Bone in my food

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Nate79
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Nate79 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:37 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 pm
C'mon man, get over yourself.

Why all the drama? It was a bone in the meat.
Some people are not aware that meat comes on bones. They think that it comes from a factory as is, filled into a bag that they can buy in their frozen food section at the grocery store.

Frank Grimes
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Frank Grimes » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:38 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:52 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:11 pm
There is no option that I know of to get a meatless bowl of food, unless I get tofu, which is weird.
You are simply being silly now. It makes me doubt your whole story.

Even a child knows you could get your bowl/burrito/taco with no meat and just veggies.
I would bring in the bone to the manager to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Don't waste your time. Bringing a bone in won't make anything sure.
I don't eat any of those veggies, just brown rice, beans and corn. I don't eat things like lettuce, peppers, so if I said no meat, I would be paying the price of meat, but getting nothing for the price, so I get the chicken and take out the bad pieces. Why would I pay for a meat and get nothing..... There is no meatless cheaper price for a bowl there that I know of, other than tofu which is weird, but maybe a better solution.
Dude...

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dm200
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:43 pm

barnaclebob wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:29 pm
Stuff happens, move on.
My dad once found a bent nail in his mashed potatoes at a restaurant, probably got there from the field somehow.
In my opinion, an occasional chicken bone in chicken (at a place like this) is normal.

I get the veggie bowl - never had a bone ;)

furikake
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by furikake » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:51 pm

If you're afraid of bones, become a vegan, then there is no chance of a bone anywhere. I got a piece of bone in my carnitas from Chipotle too some time last year. What did I do?! I picked out the bone and moved on. I didn't call Chipotle, I didn't call the store. Sometimes it just happens, we're all humans, and sometimes humans leave bones in there by accident, or they just didn't see it when processing the meat.

Also, another time, I was eating some snack from Costco, and it was so hard it broke my crown. What did I do? I contacted the snack company to tell them they roasted their snack too hard that I didn't want it to happen to other people. They offered to pay for the replacement crown, I refused because I was the one who chose to eat it, they didn't force me to. Then I moved on.

Are you looking for some kind of compensation and want validation from us that you should ask for compensation?

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GoldStar
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by GoldStar » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:35 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I find it hard to believe that the two of us have been lucky, considering we've been doing this for over a decade, 5x a week. If this is luck, I should run out and buy a lottery ticket because those are some incredible odds! :greedy

The only times I've had food poisoning during all this time has been from restaurants, once from an Indian buffet, and once from bad lettuce in a salad. YMMV.
You've been lucky or have a very good digestive system that is able to process the multitude of bacteria that you might be consuming that would otherwise make you ill.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying when it comes to food safety I am going to err on the side of caution and believe the hundred's of references I've seen over the years that state not to eat meat that's been in your refrigerator for 5 days (versus saying "well monkey_business didn't have any problems after a decade" :happy).

A lot of types of bacteria can continue to multiply EVEN if your food is refrigerated but it just grows at a much slower rate. So keeping the food for a few days won't allow much growth but once your up to 5 it becomes very questionable. It would be similar to leaving the food out for a dozen hours before eating it (perhaps you do this as well) - you might be okay if there was not bacteria present or if any present bacteria didn't multiply enough to make you ill. Its all a matter of how much risk you want to take. I assume you refrigerate your food for a reason - you shouldn't leave it in there too long before consuming it for the same reason.

ResearchMed
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:10 pm

Frank Grimes wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:38 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:52 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:11 pm
There is no option that I know of to get a meatless bowl of food, unless I get tofu, which is weird.
You are simply being silly now. It makes me doubt your whole story.

Even a child knows you could get your bowl/burrito/taco with no meat and just veggies.
I would bring in the bone to the manager to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Don't waste your time. Bringing a bone in won't make anything sure.
I don't eat any of those veggies, just brown rice, beans and corn. I don't eat things like lettuce, peppers, so if I said no meat, I would be paying the price of meat, but getting nothing for the price, so I get the chicken and take out the bad pieces. Why would I pay for a meat and get nothing..... There is no meatless cheaper price for a bowl there that I know of, other than tofu which is weird, but maybe a better solution.
Dude...
Right.

"... and take out the bad pieces..." :shock:

Repeatedly, each week? :oops:

Really!?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

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Shackleton
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Shackleton » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:22 pm

I would suggest growing up and stop picking at your food. And learn to eat your veggies. I can only imagine the food issues your child will develop.
“Superhuman effort isn't worth a damn unless it achieves results.” ~Ernest Shackleton

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Elsebet
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Elsebet » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:26 pm

I was eating pho at a work lunch once and found a cute little emerald green beetle among the vegetables . I just picked it out and kept eating. My co-workers were all disgusted and said I should return the food. I didn't, nor did I even mention it to the server.

I grew up eating fresh home grown vegetables from the garden and sometimes we found a bug on what we were eating, it was no big deal. I'm sure I ate plenty of bugs I missed. I also eat vegetables and berries right off the plants in my own garden, although I would not do that elsewhere since I don't know if they spray anything on the plants.

OP, I would not pursue this issue and just let it be.

sonosoldi3112
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by sonosoldi3112 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:31 pm

Alas , this happens to Flesh eaters from time to time .. as others have said ...consider not eating animal flesh and eat a healthy plant food diet.

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FlyAF
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by FlyAF » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:32 pm

Shackleton wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:22 pm
I would suggest growing up and stop picking at your food. And learn to eat your veggies. I can only imagine the food issues your child will develop.
Chicken nuggets and cheese pizza for lyfe!

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dm200
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:39 pm

... and, meat eaters, "bone" does not count as "fiber" ;)

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JoMoney
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by JoMoney » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:41 pm

I don't think the store manager (or anyone else) needs to see a chicken bone you found in some chicken.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

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JoMoney
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by JoMoney » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:43 pm

dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:39 pm
... and, meat eaters, "bone" does not count as "fiber" ;)
glucosamine and chondroitin ... no extra charge ;)
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

Mjar
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Mjar » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:47 pm

Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:20 pm
I ordered take out from Chipotle on Friday, just got around to eating it last night. Took a bite and had to spit it out. I take a look at it and there is a chicken bone attached to the piece of chicken meat. Bone is about an inch or slightly longer. I kept it and contacted their customer service. Do I bring the bone into the store and show the manager? Not sure I can eat there again. I usually eat there once a week sometimes two if I have a gift card. Never was a big fan of their chicken but it is the only meat that I eat from them.
what would you say to your aunt if this happened at her house, would not not go back to her house to eat as well if she served you boneless chicken but there was a rogue piece of bone? Most likely you would tell her and truly blame the supplier not your aunt. Same as Chipotle, I highly doubt they de-bone their chicken, their suppliers do that. If it didn't hurt/cut you, move on and keep eating there. I at a taco bell once back in high school and in my burrito came the squeeze cap of the sour cream, I took it out and kept eating the burrito and kept going a back there without complaint.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:53 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:55 pm
You mention you called customer service but don't state what they told you. (??)

By the way - I thought the rule was 3 days on left-over cooked meats (personally - for meat from a restaurant I wouldn't go past 1 day). Perhaps if finding the bone stopped you from eating the rest you were lucky it was in there.
At home... it all depends on how you handled the meat and the temps of the cooking, and the fridge temps.

At a restaurant... ditto... but the laws likely limit it to a defined amount, since the cooking temps and fridge temps are already defined, and they also have a fudge factor built into the laws of most states.

Teague
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Teague » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:58 pm

sonosoldi3112 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:31 pm
Alas , this happens to Flesh eaters from time to time .. as others have said ...consider not eating animal flesh and eat a healthy plant food diet.
A "plant food diet?" Like fertilizer? Wow, that's even more radical than the more common moral lectures about food choices!
Semper Augustus

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dm200
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:01 pm

An aunt of mine regularly made sour cherry pies - very good! She froze cherries for pies during the cherry season.

However, in the family she was "known" for not being 100% "effective" in getting all the cherry pits out.

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monkey_business
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by monkey_business » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:35 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I find it hard to believe that the two of us have been lucky, considering we've been doing this for over a decade, 5x a week. If this is luck, I should run out and buy a lottery ticket because those are some incredible odds! :greedy

The only times I've had food poisoning during all this time has been from restaurants, once from an Indian buffet, and once from bad lettuce in a salad. YMMV.
You've been lucky or have a very good digestive system that is able to process the multitude of bacteria that you might be consuming that would otherwise make you ill.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying when it comes to food safety I am going to err on the side of caution and believe the hundred's of references I've seen over the years that state not to eat meat that's been in your refrigerator for 5 days (versus saying "well monkey_business didn't have any problems after a decade" :happy).

A lot of types of bacteria can continue to multiply EVEN if your food is refrigerated but it just grows at a much slower rate. So keeping the food for a few days won't allow much growth but once your up to 5 it becomes very questionable. It would be similar to leaving the food out for a dozen hours before eating it (perhaps you do this as well) - you might be okay if there was not bacteria present or if any present bacteria didn't multiply enough to make you ill. Its all a matter of how much risk you want to take. I assume you refrigerate your food for a reason - you shouldn't leave it in there too long before consuming it for the same reason.
Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
Last edited by monkey_business on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:05 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:53 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:47 pm
Why are people gasping at eating food that has been in the fridge for 5 days? We usually cook a big batch of food on Sunday night and eat it through Friday. Been doing this for over a decade. To the best of my knowledge, I am still alive.
I also don't get people worrying so much about what date I got it and then ate it. Not sure why I even posted the day.
Thegame14: I think folks were just trying to be helpful. Having a bone in your food is dangerous. Eating food that is stored longer than it should have been before eating it is equally dangerous.
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I would reiterate that the temp of the fridge is critical, and that chart seems to be lacking that recommendation.
https://lifehacker.com/what-temperature ... -533534221 presents a pretty good guideline.

CDC says:

Cook and keep food at the correct temperature

Food, especially roasts of beef or poultry, should be cooked to a safe internal temperature, and then kept at 140°F (60°C) or warmer or 40°F (4.4°C) or cooler. These temperatures prevent the growth of C. perfringens spores that might have survived cooking. Meat dishes should be served hot, within 2 hours after cooking.

Refrigerate leftovers and reheat them properly

Leftover foods should be refrigerated at 40°F or colder as soon as possible and within 2 hours of preparation. It is OK to put hot foods directly into the refrigerator. However, large amounts of food, such as soups, stews, and big cuts of meats, such as roasts, should be divided into small quantities for refrigeration. Leftovers should be reheated to at least 165°F (74°C) before serving.

When in doubt, throw it out

Foods that have dangerous bacteria in them may not taste, smell, or look different. Any food that has been left out too long may be dangerous to eat, even if it looks OK.

sschoe2
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by sschoe2 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:06 pm

JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:33 pm
chevca wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:21 pm
Is this a serious post/thread? :oops:

OP, you're not a fan of Chipotle, don't like their meat, only tolerate their chicken, and you eat there once or twice a week?? Is Chipotle the only restaurant around you?
It is surprising that disparaging a restaurant by name is permitted here.
Why? We beat down on Edward Jones and the like all the time.

sschoe2
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by sschoe2 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:07 pm

Sometimes boneless chicken breasts still have small bone fragments that haven't gotten separated out. It happens and generally doesn't cause problems.

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GoldStar
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by GoldStar » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:08 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:05 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I would reiterate that the temp of the fridge is critical, and that chart seems to be lacking that recommendation.
It's right in the header of the table actually.

JoeRetire
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:14 pm

sschoe2 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:06 pm
JoeRetire wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:33 pm
chevca wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:21 pm
Is this a serious post/thread? :oops:

OP, you're not a fan of Chipotle, don't like their meat, only tolerate their chicken, and you eat there once or twice a week?? Is Chipotle the only restaurant around you?
It is surprising that disparaging a restaurant by name is permitted here.
Why? We beat down on Edward Jones and the like all the time.
Good point.

Rupert
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Rupert » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
The CDC recommends consuming refrigerated cooked chicken within 3-4 days of cooking it, and they are the entity charged with investigating outbreaks of food poisoning and the entity to whom food poisoning incidents are reported by doctors. If anything, I'd imagine food poisoning incidents are massively under-reported, since most people just chock up their diarrhea and vomiting to "something I ate didn't agree with me." Plus most people assume they'll get sick from food poisoning immediately, when in reality it can take a day or two for the bacteria to multiply enough to make them sick. So I never believe people who say they've never had food poisoning. Of course, everyone is free to disagree with me and eat all the bacteria they want. I'll stick with the CDC for lack of anything better to rely on.

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dm200
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:19 pm

I suspect that different folks can often eat the same food (that can cause food poisoning) and not all will get sick.

Rupert
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Rupert » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:25 pm

dm200 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:19 pm
I suspect that different folks can often eat the same food (that can cause food poisoning) and not all will get sick.
Yes, yes. People whose immune systems are compromised for whatever reason will get sicker than others. I know of two people who ate the same smoked salmon. One had gastroenteritis for three days, one developed listeriosis and was hospitalized after his organs began shutting down. The latter fellow was on immune-compromising biologic therapy for his arthritis.
Last edited by Rupert on Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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steadyeddy
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by steadyeddy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:25 pm

I’m still trying to figure out how the piece of chicken with the bone passed your usual piece by piece inspection!

But seriously, I will tell you I’ve found more than one bone fragment in my chipotle chicken over the years. I just set it aside and keep eating. It’s not exactly fine dining. I appreciate that it’s slightly less processed than most fast food.

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dm200
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by dm200 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:27 pm

steadyeddy wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:25 pm
I’m still trying to figure out how the piece of chicken with the bone passed your usual piece by piece inspection!

But seriously, I will tell you I’ve found more than one bone fragment in my chipotle chicken over the years. I just set it aside and keep eating. It’s not exactly fine dining. I appreciate that it’s slightly less processed than most fast food.
:happy

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monkey_business
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by monkey_business » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
The CDC recommends consuming refrigerated cooked chicken within 3-4 days of cooking it, and they are the entity charged with investigating outbreaks of food poisoning and the entity to whom food poisoning incidents are reported by doctors. If anything, I'd imagine food poisoning incidents are massively under-reported, since most people just chock up their diarrhea and vomiting to "something I ate didn't agree with me." Plus most people assume they'll get sick from food poisoning immediately, when in reality it can take a day or two for the bacteria to multiply enough to make them sick. So I never believe people who say they've never had food poisoning. Of course, everyone is free to disagree with me and eat all the bacteria they want. I'll stick with the CDC for lack of anything better to rely on.
Where is the data that it goes bad on day 5?

Furthermore, if they do have precise data, why are all the recommendations a range, such as 3-4 days? Shouldn't it just be 4 days?

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GoldStar
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by GoldStar » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:34 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:35 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I find it hard to believe that the two of us have been lucky, considering we've been doing this for over a decade, 5x a week. If this is luck, I should run out and buy a lottery ticket because those are some incredible odds! :greedy

The only times I've had food poisoning during all this time has been from restaurants, once from an Indian buffet, and once from bad lettuce in a salad. YMMV.
You've been lucky or have a very good digestive system that is able to process the multitude of bacteria that you might be consuming that would otherwise make you ill.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying when it comes to food safety I am going to err on the side of caution and believe the hundred's of references I've seen over the years that state not to eat meat that's been in your refrigerator for 5 days (versus saying "well monkey_business didn't have any problems after a decade" :happy).

A lot of types of bacteria can continue to multiply EVEN if your food is refrigerated but it just grows at a much slower rate. So keeping the food for a few days won't allow much growth but once your up to 5 it becomes very questionable. It would be similar to leaving the food out for a dozen hours before eating it (perhaps you do this as well) - you might be okay if there was not bacteria present or if any present bacteria didn't multiply enough to make you ill. Its all a matter of how much risk you want to take. I assume you refrigerate your food for a reason - you shouldn't leave it in there too long before consuming it for the same reason.
Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
Your math is still wrong. Its only on the 5th day that you may have a high enough multitude of bacteria to make you ill. So you are at 2080 meals (1040 real meal samples) consumed with potentially harmful bacteria levels. Like I said - it might not be luck - you and spouse might have a high tolerance to the bacteria you are consuming. Or perhaps this Friday, with your 1041st meal saved beyond recommendations - you will have your weekend-killing-lie-in-bed-running-to-the-restroom-all-weekend meal. Best of luck to you.

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monkey_business
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by monkey_business » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:37 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:34 pm
Your math is still wrong. Its only on the 5th day that you may have a high enough multitude of bacteria to make you ill. So you are at 2080 meals (1040 real meal samples) consumed with potentially harmful bacteria levels. Like I said - it might not be luck - you and spouse might have a high tolerance to the bacteria you are consuming. Or perhaps this Friday, with your 1041st meal saved beyond recommendations - you will have your weekend-killing-lie-in-bed-running-to-the-restroom-all-weekend meal. Best of luck to you.
Perhaps! Best of luck to you too :sharebeer

Rupert
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Rupert » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm

monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:28 pm
Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
The CDC recommends consuming refrigerated cooked chicken within 3-4 days of cooking it, and they are the entity charged with investigating outbreaks of food poisoning and the entity to whom food poisoning incidents are reported by doctors. If anything, I'd imagine food poisoning incidents are massively under-reported, since most people just chock up their diarrhea and vomiting to "something I ate didn't agree with me." Plus most people assume they'll get sick from food poisoning immediately, when in reality it can take a day or two for the bacteria to multiply enough to make them sick. So I never believe people who say they've never had food poisoning. Of course, everyone is free to disagree with me and eat all the bacteria they want. I'll stick with the CDC for lack of anything better to rely on.
Where is the data that it goes bad on day 5?

Furthermore, if they do have precise data, why are all the recommendations a range, such as 3-4 days? Shouldn't it just be 4 days?
The CDC makes a lot of data available on its website. Start your research here: https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dfwed/keypro ... lance.html . But you do understand how this works, right? Not all refrigerated cooked chicken will go bad on day 5. Some of it will go bad on day 3. Some of it may go bad on day 6. It depends on how much bacteria was in the chicken before it was cooked, how the chicken was cooked, how the chicken was stored, if/how the chicken was re-heated, etc. In general (we're dealing with guidelines here, not iron-clad laws of physics), if you handle it properly, cook it properly, store it properly, re-heat it properly, it can still be safely eaten in 3-4 days. After that, you're gambling.

jumppilot
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by jumppilot » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm

scophreak wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:19 pm
I think this highlights our complete disconnect as a society as to the actual sources of the food we're consuming.
I went deer hunting and posted pictures of my kill on Facebook. I had a few friends give me a hard time for killing an innocent animal, yet they have no problem going to the grocery store and buying a pound of ground beef.

OP, you haven’t lived until you’ve field dressed a deer. You won’t be worrying about bones in your takeout after that experience.

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GoldStar
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by GoldStar » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:53 pm

Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:28 pm
Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm

Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
The CDC recommends consuming refrigerated cooked chicken within 3-4 days of cooking it, and they are the entity charged with investigating outbreaks of food poisoning and the entity to whom food poisoning incidents are reported by doctors. If anything, I'd imagine food poisoning incidents are massively under-reported, since most people just chock up their diarrhea and vomiting to "something I ate didn't agree with me." Plus most people assume they'll get sick from food poisoning immediately, when in reality it can take a day or two for the bacteria to multiply enough to make them sick. So I never believe people who say they've never had food poisoning. Of course, everyone is free to disagree with me and eat all the bacteria they want. I'll stick with the CDC for lack of anything better to rely on.
Where is the data that it goes bad on day 5?

Furthermore, if they do have precise data, why are all the recommendations a range, such as 3-4 days? Shouldn't it just be 4 days?
The CDC makes a lot of data available on its website. Start your research here: https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dfwed/keypro ... lance.html . But you do understand how this works, right? Not all refrigerated cooked chicken will go bad on day 5. Some of it will go bad on day 3. Some of it may go bad on day 6. It depends on how much bacteria was in the chicken before it was cooked, how the chicken was cooked, how the chicken was stored, if/how the chicken was re-heated, etc. In general (we're dealing with guidelines here, not iron-clad laws of physics), if you handle it properly, cook it properly, store it properly, re-heat it properly, it can still be safely eaten in 3-4 days. After that, you're gambling.
USDA also makes some research available: https://www.fsis.usda.gov
And since you are skeptical of all the US guidelines, there have been many European studies on bacterial growth in refrigeration as well - some of which are available from here: https://europepmc.org/

Nowizard
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Nowizard » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:04 pm

Just move on. Not an issue of real importance. The best you would get is a free meal.

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Turbo29 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:08 pm

GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
Thegame14 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:53 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:47 pm
Why are people gasping at eating food that has been in the fridge for 5 days? We usually cook a big batch of food on Sunday night and eat it through Friday. Been doing this for over a decade. To the best of my knowledge, I am still alive.
I also don't get people worrying so much about what date I got it and then ate it. Not sure why I even posted the day.
Thegame14: I think folks were just trying to be helpful. Having a bone in your food is dangerous. Eating food that is stored longer than it should have been before eating it is equally dangerous.
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
Interesting the government publishes that because the FDA model food code allows restaurants to keep cooked food 7 days so long as it's 41 degrees or less.

The danger of keeping it longer is listeria, which grows even in the refrigerator.

of course just because it may be safe doesn't mean it's going to taste good after it's been there that long.
Last edited by Turbo29 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by monkey_business » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:09 pm

Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm
The CDC makes a lot of data available on its website. Start your research here: https://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dfwed/keypro ... lance.html .
I don't see the data on the safety of refrigerated food. Lots of studies on outbreaks of diseases, special populations, etc. If there are studies measuring pathogens in refrigerated food at various time intervals by the CDC, please share.
Rupert wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm
But you do understand how this works, right? Not all refrigerated cooked chicken will go bad on day 5. Some of it will go bad on day 3. Some of it may go bad on day 6. It depends on how much bacteria was in the chicken before it was cooked, how the chicken was cooked, how the chicken was stored, if/how the chicken was re-heated, etc. In general (we're dealing with guidelines here, not iron-clad laws of physics), if you handle it properly, cook it properly, store it properly, re-heat it properly, it can still be safely eaten in 3-4 days. After that, you're gambling.
Food can, obviously, go bad at different intervals based on the factors you mention. However, the recommendation for safe consumption should not be a range, if there is precise data showing when food goes bad. In other words, what does "3-4" mean? In some cases it is safe on day 4, and in some it is not? Then why not say 3 days? And if it's precisely 3 days (which it is not), where is the data showing it goes bad on day 4?

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by LoveMyDog » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:29 pm

I can imagine someone getting a cracked tooth if biting on a piece of bone unexpectedly. I didn't, and still don't, think that contacting the customer service is a stupid idea. Then as I kept reading, I begin to worry about humanity...

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:34 pm

There are a great many studies on pathogen growth on refrigerated food, but they are in journals, and not something most people would find interesting or a comprehensive review that is readable for most folks if you are not in a related field. That is why the cdc and fda make recommendation of general guidelines. The guidelines already posted are good in general, but all of this info is dependent on many variables and statistical variance related to those variables. It is a science, but since the variables are never ALL known it is not an exact science.

https://www.google.com/search?q=review+ ... irefox-b-1

Is a link to a search on google that has some good output. If you go though it I think you will see that you asked for, esp in a couple of the pdf links.

LadyIJ
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by LadyIJ » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:34 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:42 pm
C'mon man, get over yourself.

Why all the drama? It was a bone in the meat.
+1 really!

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Spirit Rider » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:47 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:37 pm
Some people are not aware that meat comes on bones. They think that it comes from a factory as is, filled into a bag that they can buy in their frozen food section at the grocery store.
Even worse. My SIL once exclaimed; "chicken comes from chickens???", when it was indirectly mentioned. She was dead serious (pun intended) and wouldn't eat the rest of the meal. She was a teenager at the time, but still...

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Kennedy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:55 pm

In my experience, people become much happier in general when they accept that small nuisances are just part of life and move on.

JoeRetire
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:01 pm

jumppilot wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:46 pm
I went deer hunting and posted pictures of my kill on Facebook. I had a few friends give me a hard time for killing an innocent animal, yet they have no problem going to the grocery store and buying a pound of ground beef.
That's because cows aren't innocent. No, not by a long shot. They're guilty! Guilty I says!

In modern times, people are so disconnected from their food sources, that they forget.

I plan to start posting pictures of ground beef on Facebook. Properly dressed of course.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Starfish
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Starfish » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:03 pm

And I thought Chipoltle genetically modifies chickens to grow with bones, like some feathered snails.
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:34 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:04 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 pm
monkey_business wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:35 pm
GoldStar wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:10 pm
monkey_business: Because every reference you will find on how often to store cooked meats in the refrigerator before eating will be "less than" 5 days. Sounds like you've been lucky so far - for those of us that have had bouts of food poisoning - we tend to be more careful.
Here's one reference:
https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/ ... times.html
I find it hard to believe that the two of us have been lucky, considering we've been doing this for over a decade, 5x a week. If this is luck, I should run out and buy a lottery ticket because those are some incredible odds! :greedy

The only times I've had food poisoning during all this time has been from restaurants, once from an Indian buffet, and once from bad lettuce in a salad. YMMV.
You've been lucky or have a very good digestive system that is able to process the multitude of bacteria that you might be consuming that would otherwise make you ill.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying when it comes to food safety I am going to err on the side of caution and believe the hundred's of references I've seen over the years that state not to eat meat that's been in your refrigerator for 5 days (versus saying "well monkey_business didn't have any problems after a decade" :happy).

A lot of types of bacteria can continue to multiply EVEN if your food is refrigerated but it just grows at a much slower rate. So keeping the food for a few days won't allow much growth but once your up to 5 it becomes very questionable. It would be similar to leaving the food out for a dozen hours before eating it (perhaps you do this as well) - you might be okay if there was not bacteria present or if any present bacteria didn't multiply enough to make you ill. Its all a matter of how much risk you want to take. I assume you refrigerate your food for a reason - you shouldn't leave it in there too long before consuming it for the same reason.
Is there any concrete evidence that properly refrigerated cooked meat is bad on day 5? I think most guides from places like the FDA tend to be overly conservative with a lot of error margin built into the guidelines. Same with expiration dates.

Even conservatively, let's took at how many times we have done this:

2 people x 2 meals a day x 5 days a week x 10 years = 10,400 meals. Rate of food illness: 0%. The ratio so far is 0 / 10,400. That is some serious luck! :shock:

Edit: Math fix 8-)
Your math is still wrong. Its only on the 5th day that you may have a high enough multitude of bacteria to make you ill. So you are at 2080 meals (1040 real meal samples) consumed with potentially harmful bacteria levels. Like I said - it might not be luck - you and spouse might have a high tolerance to the bacteria you are consuming. Or perhaps this Friday, with your 1041st meal saved beyond recommendations - you will have your weekend-killing-lie-in-bed-running-to-the-restroom-all-weekend meal. Best of luck to you.


Did you ever ask yourselves why people in some countries have such a huge allergy rate or get sick very quick when visiting other countries from water and food?
Everything is so sterilized that you don't get any immunity and the immune system goes nuts.
When my my friends hiking they wouldn't drink the best water available, spring water, without adding some bad tasting halogen pill in it because "deers poop in it".

5 days old chipoltle is nasty but it should not be dangerous.
And what can happen to you? At worst couple of days of diarrhea.
Last edited by Starfish on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Teague
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Teague » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:08 pm

The foregoing hoopla suggests that if you keep the chicken in your fridge for more than a few days, it starts re-growing bones. :shock:
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by abuss368 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:22 pm

Incredible.
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monkey_business
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by monkey_business » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:24 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:34 pm
There are a great many studies on pathogen growth on refrigerated food, but they are in journals, and not something most people would find interesting or a comprehensive review that is readable for most folks if you are not in a related field. That is why the cdc and fda make recommendation of general guidelines. The guidelines already posted are good in general, but all of this info is dependent on many variables and statistical variance related to those variables. It is a science, but since the variables are never ALL known it is not an exact science.

https://www.google.com/search?q=review+ ... irefox-b-1

Is a link to a search on google that has some good output. If you go though it I think you will see that you asked for, esp in a couple of the pdf links.
I didn't see any studies that are backing up the 3-4 day claims in your search. I am not even trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely just asking for data because the guideline seems made up to me.

The interesting thing is that on the FDA page for food safety:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fs ... y/ct_index

It says (underlined the interesting bit for emphasis):
Types of Bacteria in Refrigerated Foods
There are two completely different families of bacteria: pathogenic bacteria, the kind that cause foodborne illness, and spoilage bacteria, the kind of bacteria that cause foods to deteriorate and develop unpleasant odors, tastes, and textures.

Pathogenic bacteria can grow rapidly in the "Danger Zone," the temperature range between 40 and 140 °F, but they do not generally affect the taste, smell, or appearance of a food. In other words, one cannot tell that a pathogen is present.

Spoilage bacteria can grow at low temperatures, such as in the refrigerator. Eventually they cause food to develop off or bad tastes and smells. Most people would not choose to eat spoiled food, but if they did, they probably would not get sick. It comes down to an issue of quality versus safety:

Food that has been left too long on the counter may be dangerous to eat, but could look fine.
Food that has been stored too long in the refrigerator or freezer may be of lessened quality, but most likely would not make anyone sick. (However, some bacteria such as Listeria monocytogenes thrive at cold temperatures, and if present, will multiply in the refrigerator over time and could cause illness.)
I don't eat spoiled food, personally. So it almost seems the guideline is more along the lines of "yeah it shouldn't spoil in 3-4 days so try to eat it within that time frame", instead of "we have data showing food poisoning rates markedly increase on day 5+".

JoeRetire
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by JoeRetire » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:27 pm

Starfish wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:03 pm
5 days old chipoltle is nasty but it should not be dangerous.
And what can happen to you? At worst couple of days of diarrhea.
It might well be more than just nasty. This isn't a whole, uncut chicken we are talking about here. It's 5 day old cooked shredded chicken that likely spent at least a few hours at room temp in contact with other foods. It's basically party city for eager microorganisms.

If you aren't going to eat the leftovers in 1-2 days, freeze them or throw them away. Otherwise you are taking your chances - leftovers aren't worth that chance.

For some, a lot worse than a couple of days of diarrhea could happen. Some have compromised immune systems. I, for example, have a weakened immune system due to my cancer treatments. And I hate to waste food, but really...

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Re: Bone in my food

Post by StevieG72 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 pm

My brother ordered a burrito from Taco Bell drive thru.

He found pennies in his burrito! Not sure how that happened. He didn’t bother to call the Taco Bell.
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Re: Bone in my food

Post by Nate79 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:44 pm

StevieG72 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 pm
My brother ordered a burrito from Taco Bell drive thru.

He found pennies in his burrito! Not sure how that happened. He didn’t bother to call the Taco Bell.
I always knew Taco Bell had to pay people to eat their food! Just kidding, I kind of like Taco B food.

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