Car predicament

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Thevillianinbrown
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Car predicament

Post by Thevillianinbrown » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:59 pm

Hello Bogleheads,

A family member brought this up to me. He has a Kia Forte 2012 with a blown engine. Doing some quick research this car has had issues along with other Kia models with the same engine. It should have been recalled but wasn't. It seems like his options are limited. He's thinking about paying the $5,000 left on his loan or filing bankruptcy. Which I said will stay on his credit report for 7-10 years. I advised him to talk to an attorney. Is there is anything else to do? Sounds like people who try to approach this with Kia, get stonewalled. The lemon law here in MN doesn't seem like it would help either. I mentioned social media and talking with the dealership. He has had the car for about 2.5 years with 70,000 miles on it. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

T.V.I.B

runner3081
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Re: Car predicament

Post by runner3081 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:07 pm

Blown engine is not a real thing. What really happened?

Did he do all of the maintenance (did the previous owner)?

Did he get a pre-purchase inspection?

Does he have any cash? How much is a replacement engine?

How many miles when he bought it? Did he buy it from a dealer?

I am not sure I see any fault with Kia. It is a 9-year old car, afterall.

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Car predicament

Post by neilpilot » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:12 am

Thevillianinbrown wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:59 pm
Hello Bogleheads,

A family member brought this up to me. He has a Kia Forte 2012 with a blown engine. Doing some quick research this car has had issues along with other Kia models with the same engine. It should have been recalled but wasn't.
A "blown engine", whatever that is, doesn't sound like a safety issue that would fall under the NTSB Recall guidelines. "A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards."

TallBoy29er
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Re: Car predicament

Post by TallBoy29er » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:17 am

Thevillianinbrown wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:59 pm

He's thinking about paying the $5,000 left on his loan or filing bankruptcy.
First, this sucks, no doubt.

I think your advice should be to pay off the debt, and move on. Sounds like you've advised on the downside of bankruptcy. That seems like a very extreme action with significant consequences if he can pay this off, even if it hurts.

GmanJeff
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Re: Car predicament

Post by GmanJeff » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:35 am

Sell the car for scrap and pay off the loan, unless paying for repairs would yield a better financial outcome in terms of either being able to sell the car for more money than the cost of the repairs and/or the ability to continue using the car and deferring the cost of a replacement.

Frankly, bankruptcy to avoid a $5K car loan is patently idiotic. The long-term effect on the debtor will far outweigh the short term benefit of avoiding paying a relatively trivial and legitimate debt.

researcher
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Re: Car predicament

Post by researcher » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:46 am

Thevillianinbrown wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:59 pm
He has a Kia Forte 2012 with a blown engine.
It seems like his options are limited. He's thinking about paying the $5,000 left on his loan or filing bankruptcy.
Is there is anything else to do?
Why doesn't he just repair the car and keep driving it?

Then just continue along (and pay the car loan) as he would have before the engine blew.

lazydavid
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Re: Car predicament

Post by lazydavid » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:11 am

I'd repair it also. A working engine for the Forte appears to cost anywhere between $1000 and $1700, depending on condition and mileage:

https://www.ebay.com/b/Complete-Engines ... bn_1418289

I would think a local mechanic would be able to swap it for less than a grand. Even going on the high side, spending $8k for a usable car ($3k repair plus $5k remaining on the loan) is likely preferable to spending $5k on nothing.

Given the nature of the failures I'm reading about, post-repair I would change the oil more frequently than the manufacturer recommends, and use a high-quality synthetic (Amsoil, Penzoil Platinum, Liqui Moly, Mobil 1, etc) to try to protect from the type of wear that these engines seem to be prone to.

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deanbrew
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Re: Car predicament

Post by deanbrew » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm

Kia and Hyundai cars have a 10 year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, I believe. It sounds like this car is 6-7 years old with 70k miles. Are you certain the warranty doesn't cover the "blown" engine?

Even if not for some reason, lazydavid brings up a good point that repairing might cost significantly less than $5,000. And the $5,000 loan figure, while important, isn't nearly as important as what the value of the car is compared to the cost of the repair.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Car predicament

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:21 pm

deanbrew wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm
Kia and Hyundai cars have a 10 year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty........
To the original purchaser. If you buy one used, you get zip.

I'd also ask an independent mechanic for his opinion on replace with junkyard engine. He's sort of stuck with the car. Say he files bankruptcy and the court finds that he has to pay 10% of his income until the car loan is paid off? He'll be far worse off, I'd think.
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LawEgr1
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Re: Car predicament

Post by LawEgr1 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:37 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:21 pm
deanbrew wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm
Kia and Hyundai cars have a 10 year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty........
To the original purchaser. If you buy one used, you get zip.

I'd also ask an independent mechanic for his opinion on replace with junkyard engine. He's sort of stuck with the car. Say he files bankruptcy and the court finds that he has to pay 10% of his income until the car loan is paid off? He'll be far worse off, I'd think.
Correct. Hyundai / Kia are a meh used car buy due to this, IMO.

Hyundai / Kias back in 2011-2015 with their GDI theta engines (and maybe beyond) have had issues with engines locking. However, the warranty relieves lots of this pressure as long as you are willing to keep track of your maintenance throughout. Lots of stories of engine replacements.

Supposedly, the manufacturing of the engines has been changed to reduce or eliminate the issue.

Car complaint websites indicate a clear trend downward from 2011-2012 in terms of the number of these issues.


I'm not trying to be a pushover, but my approach would be:

1) I bought a used car, this is my risk, I should've understood the warranties / pros / cons, etc.
2) It isn't a lemon
3)Get it repaired since $ is a driver here and you'll get good life out of the new engine.

bloom2708
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Re: Car predicament

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:03 am

Not a bankruptcy scenario.

Buy a used engine (check eBay and local salvage yards). A 2012 Forte should still be in good shape body-wise.

Ah, the joys of cars.
"We are not here to please, but to provoke thoughtfulness." --Unknown Boglehead

CFM300
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Re: Car predicament

Post by CFM300 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:52 pm

If they no longer want the car, replace/repair the engine and then sell the car and buy something else.

CarMax is selling a 2012 Kia Forte with 120,000 miles for $10k, so your family member should be able to sell theirs for at least the $5k balance of the loan.

Casper
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Re: Car predicament

Post by Casper » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:12 pm

LawEgr1 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:37 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:21 pm
deanbrew wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm
Kia and Hyundai cars have a 10 year / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty........
To the original purchaser. If you buy one used, you get zip.

I'd also ask an independent mechanic for his opinion on replace with junkyard engine. He's sort of stuck with the car. Say he files bankruptcy and the court finds that he has to pay 10% of his income until the car loan is paid off? He'll be far worse off, I'd think.
Correct. Hyundai / Kia are a meh used car buy due to this, IMO.

Hyundai / Kias back in 2011-2015 with their GDI theta engines (and maybe beyond) have had issues with engines locking. However, the warranty relieves lots of this pressure as long as you are willing to keep track of your maintenance throughout. Lots of stories of engine replacements.
The 10 year/100,000 mile warranty does in fact carry over if you have a CPO Kia. Also, Kia extended the warranty for the engine locking issue to 15 years/unlimited miles for vehicles and model years affected by that issue, for all owners (regardless of CPO status).

Unfortunately I don't think the Forte is part of that recall yet. But if they do add the Forte to the recall, then the family member might be able to get reimbursed for replacing the engine, as that's also part of the recall program (owners who replaced the engine at their own cost can submit receipts to Kia and get reimbursed).

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lthenderson
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Re: Car predicament

Post by lthenderson » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:27 pm

CFM300 wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:52 pm
If they no longer want the car, replace/repair the engine and then sell the car and buy something else.
+1

Google shows one can purchase a new engine for about $2k and one could probably get a rebuilt used one for less than half that.

Thevillianinbrown
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:23 pm

Re: Car predicament

Post by Thevillianinbrown » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:39 pm

Bogleheads,

Thanks to all who replied. I was able to use the information you all gave me to help aid him in making an informed decision based on facts and not emotions, which hard to do when you are under stress. My cousin has decided to have my mechanic swap an engine for him. It will be below $3,500 with parts/labor.

Once again, great work Boglehead crew!

T.V.I.B

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