Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

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ASpenderInRecovery
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Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ASpenderInRecovery » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm

For those gearheads our there on the site can someone help exlain why Consumer Reports is rating the 2019 Honda Pilot substantially lower than Toyota SUVs on reliability?

We are evaluating a 2019 Honda Passport for my wife which as I undertand it is a shortened body, taller stance, different styled spinoff of the Honda Pilot platform. In referencing Consumer Reports they call out the Toyota Highlander and Rav4 as having “far above average” predicted reliability while the Pilot is given two notches below “Average” predicted reliability.

We’re also considering the 2019 Rav4 as well but my wife prefers the ride, styling, hushed interior, layout of the Honda Passport. My concern is the stated lower predicted reliability since we want this thing to last for many years.

Thanks for your feedback and insight.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by JamesSFO » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:23 pm

I've got issues with my 2019 Pilot and Honda America's attitude is that I can go f* myself... Dealer is trying to navigate with no success. I'm now in the never again a Honda camp...

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by radiowave » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:25 pm

We bought a 2018 Honda Pilot Dec 2017, now has 21K miles, perfect reliability to date. I have read about some issues with the 8 gear transmission, I have the 6 gear and not one issue. The engine does not have a turbo charger and does not have the fuel/oil problems that has plagued the CR-V.

We upgraded from a 2004 CR-V that had 174K miles and only thing that went wrong other that normal wear items was the AC compressor. The pilot is a bigger vehicle than the CR-V but rides a bit higher. We like it for long trips because the front seats are bigger and more comfortable.
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by radiowave » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:25 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:23 pm
I've got issues with my 2019 Pilot and Honda America's attitude is that I can go f* myself... Dealer is trying to navigate with no success. I'm now in the never again a Honda camp...
What problems are you having?
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ASpenderInRecovery
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ASpenderInRecovery » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:27 pm

JamesSFO wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:23 pm
I've got issues with my 2019 Pilot and Honda America's attitude is that I can go f* myself... Dealer is trying to navigate with no success. I'm now in the never again a Honda camp...
Sorry to hear that. I’m curious, what are your issues?

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by fortfun » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:31 pm

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
For those gearheads our there on the site can someone help exlain why Consumer Reports is rating the 2019 Honda Pilot substantially lower than Toyota SUVs on reliability?

We are evaluating a 2019 Honda Passport for my wife which as I undertand it is a shortened body, taller stance, different styled spinoff of the Honda Pilot platform. In referencing Consumer Reports they call out the Toyota Highlander and Rav4 as having “far above average” predicted reliability while the Pilot is given two notches below “Average” predicted reliability.

We’re also considering the 2019 Rav4 as well but my wife prefers the ride, styling, hushed interior, layout of the Honda Passport. My concern is the stated lower predicted reliability since we want this thing to last for many years.

Thanks for your feedback and insight.
We've got a 10 year Highlander with 100k+ miles. ZERO issues so far and I've only changed the oil/filters every 10k (none of the other recommended maintenance). Same with my Tacoma. I'm sold on Toyota--Only wished I'd started buying them 30 years ago. Think of all the money I would have saved.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by JamesSFO » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:39 pm

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:27 pm
JamesSFO wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:23 pm
I've got issues with my 2019 Pilot and Honda America's attitude is that I can go f* myself... Dealer is trying to navigate with no success. I'm now in the never again a Honda camp...
Sorry to hear that. I’m curious, what are your issues?
Mine has to do with the computer systems and they've replaced it once and now are claiming it is operating as intended. I'm pretty PO'ed.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Time2Quit » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:41 pm

I don’t think you can make generalization that Toyota is better than Honda and vice versa. I own both brands and have for the past 30 years. Both are good and both have had their share of problems depending on the model.

I never buy a model that has a new major feature added. i.e new transmission, new engine, cylinder deactivation, etc.

I do agree that Honda North America customer service is not very good.
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor." --Seneca

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msi
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by msi » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:00 pm

The Pilot and Passport have average predicted reliability (3/5), not two notches below average.

Honda's reliability in general has declined in the Consumer Reports rankings, though. Used to near the top, now ranked #15, with Acura at #13. Sure, cars in general have become more reliable over time, and the differences may be much less than they once were, but that's quite a fall.

It's too bad really because I've only had good experiences in the past with Honda/Acura.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Teague » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:04 pm

msi wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:00 pm
The Pilot and Passport have average predicted reliability (3/5), not two notches below average.

Honda's reliability in general has declined in the Consumer Reports rankings, though. Used to near the top, now ranked #15, with Acura at #13. Sure, cars in general have become more reliable over time, and the differences may be much less than they once were, but that's quite a fall.

It's too bad really because I've only had good experiences in the past with Honda/Acura.
I think much the same could be said of Consumer Reports.
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msi
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by msi » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:42 pm

Teague wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:04 pm
msi wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:00 pm
The Pilot and Passport have average predicted reliability (3/5), not two notches below average.

Honda's reliability in general has declined in the Consumer Reports rankings, though. Used to near the top, now ranked #15, with Acura at #13. Sure, cars in general have become more reliable over time, and the differences may be much less than they once were, but that's quite a fall.

It's too bad really because I've only had good experiences in the past with Honda/Acura.
I think much the same could be said of Consumer Reports.
You know, I've been researching my next car, and there are plenty I'm otherwise interested in with 2/5 or 3/5 reliability ratings from Consumer Reports. But like the OP, I want the car to last a while, and it doesn't seem worth the risk, particularly with Honda products. The oil dilution issue with the CR-V and the way they've chosen to handle it, as well as the transmission issues with the 6-cylinder TLX have really turned me off from the company.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by catalina355 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:51 pm

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
For those gearheads our there on the site can someone help exlain why Consumer Reports is rating the 2019 Honda Pilot substantially lower than Toyota SUVs on reliability?

We are evaluating a 2019 Honda Passport for my wife which as I undertand it is a shortened body, taller stance, different styled spinoff of the Honda Pilot platform. In referencing Consumer Reports they call out the Toyota Highlander and Rav4 as having “far above average” predicted reliability while the Pilot is given two notches below “Average” predicted reliability.

We’re also considering the 2019 Rav4 as well but my wife prefers the ride, styling, hushed interior, layout of the Honda Passport. My concern is the stated lower predicted reliability since we want this thing to last for many years.

Thanks for your feedback and insight.
Reliability is one aspect, safety is another. The Toyota Highlander is an older design.

https://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehic ... r-suv/2019

The 2020 Highlander should be available this year and will be based on the new TNGA platform. Crash safety will be up to date, along with Apple CarPlay and other features.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ASpenderInRecovery » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 am

Thanks all for the replies. So do we attribute Honda’s lower reliability to the recent oil dilution issue and transmission issues referenced above? Or a an actual lower build quality?

Also, do you all consider the top 15-20 Consumer Reports rated models in a segment as different levels of good? By their own definition the top 20 or so vehicles in each segment are still labeled “Recommended” leading me to believe they are all good.

Forgive me for the continued referencing of Consumer Reports but since I’m not mechanically inclined I tend to lean on CR for vehicle guidance when perhaps I should be referencing other Auto-specific publications.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Time2Quit » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:01 am

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 am
Forgive me for the continued referencing of Consumer Reports but since I’m not mechanically inclined I tend to lean on CR for vehicle guidance when perhaps I should be referencing other Auto-specific publications.
CR is a good starting point, but they have their bias as does everyone. There are forums like this for different brands where they discuss the problems they are encountering. You can generally see a pattern emerge for the problems they are encountering based on a certain model.
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by chevca » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:14 am

From a gearhead... please don't use gearhead and Honda Pilot in the same sentence or question. :D

Your question is for consumer report experts.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Housedoc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:19 am

Owned a 2006 pilot for 10 yrs, great vehicle. Newer ones have issues. However all newer vehicles have problems as technology and fuel standard have forced changes. Be aware there is a service bulletin on Highlanders with 8 speed transmission. Prior to July 2017 build I believe. Toyota has extended warranty to 5yr 60K on the transmission.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:34 am

I wouldn't think twice about buying a Pilot. The drivetrain they are using in the Pilot and now Passport are proven to be reliable and haven't changed in a few years.

I would check out a place like https://www.piloteers.org/forums/2-gene ... 4d7f23f114 and see if there are common problem areas.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by jharkin » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:12 am

They are both great brands but Toyota has always had a bit better reliability than Honda - and I say this as a diehard Honda fan. Toyota's entire focus is reliability, and they basically wrote the book on it and invented lean manufacturing (look up a book "The Toyota Way"). Honda works hard on quality but their real core competency is as a world class engine builder and they sometimes give up a little reliability to put some more sportiness in their models vs. the Toyota equivalent.

As to the Pilot.... well they are good but they are not bulletproof like 1990s Honda's where. Our '08 had a valve issue. Our '17 has been good so far but we have the EX-L with the Honda designed 6 speed. As noted by other above, the Touring/Elite use a ZF sourced 8 speed that is prone to drivability issues (especially gear hunting in eco mode). I say good as we have some nagging usability issues with the touch screen infotainment, but nothing work taking the car in for a diagnosis.

The Passport may be Pilot based but its an all new design. I would wait for first year kinks to get worked out before buying one.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by 8foot7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:20 am

Had a 2007 Honda CR-V that was operating wonderfully up until at age 11 last year it was totaled (130k milies or so).
I think Honda in the last couple of years has really had some problems with reliability. Friend has a 2018 Odyssey with several admittedly relatively minor issues. The latest CR-Vs, well just do a search of the forum. I'd be leaning toward Toyota right now for a new vehicle. I think Hondas pre-2015 are very good if you're going used.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:36 am

chevca wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:14 am
From a gearhead... please don't use gearhead and Honda Pilot in the same sentence or question. :D

Your question is for consumer report experts.
Yes, I think the OP is confused and should have asked if the Civic type R has the same neutral handling characteristics that the famed 8th gen Si had or should he upgrade to an NSX or find a used S2k?

Seriously.....a couple things. What specifically does CR not like about these busses? Do they have the troublesome Honda CVT? If they do, then there's your answer. I'll also mention that CR doesn't have a clue about new generation cars of any type. I made the mistake to rely on them in 1998, when they recommended the Audi A4 and gave it a stellar reliability rating. They later revised it to junk status as I was having the dealer replace the faulty manual transmission under warranty.
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by alfaspider » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:20 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:36 am
chevca wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:14 am
From a gearhead... please don't use gearhead and Honda Pilot in the same sentence or question. :D

Your question is for consumer report experts.
Yes, I think the OP is confused and should have asked if the Civic type R has the same neutral handling characteristics that the famed 8th gen Si had or should he upgrade to an NSX or find a used S2k?

Seriously.....a couple things. What specifically does CR not like about these busses? Do they have the troublesome Honda CVT? If they do, then there's your answer. I'll also mention that CR doesn't have a clue about new generation cars of any type. I made the mistake to rely on them in 1998, when they recommended the Audi A4 and gave it a stellar reliability rating. They later revised it to junk status as I was having the dealer replace the faulty manual transmission under warranty.
As a gearhead, I recommend the OP buy a CRX with a K24 swap.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by TheOscarGuy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:26 am

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
For those gearheads our there on the site can someone help exlain why Consumer Reports is rating the 2019 Honda Pilot substantially lower than Toyota SUVs on reliability?

We are evaluating a 2019 Honda Passport for my wife which as I undertand it is a shortened body, taller stance, different styled spinoff of the Honda Pilot platform. In referencing Consumer Reports they call out the Toyota Highlander and Rav4 as having “far above average” predicted reliability while the Pilot is given two notches below “Average” predicted reliability.

We’re also considering the 2019 Rav4 as well but my wife prefers the ride, styling, hushed interior, layout of the Honda Passport. My concern is the stated lower predicted reliability since we want this thing to last for many years.

Thanks for your feedback and insight.
I wonder how many of those issues are due to CVT. I knew they were coming up with new transmission, and I disliked it having used it before, and was worried it would reduce longevity of transmission system. So I bought 2015, the last Model year Pilot.

Here are some high level thoughts on passport:

1. You need to know more details on the passport. Does it also have CVT. Is it more geared towards off-roading, compared to pilot? Or just fills a 'gap' between CRV and pilot.
2. This is first model year! I can not stress this enough. I will never buy a first model year, even from Hondas and Toyotas.
3. Have you actually tried passport yet? It seems you have, based on your comments. I was under the impression that they still are not in dealer lots.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by snowman » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:51 am

Gearhead here.

Both brands are good, but that’s not how you decide. CR is biased in their own ways (too many to mention here), so use their ratings only as a starting point. Use other research avenues available to you. Head out to online forums dedicated to models you are considering. Spend some time there and you will notice main problems popping up, as well as many minor issues. Watch YT reviews, read online publications.

Specifically to Passport – I just watched YT review yesterday. I am not shopping for a vehicle, but if one of my kids asked for my opinion, I would say don’t buy it. Not because it’s a Honda (I love Hondas), but because it’s a brand new model. Yes, I know, it’s just a baby Pilot, but every new vehicle is going to have some issues. If you are concerned about reliability, I’d wait until MY3 to even consider buying it. By that time, online forums will have wealth of info on major and minor issues, recalls, TSBs, recommended solutions, etc. At that point, you could make informed decision; you cannot do it today.

I also don’t like marketing of this vehicle – it’s just a turn off for me personally (though I can clearly see the appeal to its target market). So it’s made for “adventurous couples and young families” and it has “unique off-road capabilities”. So that’s why you gave this crossover standard 20 inch wheels with low profile tires? Really? And where is the 2-speed transfer case? Is that why it's off road capabilities are "unique"? At least Honda did not mess with turbo or CVT, but still...

I think it could be a financial winner for Honda – many would be happy CRV owners will step up and pay more for “adventurous” Passport without having to buy not-a-minivan-minivan (Pilot). Or it could be a flop and disappear during next recession. Or it could ultimately replace CRV as the target demographic grows wealthier every year. We shall see, but I would not buy one today.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by bmsuter » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:00 am

I've been working on Hondas for many years now. 2000 CRV, 2005 Pilot, 2007 Civic, 2011 Accord, and a 2013 Pilot in the extended family. I can only speak for up to 2013 model years, but they are extremely reliable. I could work on the two Fords in the family for forever and there is always something else that needs to be done. The 2000 CRV is at 200k with nothing but fluid changes, plugs and wires, tires, and a timing belt kit.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ASpenderInRecovery » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am

Excellent feedback from all. I get the jokes on asking for gearhead insight, what I should have said is for those who are mechanically inclined. The Pilot/Passport are not an enthusiast type vehicle. Mainly I was looking to understand the underlying mechanical reasons Honda’s are getting lower reliability ratings than Toyota’s. I’ve seen comments before about how CR’s reliability ratings can be a headfake based on different manufacturers sharing the same transmissions/engines but having different reliability ratings with similar components. It sounds like the oil dilution, newer unproven CVT, and misc SW issues are some main concerns.

My wife has a rav4 that’s lease (not our best decision) is up in Sept and we are looking to buy a new vehicle to replace it that she will have for 7-10 years and be a safe and reliable family vehicle. Based on the feedback the Rav4 will likely be a more reliable choice. If we opt for the hybrid it will also get double the fuel economy that her current Rav4 gets.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by vitaflo » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:34 am

snowman wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:51 am
would say don’t buy it. Not because it’s a Honda (I love Hondas), but because it’s a brand new model. Yes, I know, it’s just a baby Pilot, but every new vehicle is going to have some issues. If you are concerned about reliability, I’d wait until MY3 to even consider buying it.
This is the correct answer. Newly redesigned models are always a crap shoot. There are always bugs and kinks they haven't quite worked out yet. People want to buy these vehicles because they are the newest and have the coolest new features, but you're basically beta testing the platform.

If you buy a model right before a refresh you'll have a good idea of what issues are to be had with it, what kinks were ironed out along the way, and have a decent handle on what you're getting into. Not true with newly redesigned models.

In general though, most cars these days are reliable. People fret too much about this sort of thing. It's not the 80's anymore, cars don't overheat and break down on the side of the road with regularity. Most reliability issues these days are from glitches in the infotainment and the like, not head gaskets blowing up.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by dsmclone » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:39 am

Toyota finds something that works, is simple, and then uses it forever. I'm not just talking powertrain. Hell a lot of the issues you see on these surveys are not actually reliability issues but issues with things like infotainment systems. Toyota gets around things like this by being the last to implement about everything when it comes to tech. It's 2019 and they are just getting AA/Apple Carplay. I remember them having cassette players in their Lexus models about 10 years after everyone else.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ETadvisor » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:47 am

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am
My wife has a rav4 that’s lease (not our best decision) is up in Sept and we are looking to buy a new vehicle to replace it that she will have for 7-10 years and be a safe and reliable family vehicle. Based on the feedback the Rav4 will likely be a more reliable choice. If we opt for the hybrid it will also get double the fuel economy that her current Rav4 gets.
Have you considered a lease buyout. You know the history and a way to make a wrong decision into a better one. You may overall spend more than if you bought it new. See if the residual value is comprable to a private-party price. Then ask yourself would you pay a premium for knowing if the prior car owner (you) maintained the car with regular oil changes, never in an accident, etc.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by thatme » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:56 am

I have a 6-year old Pilot with 170K miles. It started to show its age in the last 20K miles (mainly needs some suspension maintenance, brake pads are wearing more quickly, etc.). We really need a bigger vehicle so we haven't sunk the money into it and will likely sell it soon - but it's been super reliable throughout my ownership. It sounds like the newer Pilots have been having some issues though, so take that for what it's worth.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by snackdog » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:38 pm

JD power ranked the Pilot better than the Highland and 4Runner (but worse than a bunch of other SUVs) for 2019. Go figure.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by ASpenderInRecovery » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:33 pm

ETadvisor wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:47 am
ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am
My wife has a rav4 that’s lease (not our best decision) is up in Sept and we are looking to buy a new vehicle to replace it that she will have for 7-10 years and be a safe and reliable family vehicle. Based on the feedback the Rav4 will likely be a more reliable choice. If we opt for the hybrid it will also get double the fuel economy that her current Rav4 gets.
Have you considered a lease buyout. You know the history and a way to make a wrong decision into a better one. You may overall spend more than if you bought it new. See if the residual value is comprable to a private-party price. Then ask yourself would you pay a premium for knowing if the prior car owner (you) maintained the car with regular oil changes, never in an accident, etc.
Lease buyout is a better financial move but we are comfortable spending more to purchase the refreshed model with the plan to keep it for 7-10 years. Nice bump up in safety features, infotainment tech, better styling, hybrid with double the fuel economy. Call it lifesytle creep we are ok with. For reference, we are averaging 17mpg on her current Rav4 likely due to and the new hybrid would get closer to 40mpg.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by msi » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:06 pm

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:18 am
Excellent feedback from all. I get the jokes on asking for gearhead insight, what I should have said is for those who are mechanically inclined. The Pilot/Passport are not an enthusiast type vehicle. Mainly I was looking to understand the underlying mechanical reasons Honda’s are getting lower reliability ratings than Toyota’s. I’ve seen comments before about how CR’s reliability ratings can be a headfake based on different manufacturers sharing the same transmissions/engines but having different reliability ratings with similar components. It sounds like the oil dilution, newer unproven CVT, and misc SW issues are some main concerns.

My wife has a rav4 that’s lease (not our best decision) is up in Sept and we are looking to buy a new vehicle to replace it that she will have for 7-10 years and be a safe and reliable family vehicle. Based on the feedback the Rav4 will likely be a more reliable choice. If we opt for the hybrid it will also get double the fuel economy that her current Rav4 gets.
Honda's average reliability as a brand was dragged down by the Odyssey (redesigned in 2018) and the Clarity, both of which had terrible reliability. Some of the other models just fell to average (like the CR-V and Accord).

CR has no crystal ball, but they do have an enormous amount of data. I've yet to see any concrete evidence that this nonprofit who accepts no advertising has some sort of bias in reporting the reliability data subscribers tell them via surveys, but people have their own views. CR is not the end-all be-all, but I always consider what they say before buying.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by chessknt » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:34 pm

2005 pilot was running ok with regular maintenance up until last year, now just coasting on it until we move so we can sell and not take it with us. Maintenance in these is quite arduous--they require oem transmission and rear differential fluid changes every oil change if you want to save its transmission from capping out. I don't have any other suv to compare it to but I wouldn't buy again.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by JamesSFO » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:37 pm

Btw I just got the official blow off from Honda, my only option is to sue them. PM me any recommended lemon lawyers in Northern California..

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by munemaker » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:44 pm

ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 am
So do we attribute Honda’s lower reliability to the recent oil dilution issue and transmission issues referenced above?
I don't think so. CR did not lower the rating of the CR*V due to the oil dilution problem, so I doubt that lowered Honda's reliability rating as a whole.

Just to be clear, the oil dilution problem is on the CR*V, not the Pilot.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by catalina355 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:55 am

jharkin wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:12 am
They are both great brands but Toyota has always had a bit better reliability than Honda - and I say this as a diehard Honda fan. Toyota's entire focus is reliability, and they basically wrote the book on it and invented lean manufacturing (look up a book "The Toyota Way"). Honda works hard on quality but their real core competency is as a world class engine builder and they sometimes give up a little reliability to put some more sportiness in their models vs. the Toyota equivalent.

As to the Pilot.... well they are good but they are not bulletproof like 1990s Honda's where. Our '08 had a valve issue. Our '17 has been good so far but we have the EX-L with the Honda designed 6 speed. As noted by other above, the Touring/Elite use a ZF sourced 8 speed that is prone to drivability issues (especially gear hunting in eco mode). I say good as we have some nagging usability issues with the touch screen infotainment, but nothing work taking the car in for a diagnosis.

The Passport may be Pilot based but its an all new design. I would wait for first year kinks to get worked out before buying one.
Actually the ZF is a 9 speed box. The Passport I don't think can be called an all new design. The engine and transmission are the same as the Pilot's, the 4 wheel drive system is the same, the dashboard and instruments are the same, the interior is the same (different seat covers), the suspension front and rear is the same (with different calibration). The Passport really is a Pilot with a shortened rear end. The wheelbase is identical.

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catalina355
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by catalina355 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:58 am

TheOscarGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:26 am
ASpenderInRecovery wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:15 pm
For those gearheads our there on the site can someone help exlain why Consumer Reports is rating the 2019 Honda Pilot substantially lower than Toyota SUVs on reliability?

We are evaluating a 2019 Honda Passport for my wife which as I undertand it is a shortened body, taller stance, different styled spinoff of the Honda Pilot platform. In referencing Consumer Reports they call out the Toyota Highlander and Rav4 as having “far above average” predicted reliability while the Pilot is given two notches below “Average” predicted reliability.

We’re also considering the 2019 Rav4 as well but my wife prefers the ride, styling, hushed interior, layout of the Honda Passport. My concern is the stated lower predicted reliability since we want this thing to last for many years.

Thanks for your feedback and insight.
I wonder how many of those issues are due to CVT. I knew they were coming up with new transmission, and I disliked it having used it before, and was worried it would reduce longevity of transmission system. So I bought 2015, the last Model year Pilot.

Here are some high level thoughts on passport:

1. You need to know more details on the passport. Does it also have CVT. Is it more geared towards off-roading, compared to pilot? Or just fills a 'gap' between CRV and pilot.
2. This is first model year! I can not stress this enough. I will never buy a first model year, even from Hondas and Toyotas.
3. Have you actually tried passport yet? It seems you have, based on your comments. I was under the impression that they still are not in dealer lots.
1. It has the Pilot 9 speed transmission. https://automobiles.honda.com
2. See my other post.
3. They have been on dealer lots for a few weeks.

NJdad6
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by NJdad6 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:49 am

I have a 2011 Pilot. Reliability is average at best. Have had suspension and electrical issues. Not a terrible vehicle but would most likely pass on another Honda.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by UALflyer » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:42 am

fortfun wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:31 pm
I'm sold on Toyota--Only wished I'd started buying them 30 years ago. Think of all the money I would have saved.
People keep making broad generalizations about whole brands like Toyota, Honda, etc... In reality, as many posters have correctly pointed out above, every single brand out there has had years, models and options that have been rock solid, as well as certain ones that have been extremely trouble prone.

Toyota has had its fair share of significant reliability issues in the past. The Toyota and Lexus engine sludge problems of the late '90's/early 2000's models are one such example: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/car ... /index.htm

We aren't talking about minor issues either. We are talking engine failures in some of the most popular Toyota models.

My point here isn't to keep people from buying Toyotas, but to say that you really need to go to the model specific websites and read about the specific models, years and options that you are considering. Don't just buy a vehicle based on your perception of the entire brand, which perception could easily be dead wrong as it applies to the specific model and year that you're considering. Likewise, you may discover that a competing model that you had previously written off may actually represent a better value, as it's not only more reliable but is a nicer overall vehicle.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by OldBallCoach » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:11 pm

I test drove the new Passport yesterday and I will say while is a little quicker than a Pilot the ride was very firm and the posted mileage is nothing to write home about..the pricing was basically 1500 less per model than the Pilot...little different front end but the same interior. The truck was ok at best and the transmission seems like it wants to search for the right gear all the time..Again I only drove it maybe 15 miles back but I was not all that impressed. Based on how Honda has basically told me to deal with it on my wives 2017 CRV 1.5 issues I would steer clear and buy a Highlander for the same money or get a 4runner if you really want a truck.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by jharkin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:29 pm

snackdog wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:38 pm
JD power ranked the Pilot better than the Highland and 4Runner (but worse than a bunch of other SUVs) for 2019. Go figure.
JDPower is not a reliability metric. Its an initial build quality study.
chessknt wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:34 pm
2005 pilot was running ok with regular maintenance up until last year, now just coasting on it until we move so we can sell and not take it with us. Maintenance in these is quite arduous--they require oem transmission and rear differential fluid changes every oil change if you want to save its transmission from capping out. I don't have any other suv to compare it to but I wouldn't buy again.
Changing the rear differential fluid will do NOTHING to protect the transmission as they are completely separate units - whoever told you do do that didn't know what they where talking about. And changing either at every oil change is just flushing money down the drain, its not a magic bullet of protection. When I had my 08 I did the rear diff every 30k by the book and did the trans every 60k just to be a little overprotective due to the early 2000s Honda v6 transmission issues... but I have no evidence to prove it actually helped.

If you really think thats a lot of work dont every buy a Toyota pickup truck. :twisted: Greasing the zerks on multiple U-joints, having to periodically re torque the driveshaft and suspension bolts, replacing old fashion copper spark plugs every 30k, doing all the differentials and transfers from time to time, etc. Honda maintenance is a cakewalk by comparison.
catalina355 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:55 am
Actually the ZF is a 9 speed box. The Passport I don't think can be called an all new design. The engine and transmission are the same as the Pilot's, the 4 wheel drive system is the same, the dashboard and instruments are the same, the interior is the same (different seat covers), the suspension front and rear is the same (with different calibration). The Passport really is a Pilot with a shortened rear end. The wheelbase is identical.
Thanks, I mis-remembered re 8 vs. 9.

As to the passport, yes its the same powertrain and the interior is put together from the same parts bin but I still think of it as a new design... Remember the engine and parts of the transmission where also used in Odyseys, older V6 accords, etc as are a lot of the dash parts, interior switchgear, etc. In the same vein go look at Toyotas - the same engine, transmission, drivetrain and interior parts bin is shared across Tacomas and 4Runners (and previously FJ) etc....

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by meowcat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:48 pm

I have been a Honda loyalist for many, many years. I'm currently driving my 13th. One thing I have learned in the 30 years of owning them is that they will find any excuse NOT to cover a repair under warranty. Even legitimate manufacturer defects will be blamed on the consumer. "Sorry your window won't roll down any more but you must have pushed on it while it was going up. Sorry, no warranty".
More people should learn to tell their dollars where to go instead of asking them where they went. | -Roger Babson

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fortfun
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by fortfun » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:28 pm

UALflyer wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:42 am
fortfun wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:31 pm
I'm sold on Toyota--Only wished I'd started buying them 30 years ago. Think of all the money I would have saved.
People keep making broad generalizations about whole brands like Toyota, Honda, etc... In reality, as many posters have correctly pointed out above, every single brand out there has had years, models and options that have been rock solid, as well as certain ones that have been extremely trouble prone.

Toyota has had its fair share of significant reliability issues in the past. The Toyota and Lexus engine sludge problems of the late '90's/early 2000's models are one such example: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/car ... /index.htm

We aren't talking about minor issues either. We are talking engine failures in some of the most popular Toyota models.

My point here isn't to keep people from buying Toyotas, but to say that you really need to go to the model specific websites and read about the specific models, years and options that you are considering. Don't just buy a vehicle based on your perception of the entire brand, which perception could easily be dead wrong as it applies to the specific model and year that you're considering. Likewise, you may discover that a competing model that you had previously written off may actually represent a better value, as it's not only more reliable but is a nicer overall vehicle.
That's why I only use full synthetic :)

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G12
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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by G12 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:53 pm

I have a 2017 Pilot EX-L AWD Pilot. This is not a joke, the folding arm rests on the driver/passenger seats are a joke. I have relatively thick wrists/forearms partly genetically, partly from sports related activity and working out. The arm rest cover about 1/3 the width of my forearm, I believe it would be inadequate for most female drivers. I should say I came out of a 2015 mid-level Ford Flex FWD mid-level trim vehicle. The Ford seats were much better and center console "arm rest" were much more comfortable. If you are simply driving around town, no big deal, if you are knocking off 1,500 to 7,800 mile round trip drives, not so much for the Pilot. I do not care so much for the floating bubble effect I feel driving the Pilot, ie I feel like I am in a bubble driving it and or parking it. The back up camera sucks in comparison to the Ford, the side mirrors as well. I do love the AWD system, it has been exceptional. Infotainment pretty much same issues although the Ford sound quality was superior. I got out of the Ford due to 2 potentially serious driving situations and found the suspension too weak at all four wheels to handle mountainous interstate terrain, especially with 18-wheelers in close proximity. I almost bought a Ford Explorer Sport 4wd and wish I had. Honda wants a premium price for what I consider, after driving 27k miles, an average overall product.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by Feb29 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:36 pm

I was a long-time Honda owner (5 vehicles). They used to be reliable, but after recent headaches with my Odyssey and Civic, I decided no more Hondas. I just went over to Toyota.

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Re: Question for gearheads on Honda Pilot/Passport reliability

Post by sunny_socal » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:20 am

I've had good luck with Honda, still have our 2007 Pilot. I also drive a 2015 Accord, plan on keeping it for at least another 10 years.

The new Passport looks great!
https://automobiles.honda.com/passport

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