Electric bill with LED

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Starfish
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by Starfish » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:08 pm
Starfish wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:15 pm
BolderBoy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:05 pm
dmk395 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:30 pm
Anyone notice a significant savings going from incandescent or CFL to LED? For about $50 in bulbs I switched all the bulbs in my house to LED. I did it to save $ and help the environment. Just wondering if anyone actually noticed a real savings month to month...
$50 switched you completely over to LEDs? Was closer to $200 for me (from Costco), various sizes, all 5000k
That can't be right.
Indoor home use bulbs are at 2700K. Even outdoor I wouldn't do 5000K.
This is mainly a personal preference matter. Many (most?) of us find 5000K a harsh, cold color temperature at medium to low intensities at night, and can't stand it in the home. However, when it is the predominant light source at high intensity, it can be a better choice, and 4000-5000K lights are often chosen for office, or laboratory environments. See also, Purkinje effect. It also matches more naturally with daylight.

In fact, for color critical work like graphics design that may take place with some daylight present, the norm is 6500K light, similar to a mix of direct sunlight and diffuse sky light.

For the home, I prefer 2700K for spaces meant for relaxing, and 3000K for activity oriented spaces like the bathroom or kitchen.
The main difference comes from the fact that at home I use the light only when is dark outside and I am couple of hours from going to sleep. Why would you have 5000K in this case?
I am also surprised by the number of people using CFL (really terrible quality of light) and by how many many people still use the old bulbs. From the people I know all switched to LED2-3 years ago, and they where very cheap for a while now. For 1-5$ a bulb it is cost effective to have LEDs.

gks
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Location: Middle Tennessee

Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by gks » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:41 pm

Smoke wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:35 pm
gks wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:25 pm
Here in Tennessee, we pay ~$0.08/kwh. We have an all electric house, which means we have an electric stove, water heater, heat pump, water pump, and clothes dryer. Not to mention a 400 w LED TV. Switching to LED light bulbs is a rounding error in our electric consumption. But then, as the Incandescents die, they do get replaced by LED bulbs.

Greg
Hmmmm Middle Tn as well :sharebeer
Just for the AC costs during that season I would suggest going to LED from Incandescent for the lights that are on for long periods of time each day, Kitchen, bathroom, or where ever. Save the Incandescent bulbs for replacements for those lights used briefly as they run out then LED.
Smoke,

Lights that are on for a long length of time are now LED. Kitchen, bathroom are short intervals. Even kitchen and dining room. How long does one have dinner.

Greg

Smoke
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by Smoke » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:37 pm

gks wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:41 pm
Smoke wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:35 pm
gks wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:25 pm
Here in Tennessee, we pay ~$0.08/kwh. We have an all electric house, which means we have an electric stove, water heater, heat pump, water pump, and clothes dryer. Not to mention a 400 w LED TV. Switching to LED light bulbs is a rounding error in our electric consumption. But then, as the Incandescents die, they do get replaced by LED bulbs.

Greg
Hmmmm Middle Tn as well :sharebeer
Just for the AC costs during that season I would suggest going to LED from Incandescent for the lights that are on for long periods of time each day, Kitchen, bathroom, or where ever. Save the Incandescent bulbs for replacements for those lights used briefly as they run out then LED.
Smoke,

Lights that are on for a long length of time are now LED. Kitchen, bathroom are short intervals. Even kitchen and dining room. How long does one have dinner.

Greg
One thing I can say for the benefit of LEDs, I do not feel the need to flip off a light switch as much anymore with LEDs when I walk into an unoccupied room. As in the past there was a direct time correlation between my flipping the switch to off and the emergence of another family member filpping it back on and usually included "the look" if you catch the reference. LEDs in that way have reduced not on the electric bill somewhat but some friction as well :D
Arguing for the sake of arguing is something I am not going to engage in.

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dmk395
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by dmk395 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:53 pm

As an update, I've used about 20% less KWH from the previous month, and also the same month last year.
I'm pleased.

michaeljc70
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by michaeljc70 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:38 pm

Sorry, I haven't read all the (3 pages) of comments so I may be duplicating. CFLs were pretty efficient (hate the color and delay some had), so I doubt there would be a big difference. It seems in Googling it you will save $10 in electricity costs per bulb over 23 years. That is 44 cents per year per bulb. The bigger savings (and hassle) probably comes from the fact that LED bulbs typically last 3 times as long as CFL bulbs. If you are moving to LED from incandescent, that is a much bigger difference.

quantAndHold
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:10 am

Our local electric utility has bulb swaps every year. You take a bunch of old light bulbs to them, and they give you LED bulbs. There was a limit of so many per year, so we started the first year with the lights that are on all the time. I think they're all swapped out now.

Never noticed much difference in the electric bill, but the light produced by the LED bulbs is better.

aqan
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by aqan » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:21 am

wilked wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:45 pm
If I remember right changing a house full of CFL to a house full of LED might have a payback of about 3-5 years.

Your energy savings will be on the order of $20/month at most
did you mean $2/month? at $20/month the payback will be 3 months.

Valuethinker
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by Valuethinker » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:18 am

michaeljc70 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:38 pm
Sorry, I haven't read all the (3 pages) of comments so I may be duplicating. CFLs were pretty efficient (hate the color and delay some had), so I doubt there would be a big difference. It seems in Googling it you will save $10 in electricity costs per bulb over 23 years. That is 44 cents per year per bulb. The bigger savings (and hassle) probably comes from the fact that LED bulbs typically last 3 times as long as CFL bulbs. If you are moving to LED from incandescent, that is a much bigger difference.
The savings are dependent upon how many kwhr pcm you save, and what price you pay for electricity.

If you live in California (some service areas) and Connecticut or New York, for example, the average electricity price can be nearly double US average.

Agree the shift from CFL to LED is not dramatic in electricity usage terms. However I find most people are swapping out halogen bulbs from kitchens and bathrooms and 1. there are lots of them 2. they burn 50 watts each 3. they are used quite frequently.

LEDs did not work well with dimmer switches (or at all) but I think that problem has been fixed.

samsdad
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by samsdad » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:42 am

Nissanzx1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:14 pm
I didn't really notice any changes. Where we live, the power company is asking for a special rate increase because so many people have switched to LED and high efficiency appliances that they want to recoup those losses...
Much like the water company where my parents live. The water company asked everyone to conserve. They did. Now they want a rate increase. Completely unforseeable I’m sure.

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nisiprius
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by nisiprius » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:02 am

In our neighborhood, one of the popular outdoor Christmas decorations is the "net" style of Christmas lights--hundreds of tiny bulbs embedded in a mesh that can be thrown over a bush or hedge. In some cases, the hedges border the sidewalk, so that you are walking right next to them. Two of them are actually the old style that use tiny miniature incandescent bulbs, others use LEDs. It is not a terribly dramatic effect, but I can feel some radiated warmth from the incandescents, but not the LEDs.
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dodecahedron
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by dodecahedron » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:21 am

Valuethinker wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:18 am
The savings are dependent upon how many kwhr pcm you save, and what price you pay for electricity.

If you live in California (some service areas) and Connecticut or New York, for example, the average electricity price can be nearly double US average.
Agree that savings are very location-dependent, even within a state. New York downstate prices for residential use (e.g., NYC, Westchester County) have been much more expensive than upstate for reasons described here.

robphoto
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by robphoto » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:04 am

You might be able to go to LED bulbs for free--

Not sure if it's noted above, but where we are the power company has a program for energy efficiency where they evaluate your house and recommend heavily-subsidized upgrades to your house (air infiltration sealing, insulation, etc.) and also they replace all the bulbs that they can with LED's (at no cost, and they put them in). Check with your energy provider.

dbr
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by dbr » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:41 am

We are 95% LED and it doesn't matter because most of our electricity use is heating, cooling, and cooking.

What LEDs do for us is avoid the frequent changing of bulbs, especially the one's that involve risk to life and limb to reach, which is what caused the first excursion to LEDs some years ago.

As an aside (knock on wood) we have never had an LED bulb fail.

Valuethinker
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by Valuethinker » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:23 am

samsdad wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:42 am
Nissanzx1 wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:14 pm
I didn't really notice any changes. Where we live, the power company is asking for a special rate increase because so many people have switched to LED and high efficiency appliances that they want to recoup those losses...
Much like the water company where my parents live. The water company asked everyone to conserve. They did. Now they want a rate increase. Completely unforseeable I’m sure.
If there is not enough water there is not enough water. Conservation is the only solution.

However the existing asset base must be maintained. Thus the revenues plus an inflation factor needs to be maintained and to the extent that volume dies not grow you will need per unit price increases.

Usually the water supply problem can be solved with massive capex. The cost of new reservoirs etc can run to billions and certainly 10s of millions for a municipal water authority.

Conservation is a good alternative to spending 10s of thousands per household.

The problem in the American west is *There is no more water*. Even in non drought years most watersheds are at or above 100 per cent extraction.

So the solutions are conservation or recycling.

Conservation may involve buying out farm water rights. Much of the US west should never have been farmed.

Desalination is hideously expensive and has it's own environmental problems. For coastal Californian cities it may make sense.

Toilet to tank recycling fails the ughhh test. But it works in communities worldwide and actually produces cleaner tap water than extraction. It's just s mental hurdle.

Water supply is now a problem across the world. The only solutions require big spending.

Your parents water company may be deferring huge and expensive capital spending by encouraging conservation.

But that does not mean water rates go down.

Valuethinker
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Re: Electric bill with LED

Post by Valuethinker » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:39 am

dbr wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:41 am
We are 95% LED and it doesn't matter because most of our electricity use is heating, cooling, and cooking.

What LEDs do for us is avoid the frequent changing of bulbs, especially the one's that involve risk to life and limb to reach, which is what caused the first excursion to LEDs some years ago.

As an aside (knock on wood) we have never had an LED bulb fail.


10 dollars a month is still 120 dollars a year post tax.

120 dollars is still 120 dollars even if your utility bill is 500 pcm.

Agreed the excess energy is not "lost" in winter because it hears your home. But probably only at 1/3 rd efficiency of a Heat pump.

Agree nor having to change bulbs is a major win.

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