Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

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bloom2708
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by bloom2708 »

nedsaid wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 am I know the Economist Magazine believes in all of this stuff but I have my doubts. First, the earth has been warmer than it is now, during the time of the Roman Empire, and history seems to show that civilization thrived. Second, the warming that we saw might have just been an emergence from the "Little Ice Age." Third, there seems to be a cyclicality to all of this. I have read that we saw warming during the 1920's and 1930's. Fourth, a lot of this is based upon computer models which have produced less than accurate forecasts. Two examples, the Ice Caps didn't disappear in 2013 and hurricane activity didn't pick up as predicted. Indeed, we saw a period of relative calm that lasted several years. Fifth, the influential people who lecture us most on this are energy hogs themselves, living in mansions and flying to conferences in private jets. The irony of the picture of private planes stacked up at Davos where the owners were attending a climate change conference.

Certainly I favor clean air and clean water. Certainly I favor greater energy efficiency and cleaner forms of energy. But there needs to be a real discussion on this and not just told "the science is settled." We can't even make 100% accurate short term weather forecasts. Too often, people who raise question are just silenced. Science has never been about "consensus." There is also the suspicion that the data has been tampered with.

Most of the North American continent was under sheets of ice not so many thousands of years ago. The earth warmed and there was no industry, no automobiles, no coal plants, and of course many fewer people. I also recall reading somewhere of a find of a Wholly Mammoth that appeared to have been flash frozen, like there had been a dramatic and sudden drop in temperatute. So it seems that climate changes over time and not too much man could do about it.

I also recall that when I was in grade school in the early 1970's that there was concern about a new ice age. Global cooling. Less than 15 years later, we were worried about warming. The hypothesis about warming and increased levels of carbon dioxide was a good one but there are many, many more factors at work here. In the 1970's, I remember that we had only twenty years before we were all polluted to death. Disaster is always around the corner but after a lifetime hearing conflicting theories and data, I am just skeptical.

Certainly, I applaud the great progress that has been made with environmental cleanup. Both the air and water are considerably cleaner than when I was a child. We are actually seeing reforestation here in North America. We have made progress with endangered species. So that battle hasn't been won yet and there is a lot to go but again much progress has been made.
Well said nedsaid.

Work on little changes you can make in your own sphere of influence and under your control. Buying carbon credits won't do anything but line someone else's pockets.

Read Valuethinker's post followed by nedsaid's. Now you understand why this issue is so polarizing. Science is settled, obfuscation with terms and science meant to strike fear into all, you are denier, meh.

I'll do things in my sphere of influence and in my control. The rest is noise, fear and aimed at separating me from my money. The guy in the next cube must have "methane pulsed" in his cube. I smelled it when I walked by. :shock:
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munemaker
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by munemaker »

Carbon offset fees, carbon taxes and the like are a scam.
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unclescrooge
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by unclescrooge »

cheese_breath wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:30 pm Why no mention of cows here? Everybody knows cows are the cause of global warming. :P :P :P
This why I'm trying to rid the planet of cows, one steak at a time!
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JoMoney
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by JoMoney »

nedsaid wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 am...there needs to be a real discussion on this and not just told "the science is settled." We can't even make 100% accurate short term weather forecasts. Too often, people who raise question are just silenced. Science has never been about "consensus." There is also the suspicion that the data has been tampered with...
I don't take any issue with the idea that greenhouse gasses impact change on the climate of the planet. The science there is pretty convincing.
I don't have any issue with the idea that humankind can and does influence the rate at which some portion of these gasses get released into the system.
I am skeptical regarding the accuracy of what percentage of the release can be attributed to people, and to what extent that piece of the change can be modeled to accurately predict the climate. There are just too many other factors. I'm of the opinion that some alarmist takes go too far, I've just seen too many extreme claims made in the past that haven't played out.
Despite that, to the extent that I am skeptical on parts of it, it needs to be considered because if the alarmists are right what is at risk is too severe.

The economics of various policies is where the "discussion" get's interesting, but economic models are certainly not "science", and there are many polarizing views when it comes to who (if anyone) should be given control of the economic levers. Many, and it does seem to polarize politically, have an inherent distrust of the organization that seems to promote most of the research and tries to suggest economic policies around it.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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unclescrooge
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by unclescrooge »

munemaker wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:13 pm Carbon offset fees, carbon taxes and the like are a scam.
Indeed... Which begs the question, how can I get in on that? :mrgreen:

I'm not being totally facetious. What's a good way for me to be able to sell carbon credits?
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JoMoney
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by JoMoney »

unclescrooge wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:40 pm
munemaker wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:13 pm Carbon offset fees, carbon taxes and the like are a scam.
Indeed... Which begs the question, how can I get in on that? :mrgreen:

I'm not being totally facetious. What's a good way for me to be able to sell carbon credits?
Someone should setup an exchange where conscientious, thrifty, conservationists can sell credits for their below average use of energy. I wonder if people would start turning the lights off when they leave a room if they would have to start paying me for doing it for them.
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pilot_error
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by pilot_error »

This podcast from NPR has one explanation for your question of why it is so cheap.

Planet Money podcast
https://www.npr.org/player/embed/659049880/659050066
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unclescrooge
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by unclescrooge »

pilot_error wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:26 pm This podcast from NPR has one explanation for your question of why it is so cheap.

Planet Money podcast
https://www.npr.org/player/embed/659049880/659050066
I hate how everything is turning into a podcast or video. I can read 2x faster than most people talk (unless it's Gilmore Girls).
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cheese_breath
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by cheese_breath »

JoMoney wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:49 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:30 pm Why no mention of cows here? Everybody knows cows are the cause of global warming. :P :P :P
And exercise... it makes people exhale more C02.
I wonder if I stop exercising, if I can sell the difference for a carbon credit.
Or you could carry a potted plant with you on your runs and breath onto the plant.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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JoMoney
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by JoMoney »

cheese_breath wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:45 pm
JoMoney wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:49 pm
cheese_breath wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:30 pm Why no mention of cows here? Everybody knows cows are the cause of global warming. :P :P :P
And exercise... it makes people exhale more C02.
I wonder if I stop exercising, if I can sell the difference for a carbon credit.
Or you could carry a potted plant with you on your runs and breath onto the plant.
If I sit on the couch AND have a plant, maybe I can sell more carbon credits.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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DanMahowny
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

Post by DanMahowny »

Didn't read all the responses . . . . this has probably been said,

They're cheap because there is no demand for such a thing. The vast majority of people realize carbon credits are a complete scam and wouldn't think of wasting their money buying them.
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LadyGeek
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Re: Why are Carbon Offset Credits so cheap?

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