$25K car

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airahcaz
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$25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:23 pm

For second car, looking to spend $25K.

Set this threshold cause a new 2018 Honda Accord Sport can be obtained for right around that number, with Honda Sensing Safety, keyless entry, Apple CarPlay, and well, NEW!

Of course there’s the used market, and our family is partial to Lexus:

2014/2015 ES350 FWD
2014/2015 GS350 AWD

So of these three, what’s your vote? What criteria lends to a decision?

10th generation Accord just came out, so used ones won’t come on the market at a decent depreciation for another year. We keep our vehicles for at least a decade or longer as long as repairs don’t outweigh vehicle worth. TIA
Last edited by airahcaz on Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bradshaw1965
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Re: $25K car

Post by bradshaw1965 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:28 pm

I really like the 2018 Honda Accord Sport, purchased one myself and am happy about it. The only downside is that it is model year one for this car and the 1.5 Liter Turbo has had issues in other Honda vehicles in the lineup (long running thread on Bogleheads about the CRV). I feel pretty good about the dice roll myself, but some folks get very nervous about this kind of thing.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:34 pm

bradshaw1965 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:28 pm
I really like the 2018 Honda Accord Sport, purchased one myself and am happy about it. The only downside is that it is model year one for this car and the 1.5 Liter Turbo has had issues in other Honda vehicles in the lineup (long running thread on Bogleheads about the CRV). I feel pretty good about the dice roll myself, but some folks get very nervous about this kind of thing.
Ah thanks. I suppose that’s what new warranty is for?
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sport
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Re: $25K car

Post by sport » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus cars all have very high resale value. Therefore, it is generally better to buy these new because the good late model used ones are almost as expensive as new. Therefore, I would select either an Accord or a Camry, whichever you prefer.

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Watty
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Re: $25K car

Post by Watty » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:04 pm

airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:23 pm
What criteria lends to a decision?
One thing I look at how much it will cost per year while you own it.

For example if you assume that you will keep a new car until it is 10 years old or has 150k miles you can compare that to buying a four year old car with 40k miles and keeping it for 6 years. (You can tweak the numbers for how long you tend to keep cars.

If they both cost $25K and could be sold for $3,000 when it was ten years old then the new car would cost $22,000 in depreciation or $2,200 a year. (22,000/10 years). The four year old car would cost $22,000/6 =$3,667 per year in depreciation.

The new car would also have lower maintenance costs since it would be under warranty.

This is a pretty simplistic but you could make a more complex spreadsheet that includes things like registration and insurance costs.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:05 pm

There’s also the parts and repair costs, which used luxury car will need sooner and cost more than new Honda.
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fortfun
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Re: $25K car

Post by fortfun » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:46 pm

airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:05 pm
There’s also the parts and repair costs, which used luxury car will need sooner and cost more than new Honda.
True for a Mercedes or BMW but probably not with the Lexus (just a Toyota with a fancy finish). Lexus is usually at the top of reliability charts (that I've seen).

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monkey_business
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Re: $25K car

Post by monkey_business » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:53 pm

You might also consider a Mazda 6. I recently test drove a 2018 Accord and a 2018 Mazda 6, and liked the Mazda much better. The Mazda also has the safety features like Honda's, the 6 is getting CarPlay right now, and also has keyless entry. I found the Mazda drives much nicer than the Accord. Better steering, better handling, feels and drives like a much more expensive car. I also think it has a very classy and high quality interior.

Just something to check out if you are not dead set on the Accord or the used Lexus models you mentioned.

stimulacra
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Re: $25K car

Post by stimulacra » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:10 pm

One thing to note with these new advanced driver assistance systems… previously minor repairs on things like windshields and bumpers are a lot more expensive.

Car and Driver did a 10k update on the 2018 Accord and noted $1k to replace a cracked windshield (required OEM glass and additional calibration).

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:13 pm

Hmm, one biggie. The GS does have 300+ HP
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bradshaw1965
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Re: $25K car

Post by bradshaw1965 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:36 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:53 pm
You might also consider a Mazda 6. I recently test drove a 2018 Accord and a 2018 Mazda 6, and liked the Mazda much better. The Mazda also has the safety features like Honda's, the 6 is getting CarPlay right now, and also has keyless entry. I found the Mazda drives much nicer than the Accord. Better steering, better handling, feels and drives like a much more expensive car. I also think it has a very classy and high quality interior.

Just something to check out if you are not dead set on the Accord or the used Lexus models you mentioned.
What trim level did you test drive on the Mazda 6? I really liked the Mazda as well but found I needed to be at a much higher trim level, and higher cost, then the Accord Sport to maximize the difference.

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monkey_business
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Re: $25K car

Post by monkey_business » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:50 pm

bradshaw1965 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:36 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:53 pm
You might also consider a Mazda 6. I recently test drove a 2018 Accord and a 2018 Mazda 6, and liked the Mazda much better. The Mazda also has the safety features like Honda's, the 6 is getting CarPlay right now, and also has keyless entry. I found the Mazda drives much nicer than the Accord. Better steering, better handling, feels and drives like a much more expensive car. I also think it has a very classy and high quality interior.

Just something to check out if you are not dead set on the Accord or the used Lexus models you mentioned.
What trim level did you test drive on the Mazda 6? I really liked the Mazda as well but found I needed to be at a much higher trim level, and higher cost, then the Accord Sport to maximize the difference.
I test drove the 2.0 Touring Accord, and the 6 GT and the Signature. If you are going after the 1.5T Sport, I think its Mazda equivalent is the 6 Touring. The Touring is quite comparable to the 1.5 Sport.

There are also a lot of incentives around, and good deals to be had, at least on the Mazda.

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Re: $25K car

Post by iamlucky13 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:03 pm

airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:13 pm
Hmm, one biggie. The GS does have 300+ HP
And I'm sure the rated fuel mileage is lower, which, like the potentially more expensive repairs, increases your total cost of ownership. And for similar initial purchase price, the remaining useful life should be lower on the used vehicle, so the cost per mile driven will be higher.

Basically, you need to decide whether the higher priority for you is performance and luxury, or cost-effectiveness.

Also, do any of the things you like about Lexus as a brand apply also to Toyota? If so, are you also considering the Camry for a mid-level car. What about a used Acura TSX for as a competitor to the Lexus?

vshun
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Re: $25K car

Post by vshun » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:14 pm

I spent in April 25K after TTL for Honda Accord 2018. Before TTL I think it was 23.5K, with roughly 1.5K being TTL in NoVA area. Very happy with the car and its terrific value with Android Auto, safety features and decent 1.5T engine.
I wanted hybrid but they did niot have it when I needed car and my fuel economy averages 36Mpg in DC suburbs so I am not overly upset.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:16 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:03 pm
airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:13 pm
Hmm, one biggie. The GS does have 300+ HP
Also, do any of the things you like about Lexus as a brand apply also to Toyota? If so, are you also considering the Camry for a mid-level car. What about a used Acura TSX for as a competitor to the Lexus?
I’d rather the Accord Sport over 2018 Camry SE. I know the TSX, but haven’t really compared it as it seems smaller than ES/GS and like Lexus over Acura
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dknightd
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Re: $25K car

Post by dknightd » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:24 pm

My wife has already decided she wants a Honda HRV as her next car. I'm not sure how she decided that without actually driving one. When the time comes I'll suggest she drive the other options. My past experience is buying new often does not cost much more than buying used. Especially if you plan to keep it for many years. I suggest you drive your options. Then decide which one you like more

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:27 pm

vshun wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:14 pm
I spent in April 25K after TTL for Honda Accord 2018. Before TTL I think it was 23.5K, with roughly 1.5K being TTL in NoVA area. Very happy with the car and its terrific value with Android Auto, safety features and decent 1.5T engine.
I wanted hybrid but they did niot have it when I needed car and my fuel economy averages 36Mpg in DC suburbs so I am not overly upset.
23.5 before tax title and registration? Which trim, LX?
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TRC
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Re: $25K car

Post by TRC » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:30 pm

If you like Honda, I'd throw an Acura TL in the mix. My 2014 TL SHAWD just turned 60K miles and is probably worth about 17-20K. It's a rocket ship, handles like a dream and still drives like it was the day I drove it off the lot when I paid ~40K. They stopped making the TL in 2014. Opt for the AWD version if you like handling & performance.

bradshaw1965
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Re: $25K car

Post by bradshaw1965 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:40 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:50 pm
bradshaw1965 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:36 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:53 pm
You might also consider a Mazda 6. I recently test drove a 2018 Accord and a 2018 Mazda 6, and liked the Mazda much better. The Mazda also has the safety features like Honda's, the 6 is getting CarPlay right now, and also has keyless entry. I found the Mazda drives much nicer than the Accord. Better steering, better handling, feels and drives like a much more expensive car. I also think it has a very classy and high quality interior.

Just something to check out if you are not dead set on the Accord or the used Lexus models you mentioned.
What trim level did you test drive on the Mazda 6? I really liked the Mazda as well but found I needed to be at a much higher trim level, and higher cost, then the Accord Sport to maximize the difference.
I test drove the 2.0 Touring Accord, and the 6 GT and the Signature. If you are going after the 1.5T Sport, I think its Mazda equivalent is the 6 Touring. The Touring is quite comparable to the 1.5 Sport.

There are also a lot of incentives around, and good deals to be had, at least on the Mazda.
I definitely think the high trim level Mazda 6 is great value and enough of a difference maker over the Accord Touring and near-luxury brands to steer a decision that direction. I think the Accord Sport is a really nice combo of attractive features at a really great price. Nice to have so many great quality midsize sedans in a market dominated by SUV's.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:12 pm

Edited my post to reflect that I’ll keep the car for at least a decade.
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Alexa9
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Re: $25K car

Post by Alexa9 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:39 pm

I'd rather have a new Honda/Toyota than a used Lexus.

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jabberwockOG
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Re: $25K car

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm

Toyota Camry. Stay away from current models with the Honda 1.5T engine that appears to have significant issues with unburned fuel getting into the engine oil.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:11 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm
Toyota Camry. Stay away from current models with the Honda 1.5T engine that appears to have significant issues with unburned fuel getting into the engine oil.
Really? On Accord or other cars? Any issues with the hybrid or 2.0?
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jabberwockOG
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Re: $25K car

Post by jabberwockOG » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:20 pm

airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:11 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm
Toyota Camry. Stay away from current models with the Honda 1.5T engine that appears to have significant issues with unburned fuel getting into the engine oil.
Really? On Accord or other cars? Any issues with the hybrid or 2.0?
Read through multiple owners forums before you buy any new or used car to check out potential issues. Check the forums for that specific model type and year (there are usually multiple forums and clubs for any brand and model car) and research and read about any possible serious issues before you own it. One of the Honda forums currently has one thread with 200+ pages of posts on the current fuel dilution issue on direct injection Honda engines.

Check out one of the Gen 1 Toyota Highlander forum some time to see what a forum looks like for an ultra reliable car (it is pretty boring).

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:23 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:20 pm
airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:11 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm
Toyota Camry. Stay away from current models with the Honda 1.5T engine that appears to have significant issues with unburned fuel getting into the engine oil.
Really? On Accord or other cars? Any issues with the hybrid or 2.0?

Thanks. Which forum?
Read through multiple owners forums before you buy any new or used car to check out potential issues. Check the forums for that specific model type and year (there are usually multiple forums and clubs for any brand and model car) and research and read about any possible serious issues before you own it. One of the Honda forums currently has one thread with 200+ pages of posts on the current fuel dilution issue on direct injection Honda engines.

Check out one of the Gen 1 Toyota Highlander forum some time to see what a forum looks like for an ultra reliable car (it is pretty boring).
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monkey_business
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Re: $25K car

Post by monkey_business » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:31 pm


airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:59 am

monkey_business wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:31 pm
Try this: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Honda+accord+forum

:beer
Did that. I was asking specifically a good one where the 1.5 engine oil was being discussed.
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airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:02 am

Going to the Accord 2.0 engine increases the price range, I’m guessing the risk with the 1.5 is if they do not find or acknowledge and subsequently fix any issues within the 3-5 year warranty? 5 year powertain. But also the hassle if there are any major engine issues
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airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:24 am

jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:20 pm
airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:11 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm
Toyota Camry. Stay away from current models with the Honda 1.5T engine that appears to have significant issues with unburned fuel getting into the engine oil.
Really? On Accord or other cars? Any issues with the hybrid or 2.0?
Read through multiple owners forums before you buy any new or used car to check out potential issues. Check the forums for that specific model type and year (there are usually multiple forums and clubs for any brand and model car) and research and read about any possible serious issues before you own it. One of the Honda forums currently has one thread with 200+ pages of posts on the current fuel dilution issue on direct injection Honda engines.

Check out one of the Gen 1 Toyota Highlander forum some time to see what a forum looks like for an ultra reliable car (it is pretty boring).
Doesn’t seem to be impacting 2018 Accord

https://www.facebook.com/groups/9082442 ... 745934408/
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Re: $25K car

Post by lazydavid » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:30 am

airahcaz wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:23 pm
Set this threshold cause a new 2018 Honda Accord Sport can be obtained for right around that number, with Honda Sensing Safety, keyless entry, Apple CarPlay, and well, NEW!

Of course there’s the used market, and our family is partial to Lexus:

2014/2015 ES350 FWD
2014/2015 GS350 AWD

So of these three, what’s your vote? What criteria lends to a decision?
What is it you want in a car? The ES and GS are very different cars. The GS is a blast to drive--actually handles better than its BMW 5-series benchmark--but the back seat is cramped. The ES is incredibly roomy (based off the Avalon) and plush, but is a transportation appliance.

I would not buy anything with the Honda 1.5T at this point. Step up to the 2 liter or eliminate the Accord from consideration. As has been mentioned, the Mazda 6 is also a great choice in this class. And since the Camry was new for MY18, you could probably get a sweet deal on a loaded '17 (XLE or Touring) if you wanted to go that way.

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Re: $25K car

Post by TheGreyingDuke » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:28 am

I agree that the Mazda6 is an attractive choice but only available in the lowest trim option with a stick. ,The Accord is available with the 2.0 Turbo and a 6-speed manual. For those of us who prefer to row our own, that's the end of the story.
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LawEgr1
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Re: $25K car

Post by LawEgr1 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:34 am

Of your options and criteria, go with the Honda Accord Sport.

I know this wasn't an option for you, but I'd make this recommendation to at least give it a try since PRICE was an influencing factor-

2018 Hyundai Sonata SEL+. You'll get every bit of the features of the Accord plus a heated steering wheel and laugh all the way to the bank with a few $$ grand in your pocket. (Ours was $21.7 OTD or 19.7k sale price +TTL etc)

It's all what you value. Plentiful options to be had these days!

Enjoy. :sharebeer

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Re: $25K car

Post by lazydavid » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:32 pm

TheGreyingDuke wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:28 am
I agree that the Mazda6 is an attractive choice but only available in the lowest trim option with a stick. ,The Accord is available with the 2.0 Turbo and a 6-speed manual. For those of us who prefer to row our own, that's the end of the story.
Given that two of the three cars the OP was originally considering are auto-only, I'm guessing a 3-pedal manual is not on the requirements list.

Even then, it's not automatically the end of the story. I definitely prefer to row my own (previous two vehicles were manuals), but at the point of purchasing my current car had a choice between 3 pedals, vs. almost double the mpg (29 vs. 17) and 50% more torque. Though I do sometimes miss rowing, I definitely made the right decision.

airahcaz
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:18 pm

I am OPEN to an Accord Sport manual for sure! Wife also drives stick, but she thinks impractical in our area. Worth reconsidering.

How's manual in snow? We're in suburbs but still populous.
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Re: $25K car

Post by marcwd » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:36 pm

airahcaz wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:18 pm
I am OPEN to an Accord Sport manual for sure! Wife also drives stick, but she thinks impractical in our area. Worth reconsidering.

How's manual in snow? We're in suburbs but still populous.
I've driven a manual Civic and Accord for the past 20+ years. Snow is no problem. In fact, I like the option of keeping the car in a certain gear in bad conditions. Tires are the important factor for snow. Get a set of winter tires if traction in snow is a concern.

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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:49 pm

Accord also has an impressive 30/38/33 mpg combined. Accord 2.0 is 22/26 and GS is 19/25
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:22 pm

What about a 2015 Lexus ES350 for under $25K?
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Re: $25K car

Post by lazydavid » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:30 am

airahcaz wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:22 pm
What about a 2015 Lexus ES350 for under $25K?
It's a solid, reliable choice. Lots of these have gone 300k without major repairs. Very comfortable and quiet, tons of space and at least a 6- or 8-body trunk--it's actually kind of absurd how cavernous it is. If you're looking for a sporty, engaging drive, stay far FAR away, as the ES is the definition of a transportation appliance. But it is an exceptionally good appliance, almost unrivaled in the market.

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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:20 am

Dare I throw this into the mix, the Accord will be more "fun"?
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Re: $25K car

Post by airahcaz » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:17 pm

Folks,
I went with the 2018 Accord Sport 1.5 and couldn’t be happier, $25,500 OTD
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