Are You Dumping Netflix?

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themesrob
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by themesrob »

Absolutely, they're risking losing my business by raising prices!


[waits until Netflix public relations scrolls to next post....Lord no, it's a bargain at twice the price.]
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by TheTimeLord »

bmelikia wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:28 pm I make bigger financial decisions at Taco Bell. . .no, I won't be "dumping" Netflix
+1, I think that puts it in perspective.
Last edited by TheTimeLord on Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexa9
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by Alexa9 »

I find there is nothing I am interested in watching on Cable, Netflix, Amazon anymore. I think the quality of films/TV has gone way down for whatever reason: maybe pirated media and more competition with other forms of entertainment like gaming and youtube.
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by ShaunSCO »

BuckyBadger wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 am
ShaunSCO wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:30 am I'm not dumping Netflix, but will be dropping HBO after Game of Thrones ends.

I simply don't watch it enough outside of that to justify keeping it. All of their shows are eventually on Amazon, anyway.
We get HBO for the duration of GoT and then cancel it again every year. Do that for Veep, too.
Good idea. Inertia keeps me from doing that at the moment...And Westworld
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

themesrob wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:38 am Absolutely, they're risking losing my business by raising prices!


[waits until Netflix public relations scrolls to next post....Lord no, it's a bargain at twice the price.]
They already lost mine. To many depressing shows all the time. I'm done.
BuckyBadger
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by BuckyBadger »

ShaunSCO wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:06 am
BuckyBadger wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:33 am
ShaunSCO wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:30 am I'm not dumping Netflix, but will be dropping HBO after Game of Thrones ends.

I simply don't watch it enough outside of that to justify keeping it. All of their shows are eventually on Amazon, anyway.
We get HBO for the duration of GoT and then cancel it again every year. Do that for Veep, too.
Good idea. Inertia keeps me from doing that at the moment...And Westworld
To be completely fair, we usually forget to cancel it for a month or two, but I've started putting reminders on my calendar!
frugalmama
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by frugalmama »

harvestbook wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:18 pm Considering Netflix provides us far more than we could watch in a lifetime, and half a year costs about what three of us would spend on one trip to the cinema with snacks, we'll keep it.

We do have Prime as well, but we'd have it for the free shipping and free book a month anyway. I haven't had cable in 20 years.
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BuckyBadger
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by BuckyBadger »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:08 am
themesrob wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:38 am Absolutely, they're risking losing my business by raising prices!


[waits until Netflix public relations scrolls to next post....Lord no, it's a bargain at twice the price.]
They already lost mine. To many depressing shows all the time. I'm done.
I also only watch light things these days - and I find Netflix has a lot of wonderful stuff. It's not all Black Mirror!

Shitt's Creek on Netflix is delightful!
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

LFKB wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 pm They could change the price to $40 a month and I’d continue to subscribe. I’d be shocked if they had more than 1% churn as a result of this. Who in the hell cares about $1 to $2 a month?
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

I actually pay for Youtube Premium right now. I can get so much more out of Youtube then I would get ever from Netflix. Shows, music, documentaries (especially German/French ones produced by ARTE), live streams of starting rockets or jazz music, tutorial videos and and and....basically no limit on what to enjoy. I love it.
aristotelian
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by aristotelian »

I am holding Netflix stock. :)

I am currently watching a few shows on Hulu but will happily switch back to Netflix in a month or two. They could double their prices and still be cheaper than cable.
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by BoggledHead2 »

it's +24 dollars a year difference for access to pretty much anything you want to watch.

if this actually matters, you shouldn't have had netflix in the first place. i'm all for saving money, but get a grip. i also view netflix as a way to help justify "staying in" on the weekends, rather than going out for expensive dinners/cocktails all the time. so, in some ways it helps indirectly save me money. it's also convenient and an excellent source of entertainment - and life is to be enjoyed - so, no i haven't thought much about the $2 dollar difference that I'll never actually notice.
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

BoggledHead2 wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:18 am it's +24 dollars a year difference for access to pretty much anything you want to watch.
For me there is not a lot of interesting stuff on Netflix. Gomorrah was the one show I loved to watch though.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by RickBoglehead »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
I'm glad you said that. It always amazes me when people focus on the smaller of the two ($ increase vs. % increase). It's a mind thing though. If you're going to advertise a discount, you always advertise the bigger number, whether that's percent or dollars. Likewise, if it's an increase, you advertise the smaller number.

So saying NetFlix is having a $2 increase gets shrugged off. NetFlix having a 18% increase would not get shrugged off.

This mind thing is why we're all getting taken advantage of (did not put language that LadyGeek would not like :D ) in everything we buy. A pound of coffee is now down to 11 ounces. We pay the "same". Yet if you pay $4 for that 11 ounce can, and you used to pay $4 for a one pound can, that's a 45% increase in price. But because they whittle away at it, cutting an ounce here or a 1/2 ounce there, we don't complain.

My wife bought something the other day, and paid $0.20 more than she should have. She shrugged it off. I pointed out she paid 20% more than she should have. You can imagine her response.

I focus on percentage and absolutes in everything, because I do.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

They spent something like $13B in content last year and plan to spend more this year. The money has to come from somewhere.
Last I looked they still had a negative cash flow (so its not like they are ripping off the folks who think this increase is outrageous).
As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are) - we can't have them cash-flow-negative forever.
Did folks not realize their business model was to attract lots of folks by investing heavily in content and then charging less than what they pay in order to get a large subscriber base?
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:44 am
mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
I'm glad you said that. It always amazes me when people focus on the smaller of the two ($ increase vs. % increase). It's a mind thing though. If you're going to advertise a discount, you always advertise the bigger number, whether that's percent or dollars. Likewise, if it's an increase, you advertise the smaller number.

So saying NetFlix is having a $2 increase gets shrugged off. NetFlix having a 18% increase would not get shrugged off.

This mind thing is why we're all getting taken advantage of (did not put language that LadyGeek would not like :D ) in everything we buy. A pound of coffee is now down to 11 ounces. We pay the "same". Yet if you pay $4 for that 11 ounce can, and you used to pay $4 for a one pound can, that's a 45% increase in price. But because they whittle away at it, cutting an ounce here or a 1/2 ounce there, we don't complain.

My wife bought something the other day, and paid $0.20 more than she should have. She shrugged it off. I pointed out she paid 20% more than she should have. You can imagine her response.

I focus on percentage and absolutes in everything, because I do.
I had kind of the same discussion with my GF the other day. Venmo went up in instant transaction fees from 0.25% to 1%. At first she said thats not a big of a deal until I told her that this is a price increase of 300%. She changed her mind instantly :)
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am
LFKB wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:02 pm They could change the price to $40 a month and I’d continue to subscribe. I’d be shocked if they had more than 1% churn as a result of this. Who in the hell cares about $1 to $2 a month?
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
So if you are overpaying for something and it goes up by 1% you would be fine; but if you were underpaying for something and it goes up by 18% its a call to walk away?
Price out the same amount of content on any other service (or group of service) and you will find NetFlix is the biggest bargain on the market.
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 am They spent something like $13B in content last year and plan to spend more this year. The money has to come from somewhere.
Last I looked they still had a negative cash flow (so its not like they are ripping off the folks who think this increase is outrageous).
As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are) - we can't have them cash-flow-negative forever.
Did folks not realize their business model was to attract lots of folks by investing heavily in content and then charging less than what they pay in order to get a large subscriber base?
I understand the economics behind it and I hope that they will be profitable. All I say is that NF is not worth it for me at all. If it would be $1 I wouldn't buy it.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:55 am
DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 am They spent something like $13B in content last year and plan to spend more this year. The money has to come from somewhere.
Last I looked they still had a negative cash flow (so its not like they are ripping off the folks who think this increase is outrageous).
As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are) - we can't have them cash-flow-negative forever.
Did folks not realize their business model was to attract lots of folks by investing heavily in content and then charging less than what they pay in order to get a large subscriber base?
I understand the economics behind it and I hope that they will be profitable. All I say is that NF is not worth it for me at all. If it would be $1 I wouldn't buy it.
NetFlix might not be worth it to you but you made the same statement about Venmo - their transaction fee is very tiny compared to the competition - they raise to get closer - and you are outraged.
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AllMostThere
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by AllMostThere »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 am They spent something like $13B in content last year and plan to spend more this year. The money has to come from somewhere.
Last I looked they still had a negative cash flow (so its not like they are ripping off the folks who think this increase is outrageous).
As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are) - we can't have them cash-flow-negative forever.
Did folks not realize their business model was to attract lots of folks by investing heavily in content and then charging less than what they pay in order to get a large subscriber base?
I agree, they cannot be a sustainable business forever with a negative cash flow. I would speculate that the next pricing change would venture down the path of paid advertising. Even if limited in quantity, as subscribers, we would be forced to watch these limited "commercials" with the option to pay upcharge to go commercial free (can you say HULU). Any value would be diminished if they go down this path. :twisted:
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

No. As long as Netflix provide something that I want to watch.

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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:57 am
NetFlix might not be worth it to you but you made the same statement about Venmo - their transaction fee is very tiny compared to the competition - they raise to get closer - and you are outraged.
Venmo is quite expensive compared to the free Zelle I can use with lots of banks. Its instant and free. So no need to pay for a service here :happy
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by H-Town »

RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:44 am
mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
I'm glad you said that. It always amazes me when people focus on the smaller of the two ($ increase vs. % increase). It's a mind thing though. If you're going to advertise a discount, you always advertise the bigger number, whether that's percent or dollars. Likewise, if it's an increase, you advertise the smaller number.

So saying NetFlix is having a $2 increase gets shrugged off. NetFlix having a 18% increase would not get shrugged off.

This mind thing is why we're all getting taken advantage of (did not put language that LadyGeek would not like :D ) in everything we buy. A pound of coffee is now down to 11 ounces. We pay the "same". Yet if you pay $4 for that 11 ounce can, and you used to pay $4 for a one pound can, that's a 45% increase in price. But because they whittle away at it, cutting an ounce here or a 1/2 ounce there, we don't complain.

My wife bought something the other day, and paid $0.20 more than she should have. She shrugged it off. I pointed out she paid 20% more than she should have. You can imagine her response.

I focus on percentage and absolutes in everything, because I do.
Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish.

The average new car price is rising towards 30k. I remember 10 years ago it was around 20k. Talk about percentage or absolute all you want, but if you make a single mistake with big dollar item (car, house, vacation, etc.) and all your penny pinching will be undone.
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themesrob
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by themesrob »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:08 am
themesrob wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:38 am Absolutely, they're risking losing my business by raising prices!


[waits until Netflix public relations scrolls to next post....Lord no, it's a bargain at twice the price.]
They already lost mine. To many depressing shows all the time. I'm done.
I mean, it's more uplifting than watching the news at the moment...
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quantAndHold
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by quantAndHold »

Focusing on the percentage or even the dollar amount of the increase is a form of anchoring. The real question is, compared to the cost and what you get for all of the forms of entertainment available in 2019, is what I receive from Netflix worth what I spend on it, or would my money be better spent on something else (or nothing at all, of course)?

The cost of a Netflix streaming subscription has clearly outpaced inflation. But, what Netflix streaming offers is very different than it was back in the $8/month days. We watch 30-50 hours of Netflix every month, and are in no danger of running out of things to watch. Back in the day when Netflix was $8, this was definitely not the case.
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

H-Town wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:04 am Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish.

The average new car price is rising towards 30k. I remember 10 years ago it was around 20k. Talk about percentage or absolute all you want, but if you make a single mistake with big dollar item (car, house, vacation, etc.) and all your penny pinching will be undone.
+1 of course. But good habits start with small things. For me it doesn't matter if we talk about cents or the big dollar. Better be penny and pound wise :)
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

quantAndHold wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:08 am Focusing on the percentage or even the dollar amount of the increase is a form of anchoring. The real question is, compared to the cost and what you get for all of the forms of entertainment available in 2019, is what I receive from Netflix worth what I spend on it, or would my money be better spent on something else (or nothing at all, of course)?
Yes, and thats why I happily pay for YT Premium and also would stick to it if they would raise the fee.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:03 am
DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:57 am
NetFlix might not be worth it to you but you made the same statement about Venmo - their transaction fee is very tiny compared to the competition - they raise to get closer - and you are outraged.
Venmo is quite expensive compared to the free Zelle I can use with lots of banks. Its instant and free. So no need to pay for a service here :happy
Imagine when Zelle starts charging you (they can't provide free service for ever either - unless the banks that hold them as part of a holding company continue to accept the loss) - that will be an INFINITE price increase.
Last edited by SmileyFace on Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
JBeck
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by JBeck »

lexie2000 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:06 pm Netflix announced today that they will be increasing their subscription rates. The basic plan will increase 12.5% (from $7.99 to $8.99). The standard plan will increase 18.2% (from $10.99 to 12.99). The top-tier plan will increase 14.3% (from $13.99 to $15.99). We have been considering getting a firestick and dropping Netflix. What say you?
18% is a lot, but $2 is not enough for me to care.
TSWNY
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by TSWNY »

Netflix going up $2 a month is not enough for me to even notice. We get so much value out of Netflix that $12.99 is a steal for us and if it every stressed me out that much ten maybe I would just buy one less 6-pack of my favorite IPA a month.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

Cable company makes tons of money charging folks like my Grandmother $250 a month. They increase by $5 a month and she barely notices - just accepts it as what has to be. Cable company has historically been flush with tons of cash.
NetFlix charges less than what it pays for content - pours $13B into content, $5B into its own originals, charges a fraction of what historic providers have charged, and then makes a small increase so that it isn't bleeding quite as much money as it did last year - and some Bogleheads are surprised or even outraged.
:shock:
aristotelian
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by aristotelian »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 am Cable company makes tons of money charging folks like my Grandmother $250 a month. They increase by $5 a month and she barely notices - just accepts it as what has to be. Cable company has historically been flush with tons of cash.
NetFlix charges less than what it pays for content - pours $13B into content, $5B into its own originals, charges a fraction of what historic providers have charged, and then makes a small increase so that it isn't bleeding quite as much money as it did last year - and some Bogleheads are surprised or even outraged.
:shock:
Lol, but the cable increase is only 2%. What a great deal! The cable companies must really care about their customers, and Netflix are the bad guys!
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by JackoC »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:09 am
H-Town wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:04 am Don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish.

The average new car price is rising towards 30k. I remember 10 years ago it was around 20k. Talk about percentage or absolute all you want, but if you make a single mistake with big dollar item (car, house, vacation, etc.) and all your penny pinching will be undone.
+1 of course. But good habits start with small things. For me it doesn't matter if we talk about cents or the big dollar. Better be penny and pound wise :)
But this is basically a behavioral economics not rational economics explanation. 'Behavioral' being kind of a polite way of saying many people aren't rational in a lot of their economic decisions. Virtually nobody is in all of them. But many or at least some people are rational in many of their economic decisions. $2/mo does not amount to a hill of beans for us and there's no reason for that obvious fact to make us less careful with large purchases that do amount to a hill of beans for us (to the extent there are any).

Plus, when you consider yes or no on a unique product, neither absolute $ nor % increase is the whole story. It's not a gas station charging $0.20/gal than another a few miles away (some people definitely get carried away gas price shopping, but my point is there are sometimes better deals for basically the same thing). There is not a direct substitute for Netflix. So it's mainly a question of having it or having something at least somewhat different or less. You have to evaluate what Netflix is worth to you (other people's opinions not so relevant). It's just, rationally, not worth as much soul searching on that v something that would ever move the needle on one's financial position, itself, not just as some irrational knock on effect of 'habits'. Frankly we make almost no spending decisions now that move the financial needle for us. We have our house, we buy pretty expensive cars but that's not financially significant for us, kids are done with education, etc. But many people are making 'needle moving' spending decisions and thus prioritizing the big ones is important, from a strictly rational POV. Netflix isn't one except for people in quite rough financial shape.

That still doesn't mean nobody should dump Netflix though. If it doesn't provide value to you relative to its price, don't have it. I agree with other posts though suggesting that in this case pointing to % increase is a form of anchoring, not really rational analysis. The business model of these outfits evolves, and to some degree they use a loss leader strategy to build market share they think they can hold by adding more value (original content in this case) as they later raise prices relatively fast. It's no surprise to me Netflix subscription cost would rise faster than inflation.
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mindgap
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by mindgap »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 am Cable company makes tons of money charging folks like my Grandmother $250 a month. They increase by $5 a month and she barely notices - just accepts it as what has to be. Cable company has historically been flush with tons of cash.
NetFlix charges less than what it pays for content - pours $13B into content, $5B into its own originals, charges a fraction of what historic providers have charged, and then makes a small increase so that it isn't bleeding quite as much money as it did last year - and some Bogleheads are surprised or even outraged.
:shock:
If you are employed ask your boss for a raise. Tell him you want 18% more starting now because all your expenses are so high. If he argues about the amount tell him that those 18% for you (whatever it is in money value) is just a small fraction of the companies yearly profit. After you are are done come back and tell me what he told you :)
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:04 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 am Cable company makes tons of money charging folks like my Grandmother $250 a month. They increase by $5 a month and she barely notices - just accepts it as what has to be. Cable company has historically been flush with tons of cash.
NetFlix charges less than what it pays for content - pours $13B into content, $5B into its own originals, charges a fraction of what historic providers have charged, and then makes a small increase so that it isn't bleeding quite as much money as it did last year - and some Bogleheads are surprised or even outraged.
:shock:
If you are employed ask your boss for a raise. Tell him you want 18% more starting now because all your expenses are so high. If he argues about the amount tell him that those 18% for you (whatever it is in money value) is just a small fraction of the companies yearly profit. After you are are done come back and tell me what he told you :)
Something similar has happened (although not in the order you describe) at two different companies I have worked for. We determined our employees rates had not kept up with the market, company was profitable, and to avoid attrition we did an out-of-cycle salary increase for a number of employees to get them back up to market rates. We didn't look at percentage increase - we looked at salary data for our industry - some employees got 0% increase and some got, yes, as high as 18%. I supposed in your world we would have simply given them all a 3.5% raise (the average salary increase for that year).
Worrying about an 18% price increase might make sense for a staple item like a loaf of bread but you need to understand the economics of something like NetFlix services (or Vemno/Zelle, etc.).
Put a value on what you are getting - yes - look at percentage increases - but you need to look beyond it - you are overly simplifying.
I'm guessing NetFlix has figured this out and will lose FAR LESS than 18% of its subscribers over this.
alter
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by alter »

I dropped Netflix a while back and have Prime and Hulu now and have never missed it. Netflix isn't really that great and it has a ton of competition now. They are stupid to raise prices even more.
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by jhfenton »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 am As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are)
To the best of my knowledge, at the moment, none of our mutual funds or ETFs own Netflix.

That will change next week when I finally start adding a tiny bit to a Fidelity S&P 500 fund in my 401(k).

Our current U.S. holdings:

VFMFX (Vanguard US Multifactor Admiral)
VFVA (Vanguard US Value Factor ETF)
VMVAX (Vanguard Mid Cap Value Index Admiral) (my 401(k))
DFSTX (DFA US Small Cap I) (my 401(k))
DFSVX (DFA US Small Cap Value I) (wife's 401(k))
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:28 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:47 am As investors in NetFlix (which all Bogleheads are)
To the best of my knowledge, at the moment, none of our mutual funds or ETFs own Netflix.

That will change next week when I finally start adding a tiny bit to a Fidelity S&P 500 fund in my 401(k).

Our current U.S. holdings:

VFMFX (Vanguard US Multifactor Admiral)
VFVA (Vanguard US Value Factor ETF)
VMVAX (Vanguard Mid Cap Value Index Admiral) (my 401(k))
DFSTX (DFA US Small Cap I) (my 401(k))
DFSVX (DFA US Small Cap Value I) (wife's 401(k))
I said "all bogleheads" are investors in NetFlix. I guess I would venture to say you aren't really currently a boglehead then :)

Bogleheads = Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle = Holding total market or at least S&P500; and S&P500 includes NetFlix.
Unless I missed the Bogle book where he changed from holding-the-total-market to going with Value Factors,, etc.
fsrph
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by fsrph »

I'll chime in and say I'm considering dropping Netflix. It's not about the current rate increase, I just don't use it much. They have tons of shows to choose from but not many that hold my interest. Will I miss not seeing a show or two? Sure. But overall I don't think I'll miss Netflix.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by TheTimeLord »

mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:49 am
RickBoglehead wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:44 am
mindgap wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am
For me its always about the percentage value and 18% is a lot. I don't care if its cents or dollar. But thats just me :)
I'm glad you said that. It always amazes me when people focus on the smaller of the two ($ increase vs. % increase). It's a mind thing though. If you're going to advertise a discount, you always advertise the bigger number, whether that's percent or dollars. Likewise, if it's an increase, you advertise the smaller number.

So saying NetFlix is having a $2 increase gets shrugged off. NetFlix having a 18% increase would not get shrugged off.

This mind thing is why we're all getting taken advantage of (did not put language that LadyGeek would not like :D ) in everything we buy. A pound of coffee is now down to 11 ounces. We pay the "same". Yet if you pay $4 for that 11 ounce can, and you used to pay $4 for a one pound can, that's a 45% increase in price. But because they whittle away at it, cutting an ounce here or a 1/2 ounce there, we don't complain.

My wife bought something the other day, and paid $0.20 more than she should have. She shrugged it off. I pointed out she paid 20% more than she should have. You can imagine her response.

I focus on percentage and absolutes in everything, because I do.
I had kind of the same discussion with my GF the other day. Venmo went up in instant transaction fees from 0.25% to 1%. At first she said thats not a big of a deal until I told her that this is a price increase of 300%. She changed her mind instantly :)
She fell for that? A good or a service has a value to you, if the price is greater than the value you perceive don't buy or use it, if the price is less than or equal to then you are getting a fair deal.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
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jhfenton
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by jhfenton »

DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm I said "all bogleheads" are investors in NetFlix. I guess I would venture to say you aren't really currently a boglehead then :)

Bogleheads = Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle = Holding total market or at least S&P500; and S&P500 includes NetFlix.
Unless I missed the Bogle book where he changed from holding-the-total-market to going with Value Factors,, etc.
You're saying that I'm a BINO? :mrgreen: We're also 50% ex-US with half of that in emerging markets!

There are quite a few of us slicers-and-dicers on Bogleheads. We still believe in low-cost passive investing and staying the course. :beer

We started investing in 1998, and our first outside investments were small cap value and emerging markets funds. There was no way I was going to buy into the middle of what was obviously a massive bubble. It paid off then, and I've stuck with it to varying degrees for 20 years.

I don't advocate it for anyone else who doesn't have my temperament. To anyone who asks, I suggest broad market index funds.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SmileyFace »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:03 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:35 pm I said "all bogleheads" are investors in NetFlix. I guess I would venture to say you aren't really currently a boglehead then :)

Bogleheads = Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle = Holding total market or at least S&P500; and S&P500 includes NetFlix.
Unless I missed the Bogle book where he changed from holding-the-total-market to going with Value Factors,, etc.
You're saying that I'm a BINO? :mrgreen: We're also 50% ex-US with half of that in emerging markets!

There are quite a few of us slicers-and-dicers on Bogleheads. We still believe in low-cost passive investing and staying the course. :beer

We started investing in 1998, and our first outside investments were small cap value and emerging markets funds. There was no way I was going to buy into the middle of what was obviously a massive bubble. It paid off then, and I've stuck with it to varying degrees for 20 years.

I don't advocate it for anyone else who doesn't have my temperament. To anyone who asks, I suggest broad market index funds.
I just noticed your Avatar - it says it all :)
WhiteMaxima
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by WhiteMaxima »

Why? just save a cost of cup of coffee per month. I would say Netflix value is at at least min $25/month.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by CyclingDuo »

lexie2000 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:06 pm Netflix announced today that they will be increasing their subscription rates. The basic plan will increase 12.5% (from $7.99 to $8.99). The standard plan will increase 18.2% (from $10.99 to 12.99). The top-tier plan will increase 14.3% (from $13.99 to $15.99). We have been considering getting a firestick and dropping Netflix. What say you?
Big whoopdeedoo! So we end up paying the equivalent of one mid-priced grocery store bottle of wine more per year for Netflix compared to the past year.

It's the big three expenses in life that matter - housing, transportation, food - not the little stuff like Netflix.
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel | "Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
bradpevans
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by bradpevans »

I'm massively up on NFLX.
One *reason* i've never sold off any is that cost per month is so low. If your budget gets tight, eating out is a lot more money than Netflix. Additionally, their marginal cost per subscriber is quite low. So, i'm subscribing and holding
dave_k
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by dave_k »

No. A lot of value for the money.

Besides, I just calculated that the bump in their stock price will pay for the increase for about a decade for us (through holdings in index funds)! If this happens every few years we'll come out ahead :wink:. Of course that assumes the bump is permanent, but at least some of it should be since their earnings should go up. And of course that assumes most people will not cancel, but the responses here indicate that even frugal people are unlikely to.
SoonerD
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SoonerD »

H-Town wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:35 pm
SoonerD wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm i distinctly remember our inhuman resources department telling me raises are based on the cost of labor not on inflation. this they said to justify not giving raises that year.
Human Resources do what they are told to do. You bark at the wrong tree.
I thought iHR was at the top of the org-chart. Now I see the light. thank you. I'm not a dog, I don't bark.
SoonerD wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm anyway, i guess inflation in h-town was 18% last year?
You guessed wrong. I think their 18% price inflation influenced my guess
SoonerD wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:20 pm I wonder if the Netflix employees in h-town will also get an 18% raise since that's the "raise" corporate earned this year?
They should get the raise they deserve. The bottom line goes to the stockholders.
the raise they deserve! Your earlier post conflated the pay raise with inflation. Now it's about deserving it. That seems like exactly what corporate leadership wants us to believe. As in, the benevolent corporate master will treat you fairly and give you exactly what you deserve. If you're not happy with your 0 - 2% raise (while we increased revenue 18%) just work harder.
SoonerD
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by SoonerD »

The following is not directed at any BH. This is a general observation and WAG.

Seeing so many corporate apologists on the internet I wouldn't be surprised if companies hire internet trolls to manipulate public opinion. They might write things like "an 10% increase is small, only pennies a day" and "when you work hard you think you deserve a raise so why can't companies just get raises too - it's just pennies a day". With a few dozen well placed manipulators they could sway the unthinking public into believing huge price increases are just like Joe Lunchbox getting a $1.00/hour raise at the coal mine.

I know that's so far fetched it's absurd to think it out loud.

It's beyond me why, uncompensated, people defend corporate actions.

While it's true that a $2/month increase seems small but ignoring that it's 10-20% of the prior price is exactly what the corporate beasts wants you to do. Yes if you get the big stuff right (don't buy too much house - though almost everyone fails here, even those who claim they did it right) then you can easily afford $2/mo more for service X. But again that misses the point, to me, corporations want us to think in terms of "pennies per day" and not calculate it as a 20% price increase. Death by a thousand cuts!

I get that people like their services otherwise they wouldn't be customers. I don't get why, uncompensated, people act as if they worked for corporate marketing departments - this includes comments defending Vanguard or any other corporation. I agree with correcting misinformation, not defending or marketing on behalf of corporations.
student
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by student »

I am not.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Are You Dumping Netflix?

Post by TheTimeLord »

SoonerD wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:34 pm The following is not directed at any BH. This is a general observation and WAG.

Seeing so many corporate apologists on the internet I wouldn't be surprised if companies hire internet trolls to manipulate public opinion. They might write things like "an 10% increase is small, only pennies a day" and "when you work hard you think you deserve a raise so why can't companies just get raises too - it's just pennies a day". With a few dozen well placed manipulators they could sway the unthinking public into believing huge price increases are just like Joe Lunchbox getting a $1.00/hour raise at the coal mine.

I know that's so far fetched it's absurd to think it out loud.

It's beyond me why, uncompensated, people defend corporate actions.

While it's true that a $2/month increase seems small but ignoring that it's 10-20% of the prior price is exactly what the corporate beasts wants you to do. Yes if you get the big stuff right (don't buy too much house - though almost everyone fails here, even those who claim they did it right) then you can easily afford $2/mo more for service X. But again that misses the point, to me, corporations want us to think in terms of "pennies per day" and not calculate it as a 20% price increase. Death by a thousand cuts!

I get that people like their services otherwise they wouldn't be customers. I don't get why, uncompensated, people act as if they worked for corporate marketing departments - this includes comments defending Vanguard or any other corporation. I agree with correcting misinformation, not defending or marketing on behalf of corporations.
Since I don't want service that just shows me reruns of the Andy Griffith Show, I expect them to invest in creating and licensing new content. That isn't cheap and with the rise of additional streaming services the price and competition for content is getting more and more aggressive. So they will either invest the price increases wisely and increase the quality of the content thus increasing the value of the service and that will lead to an increase in subscribers or they will waste the money the value proposition will deteriorate and they will lose subscribers to other services and die. Netflix is in a race and money is the fuel they either borrow it or raise prices its called business and it is risky.
The Economist projected on June 30 that Netflix will spend $12-13 billion on original programming this year. That’s much more than the $8 billion it planned to spend as of October 2017. It would also be vastly more than legacy studios are spending: HBO spent $2.5 billion on content in 2017, and even CBS spent just $4 billion.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
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