Pull kids from school for vacations?

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kacang
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by kacang » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Our kids' (public) school discourages it and asks the parents to consider making a donation to make up for the loss in funding due to such absences.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:58 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:27 pm
Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:20 pm
Often, strict attendance policies are grounded in economics more than anything else. For example, in my state, funding to a particular school is directly dependent on daily student attendance.
Bingo. Public schools care because their funding is dependent on attendance rates. Those teachers care as it affects their pay eventually if they can't prevent low attendance rates. Private schools don't care if your kid even comes to school IF they do well on exams and get into a good college (both help in their recruiting endeavors).

In the end, the schools care about their OWN economics and how your kid affects it.

Good luck.
Interesting. Does the state actually reduce funding to schools based on absenses? Maybe there's the policy but do they have the authority to go through with it? Seems like it would be a bureaucratic headache and wouldn't actually happen

ddurrett896
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by ddurrett896 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:59 pm

I never missed a day of school 1st-5th grade and only a few times 6th-12th.

We do a family trip every October and my kids miss a week and next year a local cruise happens during May so they will miss another week.

Not a huge deal. The teacher send home a packet of material to complete so they stay with the class.

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TxAg
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by TxAg » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:05 pm

kacang wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Our kids' (public) school discourages it and asks the parents to consider making a donation to make up for the loss in funding due to such absences.
I totally believe it. It is ridiculous.

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celia
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by celia » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:12 pm

28fe6 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:00 pm
celia wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:25 pm
Kids are only in school for about 180 days a year, which is a little less than half of the days in the year. I'm sure you could schedule your vacation during the other 180+ days.
The counterpoint is that kids go to school 180 days per year, which is almost half of all days in the year. Is it really going to be a problem if they "only" go 170 days?
Ten days is 5.5% of the school year. Have you ever heard about being out of the stock market for only a few days and those happened to be the biggest growth days, so you would loose out on lots of growth?
Almost all big stock market gains and drops are concentrated in just a few trading days each year. Missing only a few days can have a dramatic impact on returns.
The report shows that if you were out of the market on the 20 biggest gains days over the last 20 years, you would only have had returns of 1.15%.
https://www.ifa.com/12steps/step4/missi ... worst_days

I will concede that you don't learn the same amount every school day. But how do you know one of those absence days won't be a big learning day? Are you a "school day timer" (as opposed to a "market timer")? How will you know when to send the child back to school? :happy

28fe6 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:45 pm
I don't have kids in school so please enlighten me. When people say schools don't "allow" absences, what exactly does that mean? Do they like fine you or something? What authority exactly do they have to say no?
I worked in the IT department of a school district and one of our databases contained the type of absence. Absences could be excused or unexcused depending on the note that was brought in. In California, excused absences are for:
* student's illness and other medical situations (appointments, quarantine, medical procedure, illness of the child of a student)
* funeral of immediate family member
* jury duty or precinct worker (approved in advance)
* required to be in court
* observance of religious holiday or ceremony
See www.nphs.org/news/pdf/AttendanceCAEDCode.pdf for full list.

Everything else is an unexcused absense. The consequences are summarized here starting with 3 days truant.
I would think the kid would remember the vacation time and bonding time with family far more than the school time. It shocks me that so many people think school at the elementary or secondary level would be more important than family time. I guess it goes to show how devalued the family has become.
Everyday can/should have some family time. But it's not every day that you can learn the material that will be at OP's kids' school next January 24 (a random day he might be gone).
Last edited by celia on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Teague
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Teague » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:58 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:27 pm
Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:20 pm
Often, strict attendance policies are grounded in economics more than anything else. For example, in my state, funding to a particular school is directly dependent on daily student attendance.
Bingo. Public schools care because their funding is dependent on attendance rates. Those teachers care as it affects their pay eventually if they can't prevent low attendance rates. Private schools don't care if your kid even comes to school IF they do well on exams and get into a good college (both help in their recruiting endeavors).

In the end, the schools care about their OWN economics and how your kid affects it.

Good luck.
Interesting. Does the state actually reduce funding to schools based on absenses? Maybe there's the policy but do they have the authority to go through with it? Seems like it would be a bureaucratic headache and wouldn't actually happen
Yes, they do reduce funding for each day of absence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... 608ba8fe4a
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HIinvestor
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by HIinvestor » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:17 pm

We did it when the kids were younger but stopped after one trip when the elder was in 5th grade & we were going to SW national parks where S had a 2” stack of work (which he completed on the airplane) and ended up ahead of his class for two months after returning.

Soon thereafter, our kids were diagnosed with chronic illnesses and were missing a lot of school due to health issues. We have never regretted the travel we have done with our kids.

jerkstore
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by jerkstore » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:18 pm

Did it 5 times with 3 kids. All 1 week in Jan/Feb while they were in elementary school. No regrets...great times. Highly recommend. Just notified teachers in advance and took the school work with us. Kids did it on the flights. I would also reconsider if they struggled academically.

Currently the oldest is in 7th grade and the demands are such that we do not plan on taking them out of school this year.

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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by FrugalInvestor » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:20 pm
Often, strict attendance policies are grounded in economics more than anything else. For example, in my state, funding to a particular school is directly dependent on daily student attendance.
This is also my understanding as to why many districts have much stricter policies than was once the case.
IGNORE the noise! | Our life is frittered away by detail... simplify, simplify. - Henry David Thoreau

BrooklynInvest
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by BrooklynInvest » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:22 pm

I was pulled out of school for vacations when I was a kid. We'd visit the US from England and spend nearly two months traveling with our extended family.

When I was about 6 my mum took me to Cape Kennedy to see Apollo 15 launch. I'll remember that for the rest of my life. Not sure what I was supposed to be learning in class that day.

ThankYouJack
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:26 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:12 pm

Ten days is 5.5% of the school year. Have you ever heard about being out of the stock market for only a few days and those happened to be the biggest growth days, so you would loose out on lots of growth?
Almost all big stock market gains and drops are concentrated in just a few trading days each year. Missing only a few days can have a dramatic impact on returns.
The report shows that if you were out of the market on the 20 biggest gains days over the last 20 years, you would only have had returns of 1.15%.
https://www.ifa.com/12steps/step4/missi ... worst_days

I will concede that you don't learn the same amount every school day. But how do you know one of those absence days won't be a big learning day? Are you a "school day timer" (as opposed to a "market timer")? How will you know when to send the child back to school? :happy
My kids learn a bunch at home too - so we diversify ;)

mrsbetsy
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by mrsbetsy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:27 pm

Government schools do not own your child and you are in charge of them. Period. If you want to take your kids out to create some family memories, then it is your right to do so without second guessing your decision or feeling any guilt.

Colleges don't give a rip about what your kids grades were in elementary school.

Some of the best learning is through experiencing the world and life in general.

High school gets a little tougher so go now!

Mrs.Betsy

ThankYouJack
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by ThankYouJack » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:35 pm

Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 pm


Yes, they do reduce funding for each day of absence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... 608ba8fe4a
Traditionally, public schools are funded based on their total student enrollment. But California, Texas and some other states tie dollars to attendance instead, incentivizing schools to get as many students in their classrooms as possible.
So it seems like only a couple states tie dollars to attendance. I'm guessing my state isn't one of them, but may google it or ask teachers.

And I know a lot of states have policy that doesn't get enforced. So I wonder if CA and TX actually enforce it

chipperd
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by chipperd » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:49 pm

Do it. My wife and I both work in public schools. We have only done this a couple times to expose our three kids to special events on vacations (bare boat charter a couple times, hired a marine biologist for a day once) due to the dramatic cost savings going a bit earlier before that April break. School asked why and when we told them about being able to expose our kids to educational experiences not offered by the public schools, they were cool with the plan.

Teague
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Teague » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:39 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:35 pm
Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:14 pm


Yes, they do reduce funding for each day of absence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... 608ba8fe4a
Traditionally, public schools are funded based on their total student enrollment. But California, Texas and some other states tie dollars to attendance instead, incentivizing schools to get as many students in their classrooms as possible.
So it seems like only a couple states tie dollars to attendance. I'm guessing my state isn't one of them, but may google it or ask teachers.

And I know a lot of states have policy that doesn't get enforced. So I wonder if CA and TX actually enforce it
I am in CA and it is done. Not a matter of "enforcing" exactly - the school submits its attendance records to the state and funding is doled out based on that. Nothing to claw back, the money is simply doled out based on attendance. And the paperwork is of course audited. Additionally, there are in-person on-site inspections to make sure the reported numbers align with the "facts on the ground." My child's school had one of those inspections two weeks ago.
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gvsucavie03
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by gvsucavie03 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:45 pm

This is tough. Once-in-a-lifetime is one thing. I am a teacher in a college town and the University faculty's kids miss for the college spring break all the time. It is aggravating to see the same families doing it year after year, especially when the kids are younger. My vote is no, but as a parent it is your call on how important it is over school.

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rob
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by rob » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:56 pm

Have a couple of times over the years when the school uses extra snow days and we have committed to travel months before.... We just arrange for any missed work/exams...
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

Better2bWise
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Better2bWise » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:03 pm

Education is a concept that is not monopolized by any one body of instructors. Teachers are very adamant that only they can ensure that kids are educated well. Enrichment can only be offered by schools through field trips and summer trips which allow teachers to plan great breaks from standardized teaching.

I believe that parents teach essential aspects of life skills. Winter break, Spring break and Summer break are not the only time that parents can vacation. These are their kids that they entrust to the school systems to do their job. The government requires kids to be educated but I think it has gone too far if parents can't take their own children out of school for a reasonable amount of time while teachers provide school work for them to do while away.

School is not a job, kids must do their best, parents must support them, there is no perfect education system. The public schools in many parts of the country are failing. Parents must take part of the education of their children. Home schooling is legitimate and parents can teach the children while on vacation.

Personally, I went on many November vacations in elementary school. I do quite well in life. Trust me. Education is what the kids make of it, readying for college and most importantly they must want to learn and enjoy learning in college to succeed. Love of learning is the best gift parents can give to their kids. Teachers are being forced to shove standardized facts and I am hoping that they still have vision to instill a love of learning by curiosity and a hunger for knowledge and wisdom.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by gvsucavie03 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Better2bWise wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:03 pm
Education is a concept that is not monopolized by any one body of instructors. Teachers are very adamant that only they can ensure that kids are educated well. Enrichment can only be offered by schools through field trips and summer trips which allow teachers to plan great breaks from standardized teaching.

I believe that parents teach essential aspects of life skills. Winter break, Spring break and Summer break are not the only time that parents can vacation. These are their kids that they entrust to the school systems to do their job. The government requires kids to be educated but I think it has gone too far if parents can't take their own children out of school for a reasonable amount of time while teachers provide school work for them to do while away.

School is not a job, kids must do their best, parents must support them, there is no perfect education system. The public schools in many parts of the country are failing. Parents must take part of the education of their children. Home schooling is legitimate and parents can teach the children while on vacation.

Personally, I went on many November vacations in elementary school. I do quite well in life. Trust me. Education is what the kids make of it, readying for college and most importantly they must want to learn and enjoy learning in college to succeed. Love of learning is the best gift parents can give to their kids. Teachers are being forced to shove standardized facts and I am hoping that they still have vision to instill a love of learning by curiosity and a hunger for knowledge and wisdom.
This is quite overly dramatic.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:10 pm

I removed some off-topic posts on Page 1 regarding family values and teacher's unions (separate discussions).

Please stay on-topic, which is to help the OP decide whether or not to take the kids on vacation.
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staythecourse
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by staythecourse » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:24 pm

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:58 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:27 pm
Teague wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:20 pm
Often, strict attendance policies are grounded in economics more than anything else. For example, in my state, funding to a particular school is directly dependent on daily student attendance.
Bingo. Public schools care because their funding is dependent on attendance rates. Those teachers care as it affects their pay eventually if they can't prevent low attendance rates. Private schools don't care if your kid even comes to school IF they do well on exams and get into a good college (both help in their recruiting endeavors).

In the end, the schools care about their OWN economics and how your kid affects it.

Good luck.
Interesting. Does the state actually reduce funding to schools based on absenses? Maybe there's the policy but do they have the authority to go through with it? Seems like it would be a bureaucratic headache and wouldn't actually happen
Never cared enough to research it in our state, but do know it is true. Not sure if it is more about truancy or about $/ student allotment when it comes to funding the different school budgets. I know they do check at predetermined school days (at the least) to check what the enrollment data is for the school district.

I am pretty cynical and am pretty sure they don't care about truancy because of the kid's education so am pretty sure there are $$$ somehow involved.

Good luck.
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JeanMich
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by JeanMich » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:36 pm

As a retired elementary school teacher I never minded when my students left for an interesting vacation. They had a chance to learn many things that they would never get in the classroom. It was always easier on the top students than on the struggling students when they returned, but I tried to make the work they were responsible for relevant to the particular trip they took. I usually expected some sort of class presentation upon their return. I am sure that many teachers will disagree with me, but life is not only about the classroom and grades. Today being a world citizen is very important and traveling is one way to accomplish that. I remember one 4th grader who went with her parents on a mission to Africa for 2 months. She kept a journal, read some books, and gave a wonderful presentation upon her return. Her trip was an amazing learning experience for her and for the rest of the class as we communicated back and forth while she was away.

randomguy
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by randomguy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:41 pm

Erwin007 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:43 pm
123 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:41 pm
We have never and will not pull children from school for vacations. It detracts from the commitment to education and sends a message that vacation has a higher "family value" then education. The only time we have allowed an unexcused absence for a child was one day when a university under consideration had a "preview" day (on a weekday) for prospective students that we thought would be valuable.
Please. If going on a few vacations sends that message to your kids then you’ve got other issues.

My kids will always remember the weeks we spent in Hawaii and in Paris and the things they learned about history, and art, and language, and culture, but probably still have zero recollection of anything about Mesopotamia or topographic maps that they had to make up when we got back.

My children learn that education is important from us in plenty of other ways than us making sure they are in school the required 180 days per year.
So what you are saying is that by taking your kids on vacation they failed to learn about Mesopotamia and topographic maps because when they made up the work on their own, they didn't do as well as the teachers teaching the class would have done:). It is important to remember what the low bar is for being a straight A student. You can miss 5%+ of the info and still be one. Doesn't matter for a grade. It might matter latter when having conversations or need for a particular chunk of knowledge.

Now I am definitely being somewhat tongue and check but you do have to think about the messages you send kids. They learn more from your examples than by anything you say. I had a contractor who took his kids out of school for a week to go hunting and 3 wheeling. I am sure those kids will always remember those weeks. I do question if those kids were learning that going to school was important. You might value a week in paris over a week hunting but the message is the same.

srt7
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by srt7 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:41 pm

We definitely try not to but there are times we had to do it. Obviously, absences in Elementary were easier to deal with than in Secondary. But we always made sure the teacher and school knew about our plans weeks ahead so they could tell us about homework, classwork etc. Depending on how we put it to them, kids can take it in a positive way and love that they're being held responsible for their "work" (like an adult).
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Ron Ronnerson
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Ron Ronnerson » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:47 pm

I’m a teacher and work in a public school where most of the families are Asian. The kids, in general, are high-performing where I work. Many families often travel during Winter Break and Spring Break and some add on an extra week or two to their trips so the students end up missing days of school. I completely understand why they would do this and am fine with it. If they will miss five or more days, there is an Independent Study Contract put into place where the student works on assignments while away (and the school district receives money as long as the completed work is submitted on the first day back to school). It takes me time to prepare independent study packets but I have no problem with doing so. I’m glad the kids can get exposure to the concepts they’ll miss while away. I also understand that people can’t always take vacations whenever they want and working parents with different schedules and projects and deadlines do the best they can in their particular situation.

If a student is struggling in school, missed days can pose an issue. The student comes back, having missed instruction, and then takes tests over the material. They end up not doing well, their grade drops, their confidence suffers, and the trajectory gets worse. With relatively large class sizes and the day over-stuffed with things to accomplish, I do my best to catch up the kids who have missed days. Unfortunately, it isn’t always so simple. A quick example: I have a student who is having difficulty in math and his family pulled him out for only two days to go to Disneyland about a week ago. In order to prepare for an upcoming math test, we were doing the chapter review during both the days he missed. After he returned, I gave him a few extra days to get ready for the test. He's a nice kid who tried his best but he just didn't do well. I think that being present during the review would have made a difference for him.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by dodecahedron » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:56 pm

My daughters were homeschooled (unschooled, actually) for most of their precollege education. They did attend conventional school until age 8, but one of the things that contributed to our eventual decision to unschool is that I was always struck by how much more they seemed to learn on days when they had to stay home due to snow day or illness than they actually learned at school. When left to their own devices at home, they chose to do far more challenging projects than any conventional teacher would have asked them to do.

That said, so long as they were enrolled in school, I did feel an obligation to send them to school regularly and not to have them miss school for frivolous reasons. I knew that missing several days of class could present some inconveniences to the teacher´s plans and possibly to classmates as well (e.g., if there were group projects planned.)

My husband and I did make a couple of very memorable exceptions for very special travel opportunities that presented themselves, particularly when we had the children enrolled in different schools that had different vacation weeks, so there was no way to schedule it without at least one child missing a few days. One of the most special was when our older daughter was in kindergarten and her dad was invited to give a talk at a Wolfram Mathematica conference in Boston. The company had rented the entire Computer Museum for a special evening event to which all conference attendees were invited to attend with a date. I do not know if anyone remembers the old Computer Museum in Boston but it was a very hands-on kind of place and it had a giant two story model of a computer that you could walk through and see the innards of with a giant keyboard and also a working computer made out of Tinker Toys and many other fun things. My older daughter went as her dad´s ¨date¨ while I stayed back at the hotel with her toddler younger sister. She had just turned six but already doing some simple programming in BASIC and LOGO and wound up being the only kid in the museum (since everyone else was a grownup) and loved having the run of the entire place.

We did apologize in advance, but the teacher, principal, and librarian at the school were all very excited that she was going to have this opportunity and did not want her to miss it. They urged us to go. And of course we had many other wonderful educational adventures on the trip.

Once we made the decision to allow both children to unschool, it was glorious and lovely to finally have the full freedom to take educational trips together as a family whenever opportunities serendipitously presented themselves (i.e., usually in conjunction with a business trip for one or both parents.) Those memories are quite priceless. The wonderful thing about traveling as a family when most schools are in session is that museums and parks and beaches are often quite deserted, train or plane tickets are cheaper, airports and train stations are less hectic, etc.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by MDfan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:59 pm

Never had any problems pulling our kids out of elementary school. It was always cheaper to travel during the offseason and we did our Disney trips during the Fall or Winter. Would always try to schedule it around scheduled days off, but 2-3 days here and there is no big deal at that age.

Xrayman69
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Xrayman69 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:04 pm

Elementary school, I see no problem in taking kids out for worthy worldly character building and family bonding experiences. The knowledge/facts your child gains in a given day or week of ES is easily made up and exceeded from experiences that develop a sense of community.

I had an issue very similar to this with my daughters school ONCE. They also said why can’t this be done another time. I didn’t want to reveal for personal reasons why but upon further clarification with the school they stated understanding. The purpose was to visit a unique site and meet unique individuals that would have been deemed a civic lesson and worthy. My job frequently calls for me to travel and offers unique opportunities that my wife and I want and are expected to share with our child. Frequently this does not have the convenience of school holiday or break schedule. Are we privileged and do we deserve special consideration and thus should our child? I don’t think so, but I’m ultimately charged with the best interest of my child and my family and thus I will be the one to make the decision, not a school p, teacher or administrator.

It’s funny sometimes schools talk about various historical sites or people, when given the opportunity to directly interact, touch, or meet I would say a real life experience far outweighs the loss of a day or week of school that can be made up in probably a weekend.

Hillview
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Hillview » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:06 pm

yeah if my kid was struggling academically or socially I''d feel differently about missing a week of school.

theplayer11
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by theplayer11 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:09 pm

sometimes you learn more out of school. We had no problems pulling our kids. They were good students, if not, the decision might have been tougher.

HIinvestor
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by HIinvestor » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:22 pm

Agree that if a child is struggling socially and/or academically, there are additional issues weighing against missing school.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by mmmodem » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:17 pm

Ron Ronnerson wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:47 pm
I have a student who is having difficulty in math and his family pulled him out for only two days to go to Disneyland about a week ago. In order to prepare for an upcoming math test, we were doing the chapter review during both the days he missed. After he returned, I gave him a few extra days to get ready for the test. He's a nice kid who tried his best but he just didn't do well. I think that being present during the review would have made a difference for him.
I was classmate to the thousands of others that were pulled out of school just like him. I wasn't the only person to notice him absent right before failing a math test. If it didn't instill in his mind that vacation is more important than school, it did to me. I noticed that those who struggled academically tended to have the lowest attendance record.

And to those who never regretted missing school to do that once in a lifetime thing, I also never regretted having perfect attendance either. I'm not saying never take your child out of school. I'm saying if you do, make sure it's important and not just to go to Disney.

hmw
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by hmw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:03 am

We have a 7-year old in Grade two at a private school. We were told by his teacher that DS can be absent up to 10% of the school year. I get the feeling that there is some flexibility with the 10% number as long as the student is doing well academically. We took DS out of school 3 weeks last year and will do it again this school year.

squirm
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by squirm » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:31 am

We do. We're only get to see them grow once.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by texasdiver » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:47 am

Teacher here:

I would not do it in High School. It is the rare kid who can truly get caught back up after missing 2 weeks in HS. Most do not. The three most important years in HS are 9th-11th grades. If you fall behind in grades and class rank early in HS you can’t ever really catch up because the kids ahead have to do worse than your kid in order to catch up and pass them in the rankings, and most will not. Not that school rankings are all important but they are one of the factors used for college admission by many schools. Most kids apply and gain college admissions the fall of their senior year so senior year grades are usually not part of the calculation. You can’t blow off your senior year because colleges do require you submit them after admittance and schools have been known to rescind admissions if students do too poorly their senior year.

However I don’t have a problem with it in elementary school. In fact I pulled my daughter from school for 2 weeks in 4th grade for a family trip to Chile. She blogged the trip for her classmates. For a variety of reasons we had to go in Feb. The seasons are also reversed so that was late summer and our sumer vacation here would be winter in Chile.

We were living in Texas at the time. I was kind of shocked that the school put up so much resistance and told us we weren’t allowed to have that long of absence. I said fine. What we will do is withdraw her for homeschooling (which is perfectly legal in Texas) and then in 2 weeks we will re enroll her here which is also within rights as we live in this district and pay taxes. The school administrator thought about it for a minute and then said fine. You win. We don’t need to go through all that. Just make sure you coordinate with her teacher for her missing work.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by CarpeDiem22 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:58 am

My parents never pulled me out of school for casual vacations. The unsaid rule I came to understand was that education was above everything else. While I stopped staying with my parents after school, the rule stuck with me even through college. Doesn't mean that I didn't travel or have fun in college but I knew my priorities. Today, at 31 years old, I'm doing well thanks to my past education.

So the question, in my view, is not what the kids will miss in 1 week of school, but how it will change their perception of what to prioritize.

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celia
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by celia » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:00 am

staythecourse wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:24 pm
I am pretty cynical and am pretty sure they don't care about truancy because of the kid's education so am pretty sure there are $$$ somehow involved.
Of course, money is involved, but that's not the main reason students should be in school each day (or doing something educational). Since the standardized testing started sometime around 2003, they have been trying to get the graduation rates up and show that the HS diploma means that the student can perform at a minimal level (at least here in California). Since there is a high correlation between school attendance and achievement, the first step was to locate students who weren't attending school. If a student is not in school, he or she probably isn't practicing the concepts being taught that day.

When one of my kids was in kindergarten, I had a lengthy conversation with the teacher one day. She confided that she could tell in kindergarten which kids were going to go to college someday and which would not even finish high school. The college-bound kids came from families who supported the educational system, helped in classrooms, brought in extra supplies, and read with the student every night. The future drop-outs had frequent absences (in kindergarten) and didn't know how to hold a book or use scissors on the first day.

To put this thread in context, we have to remember that Bogleheads do not represent the general population, we tend to be high achievers in various fields, AND we self-select to participate here.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by bmelikia » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:06 am

gasdoc wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:33 pm
No. We wanted to send the message to our daughter that school is too important, and we wanted to send the same message to her teachers. Now, she does not cut classes in college. Cause-effect relationship? Maybe.

Gasdoc
Do her professors send you an attendance record or something? That would be odd. . .
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Starfish
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Starfish » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:24 am

My kid is first grade, but I would never take him out of school except maybe last 2 days before summer or winter vacation starts.
It's not that I am too worried that he will miss something, it's all about the message. School is the most important thing and he should have this tattooed on his brain.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by Starfish » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 am

kacang wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Our kids' (public) school discourages it and asks the parents to consider making a donation to make up for the loss in funding due to such absences.
I make a donation every year. It's called taxes. Deep 5 digits of state and property, 6 digits of federal, who knows how much sales tax, plus couple of hundred here and there because USA is like a third world country and schools don't have pencils and stuff. It's just ridiculous.

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market timer
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by market timer » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:01 am

DW and I always try to bring our kids with us on international trips, regardless of whether school is in session. We both hated classroom settings growing up.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:13 am

We never pulled our children from school. We took our vacations during the summer break or during school holidays.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by metacritic » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:30 am

We took children out of elementary school for 1 week to make a trip to South Africa, adding to the week of winter break they are given. We made certain to include elements to the trip that helped them learn about the history of apartheid, about its ongoing legacy, and gave them exposure to things they would never have encountered through school and possibly ever if not for this trip.

At the time, it seemed a once in a lifetime trip for them. Because it went so well and has become foundational to their worldview, we will repeat it and similar trips in summers to come. And conceivably during future winter breaks as well.

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GoldStar
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by GoldStar » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:38 am

5 days out is a long time. There was once a case of a Monday holiday and a Friday day off (Teacher planning day or some such thing) and we pulled them out for the 3 days in between for a week off. Both good students in grammar school (wouldn't do it in High School) at the time. All other times we would wait for their school vacations (which made things difficult because a lot of us in state parents were trying to all use our frequent flyer miles the same week so free tickets from local airport were always hard to get).
Most of our vacations were cultural/educational - not all learning happens in school.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by RobLyons » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 am

We haven't, only because we don't travel much. However, we will if we decide to travel. They are 3rd / 1st grade and both great kids with good feedback from teachers.

Our wealthy friends pull their children out for a week here and there without any negative consequences.

Bottom line, they will remember it for the rest of their life whereas they won't remember another week in elementary school.
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:46 am

Iirc, we never pulled our kids out when they attended the same school. There was a short period where they attended schools with different schedules, and I think we probably had one of them miss a couple of days.

Regarding the financial aspect of truancy to the school: Dawn breaks over Marblehead! My high school never seemed to care much about me, but when I “dropped out” of my senior year to attend an OOS college, my parents told me that a truancy officer came by a few times looking for me. They told him I wasn’t skipping school, but it didn’t seem to register with him. Now I have a plausible explanation. :D

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yatesd
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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by yatesd » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:07 am

We are committed to giving our daughter a great education. Our school considers any absence inexcusable which I think is ridiculous.

A few thoughts:

- Ideally no more than 1 or 2 weeks missed and with rare exception shouldn't be at the same time
- I hate crowds and overpaying for vacation. I agree with others about conflicts with other co-workers. I'd prefer if they eliminated "spring break" and let me take my family somewhere on my own schedule for a week every year
- I agree that the schools are probably trying to limit days off for financial reasons rather than educational reasons
- We always tried to do something interesting
- Education is more important than anything else??? More important than family??? Very surprised by some of the responses. Education is important but probably towards the bottom of my "top ten list"
- Also, one point of frustration. I believe in well rounded education. This is a combination of formal and informal education from diverse sources. Never liked the concept of thinking formal education was somehow different. Yes, I have an MBA...so not totally anti-school.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by skp » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:37 am

I think it's an individual choice and all on how you look at things.
My sons 4th grade teacher took a week off to go to Hawaii with her husband. He won it and it was set at a certain time during the school year. Should she be "allowed" to take off? His 6th grade teacher was off "sick" at least 30 days one school year supposedly because of family illness (pre FMLA). That's 20% of the school year. His class was bad behavior wise with the subs had a hard time controlling the class. (this was an off and on thing and they didn't have any consistent subs). I think the quality of his education suffered because of it. That school had a rather loose attendance policy for the teachers IMO.
So...I would find it hypocritical of them to give a parent a hard time for pulling their child out for vacations. Fortunately they were very accommodating. We took our kids out for skiing several times. Skiing is expensive. I only want to pay the money when the snow conditions are worth it. Add to that the fact that I have to travel 10 hours to ski some place decent. Presidents day and MLK day are mobbed and the rates are really jacked up. So planning a ski vacation is really limited if you have to plan around the school schedule.
Now my neighbor took her kid out (straight A student) to go shopping. Academically it didn't hurt her to miss the days. But I think THAT sets a bad example. I don't value shopping. Someone upthread doesn't value Disney. Maybe it's hypocritical of me to judge what is a "good" reason and what isn't.
I think it's an individual decision and not the schools. What can they do? As for is it giving the children a bad example. We have PTO at work- you can call off for any reason- limit 6 call offs a year of unscheduled time. If I called off 30 days like the teacher I'd be out of a job.

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by dcabler » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:48 am

Doom&Gloom wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:29 pm
We never did. Always thought it set a very poor example. No regrets.
+1

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Re: Pull kids from school for vacations?

Post by jebmke » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:57 am

ThankYouJack wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:35 pm
So it seems like only a couple states tie dollars to attendance. I'm guessing my state isn't one of them, but may google it or ask teachers.
It isn't always the states that are involve. Schools in my county are partially funded by the county budget and part by the state. By state law, the county is required to fund the schools to a minimum maintenance of effort. But there is a revenue cap law in the county -- ie., the county revenue is capped in absolute dollars - no matter what happens to the tax base. The maintenance of effort is calculated based on attendance so if that amount goes down, the county shifts money from schools to other things (e.g. roads, law enforcement etc.) since the revenue is capped.
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