2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

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Monica
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2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Monica » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:21 pm

Currently have a 2011 Ford Fusion with 82,000 miles. This is a high mileage car for us, usually keeping a car around five years due to my husband not wanting to deal with car repairs. We are now in the market for a new SUV. Earlier this year was waiting for the new Foresters but not sure about the Stop/Start feature of this vehicle. I know it's a recently released new model design for the Forester but any thoughts about this model good or bad? Was also thinking of the new Rav4 but Toyota not releasing information about this vehicle until November 20th. Was thinking of buying the vehicle in the next month so we can drive it when going to Florida for a month this winter but now don't know if we could get a good deal on a 2019 Rav4 the first month it comes out. Thinking of keeping the Ford Fusion until we return from Florida. The Fusion is not giving us any trouble but don't know if we should worry about the timing belt/chain with this mileage.

Due to this forum know to stay away from the Honda CRV for now. Would consider the Honda non-turbo CRV except for lack of safety features and Apple play due to the base model.

Want to try to keep our next vehicle for 10 years or more.

Thanks for comments from fellow bogleheads with experience with these cars.

stimulacra
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by stimulacra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:01 am

Seems like the 2019 Forester is an incremental evolution of a winning formula; great greenhouse visibility, sensible design and layout for a crossover, etc… 

I don't really know anything about the upcoming RAV4 other than the styling is really going for a baby-4runner look. Stylistically the nameplate seems to experience the most whiplash as Toyota oscillates between various design languages between mass-market updates.

Not even sure if the new 2019 RAV4's are even at dealer lots yet. I would be curious what they say.

I'm curious why you are only considering two all-new models as your next vehicle?

From a bogleheads perspective, I would almost be more inclined to pick up an example of the outgoing model of either the Forester or the RAV4 since you'll have a chassis and powertrain that has 4-5 years to be sorted out and you're more likely to get a decent deal or discounts and all of the reliability issues or quirks will be well known on the message boards/forums.

You have a better shot of 10-years of trouble free maintenance with the outgoing 2018 version of the Forester or RAV4 than with the all-new 2019's.

Also the Mazda CX-5 is competitive within the compact crossover class.

BanquetBeer
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by BanquetBeer » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:43 am

If you can get a good deal on 2018 I agree there. Do you need AWD?

Rupert
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Rupert » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:38 am

People have been waiting so long for the new RAV4 that I bet there will be no deals to be had for the first year of production. You'll likely be paying sticker or near sticker if you want one. That said, all Subarus are AWD. If you don't need AWD, why pay the higher maintenance costs of AWD? (The costs aren't a great deal higher, but why pay for it if you don't need it?).
Last edited by Rupert on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FlyAF
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by FlyAF » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:51 am

Why would you willing get rid of a car w/ only 80k miles on it that you admit has given you no problems? Timing belt/chain is a regular maintenance item. Schedule it to be performed and keep 30 grand in your pocket. Unless you just have to have the latest cookie cutter SUV?

runner3081
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by runner3081 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:53 am

Monica wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:21 pm
Currently have a 2011 Ford Fusion with 82,000 miles. This is a high mileage car for us, usually keeping a car around five years due to my husband not wanting to deal with car repairs.
....
Want to try to keep our next vehicle for 10 years or more.
This part doesn't make sense. Probably better to plan on only keeping the new car for 5ish years.

Could also expand to Kia/Hyundai. You will have a 5 year bumper to bumper and 10-year power train warranty with them.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by UpperNwGuy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:05 am

Ford Escape is another possibility. It will have a complete update for the 2020 model year, so the 2019 should be reliable. It offers more than one engine, and it doesn't have a CVT.

ssquared87
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by ssquared87 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:19 am

5 years and 80k miles isn’t much for a modern car. Spending $25-35k to replace something that is working well and meets you needs is not only financially wasteful but it’s not good for the environment. The energy and materials used to build a car put out more emissions than the car will put out over 20 years of use.

shunkman
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by shunkman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 am

My primary driver is a 2008 Rav4 that I bought new. It now has over 130,000 mostly trouble free miles on the clock. The 2019 Rav4 looks tempting. The safety improvements over the past 10 years are pushing me to seriously consider this. When buying used, you likely will not get the latest safety features.

Topic Author
Monica
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Monica » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:40 am

Thanks for all the reply's and opinions. Some updated information.

I already told my sister that when we purchase a new vehicle I would give her the Fusion. She could really use the car as hers is falling apart. I feel bad backtracking on this if I hold on to this car. I might have her wait until February when we return from Florida. Her car is functional but barely, she has a 2006 Dodge Caliber that is a money pit.

As far as only keeping a car 5-6 years, that was my husband. I'm the more fugile one in this relationship but he is coming around with keeping cars longer. With both of us retired we now only have one vehicle.

I'm the guilty one with waiting until the new model designs came out. Probably not my best idea. There are no more 2018 Foresters in my area and was waiting due to the better safety and smartphone adaptive features on the newer cars. My husband has MCI and this will probably progress with time. I'm starting to do more of the driving and with both of us in the retirement age bracket I like the improved saftey features.

I have looked at the Mazda CX5 and have not ruled that out.

I agree about the Rav4. Not sure when it will arrive at the car lots and agree about them staying close to the sticker price initially. My husband is the one leaning towards the Rav4. I like the Subaru but we are not sure about the Stop/Start function. I realize this has been around for a few years but not with the Forester. Would like some input about that option.

tomd37
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by tomd37 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:54 am

It is my understanding the start/stop function on Subaru vehicles can be turned off once the vehicle is started, but will revert back when the vehicle is turned off. Then it can be turned off again when restarted.

I am in the market for a new vehicle and looking at the Subaru Outback with six cylinders. At the age of 81 visibility from the inside is very important to me and Consumer Reports magazine rated the Subaru Forester and Outback as numbers 1 and 2 in that category in an article "Best Cars for Seniors" several months ago.
Tom D.

Jack FFR1846
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:59 am

Your Fusion has a timing chain, whether the 2.3L 4 cyl or the 6. These cars go forever with some caveats. Check or replace the hard lines for power steering and for automatic transmission cooling (transmission to radiator) as they rust out just like large GM truck brake lines do and will fail. The transmission lines are about $100 aftermarket and fail so often that my local NAPA had them in stock. About an hour including diagnosis and installation for me to do myself.

The 19 Forester uses a direct injection engine. To me, that's a tough one to swallow and I've thus far avoided DI engines. I've seen first hand the intake valves of a 10k mile Subaru WRX, which is DI and they looked like the exhaust valves of a 150k mile Ford 302. (taking from direct experience). I know some Toyotas have direct with port injection to clean the valves. Subaru doesn't so far. I don't know who else does. I think if I were going to consider a DI car without port injection as well, I'd install a water injection kit in the intake.

Make your own decision. Note that all Subaru extended warranties can be purchased from any dealer up to the end of the bumper to bumper warranty. I've found Mastria Subaru in Mass to beat everyone and will send you a matrix of coverages and costs simply by asking.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Topic Author
Monica
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Monica » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:20 am

Jack FFR1846 Good information. Thank you

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Gort
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Gort » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:32 am

Rupert wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:38 am
People have been waiting so long for the new RAV4 that I bet there will be no deals to be had for the first year of production. You'll likely be paying sticker or near sticker if you want one. That said, all Subarus are AWD. If you don't need AWD, why pay the higher maintenance costs of AWD? (The costs aren't a great deal higher, but why pay for it if you don't need it?).
Subaru BRZ is RWD.

ponyboy
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by ponyboy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:09 pm

At 80,000 miles...the car is finally broke in. Thats low mileage imo. It always baffles me that people are willing to get rid of a car for no other reason than they do not want to take it to the shop for repairs. They'd rather drop $25k+ vs $1000. Now, if money isnt an issue and you're paying cash without it impacting any part of your life...by all means, go for it.

My 2008 corolla just rolled past 162,000 miles. Im hoping to see 300,000 before I have to get rid of it.

In all seriousness though. If you're looking to dump a car every couple years then it may be a good idea to lease (depending on how many miles you drive.)

sawdust60
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by sawdust60 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:28 pm

I don't want start/stop or cylinder shut-off. And I do not want a sunroof.

If you're considering Mazda, the 2018 Mazda3 Touring edition comes with a 2.5 liter engine, leatherette seats, aluminum wheels and with various rebates and discounts, it is $17k-$18k plus tax. Mazda3 has decent ingress/egress and good A/C, and you don't have to get the base model to get one without a sunroof. Back seat legroom is limited, depending on front seat position. Too many cars have gotten bigger. For Mazda3, its size is right for us. Forester, Crosstrek, CR-V, RDX and RX350 were also on my list. At this price, I can drive it a few years and shop again. No regrets.

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Watty
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Watty » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Be sure to check on the details of the new automatic safety features. Toyota has made them standard equipment but the last time I looked they were still optional on some Subaru models. I don't know about the 2019.
Monica wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:21 pm
Currently have a 2011 Ford Fusion with 82,000 miles.
As others have said 82k miles is not a lot but the car is 8 model years older than the 2019 you are looking at replacing it with. There have been threads about if it makes sense to get a newer car just for the safety advancement since they have added a lot of advanced safely features as well as improved the crash tests results a lot too. There is not a consensus but a lot of people have bought the new models mainly for the improved safety of the new models.

If you are going to be replacing the cars every five years then take a hard look at how they depreciate. I did not look at the Fusion but I would suspect that it as depreciated a lot more than a similar Toyota or Subaru would have. The Rav4 is a special case because of the problems it has had but if you are going to sell the car in five years then you should research which one will have the highest expected resale price then.

randomguy
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:16 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:58 pm
The Rav4 is a special case because of the problems it has had but if you are going to sell the car in five years then you should research which one will have the highest expected resale price then.
Depreciation is measured from MSRP. That is a useless number. If i buy a 48k car for 36k that is worth 24k in 3 years, depreciayion is 50%. That is pretty high. But my depreciation is 33%, thats pretty low. You want to minimize ownership costs not maximize resale. They are only loosely related

Murgatroyd
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Murgatroyd » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:18 pm

The Hyundai Santa Fe is a beautiful vehicle. Drove a 2016 recently and was very impressed. And can’t beat their warrantee

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:25 pm

runner3081 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:53 am
Monica wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:21 pm
Currently have a 2011 Ford Fusion with 82,000 miles. This is a high mileage car for us, usually keeping a car around five years due to my husband not wanting to deal with car repairs.
....
Want to try to keep our next vehicle for 10 years or more.
This part doesn't make sense. Probably better to plan on only keeping the new car for 5ish years.

Could also expand to Kia/Hyundai. You will have a 5 year bumper to bumper and 10-year power train warranty with them.
82,000 is not high mileage. You're vehicle will likely easily service you for another 5 years with zero issues other than oil changes, tires, brakes (standard maintenance items).

Topic Author
Monica
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Monica » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:54 pm

We have decided to keep researching but will wait till after we return from Florida to seriously look to buy. We have not just researched but have test driven most of these vehicles over the past few months. Subaru both Forester and Outback, Mazda CX-5, Honda CRV and HRV, GMC Terrain. We’ve owned many Camrys in the past and myself two Honda Civics. My last Civic I kept for 10 years with no issues and we bought a Toyota Echo the first year it came out and kept that for 10 years. So I guess the 5-6 year rule for trade ins was for the family car mostly and not the smaller second car.

Watty, what problems have the RAV4 had in the past?

We are no longer trading cars in every fives years. My husband has softened his stance on this subject.

The Honda reliability thread is a good read. Love this forum for all the different topics. Always learning new information.

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Watty
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Watty » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:39 pm

Monica wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:54 pm
Watty, what problems have the RAV4 had in the past?
Sorry, I got the RAV4 mixed up with the CRV in this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=244271&start=50

FinTruth
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by FinTruth » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:39 am

I was making the same decision. Drove the cx5 as well, which was fantastic, but felt small inside to me.

I was waiting for the new rav4 since it was announced last year, and was pretty convinced that is what I was going to buy since I usually buy Honda's and Toyotas. I test drove the Rav4, and the road noise on the expressway was horrible! I was very surprised, louder than my 10+ year old CRV.

I test drove the Forester. It was quiet, had Android auto, and was very comfortable. I ordered one from the factory. Hope reliability is good, I think it will be.

Bully3000
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Bully3000 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:58 am

I had a Forester and the reason I purchased Subaru was because they were known for reliability and I wanted a car to last along time and not pay a lot for repairs, it barely lasted 5 years, had transmission issues and steering column issues, even fixed under warranty it never worked well again and I was forced to make an emergency trade in and take on a new car payment I didn't want.

I used a local mechanic to help me fight with Subaru on honoring the warranty and recall issues and he told me Subaru used to be good but quality is lacking these days and if you want reliable you can never go wrong with Toyota.

I had a Toyota Carina back when I lived In Europe and it was a tank and refused to die, I never changed oil and never had to do a single repair, it was also involved in 2 accidents(both other driver) and only damage was ever cosmetic, the only reason i got rid of it was because I was moving to the US and
since the thing was about 15 years old and looked like a piece of crap no one wanted to buy it so i ended up scrapping it.

Also Subaru generally are very very basic inside and lacking a lot of features.

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msi
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by msi » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:36 am

Bully3000 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:58 am
I had a Forester and the reason I purchased Subaru was because they were known for reliability and I wanted a car to last along time and not pay a lot for repairs, it barely lasted 5 years, had transmission issues and steering column issues, even fixed under warranty it never worked well again and I was forced to make an emergency trade in and take on a new car payment I didn't want.

I used a local mechanic to help me fight with Subaru on honoring the warranty and recall issues and he told me Subaru used to be good but quality is lacking these days and if you want reliable you can never go wrong with Toyota.

I had a Toyota Carina back when I lived In Europe and it was a tank and refused to die, I never changed oil and never had to do a single repair, it was also involved in 2 accidents(both other driver) and only damage was ever cosmetic, the only reason i got rid of it was because I was moving to the US and
since the thing was about 15 years old and looked like a piece of crap no one wanted to buy it so i ended up scrapping it.

Also Subaru generally are very very basic inside and lacking a lot of features.
Sorry to hear that. What year was your Forester?

pierremonfrere
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by pierremonfrere » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:55 am

I just boight a 2019 Outback. It's only been like 200 miles, but I love it. I prefer the Outback over the Forester for comfort, but Forester did have better visibility.

The 2019 Forester has a completely different feel on the inside compared to 2018, so I wouldn't even consider an older model if I were you.

dbr
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by dbr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:55 am

Bully3000 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:58 am

Also Subaru generally are very very basic inside and lacking a lot of features.
I would suggest a prospective car buyer go look for themselves before accepting this statement. It could be a matter of personal preference and it could be a matter of trim level and it could be a matter of what generation vehicles one is talking about.

dbr
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by dbr » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:56 am

pierremonfrere wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:55 am
I just boight a 2019 Outback. It's only been like 200 miles, but I love it. I prefer the Outback over the Forester for comfort, but Forester did have better visibility.
I believe this is an accurate assessment.

Bully3000
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Bully3000 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:27 pm

msi wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:36 am
Bully3000 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:58 am
I had a Forester and the reason I purchased Subaru was because they were known for reliability and I wanted a car to last along time and not pay a lot for repairs, it barely lasted 5 years, had transmission issues and steering column issues, even fixed under warranty it never worked well again and I was forced to make an emergency trade in and take on a new car payment I didn't want.

I used a local mechanic to help me fight with Subaru on honoring the warranty and recall issues and he told me Subaru used to be good but quality is lacking these days and if you want reliable you can never go wrong with Toyota.

I had a Toyota Carina back when I lived In Europe and it was a tank and refused to die, I never changed oil and never had to do a single repair, it was also involved in 2 accidents(both other driver) and only damage was ever cosmetic, the only reason i got rid of it was because I was moving to the US and
since the thing was about 15 years old and looked like a piece of crap no one wanted to buy it so i ended up scrapping it.

Also Subaru generally are very very basic inside and lacking a lot of features.
Sorry to hear that. What year was your Forester?
Was a 2014. Glad to see the back of that thing.

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by lazydavid » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:00 pm

sawdust60 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:28 pm
I don't want start/stop or cylinder shut-off. And I do not want a sunroof.

If you're considering Mazda, the 2018 Mazda3 Touring edition...
Mazda3 has had auto start/stop for the past eleven years (introduced in 2008). If you refuse to own a vehicle with this feature, you will be buying increasingly older and older cars.

ponyboy
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by ponyboy » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:43 pm

If you buy a subaru, just remember that the head gasket will fail eventually. They could never get those right. Expensive repair too.

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beyou
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by beyou » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:47 pm

I had a 2000 Outback that I replaced with a 2012 Outback. Both have been reliable.
I also have a 2014 and 2015 Forester, both have been reliable.

That said, I am always suspicious when a car is fully re-designed and don't want to be first.

MoDosh
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by MoDosh » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:24 pm

Long time Subaru owner here and I always call our Subarus tractors as they do drive a lot like tractors :-) Although the one we just purchased with a ton of miles on handles like a dream! There is something quirky and cool about them - except if you live where there is lots of snow and everybody drives one.

No issues with the cylinder head anymore. Toyota reliability? True but I also had a friend who’s new highlander’s engine blew up, it was brand new but luckily leased. A family member has a Toyota - struts need to be replaced, engine leaks oil so as they say your mileage may vary but yes Toyotas are reliable spastically.


Comparisons ? I like Alex on autos YouTube channel
Of course look at consumer reports On Subarus reliability.
I believe they have a new four cylinder turbo engine, perhaps a couple of years old? I don’t like the 4cyl engines yes sure fuel economy but the six-cylinder is so much better and with highway cruising and up and down the mountain passes etc.

I’m pretty new to personal-finance sad face but why are you buying a new car - wasting money :-) if you worried about reliability get a used CPO version. Then again I always say if someone has assets in the value of a couple more zeros on the end of what most people have buying a new car is like paying 400 or $4000! You could also look at safety, obviously some brands are safer than others and the new frontal offset crash seems to have thrown a lot of cars off safety rating wise.

HotRod140
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by HotRod140 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:36 pm

I have owned 2 Rav4 and 2 Subaru’s. Never had one issue with the Rav. Both Subby’s had Catalytic Convertor failures, Head Gasket issues. Surfice to say...Toyota all the way

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by Retired1809 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:05 pm

[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

(But may I suggest that you never buy a newly designed automobile in its first year of production? Wait at least a year until the kinks have been ironed out. And are you sure you want any vehicle with that irritating CVT feature? Take the car out for a drive and see what happens when you "gun" it after removing your foot from the brake pedal. Responsive it is not.)

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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:28 pm

I removed some off-topic comments. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters.
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Re: 2019 Subaru Forester Vs. 2019 Rav 4

Post by emanuel_v19 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:26 pm

Toyota owns 20-40% of Subaru. It's a personal choice.

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