Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

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Godot
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Godot » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:03 pm

Several months ago, Vanguard had an all-weekend outage to upgrade their website. Well, I don't find their upgrade to be much of an upgrade. Information is more difficult to find and less user friendly in my opinion. I have migrated most of my portfolio viewing to my phone because I find their Vanguard App to be usable while their website is just difficult.



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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by bengal22 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:06 pm

I can't see where my vanguard web site has changed. Works OK for me.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Mike Scott » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:06 pm

I can find what I need. I don't really have any feelings about it either way.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by livesoft » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 pm

I've tried to reduce interactions with the Vanguard web site to a minimum. I think a poor web site may help one "stay-the-course" because they cannot easily change anything.

I know we have one single fund in a taxable account at Vanguard that gets no transactions and the dividends are automatically sent to our checking account. There is no need to login nor look at the web site to do anything with that account except maybe once a year to retrieve the 1099-DIV. There is no 1099-B because there are no sell transactions.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by obgraham » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:14 pm

I find when I deal with a company thru their "app" I often have to change the way I do stuff to fit with their ways.
But when I simpy go to their website, it is usually easier to use my own ways.

Vanguard is like that. So is Ally.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by GerryL » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:41 pm

obgraham wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:14 pm
I find when I deal with a company thru their "app" I often have to change the way I do stuff to fit with their ways.
But when I simpy go to their website, it is usually easier to use my own ways.

Vanguard is like that. So is Ally.
Frankly, I find that MOST websites and programs are designed to do things the business's way or the programmer's way. I say this as someone who spent years with software and website developers who never actually used the services on the software or website they developed. This included a stint doing software testing. (Actual interaction. Me: "When you click this button the application hangs." Programmer: "Doesn't matter. No one is going to click that button.")

I'm used to learning how to figure out the website that someone thought would be intuitive … and then relearn when someone else decides to change it. I have learned how to do what I need to do on Vanguard site. Or call them if I can't.

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LinusP
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by LinusP » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

It seems to me like they reworked part of the website while leaving much the same. Maybe this is part of a migration strategy, but I'd rather it be one way or the other. Here's the old and new, as far as I can tell:
  • My Accounts - Balances & Holdings -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab
  • My Accounts - Cost Basis -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab - Cost basis link
  • My Accounts - Dividends & Capital Gains -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab - Dividends & capital gains link
    etc., etc.
You'll notice that there's often an extra click to get to the new stuff - not sure about others, but that's the main thing that annoys me. I'm guessing that they'll remove a lot of the duplication at some point, and in the process remove that extra click somehow.

I actually find much of the new stuff easier to read (though it could still be improved), but having the old and new exist simultaneously makes the overall experience much less intuitive. Just my $0.02...

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:08 pm

I dislike the new Vanguard website more than I disliked the old Vanguard website. Whether I dislike it more than you depends on whether you're Tubbs or Crockett.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by AlphaLess » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:29 pm

Vanguard has a new website?
Never noticed it.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by khh » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:50 am

I give Fidelity an "A" for its website. Vanguard and Chase get a B-.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by 02nz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am

OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:01 am

I’m able to do what I need to do on VG website without difficulty. If you have a Boglehead portfolio, what’s the problem?
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by AlohaJoe » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:33 am

miamivice wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 pm
Well, I don't find their upgrade to be much of an upgrade. Information is more difficult to find and less user friendly in my opinion
I find the new website to be easy to use and have no issues with it. I've never struggled to find information when I needed it or been unable to complete a task I wanted to do.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by SGM » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:48 am

The Vanguard website is fine for my needs. I have automated a lot of transactions.

Yesterday I was on the Charles Schwab website for a relative and it appeared to be designed to be obscure to the benefit of the company not the individual investor.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by nodenuff2 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:09 am

+1 to SGM. Getting info from Schwab is like pulling teeth. Vanguard is better than that .
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by wander » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:20 am

I have no problem with Vanguard at all. It just works. I like it shows me at the right spot how much I has contributed to IRA so far for this year and last year. That makes the contribution so simple and straight forward.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:49 am

02nz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am
OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by nolesrule » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:33 am

LinusP wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

You'll notice that there's often an extra click to get to the new stuff
This is a symptom of mobile first design, where some of the things you can do with input devices (mouse / keyboard) for interaction don't exist on a small touchscreen. So instead.... extra clicks.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:38 am

02nz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am
OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?
Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy
+1 Words matter. Grammar too. The meaning of this thread title actually is misleading. Thanks for pointing this out. :D

PS....to the point that is implied by OP, no, I actually am fine with the new website. I can find what I need easily.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by fourwheelcycle » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:49 am

I do notice when Vanguard makes changes to their website, but it usually doesn't bother me. Mostly I just log on, which takes me right to our account overview, then I look at our balances page, perhaps make a transaction, then leave. I really like the feature that lets me aggregate all of our outside banking and employer-based retirement accounts on our Vanguard balances page.

Last year, for the first time, I learned how to poke a sequence of buttons to ask them to issue QCD checks on my IRA balance. Once a year I poke buttons in TurboTax to download my Vanguard tax forms.

That's about all I do at the Vanguard web site and it works fine for me.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by midareff » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:50 am

I have no feelings about it. It is serviceable enough for my rare need to rebalance something.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:54 am

It's better than my health insurer's web site. It's good enough. How much do I really need to do there?
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by stan1 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:58 am

I am happy with Vanguard's website. There is a lot of information to look through (but that's better than the alternative of not having information available in order to make the web site look cleaner). The account maintenance and settings pages are comprehensive and there are few reasons someone needs to call Vanguard for administrative support. This lowers the chance of human error and helps keep expenses lower. I've spent the time on the site to familiarize myself with what's available.
Last edited by stan1 on Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Lynette » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:58 am

It is called change :D I don't waste too much emotional energy on dealing with websites. Google helps. I just ¨googled". "How do i change cost basis on vanguard/fidelity¨. I found step-by-step instructions for both of these queries.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by beyou » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:05 am

Changes I noticed were made well before the recent all-weekend scheduled upgrade. Nothing apparent changed that weekend, probably only the backend changed.

That said, changes were made well before that, and they show just how poor is the quality if the Vanguard IT group. New design reverts to old design suddenly after one or two clicks. Why ? Fortunately I prefer the old design, but this does not appear to be intentional. Given this has been in place a long while, just sloppy and clearly unimportant to them. I hope the backend is not sloppy. That is all that really matters, that your transactions are processed correctly.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Nummerkins » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:16 am

If there's one thing I've learned about this forum it's that Bogleheads are a fickle bunch and love to complain about the tiniest changes :wink:

The Vanguard website lets me buy/sell with no issue. It's a little hard to find things but overall it does what I need. I don't require research tools or anything else -- just the fund info. I do dislike the mobile-first design with copious amounts of useless white space and the thin fonts -- it hurts my eyes. Also, the mish-mash of old and new designs -- It's like Windows 10 where they never quite finished redoing everything before moving on to another refresh.

Personally I find the Fidelity site more confusing and dated. That being said, they are revamping it piece-by-piece. I just got a new money transfer screen last night.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Steelersfan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:28 am

It's OK with me - minor change with no loss of serviceability for my needs.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by targ » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:36 am

02nz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am
OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy
+1, and thank you for not letting me be the only one who hears fingernails on a chalkboard when I read that.

But as to OP's question; I agree the website is not as good as before. Similarly, I utterly despise the forced migration to brokerage accounts and the additional clutter that came with it. My simple, easy-to-follow mutual fund statements have become significantly more cluttered, complicated, and confounding.

But then, I am an old fogey who doesn't like change (or bad grammar).
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by tibbitts » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:55 am

I didn't even notice it had changed, and I log on almost every day. All my accounts are still MF accounts if that matters, none are brokerage accounts.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by jebmke » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:01 am

I haven't noticed a change. But I only go in once a month normally.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by mhc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:20 am

Worked perfectly fine for me. Over the last week I have downloaded my tax forms, bought a new fund, checked my balances, ....

I have not noticed much of a change at all over the last few years.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by nisiprius » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:28 am

I dislike the parts that have changed. Guess what? I use the website on a desktop computer with I think 2556x1440 resolution. Presumably all the people that used to moan about Vanguard's website design looking a decade old are happy now. And presumably the people who use a web browser on a cell phone with less resolution than a 1984 Macintosh like it.

The Big Lie is that so-called adaptive design actually adapts to all screen sizes. It would be great if you could please everyone with a one-design-fits-all-sizes approach, but since actually you can't, you shouldn't pretend that you can.

Of course the irony (get off my lawn!) is that as originally designed, HTML really was adaptive and was intended to express meaning, not appearance... and was expected to reflow gracefully as needed regardless of screen resolution. Then the artistic types got involved and began abusing HTML tables in order to force a desired presentation, and then there was CSS, and, well, you know, we used to have wonderful music but today it's noise, I tell you, just noise, and have you seen the way they dress...

Must learn to keep my postings under 280 characters...
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by Stinky » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:42 am

Vanguard’s website is just fine. Gives me what I need.

My only interactions with Fidelity are through the NetBenefit site. I find that site to be very clunky and difficult to navigate.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by jyoung » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:49 am

Personally I love the Vanguard website and its simplicity. My situation and investment plan is pretty straight forward. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, those things tend to make me just start second guessing everything. I even hate ETFs because I have to choose a couple extra things to buy them... But that's just me, I'd rather focus my energies on other things. :happy

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:54 am

I find Vanguard's website to be adequate for what I need. I still haven't figured out what changed, if anything, over the last year. I think Vanguard's website is less confusing than Schwab's. I have never had accounts with Fidelity, Merrill Edge, TD Ameritrade, Wells Fargo, or T Rowe Price, so I can't comment on their website designs.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by linenfort » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:56 am

I dislike the changes, too.
nolesrule wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:33 am
This is a symptom of mobile first design, where some of the things you can do with input devices (mouse / keyboard) for interaction don't exist on a small touchscreen. So instead.... extra clicks.
+1

I’m grateful that at least there are ways (extra clicks) to see the old display. Things haven’t gotten as bad as the bank sites that put a big mobile-optimized screen on your desktop, with icons that don’t make clear whether they link to “contact us” or feedback.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by renue74 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:08 am

I design sites. I agree that the programmer and/or upper management conundrum is real.

We'll spend so much time developing wire frames and user personas to design a site and then when it gets down to the development, I find that developers will typically find the easier way out, which may not be intuitive as the mockups. Also, when upper management gets their hand in design, things will begin to suck.

As others say..."I've learned to deal with the site and get the things done I need."

This is the case with all usability. People will complain for so long, but they still get things done. They may not like it, but they use it.

It only is a problem when people absolutely can't use a website and start dropping as customers that things change. (Notice I said "things change," meaning they may not change for the good. Just because you're redesigning a website doesn't make it better than the existing one.)

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by vandelay » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:18 am

I always dislike website's after a redesign, mostly because I am used to the old design. After a while I get used to it and usually wind up liking the new design.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by SpringMan » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:31 am

Most recently the pie chart graph showing target asset allocation desired does not work because it wants to run Macromedia Flash. This is in the Portfolio Watch tool. By clicking and allowing Flash to run, it works. Does not HTML-5 remove the need for Flash?
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by gasdoc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:37 am

It lets me do what I need to do. No problems.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by cadreamer2015 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:42 am

I haven't noticed any changes. I have no problems doing the things I need/want to do. So if there was a change to Vanguard's website it is neither better nor worse from my point of view.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by montanagirl » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:45 am

I miss being able to see most recent activity on the landing page. I realize there are tabs for everything but don't like having to hunt around to make sure a transaction went through as planned.

But I'm okay with it more or less.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by walker46 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:45 am

It took me awhile to reacquire the muscle memory in my fingers so I could get to where I wanted to efficiently without thinking. But I’m good with it now.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by StandingRock » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:47 am

renue74 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:08 am
I design sites. I agree that the programmer and/or upper management conundrum is real.

We'll spend so much time developing wire frames and user personas to design a site and then when it gets down to the development, I find that developers will typically find the easier way out, which may not be intuitive as the mockups. Also, when upper management gets their hand in design, things will begin to suck.

As others say..."I've learned to deal with the site and get the things done I need."

This is the case with all usability. People will complain for so long, but they still get things done. They may not like it, but they use it.

It only is a problem when people absolutely can't use a website and start dropping as customers that things change. (Notice I said "things change," meaning they may not change for the good. Just because you're redesigning a website doesn't make it better than the existing one.)
When I started my career in the mid 1990's, I would actually sit with end users and watch them work for hours. Much of that time they were interacting with my application but not always. I would watch which screens loaded slowly. I would watch what they did the most and what they did the least. I would watch for manual steps and interactions that could be eliminated or streamlined. I would ask them what they thought could improve or what they needed to change. I would listen. Then I would go write code.

Now you have rooms full of project managers, business analysts, and scrum masters who treat the developers like a production line in a widget factory, rooms full of developers from third world countries (onshore and in Hyderbad), managers who have no actual experience in software development and speak in buzzwords, "UX Architects" fresh out of a two year program at some random Art School, consultants selling "magic pills" like Agile (and every branch of it) and Kaizen etc., mid and upper level management with an MBA but no real background with any technology stack, the application of it, nor the particular industry in which they have wormed their way into.

What could possibly go wrong?


But anyway, I don't mind their website so much. It is simple and cheap. Sound familiar?

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:49 am

If I cared about the website as much as I care about the free and $2 trade commissions, I would have switched to Fidelity years ago.

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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by GrowthSeeker » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:54 am

LinusP wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm
It seems to me like they reworked part of the website while leaving much the same. Maybe this is part of a migration strategy, but I'd rather it be one way or the other. Here's the old and new, as far as I can tell:
  • My Accounts - Balances & Holdings -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab
  • My Accounts - Cost Basis -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab - Cost basis link
  • My Accounts - Dividends & Capital Gains -> My Accounts - Account Overview - Holdings tab - Dividends & capital gains link
    etc., etc.
You'll notice that there's often an extra click to get to the new stuff - not sure about others, but that's the main thing that annoys me. I'm guessing that they'll remove a lot of the duplication at some point, and in the process remove that extra click somehow.

I actually find much of the new stuff easier to read (though it could still be improved), but having the old and new exist simultaneously makes the overall experience much less intuitive. Just my $0.02...
For every one of the first descriptions above (the old way), that's what I still have when I log in.
Maybe it wasn't changed for everyone???
Edit: I'm using laptop, not mobile app
Last edited by GrowthSeeker on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by jebmke » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:56 am

montanagirl wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:45 am
I miss being able to see most recent activity on the landing page. I realize there are tabs for everything but don't like having to hunt around to make sure a transaction went through as planned.

But I'm okay with it more or less.
There must be different sites for different users. My landing page shows the most recent activity in the lower left portion.
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Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:58 am

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (website).
02nz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am
OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy
Thanks, I fixed the thread title.
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gasdoc
Posts: 1745
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as me?

Post by gasdoc » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:07 am

LadyGeek wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:58 am
This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (website).
02nz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:52 am
OK, I'm going to be the grammar Nazi: It should read: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Unless you're asking whether we dislike the website as much as we dislike you. :happy
Thanks, I fixed the thread title.
:D

Gnirk
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 am
Location: Western Washington

Re: Do others dislike Vanguard's new website as much as I?

Post by Gnirk » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:03 pm

I hate it...less information at a glance, need to navigate two or three times to see information that was available all in one place before. However, if I click on something in investments first, then click on balances and holdings, the old format appears. Guess they never heard of “ if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

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