New Crossover Confusion.....

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Brokepilot
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New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Brokepilot » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm

My wife and I need a new car because we have one 15-year-old car and we have a baby on the way. We live in the Pacific Northwest and need AWD and want a crossover for the room to hual diapers from Costco.

Anyways I am torn between three crossovers..

2018 RAV4 Adventure with winter and power premium package. MSRP 33300 negotiated down to 27000 + Fees.
2018 CX-5 Touring with preferred package. MSRP 31000 got the price down to 28600 + Fees.
2019 All new RAV (Hybrid). Who knows the cost....

My wife requires that if we get a new car it must have heated seats and unfortunately, they aren't standard in lower trims yets and I dont do dealer instaled options. I wanted the Hybrid Rav4 but to get heated seats I will have to get a high trim version and however the Adventure has what we need at a lower cost. However, I am torn over fact that this vehicle was released in 2013 and the new generation is about to release. I don't like buying the EOL old tech as I feel I am overpaying unless I get a steal of a deal. The new RAV4 looks great, has an all-new powertrain and chassis which is good minus the first year bugs.

Now the CX-5 has been recently updated, has a great interior, rides great... hands down its better and more modern than the 18 RAV4 but it's going to cost more. The additional 1600 puts me over my targeted monthly as my downpayment isn't as large as Id like. My budget is super tight and the wife doesn't work as we just moved and now shes pregnant, so there is no plan for our income to expand. I am military and dont have time for a side hustle

Here is the where the pre-buyers remorse kicks in. We will have this car for 10+ years so we better like it.. Who cares about $1600 more dollars we are going to live in this vehicle for a decade. Crap a decade it better me reliable... better be a Toyota... Better be as modern tech as possible as well.

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Alexa9
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Alexa9 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My wife and I need a new car
Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My budget is super tight
You need a used car!

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fortfun
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by fortfun » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:42 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:35 pm
Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My wife and I need a new car
Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My budget is super tight
You need a used car!
+1. I'd try to figure out a way to keep your current vehicle until your budget isn't so tight. New cars are overrated (if your budget is tight). If you really need more space, buy a topper. A new car will come with expensive insurance, tags, registration, etc.
Last edited by fortfun on Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ResearchMed
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by ResearchMed » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:43 pm

Alexa9 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:35 pm
Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My wife and I need a new car
Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
My budget is super tight
You need a used car!
Think about getting some sort of CPO, low mileage/not too old.
You'll have most of what you'd get now (with current model), and someone else took the depreciation hit.

In some cases (Volvo, at least), if the car is relatively young, the CPO buyer gets a *longer* warranty/etc., that the original owner had.
We finally did this for the first time, with our XC60, about 3 years ago, and couldn't be happier.
The savings were surprising, once we looked at CPO, and we found one 1 yo with 10k m.
It was just about pristine, if you didn't look at the odometer.
In our case, there was going to be a new model coming out in about 2 years (it's out now), but since we've kept cars for quite some time (the other is a 2004 model, but now only backup use, due to improved safety features), that wasn't a problem.
So we may have saved a bit more, since it was well known that the totally new Volvo line was just making its debut that year with the XC90.

It might be worth looking at what you can find, and compare pricing.

RM
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Nate79
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Nate79 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:57 pm

Subaru Forester.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:17 pm

Subaru Crosstrek.

maroon
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by maroon » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:33 pm

Subaru Forester! There's possibly deals to be had on the 2018 non-turbo models.

pochax
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by pochax » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:31 pm

i would go CX-5. 2017 was the redesign year so if you can find a used model you might be able to save a little and still get the nicer interior and comfort/ride of the redesign. but even if you stick with going new, it is better than the 2018 RAV4 in almost every way. it has also proven to be reliable so no worries there. RAV4 price might drop even more when 2019's are available since it is brand new redesign as well.

disclaimer: i own a 2016 CX-5 and CX-9 and love both of those cars. but i would trade up my 2016 CX-5 to a 2018 (or better yet a 2019 with the Turbo engine) in a heartbeat for the ventilated seats, rear vents, auto rear hatch, and Android Auto/Carplay. but i only have 46k miles and 3.5 years so can't justify it financially (yet).

stimulacra
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by stimulacra » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:48 pm

Get the new RAV4 if you want the new styling and novelty and can roll the dice on reliability.

I like the current revised CX-5.

The current gen Honda CRV looks good as well. The 1.5 engines have been having some reported issues (big thread here about it) but the base engine in the LX is a carryover engine and should be more reliable.

Subaru Forrester is a good option. The outgoing model as well as the all new 2019.

For your same budget you could probably also get an off-lease Audi Q5, BMW X3, Mercedes GLC, or Lexus RX.

Also on the Korean side, the Hyundai Tuscon or Santa Fe are pretty competitive offerings that stack up well against Japanese crossovers.

Lot of great options to haul diapers from Costco to your home.

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beyou
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by beyou » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:06 am

I will add to the crowd regarding Subaru Forester. Deceptively spacious, comfortable vehicle. Heated for both front seats, side mirrors.

As to the hybrid vs gas issue, how much and where so you drive ? If mostly highway commuting, not worth getting a hybrid. My Forester gets 30+ mpg on the highway (I have gotten close to 40 when I drive 55 with no traffic). Forester or any gas engine loses out for local, low speed trips. But those local trip have to be the majority of your driving to make a hybrid worthy of consideration.

Note it would seem to be less negotiable to get an AWD during the winter, unless you negotiate for the older model they are trying to get rid of, and be flexible on options.

typical.investor
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by typical.investor » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:41 am

Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm

2018 CX-5 Touring with preferred package. MSRP 31000 got the price down to 28600 + Fees.
Ditch the preferred package. You don't need it for heated seats.

If you need the moonroof, go for the CX-3. Do you really need the bigger vehicle?

wilked
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by wilked » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:02 am

Based off what you wrote, no brainer - Subaru Forester

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whr19606
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by whr19606 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:26 am

Subaru Forester or CrossTrek.

Morgan Dollar 1921
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Morgan Dollar 1921 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:37 am

Buy what you want, but you owe it to yourself to test drive a Subaru, you pick the model. Maybe a late model used Outback. Yes, I agree that avoiding the depreciation is a good idea, but that also depends on WHO depreciated it. Talk to a good line tech or two, and a sharp parts guy, they will tell you that you need to be very careful with used. Certified is more gross profit to the OEM & the dealer but you get some piece of mind. Extended warranties are nothing more than mechanical breakdown insurance products the the aftermarket ones, (non-OEM sponsered) opening up POST claim underwriting in many cases & surrender of decision of repair options, included technician choice and using LKQ / aftermarket parts. Yes, I have a different point of view in some cases, but the market is full of "landmines", being military I am sure you comprehend that. BTW, thank you for your dedication & service! Questions?

mmmodem
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by mmmodem » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:48 am

You should look at Edmunds.com and look at their True Cost to Own (TCO) calculator. There is more to owning a vehicle than just purchase price, like insurance, maintenance, and repairs.

A 2018 Rav4 Advenrure has a TCO of $35k
A Mazda CX5 touring has a TCO of $37k
A 2018 Rav4 SE Hybrid has a TCO of $38k

There's no TCO for the 2019 Rav4 but the 2018 will be a reasonable estimate. I'm with you on buying the most modern car. I almost always purchase 1st model year vehicles. I have not seen any credible studies on 1st year models being super unreliable versus later model years. I believe having the latest safety technology outweigh any potential bugs which are mostly fixed under warranty.

It's unfortunate people still speak of highway driving negating fuel savings of a hybrids. There's also people still saying driving low annual miles negates fuel savings of a hybrid. None of that matters. The only thing that matters is total mileage you intend to put on the vehicle over your ownership. If you're keeping it 10 years, you will most likely save money over the regular model especially with gas at $3 a gallon.

It's regular 26 mpg vs hybrid 32 mpg. At $3 gasoline it's over $2000 savings at 100k miles. And that doesn't include savings on brakes that don't need be changed as often due to regenerative brakes and no belts or chains that need tightening or transmissions to maintain.

TL;DR, get the 2018 Rav4 hybrid. Can't swing the extra payments? Delay buying the vehicle by the number of months it takes to save up the difference. Assuming it's a $3000 delta as I have above and your monthly budget is $500. Then wait 6 months. That's about when you can get a good discount on a 2019 Rav4 hybrid anyway. Your wife needs the new CUV for the baby. Well, baby is not here yet. Take that time to save up.

lostdog
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by lostdog » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:10 am

Consider a USED Subaru Forester.

Colorado13
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Colorado13 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:13 am

Have you driven these vehicles? I ask because I was set on buying the Mazda CX-5 due to good reviews from friends and Consumer Reports, etc. Then I drove one (multiple times.) It was fun to drive, but I thought the seats were as hard as a rock, so found it very uncomfortable. YMMV, obviously. It's a great looking car but the rock hard seats made it a no go for me.

Whatever you decide, a pre-owned 2017 model may be the way to go, given your budget.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:14 am

mmmodem wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:48 am

It's unfortunate people still speak of highway driving negating fuel savings of a hybrids.
This all depends. If you drive a majority of miles on the highway at the speed limit (as opposed to in stop and go), look at the highway mpg and look for real world comparisons in Consumer Reports. While first glance might say that dragging around an extra 1000 pound of batteries at 60 mph can't help, other things also matter. Is the gearing the same? First hand experience with Subaru Crosstreks shows that the CVT with it's high gearing comes in with much better MPG than the same car with a low geared manual transmission. It's not hard to find comparisons of MPG for most any car.
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Colorado13
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Colorado13 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:15 am

whr19606 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:26 am
Subaru Forester or CrossTrek.

+1 for pre-owned

onourway
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by onourway » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:53 am

An alternative option.

I had a Chevy Traverse recently as a rental. I would never, in a million years, think I would like a Chevy, but this is a nice car.

The cloth seats are probably the best I’ve even sat in short of a Volvo. They are really really good. In fact, the entire driving position is excellent, great ergonomics and better than usual handling from a vehicle of this class. The 1.5l Turbo motor is plenty peppy, and I averaged over 32mpg in the FWD version. The stereo, even on this relative base model, is excellent.

Overall the styling is acceptable for a Chevy although not entirely up my alley. I actually could imagine owning this vehicle and prefer it to any recent RAV4 and possibly even a Subaru.

Chevy overall reliability is much closer to Toyota than Subaru in recent years.

researcher
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by researcher » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:50 am

mmmodem wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:48 am
It's unfortunate people still speak of highway driving negating fuel savings of a hybrids. There's also people still saying driving low annual miles negates fuel savings of a hybrid. None of that matters. The only thing that matters is total mileage you intend to put on the vehicle over your ownership. If you're keeping it 10 years, you will most likely save money over the regular model especially with gas at $3 a gallon.

It's regular 26 mpg vs hybrid 32 mpg. At $3 gasoline it's over $2000 savings at 100k miles. And that doesn't include savings on brakes that don't need be changed as often due to regenerative brakes and no belts or chains that need tightening or transmissions to maintain.
There are several incorrect conclusions here...

First, highway driving DOES negate fuel savings of a hybrid.
The standard Rav4 gets 30 MPG highway. The hybrid model gets 30 MPG highway. Highway fuel savings are completely negated.

Secondly, low annual driving DOES minimize the fuel savings of a hybrid.
If you only drive say 4000 miles/year, it will take a very long time to see the payback from a hybrid.

Thirdly, you quoted the EPA combined rating when doing your calculations (26 MPG vs. 32 MPG).
This is a weighted average of 55% city and 45% highway, which is meaningless unless your driving matches this.

My personal driving is 30% city, 70% highway, yielding a combined rating of 28 MPG for the standard Rav4 and 31 MPG for the hybrid.
At $2.75/gal and driving 100K miles, the hybrid gas savings is ~$1000.
However, the hybrid costs $2000 more upfront to purchase.

Rupert
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Rupert » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:20 am

There are great deals to be had on the 2018 Rav4s right now because dealers are trying to move them to make room for the redesigned 2019 models on their lots. Toyota is offering 0% financing for 48 months or $2500 cash back. It's a great deal on a reliable car that will last you 10 years easily. You're going to pay sticker or near sticker if you wait for the 2019 model. You're going to have to go used if you want a Subaru with comparable features at a comparable price. People like the Mazda, but it has been my experience that Mazda still isn't anywhere near Toyota in terms of reliability. (I had a very bad experience with Mazda in the not-too-distant past). And Mazda interiors don't hold up as well. Too many squeaks and rattles to count after 4 years of use in my case.

bloom2708
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by bloom2708 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:25 am

One income, tight budget, low down payment, kid on the way. These do not scream "new car time" to me.

New and exciting ways to spend money are coming with your first child. This is not the time to double-down and buy a new $30k car. I don't care what kind it is.

You can get really nice, barely used cars for under $15k. Get something with 30k to 50k miles. Maybe an AWD Ford Escape with the higher trim package. I know there are good deals on 2-3 year old ones out there. I would look private party first.
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researcher
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by researcher » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:10 am

Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
Anyways I am torn between three crossovers..
2018 RAV4 Adventure with winter and power premium package. MSRP 33300 negotiated down to 27000 + Fees.
2018 CX-5 Touring with preferred package. MSRP 31000 got the price down to 28600 + Fees.
2019 All new RAV (Hybrid). Who knows the cost....
Given your situation, I would not purchase a new car.

However, of the three, the CX-5 is the obvious choice.
Although the price you quoted for a Touring with Preferred is too much. Is this an AWD model?

robphoto
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by robphoto » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:45 am

Really, I'm with the "don't buy new" people.

If a difference of 1600. in the total ($30. a month?) puts you over budget, you're not giving yourself enough slack for unexpected expenses.

Do you have a solid emergency fund saved? Of course this board is thick with frugal people, and we didn't get a new car till I was nearly 40. (very basic Dodge Caravan-- can you even get a car with manual windows now?)

Living Free
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by Living Free » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:07 pm

Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm


My wife requires that if we get a new car it must have heated seats and unfortunately, they aren't standard in lower trims


Here is the where the pre-buyers remorse kicks in. We will have this car for 10+ years so we better like it.. Who cares about $1600 more dollars we are going to live in this vehicle for a decade. Crap a decade it better me reliable... better be a Toyota... Better be as modern tech as possible as well.
I'd like to point out that you can buy an aftermarket seat heater for less than $30 online. I got one this season and it is not quite as warm as the heated seats on my wife's car but it's fairly warm and hard to argue with that price.

I also agree you should buy a used car. I can find dealer prices online for a used subaru forester for like $15k for a year 2014-2015 within 200 miles of me. several of them. 60,000 or fewer miles. Why not do that? A used base model CRV off lease (so 2015) can be had for similar price (maybe even a bit less) with all wheel drive. Then you'll just need those aftermarket seat heaters for the wife :)

iamlucky13
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Re: New Crossover Confusion.....

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:08 pm

Brokepilot wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:29 pm
I don't like buying the EOL old tech as I feel I am overpaying unless I get a steal of a deal. The new RAV4 looks great, has an all-new powertrain and chassis which is good minus the first year bugs.
What specific end-of-life "old tech" are you concerned about?

I honestly don't think you should be worried about it. Whatever you get will likely most of the available improvements over your existing car, and aside from convenience features like smart phone integration, most of it is going to be incremental improvements anyways.

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