Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

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Watty
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by Watty » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:08 am

wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best.
The OP only drives about 2,000 miles a year.

If they actually enjoyed driving the BMW they would put a lot more miles on the car than that even if they only drove it on the weekend.

mmmodem
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by mmmodem » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:21 am

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am
Wow! Everyone is so fixated on those warranty packages....and you say not to get one.....what happens if the navigation on that things goes out? That is going to cost fortune to fix.....or I could just NOT fix it at all I suppose......
The Boglehead way is to buy value.

If the navigation goes out, you can also choose to repair it with cash. If you you spend $5000 on the warranty, you are guaranteeing you'll pay $5000 in repairs. That is sunk costs right there if you choose the warranty. Dealerships sell warranties to make money. Their accountants have already determined that a typical owner of your vehicle will have less than $5000 in repairs plus profit to sell the warranty to you. However, as I said, Bogleheads purchase value. If there is value in peace of mind that you don't have to pay more than $5000 in repairs, then you buy it. I personally sleep better with an extra $5000 in my pocket and knowing that BMW knows I won't be spending that kind of money to repair the vehicle.

You mentioned being trapped with high repairs bills if you keep the BMW. Why would you be trapped? What kind of damage would render the vehicle completely worthless that insurance wouldn't cover? You are not trapped even if you are extremely unlucky and get a $10,000 repair bill. You can choose to sell the vehicle as-is which will still have some value for those with skills to repair it themselves.

The better financial choice is obviously the used Civic but you have to look at your own personal usage. People like to say, "I'll drive this car 10 years until it's broken." The reality is few ever keep their cars more than 6 years. BMW owners such as yourself even shorter. It would be silly to sell your BMW to buy a brand new Civic only to hate it a year later when you realize you make enough money and deserve to drive a better car. You'll come full circle to buy another expensive BMW. How long did you drive your previous vehicles and what kind of vehicles were they? That might be an clue into your own tendencies.

BTW, your $22k BMW seems a little low. $27k seems about a right for a low mileage 3 year old 328.

runner3081
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by runner3081 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:23 am

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:23 pm
runner3081 wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:15 pm
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 pm
Buy out BMW
Pay estimated 12K (or more) in upkeep (yearly oil, new sets of tires, new brakes, new plugs)

Buy new car (like a reliable Honda Civic)
Pay estimated 3K in maintenance
I think that is too extreme of a difference, having owned a number of BMW's in the past. Maintenance costs aren't really much more, assuming you stay away from a dealership.

With that said, I would go with option 3.

These are just estimates......if you've owned several beamers than you would know better than me......are they expensive to keep up if I planned to keep this for the next 7 years (10 total)?
There is not much difference at all. The 328i is really just a normal car (sorry - I mean, some of the new Camry's have more HP :)). I would add maybe a 8-12% difference in maintenance/repair costs over that timeframe - from the small increase in labor costs and parts. Obviously, there are a wide range of outcomes that range from less spending on the BMW to significantly more, but I think you will be pretty happy with the small price difference, on average. There are stories on the internet about costly BMW's, but you don't see the... "I had no issues" posts, because, well, no one cares.

If we were talking about an M, or 7 series, it might be a different story :)

NextMil
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by NextMil » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am
NextMil wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:42 am
Keep it, but don’t buy any of the bs warranties or maintanence packages. Find a good Bmw Indy mechanic.

Enjoy your ultimate driving machine.

Also, car max is wholesale price. $27k for a 16 328i with such low mileage seems reasonable especially if you have packages on it.
Wow! Everyone is so fixated on those warranty packages....and you say not to get one.....what happens if the navigation on that things goes out? That is going to cost fortune to fix.....or I could just NOT fix it at all I suppose......
Its because they are not worth it. You have a limited window for you to recoup your cost of paying the difference. I just bought a new to me 335 xdrive and declined all of it. They put new tires on the car and wanted to sell me a two year warranty on the tires for the cost of replacing all of them. No offense BMW, and call me crazy, but I think I will take my chances.

stimulacra
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by stimulacra » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:13 pm

328i is one of the most basic BMWs available in the U.S.

This is not a bad thing. It's a global model and the F30 is a global platform. Any mechanic that specializes in German cars, or any BMW service technician will know this chassis inside and out and can do basic maintenance items in their sleep. I wouldn't get too worried about expensive repairs if you were to buy used in the future.

The engine, BMW's N20 i4 2.0, is a well-sorted engine that is used in millions of cars around the world. Not as venerable as the inline six but it's a bread and butter item for the brand.

I am curious now. What cars did you drive before the BMW? What type of driving do you do outside of your commute? Weekend? Social? Recreational?

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:22 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:25 am
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 pm
Hi all, I am 53, take-home about 42K, unmarried, no children….what would you do?
—————————————-
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:16 am
I have about half a million including an emergency fund of 35k.
You are doing fine but something like a layoff or some other setback could put you in a big bind for retirement so you need to be careful with your money.

There is no way that you can justify a BMW in any form, new, used, leased, or purchased. If cars were your passion in life and you would use it a lot then you might be able justify it as your one big splurge but it is obvious that you are not a "car guy(or girl)" since you only drive about two thousand miles a year.

There was one week this summer when I put that many miles on my car on a big road trip that I took.

I think you need to just turn it in at the end of the lease and buy a modest car that will get you around town when you need it.
great advice. I got it out of my system and am ready to move on...

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:24 pm

stimulacra wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:13 pm
328i is one of the most basic BMWs available in the U.S.

This is not a bad thing. It's a global model and the F30 is a global platform. Any mechanic that specializes in German cars, or any BMW service technician will know this chassis inside and out and can do basic maintenance items in their sleep. I wouldn't get too worried about expensive repairs if you were to buy used in the future.

The engine, BMW's N20 i4 2.0, is a well-sorted engine that is used in millions of cars around the world. Not as venerable as the inline six but it's a bread and butter item for the brand.

I am curious now. What cars did you drive before the BMW? What type of driving do you do outside of your commute? Weekend? Social? Recreational?
I currently do not do much driving at all.....I work full time and am in grad school (went back in an older age). I could walk to work, the gym, church, and the grocery store. I actually could get on fine without a car. But.......the freedom of having a car ..........thinking.......

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:25 pm

NextMil wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:52 pm
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am
NextMil wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:42 am
Keep it, but don’t buy any of the bs warranties or maintanence packages. Find a good Bmw Indy mechanic.

Enjoy your ultimate driving machine.

Also, car max is wholesale price. $27k for a 16 328i with such low mileage seems reasonable especially if you have packages on it.
Wow! Everyone is so fixated on those warranty packages....and you say not to get one.....what happens if the navigation on that things goes out? That is going to cost fortune to fix.....or I could just NOT fix it at all I suppose......
Its because they are not worth it. You have a limited window for you to recoup your cost of paying the difference. I just bought a new to me 335 xdrive and declined all of it. They put new tires on the car and wanted to sell me a two year warranty on the tires for the cost of replacing all of them. No offense BMW, and call me crazy, but I think I will take my chances.
thanks for the explanation....

researcher
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by researcher » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm

wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:31 pm

mmmodem wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:21 am
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am
Wow! Everyone is so fixated on those warranty packages....and you say not to get one.....what happens if the navigation on that things goes out? That is going to cost fortune to fix.....or I could just NOT fix it at all I suppose......
The Boglehead way is to buy value.

If the navigation goes out, you can also choose to repair it with cash. If you you spend $5000 on the warranty, you are guaranteeing you'll pay $5000 in repairs. That is sunk costs right there if you choose the warranty. Dealerships sell warranties to make money. Their accountants have already determined that a typical owner of your vehicle will have less than $5000 in repairs plus profit to sell the warranty to you. However, as I said, Bogleheads purchase value. If there is value in peace of mind that you don't have to pay more than $5000 in repairs, then you buy it. I personally sleep better with an extra $5000 in my pocket and knowing that BMW knows I won't be spending that kind of money to repair the vehicle.

You mentioned being trapped with high repairs bills if you keep the BMW. Why would you be trapped? What kind of damage would render the vehicle completely worthless that insurance wouldn't cover? You are not trapped even if you are extremely unlucky and get a $10,000 repair bill. You can choose to sell the vehicle as-is which will still have some value for those with skills to repair it themselves.

The better financial choice is obviously the used Civic but you have to look at your own personal usage. People like to say, "I'll drive this car 10 years until it's broken." The reality is few ever keep their cars more than 6 years. BMW owners such as yourself even shorter. It would be silly to sell your BMW to buy a brand new Civic only to hate it a year later when you realize you make enough money and deserve to drive a better car. You'll come full circle to buy another expensive BMW. How long did you drive your previous vehicles and what kind of vehicles were they? That might be an clue into your own tendencies.

BTW, your $22k BMW seems a little low. $27k seems about a right for a low mileage 3 year old 328.
Thanks for the tips.....I think somehow I feel like the leased car is MY car, but it was NEVER my car. So if I look at this from purely a business/money standpoint, could some other 2016 BMW do just fine (like a pre-owned certified with the same miles) for 21 or 22k INSTEAD of keeping mine and paying 27 (maybe plus 5 for the warranty).

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
Thanks for the tips all. I am learning a lot from the discussion.

stimulacra
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Location: Houston

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by stimulacra » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:24 pm
stimulacra wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:13 pm
328i is one of the most basic BMWs available in the U.S.

This is not a bad thing. It's a global model and the F30 is a global platform. Any mechanic that specializes in German cars, or any BMW service technician will know this chassis inside and out and can do basic maintenance items in their sleep. I wouldn't get too worried about expensive repairs if you were to buy used in the future.

The engine, BMW's N20 i4 2.0, is a well-sorted engine that is used in millions of cars around the world. Not as venerable as the inline six but it's a bread and butter item for the brand.

I am curious now. What cars did you drive before the BMW? What type of driving do you do outside of your commute? Weekend? Social? Recreational?
I currently do not do much driving at all.....I work full time and am in grad school (went back in an older age). I could walk to work, the gym, church, and the grocery store. I actually could get on fine without a car. But.......the freedom of having a car ..........thinking.......
You might be a good candidate for Mr Money Moustahce's philosophy of car ownership ;)

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05 ... r-or-more/

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10 ... commuting/

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/01 ... -for-free/

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:35 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:08 am
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best.
The OP only drives about 2,000 miles a year.

If they actually enjoyed driving the BMW they would put a lot more miles on the car than that even if they only drove it on the weekend.

Well, I work full time and I'm in grad school.....I just do not have time to drive.......BUT I do appreciate your feedback very much and I'm learning quite a deal in the discussion.

JustWantToGetItRight
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by JustWantToGetItRight » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm

stimulacra wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm
JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:24 pm
stimulacra wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:13 pm
328i is one of the most basic BMWs available in the U.S.

This is not a bad thing. It's a global model and the F30 is a global platform. Any mechanic that specializes in German cars, or any BMW service technician will know this chassis inside and out and can do basic maintenance items in their sleep. I wouldn't get too worried about expensive repairs if you were to buy used in the future.

The engine, BMW's N20 i4 2.0, is a well-sorted engine that is used in millions of cars around the world. Not as venerable as the inline six but it's a bread and butter item for the brand.

I am curious now. What cars did you drive before the BMW? What type of driving do you do outside of your commute? Weekend? Social? Recreational?
I currently do not do much driving at all.....I work full time and am in grad school (went back in an older age). I could walk to work, the gym, church, and the grocery store. I actually could get on fine without a car. But.......the freedom of having a car ..........thinking.......
You might be a good candidate for Mr Money Moustahce's philosophy of car ownership ;)

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05 ... r-or-more/

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10 ... commuting/

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2016/01 ... -for-free/

These were great recommendations....loved it......

Olemiss540
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by Olemiss540 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:30 am

You can easily buy a 2013 or 2014 3 series with 50k miles for 10-12k ALL DAY LONG. Given how many miles you drive, I would be surprised if you had any maintenance issues at all over the next 10 years. These cars may not be appliances like Honda or Toyotas, but repairs can be reasonable if you do it yourself or find an independant, trustworthy local mechanic.

Found many M3s, 335is, X5s for the 12k range with around 50-60k miles. They have all run past 100k without much effort at all.
I hold index funds because I do not overestimate my ability to pick stocks OR stock pickers.

CorradoJr
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by CorradoJr » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:40 am

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:36 am
NextMil wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:42 am
Keep it, but don’t buy any of the bs warranties or maintanence packages. Find a good Bmw Indy mechanic.

Enjoy your ultimate driving machine.

Also, car max is wholesale price. $27k for a 16 328i with such low mileage seems reasonable especially if you have packages on it.
Wow! Everyone is so fixated on those warranty packages....and you say not to get one.....what happens if the navigation on that things goes out? That is going to cost fortune to fix.....or I could just NOT fix it at all I suppose......
I also have a 2016 3 series. It has a function that tells you when you need an oil change, brake fluid, and front and rear brakes, etc. (Vehicle Info, then Vehicle Status, then Service Required). What does it currently say in terms of “miles left” on the brakes? I currently have 25k miles on the car and it still says I have 19,000 miles to go. I do about 80% city driving too. I am also on my same (first) set of tires and have had three oil changes.

You are way over estimating the cost of repairs for driving 2,500 miles a year. You do not need an extended warranty for so few miles driven. As others have said, find a local independent mechanic and budget a little per month for maintenance in your savings.

Really curious as to your brake pad life left, pleae let us know.

michaeljc70
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by michaeljc70 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:29 am

I'm not sure why buying a car for thousands over the market value is even an option.

Texanbybirth
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:35 am

Option 3. The BMW is way too much (financially) car for you, with your income, if you have to ask.

Go test-drive a Civic before you make your decision, though, to make sure you won't hate driving it. I don't see how you could, what with only driving 2k miles per year, but still.

NextMil
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by NextMil » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:06 pm

researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
I couldn’t disagree more. A Honda Civic is nowhere near an entry level 3 Series, which is why none of the big boys put them in the same class. This isn’t to offend Honda owners, because I know people love Hondas, but it’s not for the same reason people love BMW.

Who cares how much he drives? By that logic, people could suggest a moped, or even a bicycle.

desiderium
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by desiderium » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:04 pm

JustWantToGetItRight wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:16 am
desiderium wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:39 pm
With your income most would say the BMW is too much car.
But the fact that you are asking the question means you have some insight into this problem, so good for you.
How much cash to you have to purchase a car? I would limit the car to what you can pay for with cash.
After that develop a long range financial plan for retirement, looking carefully at how much you need to save every month.
After that you can make a budget for living expenses, including saving for the next car.
Well that is the thing. While I might not make currently a lot of money, I have about half a million including an emergency fund of 35k. Also, no debt. The way I got there was by being smart, so I decided to do something dumb to treat myself....LOL........It started off as a lease that I was going to turn in after three years......and then.....maybe lease again.......but them I saw that I paid 18k in three years_____I could have bought a car that I could use for another 7 years.......and put the money into Vanguard index funds. But that is the past......so now I want to do something smart again, instead of another dumb move......or let's say.......slightly lavish move.......Thoughts?
Around here your experience is known as "tuition", and many others have paid even more
Budget to keep up your retirement savings
Pay cash from your EF. Get something reliable and appeals to you well enough so temptation doesn't come back too soon
Repay your EF from your cash flow using budgeted monthly amount

ssquared87
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by ssquared87 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 pm

NextMil wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:06 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
I couldn’t disagree more. A Honda Civic is nowhere near an entry level 3 Series, which is why none of the big boys put them in the same class. This isn’t to offend Honda owners, because I know people love Hondas, but it’s not for the same reason people love BMW.

Who cares how much he drives? By that logic, people could suggest a moped, or even a bicycle.
The current gen civic Si is way more fun than the F30 3 series with the 4 cylinder engine that the OP has. I’m a manual transmission RWD BMW fan boy but I wouldn’t touch an F30 with a 10 foot pole. When an Audi A4 tops the 3 series in driving comparisons, you know BMW almost its way. Full disclaimer, I had an E90 and passed on the F30 and went straight to the G30 5 series. I also keep an E36 M3 for the weekend.

visualguy
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by visualguy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:42 am

stimulacra wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:31 pm
If you drive that few miles a year I might consider getting a higher mileage version and/or forgo the extended warranty. The majority of expensive repairs usually correlates with mileage and/or wear and tear drive train components.
I wouldn't bother with the extended warranty either, but I think time also has a considerable effect on cars. Gaskets (such as valve cover) degrade and start leaking with time, rubber parts dry out and become brittle, etc. My impression is that BMWs aren't great at withstanding the effects of time once you get close to a decade or more. Maybe it's an incorrect impression, but that has been my non-scientific impression.

stimulacra
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Location: Houston

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by stimulacra » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:14 am

visualguy wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:42 am
stimulacra wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:31 pm
If you drive that few miles a year I might consider getting a higher mileage version and/or forgo the extended warranty. The majority of expensive repairs usually correlates with mileage and/or wear and tear drive train components.
I wouldn't bother with the extended warranty either, but I think time also has a considerable effect on cars. Gaskets (such as valve cover) degrade and start leaking with time, rubber parts dry out and become brittle, etc. My impression is that BMWs aren't great at withstanding the effects of time once you get close to a decade or more. Maybe it's an incorrect impression, but that has been my non-scientific impression.
I agree that that is a definite issue but he's nowhere close to 10 years on his car. Also valve cover gaskets replacement typically runs $200-600 dollars for German makes across the board. I think almost all of that is labor, the parts are like $20-30. It's annoying for sure but nothing financially catastrophic like drivetrain or powertrain issue, and not something worth contemplating extended warranty for.

NextMil
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Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by NextMil » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:47 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 pm
NextMil wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:06 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
I couldn’t disagree more. A Honda Civic is nowhere near an entry level 3 Series, which is why none of the big boys put them in the same class. This isn’t to offend Honda owners, because I know people love Hondas, but it’s not for the same reason people love BMW.

Who cares how much he drives? By that logic, people could suggest a moped, or even a bicycle.
The current gen civic Si is way more fun than the F30 3 series with the 4 cylinder engine that the OP has. I’m a manual transmission RWD BMW fan boy but I wouldn’t touch an F30 with a 10 foot pole. When an Audi A4 tops the 3 series in driving comparisons, you know BMW almost its way. Full disclaimer, I had an E90 and passed on the F30 and went straight to the G30 5 series. I also keep an E36 M3 for the weekend.
If fun is slower off the line, less torque, and a not as nice interior then I agree. His 3 beats your 5 series tank off the line as well. Sorry, but not buying. I have had two 6 cylinder three series you are talking about, and they are a blast to drive. I had the four cylinder 3 series as a rental, and while I admit it didn't perform as well as the 6, I was surprised at its performance especially coming in with a healthy dose of skepticism about a 4. I know the F30 has been hated on, but I think its largely overblown, especially once you sit down in the cockpit and really give it a fair run.

ssquared87
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 am

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by ssquared87 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:44 am

NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:47 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 pm
NextMil wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:06 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm
wabbajack wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:46 am
Suggestions for a Honda Civic for a person who enjoys driving a BMW are unhelpful at best. Once you get behind the wheel of a German car with balls, it's hard to go back to driving less exciting cars. Speaking from personal experience.
Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
I couldn’t disagree more. A Honda Civic is nowhere near an entry level 3 Series, which is why none of the big boys put them in the same class. This isn’t to offend Honda owners, because I know people love Hondas, but it’s not for the same reason people love BMW.

Who cares how much he drives? By that logic, people could suggest a moped, or even a bicycle.
The current gen civic Si is way more fun than the F30 3 series with the 4 cylinder engine that the OP has. I’m a manual transmission RWD BMW fan boy but I wouldn’t touch an F30 with a 10 foot pole. When an Audi A4 tops the 3 series in driving comparisons, you know BMW almost its way. Full disclaimer, I had an E90 and passed on the F30 and went straight to the G30 5 series. I also keep an E36 M3 for the weekend.
If fun is slower off the line, less torque, and a not as nice interior then I agree. His 3 beats your 5 series tank off the line as well. Sorry, but not buying. I have had two 6 cylinder three series you are talking about, and they are a blast to drive. I had the four cylinder 3 series as a rental, and while I admit it didn't perform as well as the 6, I was surprised at its performance especially coming in with a healthy dose of skepticism about a 4. I know the F30 has been hated on, but I think its largely overblown, especially once you sit down in the cockpit and really give it a fair run.
Fast and fun are two different things. An MX-5 is slower than a 328/330 and has less torque but can get around more technical road tracks faster. The F30 surely is quick, but the suspension is not on par with what BMW usually puts out nor does the handling provide the right amount of feedback. Turn in isn’t as sharp as I’d expect, bump steer is noticeable mid corner etc.

I don’t particularly care about off the line...I’m not 16 so I don’t race people from stoplight to stoplight.

The cheap Rubbermaid bargain basement interior doesn’t help either. I’ve had the F30 340 m-sports on a few overnight test drives trying to convince myself to get it but I just couldn’t do it. One of them was even a manual.

Read the reviews of the preliminary drive of the next 3 series that will be released in 2 weeks. BMW flew a bunch of writers out to Spain to prove they fixed the issues with the F30. Judging by the write ups it seems the next gen 3 will be worthy of the ultimate driving machine tagline once again. The new variable damping passive dampers is a pretty clever advancement.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/20 ... dan-driven

Aside from that OP, the $5k warranty is a complete waste of money

NextMil
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by NextMil » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am

ssquared87 wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:44 am
NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:47 am
ssquared87 wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 pm
NextMil wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:06 pm
researcher wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:30 pm


Actually, such a suggestion is extremely helpful, considering the OP...
- only takes home $42K/yr
- only drives ~2500mi/yr (6x fewer miles than the average driver)
- himself suggested buying a Civic in 2 of the 3 options he lays out

Besides, his BMW experience is driving an F30 generation 328i, which is a low point for the 3 series. I'd hardly call it a "German car with balls."
I'd say a 2018 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T or Civic Si would suit him just fine.
I couldn’t disagree more. A Honda Civic is nowhere near an entry level 3 Series, which is why none of the big boys put them in the same class. This isn’t to offend Honda owners, because I know people love Hondas, but it’s not for the same reason people love BMW.

Who cares how much he drives? By that logic, people could suggest a moped, or even a bicycle.
The current gen civic Si is way more fun than the F30 3 series with the 4 cylinder engine that the OP has. I’m a manual transmission RWD BMW fan boy but I wouldn’t touch an F30 with a 10 foot pole. When an Audi A4 tops the 3 series in driving comparisons, you know BMW almost its way. Full disclaimer, I had an E90 and passed on the F30 and went straight to the G30 5 series. I also keep an E36 M3 for the weekend.
If fun is slower off the line, less torque, and a not as nice interior then I agree. His 3 beats your 5 series tank off the line as well. Sorry, but not buying. I have had two 6 cylinder three series you are talking about, and they are a blast to drive. I had the four cylinder 3 series as a rental, and while I admit it didn't perform as well as the 6, I was surprised at its performance especially coming in with a healthy dose of skepticism about a 4. I know the F30 has been hated on, but I think its largely overblown, especially once you sit down in the cockpit and really give it a fair run.
Fast and fun are two different things. An MX-5 is slower than a 328/330 and has less torque but can get around more technical road tracks faster. The F30 surely is quick, but the suspension is not on par with what BMW usually puts out nor does the handling provide the right amount of feedback. Turn in isn’t as sharp as I’d expect, bump steer is noticeable mid corner etc.

I don’t particularly care about off the line...I’m not 16 so I don’t race people from stoplight to stoplight.

The cheap Rubbermaid bargain basement interior doesn’t help either. I’ve had the F30 340 m-sports on a few overnight test drives trying to convince myself to get it but I just couldn’t do it. One of them was even a manual.

Read the reviews of the preliminary drive of the next 3 series that will be released in 2 weeks. BMW flew a bunch of writers out to Spain to prove they fixed the issues with the F30. Judging by the write ups it seems the next gen 3 will be worthy of the ultimate driving machine tagline once again. The new variable damping passive dampers is a pretty clever advancement.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/20 ... dan-driven

Aside from that OP, the $5k warranty is a complete waste of money
You are comparing an Mazda Miata to a 3 series??????!!!!!!

researcher
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:21 pm

NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am
You are comparing an Mazda Miata to a 3 series??????!!!!!!
Based on the posts you've made, you seem more concerned with the status/badge a car has than actual driving experience.
According to you, a car is more fun if it is "fast off the line" and has a "nice interior."
And you've scoffed at the idea a Honda or Mazda could be more fun to drive than an F30 328i (they are).

Which is more "fun" to you...
1) Racing from stoplight to stoplight in a car with leather seats?
2) Driving quickly on a technical, twisty road (or racetrack) in a well-balanced car that handles/steers/brakes well with great feel/feedback?

A Miata is unquestionably more fun to drive in scenario #2.

NextMil
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by NextMil » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:44 pm

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:21 pm
NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am
You are comparing an Mazda Miata to a 3 series??????!!!!!!
Based on the posts you've made, you seem more concerned with the status/badge a car has than actual driving experience.
According to you, a car is more fun if it is "fast off the line" and has a "nice interior."
And you've scoffed at the idea a Honda or Mazda could be more fun to drive than an F30 328i (they are).

Which is more "fun" to you...
1) Racing from stoplight to stoplight in a car with leather seats?
2) Driving quickly on a technical, twisty road (or racetrack) in a well-balanced car that handles/steers/brakes well with great feel/feedback?

A Miata is unquestionably more fun to drive in scenario #2.
Not at all. In fact I used to have an MX6 back in the 90s. They don't touch a 3 series in handling, and feel by any stretch of the imagination, and yes that includes appointment. Yes, I enjoy a car that is fast off the line (which is fun, maybe not by your definition), but I am not a 16 year old kid who races at stoplights so you can spare the hyperbole. Moreover, on a track your miata would be in the rearview, which we have already clearly established. Even with the fact that you are trying to compare a two seater to a four door sedan the 3 series still outperforms, especially the 6s. Finally, when you are tokyo drifting out there, imagine an accident. I will take the stronger horsepower, better torque, better interior, and better safety of a BMW over a miata any day of the week.

DanEmmy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by DanEmmy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:43 pm

Your head is in the right place and so is your gut. You've mentioned a few times that you feel guilty or that this somehow isn't right. Well, you're right, it's too much car for your income, end of story. Car's are terrible terrible terrible investments.

For the amount you use, i'd strongly recommend buying an appliance car like a 2-3yr old Toyota Camry. They're great cars, extremely reliable, fuel efficient, cheap insurance, and really good resale value.

My wife and I make good money, but we shared an '08 Camry for for the last fives up until last year when we traded it in for a $22k Golf Sportwagen. It's a tool for commuting and little else. AND this is coming from a card-carrying BMWCCA member with a BMW race car and has owned old BMWs for about 15 years. I love driving BMWs, unfortunately commuting isn't driving! :)

DanEmmy
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by DanEmmy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:51 pm

NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:44 pm
researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:21 pm
NextMil wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am
You are comparing an Mazda Miata to a 3 series??????!!!!!!
Based on the posts you've made, you seem more concerned with the status/badge a car has than actual driving experience.
According to you, a car is more fun if it is "fast off the line" and has a "nice interior."
And you've scoffed at the idea a Honda or Mazda could be more fun to drive than an F30 328i (they are).

Which is more "fun" to you...
1) Racing from stoplight to stoplight in a car with leather seats?
2) Driving quickly on a technical, twisty road (or racetrack) in a well-balanced car that handles/steers/brakes well with great feel/feedback?

A Miata is unquestionably more fun to drive in scenario #2.
Not at all. In fact I used to have an MX6 back in the 90s. They don't touch a 3 series in handling, and feel by any stretch of the imagination, and yes that includes appointment. Yes, I enjoy a car that is fast off the line (which is fun, maybe not by your definition), but I am not a 16 year old kid who races at stoplights so you can spare the hyperbole. Moreover, on a track your miata would be in the rearview, which we have already clearly established. Even with the fact that you are trying to compare a two seater to a four door sedan the 3 series still outperforms, especially the 6s. Finally, when you are tokyo drifting out there, imagine an accident. I will take the stronger horsepower, better torque, better interior, and better safety of a BMW over a miata any day of the week.
Not to get too into this silliness, but a Miata is probably the most fun driver's car ever made. New BMWs are spiffed up commuter cars. I've driven Miatas, most BMWs, and many other cars on race tracks. The two are not even in the same league. A Miata is a track car. It's an enthusiast car. It's a driver's car. It's nothing else. An F30 is an appliance car. That's not to say the BMW isn't a better daily driver. It certainly is bigger, comfier, nicer, safer.

LegoMyEggo
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by LegoMyEggo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:41 pm

I had an older Mercedes when I discovered this forum. The maintenance was costly enough to make me work on it myself which was something new for me. When I got tired of being a mechanic, I gifted it to my brother who is a mechanic. He kept it in working order for my mother to use until he got tired of working on it.

I used Consumer Reports' reliability forecasting to choose my next vehicle, a Kia Soul. It has been two years and I am no longer stressed about the car I'm driving. Thank you BogleHeads, you have changed my life in many ways. This is one of the few positive, helpful forums out there. I return regularly when I begin thinking of doing something rash to get a better perspective.

My step-son's grandmother bought him a 2011 Toyota Corolla in 2016. I explained to the kid that he will have 3 big expenses in life (trans,college,house) and his grandma bought him a reliable car which should last through college. His bio-Dad convinced him to sell it and get an old BMW. The kid went from a car with zero issues to transmission problems and a blown engine. The thing was in the shop more than not. Eventually grandma bought him a 2014 Ford Fusion so he didn't learn any lesson other than grandma will save the day.

I learned my lesson, no newer or older luxury vehicles for me. I make a bit more than the OP and I loved the Mercedes but I just can't afford it. Or I choose to be better off later in life.

dekecarver
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:24 am

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by dekecarver » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:27 am

"My step-son's grandmother bought him a 2011 Toyota Corolla in 2016. I explained to the kid that he will have 3 big expenses in life (trans,college,house)"

You forgot, potentially Marriage :D

novemberrain
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Buy-Out BMW Lease / Buy More Practical New Model / Buy Practical Used Model? Help

Post by novemberrain » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:40 am

Option 3. And if you have your heart set on a BMW, certified pre owned is the way to do it I would say (forgive me) at your income level. BMWs lose value very very fast. A very good 3 yr old 328 can be had for less than 20k from a BMW dealer.

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