Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

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Keepcalm
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Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:42 pm

So, I grew up on a lake. I am just fine in a kayak. However I have never kayaked with a Canon 5DIV and a 100-400 II....

With that said, what is the point of having this caliber of equipment if your not going to use it?

I am going on a kayak tour down the Myakka River in FL tomorrow. Should be a lot of gators on the banks.

Two questions..

Would you bring it...and for river photos in a kayak could I get away with a 24-70 or should I really take the 100-400?

livesoft
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by livesoft » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:55 pm

No, I would not. I would bring my G5X and carry it in a dry bag or Pelican case. It has a f/1.8 24 - 100 mm equiv lens, 20 Megapixel, yada-yada-yada.

I'd leave my dSLR and L lenses at home.
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Topic Author
Keepcalm
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:58 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:55 pm
No, I would not. I would bring my G5X and carry it in a dry bag or Pelican case.
I was feeling the same...but I have received comments before about buying it and not using it. Sometimes the best pictures require you to put your equipment in potential harms way mind set.

livesoft
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by livesoft » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:59 pm

I would use my dSLR kit for sports photography and other activities where I would not have a chance of dropping it in the water. I've dropped a few cameras in the water already.
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bhsince87
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by bhsince87 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:02 pm

Have you ever tried to balance yourself with that camera and lens combo up at your face?

If so, then yes, I'd take it. The combo isn't waterproof, but it is "weather resistant". It would probably survive a quick dunk in water.

And you will want the longer lens in that situation, IMO.
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Keepcalm
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:03 pm

bhsince87 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:02 pm
Have you ever tried to balance yourself with that camera and lens combo up at your face?

If so, then yes, I'd take it. The combo isn't waterproof, but it is "weather resistant". It would probably survive a quick dunk in water.

And you will want the longer lens in that situation, IMO.
No most Im use to is my 5DIV and 24-70....it would be my first trip with the 100-400.

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Alexa9
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:06 pm

If you have a sturdy kayak and the river or lake is very calm, you might do it at your own risk. Assuming you can afford to easily replace it. Carry a waterproof bag for getting in and out of the kayak.

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snackdog
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by snackdog » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:31 pm

I would consider -

1) how many times I have lost control of the kayak and tipped out
2) what my insurance deductible is
3) how much I have to gain from the photos I may get.

I would probably do it if the wind and river are calm. I have the same combo. If I ruined it I would use it as an excuse to upgrade.

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Watty
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Watty » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Keepcalm wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:42 pm
Should be a lot of gators on the banks.
I don't think that they will just be on the banks. If you fall in the water you may have more to be concerned about than your camera. :D

Keepcalm wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:42 pm
Would you bring it...and for river photos in a kayak could I get away with a 24-70 or should I really take the 100-400?
No, I might on a flat bottom boat but not a kayak.

I have been there and the area we were in was more like a lake than a river and if you are in that area you could also have some issues with wind. If you are in more of a river area then you could be drifting and concentrating on your photography and run into a tree when you are looking the other way.

I don't know if it will be running this time of year but they have pontoon boats that held around 25 people that you can ride around the lake on which is what we did. After you do the kayak tour you might take one of the pontoon boat rides late in the day to do your photography and you would be fine with your camera on that.

texasdiver
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by texasdiver » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:51 pm

Get a waterproof housing. Wide variety of options from those designed for surface use to those designed for deep diving that are hugely more expensive

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?c ... 4183191453&

But honestly for half the price of a budget SLR housing you can buy a waterproof point and shoot camera https://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Waterpro ... B0711C1R4X that will be MUCH easier to use on a kayak.

quantAndHold
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by quantAndHold » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm

I created a camera bag out of a dry bag and some padding. I carry it between my knees, then open it up and get the camera out when I’m ready to shoot.

I’ve missed some wildlife shots because I was still unrollling the bag, but a few missed shots is better that than a wet camera. When getting in and out, or in rough water, it would stay sealed.

I also used a Sony RX100 in a $200 waterproof housing that I got on Amazon. I missed fewer shots, but for wildlife, I always wanted more reach.

TN_Boy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:02 pm

Keepcalm wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:58 pm
livesoft wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:55 pm
No, I would not. I would bring my G5X and carry it in a dry bag or Pelican case.
I was feeling the same...but I have received comments before about buying it and not using it. Sometimes the best pictures require you to put your equipment in potential harms way mind set.
There are a lot of places you can use your camera that don't risk dropping a lot of $$ in the water.

To take a picture. you'll have to secure the paddle, then get the camera up. Easy for something to go wrong if you are in a hurry, or the water is not calm.

I will say if the water is calm and you are good on a kayak, you could make it work, but I'm guessing a pro would have a waterproof housing. Because pros want to get shots too, but they don't want to destroy expensive equipment either.

And I'm not sure the 24-70 lens will get you the reach you want. Though with your camera, you have enough pixels to crop a good bit.

MarkBarb
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by MarkBarb » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:11 pm

I take my camera gear in my canoe all the time. My wife and I have been canoeing for 25 years and have never tipped over the canoe. As for a kayak, it would depend on how stable the boat is. I wouldn't wear a baseball cap in my wife's racing kayak. That thing hates people. On the other hand, I've spent time in lots of kayaks that would take a lot of work to flip.

If this is something new to you or the river has a considerable current, I'd leave the gear at home or put it in a dry bag. Once you are comfortable, you should be the best judge of the risk.

Incidentally, hand-holding at 400mm on the water is a bit of a challenge. I'd make sure to keep your shutter speed at 1/1000 or faster.

stimulacra
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by stimulacra » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:55 pm

In a recent post you were contemplating a side hustle of renting your Canon lenses out to strangers, wondering if its a good idea. Seems odd that you would be concerned about the risk of traveling with a dSLR and taking it through TSA or taking it on a kayak.

I would do a dry bag.

goodlifer
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by goodlifer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:11 am

I take my cell phone in a ziploc bag to take pics on the kayak because even though I have not flipped a kayak yet, it just means that I'm due for a flipping. I lean towards the "if it can happen, it will even it if has never happened before" . I even fill my bag up with air and put my husband's phone # and address in it just in case. If I'm by my cottage it will probably be mailed back to me. If I'm near home, forget it. It is gone or in a pawn shop.

Do you expect to get shots of alligators that no one has ever seen before or you will win a contest of some sort? If not, keep the set up at home and use your cell phone for pics. If in a contest, be in it to win it.

Cruise
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Cruise » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:46 am

If your concern is droppin the camera, I can tell you a solution I have used: I went to a climbing/mountaineering store, got heavy-duty strapping that I sling across my shoulder an chest. I then attach a nylon cord to the camera, and join the two via a flexible cord and D clip. No way that camera is accidentally going far from my body.

28fe6
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by 28fe6 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 am

I don't know why people still use DSLRs outside the studio to be honest. I know you already have it, but modern mirrorless, P&S, and cell phone cameras have gotten so good the SLR is practically an anachronism. Except for long lenses I guess.

If I were going on a kayak trip I would literally take a waterproof disposable 35mm camera, and not have to stress about my camera equipment. I take those on beach trips and get great shots.

oysterboy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by oysterboy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:41 am

As mentioned earlier, that 100-400L is going to be heavy and difficult to stabilize in a kayak, and risky to secure. I don't know how much secure space you have for storing it when you're not using it, so could feel like a hassle. I use mine a lot in a 12' pontoon fishing boat and it's fine if there's no wind, but if there is a breeze, it takes a lot of fast shots to get a tack sharp image; and if you're not worried about serious sharpness, why not take a lesser camera? I've compromised by going with the new 70-200 f/4 II, which is far lighter and has legitimate 5-stop IS. As for dropping it in water, I do worry and am very careful, but I have photographer friends who have lost them in water when not attached to them. As for using the 24-70, I think you will be frustrated, even with the great cropping ability with the 30 MP 5DlV. You're not going to get very close to those gators in a kayak. I'd get a nice P&S with at least 100MM equivalent reach. I think you'll be pleased with the peace of mind and ease of use.

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Keepcalm
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:22 am

call it fate possibly but the tour had to be rescheduled on their end.

maybe I was bound to end up capsized and staring at the snout of a gator today.

so I guess thank you for the feedback but I will not be going =\

instead I will try out my new 100-400 (newest beta II) today on some bird in flights and sand cranes.

hoping I really like the lens..it was not cheap.

marstaton4
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by marstaton4 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:39 am

I'd say bring it on the next opportunity. Check out Storm Cases. They are made by the same company that makes Pelican Cases and they are waterproof and should float, but heavy and cumbersome. This is a good way to store your gear and not have to worry about it getting damaged.

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BoglePaul
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by BoglePaul » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:42 am

If I was in a kayak I would want to focus on the safety of my family (and self) and not be distracted with a camera. I can always replace the camera.

oysterboy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by oysterboy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:50 am

Keepcalm wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:22 am
call it fate possibly but the tour had to be rescheduled on their end.

maybe I was bound to end up capsized and staring at the snout of a gator today.

so I guess thank you for the feedback but I will not be going =\

instead I will try out my new 100-400 (newest beta II) today on some bird in flights and sand cranes.

hoping I really like the lens..it was not cheap.
You will love the lens. I have many (too many), and it is my favorite. After getting used to it, you will probably want to get an extender for even greater reach. I use the 1.5x and it works beautifully. Have fun.

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:10 am

In a quarter century of track driving in various racecars, I've never had a car catch on fire. Yet I wear a fire suit.

Saying you've been kayaking for 25 years and never tipped over is meaningless. Assume you and your camera are going overboard. Now have a plan where that works out well for you.
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TN_Boy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:40 am

28fe6 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 am
I don't know why people still use DSLRs outside the studio to be honest. I know you already have it, but modern mirrorless, P&S, and cell phone cameras have gotten so good the SLR is practically an anachronism. Except for long lenses I guess.

If I were going on a kayak trip I would literally take a waterproof disposable 35mm camera, and not have to stress about my camera equipment. I take those on beach trips and get great shots.
Well, no :happy. Every time there is a camera thread, a poster will chime in and make a claim like "cell phone cameras have gotten so good the SLR is practically an anachronism." I won't go into the all reasons why that's wrong, but this is an utterly false statement for a large set of picture taking situations.

An interchangeable lens mirrorless camera is a direct competitor to dSLRs, with most of the same advantages and disadvantages; not sure where you were going with that.

I have a compact waterproof camera I"d use from a kayak; from a bigger more stable boat I'd use a more serious camera, with precautions to keep from dropping the camera, and keeping it dry.

Poster MarkBarb makes a good point. When taking shots from something moving (like a kayak ...) to get sharp shots you need to ensure you have enough shutter speed. This might require bumping the ISO up, if the day is not fairly bright.

OP,

Sorry the kayaking got cancelled, hope the birding is/was good!

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Sandtrap » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:48 am

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:55 pm
No, I would not. I would bring my G5X and carry it in a dry bag or Pelican case. It has a f/1.8 24 - 100 mm equiv lens, 20 Megapixel, yada-yada-yada.

I'd leave my dSLR and L lenses at home.
+1
Unless you are taking the shots professionally for $$$$ where the resolution and image quality will be screened, use a high quality waterproof compact or other. Keep it in a ziplock bag until needed. Extra large ziplock with a block of foam so if it goes overboard it will float.
Options are the Nikon or Canon SX series "superzooms" but, a bit pricey if you drop it in the water.

I know quite a few "photographers" that have spent $$$$$$$$$$ on various cameras and lenses and rarely use them.
By all means, use camera's daily to develop one's craft. But, like tools, each one has a time and place (risk tolerance) for best use.

So, adjust your allocation.
Camera's that are expensive, high quality images, not expendable / Camera's that are expendable and a compromise between use and risk.
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Atgard
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Atgard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:13 am

TN_Boy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:40 am
28fe6 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:31 am
I don't know why people still use DSLRs outside the studio to be honest. I know you already have it, but modern mirrorless, P&S, and cell phone cameras have gotten so good the SLR is practically an anachronism. Except for long lenses I guess.

If I were going on a kayak trip I would literally take a waterproof disposable 35mm camera, and not have to stress about my camera equipment. I take those on beach trips and get great shots.
Well, no :happy. Every time there is a camera thread, a poster will chime in and make a claim like "cell phone cameras have gotten so good the SLR is practically an anachronism." I won't go into the all reasons why that's wrong, but this is an utterly false statement for a large set of picture taking situations.

An interchangeable lens mirrorless camera is a direct competitor to dSLRs, with most of the same advantages and disadvantages; not sure where you were going with that.
Exactly, someone always has to jump in to say that cell phone cameras are just as good as DSLRs. I wonder why all the pro (and many amateur) photographers still lug around heavy DSLRs? If you're happy with your phone camera, that's great, but why try to tell wildlife photographers they're dumb for carrying DSLRs? (Hint: almost all pro photographers have also used phone cameras, but most phone users have never learned how to use a DSLR.)

There are some excellent mirrorless cameras out there, but as you say, they are more similar to than different from DSLRs these days. Sure, the body is smaller, but stick a 100-400 lens on there and you still have a large piece of gear anyway.

Personally, I would be very nervous taking my gear in a kayak, but I am not a kayaker, so it depends on your comfort level I think. I do agree the equipment is there to be used if you think the risk is minimal, but not if there's a decent chance you end up underwater. I do think you'll want the 100-400 over the 24-70 though, even if you COULD get close enough to gators to use the shorter lens, you don't want to. :sharebeer

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by barnaclebob » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:23 am

Since its a tour (I'm assuming with a tour company) You'll probably be on pretty stable kayaks and the most common issue will be from splashes. I'd put it in a waterproof bag between my knees.

quantAndHold
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by quantAndHold » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:10 am
In a quarter century of track driving in various racecars, I've never had a car catch on fire. Yet I wear a fire suit.

Saying you've been kayaking for 25 years and never tipped over is meaningless. Assume you and your camera are going overboard. Now have a plan where that works out well for you.
An experienced kayaker in a rental kayak on calm water is not in the same league as driving a race car. The biggest danger is falling in when getting in and out of the kayak. Once you’re in a rental kayak (which are built for stability to the point where they’re hard to turn), you have to work very hard to flip them. They’re not very maneuverable, but passing ocean liners just make them bob up and down.

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by PrettyCoolWorkshop » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:10 am
In a quarter century of track driving in various racecars, I've never had a car catch on fire. Yet I wear a fire suit.

Saying you've been kayaking for 25 years and never tipped over is meaningless. Assume you and your camera are going overboard. Now have a plan where that works out well for you.
An experienced kayaker in a rental kayak on calm water is not in the same league as driving a race car. The biggest danger is falling in when getting in and out of the kayak. Once you’re in a rental kayak (which are built for stability to the point where they’re hard to turn), you have to work very hard to flip them. They’re not very maneuverable, but passing ocean liners just make them bob up and down.
Burning to death in a crashed race car is a much more critical failure than seeing yourself and your camera take a drink. May your risk tolerance guide you.
Be greedy and fearful. All the time.

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Keepcalm
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:42 pm

Tried my 100-400 out for the first time today. Decided to stay on land. Here are a few shots!

Handheld..next time might try a monopod. Any feedback on a monopod and its usefulness vs handheld would be great! It has 3 stages of IS and its going to be a learning curve in itself using this lens.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm

I'd imagine you'll have an opportunity to reschedule your tour, so I'll weigh in on the original question:

Yes, I definitely would. Depending on the expected conditions, I might consider a backup body instead*, but either way, within reason given my ability to afford to replace it, I'm willing to accept some level of risk to my photo equipment for photo opportunities I find compelling.

For a serious trip, I'd buy a good wet bag to store the camera and both a wide and a telephoto lens in, and practice handling it while on a kayak before the trip in order to better do so safely during the trip.

I'd also plan ahead which conditions I won't take it out in, just like I have planned ahead not to respond to phone calls or texts while driving, making the temptation to do so less compelling in the moment when it actually occurs.

I might also consider leashing it to the kayak or a float while out of the bag. If I go in, the camera might not survive, but the memory cards almost certainly will.

* Currently, my main body is old enough I'm considering updating, so I wouldn't even bother with my even older backup. In general though, I consider my main body one of several options, also including my pocket camera, or no camera - Although photography is a much enjoyed hobby, sometimes it does distract from enjoying an experience in other ways, so sometimes I deliberately bring no camera on a trip.

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Watty
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Watty » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:23 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm
I might also consider leashing it to the kayak or a float while out of the bag. If I go in, the camera might not survive, but the memory cards almost certainly will.
That could be a tricky choice. A lost camera might be covered by insurance but a ruined wet camera might not be covered by insurance.

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by shawndoggy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:31 pm

great pics keepcalm!

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by aristotelian » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:40 pm

We did a white water rafting trip in Costa Rica where one of the tour guides used a DSLR to take pictures. I'm not sure what kind of set up he used, but it must have been waterproof because his buddy capsized his kayak. I remember it being something like this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... ries.html/

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Watty
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Watty » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:05 pm

Keepcalm wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:42 pm
Handheld..next time might try a monopod. Any feedback on a monopod and its usefulness vs handheld would be great! It has 3 stages of IS and its going to be a learning curve in itself using this lens.
They may be most useful for something like shooting a sports event where you will be standing in one place for two hours and your arms would get tired if you tried holding the camera up all the time.

Try using them different ways. Often people will have them vertical and balance their camera on top of the pole. An alternative is to have the monopod stick out at an angle in front of you so that in effect the monopod and your two legs become a tripod.

Also play with your ISO to figure out how high you can go with that lens and still have it be acceptable to you. It is not 2005 with a 5 MP camera where noise is a constant problem. Newer cameras are a lot better with controlling noise so you might find that something like a 1600 ISO might still be ok when you look at the end results. People often zoom way in and see a hint of noise and think that it is a problem when it really isn't when you look at a final print of the image. When looking at the final print also consider the appropriate viewing distance, few people will put their face six inches from a print to examine it.

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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am

Watty wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:05 pm
Keepcalm wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:42 pm
Handheld..next time might try a monopod. Any feedback on a monopod and its usefulness vs handheld would be great! It has 3 stages of IS and its going to be a learning curve in itself using this lens.
They may be most useful for something like shooting a sports event where you will be standing in one place for two hours and your arms would get tired if you tried holding the camera up all the time.

Try using them different ways. Often people will have them vertical and balance their camera on top of the pole. An alternative is to have the monopod stick out at an angle in front of you so that in effect the monopod and your two legs become a tripod.

Also play with your ISO to figure out how high you can go with that lens and still have it be acceptable to you. It is not 2005 with a 5 MP camera where noise is a constant problem. Newer cameras are a lot better with controlling noise so you might find that something like a 1600 ISO might still be ok when you look at the end results. People often zoom way in and see a hint of noise and think that it is a problem when it really isn't when you look at a final print of the image. When looking at the final print also consider the appropriate viewing distance, few people will put their face six inches from a print to examine it.
I like the advice to understand ISO limitations. But 1600 is maybe very conservative for Keepcalm's full frame camera. My bridge camera with a 1" sensor can go to 1600 (unless I wanted to display truly large). My APS-C Nikon d7500 can probably go to 6400 before I get too sad. Also, you if are raising ISO to get a faster shutter speed in "ok" light, versus raising ISO because it is getting really dark, the noise tends to be reasonably controlled (this was something I didn't realize until fairly recently, though perhaps I was the last one to know). As a result, I've learned that it can be smart to bump ISO to 400 and such, even if the light is decent, to keep that shutter speed high and get better sharpness.

I shoot in RAW and post-process, I don't know the best noise reduction settings to use on Canons if Keepcalm is shooting jpegs and not post-processing (though I imagine it does a pretty good job by default).

I need to practice with a monopod, though my gear is relatively light.

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Keepcalm
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Keepcalm » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:04 am

TN_Boy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am
Watty wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:05 pm
Keepcalm wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:42 pm
Handheld..next time might try a monopod. Any feedback on a monopod and its usefulness vs handheld would be great! It has 3 stages of IS and its going to be a learning curve in itself using this lens.
They may be most useful for something like shooting a sports event where you will be standing in one place for two hours and your arms would get tired if you tried holding the camera up all the time.

Try using them different ways. Often people will have them vertical and balance their camera on top of the pole. An alternative is to have the monopod stick out at an angle in front of you so that in effect the monopod and your two legs become a tripod.

Also play with your ISO to figure out how high you can go with that lens and still have it be acceptable to you. It is not 2005 with a 5 MP camera where noise is a constant problem. Newer cameras are a lot better with controlling noise so you might find that something like a 1600 ISO might still be ok when you look at the end results. People often zoom way in and see a hint of noise and think that it is a problem when it really isn't when you look at a final print of the image. When looking at the final print also consider the appropriate viewing distance, few people will put their face six inches from a print to examine it.
I like the advice to understand ISO limitations. But 1600 is maybe very conservative for Keepcalm's full frame camera. My bridge camera with a 1" sensor can go to 1600 (unless I wanted to display truly large). My APS-C Nikon d7500 can probably go to 6400 before I get too sad. Also, you if are raising ISO to get a faster shutter speed in "ok" light, versus raising ISO because it is getting really dark, the noise tends to be reasonably controlled (this was something I didn't realize until fairly recently, though perhaps I was the last one to know). As a result, I've learned that it can be smart to bump ISO to 400 and such, even if the light is decent, to keep that shutter speed high and get better sharpness.

I shoot in RAW and post-process, I don't know the best noise reduction settings to use on Canons if Keepcalm is shooting jpegs and not post-processing (though I imagine it does a pretty good job by default).

I need to practice with a monopod, though my gear is relatively light.
I post process in Lightroom.

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Watty
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by Watty » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am

TN_Boy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am
I like the advice to understand ISO limitations. But 1600 is maybe very conservative for Keepcalm's full frame camera. My bridge camera with a 1" sensor can go to 1600 (unless I wanted to display truly large). My APS-C Nikon d7500 can probably go to 6400 before I get too sad.
I agree. It is much less expensive than the OP's camera but I just got a new crop sensor camera(Cannon 77d) so I am still getting a handle on just how high I can go. I used to use ISO 100 as my default setting but now I may use 400 or even 800 since there is so little noise at that level.

It is hard to quantify but in addition to there being little noise they have also done something that seems to also make the noise there is less objectionable. It seems to just add a little texture now and does not seem as noticeable as in older cameras. I have seen several other comments where people mentioned this so I don't think it is just me.

I will have to play with it some more and do some tests where I take the same image at different ISOs and then try to evaluate the some prints without knowing which print is which ISO.

TN_Boy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:55 am

Watty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am
TN_Boy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am
I like the advice to understand ISO limitations. But 1600 is maybe very conservative for Keepcalm's full frame camera. My bridge camera with a 1" sensor can go to 1600 (unless I wanted to display truly large). My APS-C Nikon d7500 can probably go to 6400 before I get too sad.
I agree. It is much less expensive than the OP's camera but I just got a new crop sensor camera(Cannon 77d) so I am still getting a handle on just how high I can go. I used to use ISO 100 as my default setting but now I may use 400 or even 800 since there is so little noise at that level.

It is hard to quantify but in addition to there being little noise they have also done something that seems to also make the noise there is less objectionable. It seems to just add a little texture now and does not seem as noticeable as in older cameras. I have seen several other comments where people mentioned this so I don't think it is just me.

I will have to play with it some more and do some tests where I take the same image at different ISOs and then try to evaluate the some prints without knowing which print is which ISO.
One thing that helped my photography a year or two ago was the realization that I *didn't* have to shoot at really low ISOs to get excellent pictures. I used to kinda obsess over that -- I mean, I was only shooting with a bridge camera! I don't think I'm only person to make this mistake though.

But I read a few blog posts/tips, and started getting freer with the ISO setting. For outdoor shots when things were moving, this made a difference; also just bumping ISO to get a faster shutter speed for sharpness when handheld at times. I like imaging resources "print quality" evaluations of cameras for shots at different ISOs -- I think they give me a decent idea of what the camera can do at higher ISOs. Anyway, I go to ISO 400 and 800 a lot quicker than I used to; there is noise, but modest, and it can be somewhat controlled.

Reviews of the nikon d7500/d5000 (same sensor) I have also have stated that the noise seems to be .. "better" in some ways, than in older cameras.

bhsince87
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by bhsince87 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:59 pm

TN_Boy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:55 am
Watty wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:38 am
TN_Boy wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:51 am
I like the advice to understand ISO limitations. But 1600 is maybe very conservative for Keepcalm's full frame camera. My bridge camera with a 1" sensor can go to 1600 (unless I wanted to display truly large). My APS-C Nikon d7500 can probably go to 6400 before I get too sad.
I agree. It is much less expensive than the OP's camera but I just got a new crop sensor camera(Cannon 77d) so I am still getting a handle on just how high I can go. I used to use ISO 100 as my default setting but now I may use 400 or even 800 since there is so little noise at that level.

It is hard to quantify but in addition to there being little noise they have also done something that seems to also make the noise there is less objectionable. It seems to just add a little texture now and does not seem as noticeable as in older cameras. I have seen several other comments where people mentioned this so I don't think it is just me.

I will have to play with it some more and do some tests where I take the same image at different ISOs and then try to evaluate the some prints without knowing which print is which ISO.
One thing that helped my photography a year or two ago was the realization that I *didn't* have to shoot at really low ISOs to get excellent pictures. I used to kinda obsess over that -- I mean, I was only shooting with a bridge camera! I don't think I'm only person to make this mistake though.

But I read a few blog posts/tips, and started getting freer with the ISO setting. For outdoor shots when things were moving, this made a difference; also just bumping ISO to get a faster shutter speed for sharpness when handheld at times. I like imaging resources "print quality" evaluations of cameras for shots at different ISOs -- I think they give me a decent idea of what the camera can do at higher ISOs. Anyway, I go to ISO 400 and 800 a lot quicker than I used to; there is noise, but modest, and it can be somewhat controlled.

Reviews of the nikon d7500/d5000 (same sensor) I have also have stated that the noise seems to be .. "better" in some ways, than in older cameras.

I've got a 5D4, and I shoot comfortably at up to 8,000-12,000 ISO. That's for web viewing, with a bit of cropping. WOuld probably look fine on an 8X10 print.

I post process RAW's in Lightroom.

Heavy cropping really brings out the noise though.

For wildlife, I usually shoot in manual mode, with auto-ISO. That is, I set the aperture and shutter for appropriate depth of field and motion freeze, and then let the camera adjust the ISO automatically.
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TN_Boy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:11 am

Duplicate post removed ...
Last edited by TN_Boy on Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

TN_Boy
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Re: Taking expensive DSLR on kayak?

Post by TN_Boy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:13 am

bhsince87 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:59 pm

stuff snipped

For wildlife, I usually shoot in manual mode, with auto-ISO. That is, I set the aperture and shutter for appropriate depth of field and motion freeze, and then let the camera adjust the ISO automatically.
Yes, I've also seen that referred to as "iso-priority" mode. I really like it for some situations (for my nikon I set max iso to 6400, for my FZ1000 1600 is as high as I like go).

Though I tend to drop back to aperture priority with manual adjustments for iso sometime - in practice, if I'm shooting critters, I usually have the aperture pretty open, and I'm basically using the iso adjustment to get a min shutter speed I want. I mean, I have to pay attention to either the ISO the camera is selecting (in "iso-priority" mode) or the shutter speed (in aperture priority). I'm still more used to aperture priority I think. But the "iso-priority" is a little more foolproof since you will get some picture with shutter and aperture you asked for.

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