Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

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pochax
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by pochax »

michaeljc70 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:50 am The 2019 CX-5s are very new, so it will take some time to shake out which trims are most in demand and which will get discounted. I am not sure how the $52k XC60 compares feature wise with the Signature. I remember seeing a XC60 with the sticker over $60k (not counting the hybrid).
there is a nice video comparison of the new CX-5 (turbo) vs. XC40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4KKgTRJWvo

TL;DR: Volvo is a bit more premium in terms of interior/refinement, but CX5 is better in terms of drivability/handling. i agree XC60 is even better than XC40 but the cost difference will be even greater as well.
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

pochax wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:52 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:50 am The 2019 CX-5s are very new, so it will take some time to shake out which trims are most in demand and which will get discounted. I am not sure how the $52k XC60 compares feature wise with the Signature. I remember seeing a XC60 with the sticker over $60k (not counting the hybrid).
there is a nice video comparison of the new CX-5 (turbo) vs. XC40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4KKgTRJWvo

TL;DR: Volvo is a bit more premium in terms of interior/refinement, but CX5 is better in terms of drivability/handling. i agree XC60 is even better than XC40 but the cost difference will be even greater as well.
Interesting comparison. They focused on sticker price (for practical reasons I'm sure) and discounting can change the price difference dynamics a lot. Frankly, the XC60 isn't a compact SUV which is what the thread is about.
randomguy
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by randomguy »

michaeljc70 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:50 am

The 2019 CX-5s are very new, so it will take some time to shake out which trims are most in demand and which will get discounted. I am not sure how the $52k XC60 compares feature wise with the Signature. I remember seeing a XC60 with the sticker over $60k (not counting the hybrid).
The volvo doesn't have ventilated seats but otherwise a pretty good match up. I am sure there are some minor to me features that differ. The tough part is nonbinary features Volvos adaptive cruise control gets much better reviews than mazdas. I would rather someone hit me in a Volvo than a mazda.:) How you value stuff like that is pretty personal. You can definitely get more much expensive XC60s with things like the bigger engine, 20 or 22" wheels, air suspension, premium sound, massage seats and who knows what else. I am always amazed that dealers seem to stock more cars with say 20" wheels that cost 2k than ones with a 2k safety package.

I have never seen Mazda CX5s with big discounts (more than about ~10%). Volvos and BMWs hitting 20% is pretty common towards the end of the model year. Obviously that is just a general trend and tells you nothing about your specific car. Volvo also has a nice CPO program where you get get up to 8 years. Buy at 3, drive for 5, rinse and repeat isn't going to be the cheapest way to drive but it might be a relatively affordable way to drive a luxury car without worrying about repairs or getting way out of date.
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msi
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by msi »

randomguy wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:50 am

The 2019 CX-5s are very new, so it will take some time to shake out which trims are most in demand and which will get discounted. I am not sure how the $52k XC60 compares feature wise with the Signature. I remember seeing a XC60 with the sticker over $60k (not counting the hybrid).
The volvo doesn't have ventilated seats but otherwise a pretty good match up. I am sure there are some minor to me features that differ. The tough part is nonbinary features Volvos adaptive cruise control gets much better reviews than mazdas. I would rather someone hit me in a Volvo than a mazda.:) How you value stuff like that is pretty personal. You can definitely get more much expensive XC60s with things like the bigger engine, 20 or 22" wheels, air suspension, premium sound, massage seats and who knows what else. I am always amazed that dealers seem to stock more cars with say 20" wheels that cost 2k than ones with a 2k safety package.

I have never seen Mazda CX5s with big discounts (more than about ~10%). Volvos and BMWs hitting 20% is pretty common towards the end of the model year. Obviously that is just a general trend and tells you nothing about your specific car. Volvo also has a nice CPO program where you get get up to 8 years. Buy at 3, drive for 5, rinse and repeat isn't going to be the cheapest way to drive but it might be a relatively affordable way to drive a luxury car without worrying about repairs or getting way out of date.
Unfortunately, Volvo changed their CPO program late last year, and now it's only 5 years from the original in-service date https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -CPO-terms!

The 2018+ XC60 is attractive, but it only has a 2/5 in reliability from Consumer Reports.
yosh99
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by yosh99 »

AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:45 pm Mid-market: RAV4, CR-V.
Higher end: BMW X1, Volvo XC40.
I love my XC40. Surprisingly, its cost is substantially below the X1 and comparable to a fully equipped RAV4.
randomguy
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by randomguy »

msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Unfortunately, Volvo changed their CPO program late last year, and now it's only 5 years from the original in-service date https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -CPO-terms!

The 2018+ XC60 is attractive, but it only has a 2/5 in reliability from Consumer Reports.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-t ... -pre-owned . The default is 5 years but you can upgrade it to 8. And yes nobody thinks volvo is a reliable brand. Hence paying for the warranty:)
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msi
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by msi »

randomguy wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:09 pm
msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Unfortunately, Volvo changed their CPO program late last year, and now it's only 5 years from the original in-service date https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -CPO-terms!

The 2018+ XC60 is attractive, but it only has a 2/5 in reliability from Consumer Reports.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-t ... -pre-owned . The default is 5 years but you can upgrade it to 8. And yes nobody thinks volvo is a reliable brand. Hence paying for the warranty:)
I thought you were referring to the CPO warranty, which used to be 7 years and was downgraded to 5. That change really annoyed a lot of people whose strategy was to buy a heavily depreciated low mileage CPO Volvo but still enjoy a decent warranty. It's always been possible to pay extra for an extended warranty from Volvo beyond that, and given the new policy, I agree it's very much worth it.
smitcat
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by smitcat »

randomguy
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by randomguy »

msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:27 pm
randomguy wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:09 pm
msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Unfortunately, Volvo changed their CPO program late last year, and now it's only 5 years from the original in-service date https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -CPO-terms!

The 2018+ XC60 is attractive, but it only has a 2/5 in reliability from Consumer Reports.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-t ... -pre-owned . The default is 5 years but you can upgrade it to 8. And yes nobody thinks volvo is a reliable brand. Hence paying for the warranty:)
I thought you were referring to the CPO warranty, which used to be 7 years and was downgraded to 5. That change really annoyed a lot of people whose strategy was to buy a heavily depreciated low mileage CPO Volvo but still enjoy a decent warranty. It's always been possible to pay extra for an extended warranty from Volvo beyond that, and given the new policy, I agree it's very much worth it.
AFAIK it is the cpo warranty and not an extended warranty. In the past Volvo made you pay for a 7 year cpo warranty. Now you can choose to pay for a 5-8. But we are basically splitting hairs where normally a cpo is done by the manufactor and extended warrantirs are cobranded with some 3rd party.

. Several other companies have messed around with their CPO program. I think they realize a lot of buyers like CPO cars but dont want to pay the premium. cutting the years to 5 instead of 6/7 gives a lower cost product.
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msi
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by msi »

randomguy wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:28 pm
msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:27 pm
randomguy wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:09 pm
msi wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Unfortunately, Volvo changed their CPO program late last year, and now it's only 5 years from the original in-service date https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthrea ... -CPO-terms!

The 2018+ XC60 is attractive, but it only has a 2/5 in reliability from Consumer Reports.
https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-t ... -pre-owned . The default is 5 years but you can upgrade it to 8. And yes nobody thinks volvo is a reliable brand. Hence paying for the warranty:)
I thought you were referring to the CPO warranty, which used to be 7 years and was downgraded to 5. That change really annoyed a lot of people whose strategy was to buy a heavily depreciated low mileage CPO Volvo but still enjoy a decent warranty. It's always been possible to pay extra for an extended warranty from Volvo beyond that, and given the new policy, I agree it's very much worth it.
AFAIK it is the cpo warranty and not an extended warranty. In the past Volvo made you pay for a 7 year cpo warranty. Now you can choose to pay for a 5-8. But we are basically splitting hairs where normally a cpo is done by the manufactor and extended warrantirs are cobranded with some 3rd party.

. Several other companies have messed around with their CPO program. I think they realize a lot of buyers like CPO cars but dont want to pay the premium. cutting the years to 5 instead of 6/7 gives a lower cost product.
Nah, 100% positive it was a 7 year warranty with a CPO Volvo. They downgraded it to 5 late last year. See the linked Swedespeed thread and the many others like it on their forum complaining about this.

The extended warranty you're talking about is sold by Volvo dealers and called Volvo Increased Protection. You choose the level of coverage, mileage, and term you want http://volvo.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9788
AlphaLess
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by AlphaLess »

yosh99 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:01 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:45 pm Mid-market: RAV4, CR-V.
Higher end: BMW X1, Volvo XC40.
I love my XC40. Surprisingly, its cost is substantially below the X1 and comparable to a fully equipped RAV4.
Do you mind sharing the specs, and acquisition cost details, as well as time?
"A Republic, if you can keep it". Benjamin Franklin. 1787. | Party affiliation: Vanguard. Religion: low-cost investing.
yosh99
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by yosh99 »

AlphaLess wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:28 pm
yosh99 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:01 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:45 pm Mid-market: RAV4, CR-V.
Higher end: BMW X1, Volvo XC40.
I love my XC40. Surprisingly, its cost is substantially below the X1 and comparable to a fully equipped RAV4.
Do you mind sharing the specs, and acquisition cost details, as well as time?
XC40's are in short supply from what I understand. I pre-ordered mine, sight unseen, very early in October 2017 and was one of the first in my area to receive one in April 2018. I don't have any of the details with me at the moment, but it's a T5 R-Design with all the options (advanced package, vision package, trailer hitch, etc), except sun roof. I paid $44,000 for it. The BMW X3 and Audi X3 were were were both around $55,000 with similar options, and neither one could match the XC40's design and technology. A fully optioned RAV4 was about $40,000.

This is the first vehicle I actually enjoy owning and I've had many over the years.
mrsurr
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by mrsurr »

Just going to throw in my $.02 since I went through this exact situation last year.

My final decision: leasing a fully-loaded Jeep Cherokee Limited for $369/month.

I had originally wanted to buy or lease one of the new generation Volvo XC60s or XC40s. After doing a tour of regional dealerships I learned that the XC40s were so popular you could only get one by over-paying, and the XC60s were new enough that dealers were not giving any discounts. I have never been so blown away by a Volvo as that XC60. But I do NOT over pay for things.

I tried out the Asian crossovers too. But something about them just didn’t feel right. They tick all the modern tech boxes. But they were just so unbelievably boring. The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.

And then a buddy told me about the great lease deal he just got on a Jeep Cherokee. It was also refreshed for 2019, updating the ugly headlights, putting in a nice touch screen and infotainment system and a new 2.0 Turbo with 270hp and 295 ftlbs of torque mated to a 9-speed auto (not cvt). It was perfect. Not too cheap, not too expensive, had all the stuff I wanted and none of what I didn’t, American made - a real “third bowl of porridge.” And it is happy both crawling over gravel lots or sprinting down highways.

Every time I switch between our Jeep and our Audi I can’t decide which I like better. (Probably the Audi TBH. But the Jeep is soo much more affordable).

Right now, an increase in tier-two used auto lending is causing a bubble in used car prices (WSJ), which is inflating resale values that underpin leasing calculations.

So at the end of the day I took the most top-spec Cherokee the dealer had on the lot for no money down and $369 a month and it really has not left me wanting.

Try one out.
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm Just going to throw in my $.02 since I went through this exact situation last year.

My final decision: leasing a fully-loaded Jeep Cherokee Limited for $369/month.

I had originally wanted to buy or lease one of the new generation Volvo XC60s or XC40s. After doing a tour of regional dealerships I learned that the XC40s were so popular you could only get one by over-paying, and the XC60s were new enough that dealers were not giving any discounts. I have never been so blown away by a Volvo as that XC60. But I do NOT over pay for things.

I tried out the Asian crossovers too. But something about them just didn’t feel right. They tick all the modern tech boxes. But they were just so unbelievably boring. The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.

And then a buddy told me about the great lease deal he just got on a Jeep Cherokee. It was also refreshed for 2019, updating the ugly headlights, putting in a nice touch screen and infotainment system and a new 2.0 Turbo with 270hp and 295 ftlbs of torque mated to a 9-speed auto (not cvt). It was perfect. Not too cheap, not too expensive, had all the stuff I wanted and none of what I didn’t, American made - a real “third bowl of porridge.” And it is happy both crawling over gravel lots or sprinting down highways.

Every time I switch between our Jeep and our Audi I can’t decide which I like better. (Probably the Audi TBH. But the Jeep is soo much more affordable).

Right now, an increase in tier-two used auto lending is causing a bubble in used car prices (WSJ), which is inflating resale values that underpin leasing calculations.

So at the end of the day I took the most top-spec Cherokee the dealer had on the lot for no money down and $369 a month and it really has not left me wanting.

Try one out.
I'm generally not an advocate of leasing, but that seems very cheap. How long is the lease for? If I'm not mistaken, a fully loaded limited JGC (we were looking at them last year) is approaching $50k sticker.

A JGC is not a compact SUV though. It is bigger than the XC40 and XC60.
mrsurr
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by mrsurr »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 am
I'm generally not an advocate of leasing, but that seems very cheap. How long is the lease for? If I'm not mistaken, a fully loaded limited JGC (we were looking at them last year) is approaching $50k sticker.

A JGC is not a compact SUV though. It is bigger than the XC40 and XC60.

The lease is a 3/12k and it’s the Jeep Cherokee not the JGC. I think it was around $38k sticker but I got it down to around $32k after incentives and affiliate pricing. That’s with the pano sunroof, heated and vented seats, leather, the nice touch screen, the turbo 4, the kick-open auto lift gate. You could spend a little more and get the Overland with the rear differential lock, but I’m more concerned with snow thank off-roading and a standard 4x4 is ideal.

In the end I didn’t want too big an SUV either and the size of this one was just right. The JGC has more features and bigger engines, but most of it is what I would consider excessive for what one of these vehicles reasonably needs to accomplish.

I hear you about not advocating leasing. To do it right you need to understand the economics of it and literally bring a lease calculator to the negotiation, also go on Edmonds and find out the current base money factor. But if you do it right you’re only paying for the depreciation at a very, very low interest rate. You’d pay for that anyway. But now you’re always under warranty. And, as I mentioned, with the bubble in used car pricing, the depreciation figures that inform the lease prices have gone very optimistic. At least they were in August when I got the Jeep.
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

mrsurr wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:50 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 am
I'm generally not an advocate of leasing, but that seems very cheap. How long is the lease for? If I'm not mistaken, a fully loaded limited JGC (we were looking at them last year) is approaching $50k sticker.

A JGC is not a compact SUV though. It is bigger than the XC40 and XC60.

The lease is a 3/12k and it’s the Jeep Cherokee not the JGC. I think it was around $38k sticker but I got it down to around $32k after incentives and affiliate pricing. That’s with the pano sunroof, heated and vented seats, leather, the nice touch screen, the turbo 4, the kick-open auto lift gate. You could spend a little more and get the Overland with the rear differential lock, but I’m more concerned with snow thank off-roading and a standard 4x4 is ideal.

In the end I didn’t want too big an SUV either and the size of this one was just right. The JGC has more features and bigger engines, but most of it is what I would consider excessive for what one of these vehicles reasonably needs to accomplish.

I hear you about not advocating leasing. To do it right you need to understand the economics of it and literally bring a lease calculator to the negotiation, also go on Edmonds and find out the current base money factor. But if you do it right you’re only paying for the depreciation at a very, very low interest rate. You’d pay for that anyway. But now you’re always under warranty. And, as I mentioned, with the bubble in used car pricing, the depreciation figures that inform the lease prices have gone very optimistic. At least they were in August when I got the Jeep.
Okay. Thanks. I misread that on the model.

I had a JGC for 13 years (2001-2014) and it was very reliable but I averaged 12 mpg! I am averaging 23 mpg on my CX-5 with the same type of driving. The JGC got horrible mileage in city driving.
NewbieBogle007
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by NewbieBogle007 »

I've always seen Honda as the "classiest" of the non-luxury brands, and I notice a lot of physicians driving well-equipped ones. I don't think anyone will look down on you for driving a CRV, and they might rather think you're being sensible-- which you are, being a Boglehead.
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ltuxl
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by ltuxl »

My wife and I are looking at compact SUVs for her new car as well. I'd +1 votes for CRV and RAV4.

We are not at the stage of test driving them yet but if my wife dislikes those two cars for any reason (I'm thinking handling, styling, etc.) our runner up is the CX-5. The only reason its not up there with the CRV and RAV4 is due to its lack of historical reliability. That said, they are a blast to drive, look cooler in my opinion, and have similar options.
- Mr. Tux
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wander
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by wander »

Wricha wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:27 am Meg,
I have read a few of your threads/responses and my impression is that your bright, level headed and financial astute. My wife loved her Honda hatchback but they quit making those wagons. She moved up to SUV Mercedes (the little one) really liked sitting higher up. The other day we went car shopping. She would never think of walking into a Porsche dealership (I do often!) but she test drove a Macan and loved it. These cars are nimble, fun to drive and are nicely laid out with all the feature you could want. My point is have fun, buy something that makes you smile if you have to drive everyday. I have driven a Porsche for over 20 years with almost no problems (smile each time) they are well built cars no question about it. You can get 5% off list no problem throw yourself down the steps you can get up to 7%.
How much is a Macan? If I am not mistaken, the Op has budgeted $30k for a car.
researcher
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by researcher »

mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
mrsurr
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by mrsurr »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:05 am
mrsurr wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:50 am
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:38 am
I'm generally not an advocate of leasing, but that seems very cheap. How long is the lease for? If I'm not mistaken, a fully loaded limited JGC (we were looking at them last year) is approaching $50k sticker.

A JGC is not a compact SUV though. It is bigger than the XC40 and XC60.

The lease is a 3/12k and it’s the Jeep Cherokee not the JGC. I think it was around $38k sticker but I got it down to around $32k after incentives and affiliate pricing. That’s with the pano sunroof, heated and vented seats, leather, the nice touch screen, the turbo 4, the kick-open auto lift gate. You could spend a little more and get the Overland with the rear differential lock, but I’m more concerned with snow thank off-roading and a standard 4x4 is ideal.

In the end I didn’t want too big an SUV either and the size of this one was just right. The JGC has more features and bigger engines, but most of it is what I would consider excessive for what one of these vehicles reasonably needs to accomplish.

I hear you about not advocating leasing. To do it right you need to understand the economics of it and literally bring a lease calculator to the negotiation, also go on Edmonds and find out the current base money factor. But if you do it right you’re only paying for the depreciation at a very, very low interest rate. You’d pay for that anyway. But now you’re always under warranty. And, as I mentioned, with the bubble in used car pricing, the depreciation figures that inform the lease prices have gone very optimistic. At least they were in August when I got the Jeep.
Okay. Thanks. I misread that on the model.

I had a JGC for 13 years (2001-2014) and it was very reliable but I averaged 12 mpg! I am averaging 23 mpg on my CX-5 with the same type of driving. The JGC got horrible mileage in city driving.
The new JC I have reads 24.3 avg mpg this week. It’s been as low as mid 22s when driving primarily around town in sport mode.
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munemaker
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by munemaker »

NewbieBogle007 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:10 am I've always seen Honda as the "classiest" of the non-luxury brands, and I notice a lot of physicians driving well-equipped ones. I don't think anyone will look down on you for driving a CRV, and they might rather think you're being sensible-- which you are, being a Boglehead.
The turbo motor in the upscale CR*V has a widely publicized (on the internet) oil dilution problem where gasoline gets into the oil. I would love to buy a new CR*V sometime during the next year, but I am considering the Mazda CX-5 unless I see some convincing evidence that Honda has fixed this problem.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:22 am
NewbieBogle007 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:10 am I've always seen Honda as the "classiest" of the non-luxury brands, and I notice a lot of physicians driving well-equipped ones. I don't think anyone will look down on you for driving a CRV, and they might rather think you're being sensible-- which you are, being a Boglehead.
The turbo motor in the upscale CR*V has a widely publicized (on the internet) oil dilution problem where gasoline gets into the oil. I would love to buy a new CR*V sometime during the next year, but I am considering the Mazda CX-5 unless I see some convincing evidence that Honda has fixed this problem.
Yep. I had initially thought about a CRV, but it's off my list. Now I'm looking at RAV4 and Forester. I'm hoping that the new Forester has a better CVT than 2018 and prior.
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
DonnaB
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by DonnaB »

Sandi_k wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:06 am
DonnaB wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:27 pm I really enjoy my 2015 Lexus NX 300h. It is a hybrid and is very quiet. It's smaller than the 350RX. And you don't see very many around.
Donna, this is the current leader among the cars I'm considering to replace my 2010 RX350 (with 237k miles!)

Is it comfortable on longer trips? Do you have much road noise? Does it rattle much?
Sandi, I do find the car comfortable. It's pretty quiet on the road and I do not have rattles - the car is new to me and only has 25K miles. I have fun with the eco mode and trying to maximize my mileage - usually around 30 mpg.

Donna
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munemaker
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by munemaker »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
For the vast majority of small SUV owners, 0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds would be more than adequate. The exception would be the hot-rod crowd.
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by Meg77 »

fishnskiguy wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:32 pm Meg,

After reading through three pages of postings I'd have to say that the very first reply you got was just about the best.

Car manufacturers do a major model upgrade about every 5-8 years. It just so happens that Volvo did its most recent redesign in 2018, and they absolutely hit the ball out of the park. The XC-60 Inscription has the most beautiful interior of any car this side of a Rolls Royce. I would caution you to not go the dealer and look at one as you might be tempted to buy new.

A 2018 XC-60 base engine (called T-5) in Inscription trim with a few options will sell new for around $50,000. The base engine is a very nice 2.0 liter turbo with plenty of power. Two years from now, three year lease returns should start coming to market at around $35,000 which is right on your budget.

By the way, I commend you for having the courage to say, " but I don't pretend to be immune from status concerns and I do pay up other designer luxury consumer goods I care about." It takes guts to admit that. You should ignore the few snarky posts that took you to task for saying that.

I happen to be very much a "car guy" but don't place any value on status. I will be replacing my 2007 Subaru Outback next fall. The two cars on the top of my list were the Volvo XC-60 T-5 Inscription and the BMW X-3. However that all changed when Mazda announced recently that the CX-5 in Signature trim now has the 2.5 liter turbo. That's a total game changer for me as I do a lot of high altitude mountain driving and need decent power. The 2019 CX-5 Signature checks all the luxury boxes for about $15,000 less than a comparable XC-60 or X-3 but without the status.

And by the way again, when I drive up to my favorite Montana fly fishing lodge and break out one or two of my five $2,000 split bamboo fly rods, I do get a special feeling from the oohs and aahs I often get from other guests. :D

Chris
Thanks for this - and I agree both with your top two choices as well as the possibility of Mazda (but not a Ford or Subaru for me) throwing the BMW or Volvo off the list. I honestly don't need the power but do value the luxury interior feel and soft/quiet ride. I've never ridden in a Mazda SUV though so can't compare yet.

And I have no qualms admitting that brands/marketing/status/prestige or whatever you want to call it has an impact for me. If it didn't I could retire in fairly short order, especially if we downsized our house. But I like my job and lifestyle so am accepting/embracing a certain degree of lifestyle inflation along with that. No point dying with millions. A certain amount of that increased spending is for better comfort and quality, but usually the upgrades (cars, clothes, flights) aren't "worth" the added cost in pure dollar terms. I'm still feeling out just how much I'm comfortable splurging for marginally better material items and experiences.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by Meg77 »

randomguy wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:08 pm
fishnskiguy wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:32 pm
I happen to be very much a "car guy" but don't place any value on status. I will be replacing my 2007 Subaru Outback next fall. The two cars on the top of my list were the Volvo XC-60 T-5 Inscription and the BMW X-3. However that all changed when Mazda announced recently that the CX-5 in Signature trim now has the 2.5 liter turbo. That's a total game changer for me as I do a lot of high altitude mountain driving and need decent power. The 2019 CX-5 Signature checks all the luxury boxes for about $15,000 less than a comparable XC-60 or X-3 but without the status.

That was my plan. The problem is that right now the signature is at 38k with almost zero discount. I can get that 52k XC60 for ~45k new, ~40k-42k for a 1 year old model (mainly loaners. And yeah I have mixed feelings on that:)). Haven't driven the signature yet but I like the overall interior and ride of XC60 more than the CX-5. Maybe not 12-14k more but say 5-7k? That is pretty close and I bet if I could do a 2 hour test drive in both I would be willing to spring for the volvo:) If procrastinate another 12 months it will be between a 35k XC60 and a 35k mazda which gives you the classic debate about how much maintenance will cost you versus depreciation.:)

Most car buying threads really need like pieces of info:

a) How big do you need to be? Seating room, cargo room, and so on. Do you want to be as big or as small as possible. This really narrows the category down. I honestly can't recall anyone ever riding in my back seat except for one road trip 3 years ago; seating room matters nil and cargo room only matters a few times a year. The XC60 has offered plenty, so I don't need to go bigger. Could probably do smaller but prefer to stick with SUV style where the back seats lay flat for occasional road trips and hauling larger items.

b) How much performance/sportiness do you want. Some of that is a need (i.e. 150hp car going up a mountain with 1200 lbs of people and gear can struggle. 250 hp? Probably not) and some is want (i.e. you enjoy quick acceleration). At the want end, seconds start getting real expensive when you are talking sub 6,5 and 4s cars:) Very little need for this, and also very little want.

c) Do you care about driving dynamics and NVH (noise vibration and harshness). The less you care, the less purpose there is in most luxury cars since luxury these days is pretty much about adding sportiness and reducing noise.Yes. I rode in my brother in law's Nissan SUV over Christmas and was stunned at the road noise. I'm very sensitive to that and will pay more to avoid it.

d) how much you care about reliability? If it is your number 1 goal, you are buying lexus/toyota and maybe some of the hondas with known parts. Relax your reliability a bit and there are tons of other decent cars. And if you will buy anything their is FIAT and Land Rover:) I care about as much as anybody I suppose - I mean who doesn't want reliability? But TBH given my driving patterns it matters less to me than for most. As you can see, I'll tire of a car and want a change well before approaching 100k miles.

e) How much does money (both purchase and running) matter to you Not as much as it should. :happy With a savings rate approaching 50% of gross and low 6 figures of excess cash flow going to taxable each year, I'm much less budget-conscious these days. I threw out $35k as a target, but if $45k gets me a much better car I'll enjoy a lot more then that's fine.

Figure out where you are on the continuum for these type of things you can narrow down your models a lot. Without it you get the list of every car remotely close from say a Rav4 to an Alfa romeo stelvio quadrifoglio and everything in between. Ha, yes I noticed. Problem is that's kind of what I wanted too! Really appreciate all the info on models across the board.

The other big thing is that peoples standards are different. I went from a ~11 0-60 car to a 6.5s 0-60 car and thought it was overpowered. The friend 400hp 360 Modena thought it was still way underpowered:) Same thing happens with noise and material quality. Sit in a CX5 after being in the old Rav4 or CRV and it feels really nice. Sit in it after being in a Q5 and it feels just ok. And of course your personal perferences might not match mine (how do you feel about tacked on screens versus integrated ones:)).
I'm with you on the comparison - and I think I have narrowed it down to a 2018 or newer Volvo or a Mazda SUV (DH says the 5 is too small for me and suggests the 9 but I'd have to check them out in person). I'll test the BMW and Mercedes too just for grins. However I'm also going to detail my current ride and probably wait till spring at least and reevaluate.

Answered your questions above - thanks for helping me narrow the important points!
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by munemaker »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
I was just looking through the January 2019 issue of Motor Trend magazine and thought back to your post. They compare all the new model SUVs for their SUV of the Year award. So here are the 0-60 times. I think you will have to agree the Mazda CS-5's 0-60 time is superior to anything in its class. Anything faster is going to cost you a lot more (except possibly the Ford Edge ST). It is only 0.3 second behind the Ford Edge ST, and if you are not aware, ST designates Ford's high performance line for enthusiasts. Your claim that the CX-5 turbo is under powered is not factual.

Acura RDX - 7.1 secs.
BMW X2 - 6.8 secs.
BMW X3 - 6.7 secs.
BMW X4 - 4.8 secs. ($61,445+)
Cadillac XT4 - 7.5 secs.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 11.2 secs
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 9.9 secs.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 7.6 secs.
Ford Edge ST awd - 6.1 secs. ($43,350+) (
Ford Expedition - 6.9 secs.
Hyundai Kona - 8.3 secs.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 7.5 secs.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 6.6 secs. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 16.7 secs.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 9.6 secs.
Infiniti QX50 - 6.7 secs.
Jaguar E-Pace - 7.8 secs.
Jaguar I-Pace - 4.0 secs. ($81,495+)(All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 7.5 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 10.6 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 5.8 secs. ($65,195+)
Lexus RX 350 L - 7.6 secs.
Lincoln Navigator - 6.8 secs.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 5.4 secs. ($125,495+)
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 4.3 secs. ($144,695+)

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 9.6 secs.
Nissan Kicks - 9.9 secs.
Subaru Ascent - 7.5 secs.
Subaru Forester - 9.6 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 8.8 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 8.2 secs.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 7.5 secs.
Volvo XC40 - 8.2 secs
Last edited by munemaker on Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
I was just looking through the January 2019 issue of Motor Trend magazine and thought back to your post. They compare all the new model SUVs for their SUV of the Year award. So here are the 0-60 times. I think you will have to agree the Mazda CS-5's 0-60 time is superior to anything in its class. Anything faster is going to cost you a lot more. It is only 0.3 second behind the Ford Edge ST, and if you are not aware, ST designates Ford's high performance line for enthusiasts. Your claim that the CX-5 turbo is under powered is not factural.

Acura RDX - 7.1 secs.
BMW X2 - 6.8 secs.
BMW X3 - 6.7 secs.
BMW X4 - 4.8 secs.
Cadillac XT4 - 7.5 secs.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 11.2 secs
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 9.9 secs.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 7.6 secs.
Ford Edge ST awd - 6.1 secs.
Ford Expedition - 6.9 secs.
Hyundai Kona - 8.3 secs.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 7.5 secs.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 6.6 secs. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 16.7 secs.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 9.6 secs.
Infiniti QX50 - 6.7 secs.
Jaguar E-Pace - 7.8 secs.
Jaguar I-Pace - 4.0 secs. (All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 7.5 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 10.6 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 5.8 secs.
Lexus RX 350 L - 7.6 secs.
Lincoln Navigator - 6.8 secs.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 5.4 secs. ($125,495+)
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 4.3 secs. ($144,695+)

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 9.6 secs.
Nissan Kicks - 9.9 secs.
Subaru Ascent - 7.5 secs.
Subaru Forester - 9.6 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 8.8 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 8.2 secs.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 7.5 secs.
Volvo XC40 - 8.2 secs
I didn't claim that at all. I claimed my non-turbo CX-5 was fine ("I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power). I stated that REVIEWS claimed that.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by munemaker »

michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:45 pm
munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
I was just looking through the January 2019 issue of Motor Trend magazine and thought back to your post. They compare all the new model SUVs for their SUV of the Year award. So here are the 0-60 times. I think you will have to agree the Mazda CS-5's 0-60 time is superior to anything in its class. Anything faster is going to cost you a lot more. It is only 0.3 second behind the Ford Edge ST, and if you are not aware, ST designates Ford's high performance line for enthusiasts. Your claim that the CX-5 turbo is under powered is not factural.

Acura RDX - 7.1 secs.
BMW X2 - 6.8 secs.
BMW X3 - 6.7 secs.
BMW X4 - 4.8 secs.
Cadillac XT4 - 7.5 secs.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 11.2 secs
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 9.9 secs.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 7.6 secs.
Ford Edge ST awd - 6.1 secs.
Ford Expedition - 6.9 secs.
Hyundai Kona - 8.3 secs.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 7.5 secs.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 6.6 secs. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 16.7 secs.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 9.6 secs.
Infiniti QX50 - 6.7 secs.
Jaguar E-Pace - 7.8 secs.
Jaguar I-Pace - 4.0 secs. (All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 7.5 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 10.6 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 5.8 secs.
Lexus RX 350 L - 7.6 secs.
Lincoln Navigator - 6.8 secs.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 5.4 secs. ($125,495+)
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 4.3 secs. ($144,695+)

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 9.6 secs.
Nissan Kicks - 9.9 secs.
Subaru Ascent - 7.5 secs.
Subaru Forester - 9.6 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 8.8 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 8.2 secs.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 7.5 secs.
Volvo XC40 - 8.2 secs
I didn't claim that at all. I claimed my non-turbo CX-5 was fine ("I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power). I stated that REVIEWS claimed that.

That list seems to be missing a lot of SUVs also.
As I said, these are all the newly designed models, which are pretty representative. After reviewing the list, do you still think a 0-60 time of 6.4 seconds is under powered for a SUV?
michaeljc70
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by michaeljc70 »

munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:47 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:45 pm
munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am

This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
I was just looking through the January 2019 issue of Motor Trend magazine and thought back to your post. They compare all the new model SUVs for their SUV of the Year award. So here are the 0-60 times. I think you will have to agree the Mazda CS-5's 0-60 time is superior to anything in its class. Anything faster is going to cost you a lot more. It is only 0.3 second behind the Ford Edge ST, and if you are not aware, ST designates Ford's high performance line for enthusiasts. Your claim that the CX-5 turbo is under powered is not factural.

Acura RDX - 7.1 secs.
BMW X2 - 6.8 secs.
BMW X3 - 6.7 secs.
BMW X4 - 4.8 secs.
Cadillac XT4 - 7.5 secs.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 11.2 secs
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 9.9 secs.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 7.6 secs.
Ford Edge ST awd - 6.1 secs.
Ford Expedition - 6.9 secs.
Hyundai Kona - 8.3 secs.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 7.5 secs.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 6.6 secs. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 16.7 secs.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 9.6 secs.
Infiniti QX50 - 6.7 secs.
Jaguar E-Pace - 7.8 secs.
Jaguar I-Pace - 4.0 secs. (All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 7.5 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 10.6 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 5.8 secs.
Lexus RX 350 L - 7.6 secs.
Lincoln Navigator - 6.8 secs.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 5.4 secs. ($125,495+)
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 4.3 secs. ($144,695+)

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 9.6 secs.
Nissan Kicks - 9.9 secs.
Subaru Ascent - 7.5 secs.
Subaru Forester - 9.6 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 8.8 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 8.2 secs.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 7.5 secs.
Volvo XC40 - 8.2 secs
I didn't claim that at all. I claimed my non-turbo CX-5 was fine ("I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power). I stated that REVIEWS claimed that.

That list seems to be missing a lot of SUVs also.
As I said, these are all the newly designed models, which are pretty representative. After reviewing the list, do you still think a 0-60 time of 6.4 seconds is under powered for a SUV?
You must not have read either of my posts you quoted.
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by EZ James »

I got a 2017 RAV4 Platinum new in Oct just before the 2018 models shipped.

My criteria was:

1. Maximum driver assist and safety technology
2. No turbo
3. 2WD
4. Able to handle thin 8 ft cargo (fish rods, 2x4s) plus big boxes with rear seats folded down
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
6. A decent price (around 21% discount from MSRP)

During the second month of ownership the enhanced braking system saved me from a wreck.
I am deleriously happy with the car but only use if for short trips. I am elderly and hate traveling.
Marylander1
Posts: 282
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Location: Baltimore & DC

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by Marylander1 »

EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by BoglePaul »

munemaker wrote: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:39 pm
michaeljc70 wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:08 am
researcher wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am
mrsurr wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 pm The Mazda was sleek and attractive the way a young professional looks in his first tailored suit: lots of promise, but no real power.
This is no longer the case for the Mazda CX-5.

It's available with a 2.5L turbo motor producing 250 HP and 310 lb-ft torque at just 2000 RPM.
In the reviews of the turbo, people still complain about the power. It is 0-60 in 6.4 seconds. It is not a sports car. I have no problem with the non-turbo version's power but realize I am driving a mid priced Asian crossover.
I was just looking through the January 2019 issue of Motor Trend magazine and thought back to your post. They compare all the new model SUVs for their SUV of the Year award. So here are the 0-60 times. I think you will have to agree the Mazda CS-5's 0-60 time is superior to anything in its class. Anything faster is going to cost you a lot more (except possibly the Ford Edge ST). It is only 0.3 second behind the Ford Edge ST, and if you are not aware, ST designates Ford's high performance line for enthusiasts. Your claim that the CX-5 turbo is under powered is not factual.

Acura RDX - 7.1 secs.
BMW X2 - 6.8 secs.
BMW X3 - 6.7 secs.
BMW X4 - 4.8 secs. ($61,445+)
Cadillac XT4 - 7.5 secs.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 11.2 secs
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 9.9 secs.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 7.6 secs.
Ford Edge ST awd - 6.1 secs. ($43,350+) (
Ford Expedition - 6.9 secs.
Hyundai Kona - 8.3 secs.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 7.5 secs.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 6.6 secs. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 16.7 secs.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 9.6 secs.
Infiniti QX50 - 6.7 secs.
Jaguar E-Pace - 7.8 secs.
Jaguar I-Pace - 4.0 secs. ($81,495+)(All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 7.5 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 10.6 secs.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 5.8 secs. ($65,195+)
Lexus RX 350 L - 7.6 secs.
Lincoln Navigator - 6.8 secs.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 5.4 secs. ($125,495+)
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 4.3 secs. ($144,695+)

Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 9.6 secs.
Nissan Kicks - 9.9 secs.
Subaru Ascent - 7.5 secs.
Subaru Forester - 9.6 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 8.8 secs.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 8.2 secs.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 7.5 secs.
Volvo XC40 - 8.2 secs
Is there a table of stopping distances? I am more interested in braking performance. For example:
BMW X3 60 to 0 MPH 128 feet Consumer Reports
BMW X3 60 to 0 MPH (Wet) 138 feet Consumer Reports
BMW Q5 60-0 MPH 136 ft
Hyundai Santa Fe 145 ft
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Marylander1 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:56 am
EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
Whoa.... I've spent too many hours sitting in car dealerships over the years while my car is being repaired, so the environment in the waiting area is not unimportant. Gotta have coffee and wifi.
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Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by munemaker »

BoglePaul wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:28 am Is there a table of stopping distances? I am more interested in braking performance.
Here are the 60-0 distances from the same issue of Motor Trend magazine. The BMW X4, Ford Edge ST awd and Jaguar I Pace are the stand outs for good braking. The vast majority are clustered in the 125 to 135 ft. range.

Acura RDX - 133 ft
BMW X2 - 118 ft.
BMW X3 - 127 ft.
BMW X4 - 109 ft.
Cadillac XT4 - 126 ft.
Ford EcoSport SE fwd - 128 ft.
Ford EcoSport SES awd - 132 ft.
Ford Edge Titanium fwd - 128 ft.
Ford Edge ST awd - 108 ft.
Ford Expedition - 130 ft.
Hyundai Kona - 133 ft.
Hyundai Kona 1.6 awd - 132 ft.
Hyundai KonaElectric - 138 ft. (All Electric)
Hyundai Santa Fe - 130 ft.
Hyudai Santa Fe HTRAc 2.0t - 125 ft.
Infiniti QX50 - 126 ft.
Jaguar E-Pace - 134 ft.
Jaguar I-Pace - 112 ft.(All Electric)
Jeep Cherokee Limited 4X4 - 131 ft.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar D180S - 131 ft.
Land Rover Range Rover Velar P380S - 128 ft.
Lexus RX 350 L - 133 ft.
Lincoln Navigator - 132 ft.
Mercedes Benz G550 4Matic - 135 ft.
Mercedes Benz - AMG 63 4Matic - 123 ft.
Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross - 129 ft.
Nissan Kicks - 133 ft.
Subaru Ascent - 125 ft.
Subaru Forester - 129 ft.
Toyota RAV4 Adventure - 131 ft.
Toyota RAV4 Limited - 134 ft.
Toyota RAV4 XSE Hybrid - 143 ft.
Volvo XC40 - 125 ft.
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queso
Posts: 891
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by queso »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:33 am
Marylander1 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:56 am
EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
Whoa.... I've spent too many hours sitting in car dealerships over the years while my car is being repaired, so the environment in the waiting area is not unimportant. Gotta have coffee and wifi.
You must not be buying Hondas, Toyotas or Subarus. Euro car guy? :happy
badger42
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:01 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by badger42 »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:33 am
Marylander1 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:56 am
EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
Whoa.... I've spent too many hours sitting in car dealerships over the years while my car is being repaired, so the environment in the waiting area is not unimportant. Gotta have coffee and wifi.
Why would you sit around? Drop car off, Uber/Lyft somewhere more interesting (anywhere!), and get back the same way when they are done.
dbr
Posts: 33842
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:50 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by dbr »

badger42 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:38 am
Why would you sit around? Drop car off, Uber/Lyft somewhere more interesting (anywhere!), and get back the same way when they are done.
It takes me thirty seconds to drive around the corner to my local independent shop and about three minutes to walk back home. They don't bother with coffee because there is a custom coffee and muffin shop across the street. We usually just bring the car in the night before and pick it up the next day when they call.

I have been to the local dealer for new car service. They have drive in oil change/check that takes about 1/2 hour and they do have good coffee and cookies. The techs actually start such things as air-up tires and a couple of other items right in the drop off line before they drive around to the oil change bay. It works like an assembly line.
UpperNwGuy
Posts: 4097
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

badger42 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:38 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:33 am
Marylander1 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:56 am
EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
Whoa.... I've spent too many hours sitting in car dealerships over the years while my car is being repaired, so the environment in the waiting area is not unimportant. Gotta have coffee and wifi.
Why would you sit around? Drop car off, Uber/Lyft somewhere more interesting (anywhere!), and get back the same way when they are done.
The dealer was not near my home or my office, so it was easier just to wait. I could get a lot of work done on my laptop in the dealer's waiting room. Now that my car is older, I use my local BP station two blocks from home.
HIinvestor
Posts: 1833
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:23 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by HIinvestor »

My nieces love their Nissan Rogues. Another is pleased with her Suburu Forrester. She got the forrester new for about $25k. S bought an Accura suv for about $20k—it’s a year or two old but otherwise in mint condition.
btenny
Posts: 5418
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by btenny »

OK Meg. When are you actually going to go out and test drive some of these choices? I still recommend you go and try out a late model (2015ish) Lincoln MKX. It is a very nice car. I think it meets all your desires in a nice pretty prestigious package. Plus it is AMERICAN made which is a key factor for people who live in Dallas. I bet you could brag about your car brand at every party and say (and tell the truth) that it drives better and is quieter and nicer than a Audi or a BMW or ?? It really is a nice car. And if I read the tables above it stops better and accelerates as well as those more expensive foreign brands. I am pretty sure your parents have already figured this out. Now it is your turn. Here are some nice ones for sale in Dallas.

Good Luck.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... stRecord=0
randomguy
Posts: 9205
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by randomguy »

btenny wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:21 pm OK Meg. When are you actually going to go out and test drive some of these choices? I still recommend you go and try out a late model (2015ish) Lincoln MKX. It is a very nice car. I think it meets all your desires in a nice pretty prestigious package. Plus it is AMERICAN made which is a key factor for people who live in Dallas. I bet you could brag about your car brand at every party and say (and tell the truth) that it drives better and is quieter and nicer than a Audi or a BMW or ?? It really is a nice car. And if I read the tables above it stops better and accelerates as well as those more expensive foreign brands. I am pretty sure your parents have already figured this out. Now it is your turn. Here are some nice ones for sale in Dallas.

Good Luck.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sal ... stRecord=0
Except of course the Lincoln MKX isn't an american made car. It is made in Canada. Well unless they just closed that plant:). BMWs though are made in the US down in South Carolina. The Mercedes GLE (not sure of the other models) is another southern car from Alabama. I am sure most people in Dallas are pretty sophisticated and pay attention to the news where this has been talked about constantly due to the auto tariffs over the past year. They would applaud your buying a nice southern made car instead of one made by foreigners:) And the you are not reading the tables above correctly. They don't have the MKX listed at all unless find is failing me:) And most of those cars have multiple engines so you need to make sure you aren't comparing some 42k base model with the 70k supercharged turbo model.

At certain point threads like this are great for getting a list of 3-5 cars that meet your needs and that you like. After that you have to go to the dealer, sit in them, load them up to see how you lugage fits, and drive them around (I recommend short drives at night in addition to the daylight ones. Some car headlights are really bad. See IIHS.org to see how some cars are putting out light almost 2x as far as the bad models).
btenny
Posts: 5418
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by btenny »

Random. We could argue this for days. We just see things differently. Do you really believe a BMW or MB is more of a American car than a Lincoln? Really? Try convincing a Texan from Dallas who drives a F150 of that view. Really try to convince yourself of that view. Yes some BMW and MB are assembled in the US but the engines and transmissions and many parts are German. The design is German. The style is German. Then tell me where BMW or MB company stock is listed? Those answers are in Germany.

Go to Detroit and you will see a big building that says Ford. It is where US auto engineers work and design cars and get paid. It is where Lincolns are designed and have been for a hundred years. It is where Ford has been since 1903. The Lincoln is a US car and US brand designed to US standards. Tell me where a BMW building like that exists? MB??

Go read the reviews. The Lincoln MKX is a very nice SUV that costs way less to own than a BMW or MB SUV. It is a much nicer car than a Subaru or a RAV or a CRV and in the same class as the MB or BMW. Those are facts. And a nice used MKX is a bargain.
Marylander1
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: Baltimore & DC

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by Marylander1 »

queso wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:52 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:33 am
Marylander1 wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:56 am
EZ James wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:44 am My criteria was:...
5. Dealer must provide 4 types of coffee, 3 types of cookies and wifi all free whenever I visit
Did you seek a car, or a social club? I expect most Bogleheads separate these transactions.

Marylander1
Whoa.... I've spent too many hours sitting in car dealerships over the years while my car is being repaired, so the environment in the waiting area is not unimportant. Gotta have coffee and wifi.
You must not be buying Hondas, Toyotas or Subarus. Euro car guy? :happy
Indeed, we do seem to have different perspectives. In the past 10 years, I've spent a total of 3 hours waiting at car dealerships: 2.5 hours while my recalled Honda airbag was replaced, and a half-hour when they prepared my Subaru for delivery. I've never thought of dealerships as places to linger. I learn a lot from Bogleheads.

Marylander1
User avatar
RootSki
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:52 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by RootSki »

OP if you are still interested/thinking about a new Volvo XC60, as of January, Volvo has added the XC60 T6 into the Overseas Delivery program.

https://www.volvocars.com/us/shopping-t ... s-delivery
randomguy
Posts: 9205
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by randomguy »

btenny wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:30 pm Random. We could argue this for days. We just see things differently. Do you really believe a BMW or MB is more of a American car than a Lincoln? Really? Try convincing a Texan from Dallas who drives a F150 of that view. Really try to convince yourself of that view. Yes some BMW and MB are assembled in the US but the engines and transmissions and many parts are German. The design is German. The style is German. Then tell me where BMW or MB company stock is listed? Those answers are in Germany.

Go to Detroit and you will see a big building that says Ford. It is where US auto engineers work and design cars and get paid. It is where Lincolns are designed and have been for a hundred years. It is where Ford has been since 1903. The Lincoln is a US car and US brand designed to US standards. Tell me where a BMW building like that exists? MB??

Go read the reviews. The Lincoln MKX is a very nice SUV that costs way less to own than a BMW or MB SUV. It is a much nicer car than a Subaru or a RAV or a CRV and in the same class as the MB or BMW. Those are facts. And a nice used MKX is a bargain.
I am just saying that your car isn't american made. You can pull the designed in detroit, made in canada thing like Apple does if you want. Is it better to have 100 good engineering jobs or a 1000 good manufacturing jobs? I will leave it up to you. I know the workers in TN when I lived there where pretty happy with people buying those foreign german cars that were built locally:) And I have no clue what US standards are. I know what my standards are though:)

None of this says the MKX is a bad car. If it matches what you need buy it.
02nz
Posts: 5555
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:17 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by 02nz »

In the age of globalization it's very hard to tell what's an "American" or "German" or whatever car. The best measure is probably the NHTSA's listing of parts content by country (but U.S. and Canada are lumped together, I believe). Many foreign carmakers have models with significantly more North American content than competing "American" models.

And a lot of "American" carmakers' models, aside from parts content, are nowhere near 100% designed/engineered in the U.S. Most Ford, GM, and Fiat/Chrysler passenger cars (not trucks) are engineered by their European subsidiaries/sister companies (in GM's case, former subsidiary Opel). The MKX is based upon a global platform, with a lot of the work done in Europe.
btenny wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:30 pm Go to Detroit and you will see a big building that says Ford. It is where US auto engineers work and design cars and get paid. It is where Lincolns are designed and have been for a hundred years. It is where Ford has been since 1903.
And how has that worked out for Detroit, in the big scheme of things?
btenny wrote: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:30 pm The Lincoln is a US car and US brand designed to US standards.
Yes it is designed to "US standards." But every car sold in the United States is designed, tested, and certified to U.S. standards. Mercedes doesn't just take the same cars they sell in Europe and put them on a ship; even for the same model there are significant differences in engine, emissions, and safety systems, even the location of something as small as a turn signal.
lazydavid
Posts: 3330
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: Which Compact SUV Should I Buy?

Post by lazydavid »

randomguy wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:44 pm I am just saying that your car isn't american made. You can pull the designed in detroit, made in canada thing like Apple does if you want. Is it better to have 100 good engineering jobs or a 1000 good manufacturing jobs? I will leave it up to you. I know the workers in TN when I lived there where pretty happy with people buying those foreign german cars that were built locally:) And I have no clue what US standards are. I know what my standards are though:) \
To further illustrate your point, why not have both? Most of the BMW X series SUVs were penned at BMW Designworks in Newbury Park, California, then built in Spartanburg South Carolina.
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