worlds.

Pure electric driving for a certain number of miles with zero gas used, but if you're on a long trip, the gas generator can kick on and keep the battery charged.

Maybe two batteries. Once one runs down to zero, switch over to the other to run the car, and then the generator can start re-charging the first depleted one, while you run on the second one.

I guess batteries get used up faster than they can be recharged. :(
I believe the BMW i3 uses the gasoline motor as a generator rather than driving the wheels. The problem is that it's not enough to fully power the car when the battery is depleted:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... wer-engine

Two batteries vs one isn't really important. The issue is aggregate battery capacity vs power generation capacity.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by nepats » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:56 am

As a Model S owner, I would say wait until all the dust settles from the flurry of announcements recently, esp if you are ordering a "base" Model 3. I have driven Model 3, though it drives great I didn't like the interior coming from Model S. Sometimes, the little things matter like door handles, auto trunk etc..I love small/fast cars, but was never tempted to buy one after I saw it in person. The interior needs improvement, IMHO

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by DanMahowny » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:22 pm

Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:35 am
Every shiny new toy eventually wears out over time.
True. Also, many, many Model 3s have been sitting in the desert, covered with thick dust and sand for long periods of time as demand has plummeted.

The shiny new toy may not be so shiny upon delivery.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:30 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:22 pm
Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:35 am
Every shiny new toy eventually wears out over time.
True. Also, many, many Model 3s have been sitting in the desert, covered with thick dust and sand for long periods of time as demand has plummeted.

The shiny new toy may not be so shiny upon delivery.
These sorts of stories are mostly anti-Tesla propaganda. As of YE 2018, Tesla had about 3,000 Model 3s in inventory:

https://electrek.co/2018/12/31/tesla-mo ... entory-us/

That sounds like a lot, but it's not when you consider that 3,000 cars is less than a week of production. It's true that most of the backlog of pre-orders has mostly been run through, but the Model 3 is just about to start selling in Europe and China, so they still have decent amount of pent of demand in non-U.S. markets.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by visualguy » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:43 pm

ssquared87 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:45 am
And yet the b58 inline 6 is damn near bulletproof.

With German cars there’s extreme variation in reliability based on which engine is selected. Generalizing the entire brands reliability or assuming just because it is German is not helpful. A BMW 5 or 7 series with an in-line 6 will likely be fairly trouble free. Those same models with the N63 v8 will have serious issues.

On a reliability standpoint if you’d like to generalize consumer reports ranks Audi and BMW as 7&8 for reliability. Nissan and Honda are 14&15 while Mercedes is 17. I don’t think country of origin really has anything to do with it, except for american brands which are all at the bottom of the list (ford being the best amongst them at 18th place)
You're right about the BMW B58 engine, although a naturally-aspirated Toyota V6, for example, should be less headache with high mileage.

What I would say about current German luxury cars is that if you pick one of the proven ones that have been on the market for a while, and with the right engine, you should be ok, but they are still not workhorses... If you put a lot of mileage on your cars and/or drive them in harsh conditions, look elsewhere for something more durable and more easily fixable. On the other hand, if you don't drive much and don't subject the car to harsh conditions, they are a fine choice, and can last quite a few years without significant problems in that case.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by deskjockey » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:07 am

Cycle wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:26 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:00 am
Cycle wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 pm
have you ever tried biking those two miles to the train? i bike to an express bus, it's delightful even when -34F.
FYI, trying to convince people that biking in -34F is no big deal defeats your entire message.

You will convert LESS people this way, as they will discount the rest of your testimony, after hearing that statement. Just a friendly tip. :)
I wear clothing when I go outside in winter. Not a big deal. Not much else I can say, but that 2 miles is the perfect biking distance.

For that distance, definitely more efficient than walking, usually more efficient than driving when parking and traffic lights are considered (since bikes don't need to stop at those)
Um, last I checked bikes are required to obey traffic lights... and stop signs... and all other traffic rules. The fact that you're choosing to blow past a red light in a bike isn't an advantage, it's you being just as big a jerk as the guy in the car next to you doing the same thing. As for this digression about biking instead of driving, well... you certainly haven't convinced me.

Getting back to the OP's topic, I think the issue of whether you can afford it is clearly settled--you can, and then some. Definitely give it a test drive to see if you like it, but weigh everyone's comments here carefully. I was initially very curious about the Model 3, but have now ruled it out for our next car because of many of the issues raised here--the touchscreen, fit and finish, practicality, and the big question mark that is Tesla's future under Musk. Clearly, not everyone weighs these factors like I do, so it's all up to you. Whatever you do, I hope you end up happy with your choice and have no (major) regrets.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Cycle » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:19 am

deskjockey wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:07 am
Um, last I checked bikes are required to obey traffic lights... and stop signs... and all other traffic rules.
This morning myself and another cyclist stopped at a red light 3 ft from a Minneapolis police cruiser. There was no cross traffic. A pedestrian, the other cyclist, and I safely crossed the intersection against the red. While the Idaho stop isn't legal persay, it is condoned by law enforcement here. In downtown ABQ they actually eliminated all red lights, switching to four way stop signs, a smart move.

I think one would get used to the touch screen, very quickly. I think about when I had by black berry circa 2006 and how I thought the iPhone wasn't worth it since it didn't have a keyboard. They even put a little vibrator in it to give you tactile feedback when you hit the keyboard. Ten years later I don't even use the vibration function on my phone.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by alfaspider » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:43 am

visualguy wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:43 pm
ssquared87 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:45 am
And yet the b58 inline 6 is damn near bulletproof.

With German cars there’s extreme variation in reliability based on which engine is selected. Generalizing the entire brands reliability or assuming just because it is German is not helpful. A BMW 5 or 7 series with an in-line 6 will likely be fairly trouble free. Those same models with the N63 v8 will have serious issues.

On a reliability standpoint if you’d like to generalize consumer reports ranks Audi and BMW as 7&8 for reliability. Nissan and Honda are 14&15 while Mercedes is 17. I don’t think country of origin really has anything to do with it, except for american brands which are all at the bottom of the list (ford being the best amongst them at 18th place)
You're right about the BMW B58 engine, although a naturally-aspirated Toyota V6, for example, should be less headache with high mileage.

What I would say about current German luxury cars is that if you pick one of the proven ones that have been on the market for a while, and with the right engine, you should be ok
I'd say this goes with most cars. Even the most reliable companies sometimes release unreliable cars due to unusual powertrain configurations, new model teething issues, or a simple manufacturing issue. The variance model-to-model can be huge.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by stoptothink » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:46 am

deskjockey wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:07 am
Cycle wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:26 pm
HomerJ wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:00 am
Cycle wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:45 pm
have you ever tried biking those two miles to the train? i bike to an express bus, it's delightful even when -34F.
FYI, trying to convince people that biking in -34F is no big deal defeats your entire message.

You will convert LESS people this way, as they will discount the rest of your testimony, after hearing that statement. Just a friendly tip. :)
I wear clothing when I go outside in winter. Not a big deal. Not much else I can say, but that 2 miles is the perfect biking distance.

For that distance, definitely more efficient than walking, usually more efficient than driving when parking and traffic lights are considered (since bikes don't need to stop at those)
Um, last I checked bikes are required to obey traffic lights... and stop signs... and all other traffic rules. The fact that you're choosing to blow past a red light in a bike isn't an advantage, it's you being just as big a jerk as the guy in the car next to you doing the same thing. As for this digression about biking instead of driving, well... you certainly haven't convinced me.
As someone who has bike commuted in SoCal, Houston, and now Utah: I have always followed all traffic laws and biking was still often faster. With a bike lane, you aren't stuck behind dozens of other cars at a light and parking takes a fraction of the time; if it is a moderate commute, that makes a lot of difference. I now have a <1/2 mile walk to work. I live in a development with about 100 townhomes and about half of my neighbors have the same employer. I believe I am the only person that does not drive. With our insane employee parking, there is no way that a single one of my neighbors spends less time commuting than I do.

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:31 pm

Please stay on-topic, which is about the Tesla Model 3.
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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Afty » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 pm

I posted earlier in this thread with some pretty good reasons not to buy a Model 3. Well, I couldn’t even convince myself. I ordered a long range AWD model, and it’s due to be delivered on Monday. :D

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Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by niceguy7376 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:18 pm

Afty wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 pm
I posted earlier in this thread with some pretty good reasons not to buy a Model 3. Well, I couldn’t even convince myself. I ordered a long range AWD model, and it’s due to be delivered on Monday. :D
So now you NEED to post reasons of buying a Model 3 .

Afty
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by Afty » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:17 am

niceguy7376 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:18 pm
Afty wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:50 pm
I posted earlier in this thread with some pretty good reasons not to buy a Model 3. Well, I couldn’t even convince myself. I ordered a long range AWD model, and it’s due to be delivered on Monday. :D
So now you NEED to post reasons of buying a Model 3 .
If you insist. :)

1) They're fast and fun to drive! The acceleration numbers are impressive, but they feel even faster because of instant torque from the electric motors. My current car is an Infiniti G35, not a slow car by any means, but it felt like a slug after my Model 3 test drive.

2) The tech is really impressive. Navigation system, the ability to set all kinds of options, even just the responsiveness of the touchscreen. In other cars the touchscreen is like something from 1995; in a Tesla it's as easy to use and responsive as my smartphone.

3) Autopilot is also impressive. I could see it being a huge benefit on road trips or just when sitting in traffic.

4) My work provides free charging as a perk. I'm currently paying between $120 and $150/mo for gas, and that cost will totally go away. It's a non-trivial saving.

Why not a different electric car? I like the drivetrain of a Model 3 with RWD or AWD. I don't like FWD cars because they understeer and scramble for traction. Also I like the size and layout of the Model 3 since it's basically the same as my Infiniti. Also the Tesla Supercharger network seems to be more important than you'd think, as people with other EVs report difficulty finding chargers while on road trips. Finally, the Tesla was designed to be a great EV whereas many other EVs were designed to be "compliance cars" -- cars necessary to meet emissions requirements but that the companies don't actually want to sell. They do the bare minimum to some turn some existing car into an EV. I don't want a car like that.

KeepItSimple78
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:03 pm
Location: Louisiana

Re: Talk me in/out of $35k Tesla Model 3

Post by KeepItSimple78 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:44 pm

My understanding is that the Model 3 is expensive to own and reliability is suspect.

Secondly, what part of the country do you live in? If you live in the northeast or midwest, extreme cold can lower the efficiency of the battery which can lower the range and result in more charging related expenses.

Consider the comments here and do your own research. If you're satisfied enough to go through with the purchase and can afford it, go for it.
Avid reader of personal finance/investing literature; however, no formal training in this area. My comments are always well-intended, and most often well-informed.

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