New TV Recommendations Please?

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Small Law Survivor
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New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Small Law Survivor »

We purchased our first and only flat screen TV sometime in the early 2000s - a 43" Toshiba REGZA. However, for some reason it has not held up - there is no definition in "dark" scenes. We strain to see objects and people in night scenes, for example.

Last night my wife said, "tomorrow's black Friday, why don't we get a new TV tomorrow?"

Me: "OK (I know this was coming), but I haven't researched or looked into this at all, I don't keep up with TV technology, and I haven't the slightest idea what to buy."

Wife: "Well, you're always looking at TVs at COSTCO, can't we just go down there and take a look? This can't be that complicated. You overthink everything."

Me: "Guilty as charged."

So, that said, could you help me out? We'd need a replacement, probably larger than 43". We don't wall-mount the 43", we use a TV stand, and I'd prefer to continue to do that, even with a larger TV. We have Verizon FIOS hardwired, and ROKU via wifi.

I looked at Wirecutter, and they recommend:

TOP PICK - VIZIO - LED - P-Series - 2160p - Smart - 4K UHD TV with HDR, for $310, which seems alarmingly cheap to me - do good flat screen TVs really cost this little these days?

But then they start talking about -

OLED vs. LCD (this seems like a major difference)
HDR and WCG (and "local dimming")
Dolby Vision
Refresh rates (120, 60 ...)
Ultra HD/4K TV (looks like this is standard)
built in ROKU - we have a stand-alone ROKU, so this would be nice. On the other hands, ROKU keeps updating their box, and if the ROKU is built into the TV, I assume you can't update it (?)
Center-mounted pedestal vs. wide-stance stands

Note: Wirecutter talks a lot about TVs for bright rooms/dark rooms. Our TV room is not bright - sunlight doesn't hit the windows.
Note: Wirecutter says the TVs that go on sale on Black Friday are typically cheaper poor performers. Got it.

I've spent about an hour on TV research so far, and I can see that I could spend many more - TV review sites are legion. But, I don't want to do this. Your advice and recommendations would be much appreciated.
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nasrullah
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by nasrullah »

I’ve been very happy with the TVL series 5 that we bought. Yes TVs are cheap and they depreciate almost 100% instantly so I’ve been reluctant to spend any real money on one.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by RickBoglehead »

I'd argue that the several dozen (at best) responses you get here are nothing compared to the knowledge you'll find on those other sites.

While I agree that some sites/stores sell crap on BF, I'd say that Costco by and large does not. Too many people trust Costco for everything, which I find disturbing, go read reviews on their own site for products that people say are bad yet they keep selling them. However, buying a TV with a 2 year warranty, plus a 2 year additional warranty from your Costco card (or any Citi card), is a no brainer. We bought a 60 inch several years ago (not on Black Friday). Remember two things:

1) Costco will price match themselves for 30 days.

2) Citi's Price Rewind no longer works on things bought at Clubs, like Costco.

I think you should spend more time on research and ignore wife (HA!). Seriously, don't just go buy until you get your questions answered like the updating of ROKU.

Edit - ditto on figuring proper size for viewing. We can't go much bigger than the 60" we bought.

Our TV has internet connectivity and some "apps". I use a PC connected to the TV for all internet streaming, much faster and easier.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexa9
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Alexa9 »

I would buy LG or Samsung. OLED is great but significantly more expensive. I would definitely calculate the correct size for viewing distance. I would not get an Android/Roku/Alexa TV. I'd prefer they were separate in case there are bugs. Most TV's are 4K now. I don't think HDR is necessary if you're looking to save money but you may like it.
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dwickenh
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by dwickenh »

If you want to upgrade an older tv(mine was 7 years old), I went with an inexpensive Vizio 70 inch e70-f3 4k UHD tv from Best Buy for 749.00.

It is a major upgrade from my Phillips 55 inch HD tv. I decided not to spend the 2500 needed to get the newest technology, as I am not that sensitive to

the difference.

Good luck on your hunt.

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett
wfrobinette
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by wfrobinette »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:16 am We purchased our first and only flat screen TV sometime in the early 2000s - a 43" Toshiba REGZA. However, for some reason it has not held up - there is no definition in "dark" scenes. We strain to see objects and people in night scenes, for example.

Last night my wife said, "tomorrow's black Friday, why don't we get a new TV tomorrow?"

Me: "OK (I know this was coming), but I haven't researched or looked into this at all, I don't keep up with TV technology, and I haven't the slightest idea what to buy."

Wife: "Well, you're always looking at TVs at COSTCO, can't we just go down there and take a look? This can't be that complicated. You overthink everything."

Me: "Guilty as charged."

So, that said, could you help me out? We'd need a replacement, probably larger than 43". We don't wall-mount the 43", we use a TV stand, and I'd prefer to continue to do that, even with a larger TV. We have Verizon FIOS hardwired, and ROKU via wifi.

I looked at Wirecutter, and they recommend:

TOP PICK - VIZIO - LED - P-Series - 2160p - Smart - 4K UHD TV with HDR, for $310, which seems alarmingly cheap to me - do good flat screen TVs really cost this little these days?

But then they start talking about -

OLED vs. LCD (this seems like a major difference)
HDR and WCG (and "local dimming")
Dolby Vision
Refresh rates (120, 60 ...)
Ultra HD/4K TV (looks like this is standard)
built in ROKU - we have a stand-alone ROKU, so this would be nice. On the other hands, ROKU keeps updating their box, and if the ROKU is built into the TV, I assume you can't update it (?)
Center-mounted pedestal vs. wide-stance stands

Note: Wirecutter talks a lot about TVs for bright rooms/dark rooms. Our TV room is not bright - sunlight doesn't hit the windows.
Note: Wirecutter says the TVs that go on sale on Black Friday are typically cheaper poor performers. Got it.

I've spent about an hour on TV research so far, and I can see that I could spend many more - TV review sites are legion. But, I don't want to do this. Your advice and recommendations would be much appreciated.
https://www.rtings.com/tv

Good TVs go on sale for Black Friday too! Good TVs are going to cost $799+ Excellent 1499+

I never use the TVs onboard builtin netflix, amazon, etc. It slow and clunky. Roku has their top 4k HDR box on sale for $45. If you upgrade the TV to 4K get the new roku. It makes a world of difference for shows that are 4k and HDR.

OLed has come way down. THe LG Electronics OLED65B8PUA 65-Inch 4K Ultra HD Smart OLED TV (2018 Model) is a great TV. Its 2199 now. It was over 3k in dec 2016. Sony has entered this market as well.
epictetus
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by epictetus »

go with your wife to Costco and buy one that she likes
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Watty
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Watty »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:16 am Wife: "Well, you're always looking at TVs at COSTCO, can't we just go down there and take a look? This can't be that complicated. You overthink everything."
Bingo. :beer

With a four years warranty if you buy it with a Costco Credit card for 90%+ of people just getting one for a couple of hundred dollars then buying it like like that is fine since you can only tell the difference between many TV's when they are side by side.

When I bought my last TV I did that and when I got to Costco they had a number of models that did not show up on the internet so going there in person makes sense.

A couple of things to look at;

1) That it has enough connectors, like HDMI and sound, to hook up to the equipment your have, with a few to spare. Some of the Black Friday specials at other places are bare bone systems that only have a few connectors which is part of the way they get the price to be so low.

2) It actually has a TV tuner if you get over the air stations with an antenna. Some don't and require that you hook it up to something like a cable box.

3) It has Apps like Netflix if you want that. This will periodically be updated.

4) Be sure to get at least a basic soundbar if you don't already have one. The tiny speakers on TV's are a joke and pretty much just for testing to make sure the sound is working.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by 02nz »

Rtings.com is probably the most comprehensive TV testing site. They have a roundup of the deals (taking into consideration which units performed well): https://www.rtings.com/tv/deals.

The Vizio P series and the TCL 6 series are excellent value for the money. They're established brands by now, so no worries there, unless you just must have a Sony, Samsung, or whatever badge.

But for best picture quality regardless of money, there's just no beating OLED. And LG is the only name there (well Sony also "makes" OLED TVs, but they're even pricier and panels still come from LG). You can get a 55-inch OLED for about $1700, less some places. All the 2018 models (look for an 8 at the end of the model number) have identical picture quality except for the entry-level B8, which has a slightly inferior processor (small difference, still way better than any LCD/LED).

EDIT TO ADD: Since you already have Roku and presumably like it, give extra consideration to TCL, which has Roku built-in. It's better than just about any other smart TV platform out there.
Last edited by 02nz on Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by bob60014 »

02nz
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by 02nz »

Watty wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:00 am can't we just go down there and take a look?
This is probably the worst way to shop for a TV. The TVs will all be adjusted differently; a few changes to the settings and they'd all look VERY different. And many of them will be adjusted to look best under the harsh lights of the store (especially bad at Costco), which is very different from how they'd look in your home.

The best TVs for picture quality - plasma several years ago, OLED now - often won't look as good as LCDs under these conditions, because LCDs can go brighter. (I suspect this is one of the reasons plasmas went away; those "in the know" knew they had the best picture quality and often cost less than LCDs, but people shopping by gawking thought plasmas were dimmer and inferior.)

So, do your research to find the right model, then find the right deal. When you open it up at home, use the "cinema" or "movie" setting - most TVs have one and it's usually the most accurate, natural-looking setting. You'll be amazed, especially in comparison to a years-old Toshiba.
Last edited by 02nz on Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
bloom2708
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by bloom2708 »

OLED

Don’t mess around. Open the pocket book.

:D
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bubbadog
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by bubbadog »

All of the TVs made now are 4K TVs.

First decision is if you want an LED (also referred to as LCD TVs) vs OLED TV.

OLED is the latest technology and is widely considered to have the absolute best picture quality. Downsides are they are more expensive, the risk of burn in from static images left on the screen for a prolonged time, and they are generally not as bright as LED TVs. Picture quality also does not degrade when viewing the TV from the side (off axis). LG and Sony are the only two companies that sell OLED TVS in the US currently. The LG C8 OLED is considered the best value for OLEDs right now by many reviewers. LG makes all of the display panels for both brands.

There are many more options at different price points for LED TVs. They have no risk of burn in, cheaper for a given size, but picture quality degrades when viewing from the side. TCL is a Chinese manufacturer that is one of the cheaper brands selling LED TVs. Vizio is also relatively cheap compared with some of the more established and well known brands (LG, Sony, Samsung). All of the manufacturers sell good, better, and best versions of their TVs at different price points.

I would suggest a quick Youtube search for Rtings or Digital Trends videos for recommendations at different price points. I would not recommend choosing based on how they look in the store. They are all being shown using 4K source material and your picture from cable/satellite with non 4K regular programming will be a disappointment.

Best of luck
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Kenkat
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Kenkat »

I had a 55in e series Vizio TV lose picture after about a year and a half. I was able to get it fixed for around $125 (the TV repair guy was correct when he guessed the solder joints had cracked between one of two different boards - a common issue). The $125 was covered by a credit card extended warranty but the repair took 3 weeks so we replaced it with a 60in Samsung 4k - bought before Black Friday two years ago but price adjusted to $699.

The Vizio is still going strong down in the basement.

I would probably stick with Sony, LG or Samsung based on my anecdotal experience. You will probably end up with something you like if you just go to a store and look at them and decide what price point you like.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by FireSekr »

The issue you describe with your current tv not having great performance in dark scenes is something that OLED TVs excel at. LCD TVs look bright and flashy in the store, but they struggle to produce deep inky blacks and subtle color gradiations. In a properly lit room, OLED TVs will produce much more lifelike almost 3D looking picture compared to the flat, overly saturated LED TVs.

Given that you seem to keep your TV quite a long time, don’t rush the decision. OLED is the way to go. Get the largest you can fit. I currently have a 55” plasma but if I were to replace it, a 65” would be slightly bigger but pretty much fit in the same area because the bezels on new TVs are much smaller.

I don’t know how big your room is, but anything less than 55 is probably too small these days unless it’s a really small room
randomguy
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by randomguy »

ssquared87 wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:32 pm The issue you describe with your current tv not having great performance in dark scenes is something that OLED TVs excel at. LCD TVs look bright and flashy in the store, but they struggle to produce deep inky blacks and subtle color gradiations. In a properly lit room, OLED TVs will produce much more lifelike almost 3D looking picture compared to the flat, overly saturated LED TVs.

Given that you seem to keep your TV quite a long time, don’t rush the decision. OLED is the way to go. Get the largest you can fit. I currently have a 55” plasma but if I were to replace it, a 65” would be slightly bigger but pretty much fit in the same area because the bezels on new TVs are much smaller.

I don’t know how big your room is, but anything less than 55 is probably too small these days unless it’s a really small room
OLED is the money is no object answer. Is it worth 1k+more than the LED version? That is very personal. Modern LED tvs are much, much better in terms on contrast and black levels compared to the ones from 15 years ago. Given that the OP wasnt willing to pay 1k to get a better TV in the past 10 years, I have a feeling they will be very happy with any of the 500 buck TVs out there.

Definitely try to up the size to what you can fit. Getting even a 50' gives you a ton more visible space and with todays thin bezels they might not even be that much bigger.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by tennisplyr »

Got a Samsung 50" Ultra HD/4K TV a year ago at Costco and like it/no issues.
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student
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by student »

I think the only decision here is OLED or regular led. TV's are now commodities. Any one of the major brands will do.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Nestegg_User »

.... but you still need to check their refresh rate.... some of the systems are still 60 Hz or 120 Hz and not the 240 Hz ( or better) you would want for sports/action. I saw today some in BB that were 60 Hz for their B-F sale (didn’t look too closely since I was looking for laptop)
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Strayshot »

The 65 inch vizio quantum at Costco for 1400 was my best deal pick, if they still have them that would be a no brainer in my opinion.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

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02nz
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by 02nz »

Strayshot wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:52 pm The 65 inch vizio quantum at Costco for 1400 was my best deal pick, if they still have them that would be a no brainer in my opinion.
I wouldn't pay $1400 for a 65-inch Vizio when a 65-inch OLED can be had for $500 more: https://slickdeals.net/f/12339679-autho ... =frontpage
PFInterest
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by PFInterest »

Strayshot wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:52 pm The 65 inch vizio quantum at Costco for 1400 was my best deal pick, if they still have them that would be a no brainer in my opinion.
Absolutely not.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by scorcher31 »

PFInterest wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 7:58 pm
Strayshot wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:52 pm The 65 inch vizio quantum at Costco for 1400 was my best deal pick, if they still have them that would be a no brainer in my opinion.
Absolutely not.
I'm curious why the absolutely not. The Vizio P quantum is the highest rated non oled tv on rtings. Its supposed to be like the highest end Samsung qled for the lower qled price. Yes, I realize QLED is basically just a gimmicky led, but this TV was supposed to be THE non OLED alternative. I was actually considering getting this model but it was always sold out.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by randomguy »

student wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:05 pm I think the only decision here is OLED or regular led. TV's are now commodities. Any one of the major brands will do.
The picture quality difference between the 600 dollar 65' samsung LED and the 3000 65" samsung LED is as big of picture quality difference as OLED and top shelf LED.

How much you want to pay for better picture quality is up to you. For a lot of peope the 600 TV are well above the cut off threshold were added picture quality doesn't add much value. Other people want to spend 3x as much so they can talk about inky blacks. Figure out who you are and what matters do you.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

randomguy wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:27 pm Other people want to spend 3x as much so they can talk about inky blacks.
With respect, I’d feel like a tool talking about inky blacks, but I sure do like seeing them :D
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by randomguy »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:32 pm
randomguy wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:27 pm Other people want to spend 3x as much so they can talk about inky blacks.
With respect, I’d feel like a tool talking about inky blacks, but I sure do like seeing them :D
So you paid 3x as much to post about inky blacks?:) And OLED owners are like Tesla owners and crossfitters. It comes up eventually:) Seriously if money is no object, than OLED is pretty much the way to go. If a 2000 OLED TV will make you happier than a 1000 LED and 1k worth of pizzas, I will leave it up to you. Modern TV's picture quality is well above the watchable bar for most people. You start talking to professional reviewers and videophiles and the TV set that has a picture 2x better than what you have watched for a decade is considered unwatchable:). Same thing happens with cars where the most important thing to reviewers seems to be how far above the speed limit you can take corners at:). When buying things you need to know what you value and don't value and how much is just marketing to make you buy stuff you don't want.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by stoptothink »

randomguy wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:47 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:32 pm
randomguy wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:27 pm Other people want to spend 3x as much so they can talk about inky blacks.
With respect, I’d feel like a tool talking about inky blacks, but I sure do like seeing them :D
So you paid 3x as much to post about inky blacks?:) And OLED owners are like Tesla owners and crossfitters. It comes up eventually:) Seriously if money is no object, than OLED is pretty much the way to go. If a 2000 OLED TV will make you happier than a 1000 LED and 1k worth of pizzas, I will leave it up to you. Modern TV's picture quality is well above the watchable bar for most people. You start talking to professional reviewers and videophiles and the TV set that has a picture 2x better than what you have watched for a decade is considered unwatchable:). Same thing happens with cars where the most important thing to reviewers seems to be how far above the speed limit you can take corners at:). When buying things you need to know what you value and don't value and how much is just marketing to make you buy stuff you don't want.
+1. I guess I am just not a "visual-phile," even looking at them side-by-side I really cannot tell the difference. No different than someone telling me how much better their $1k headphones are than the ones I spent $50 on. It's your money, but for mine, the diminishing returns of better TVs (and audio equipment) is essentially nonexistent.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

@randomguy, the reason I posted that is because I recently purchased a non-OLED TV for the den. The kids play video games and I was worried about burn-in on an OLED, and I didn’t know that the price on the 77” LG had come down. So, I bought a 75” LED TV, and it turns out that my wife and I frequently watch in that room, and I realized that I’d made a mistake I’m not getting the OLED, burn-in be damned.

I’m nearly 70 years old, and my eyesight isn’t what it used to be, but the experience of watching on an OLED is worth the extra money to me.

And, @stoptothink, my wife and I just spent hours today listening to music on our new stereo. Worth every penny.

ETA: I have two OLED TVs, just smaller.
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stoptothink
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by stoptothink »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:18 pm
And, @stoptothink, my wife and I just spent hours today listening to music on our new stereo. Worth every penny.
Easy to say when you have financial resources for the cost not to really matter. I wonder if you were blindfolded, if you could even tell the difference between your high-end system and something 1/5th the cost. I know from experience that I can't - I have quite a bit of time with a home audio system including Meridian speakers - but maybe your ears are more "refined" than mine.

Based upon the OP - their current TV and what they were looking at now -, my guess is (like most people), they probably would struggle to see any difference between a halfway decent LED and an OLED.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by carguyny »

Best options when I was looking were the Samsung Q9FN (QLED) and LG OLED 8 series. We went the Samsung for the simple reason our room is very bright and the picture in the middle of sunlight is outstanding. No regrets on the decision, but next one we will buy is likely the LG OLED Wallpaper TV as that room is dark. I don't know if the Panasonic OLEDs have arrived here yet, or ever will, but that would be my number 1 choice.

Both LG and Samsung are great options - go with what works best for your situation.
Sic Vis Pacem
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Sic Vis Pacem »

I'll add to the chorus on a good OLED TV. LG has the most experience in this field and their blacks really must be seen to understand (and no, you cannot do this in the store as there is way too much bright white ambient light). My upstairs neighbor just picked up the new Samsung QLED model and I'm really impressed with the color. Brighter than the OLED, but cannot do the infinite contrast of OLED (although it's close). They are a bit less expensive than OLED. 4K and HDR really are a must at this point if you're going over 40". Both are close to the tipping point of becoming streaming standards, with broadcast not too far behind.

I'm a fan of AVForums.com for this type of info. The site can be a little ungainly to search, but you can find just about anything there. I also definitely recommend AVForums for adjusting the settings on your TV once you get it, whatever you select.

Enjoy!
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by student »

randomguy wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:27 pm
student wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:05 pm I think the only decision here is OLED or regular led. TV's are now commodities. Any one of the major brands will do.
The picture quality difference between the 600 dollar 65' samsung LED and the 3000 65" samsung LED is as big of picture quality difference as OLED and top shelf LED.

How much you want to pay for better picture quality is up to you. For a lot of peope the 600 TV are well above the cut off threshold were added picture quality doesn't add much value. Other people want to spend 3x as much so they can talk about inky blacks. Figure out who you are and what matters do you.
I actually agree with you. I gave the recommendation based on OP's question, which I concluded that he is not a videophile. In my experience, $600 range tv is fine for most folks, which you have also pointed out. Of course, calibration is also important.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:18 pm
And, @stoptothink, my wife and I just spent hours today listening to music on our new stereo. Worth every penny.
Easy to say when you have financial resources for the cost not to really matter. I wonder if you were blindfolded, if you could even tell the difference between your high-end system and something 1/5th the cost. I know from experience that I can't - I have quite a bit of time with a home audio system including Meridian speakers - but maybe your ears are more "refined" than mine.

Based upon the OP - their current TV and what they were looking at now -, my guess is (like most people), they probably would struggle to see any difference between a halfway decent LED and an OLED.
The cost matters, but not as much as it did 10 years ago.

I agree that OP, since they haven’t upgraded in many years, probably doesn’t care.

I care about video and audio, in the same way that some people spend a lot on fine Scotch or wine. It’s all lighter fluid to me, and I prefer water or iced tea.

On the blindfold test, I’ll take that bet. In fairness, even a half deaf person could distinguish electrostatic speakers (even hybrids) from dynamic speakers blindfolded.
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FireSekr
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by FireSekr »

:twisted:
stoptothink wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:18 pm
And, @stoptothink, my wife and I just spent hours today listening to music on our new stereo. Worth every penny.
I wonder if you were blindfolded, if you could even tell the difference between your high-end system and something 1/5th the cost. I know from experience that I can't - I have quite a bit of time with a home audio system including Meridian speakers - but maybe your ears are more "refined" than mine.

Based upon the OP - their current TV and what they were looking at now -, my guess is (like most people), they probably would struggle to see any difference between a halfway decent LED and an OLED.
There’s a point of diminishing returns. I can easily tell the difference between a $300 audio system and a $3000 audio system. Going from a $3k system to $30k I can’t really notice much difference.

Same goes for TVs. Jumping to even the cheapest OLED is a significant improvement vs anything else.

I don’t understand the comments about OP not caring about picture quality just because they have an old TV.

I bought one of the best TVs available at the time and it’s 8 years old. Just because I haven’t upgraded doesn’t mean that picture quality isn’t important to me. Sure, many TVs on the market today have better picture compared to my 8 year old one, but I’m not going to replace it just because better options are out. That doesn’t mean I would be satisfied buying a mediocre TV if I were buying today just because it’s better than what I have. I compare the options available to each other, not to my 8 year old TV.

If I were in the market for a TV now, I’d buy the 65” LG OLED. I look at them all the time at stores, but can’t bring myself to replace my plasma which works fine even though there’s a huge improvement in quality.
inbox788
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by inbox788 »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:48 pmThe cost matters, but not as much as it did 10 years ago.

I agree that OP, since they haven’t upgraded in many years, probably doesn’t care.

I care about video and audio, in the same way that some people spend a lot on fine Scotch or wine. It’s all lighter fluid to me, and I prefer water or iced tea.

On the blindfold test, I’ll take that bet. In fairness, even a half deaf person could distinguish electrostatic speakers (even hybrids) from dynamic speakers blindfolded.
Cost matter much, much less than 10 years ago. I saw a number of deals under $300 on 50-60" TVs that I would have purchased if I needed to. Few deals below $200, unless you went very small or very cheap and for 60"+, the price jumps to $500+, which should also be considered if that's within one's budget and size requirements.

OP, I'm guessing contrast is a big part of your problem and this 2011 review shows contrast ratio 2500:1.
https://uk.pcmag.com/tvs/5916/toshiba-regza-46xv545u
I pulled a random more recent TV and it quotes contrast ratio of 25,000:1.
https://www.pcmag.com/review/355260/vizio-d43-e2

Specs aren't everything, and you should certainly test out the tv, but I recall having an old set > 10 years ago with contrast 600:1 or 800:1, but I remember watching CSI Miami and the colors, especially the greens still really popped.

I'm guessing almost any modern tv will be a big improvement over what you currently have from over 10 years ago. You can try to catch one of these BF specials and be done fairly cheap, or spend a little more (time and money) and maybe need to upgrade your cabinet to hold a 65" or 85" QLED or OLED.
msk
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by msk »

My buying process for the past 10+ years for the 3 TVs we keep constantly (I do not wish to share the remote between soaps/movies/docs/MTV between DW and kids). All the viewing distances are around 14ft (168 inches) hence target screen size is an 84 inch screen, too large for our budget until recently. Budget < $6k. Under consideration Sony and Samsung. For some reason our experiences with LG washing machines kept LG out. Over the years that budget bought us a Sony rear-projection 70", a few years later a Samsung LED 65", then a Sony 75"and the latest is a Sony 85". I upgraded one room at a time, with the kids getting the oldest and the surplus unit given to charity. They seem to work forever! All were the top-of-the-range at each juncture and the upgrading of the LED screens was on the basis of a +10" screen size (65 to 75 to 85) within the $6k budget. Yes! there is an obvious difference with each upgrade. But the difference between a Sony 9000 series and an 8000 series is minimal. Ditto for Samsung ranges. If budget is limited to squeeze in the top-of-the-range I would advise going for a larger screen in the second tier of the same brand.
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Small Law Survivor
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Small Law Survivor »

bubbadog wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:35 am OLED is the latest technology and is widely considered to have the absolute best picture quality. Downsides are they are more expensive, the risk of burn in from static images left on the screen for a prolonged time, and they are generally not as bright as LED TVs. Picture quality also does not degrade when viewing the TV from the side (off axis). LG and Sony are the only two companies that sell OLED TVS in the US currently. The LG C8 OLED is considered the best value for OLEDs right now by many reviewers. LG makes all of the display panels for both brands.
Well, we did visit our local COSTCO, just to look at the various TVs. We actually learned quite a bit.

The TV we ended up focusing on is the LG C8 OLED you mentioned. The only problem I see with it is "burn in" risk - quite a few people complain about this under the product reviews on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TSV11D/?c ... dp_it&th=1

At this point I'm wondering whether that is a reason not to buy this TV. It would come with a COSTCO warranty (we would buy w/a COSTCO card), so perhaps that mitigates the risk, given COSCO's return policy?
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Strayshot wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:52 pm The 65 inch vizio quantum at Costco for 1400 was my best deal pick, if they still have them that would be a no brainer in my opinion.
I can't wait.. mine is on order.

I'm upgrading from a 61inch samsung DLP (short cabinet, only 9 inches or so).. i figure i haven't bought a tv in 10ish years, go big or go home. and it is still cheaper then the last one i bought.

and if i don't like it, i'll just return it...
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

The TV we ended up focusing on is the LG C8 OLED you mentioned. The only problem I see with it is "burn in" risk - quite a few people complain about this under the product reviews on Amazon:
IMO, burn-in won’t be a problem unless you keep a static image on the screen for hours (video games). If it fits in your budget, this TV will make you happy for years. I think it’s a large improvement over the B8 (which has a lesser processor, but the same screen). LG C models are, IMO, the sweet spot: considerable better than the B, and the E don’t give much extra for the money.
Last edited by TomatoTomahto on Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by kjvmartin »

I like Samsung QLEDs for their color saturation. Beautifully deep & rich hues.

For my wife, this was much more appealing to her eye than the OLEDs with their deep blacks. The Samsung looked more "alive."

Honestly, there's a lot of hype about these newer features on TVs. I believe it's marketing and psychology trying to get people to buy a new TV ahead of schedule. Your TV is old enough to warrant a replacement, but I don't believe you need to fuss too much about the details.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by kjvmartin »

I like Samsung QLEDs for their color saturation. Beautifully deep & rich hues.

For my wife, this was much more appealing to her eye than the OLEDs with their deep blacks. The Samsung looked more "alive."

Honestly, there's a lot of hype about these newer features on TVs. I believe it's marketing and psychology trying to get people to buy a new TV ahead of schedule. Your TV is old enough to warrant a replacement, but I don't believe you need to fuss too much about the details.
kerplunk
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by kerplunk »

The best consumer TV you can buy is the LG C8 OLED.

If you don't want that, I would only recommend TVs from this list: https://www.cnet.com/topics/tvs/best-tv ... e-quality/
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by 28fe6 »

02nz wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:13 am
Watty wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:00 am can't we just go down there and take a look?
The best TVs for picture quality - plasma several years ago, OLED now - often won't look as good as LCDs under these conditions, because LCDs can go brighter. (I suspect this is one of the reasons plasmas went away; those "in the know" knew they had the best picture quality and often cost less than LCDs, but people shopping by gawking thought plasmas were dimmer and inferior.)
The death of the plasma screen can be laid at the feet of EnergyStar. They decided to rate panel energy use by the square inch, without regards to the technology or panel size, then kept reducing the allowable power until plasma screens were basically banned. They weren't even merciful enough to do a "CAFE-like" scheme so plasmas could be diluted by other more efficient technologies.

I love my Panasonic plasma screen. The super advanced LED panels are getting close, and I look forward to OLED, but nothing quite like a plasma screen for movies.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by bubbadog »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:04 am
bubbadog wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:35 am OLED is the latest technology and is widely considered to have the absolute best picture quality. Downsides are they are more expensive, the risk of burn in from static images left on the screen for a prolonged time, and they are generally not as bright as LED TVs. Picture quality also does not degrade when viewing the TV from the side (off axis). LG and Sony are the only two companies that sell OLED TVS in the US currently. The LG C8 OLED is considered the best value for OLEDs right now by many reviewers. LG makes all of the display panels for both brands.
Well, we did visit our local COSTCO, just to look at the various TVs. We actually learned quite a bit.

The TV we ended up focusing on is the LG C8 OLED you mentioned. The only problem I see with it is "burn in" risk - quite a few people complain about this under the product reviews on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TSV11D/?c ... dp_it&th=1

At this point I'm wondering whether that is a reason not to buy this TV. It would come with a COSTCO warranty (we would buy w/a COSTCO card), so perhaps that mitigates the risk, given COSCO's return policy?
I suspect the risk of burn in is largely overstated. I would not let that concern dissuade you from considering the LG C8.

I am planning on purchasing a 77 inch version of that TV myself. It takes extreme viewing conditions to cause burn in.

The TV also has several mitigation strategies built in to prevent this. It automatically runs a pixel refresh cycle after 4 hours of use when you turn it off. It also shifts the pixels occasionally (you won't notice) to help minimize the risk. Static logos on the screen are also gradually dimmed to prevent burn in.

The Sony OLEDs are also very good but priced a little higher. Their user interface is also considered by many to be less user friendly and slow.

IMO the LG OLED C8 is the best value for someone who wants the best picture quality currently available. I am not alone is this opinion. Multiple online reviewers share this opinion.
02nz
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by 02nz »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:04 am The TV we ended up focusing on is the LG C8 OLED you mentioned. The only problem I see with it is "burn in" risk - quite a few people complain about this under the product reviews on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079TSV11D/?c ... dp_it&th=1

At this point I'm wondering whether that is a reason not to buy this TV. It would come with a COSTCO warranty (we would buy w/a COSTCO card), so perhaps that mitigates the risk, given COSCO's return policy?
We've had an OLED for more than two years, no burn-in.

Burn in is much more likely if you run a static image (e.g., if you watch the same channel with a logo, particularly if it's bright), and if you run the TV at a high brightness setting (which is why you should use the Cinema/Movie setting instead). Rtings.com tested this and they were able to get burn-in, but only under quite extreme conditions that are very easy to avoid. The C8 has some add'l features to prevent burn-in, such as detecting static logos and reducing their brightness.
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Small Law Survivor
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by Small Law Survivor »

Thank you all, this has been very helpful to me.

Small Law Survivor (OP)
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by midareff »

Biggest Samsung you can fit in the space you have for TV. Then pick the grade of that TV by your budget. Had a Sony projector at one time and it was with me so long it was time to either adopt it or send it to college.. LOL. It's most endearing quality was a built in ON and OFF timer so it was my alarm clock for many, many years. On was get out of bed and OFF was you need to be out the door to work. Had one repair for about $80 in about 16 or 17 years. Swapped it for the labor to assemble a new TV /equipment stand about 7 years ago when I retired and bought a 55" Samsung, as the biggest I could fit in that spot. A few months later bought another 55" for the living room and sold a 42" Panny I had won as a prize in that room. Seven years later both are still perfect, no repairs.
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ram
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by ram »

https://www.costco.com/Samsung-75%22-Cl ... 12573.html

I have ordered this 75" TV but not yet received it.
99.9% of the time only 1 or 2 people see the TV from sitting in front of it (not an angle) in our house.
For about 1600 I could get a 55" OLED or a 75" LCD TV.
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Re: New TV Recommendations Please?

Post by randomguy »

inbox788 wrote: Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:14 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:48 pmThe cost matters, but not as much as it did 10 years ago.

I agree that OP, since they haven’t upgraded in many years, probably doesn’t care.

I care about video and audio, in the same way that some people spend a lot on fine Scotch or wine. It’s all lighter fluid to me, and I prefer water or iced tea.

On the blindfold test, I’ll take that bet. In fairness, even a half deaf person could distinguish electrostatic speakers (even hybrids) from dynamic speakers blindfolded.
Cost matter much, much less than 10 years ago. I saw a number of deals under $300 on 50-60" TVs that I would have purchased if I needed to. Few deals below $200, unless you went very small or very cheap and for 60"+, the price jumps to $500+, which should also be considered if that's within one's budget and size requirements.

OP, I'm guessing contrast is a big part of your problem and this 2011 review shows contrast ratio 2500:1.
https://uk.pcmag.com/tvs/5916/toshiba-regza-46xv545u
I pulled a random more recent TV and it quotes contrast ratio of 25,000:1.
https://www.pcmag.com/review/355260/vizio-d43-e2

Specs aren't everything, and you should certainly test out the tv, but I recall having an old set > 10 years ago with contrast 600:1 or 800:1, but I remember watching CSI Miami and the colors, especially the greens still really popped.

I'm guessing almost any modern tv will be a big improvement over what you currently have from over 10 years ago. You can try to catch one of these BF specials and be done fairly cheap, or spend a little more (time and money) and maybe need to upgrade your cabinet to hold a 65" or 85" QLED or OLED.
Contrast ratios (and refresh rates) on LED are sort of made up numbers. No LED tv has a true 25k:1 contrast ratio. Go to someone like RTing.com that tests tvs under somewhat standard conditions and you will see most panels in the 5k:1 type range. That is still probably about a 5x+ improvement over mid 2000 tech (400-800 was somewhat standard) and pretty noticeable.

Burn in happens on OLEDs. It isn't a huge deal for most people. Don't use them to display static images (i.e. menus) for hours at a time and you will be fine.

Now that the budget was increased by 500% (i.e. went in looking to buy a civic, now is looking at porsches:)) then yeah LG OLED is pretty much the no brainer. The high end Samsungs cost as much as the OLEDs (well in the under 70" space) and while the pictures are really nice they are only better in some niche applications (tend to be brighter so some HDR scenes look better) and by a pretty marginal amount.
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