FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

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F150HD
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FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by F150HD » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 am

We all recall the Equifax data breach, that put many into a panic.

I don't see this as any different?

Or, any different the say Google or Facebook sharing or 'selling' all your personal info. In fact, this seems worse to me?

FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data With F.B.I.

Feb 4, 2019

The president of FamilyTreeDNA, one of the country’s largest at-home genetic testing companies, has apologized to its users for failing to disclose that it was sharing DNA data with federal investigators....FamilyTreeDNA had marketed itself as a leader of consumer privacy and a fierce protector of user data, refusing, unlike some of its competitors, to sell information to third parties.

But unbeknown to its users, the Houston-based firm quietly and voluntarily agreed in 2018 to open its database of more than two million records to the F.B.I....


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/busi ... a-fbi.html

Has anyone used this company and is aware of this?
Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm

F150HD wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 am
But unbeknown to its users, the Houston-based firm quietly and voluntarily agreed in 2018 to open its database of more than two million records to the F.B.I....[/i]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/busi ... a-fbi.html

Has anyone used this company and is aware of this?
If your third cousin has used this company then you have used this company.
So essentially everybody has used this company.

So your question degenerates to "Is anyone aware of this?".

Ragnoth
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Ragnoth » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:12 pm

Essentially all of these paid DNA testing services are using your data for some purpose or another.

Ever since the Golden State killer was tracked down, people who are more “privacy minded” started sounding alarms.

Nobody is suggesting killers go free—but it’s a new piece of “surveillance creep”... and one of the few that you have no real control over (unless you can convince your entire extended family to forgo these services).

Make of that what you will. But I would assume that *any* service might start selling your data or using it in “creative” ways eventually.

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lthenderson
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by lthenderson » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:18 pm

Why is this even news? If the FBI or anyone for that matter wants to track down a killer, they just need to set up an account, submit the DNA like everybody else and they are provided with a list of possible matches. This is exactly how the Goldenstate Killer was tracked down. All FamilyTreeDNA did was let the FBI do it without the hassle of setting up an account.

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8foot7
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by 8foot7 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm

This type of thing is why I'll never do one of these tests. Who knows how your own DNA will be used against you in the future? Insurance rates, eligibility for certain benefits, biometric fraud/identity theft...

January 3, 2030. "We obtained a record of your DNA from a consumer reporting agency as well as a predictive score of your health based on the contents of your DNA record. We are unable to offer coverage for CANCER as a part of your health insurance policy because your health score was not high enough on our scale. Your score is based in whole or in part on the following reasons..."

Ragnoth
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Ragnoth » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:47 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm
This type of thing is why I'll never do one of these tests. Who knows how your own DNA will be used against you in the future? Insurance rates, eligibility for certain benefits, biometric fraud/identity theft...

January 3, 2030. "We obtained a record of your DNA from a consumer reporting agency as well as a predictive score of your health based on the contents of your DNA record. We are unable to offer coverage for CANCER as a part of your health insurance policy because your health score was not high enough on our scale. Your score is based in whole or in part on the following reasons..."
Now imagine "We determined your DNA profile from a consumer reporting agency based on the contents of your family DNA record. Based on your Nephew, Cousin, and Grandparents' profiles, your health score was not high enough on our scale."

azanon
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by azanon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:53 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm
F150HD wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 am
But unbeknown to its users, the Houston-based firm quietly and voluntarily agreed in 2018 to open its database of more than two million records to the F.B.I....[/i]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/busi ... a-fbi.html

Has anyone used this company and is aware of this?
If your third cousin has used this company then you have used this company.
So essentially everybody has used this company.

So your question degenerates to "Is anyone aware of this?".
Surely, no one would have to be convinced that the risk level of someone who's actually used the service and has results validated as theirs is at a much higher risk level than someone who has never used those services. Much higher, meaning almost not comparable.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:17 pm

azanon wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:53 pm
Epsilon Delta wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm
F150HD wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 am
But unbeknown to its users, the Houston-based firm quietly and voluntarily agreed in 2018 to open its database of more than two million records to the F.B.I....[/i]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/busi ... a-fbi.html

Has anyone used this company and is aware of this?
If your third cousin has used this company then you have used this company.
So essentially everybody has used this company.

So your question degenerates to "Is anyone aware of this?".
Surely, no one would have to be convinced that the risk level of someone who's actually used the service and has results validated as theirs is at a much higher risk level than someone who has never used those services. Much higher, meaning almost not comparable.
I do not believe there is any justification for your "much higher". Any protection is purely temporary until the relevant records get computerized and indexed, which is not a particularly difficult task if a government, corporation or the Later Day Saints set their mind to it.

scout1
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by scout1 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm

I have very little problem with this. Obviously other people are very concerned though. I believe most fears are induced by the slippery slope fallacy. I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me. Pre-existing conditions (which I assume your DNA is a pre-existing condition) are protected and the public is strongly in favor of these protections. What should I be afraid of that makes sense outside of the slippery slope context?

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Ice-9
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Ice-9 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:48 pm

I happen to be a FamilyTreeDNA customer and received this email from them Sunday. In summary, they are saying they aren't doing any special sharing with the FBI as seems to have been reported. They are simply letting them have a user account to allow them to see what any Family Tree DNA customer sees. If you configure your account to not share with other FTDNA users, the FBI won't see it either. I don't see this as a big deal.
Dear Customers:

I am writing to address the news that our Gene-by-Gene laboratory, which processes genetic tests for several commercial clients in addition to all of the FamilyTreeDNA tests, has processed a handful of DNA samples for cold cases from the F.B.I. In many cases, the news reports contained false or misleading information.

Let me start with this categorical statement:

LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT HAVE OPEN ACCESS TO THE FTDNA DATABASE.

They cannot search or “dig through” FTDNA profiles any more than an ordinary user can. As with all other genetic genealogy services, law enforcement must provide valid legal process, such as a subpoena or search warrant to receive any information beyond that which any other user can access.

I have been an avid genealogist since I was twelve years old. FamilyTreeDNA is not just a business, it is my passion. I fully understand your privacy concerns on a personal level.

Law enforcement has the ability to test DNA samples from crime scenes and upload the results into databases, like any other customer can, and it appears they have been doing it at other companies for the past year. The distinction is that, according to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, we expect the FBI and law enforcement agencies to let us know when they submit something to our database. We moved to something transparent, rather than having them work in a stealthy way. Other than that, nothing changed that affects the privacy of our customers.

FamilyTreeDNA has always taken your privacy seriously and will continue to do so. We’ve remained steadfast, always, refusing to sell your data to pharmaceutical companies and other third parties.

One of the key reasons law enforcement wanted to submit their samples to us is the same reason many of you have: out of all the major companies, FamilyTreeDNA is the only one that has its own lab, and our customers’ samples never leave our company.

As previously stated, law enforcement can only receive information beyond that which is accessible to the standard user by providing FamilyTreeDNA with valid legal process, such as a subpoena or a search warrant. Again, this is specified in FamilyTreeDNA’s Terms of Service, just as with all other companies.

ABOUT OUR TERMS OF SERVICE

The Terms of Service were changed in May of 2018 to reflect GDPR requirements, and we informed our customers about the update at that time. Those changes included a paragraph that required law enforcement to receive our permission to enter the database and since it was a part of the overall update, notice was sent to every FTDNA customer. Without infringing upon our customers’ privacy, the language in the paragraph referring to law enforcement was updated in December, although nothing changed in the actual handling of such requests. It was an oversight that notice of the revision was not sent to you and that is our mistake. Therefore, we are reverting our TOS to our May 2018 version, and any future changes will be communicated to you in a timely manner.

This is the May 2018, GDPR-compliant version, communicated to you at that time: “You agree to not use the Services for any law enforcement purposes, forensic examinations, criminal investigations, and/or similar purposes without the required legal documentation and written permission from FamilyTreeDNA.”

WE WILL DO A BETTER JOB OF COMMUNICATING WITH YOU.

I am genuinely sorry for not having handled our communications with you as we should have.

We’ve received an incredible amount of support from those of you who believe this is an opportunity for honest, law-abiding citizens to help catch bad guys and bring closure to devastated families. We want you to understand, as many of you already do, that you have the same protections that you’ve always had and that you have nothing to fear.

We’ve also heard from supporters offering ideas and solutions to make the FamilyTreeDNA experience a more comfortable one in light of this new information.

We are listening. Our plan is to create a panel of citizen genealogist advisors who will work with us as we focus on how to make your FamilyTreeDNA experience the best one available.

Sincerely,

Bennett Greenspan
President
FamilyTreeDNA.com

“History Unearthed Daily"

Random Poster
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Random Poster » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Companies are using, sharing, and monetizing your data that you haven't provided to them and that you haven't consented to them having, using, sharing, or monetizing.

You don't consider that to be a negative that concerns you?

scout1
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by scout1 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Companies are using, sharing, and monetizing your data that you haven't provided to them and that you haven't consented to them having, using, sharing, or monetizing.

You don't consider that to be a negative that concerns you?
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.

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celia
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by celia » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:21 pm

All the DNA companies share information with the authorities, but it is in very rare circumstances. The FBI and police need a court order or similar, but very few of them have a reason that is good enough to have their request granted.
A transparency report from 23andMe shows that it has released a total of four requests from the United States for genetic information related to five individuals. “In the event we are required by law to make a disclosure, we will notify the affected customer through the contact information provided to us, unless doing so would violate the law or a court order,” said 23andMe privacy officer Kate Black. (as of February 2016)
https://futurism.com/echoing-apples-con ... tomer-dna/

Ancestry has formalized their procedure for making requests:
https://www.ancestry.com/cs/legal/lawenforcement

Even if all these rules are followed, that still doesn't mean the request will be granted.

pdavi21
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:24 pm

Not a big deal if you were already a service member or convicted felon or both.
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

researcher
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by researcher » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Surely you can distinguish between companies sharing your internet browsing history vs. sharing your DNA.

fru-gal
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by fru-gal » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:31 pm

I'm concerned about privacy, but if law enforcement can use my DNA to catch a violent criminal or identify a murder victim, I say more power to them.

Giving this information to insurance companies, etc. is an entirely different matter.

scout1
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by scout1 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Surely you can distinguish between companies sharing your internet browsing history vs. sharing your DNA.
Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life. Especially now that pre-existing conditions are protected. It its arguably even less meaningful than my internet browsing history. Heck if insurers knew your genetic data based on family members DNA they could prompt you to get tested for diseases you're at risk for that you don't even know about, that would be beneficial.

camden
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by camden » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:44 pm

Privacy, in any real sense, is long gone in our current society. We have collectively traded it, unwittingly perhaps, for all of the advantages our interconnected age brings.

I always assume that any information I give anyone about myself, or interactions that can be tracked, can and often will be used for purposes I had not intended.

Random Poster
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Random Poster » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Companies are using, sharing, and monetizing your data that you haven't provided to them and that you haven't consented to them having, using, sharing, or monetizing.

You don't consider that to be a negative that concerns you?
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
:confused The library is free too, but it doesn't request the personal data of my cousin in order for me to access its holdings.

Besides, I don't use Facebook, but I suspect---based on recent reporting---that Facebook knows about me. But who gave them any right to know anything about me? Not me.

But more to the point of this thread, your genetic data is personal to you and only you should be allowed to control it. If you want to share your genetic data with someone or some entity, that's your right. But, in doing so, you do not have the right to share my genetic data absent my consent.

And that is all I'm going to say about that, given the way this place works.

jrbdmb
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by jrbdmb » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:58 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Surely you can distinguish between companies sharing your internet browsing history vs. sharing your DNA.
Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life. Especially now that pre-existing conditions are protected. It its arguably even less meaningful than my internet browsing history. Heck if insurers knew your genetic data based on family members DNA they could prompt you to get tested for diseases you're at risk for that you don't even know about, that would be beneficial.
Protection for individuals with pre-existing conditions is by no means guaranteed - lawsuits challenging this are winding their way through the courts now. And unfortunately a complete DNA profile might be the ultimate pre-existing condition for many, potentially denying access to health insurance, life / disability insurance, loans, and employment.

StandingRock
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by StandingRock » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:00 pm

I haven't used Facebook in years. They intentionally made it difficult to make your data private or delete your information. It was obvious years ago what they were trying to do.

PVW
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by PVW » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:35 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Really?

Your DNA is the fundamental definition of your physical identity and likely holds many keys to your personality, health and psychology. Are you comfortable sharing this information with anyone that wants it? For a flippant example, would you want someone that is interested in your Match.com profile to check out your propensity for hair loss and athleticism?

Privacy is a fundamental right. I don't need to have a secret to have a desire for privacy.

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lthenderson
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by lthenderson » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:36 pm

The most in depth DNA analyzing company only looks at 700,000 places of your DNA out of the 3 billion plus total spots. That means they only have 0.2% of your total genetic information.

lightheir
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by lightheir » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:40 pm

PVW wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:35 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Really?

Your DNA is the fundamental definition of your physical identity and likely holds many keys to your personality, health and psychology. Are you comfortable sharing this information with anyone that wants it? For a flippant example, would you want someone that is interested in your Match.com profile to check out your propensity for hair loss and athleticism?

Privacy is a fundamental right. I don't need to have a secret to have a desire for privacy.
A definitive negative is the DNA-based racism that can occur. Like employers intentionally screening only for white-Anglo DNA ancestry to exclude colored minorities. Or more subtly, choosing for grouped traits that in isolation, don't say much about race, but when grouped and selected for as a cluster, do as good a job as discriminating as the most ardent white nationalist.

Or even more realistically, insurers denying health insurance to families bearing certain genetic disease traits. Like the cystic fibrosis gene carriers, which is a lot more common than you'd think.

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lthenderson
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by lthenderson » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:53 pm

lightheir wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:40 pm
A definitive negative is the DNA-based racism that can occur. Like employers intentionally screening only for white-Anglo DNA ancestry to exclude colored minorities.
The most common autosomal DNA tests can't tell you what your race is or even your sex. It is simply a comparison to others that share a similar section of DNA.

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Nate79
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Nate79 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:01 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:29 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Surely you can distinguish between companies sharing your internet browsing history vs. sharing your DNA.
Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life. Especially now that pre-existing conditions are protected. It its arguably even less meaningful than my internet browsing history. Heck if insurers knew your genetic data based on family members DNA they could prompt you to get tested for diseases you're at risk for that you don't even know about, that would be beneficial.
What do you mean "pre-existing conditions are protected"? They most certainly are not completely protected.

Finridge
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Finridge » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:09 pm

One advantage of getting genetic testing done is that it allows you to prepare financially if you are at significantly higher risk for various medical conditions. For example, there is a genetic variant that greatly increases the chances that its carriers will develop early-onset Alzheimer's.There is a study of the impact of test results on insurance buying behavior. Testing positive is not a "fun" thing to know, but it gives you more information regarding how useful long-term care insurance may be for you. The study found: "... those who tested positive were 5.76 times more likely to have altered their long-term care insurance than individuals who did not receive APOE genotype disclosure."

Kennedy
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Kennedy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:17 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:03 pm
Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:55 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:40 pm
I have trouble seeing a negative that concerns me.
Companies are using, sharing, and monetizing your data that you haven't provided to them and that you haven't consented to them having, using, sharing, or monetizing.

You don't consider that to be a negative that concerns you?
No, that's why Facebook, Google, Youtube and most of the internet is free. What should I be concerned about? How does this negatively impact my quality of life or wealth? I can't think of any meaningful ways and it's the model the entire internet is based upon. The fact that I see ads targeted towards my interests is a good thing, not a bad thing.
:confused The library is free too, but it doesn't request the personal data of my cousin in order for me to access its holdings.

Besides, I don't use Facebook, but I suspect---based on recent reporting---that Facebook knows about me. But who gave them any right to know anything about me? Not me.

But more to the point of this thread, your genetic data is personal to you and only you should be allowed to control it. If you want to share your genetic data with someone or some entity, that's your right. But, in doing so, you do not have the right to share my genetic data absent my consent.

And that is all I'm going to say about that, given the way this place works.
The library isn't "free." It's paid for by taxes.

Smoke
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Smoke » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:18 pm

I went back 4 generations to country of origin via the old method of "research" thru family records and historical doc's.
Again I know now and am aware of aprox 1,000 yrs in the country of origin and where before that.
Do I really care if I am related to some famous or infamous character thru bloodline? NO.
Do I feel the need to submit it to some corporation? again NO.
They can test me when I go toes up.
Arguing for the sake of arguing is something I am not going to engage in.

anticrastinator
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by anticrastinator » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:47 pm

scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life.
Assume your DNA somehow ends up on a crime scene (accidentally or intentionally, easy to come up with many plausible scenarios). Obviously it has nothing to do with you but do you really want the hassle of proving your innocence (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty)? Having police, FBI or whoever digging through your or your relatives' life? Nowadays a positive DNA match is almost a guaranteed conviction. I would not take any chances.

retire2022
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by retire2022 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:55 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm
This type of thing is why I'll never do one of these tests. Who knows how your own DNA will be used against you in the future? Insurance rates, eligibility for certain benefits, biometric fraud/identity theft...

January 3, 2030. "We obtained a record of your DNA from a consumer reporting agency as well as a predictive score of your health based on the contents of your DNA record. We are unable to offer coverage for CANCER as a part of your health insurance policy because your health score was not high enough on our scale. Your score is based in whole or in part on the following reasons..."
Your doctor which does blood test can also have your DNA tested.
Don't forget that is how the CIA confirmed Osama Bin Laden

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/ ... ladens-dna

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:07 am

Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm
But more to the point of this thread, your genetic data is personal to you..
That is not true. Your genetic data is shared with your kin.

3504PIR
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by 3504PIR » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 am

If you freely give away your dna, you get whatever you deserve. Why is this a surprise?

Pacific
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Pacific » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:35 am

Sounds like we have a lot of rapist and murderer Bogleheads! LOL

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by fru-gal » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:42 am

anticrastinator wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:47 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life.
Assume your DNA somehow ends up on a crime scene (accidentally or intentionally, easy to come up with many plausible scenarios). Obviously it has nothing to do with you but do you really want the hassle of proving your innocence (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty)? Having police, FBI or whoever digging through your or your relatives' life? Nowadays a positive DNA match is almost a guaranteed conviction. I would not take any chances.
Kindly present one instance in which DNA randomly left some place where a crime is later committed has resulted in an innocent person being convicted. Even some hypothetical scenario in enough detail will do.

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F150HD
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by F150HD » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:44 am

Pacific wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:35 am
Sounds like we have a lot of rapist and murderer Bogleheads! LOL
whether this company shared it with the FBI or some huge marketing company in California trying to sell you products, in my opinion it still a form of 'personal data', just like the Equifax breach, but even moreso. Lord only knows where all this will lead.
Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.

azanon
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by azanon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:18 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:17 pm
azanon wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:53 pm
Epsilon Delta wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:49 pm
F150HD wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 am
But unbeknown to its users, the Houston-based firm quietly and voluntarily agreed in 2018 to open its database of more than two million records to the F.B.I....[/i]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/04/busi ... a-fbi.html

Has anyone used this company and is aware of this?
If your third cousin has used this company then you have used this company.
So essentially everybody has used this company.

So your question degenerates to "Is anyone aware of this?".
Surely, no one would have to be convinced that the risk level of someone who's actually used the service and has results validated as theirs is at a much higher risk level than someone who has never used those services. Much higher, meaning almost not comparable.
I do not believe there is any justification for your "much higher". Any protection is purely temporary until the relevant records get computerized and indexed, which is not a particularly difficult task if a government, corporation or the Later Day Saints set their mind to it.
If you don't take the test yourself, then other's DNA results (save your mother) is proof of only two things; jack and squat. And because your mother's DNA is diluted by the "father", which can never be known with certainty (unless of course you take the test yourself), then there's uncertainty where it concerns drawing conclusions about your specific heritage from other DNA results.

But if you upload your own DNA results with your name stamped and certified on the results, then you just went from ambiguity to certainty. So when I characterized that difference as "much higher", I think I was being modest, if anything.
Last edited by azanon on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

Random Poster
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Random Poster » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:19 am

Kennedy wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:17 pm
The library isn't "free." It's paid for by taxes.
Sigh.

By extension, the internet isn't free either, as it generally requires one to pay an ISP something, and to purchase or rent a separate device (or two) in order to access it.

But no matter.

Your rebuttal is inaccurate anyway, inasmuch as I can visit---by foot if necessary in order to effectively incur no expense---a library in adjacent city, county, or state (and to which I pay no taxes) and still access the library's holdings. For free, as far as my pocketbook is concerned.

PVW
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by PVW » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 am

fru-gal wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:42 am
anticrastinator wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:47 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life.
Assume your DNA somehow ends up on a crime scene (accidentally or intentionally, easy to come up with many plausible scenarios). Obviously it has nothing to do with you but do you really want the hassle of proving your innocence (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty)? Having police, FBI or whoever digging through your or your relatives' life? Nowadays a positive DNA match is almost a guaranteed conviction. I would not take any chances.
Kindly present one instance in which DNA randomly left some place where a crime is later committed has resulted in an innocent person being convicted. Even some hypothetical scenario in enough detail will do.
The high profile UK murder case of Meredith Kercher. Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were convicted, in part, based on their DNA collected from items at the murder scene. Their convictions were ultimately overturned after the DNA evidence was questioned.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Random Poster » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:27 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:07 am
Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm
But more to the point of this thread, your genetic data is personal to you..
That is not true. Your genetic data is shared with your kin.
In respect of this thread, so what?

Does anyone on earth have the exact same genetic make-up as you?

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by lthenderson » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:33 am

azanon wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:18 am
If you don't take the test yourself, then other's DNA results (save your mother) is proof of only two things; jack and squat. And because your mother's DNA is diluted by the "father", which can never be known with certainty (unless of course you take the test yourself), then there's uncertainty where it concerns drawing conclusions about your specific heritage from other DNA results.
Autosomal DNA tests where a criminal shares a percentage of DNA test with someone in a database, won't finger the criminal by name. But it will narrow down the list of suspects dramatically to the point where police going around and getting DNA from discarded trash of those individuals and testing it becomes feasible both financially and time wise. To do those tests, no permissions are necessary.

2cents2
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by 2cents2 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:38 am

Kindly present one instance in which DNA randomly left some place where a crime is later committed has resulted in an innocent person being convicted. Even some hypothetical scenario in enough detail will do.
Actually, I read a story about a homeless dude being charged with murder because his DNA had turned up at a crime scene. It turned out the the thing that was common to the murder victim and the accused was the same pulse oximeter (from an ambulance) had been used on both of them. It had been used on the homeless guy earlier. Then, it was used on the murder victim when they tried to save him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired. ... murder/amp

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:03 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:27 am
Epsilon Delta wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:07 am
Random Poster wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:54 pm
But more to the point of this thread, your genetic data is personal to you..
That is not true. Your genetic data is shared with your kin.
In respect of this thread, so what?

Does anyone on earth have the exact same genetic make-up as you?
With the possible exception of identical twins no two people have the same genetic make up; if you throw in "exactly" not even identical twins. But that is not the only fact that matters. Kin share part of their genetic data in predictable ways. Any reasonable discussion or policy needs to consider all the facts.

The original article describes the FBI searching the FamilyTreeDNA's database for relatives of unidentified suspects. Once they've identified the relatives it is likely they can identify the suspect. This is a direct result of the shared genetic data.

Genetic data is shared with relatives in predictable, usually probabilistic, patterns. Insurance companies, for example, are very comfortable using probabilities to set rates.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Steelersfan » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:43 pm

Epsilon Delta is completely correct.

if you want to be completely invisible to DNA matching you have to get all your known and unknown "cousins" to go private on all the sites they've tested at, or delete their DNA results.

Don't forget to include any "cousins" who have died after they took a test. <--- I'm not sure how you pull that one off.

anticrastinator
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by anticrastinator » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:05 pm

fru-gal wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:42 am
anticrastinator wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:47 pm
scout1 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:36 pm

Please provide me a realistic situation in which sharing my DNA negatively impacts my life.
Assume your DNA somehow ends up on a crime scene (accidentally or intentionally, easy to come up with many plausible scenarios). Obviously it has nothing to do with you but do you really want the hassle of proving your innocence (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty)? Having police, FBI or whoever digging through your or your relatives' life? Nowadays a positive DNA match is almost a guaranteed conviction. I would not take any chances.
Kindly present one instance in which DNA randomly left some place where a crime is later committed has resulted in an innocent person being convicted. Even some hypothetical scenario in enough detail will do.
One can come with zillion stories that could potentially happen. Hypothetically: something that has your DNA on it (clothes, cups, bottle, toothpick, Kleenex, glasses, razor, hair, napkin, etc, you get the idea) that somehow ends up at a crime scene. Yeah, chances are you can prove somehow you had nothing to do with the crime, but imagine the hassle you would go through to prove it, when your own DNA links you to the crime. Just think of hiring a lawyer :). I would do my best to minimize the chance of that happening. That was my point.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:50 pm

anticrastinator wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:05 pm
One can come with zillion stories that could potentially happen. Hypothetically: something that has your DNA on it (clothes, cups, bottle, toothpick, Kleenex, glasses, razor, hair, napkin, etc, you get the idea) that somehow ends up at a crime scene. Yeah, chances are you can prove somehow you had nothing to do with the crime, but imagine the hassle you would go through to prove it, when your own DNA links you to the crime. Just think of hiring a lawyer :). I would do my best to minimize the chance of that happening. That was my point.
These scenarios should be no different than just happening to drive past a bank in a green chevy seconds after a bank robber escaped in a green chevy. It's only different if the investigators and courts believe DNA evidence is magical. Competent and ethical police and courts solve everything so much better than special rules for DNA.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by GCD » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:19 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:50 pm
These scenarios should be no different than just happening to drive past a bank in a green chevy seconds after a bank robber escaped in a green chevy. It's only different if the investigators and courts believe DNA evidence is magical. Competent and ethical police and courts solve everything so much better than special rules for DNA.
I think most cops and prosecutors are competent and ethical, but it is by no means a sure thing.

Highlight from the below article: "The review uncovered 19 cases in which DNA evidence was commingled with DNA evidence from other cases." The lab in question has 800 rape cases and thousands of drug cases under review.
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... nd_fraudu/

Google will overwhelm you with screwed up forensic labs.

Check out the Innocence Project website before you go placing too much faith in "competent and ethical police and courts."

I don't think it is "common", but I do think there are thousands of innocent people across the country who have their DNA sitting in various repositories labeled as an unidentified suspect. Once all these databases start to cross reference it's gonna be a mess and very painful to get resolved if you are one of the unlucky ones. I'd give some real life examples, but I've gotten dinged on here for being too graphic before. Family board and all...

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by Epsilon Delta » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 am

GCD wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:19 am
As a retired Fed agent, I think most cops and prosecutors are competent and ethical, but it is by no means a sure thing.

Highlight from the below article: "The review uncovered 19 cases in which DNA evidence was commingled with DNA evidence from other cases." The lab in question has 800 rape cases and thousands of drug cases under review.
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... nd_fraudu/

Google will overwhelm you with screwed up forensic labs.

Check out the Innocence Project website before you go placing too much faith in "competent and ethical police and courts."

I don't think it is "common", but I do think there are thousands of innocent people across the country who have their DNA sitting in various repositories labeled as an unidentified suspect. Once all these databases start to cross reference it's gonna be a mess and very painful to get resolved if you are one of the unlucky ones. I'd give some real life examples, but I've gotten dinged on here for being too graphic before. Family board and all...
Google will overwhelm you with reports of all types of failure by all parts of the Justice system.
There is nothing special about DNA in this respect. Most of the people the innocence project has exonerated were not convicted by DNA. Questionable eyewitness IDs and false confessions seem to be the biggies. Restrictions on DNA would not have helped here. A general improvement in the quality of all parts of the justice system would.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by GCD » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:28 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 am
Most of the people the innocence project has exonerated were not convicted by DNA. Questionable eyewitness IDs and false confessions seem to be the biggies. Restrictions on DNA would not have helped here. A general improvement in the quality of all parts of the justice system would.
Actually, I think most of the effect of DNA with regard to the Innocence Project has been to exonerate people after conviction rather than to falsely convict them in the first place. My point was that reliance on competence and ethical behavior by those entrusted to enforce the law is not going to work out well for a percentage of the population. I should probably have been more explicit about that but I was trying not to ramble.

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Re: FamilyTreeDNA Admits to Sharing Genetic Data

Post by SimonJester » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 am

2cents2 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:38 am
Kindly present one instance in which DNA randomly left some place where a crime is later committed has resulted in an innocent person being convicted. Even some hypothetical scenario in enough detail will do.
Actually, I read a story about a homeless dude being charged with murder because his DNA had turned up at a crime scene. It turned out the the thing that was common to the murder victim and the accused was the same pulse oximeter (from an ambulance) had been used on both of them. It had been used on the homeless guy earlier. Then, it was used on the murder victim when they tried to save him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired. ... murder/amp
What a great article, very interesting read...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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