College Student Performance Issues

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luckybamboo
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College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm

Hi
I am seeking help from veteran parents of college students. This is our first child so would like to use you as sounding board.
DD started college in August. The college is 7 miles from home but she is living in the dorm as per her wish of having full fledged college experience. The college does allow commuting in the Freshmen year.

The first 3 weeks went fine in terms of her academic responsibility and performance. But since then we have noticed that she is consistently skipping classes and is behind on many assignments. She is a very social person and has made many friends and socializes extensively with them everyday.
Initially, she would come home in the weekend (2 weeks in a row). Then we realized that she was missing the socializing opportunities in the weekend and was compensating it in the school days and would be out late in the night and miss classes in the morning.
So, we asked her not to come home and use the weekend to satisfy her socializing needs. But the behavior hasn't changed in the weekdays.
To summarize - we feel that her 'primary objective is to socialize and study in the free time'. We asked her about her grades and she says she is doing fine and professor's haven't put in the grades yet.

**** A background point - She has been diagnosed with ADD and is taking treatment for it. Her missed assignments and lack of motivation to study has been an issue even in high school.

Now, to the main question.
1. Should we mandate her to share her grades with us regularly?
2. DH seems to think that if this continues, we should ask her to commute and not let her live in the dorm in the next semester.
3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene?

Any advise is very much appreciated.

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Alexa9
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Alexa9 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:48 pm

She sounds immature like many freshman. It depends on her major but that won't work out for very long. If you're paying it's totally up to you. Maybe she needs to work or go to community college first to figure things out and maybe take out loans. Maybe some career counseling will give her a reality check.

teniralc
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by teniralc » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:02 pm

When they are 18 or older, the privacy laws will not allow parents to communicate with professors about academic issues. But, as many parents pay the fees for the student, parents can certainly communicate directly with the student to know what grades/assignments are due. There are services on campuses (writing center, professors' office hours, counseling services for stress/emotional issues). There is often also a service for students with disabilities, which can encompass a wide range of potential issues that a student might face such as ADHD, etc. Students who get an "accommodation" for their issues can be eligible for extra assistance. If the issue is simply the party/socializing and not attending to work, a gentle approach might be to help them find a classmate in the class and encourage them to do the work together to stay accountable. Depending on the relationship the parent has with the student, a more direct approach can also work. Something like relating each course they attend to a dollar amount. Here are two ways to do this (there can be many creative and kind approaches to help the student relate to the cost)–if they fail a course, they will need to take it again, likely in the summer. If the school has a price of about $400 per credit, a 3 credit course would cost $1200. You can lay out $1200 in cash on the table for them to see (maybe even count it), and explain how long it takes for you to make that amount, after taxes, or how long it would take them to make it, or how long it would take to pay that amount back in loans. Another approach is to relate it to a car payment. Not sure if your student has a car payment, but many students do so this is something they relate to.

I teach college. I have one child who just graduated from college and another who just started. I would say the biggest thing that helps is simply staying in touch with the student. Visit them in person and text/talk often. Be supportive and continue to ask them to seek out professors' help and tutoring services. Over time, students start to make connections. I can say that in the years I've been teaching, I've noticed that students feel the weight of the loans, more than in the past. And so do their parents, so this pressure gets passed down to the student. I would say to be compassionate and persistent. If they fail a course it is not the end of the world and it might be the lesson they need to correct themselves. Good luck

livesoft
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by livesoft » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:07 pm

If what you wrote is true, then I think she needs to stop college and get a job to keep her busy. She can always go to college later.
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Normchad
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Normchad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:08 pm

We’ve got an only child daughter in college as well, this is her third year. I’ve seen a lot of her friends have struggles. Even the ones that were very high achievers in high school.

In reddit threads asking seniors what advice they would give to freshman, the number one answer and regret is always this. “Go to class, it makes everything else so much easier”.

I skipped a ton of classes my freshman year, and did okay, but not great. From that I learned, showing up is super important. That lesson has served me well in life. Glad I learned it.

As I told my kid, most of what you will learn will be from outside the classroom. I think it’s important to make mistakes. Fir me, I only learn by making mistakes. But still, going to class is super important. She should go.

She’s still your kid. If you want to see real time grades, there shouldn’t be any question or pushback. FERPA is a thing of course. But you’re all in this together, to help everybody succeed. If I can’t login to see grades, I can’t log in to pay bills eithe. :). Yes, there are strings attached to parental support.

If I were you, I’d probably be quiet until the semester grades come in. Then talk about hr goals, and how she wants to get there. I’d also be clear though that parental support comes with expectations, and you’re not shelling out major money for lack of effort. If she’s paying for everything though, then really it’s all in her control.

smitcat
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by smitcat » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:12 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:07 pm
If what you wrote is true, then I think she needs to stop college and get a job to keep her busy. She can always go to college later.
Yes - gotta agree with you on this.

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knpstr
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by knpstr » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:14 pm

Are you paying for schooling? If yes, you can have some control -- you can cut funds. If no, she's an adult and you can't really do anything.

It sounds like this behavior is "normal" since you said this is how she behaved in high school, why would it be different now? How do you know she is skipping class? How do you know she is behind on assignments? You seem to have pretty good surveillance already.

I'd say overall, yes, going back to my college days there were certainly people like this, to that extent it is normal. However, they were the ones likely to drop out and move home or to still be working on their undergrad degree after 6 years. VERY RARELY, these types of people would get fantastic grades or graduate on time.

Final point, college isn't for everyone -- despite the culture today saying everyone needs to go to college. She sounds like she doesn't have a "goal", she is there just to pass the time. What is she going to major in? How does that help with her desired career? Would she better off staying at home and getting a job then in a few years get an apartment?

Just my opinion, hope it helps you in some way, good luck.
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TIAX
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by TIAX » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:21 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm
The first 3 weeks went fine in terms of her academic responsibility and performance. But since then we have noticed that she is consistently skipping classes and is behind on many assignments.
This may or may not be an issue. It's quite possible to skip classes and do well. Do you have the syllabus for each of her classes (they should be on a website)? Has she received grades for any assignments?

Note that you can have your daughter sign a FERPA waiver so that you can access her records. Find the form on the school's website.

luckybamboo
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:26 pm

knpstr wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:14 pm
Are you paying for schooling? If yes, you can have some control -- you can cut funds. If no, she's an adult and you can't really do anything.
Yes we are
It sounds like this behavior is "normal" since you said this is how she behaved in high school, why would it be different now? How do you know she is skipping class? How do you know she is behind on assignments? You seem to have pretty good surveillance already.
I just sensed it and confronted her and she kept quiet and I got the answer. I just shared an article that showed the consequences of skipping classes. And she said she hasn't missed that many. (whatever that means)
I'd say overall, yes, going back to my college days there were certainly people like this, to that extent it is normal. However, they were the ones likely to drop out and move home or to still be working on their undergrad degree after 6 years. VERY RARELY, these types of people would get fantastic grades or graduate on time.
Hoping for the best. We internally have assumed that she will graduate in 5 years.
Final point, college isn't for everyone -- despite the culture today saying everyone needs to go to college. She sounds like she doesn't have a "goal", she is there just to pass the time. What is she going to major in? How does that help with her desired career? Would she better off staying at home and getting a job then in a few years get an apartment?
No, she does have a goal. She took admission in a college but then decided that she wants to be a speech pathologist and consistently says that. But she lacks the discipline to convert goals into workable actions.

MotoTrojan
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by MotoTrojan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:28 pm

I skipped classes, performed well, and have a very competitive career. That shouldn’t be the metric. If she relies on you for funding her social life perhaps tie each semesters allotment to the previous ones grades. A job would be even better but that means less time and more stress that’ll increase need for social time.

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Socrates28
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Socrates28 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:42 pm

**** A background point - She has been diagnosed with ADD and is taking treatment for it. Her missed assignments and lack of motivation to study has been an issue even in high school.

I work in the disability department of a college and am a licensed educational psychologist. I also teach courses at a small college.

Keep in mind she is moving to a very unstructured environment. She is in charge of her schedule and it it is a lot less structured than living with a parent or going to high school. Dealing with unstructured activities is very difficult for a new college student living away and even more with someone with ADD. She is taking medication, but is it working? Is she taking the medication? Sounds like she struggled with many of the same issues in high school, going to be more of a struggle in college without intervention. Perhaps look at her medication again with your physician. There are quite a few options out there and some may be more effective than others.

Now, to the main question.
1. Should we mandate her to share her grades with us regularly? I would until she can prove to manage her time.
2. DH seems to think that if this continues, we should ask her to commute and not let her live in the dorm in the next semester. Perhaps. Give her a chance to improve - maybe her freshman year?
3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene? I would begin to intervene. You can ramp it up if she continues to struggle.

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Watty
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Watty » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:42 pm

My son went to a state college that did not have a great retention and graduation rate. I looked those up and talked them over with my son before he went there and discussed how many of the students that were partying too much would not last very long.

What was a real eye opener for him was that when it went back to college in January of his freshman year and there were a lot of students that did not return after their first semester. In addition to students that flunked out many students lost scholarships or their parents would not fund the poor results anymore.

You might look up the retention statistics for her college and talk that over with her so that she knows what to expect. If she realizes that four years of moderate partying is a lot more fun than a semester or two of hard partying then she might get a better balance.
luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm
1. Should we mandate her to share her grades with us regularly?


If you are paying for college then yes. If she starts doing better then she can have some more independence. If the is having trouble think of this as TLC and not helicopter parenting.
luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm
2. DH seems to think that if this continues, we should ask her to commute and not let her live in the dorm in the next semester.
If she is not passing classes then I would do that. If she is passing but not doing great then that is less clear since often colleges are a lot more competitive and "B" student may slip to be more of a "C" student.

Be careful about having her take a semester off since she may have trouble getting readmitted to the school, look into that before she drops out of college. If she takes a semester off then it is very likely that she will never go back to college.
luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm
3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene?
The college likely has counseling available for students that are having a hard time adapting to college so it would be good to check to see what is available since they deal with this all the time. Doing this sooner rather than later is a good idea since once you get behind it can be very difficult to catch up.

MotoTrojan
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by MotoTrojan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:44 pm

Not sure if this is allowed to be said on here but those medications could fund quite a social life for her so watch out for that.

luckybamboo
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:50 pm

Socrates28 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:42 pm
Keep in mind she is moving to a very unstructured environment. She is in charge of her schedule and it it is a lot less structured than living with a parent or going to high school. Dealing with unstructured activities is very difficult for a new college student living away and even more with someone with ADD. She is taking medication, but is it working? Is she taking the medication? Sounds like she struggled with many of the same issues in high school, going to be more of a struggle in college without intervention. Perhaps look at her medication again with your physician. There are quite a few options out there and some may be more effective than others.
Now, to the main question.
1. Should we mandate her to share her grades with us regularly? I would until she can prove to manage her time.
2. DH seems to think that if this continues, we should ask her to commute and not let her live in the dorm in the next semester. Perhaps. Give her a chance to improve - maybe her freshman year?
3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene? I would begin to intervene. You can ramp it up if she continues to struggle.
Very astute observation and advise. Thanks so much.

luckybamboo
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:53 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:44 pm
Not sure if this is allowed to be said on here but those medications could fund quite a social life for her so watch out for that.
That thought has occurred to me but I trust her in those matters. She isn't going to go that far. She is a good kid at heart just immature and irresponsible about studies. And she has saved $4000 from summer /PT jobs that should be enough for her excursions.

MotoTrojan
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by MotoTrojan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:56 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:53 pm
MotoTrojan wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:44 pm
Not sure if this is allowed to be said on here but those medications could fund quite a social life for her so watch out for that.
That thought has occurred to me but I trust her in those matters. She isn't going to go that far. She is a good kid at heart just immature and irresponsible about studies. And she has saved $4000 from summer /PT jobs that should be enough for her excursions.
Sounds good. “Study aids” was a regularly seen phrase on my recent college experience. You’d even see it on public Facebook groups/posts (morons).

Good luck but I wouldn’t get too nervous or overbearing. This is pretty normal for freshman.

KlangFool
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:58 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 pm

Now, to the main question.
1. Should we mandate her to share her grades with us regularly?
luckybamboo,

Due to privacy and so on, there is a formal process for you as a parent to request and get a login to access her grades. And, you should have insisted on this when you agreed to pay her tuition bills. We did this for both of our kids. We treated college education as a job for our kids. We pay their bills as long as they meet the performance standard.

<<3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene?>>

Many kids drop out of college after the first year due to bad study habits. It is normal for many kids to fail.

KlangFool
Last edited by KlangFool on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

msj16
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by msj16 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:59 pm

There is such a thing as an ADHD coach that one can hire. The coach checks in with the student via facetime, phone-call etc.... The coach can help to minimize conflicts between parents and children (including adult children). She needs to figure out what structure she can add to her life (i.e., increased organization, going to the library after class instead of the dorm).

Some freshmen students with ADHD end up on academic probabation. I think it is important to check in with her about her grades so that this doesn't suddenly happen to her. Also consider that there is something in the psychological field known as "mental age" - and it is estimated that it is three years younger for ADHD - so continue to offer structure and support.

delamer
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by delamer » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:11 pm

One of my kids is ADD, so I sympathize. And I can understand the arguments for intervening, especially regarding her medication if it isn’t working as well as it should.

However, maybe you should let her accept the consequences of her actions. Her college and her professors will make it very clear if she isn’t performing up to their standards, through bad grades and academic probation.

For some kids, that is the wake up call that they need.

Also, how do you know that she is skipping classes and behind on assignments? I wouldn’t be monitoring her to that degree. However, you could certainly make it clear that if her GPA is too low, then she won’t be returning on your dime.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:41 pm

3. Is this normal? How do we help? - Leave her alone or intervene?
We have a similar situation with one of our kids. We have not "solved" the puzzle, but some things that are working for us:

1. We didn't intervene much, but did insist that the school's counseling office be involved. They have bent over backwards to smooth the path for our son.
2. This might not work for you if there are financial constraints, but we made it clear that we did not require that he graduate in 4 years. Many kids don't, and we didn't think it was beneficial to him to feel pressured to do so. So, between a lighter course load each semester, and some additional summer school classes, he will be close to graduating with his class (one additional semester), and doesn't find the work too much.

When I was a freshman, I really screwed up my academic year. I barely passed the couple of classes that I didn't withdraw from. When I went home to see my family, my father's disappointment was palpable, but all he said was "I know that you can do better." He wrote the check for the next year's tuition, and I decided that I would make him never regret it. I had all "A" grades after that (I think there was a B somewhere), I made up my missed credits, and I was accepted to graduate school. Sometimes we live up to the expectations people have for us.

I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. It's a diagnosis that frequently is used as an excuse (a bit like "emotional support animals" on a flight), but it is real and certain things are just not easy for those affected, no matter how bright they are.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:48 pm

Look at the school's academic probation policy. I would expect that if she fails out of enough courses, she'll formally be on academic probation which would require her grades to come up in a set time or she's out. Perhaps send her an email with this policy linked.

Thinking back, if I were to have skipped classes, I would have been dead. Of course, I was in an intense engineering program with 7 week terms where we could expect a quiz during any class.
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UpperNwGuy
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:56 pm

Been there.... My first two kids did well in college and graduated on time. My third required the normal 4 years plus 3 extra full semesters plus 2 summer semesters to finally get to his degree. I think he finally buckled down after he realized that all of his friends were graduating and moving on with their lives.

KlangFool
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:01 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:48 pm
Look at the school's academic probation policy. I would expect that if she fails out of enough courses, she'll formally be on academic probation which would require her grades to come up in a set time or she's out. Perhaps send her an email with this policy linked.

Thinking back, if I were to have skipped classes, I would have been dead. Of course, I was in an intense engineering program with 7 week terms where we could expect a quiz during any class.
Jack FFR1846,

For some engineering program, you are only allowed 3 withdrawals from classes. After the third one, you are on immediate suspension of the engineering program. You have to re-appeal to get back to the program. OP needs to know and understand her daughter's degree requirement. A drop is not counted.

KlangFool

Bacchus01
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Bacchus01 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm

Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?

Big Dog
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Big Dog » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:05 pm

I personally would not pay for college socializing. I told my kids that they could work hard at a sleep-away college, or live at home and attend a community college. Their choice.

Now the LD is another issue, so my ultimatum would be: get you butt over to the counseling center to get some help to clean up your act, or come home and attend a community college. Not paying for the 5-year plan.

Mike Scott
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Mike Scott » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:12 pm

I would consider pushing her gently towards the campus student services and student mentoring for help rather than going in heavy handed parent so quickly. Give her a chance to screw up a bit and be an adult. There are many support people on campus and you can remain a supportive parent without being intrusive and micromanaging. Letting your kids learn to do their own thing is good for them and it won't kill you if you relax a bit. Some days I wonder where my adult children get some of their screwy ideas and they often say it was from me...

If your child has a genuine need for more structure to remain healthy, living on campus may not be the right choice for her but let that suggestion come from her or the campus support people or doctors.

Nate79
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by Nate79 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:22 pm

You are paying so your rules. I would require access to grades, require her to not skip class, and I would consider she should be working while in school to learn some responsibility. I saw this many times while teaching college classes and these students have a high chance of failure. She should fund her own socializing as well.

smitcat
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by smitcat » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:24 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:26 pm
knpstr wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:14 pm
Are you paying for schooling? If yes, you can have some control -- you can cut funds. If no, she's an adult and you can't really do anything.
Yes we are
It sounds like this behavior is "normal" since you said this is how she behaved in high school, why would it be different now? How do you know she is skipping class? How do you know she is behind on assignments? You seem to have pretty good surveillance already.
I just sensed it and confronted her and she kept quiet and I got the answer. I just shared an article that showed the consequences of skipping classes. And she said she hasn't missed that many. (whatever that means)
I'd say overall, yes, going back to my college days there were certainly people like this, to that extent it is normal. However, they were the ones likely to drop out and move home or to still be working on their undergrad degree after 6 years. VERY RARELY, these types of people would get fantastic grades or graduate on time.
Hoping for the best. We internally have assumed that she will graduate in 5 years.
Final point, college isn't for everyone -- despite the culture today saying everyone needs to go to college. She sounds like she doesn't have a "goal", she is there just to pass the time. What is she going to major in? How does that help with her desired career? Would she better off staying at home and getting a job then in a few years get an apartment?
No, she does have a goal. She took admission in a college but then decided that she wants to be a speech pathologist and consistently says that. But she lacks the discipline to convert goals into workable actions.
"No, she does have a goal. She took admission in a college but then decided that she wants to be a speech pathologist and consistently says that"
I would suggest that both you and your daughter look into the likely requirements to get into a graduate speech pathology program.
Better for everyone to be fully aware of that now rather than later.
We just recently saw how competitive they are - low grades in core classes will not allow for the later goals.

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whodidntante
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by whodidntante » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:36 pm

I would warn her that you will withdraw financial support if her academic performance does not improve in a month. And if it does not improve, I would follow through. She is there to get an education, and there are cheaper avenues for socialization.

luckybamboo
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:44 pm

Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?
Please don't give unhelpful comments. She is a smart kid struggling to cope with unstructured study life. The fact that a very good university gave her admission is the proof of her potential. We as parents want to help her develop skills to overcome the difficulties that come with ADHD and meet her potential.

hogfanboy
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by hogfanboy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:12 pm

I have a child that sounds similar. He just started his 3rd year and I think he is finally getting to the responsibility of what we would like to see as a freshman. He has about 42 credit hours after 2 years, so he is behind but moving forward.
1) we have the funds and, to plan for 6 years of college.
2) The college degree may not have the value it once had. but I think college still has the value of one of the safest ways to "launch" you child.
3) Take my views given 1) and 2). some may not have the money or soft launch view.
4) Make sure on the last day to drop classes, she does an honest review of where she is at and drop the ones she will not pass. Probation may decide her college future for her. My son's school has a policy of 2 semesters of overall gpa below 2.0 and your gone. You have already spent the money a "F" does no good for anybody.
5) If there are core classes that she is weak on, take it during the summer at a community college. My son is weak on math and because of his placement score he was required to take 2 classes before he even got to a math class that counted to a degree. Doing some search and asking questions I found a school that didn't have a math placement test. and they had a summer math class that could meet(transfer) the core math class for graduation. It was a 4 week class. I basically took it with him and it was a tough month, but he feels much better now knowing he is done with math.

investingdad
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by investingdad » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:36 pm

My kids are still in middle school, but I can think back to my college days.

I'll be honest, the type of people I knew that fit your daughter's description are the ones I knew were on there way to flunking out. At some point all students have to decide how serious they are and buckle down on there own...it's what adults do.

I did this first semester after working a horrible summer job, that was my motivation.

Perhaps some first hand experience working an unpleasant or back breaking job would serve to motivate?

KlangFool
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:06 pm

OP,

1) Could you pay for 2 undergraduate degrees if she picks the wrong one for the first time?

2) Could you pay for 6 years of college just for an undergraduate degree?

3) What is your financial constraint? Does she know that?

4) Based on what you told us so far, it does not looks like you and she has any real concrete plan or discussion on this.

If you are rich and you can afford everything, perhaps this is not a problem. If not, you may need to start thinking of a fallback plan. Maybe she should start with a community college near home for the first 2 years before she knows what she wants to do with her life.

We, the uncles and aunties, had sponsored many of our nephews and nieces (not our own kids) through colleges over the past 10+ years. 50% of them drop out of the college and never completed the education.

KlangFool

TheDDC
Posts: 224
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by TheDDC » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:21 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:44 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?
Please don't give unhelpful comments. She is a smart kid struggling to cope with unstructured study life. The fact that a very good university gave her admission is the proof of her potential. We as parents want to help her develop skills to overcome the difficulties that come with ADHD and meet her potential.
Actually, I had quite the opposite reaction to this reply. I think it would be a question worth considering. To all too many college is viewed as year 5-8 of high school. Take a step back and ask yourself this. As much as parents are fed the line that "everyone can go to college", that is very much a bill of goods in the real world. Perhaps she needs to hone in on another career field with your help?

-TheDDC

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vineviz
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by vineviz » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:26 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:44 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?
Please don't give unhelpful comments.
+1
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch

TheDDC
Posts: 224
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by TheDDC » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:28 pm

hogfanboy wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:12 pm
I have a child that sounds similar. He just started his 3rd year and I think he is finally getting to the responsibility of what we would like to see as a freshman. He has about 42 credit hours after 2 years, so he is behind but moving forward.
1) we have the funds and, to plan for 6 years of college.
2) The college degree may not have the value it once had. but I think college still has the value of one of the safest ways to "launch" you child.
3) Take my views given 1) and 2). some may not have the money or soft launch view.
4) Make sure on the last day to drop classes, she does an honest review of where she is at and drop the ones she will not pass. Probation may decide her college future for her. My son's school has a policy of 2 semesters of overall gpa below 2.0 and your gone. You have already spent the money a "F" does no good for anybody.
5) If there are core classes that she is weak on, take it during the summer at a community college. My son is weak on math and because of his placement score he was required to take 2 classes before he even got to a math class that counted to a degree. Doing some search and asking questions I found a school that didn't have a math placement test. and they had a summer math class that could meet(transfer) the core math class for graduation. It was a 4 week class. I basically took it with him and it was a tough month, but he feels much better now knowing he is done with math.
Six years of college??? No wonder the universities are making a killing.

"Seven years of college down the drain..."

-TheDDC

123
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by 123 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:36 pm

If the grades for her first term are not to your satisfaction I would recommend switching her to a community college with commuting from your home. If she performs well for two terms at the community college she can return to the college living on campus. She should be made aware that if she leaves the university she may be delayed in returning due to the reapplication/readmission timeframes. Rinse and repeat.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

3504PIR
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by 3504PIR » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:43 pm

This is very common, and regardless of her initial performance she is still adjusting to a variety,of things but mainly her new found freedom. The problems she is having are probably linked to her maturity, or lack there of and/or being overwhelmed by the educational differences between high school and university.

On the immaturity issue, if that is part of the problem, she needs a wake up call. It took me the first two years of my undergrad to fully appreciate what was at stake. Luckily I was able to overcome it, but it was a close run thing.

If it’s educational as well, she should work through it as the semester progresses. My daughter was overwhelmed by her whole academic situation the first month or so of her freshman year. It was overwhelming to the point of it looking as if it was impossible to her. The lack of structure, learning to manage her time, having to learn material on her own rather than everything being covered in class really had her doubting herself. Once she got into a rhythm of study, writing papers gradually rather than at the last minute, and going through the process of taking tests and succeeding on them allowed her to adjust and then excel.

In a dorm, there are always kids socializing so there will always be an excuse not to work, but it’s something she has to learn to deal with. She won’t fail out in one semester. I’d remind her of the opportunity she’s been given, and define clearly the consequences of her underperforming (depending on what you decide, like moving her home next semester if she fails to perform, etc). Then let her work through this during the remainder of this semester. If you take action now, you’ll run the risk of delaying her maturity even longer. Ensure she knows the consequences now and let her work through it. Trial and error are an important part of learning.

stoptothink
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by stoptothink » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:44 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:21 pm
luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:44 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?
Please don't give unhelpful comments. She is a smart kid struggling to cope with unstructured study life. The fact that a very good university gave her admission is the proof of her potential. We as parents want to help her develop skills to overcome the difficulties that come with ADHD and meet her potential.
Actually, I had quite the opposite reaction to this reply. I think it would be a question worth considering. To all too many college is viewed as year 5-8 of high school. Take a step back and ask yourself this. As much as parents are fed the line that "everyone can go to college", that is very much a bill of goods in the real world. Perhaps she needs to hone in on another career field with your help?

-TheDDC
+10000000. At the very least, if OP's DD is committed to the idea that college is the right thing for her, she needs to begin showing it. In this situation I'd likely ask that she move back home, at the very least let her know that (as an adult) you support whatever decisions she makes, but that doesn't mean you have to financially support it. Maybe continue to pay tuition, but do not cover the cost of housing if she insists on living on campus.

One big lesson I've learned in life is that step #1 is just showing up. Just showing up, on time and prepared, literally puts you ahead of most people academically and in the workforce. If I, as a parent am financially funding it, my child better show up.

FWIW, my own wife went through this very thing at 18, except her parents weren't offering up a dime. She was fortunate to have received a full scholarship (for singing of all things, she was not a great high school student by any stretch), but was literally failing out within a year (by her own admission, mostly because socializing was more important than showing up to class). 1yr into her "college experience" she was married and on the verge of losing her scholarship had dropped out. After a 7yr trainwreck which culminated with her having to file bankruptcy and divorce a drug addict, she found herself a 26yr old single mom without a penny or a way to really support herself...today she is 32, makes 6-figures in the data security industry and simultaneously is a full-time student with a 4.0 (not a single "B" since returning to school 2yrs ago) and a mother of two. Some people just need life to smack them in the face a little.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by jabberwockOG » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:46 pm

investingdad wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:36 pm
My kids are still in middle school, but I can think back to my college days.

I'll be honest, the type of people I knew that fit your daughter's description are the ones I knew were on there way to flunking out. At some point all students have to decide how serious they are and buckle down on there own...it's what adults do.

I did this first semester after working a horrible summer job, that was my motivation.

Perhaps some first hand experience working an unpleasant or back breaking job would serve to motivate?
100% agree. Young college student needs to grow up and fast.

I insisted on minimum of 3.1+ GPA for continued parental financial assistance putting 4 kids thru college. We did not get involved in day to day monitoring of student work or activities. Our student was expected to manage their own time, their work schedule, and their own effort- just like a responsible young adult should be doing in that phase of their life.

Our kids were also expected to work a small amount of part-time (and definitely full time in summer) with those funds for pocket money and to fund any social activities. Parents were no longer paying for play time.

I am astounded at the folks that expect and fund their kids to take 5 and even 6 years to graduate a 4 year degree. We mandated and clearly set expectation of maximum of 4 years of parental assistance. One of the kids took an extra semester and she took out a student loan to fund 100% of the extra cost of that semester. Life can be uncaring and difficult for those that don't prepare, and don't have a minimum amount of discipline, and ability to focus and work hard. The sooner your student learns this life lesson the better it will be for them and the better productive citizen they will become.

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celia
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Location: SoCal

Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by celia » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:50 pm

Does DD take responsibility for her own decisions? Is this where SHE decided to go? Did SHE select a major? Or are you doing these things for her?

If you keep checking up on her and reminding her to do things, what will happen when she gets a job? Are you going to wake her up every day to go to work? Are you going to make her a lunch to take? Are you going to do her laundry?

Sounds like it is past time for a heart-to-heart talk with the parents. Possibly, she doesn't even want to be in college but is going because it is expected. Find out what her goals are, career-wise and other. What progress has she made towards these goals since high school finished?

hogfanboy
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by hogfanboy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:58 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:28 pm
hogfanboy wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:12 pm
I have a child that sounds similar. He just started his 3rd year and I think he is finally getting to the responsibility of what we would like to see as a freshman. He has about 42 credit hours after 2 years, so he is behind but moving forward.
1) we have the funds and, to plan for 6 years of college.
2) The college degree may not have the value it once had. but I think college still has the value of one of the safest ways to "launch" you child.
3) Take my views given 1) and 2). some may not have the money or soft launch view.
4) Make sure on the last day to drop classes, she does an honest review of where she is at and drop the ones she will not pass. Probation may decide her college future for her. My son's school has a policy of 2 semesters of overall gpa below 2.0 and your gone. You have already spent the money a "F" does no good for anybody.
5) If there are core classes that she is weak on, take it during the summer at a community college. My son is weak on math and because of his placement score he was required to take 2 classes before he even got to a math class that counted to a degree. Doing some search and asking questions I found a school that didn't have a math placement test. and they had a summer math class that could meet(transfer) the core math class for graduation. It was a 4 week class. I basically took it with him and it was a tough month, but he feels much better now knowing he is done with math.
Six years of college??? No wonder the universities are making a killing.

"Seven years of college down the drain..."

-TheDDC
LOL good job Bluto,
didn't Bluto end up being a Senator.
It's not so much the degree now, it is about the launch of a child that is not quite as mature as others his age at the end of HS
Yes I have the good fortune to spend $20k the next few years to launch him.
Bottom line after 2 years, I look at how my son has matured it was worth it, he is only 20.
who knows "might as well join the peace corps"

FireProof
Posts: 593
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by FireProof » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:26 pm

I almost never went to class in college, and didn't learn a whole lot, but got decent grades and got where I needed for my career.

The truth is, nowadays, especially at top schools,the classes are a formality (except possibly in a few engineering majors) - all the value added comes from the credentialing of the selection process and, yes, the networking of all that socializing. Grade inflation is rampant, and the scale is so compressed (A- averages at many schools like Brown and Stanford!) that its difficult for recruiters to get much information out of GPA. Having gone to some wild keggers with future startup founders, corporate contacts, investment banking MDs, law firm partners, etc. will prove much more valuable.

If she's not turning in graded assignments, then it starts to look more worrying.

smitcat
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by smitcat » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm

FireProof wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:26 pm
I almost never went to class in college, and didn't learn a whole lot, but got decent grades and got where I needed for my career.

The truth is, nowadays, especially at top schools,the classes are a formality (except possibly in a few engineering majors) - all the value added comes from the credentialing of the selection process and, yes, the networking of all that socializing. Grade inflation is rampant, and the scale is so compressed (A- averages at many schools like Brown and Stanford!) that its difficult for recruiters to get much information out of GPA. Having gone to some wild keggers with future startup founders, corporate contacts, investment banking MDs, law firm partners, etc. will prove much more valuable.

If she's not turning in graded assignments, then it starts to look more worrying.
In the OP's case his daughter is targeting a speech pathology career - it will make a huge difference is she cannot get core class grades, get accepted to a grad program , be successful in the clinical assignments and get at least an 82 on the praxis.
None of those will be inflated.

luckybamboo
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by luckybamboo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:19 pm

celia wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:50 pm
Does DD take responsibility for her own decisions? Is this where SHE decided to go? Did SHE select a major? Or are you doing these things for her?
It was absolutely her choice to go to this college. she chose one major and decided against it after getting a summer job that she loved so much and decided to pursue speech pathology for kids. we didn't impose any of our views on her choices. Only demand we have that she try hard and give her best.
If you keep checking up on her and reminding her to do things, what will happen when she gets a job? Are you going to wake her up every day to go to work? Are you going to make her a lunch to take? Are you going to do her laundry?
I do not keep checking on her. I have never set an alarm for her since past 2 years and let her be late for work/school at times. She quickly corrected that behavior. She is managing all the other chores at the dorm as well.
Sounds like it is past time for a heart-to-heart talk with the parents. Possibly, she doesn't even want to be in college but is going because it is expected. Find out what her goals are, career-wise and other. What progress has she made towards these goals since high school finished?
No, she loves the college and is very happy there. It's just that she is clueless about how to manage her assignments etc. She is one of those individuals who chooses 'flight' (fight or flight) when presented with stressful situations

WillRetire
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by WillRetire » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:21 pm

Skipping classes frequently? That is irresponsible and a waste of money. Why go to college at all?

As the parent who is presumably paying for college, you need to set the ground rules, and enforce them. If she breaks your ground rules, then she pays for college herself. I would include good grades as part of the ground rules, plus no skipping classes unless sick. (Hungover or high don't qualify.)

Even if it were possible to get passing grades while skipping classes, is that what you are paying for? Tuition, room & board for the "college experience"?

Isn't this about training for a career? If so, then she needs to act the part. Or pull the funding.

Time for tough love. You won't get another chance to set her on a productive path.

WillRetire
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by WillRetire » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:30 pm

Adding to my previous post... regarding tough love... without taking action NOW, she is at risk of getting into serious trouble in life (pregnant, hooking up with wrong type of person, on drugs or other addiction). Think it can't happen to her? Pick up a newspaper.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. There are hundreds or thousands of sad stories about young adults who are aimless. Some came from difficult home situations, or struggled with mental health issues, or had every advantage but drifted through college with nothing to show for it but a lot of debt.

texasdiver
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Location: Vancouver WA

Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by texasdiver » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:50 pm

Went through something similar with our oldest who is now a college junior and doing well.

She was always an average student in HS with mostly Bs in core classes and As in electives so about a 3.4 GPA. Her first semester of college was something of a shock in that you are so much more responsible for your own work with less adults looking over your shoulder. She was doing a lot of greek socializing and her grades dropped down into the C range. All my lectures basically went in one ear and out the other. What actually lit a fire under her butt was her sorority. Apparently they all compete for academic "honors" on campus which is determined by the aggregate GPA of each sorority. Our daughter was not keeping up her end and she got put on "academic probation" by her sorority (not the school) which meant she was prohibited from attending any social events and was assigned a senior "tutor" whom she had to meet with frequently to make sure she was organized and getting to all her classes and getting any additional help that she needed.

There were lots of tears involved in her phone calls home to my wife as the shame of it all was just mortifying. But the peer pressure turned out to be incredibly effective and she got her butt in gear and brought her GPA back up to at least where it was in HS so she could start going back to social events again. My wife and I know laugh about how those ridiculous sorority fees turned out to have been the best money we spent in college.

I don't know how to apply that to your situation except to say that sometimes peer pressure is a much greater motivator than anything parents can say or do. I was a straight-A student in college and completely scornful of the ridiculous Greek life nonsense that I took no part in. But for our daughter it turns out to have been a good thing and a whole lot cheaper than paying 2x for her to take the same classes again.

KlangFool
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Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by KlangFool » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:57 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:19 pm
celia wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:50 pm
Does DD take responsibility for her own decisions? Is this where SHE decided to go? Did SHE select a major? Or are you doing these things for her?
It was absolutely her choice to go to this college. she chose one major and decided against it after getting a summer job that she loved so much and decided to pursue speech pathology for kids. we didn't impose any of our views on her choices. Only demand we have that she try hard and give her best.
If you keep checking up on her and reminding her to do things, what will happen when she gets a job? Are you going to wake her up every day to go to work? Are you going to make her a lunch to take? Are you going to do her laundry?
I do not keep checking on her. I have never set an alarm for her since past 2 years and let her be late for work/school at times. She quickly corrected that behavior. She is managing all the other chores at the dorm as well.
Sounds like it is past time for a heart-to-heart talk with the parents. Possibly, she doesn't even want to be in college but is going because it is expected. Find out what her goals are, career-wise and other. What progress has she made towards these goals since high school finished?
No, she loves the college and is very happy there. It's just that she is clueless about how to manage her assignments etc. She is one of those individuals who chooses 'flight' (fight or flight) when presented with stressful situations
luckybamboo,

<< No, she loves the college and is very happy there. It's just that she is clueless about how to manage her assignments etc. She is one of those individuals who chooses 'flight' (fight or flight) when presented with stressful situations >>

The employer would not care why someone does not show up for work or turn in their assignment. If she does not learn this now, how could she hold any job? Did she work at any real job at all?

You have a choice. You pay for her education. You either enforce your rule and make sure that she treats this seriously as a job. Or, she would learn this much later and cost you a lot more money and more serious consequences.

Stop making excuses for her. It does not help her.

KlangFool

WillRetire
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:01 am

Re: College Student Performance Issues

Post by WillRetire » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:23 pm

luckybamboo wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:44 pm
Bacchus01 wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:03 pm
Struggled in HS. Why is she in college?
Please don't give unhelpful comments. She is a smart kid struggling to cope with unstructured study life. The fact that a very good university gave her admission is the proof of her potential. We as parents want to help her develop skills to overcome the difficulties that come with ADHD and meet her potential.
Your response indicates (1) denial of a problem, and (2) your role as an enabler. Answering your request for advice appears to be a waste of time.

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