Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

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CULater
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Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by CULater » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm

I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Cyclesafe
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Cyclesafe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:06 pm

A first step is to get a quote from CarMax. You know that you'll be able to get this price the moment you decide to pull the trigger.

Detail the car carefully, inside and out. As much as possible make it look just like a new car - but cheaper.
Collect all of your maintenance records, including a recent smog check if such documentation is required anyway to transfer title.

Price it on the low side to garner interest. Do not come off of this price since it will be "more than fair".

Advertise on Auto Trader. You'll know exactly how you'll stack up to the competition. IMHO Craig's List will only yield bottom feeders.

Don't allow the test drive until they understand that your price is firm. If they start to haggle, stop working with them immediately.

As far as security goes, tell the prospective buyer up front your concerns and tell them that it is up to them to make you feel secure. Go with them as passenger when you feel safe and have them leave their driver's license at your home with somebody who knows what you are doing and knows when you are likely to return. During the test ride text your friend at home if that makes sense.

Payment should be with a cashier's ckeck written on a bank you are familiar with. Go with them to the bank if possible. Fill out the transfer papers after you get the check in a public place (like the bank). Deposit the check ASAP.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by bob60014 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:16 pm

That oil problem plagued Honda? Forget it!!!! ;)

First get a seperate email and a google voice number for this process. It keeps your primaries clear of trash.

Clean the car thoroughly. I usually start with putting a ad in the local paper. I've had luck with 2 out of 4 vehicles I've offered. One aggravating thing was that dealers would call trying to lowball, it happens no matter where the ad is. Craigslist works too. If your local grocery or other public places has a ad board, make up some flyers and post them. Cars.com, AutoTrader and similar are other possible ad spots.

Demo, I always have buyers meet me at the local police department, it weeds out all (most) suspect individuals. All meets and transactions are usually done here unless you are sure you will not have any surprises. Prior to a test drive ask to take a pic or see their drivers lic, this is for your and their protection. Again it weeds out some. When they test drive you are going too, in the passenger seat. Any problems (i never had any) you will be able to reach the steering wheel, brakes and/or keys.

Payment. If they are financing you'll want a approval letter and you will call the loan officer to confirm everything. Dont rely on the buyer saying everything is ok. Once assured and when the buyer brings the check, meet at your bank, have them verify the checks authenticity and get it deposited. Write up a receipt with full vehicle description, including vin number, buyers name, address, drivers license etc. Give them a copy and keep one for yourself. Turn over the title only when everything is completed.

Im in the airport as I'm writing this and I know I'm missing a number of things, but hopefully it gives you some ideas.

Dont forget, as a last resort or if you dont want the hassle, you can always go to Carmax or Carvana to sell.
Last edited by bob60014 on Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nowizard
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Nowizard » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:18 pm

I would go to the bank with them since a cashier's check can be faked. Other than that the suggestions made previously are good. We have used Craigslist, and I would not let a person drive the vehicle unless they came in an automobile that was left with me along with a driver's license. I would be clear in talking with the prospective buyer that "It is a different world than when we were younger, and I "know" you are reliable, but I will require that you arrive in a vehicle left with me and that you leave your driver's license." I would also not meet at your home but at a safe place. We have used the local police station, and some have designated spots for such transactions. You might want to get a Carfax report to assure the prospect of the condition of the vehicle.

Tim

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by SimonJester » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm

Everyone suggesting the buyer leave their drivers license behind, would you as a buyer do that?

I would not agree to that as a buyer, sure I would show it to you, and you can come on the test with me. In my state I am required to have the license on my person while driving or I am subject to a class B traffic infraction.

"No person shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state unless such person has in his or her immediate possession a current driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit issued by the department under this article."

"No person who has been issued a currently valid driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit shall operate a motor vehicle upon a highway in this state without having such license or permit in such person's immediate possession."

The penalty for an infraction under (state) driving without a license law is a fine of $15-$100
Additionally, a second or subsequent infraction will add 6 points to your (state) DMV driving record
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Nate79 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:48 pm

Is the car owned or do you have a loan on it?

What is the value by KBB private sale value?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Nate79 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:49 pm

SimonJester wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
Everyone suggesting the buyer leave their drivers license behind, would you as a buyer do that?

I would not agree to that as a buyer, sure I would show it to you, and you can come on the test with me. In my state I am required to have the license on my person while driving or I am subject to a class B traffic infraction.

"No person shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state unless such person has in his or her immediate possession a current driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit issued by the department under this article."

"No person who has been issued a currently valid driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit shall operate a motor vehicle upon a highway in this state without having such license or permit in such person's immediate possession."

The penalty for an infraction under (state) driving without a license law is a fine of $15-$100
Additionally, a second or subsequent infraction will add 6 points to your (state) DMV driving record
I would take a cell phone picture of the license, front/back before allowing them to drive it. I would not ask them to leave their license (I've never heard that before, very strange).

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:03 pm

I have sold 3 vehicles via Craigslist. Use GV number that goes to voicemail to screen calls. Meet at PD, examine and photo driver's license, go on drive while your friend stays at PD with buyer's vehicle. Got to their bank, watch cashier's check get cut and handed to you, then sign title and photograph it in case buyer never goes to DMV.

Oh, and price it fairly. Mine are immaculate. I price them high. Got offered $5,500 on my 9 year old car as a trade which was a good trade price. Listed it for $9,000, sold it for $8,500.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by dm200 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:15 pm

I always go with the prospective buyer on the test drive.

When I sold a Mazda with a bad engine (but still could be driven) - I did not insist on his committing to the asking price before the test drive. He liked the car - made a lower offer, then a higher offer - and finally agreed to my asking price.

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dm200
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by dm200 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:18 pm

If I were the potential buyer, I would not leave my drivers license with anyone. I would show it to the seller, BUT not allow a copy/photo.

I would also go to DMV with the buyer and finalize the transaction there - when buyer registers vehicle AFTER confirming that the check is good at his/her bank.

squirm
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by squirm » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:34 pm

After reading all these responses about meeting at the PD and being vigilant regarding scams, sounds like the best option is just sell it to Carmax.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:46 pm

squirm wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:34 pm
After reading all these responses about meeting at the PD and being vigilant regarding scams, sounds like the best option is just sell it to Carmax.
I'm very pro Craigslist, and sold my Lotus to someone who flew in (I picked him up at the airport), but until the cashier's check fully cleared, I was pretty nervous. I've sold other cars locally and gone to the buyer's bank or taken home envelopes full of 100's, but with all the scams around, I may just stick with Car Max for cars that have higher value.
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London
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by London » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 pm

Whenever I read the bogglehead advice on selling a car I always chuckle. First, it assumes criminal masterminds are out for your $5k car. Then, it assumes that a normal buyer will put up with your paranoid demands instead of buying just one of the thousands of other cars available.

If someone asked to come to the bank with me and watch my teller print the cashiers check, I would laugh in their face.

I get that this board is one of the most risk averse places around but you need to realize that most all people you deal with are normal and just looking to complete a transaction in a normal way.

I've sold many thing of high and low value to strangers and never had an issue. Chances are, you'll be fine too.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by bubbadog » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:35 pm

London wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 pm
Whenever I read the bogglehead advice on selling a car I always chuckle. First, it assumes criminal masterminds are out for your $5k car. Then, it assumes that a normal buyer will put up with your paranoid demands instead of buying just one of the thousands of other cars available.

If someone asked to come to the bank with me and watch my teller print the cashiers check, I would laugh in their face.

I get that this board is one of the most risk averse places around but you need to realize that most all people you deal with are normal and just looking to complete a transaction in a normal way.

I've sold many thing of high and low value to strangers and never had an issue. Chances are, you'll be fine too.
It is my understanding that people are counterfeiting cashier's checks these days. I have never had a buyer be offended by taking some measure to assure the check is authentic. Meeting at the buyer's local bank to complete the transaction seems reasonable to me. That way the seller can watch the cashier's check being issued by the bank.

Another option would be to meet at the seller's bank and have the buyer wire transfer the funds. As the seller, you can confirm with your branch manager that the funds have been deposited in your account. The buyer can authorize transfer by phone as you are waiting at the bank.

I have bought/sold several cars using both of these options.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by squirm » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:41 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:46 pm
squirm wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:34 pm
After reading all these responses about meeting at the PD and being vigilant regarding scams, sounds like the best option is just sell it to Carmax.
I'm very pro Craigslist, and sold my Lotus to someone who flew in (I picked him up at the airport), but until the cashier's check fully cleared, I was pretty nervous. I've sold other cars locally and gone to the buyer's bank or taken home envelopes full of 100's, but with all the scams around, I may just stick with Car Max for cars that have higher value.
I used to sell our cars via Craigslist (also via newspaper ads pre-internet). Last time I sold a small pickup, but I got tired of all the trash that kept coming over, asking dumb questions or trying to basically get the thing for free. The test drive situations I hate even more, I hate being in the car with some dude I don't know, I feel very very out of control. So several years ago I gave one of our cars to charity and the last car I sold to a friend for a extremely good price and pointed all the flaws. Next time I'll give my friend $500 to sell a car for me or just do Carmax.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by squirm » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:46 pm

London wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 pm
Whenever I read the bogglehead advice on selling a car I always chuckle. First, it assumes criminal masterminds are out for your $5k car. Then, it assumes that a normal buyer will put up with your paranoid demands instead of buying just one of the thousands of other cars available.

If someone asked to come to the bank with me and watch my teller print the cashiers check, I would laugh in their face.

I get that this board is one of the most risk averse places around but you need to realize that most all people you deal with are normal and just looking to complete a transaction in a normal way.

I've sold many thing of high and low value to strangers and never had an issue. Chances are, you'll be fine too.
In the age of scams, fake money orders and fake cashiers check, why wouldn't you want to be careful? I remember when I could go to a 7-11 get a money order go look at a car and the buyer wouldn't have any second thoughts on accepting it.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by daveydoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:20 am

bob60014 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:16 pm
That oil problem plagued Honda? Forget it!!!! ;)
Was that you? If this is a problem car, that's CarMax or trade-in for sure. End of story.

I've sold a lot of cars for cash but I would never third-party sell a car with a known issue that I didn't disclose -- especially a late-model car where the expectation is that, apart from some cosmetic stuff, it's supposed to be good as new. That's asking for trouble. I'm a reasonable person (except on BH) and even I would be crazy-angry when I uncovered this...
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 am

CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm
I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
I'm curious how you intend to address the serious issues with your problem-plagued Honda CR-V when you go to sell.

Are you going to tell prospective buyers the truth about the engine issues?

CULater
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by CULater » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:58 am

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm
I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
I'm curious how you intend to address the serious issues with your problem-plagued Honda CR-V when you go to sell.

Are you going to tell prospective buyers the truth about the engine issues?
What issues? Honda doesn't think there are any issues. The dealers don't think there are any issues. But if someone asked me, I'd tell them. But then, why in the world would they be looking to buy one?
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been, The foresight to know where you're going, And the insight to know when you've gone too far. ~ Irish Blessing

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm
I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
I'm curious how you intend to address the serious issues with your problem-plagued Honda CR-V when you go to sell.

Are you going to tell prospective buyers the truth about the engine issues?
There is no duty to disclose so why would he? A private car sale sold "as is" seems like it would fall under "caveat emptor". Someone buying a 2017 model year car from a private seller should offer a price based on the "unknown". Also, if it's a 2017, unless it has tons and tons of miles on it it likely is still under the factory bumper to bumper warranty, so a buyer shouldn't really be worried.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by JackoC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:16 am

London wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 pm
Whenever I read the bogglehead advice on selling a car I always chuckle. First, it assumes criminal masterminds are out for your $5k car. Then, it assumes that a normal buyer will put up with your paranoid demands instead of buying just one of the thousands of other cars available.

If someone asked to come to the bank with me and watch my teller print the cashiers check, I would laugh in their face.

I get that this board is one of the most risk averse places around but you need to realize that most all people you deal with are normal and just looking to complete a transaction in a normal way.

I've sold many thing of high and low value to strangers and never had an issue. Chances are, you'll be fine too.
In fairness this time around it's a 1 yr old car. The thing about the person leaving their license also seems strange to me. It is, obviously, illegal to drive without your license with you, most places anyway. The analog to what car dealers do would be a cell phone photo of the license. But I'd say if you're afraid to ride with the person having seen them, just make an excuse and send them off. If you're afraid to ride with many or most who show up, sell it to CarMax.

The thing about going to the bank with the person for a larger transaction let's say $15k not $5k, that doesn't sound so out of line. I've never personally sold a car for that much though and IIRC it was always a wad of bills for $5k-ish used cars I have privately sold. I'm curious how many people really do the go to bank thing. On the other side 'what to do when buying a car' most check lists say 'have your mechanic check it out' which AFAIK relatively few people actually do. Again I've sold IIRC 4 cars and nobody ever followed through on that, or more to the point one guy asked for it one time, I said out loud 'OK sure', but mentally 'next!', said my price was 100% firm to get him to go away, and sold it to somebody else with a decent bid who didn't want to create that hassle (no problem with any of those cars a non-mechanic couldn't see AFAIK, and how about if the mechanic messes up the car?). I guess you might run into that reaction making demands on either side of the transaction that checklists say you should, but that most people don't really do.

I'm also interested, for future reference, on relative ratings of venue, for again fairly up market used car, like $20k-ish. Seems another possibility is user forums for that type of car, besides Craigslist or Autotrader. Ebay motors seems to me close to 100% dealers. Which venue do people think is best, for that higher price range? $5k cars are a liquid commodity for private sale, $20k cars a lot less it seems.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by wabbajack » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:18 am

London wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:50 pm
Whenever I read the bogglehead advice on selling a car I always chuckle. First, it assumes criminal masterminds are out for your $5k car. Then, it assumes that a normal buyer will put up with your paranoid demands instead of buying just one of the thousands of other cars available.

If someone asked to come to the bank with me and watch my teller print the cashiers check, I would laugh in their face.

I get that this board is one of the most risk averse places around but you need to realize that most all people you deal with are normal and just looking to complete a transaction in a normal way.

I've sold many thing of high and low value to strangers and never had an issue. Chances are, you'll be fine too.
Sell it to CarMax. I had a 2013 Golf I tried to sell in 2017. Private party would have gotten me $11k. I listed on craigslist and autotrader for $10k. Nothing serious came up, so I just sold it to CarMax for $9k. I later tracked the VIN and found it listed for ~$13k on CarMax, which was most likely sold quite promptly.

The thing is, the people who do private party transactions are a certain type. You know the type. Maybe you are the type. Sell it to CarMax and save yourself the stress.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by randomguy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:24 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am
There is no duty to disclose so why would he? A private car sale sold "as is" seems like it would fall under "caveat emptor". Someone buying a 2017 model year car from a private seller should offer a price based on the "unknown". Also, if it's a 2017, unless it has tons and tons of miles on it it likely is still under the factory bumper to bumper warranty, so a buyer shouldn't really be worried.
A 2-3 year old cars at a dealer and we are talking lease returns. A 1-2 year old cars at private sales we are talking about changing circumstances(tripplets, moving overseas, financial issues, ..) or a POS car that the owner wants to unload. So I figure you should be worried 1/2 the time:) States have different disclosure laws and if this falls into them is going to be very specific.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:02 am

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am
There is no duty to disclose so why would he? A private car sale sold "as is" seems like it would fall under "caveat emptor".
Maybe because he wants to be a decent, reasonable human being with a clear conscience?

Say you are in the same position as the OP, and looking to get rid of a car due to a serious engine problem.
You list it private party. A young working mother with two young kids is interested, and asks why you are getting rid of it.
You'd have no problem withholding that information, and dumping the lemon on the unsuspecting mom, because there is "no duty" to disclose?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by daveydoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:08 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am
researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 am
CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm
I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
I'm curious how you intend to address the serious issues with your problem-plagued Honda CR-V when you go to sell.

Are you going to tell prospective buyers the truth about the engine issues?
There is no duty to disclose so why would he?
You've never sold anything, have you? People go crazy over this. This is how people get hurt, imo. Plead ignorance after the fact? What was the excuse for selling a brand-new vehicle? It will all come together.

A hundred people pipe up on these used car threads that accepting $10K in cash for a car and then driving the money to the bank is just too "risky" for their taste...but some would have no trouble cheating someone out of that money?! Wow. Morality aside, that's really dangerous.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Rupert » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm

The oil dilution issue isn't a safety issue, is it? If it were, I'd maybe understand the outrage dumped upon OP in this thread.

What exactly is OP supposed to do with a car he believes is a lemon but that no one else does, including the manufacturer, the dealer, and the thousands of people who buy CR-Vs each year? (I believe it is still the number one selling car in the country, isn't it?) Laundering it through Carmax doesn't eliminate the moral issue because Carmax will sell it to some unsuspecting person, perhaps even a young working mother with two young kids.
Last edited by Rupert on Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by JackoC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am
researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 am

I'm curious how you intend to address the serious issues with your problem-plagued Honda CR-V when you go to sell.

Are you going to tell prospective buyers the truth about the engine issues?
1. There is no duty to disclose so why would he? A private car sale sold "as is" seems like it would fall under "caveat emptor". Someone buying a 2017 model year car from a private seller should offer a price based on the "unknown".
2. Also, if it's a 2017, unless it has tons and tons of miles on it it likely is still under the factory bumper to bumper warranty, so a buyer shouldn't really be worried.
1. This point seems to take things in a contentious direction.
2. This one seems to be overlooked. New car warranties are generally transferable (IME a lot of people don't realize that), Honda's are. I did not read the other thread people are referring to, but hypothetically if somebody thinks they have a problem with their Honda, Honda says no it's fine*, I see less of an ethical issue selling that car to somebody else who can also go to Honda if it really turns into a problem in the next two years (assuming non-high mileage). And I take at least part of your point 1, who purchases 1 yr old cars in private sales without some suspicion the car is a lemon?

Anyway everybody is not going to agree on the gray areas of what constitutes adequate ethics in commercial transactions.

With that said, personally I would go the dealer route in selling a car I was getting rid of because of problems. I have in the past. I got rid of a car after 5 yrs (soon for me) because of persistent electronic glitches, supposedly fixed but they'd recurred and I expected them to again. I traded it to a dealer. I did not feel obliged to give them a long explanation with 'please sir, can you give me less' at the end, and obviously they would have looked at me like I had two heads if I had, nor is a dealer IME ever going to ask you 'any problems with it?' It was already not such a great price. A private sale party might ask, I wouldn't say 'no' if the answer was 'yes', and just in general I would avoid private sale in that case, personally.

*I have more than once perceived or suspected a problem with a new car a dealer service dept insists they 'can't replicate'. I think it's a common experience. In my own case I wouldn't rule out that I've sometimes imagined minor things.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:40 pm

This is a tough one. The oil dilution issue makes this ever more challenging.

I would probably be willing to eat the entire car (not really eat it), but call it a loss.

I would bring the keys and title to the Honda dealer where purchased. Talk to the General Manager or Service Manager. Explain that the issue is not going way. I would like a full value paid out via cashier's check. Leave the keys and title with the expectation of resolution.

I would write a letter to corporate Honda describing the issue, send a copy to the dealer. Literally walk away. It might backfire, but it might also get you out without having to sell to CarMax or sell to an unsuspecting private party.

Just an idea. I did something similar with a Honda Odyssey where the front middle spark plug fell out and wrecked the engine at 50k miles. All service done at the Honda dealer and a very known issue. All that was required to fix was to remove each plug and put lithium grease on the threads to avoid loosening. I was unsuspecting and had no prior knowledge of the issue until the engine was ruined and I was presented with an $8k bill for a new engine.

Not exactly the same, but I was prepared to walk away. Honda corporate agreed to replace the engine. I sold the car with a new engine within 3 months to close the books on that fiasco. :shock:
"We are not here to please, but to provoke thoughtfulness." --Unknown Boglehead

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by randomguy » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:58 pm

Rupert wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm
The oil dilution issue isn't a safety issue, is it? If it were, I'd maybe understand the outrage dumped upon OP in this thread.

What exactly is OP supposed to do with a car he believes is a lemon but that no one else does, including the manufacturer, the dealer, and the thousands of people who buy CR-Vs each year? (I believe it is still the number one selling car in the country, isn't it?) Laundering it through Carmax doesn't eliminate the moral issue because Carmax will sell it to some unsuspecting person, perhaps even a young working mother with two young kids.
Simple. He discloses to the buyer the issue and let them make the choice. It is one thing to roll the dice and buy a car with say a 5% chance of having this issue. It is another to have a car with the issue. Seriously does anyone buying the car think a seller that doesn't disclose this is acting ethically? Obviosly the OP doesn't want to do this cause it will them money. And yes I know some cultures/people think treating other people decently isn't a moral issue when dealing with people outside of their tribe.

Again check your state laws on required disclosures. That handles the legal side. What lets you sleep at night is a more personal issue

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Nate79 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:10 pm

It's very possible that a Carfax report will show the issue if the car has been in a dealer that reports maintenance and repair visits. I wonder if a potential buyer with the VIN# could contact a dealer or the manufacturer to give a report on the vehicle if it has been under repair or any known issues?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Rupert wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm
What exactly is OP supposed to do with a car he believes is a lemon but that no one else does, including the manufacturer, the dealer, and the thousands of people who buy CR-Vs each year?
Laundering it through Carmax doesn't eliminate the moral issue because Carmax will sell it to some unsuspecting person, perhaps even a young working mother with two young kids.
Very simple answer...
Don't lie (or mislead or withhold known info) if/when you are asked about it, regardless of who you are selling the car to.
I'm not sure why being honest/truthful is such a hard concept to grasp.

So are you saying you would have no qualms about lying to/misleading prospective buyers?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:21 pm
Rupert wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm
What exactly is OP supposed to do with a car he believes is a lemon but that no one else does, including the manufacturer, the dealer, and the thousands of people who buy CR-Vs each year?
Laundering it through Carmax doesn't eliminate the moral issue because Carmax will sell it to some unsuspecting person, perhaps even a young working mother with two young kids.
Very simple answer...
Don't lie (or mislead or withhold known info) if/when you are asked about it, regardless of who you are selling the car to.
I'm not sure why being honest/truthful is such a hard concept to grasp.

So are you saying you would have no qualms about lying to/misleading prospective buyers?
There's a difference between lying and spilling your heart out. When I sell a car I provide all of the service and repair history. I make the car available for a test drive and I make it available for a mechanic to look at. The last car I sold had lots of problems and had a stack of repair and maintenance issues. I couldn't get wait to get rid of it--as soon as I'd fix one thing something else would go. When I listed the car I didn't say "man this car is a piece of junk look at all the issues I've had!" I say here is the car, it has been well maintained and here is a list with receipts of all of the maintence and repairs that have been done. Do all people selling anything need to provide a detailed list of reasons why someone should move along to another product?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:11 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm
Do all people selling anything need to provide a detailed list of reasons why someone should move along to another product?
Have you read this thread? Has anyone recommended doing what you sarcastically suggest above? No.

What we are saying is very simple...just don't lie! How hard is that to understand?

If a buyer asks if there any known issues with the car, or why are you getting rid of the car, simply answer honestly.
Or you can lie/mislead/withhold information as some others have suggested.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:11 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm
Do all people selling anything need to provide a detailed list of reasons why someone should move along to another product?
Have you read this thread? Has anyone recommended doing what you sarcastically suggest above? No.

What we are saying is very simple...just don't lie! How hard is that to understand?

If a buyer asks if there any known issues with the car, or why are you getting rid of the car, simply answer honestly.
Or you can lie/mislead/withhold information as some others have suggested.
I believe it's your duty to provide relevant factual information. I don't believe it's your duty to wax poetically about any issues you might have or have had.

Let me pose my real life scenario. I had a car that had developed massive electrical issues. It had gone through 4 alternators and batteries in 4 months. Every time there was an issue I was stranded and needed to call AAA. There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle. Now the last alternator/battery didn't short out/freak out and was going strong for 3 straight months. When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different--and boy was I. Should I have told him that the car's electrical system was insane? Well I did, when I provided him all of the maintenance records. If he looked through them he would have seen tons of work on the electrical system. And as far as I was concerned the issue was repaired because I no longer was having that problem.

A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this. Maybe adjusted his offer, maybe decided not to purchase. I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. Buyer bought the car and I never heard another word. Perhaps he never had another problem, perhaps he did. But that's his problem now, he bought the car. You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by daveydoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:12 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm

I believe it's your duty to provide relevant factual information. I don't believe it's your duty to wax poetically about any issues you might have or have had.

Let me pose my real life scenario. I had a car that had developed massive electrical issues. It had gone through 4 alternators and batteries in 4 months. Every time there was an issue I was stranded and needed to call AAA. There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle. Now the last alternator/battery didn't short out/freak out and was going strong for 3 straight months. When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different--and boy was I. Should I have told him that the car's electrical system was insane? Well I did, when I provided him all of the maintenance records. If he looked through them he would have seen tons of work on the electrical system. And as far as I was concerned the issue was repaired because I no longer was having that problem.

A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this. Maybe adjusted his offer, maybe decided not to purchase. I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. Buyer bought the car and I never heard another word. Perhaps he never had another problem, perhaps he did. But that's his problem now, he bought the car. You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.
And this, dear BH, is why you sell your vehicles private-party but never buy them that way! :D
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:26 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm
There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle.
When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different
A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this.
I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. But that's his problem now, he bought the car.
Great story! Glad you were able to unload your lemon car on that poor sap.
It worked out great for you that he wasn't a "smart buyer." Bet you're glad it's his problem now! Great job!
You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm simply saying you should answer honestly when asked a question!

So the OP is wanting to dump his <1 yr old lemon CR-V solely because of its serious engine problems.
If someone asks why he is selling, or whether the vehicle has any problems, how do you suggest he answer?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:36 pm

When selling privately, it can get a bit "involved" if the buyer needs to get a loan to purchase the vehicle.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by H-Town » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:56 pm

CULater wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:32 pm
I'll be selling my 2017 vehicle pretty soon and would like to learn from experienced hands how best to go about it. Where to list it, how to demo it to prospective buyers and stay safe, how to get payment and avoid getting scammed, etc. Will appreciate words to the wise on how to do this successfully and painlessly.
Sell it to Carmax or local dealer.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by smackboy1 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Car selling tips:

1) Definitely use a throwaway phone # and email.
2) Don't use KBB or any other website to value and price the car. It's BS. Get a trade in offer from a dealer or Carmax. That's the low. Look at completed sales for similar cars e.g. eBay. Most cars listed on Auto Trader or Cars.com are sold by dealers so make sure you are priced below the dealer price.
3) Meet at the bank for test drive. Somewhere with good lighting and cameras. Tell them test drive requires drivers license and insurance card. Don't let anybody drive your car without showing BOTH.
4) Make sure to sign over the title and also have a signed agreement of sale. Keep copies.
5) Close the sale at the bank. Cashier's check drawn in front of you at the bank or cash. Don't fall for the fake cashier's check scam.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by dm200 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:12 pm

smackboy1 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:04 pm
Car selling tips:

1) Definitely use a throwaway phone # and email.
2) Don't use KBB or any other website to value and price the car. It's BS. Get a trade in offer from a dealer or Carmax. That's the low. Look at completed sales for similar cars e.g. eBay. Most cars listed on Auto Trader or Cars.com are sold by dealers so make sure you are priced below the dealer price.
3) Meet at the bank for test drive. Somewhere with good lighting and cameras. Tell them test drive requires drivers license and insurance card. Don't let anybody drive your car without showing BOTH.
4) Make sure to sign over the title and also have a signed agreement of sale. Keep copies.
5) Close the sale at the bank. Cashier's check drawn in front of you at the bank or cash. Don't fall for the fake cashier's check scam.
If the prospective purchaser does not already own a car, then he/she will not have an insurance card.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:41 pm
daveydoo wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:12 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm

I believe it's your duty to provide relevant factual information. I don't believe it's your duty to wax poetically about any issues you might have or have had.

Let me pose my real life scenario. I had a car that had developed massive electrical issues. It had gone through 4 alternators and batteries in 4 months. Every time there was an issue I was stranded and needed to call AAA. There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle. Now the last alternator/battery didn't short out/freak out and was going strong for 3 straight months. When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different--and boy was I. Should I have told him that the car's electrical system was insane? Well I did, when I provided him all of the maintenance records. If he looked through them he would have seen tons of work on the electrical system. And as far as I was concerned the issue was repaired because I no longer was having that problem.

A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this. Maybe adjusted his offer, maybe decided not to purchase. I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. Buyer bought the car and I never heard another word. Perhaps he never had another problem, perhaps he did. But that's his problem now, he bought the car. You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.
And this, dear BH, is why you sell your vehicles private-party but never buy them that way! :D
Unfortunately there are a lot of scumbag sellers out there that are willing to lie, cheat, etc in all areas of business. It's the sad reality and consumers really need to protect themselves as much as possible.
So, just to confirm, I'm a scumbag for providing the seller with all the written information from the mechanic regarding the electrical system? And I'm a scumbag because he didn't read them or decide to get the car checked out by a mechanic? But because I didn't verbally say to the guy "hey, just want to make sure your read through everything very detailed and noticed all of the work on the electrical system. It has some issues" I'm a scumbag?

That's a pretty high standard for a regular chap just looking to unload a car and a pretty low standard for a regular chap looking to buy a used car.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by SimonJester » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:24 pm

dm200 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:12 pm
smackboy1 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:04 pm
Car selling tips:

1) Definitely use a throwaway phone # and email.
2) Don't use KBB or any other website to value and price the car. It's BS. Get a trade in offer from a dealer or Carmax. That's the low. Look at completed sales for similar cars e.g. eBay. Most cars listed on Auto Trader or Cars.com are sold by dealers so make sure you are priced below the dealer price.
3) Meet at the bank for test drive. Somewhere with good lighting and cameras. Tell them test drive requires drivers license and insurance card. Don't let anybody drive your car without showing BOTH.
4) Make sure to sign over the title and also have a signed agreement of sale. Keep copies.
5) Close the sale at the bank. Cashier's check drawn in front of you at the bank or cash. Don't fall for the fake cashier's check scam.
If the prospective purchaser does not already own a car, then he/she will not have an insurance card.
It doesnt matter, in my state insurance follows the car. If the potential buyer crashes your vehicle your insurance in on the hook.

Ive bought and sold via private sell, its a pain in the neck I will tell you. Dealing with all sorts of yahoos who will low ball you or string you along, setup a test appointment and not show. Then when you get one that goes show up, the test drive is nerve wracking, they drive it like they just stole it...
Then of course they lowball you at the end.

My next ones will be sold to carmax or a dealer. Its just not worth it these days...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Nate79
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Nate79 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:37 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm
Nate79 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:41 pm
daveydoo wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:12 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm

I believe it's your duty to provide relevant factual information. I don't believe it's your duty to wax poetically about any issues you might have or have had.

Let me pose my real life scenario. I had a car that had developed massive electrical issues. It had gone through 4 alternators and batteries in 4 months. Every time there was an issue I was stranded and needed to call AAA. There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle. Now the last alternator/battery didn't short out/freak out and was going strong for 3 straight months. When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different--and boy was I. Should I have told him that the car's electrical system was insane? Well I did, when I provided him all of the maintenance records. If he looked through them he would have seen tons of work on the electrical system. And as far as I was concerned the issue was repaired because I no longer was having that problem.

A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this. Maybe adjusted his offer, maybe decided not to purchase. I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. Buyer bought the car and I never heard another word. Perhaps he never had another problem, perhaps he did. But that's his problem now, he bought the car. You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.
And this, dear BH, is why you sell your vehicles private-party but never buy them that way! :D
Unfortunately there are a lot of scumbag sellers out there that are willing to lie, cheat, etc in all areas of business. It's the sad reality and consumers really need to protect themselves as much as possible.
So, just to confirm, I'm a scumbag for providing the seller with all the written information from the mechanic regarding the electrical system? And I'm a scumbag because he didn't read them or decide to get the car checked out by a mechanic? But because I didn't verbally say to the guy "hey, just want to make sure your read through everything very detailed and noticed all of the work on the electrical system. It has some issues" I'm a scumbag?

That's a pretty high standard for a regular chap just looking to unload a car and a pretty low standard for a regular chap looking to buy a used car.
So to clarify, you were unloading a car you thought was unreliable. It was having consistent electrical problems - "gremlins", you handed them all the maintenance records and when asked why you were selling it you just said:
I stated I was ready to try something different
:shock:

As I said buyers should do their due diligence when buying used cars to protect themselves.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by daveydoo » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:38 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm
So, just to confirm, I'm a scumbag for providing the seller with all the written information from the mechanic regarding the electrical system? And I'm a scumbag because he didn't read them or decide to get the car checked out by a mechanic? But because I didn't verbally say to the guy "hey, just want to make sure your read through everything very detailed and noticed all of the work on the electrical system. It has some issues" I'm a scumbag?
I don't think you were called a scumbag.

I ask myself what I would want to know if I were buying the car. I don't point out every door ding. I've said it was in an accident years ago and x, y, and z were done and I've driven it for seven years ever since with no issues (true example). I've said the airbag was recalled and has not been replaced (true example). When I'm asked why I'm selling, I point to the shiny replacement sitting in the driveway. I pay for the CarFax so buyer can see it at my house, and I generally have a recent maintenance report listing all the flushes that I have declined.

I have sold all of mine because they were aging, mechanically and technologically, and I could afford a replacement. I have never sold a car with intractable issues just to get rid of it. But I do realize that that is a thing.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:47 pm

daveydoo wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:38 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm
So, just to confirm, I'm a scumbag for providing the seller with all the written information from the mechanic regarding the electrical system? And I'm a scumbag because he didn't read them or decide to get the car checked out by a mechanic? But because I didn't verbally say to the guy "hey, just want to make sure your read through everything very detailed and noticed all of the work on the electrical system. It has some issues" I'm a scumbag?
I don't think you were called a scumbag.

I ask myself what I would want to know if I were buying the car. I don't point out every door ding. I've said it was in an accident years ago and x, y, and z were done and I've driven it for seven years ever since with no issues (true example). I've said the airbag was recalled and has not been replaced (true example). When I'm asked why I'm selling, I point to the shiny replacement sitting in the driveway. I pay for the CarFax so buyer can see it at my house, and I generally have a recent maintenance report listing all the flushes that I have declined.

I have sold all of mine because they were aging, mechanically and technologically, and I could afford a replacement. I have never sold a car with intractable issues just to get rid of it. But I do realize that that is a thing.
I think I was. But that's besides the point. If you have a car with issues according to some folks above your only recourse is to sell it massively devalued or for parts at a junkyard. If you are selling a running vehicle that has had any issues supposedly repaired I don't see why you need to shout from the top of the mountain all the issues the car has had. I can see why some might think that's dishonorable, I just think those people are wrong. Note, I am not saying to lie. If a question was asked "I see this car has had lots of alternators put in, what's going on" I would have said "yea it's had some electrical issues, but I've been having them worked on as you can see in the maintenance history and everything seems good to go now". But they didn't so why would I volunteer?

Also note no one seems to care if a dealership or CarMax buys a dud. So much for honesty.

If you're selling a used car in private sale there is asymmetry in information and asymmetry in pricing. The buyer has more information, and the seller is getting pricing below retail. So what's the problem?

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by JackoC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:50 pm

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:26 pm
Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:56 pm
There was some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out. Finally decided I had had enough and went to get a new vehicle.
When I sold the car and was asked why I was getting rid of it, I stated I was ready to try something different
A smart buyer would had looked at everything and seen this.
I never spoke about it and I was never asked about it. But that's his problem now, he bought the car.
Great story! Glad you were able to unload your lemon car on that poor sap.
It worked out great for you that he wasn't a "smart buyer." Bet you're glad it's his problem now! Great job!
You seem to suggest I should have made a big point to say "hey this car has electrical issues." I don't think that is appropriate as the seller of a used as-is vehicle. Even less appropriate when the car is under manufacturers warranty.
I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm simply saying you should answer honestly when asked a question!

So the OP is wanting to dump his <1 yr old lemon CR-V solely because of its serious engine problems.
If someone asks why he is selling, or whether the vehicle has any problems, how do you suggest he answer?
It seems you want to emphasize a simple point and standard in part two but IMO you muddy the waters with your sarcastic comments in part one. Jags4186 specifically said the buyer did not ask about that car's electrical problem. That wasn't a case of 'simply answering honestly', yet you seem to accuse Jags of unethical behavior nonetheless. That's the way it reads to me at least.

Anyway let's just take part two. I agree you should not answer falsely. I don't necessarily agree you have to answer questions like 'does the vehicle have any problems?' IOW if asked that question I would say, 'here's the car, make of it as you will'. Which is entirely appropriate in most situations IMO. Of course somebody who asks that and does not get an answer may walk off, but IME serious people do not ask questions like that. They realize they have to do their own homework, the seller isn't obligated to do the buyer's homework. I believe a seller is morally obligated not to make false statements, and to give true and complete answers to *specific* questions.

I think the problem might be the focus on the particular Honda CR-V case that actually isn't this thread (the problem, that was another thread), I'm not familiar with, and isn't Jags' example either. There could be cases where a problem is profound enough and an opponent in the negotiation apparently naive enough that it would be distasteful to follow the general standard. That's why as I said I would tend to sell to a professional a car I wanted to get rid of *because* of problems. But for cars I've sold privately, 7-10 yr old single figure $k, 'does this car have any problems?' is just not a serious question IMO, and serious people don't ask it.

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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by Rupert » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:06 pm

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:21 pm
Rupert wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:29 pm
What exactly is OP supposed to do with a car he believes is a lemon but that no one else does, including the manufacturer, the dealer, and the thousands of people who buy CR-Vs each year?
Laundering it through Carmax doesn't eliminate the moral issue because Carmax will sell it to some unsuspecting person, perhaps even a young working mother with two young kids.
Very simple answer...
Don't lie (or mislead or withhold known info) if/when you are asked about it, regardless of who you are selling the car to.
I'm not sure why being honest/truthful is such a hard concept to grasp.

So are you saying you would have no qualms about lying to/misleading prospective buyers?
Caveat emptor is the law in my state. (I never buy used cars for exactly that reason). As for any moral qualms, I would offer to show buyers all the maintenance records for the automobile and allow them to have it inspected by a mechanic. Those steps satisfy my morals just fine.

researcher
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Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:27 pm

Jags4186 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:16 pm
So, just to confirm, I'm a scumbag for providing the seller with all the written information from the mechanic regarding the electrical system? And I'm a scumbag because he didn't read them or decide to get the car checked out by a mechanic? But because I didn't verbally say to the guy "hey, just want to make sure your read through everything very detailed and noticed all of the work on the electrical system. It has some issues" I'm a scumbag?
No, it is because you said “I was ready to try something different" when asked why you were selling.

When in fact, the real reason was because the car had “massive electrical issues” due to “some sort of gremlin that could not be sorted out” and you “finally decided I had had enough."

researcher
Posts: 669
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by researcher » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:38 pm

JackoC wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:50 pm
Jags4186 specifically said the buyer did not ask about that car's electrical problem. That wasn't a case of 'simply answering honestly', yet you seem to accuse Jags of unethical behavior nonetheless.

I agree you should not answer falsely...
I believe a seller is morally obligated not to make false statements, and to give true and complete answers to *specific* questions...
The buyer asked "why are you getting rid of the car." Jags4186 did not give a 'true and complete answer', as you say.
Instead of the real reason (massive electrical issues, gremlin that could not be sorted out), he simply said "“I was ready to try something different."
I don't necessarily agree you have to answer questions like 'does the vehicle have any problems?' IME serious people do not ask questions like that. They realize they have to do their own homework, the seller isn't obligated to do the buyer's homework.
How is that not a serious question to ask the seller? In fact, it is one of the most important questions to ask! Why wouldn't you ask it?
I just sold an 11yr old car. The three people who came to look at it (all of whom were educated, intelligent, middle-class people) all asked that very question.
I think the problem might be the focus on the particular Honda CR-V case...
His particular vehicle is the purpose of this thread (not Jags or your experience).
He is trying to dump a nearly new Honda CR-V due to serious engine problems.

JackoC
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:14 am

Re: Selling a newish vehicle yourself, how to do it?

Post by JackoC » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:10 am

researcher wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:38 pm
I don't necessarily agree you have to answer questions like 'does the vehicle have any problems?' IME serious people do not ask questions like that. They realize they have to do their own homework, the seller isn't obligated to do the buyer's homework.
How is that not a serious question to ask the seller? In fact, it is one of the most important questions to ask! Why wouldn't you ask it?
I just sold an 11yr old car. The three people who came to look at it (all of whom were educated, intelligent, middle-class people) all asked that very question.
Because in general in the real world, as opposed to internet preening, you're not going to get a complete answer. I've sold cars where naive buyers asked such open ended questions and as I said I answered with 'here's the car'. More sophisticated buyers IME do not ask that. Dealers IME do not ask it either.

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